Thread 723312754

ASMONDGOYBROS... WE COMMITED GENOCIDE...

How many drugs do you need to feed a kid during their formative years for them to end up being the kinda person who gets upset about and posts shit like this to /v/?

>>723312754 (OP)
could you please explain what this thread is about?
i'm not a retarded, brainwashed amerigolem so i'm unfamiliar with the subject matter

>>723312754 (OP)
They should have acted like humans then. Lune and Sciel not having an existential crisis from learning they're painted beings gives me carte blanche to treat them as non-humans.

>>723312836
Cope asmoncuck your "they weren't real" cope was debunked.

I don't see why anyone would think otherwise
>The opinions of the painted people don't matter, now why aren't you feeling bad about painted Verso's suffering in Maelle's ending?

>>723312754 (OP)
Senile parent starts to live in your room and mess with your shit

>>723312754 (OP)
I feel so bad for the lead writer.

>>723312940
I literally have no idea what you're referring to
Genuinely were you raised on meth?

>>723312754 (OP)
The "painting people aren't real" thing was always the lowest IQ possible takeaway from this game.
They are real, and Verso ending is correct because their existence is doomed and empty anyway in the Maelle ending.

>>723312908
It's about the ending of Expedition 33 and the copium some people used for their choice at the end. The author had to come out and admit fault saying they suck as writers if people are using the "logic" (aka cope) used by a certain fanbase to justify their ending as the correct one.

>>723312754 (OP)
You can connect with the characters as humans and still believe ending the painting is the best way forward

>>723312941
Verso has the memories of real Verso. This gives him the sapience that the other painted people lack to realize their existence is lower than real humans.

>>723312941
E33 really shot itself in the foot with the painted people shit. The setup for the paintress was done really well and it just ends up meaning nothing by act 3

>>723312924
Anon "you've been created by a higher being" is what 95% people on Earth believe to one degree or another. They just get to meet their gods, like the people in Antique mythologies.

>>723312924
They would have an existential crisis, if they literally DIDN'T HAVE A GOD ON THEIR SIDE.
Sciel even says that for the first time in forever she has hope, because Maelle can just unfuck everything bad that ever happened.

>>723312836
I dunno. It's probably around the same as the ones who are big enough faggots to play this shitty game.

>>723312924
That was so retarded holy fuck.

>>723313136
The paintress shit is generic jrpg tripe. The story isn't interesting without the twist.

>>723312754 (OP)
>pic
Yeah no fucking shit, that's the entire point. It's a tragedy.
Retards tried to handwave the actual cost of the decisions taken by the game's characters during the story with autistic analogies about how it "doesn't count".

You’ve already failed as a writer if you have to rely on some shitty “moral conundrum” in the story in order to drive conversation. You remember the days of games when the story was “defeat the evil” and it didn’t have a bunch of college dropouts trying to make you feel bad for the villain?

Anyone who thinks those souless husks imitating people were human are the same retards who think that Computers/AI could ever have sentience.

The only 'real' people in that entire game was Maelle and her parents.

Leave it to the french to take any good world building concept or story and completely negate any care about it by act 3

>>723312754 (OP)
Here's a hard truth Maellesimps:

The Dessendres are basically capital G Gods. The life of even just one of them is worthless functionally infinite painties because they can birth entire universes filled with life.

Letting Maelle commit suicide is retarded even by your pragmatic standards of the many being worth more than the few.

>>723313068
>The "painting people aren't real" thing was always the lowest IQ possible takeaway from this game.
So that's no surprise that this was Asmongold's exact takeaway. He also thinks Renoir is 100% in the right, which is another brainlet take. Just because he has good intentions, it doesn't mean he's not making a mess.

>>723313123
>sapience that the other painted people lack
What are they lacking exactly?

>>723312754 (OP)
>this is what you should think about our gaem
nope.

>>723312754 (OP)
everyone is an overemotional sissybitch in this game how am i supposed to connect with anyone

I'm 32 and have never in my life watched a streamer play a singleplayer game and I believe OP should be gunned down in the streets... of rage.

>>723313149
It wasn't that
They knew their world is fake and that they were created as a coping mechanism for a grieving mother, yet they didn't really care
Granted, the entire world was a shitshow, doomed from the start and that's all they knew their entire lives, so there is a bit of comfort in knowing that it's all a lie + the fact that they can bring back their loved ones
I'm disappointed at their lack of agency during the end.

>>723313341
Huge failing on the game's part if the devs feel the need to try and police it's message after release.

>>723313321
They're not Gods, they're retarded Greek "gods".

My logic for picking Verso's ending is simple: Renoir is just going to destroy the painting anyway, after Alicia dies inside it. As such there's only one life that CAN actually be saved, Alicia's.

>>723313426
Nope. Greek gods cant generate universes.

>>723313149
Most people irl aren’t gnostics though, believing you’re created by a perfect, universal force of Good is a lot different than if you found out all of our world was just a reflection of what was drawn on a chalkboard by a schizophrenic 10 year old who can delete you at any time

>>723313281
>You remember the days of games when the story was “defeat the evil” and it didn’t have a bunch of college dropouts trying to make you feel bad for the villain?
Imagine being so proud of being a philistine that you're scared by subtext and praise low effort garbage.
>muh LOTR
You never read the legendarium.

>>723313281
>You remember the days of games when the story was “defeat the evil” and it didn’t have a bunch of college dropouts trying to make you feel bad for the villain?
No? JRPGs have had morally grey villains for like four decades

>we failed as writers
I agree. The plot twist sucked and undermined the whole starting premise of the game. Don't hire dumb shit writers next time ok?

>>723312754 (OP)
>Fantasy setting where humans encounter the gods
>Stern father deity trying to regulate behavior and mother deity that gave birth to humans locked in conflict
>The older god you deal with ultimately demands the mortals, their creations, die out to serve the needs of the higher plane
>The younger one who lived among them wants to fight for their continued existence, no matter how lesser it might be viewed by her divine peers
>Insert this into your average JRPG, everyone simps for the latter. Insert it into a French JRPG, suddenly everyone simps for the former.

>>723312754 (OP)
Guys are we reading the whole article and the full explanation from the Director or are we just getting mad at headlines designed to do exactly that

>>723313448
It could be a bit more complicated if you wanted to. At least you give alicia and all lumerians the chance to live a somewhat decent life before she dies along with everyone else
But the ending is clear as day. They can keep repeating that they wanted both to be legit, but only one ending is clearly good and they know it, otherwise they wouldn't make one somber as fuck while the other has pretty music and you have some of the most magnificent sunlight during the whole cutscene

>>723313580
No one cares either way. This game is shitpost fodder because OP ran it into the ground months ago.

>>723313281
>please stop trying to make me use my brain it hurts my head

>>723313482
You should read up on some creation myths. It's not that far off.

>>723313580
The beast...

>>723312754 (OP)
I don’t give a shit about these faggot as reddit characters

>>723313251
> muh tropes
not an argument , the tope can be executed well which E33 kind of did till act 3

>>723313251
>The story isn't interesting without the twist.
the twist just made it "relatable" by boiling the paintress and Maelle down to druggies looking for their next fix.

>>723313646
How is "let's force the crippled and traumatized kid into a life full of pain with a toxic family that resents her" a good ending in any way?
And don't give me that "she can just escape to a painting" bullshit, because that's exactly what she was trying to do to begin with.

>>723313448
Either Renoir or someone else in the future. It's a fucking painting lingering on a kid's soul, it's going to get damaged eventually
By the time act 3 starts everyone is already dead anyway

>>723312924
Aside from the fact that the game soon when through a small timeskip they had it filtered through the fact that one of their 'gods' was someone they'd long known. Sciel isn't the type to sweat such things too much to begin with, and Lune is more one to be interested in the specifics of it.

>>723312941
The hardcore Verso supporters needed to believe theirs was the golden ending, as the idea that there wasn't one was too much for them. They also believe that Maelle will now just easily shrug off the death of a world she spent a lifetime in as well as her disabilities off and live happily ever after as well.

>>723313983
>toxic

>>723313983
>How is "let's force the crippled and traumatized kid into a life full of pain with a toxic family that resents her" a good ending in any way?
Because the other choice is letting her commit suicide you weak trannoid nigger. She can paint a new world and go there btw

>>723314042
>They also believe that Maelle will now just easily shrug off the death of a world she spent a lifetime in as well as her disabilities off and live happily ever after as well.
That's what the cutscene showed lol

>>723313983
Mommy and daddy issues: the post

>>723313341
>>723313424
i apply this to everything
disregard anything any creator says after something has shipped
doesnt matter if its a book film game whatever
only the content of the work matters

>>723314139
And that's why it's bullshit, because I don't believe for a second those issues can be solved THIS easily.

>>723314182
That was pretty clearly portrayed in the content of the work too though

>>723312754 (OP)
Well I guess they failed as writer because not a single one of the painted humans feels human, and the entire world feels artificial as fuck even beyond the entire thing being literally an artpiece given life.

>>723314212
They were. The lasting grief will take time but she has healed from the major trauma and has a shot at life now.

>>723314232
Asmon, pls.

>>723312754 (OP)
>If you don't connect to its cast as Humans.
How am I supposed to see the French as human?

>>723314139
You mean the cutscene of her standing there sadly clutching her doll?

>>723314264
SHE'S A CRIPPLE FOR LIFE.
You can't shrug it off like that.

>>723313538
>Lumiere citizens know they are going to die at the hands of something they cant explain, its arbitrary and cold, despite that they sacrifice their hearts and lives and go into a hostile world to try to fix the situation, knowing they are going to be killed brutally, but if their sacrifice helps the next expedition its going to be worth it
>nah, thats not an interesting story, Light Yagami tricked a dumb, retarded child and caused the death of some faggot, woo hoo family drama!
Kinda funny ngl

>>723312924
TPBP. Sciel and Lune (plus Gustave) act like they're just executing a script out of some shitty jRPG the whole game. You'd expect there to be some change in them in Act 3 but nope they still act like the same NPCs.

>>723314351
Sorry, she can go into any other canvas and spend time there
The only canvas she wasn't allowed to go was Verso's, for obvious reasons (obvious for everyone but maellefags, from what I see)

/v/ersofags would tell someone in an iron lung to pull themselves up by the bootstraps

>>723314317
The cutscene of the characters waving goodbye, representing that she's moving on

>>723312754 (OP)
Most of the people I've seen play this (me included) picked the Verso ending because once the twist is revealed you start seeing only the Dessendres as "real" people. Maelle can just paint exact copies of the people in Lumiere in another painting so it doesn't even feel like a real loss. It sucks for the painted people because they do have real feelings and thoughts but it is what it is.

why is OP obsessed with Asmongold?

>>723314317
She's standing with a hopeful expression as she carries on the memories of Lumiere and the Canvas within herself, letting go and looking forwards to the future. Accepting grief in the adult way instead of coping in a fantasy.

>>723312754 (OP)
canvas niggers and maelle can rot, versochad all the way

>>723312754 (OP)
Why would anyone connect to paintings as humans?

The ending choice was easy for me. They were all in a fake made up world so I went with Verso ending. Billions must die.

>>723312754 (OP)
Gonna be honest, im not even sure what you are about.

>>723314495
It's not that she's moved on, it's that they've 'moved on'. To the afterlife or whatever. Because they are dead and she'll never see them again.

>>723314547
How does this look hopeful to you?

>>723314508
Rather important point that from the moment of the twist only the real people are relevant to the story besides Painted Verso. Painted Verso is the only one who behaves like a human after that point and his conclusion is Painted world needs to go.

>>723314374
Yes that's what makes it funny. The whole story just fucks its own underlying message. In both endings, the Lumiere citizens are reduced to either background actors to Maelle's family fantasy or reduced to a mere fantasy to make Dessendre family heal.

Female writer.

>>723314591
>How does this look hopeful to you?
Anon, she imagines the painties and they all warmly wave goodbye. She has accepted the losses and sees it for what it is.

>>723314493
So, she's not going to lose herself in a different painting because...?
She still has no reason to return to real life, so doesn't this defeat the whole point?

Reminder the Paris world is also not real and just a creation of "The writers" who exist in another world above the Paris world and a version of them exist in the Paris world just like how the Paintress existed in the painting world but also was a person in the paris world.

>>723314708
Those other paintings don't have her dead brother's ghost you STUPID nigger

>>723314660
Anon you are delusional. This is exactly the kind of thing the devs were talking about where some people cannot comprehend the idea that there was no golden ending.

>>723313409
Just because a world is created doesn't mean it's fake

>>723312754 (OP)
I thought the idea was that it doesn't matter whether you live an imaginary or real life, as long as someone doesn't have to suffer for it.

>>723314712
France isn't real period.

>>723314752
But that's not even her point. She flat out tells Verso she doesn't want to return to her life as a cripple. Hanging out with her dead brother was just a nice bonus.

Do you think their next game will be part of this same universe or will it be totally separate? I dont mean the same characters or anything I just mean part of the same lore or whatever.

>>723314572
Billions were already dead by the time act 2 ends. Only main cast and esquie/noco were still alive

>>723314835
>She flat out tells Verso she doesn't want to return to her life as a cripple.
That's cope. The whole issue is verso and her ending solidifes the point showing her center who new soulless puppet world around Verso playing the Piano. Aline and Alicia were both coping by hiding in a relic of Verso's life.

>>723312754 (OP)
I connected to the cast as humans (emotionally) but was able to recognize that they were not actually humans (intellectually). It's not hard. Would matter if they were real humans or insects at the end of the day - value is subjective and no living thing has inherent or objective universal value.

>>723312754 (OP)
>THE DREAM MUST END

Its kinda like Majoras Mask. You help all the people in the game with the side quests and whatnot but when Link leaves the world stops existing.

>>723314591
>aww look, she's smiling!

>>723314835
>just a nice bonus.
Bait used to be believable
It was always about him. NOT being a cripple was a bonus and a convenient excuse. She can do that anywhere else; what she can't do is to be with painted verso. Aline already knew that 100 years ago

>>723314891
No it's not cope. She literally says so.
You are the one coping, because you want your "Verso ending is a good one" theory to be true.

>>723315017
>She literally says so.
Yes. She's coping. She's there for Verso, she can escape her burns in any painting.

>>723315045
And why won't she lose herself in that painting then? She's still a cripple.
Drop the circular logic already.

>>723312836
It's called not actually parenting them or being part of their lives and just letting youtube and twitch raise them

>>723314859
Their first game out of the gate established infinite universe works so they've poisoned that narrative well immediately anon.

>>723312754 (OP)
so people who went with verso's ending are incapable of human emotions and actually psychopaths, glad the director is finally coming out and saying it.
Since the only way to justify that ending is to deem the entire world you've been in and all its inhabitants as a meaningless sacrifice for the sake of stripping an abused child of their last hopes of happiness and forcing them to endure until they inevitably break and commit sucide.

>>723315017
She says a lot of shit. She says she just needs a little more time and then she'll come out of the painting. Do you believe that too, retard?
She is not reliable or truthful, she's a grief-ridden addict. It is abundantly clear to anyone with even the slightest ability to understand subtext that her disfigurement is a distant second to the fact she fucked up and her brother died to save her.

>>723315123
>And why won't she lose herself in that painting then?
Because it doesn't have her brother. You're retarded, to the point of bad faith.

>>723314772
That's them trying to be "artists". One ending his hopeful and leave the family united and the other is a slow suicide where Renoir just goes and burns the painting eventually anyways.

>>723312754 (OP)
You can literally see Maelle "revive" Lune and Sciel after the gommage with her paintress powers. Painted people are not real people

>>723315183
So how the fuck am I supposed to argue with you when you deliberately ignore what Alicia tells us because it doesn't fit your theory?

>>723315258
Because he's an adult who understands subtext and lies and doesn't take every line of dialogue as gospel truth.

The writing is kind of retarded because they wanted to paint Alicia's ending as being "le bad" and Verso's ending as being "le good". If you really analyze them both, Verso's ending is absolute shit unless you treat Lune, Sciel, Gustav and the rest as disposable puppets without soul.

>>723315191
Them trying to be artists is creating the idea of a living, breathing world and how valuable it is vs. the world it was created from. You calling the Verso ending strictly good because it's hopeful is an interpretation, not a fact. Just as the interpretation that the other is purely bad because you figure everything there is just gonna die in a few years anyway.

Funny thing is I don't even think Maelle's ending is good either. There isn't one because both have strong negatives. But I can admit that, unlike some of you who think Verso's is all rainbow and sunshine.

>>723315307
Nah, it's that Alicia is a God who can create BILLIONS more Lunes and Sciels. Or she can commit suicide leaving Verso's sacrifice utterly wasted and the family [who are all gods who can make universes too, each full of billions of people equal to Sciel or Gustave] basically destroyed.

>>723315307
>soul
They are concepts, concepts that are recycled. Even Esquie says as much in his "Cousins" dialogue with Verso.

>>723315307
>disposable puppets without soul.
It's what they are. It's what the Dessendres have painted throughout, and I quote, "hundreds of canvas worlds". If you want to blame someone, blame Aline. She's the one who entered a kid's canvas full of gestrals and started replicating humans living normal lives for her own grieving
Kind of wasted potential that they never delved into the do an don'ts of painting. I'm sure painting sentient humans should be forbidden and unethical

>>723315373
>. Just as the interpretation that the other is purely bad because you figure everything there is just gonna die in a few years anyway.
It's not figuring. Renoir promised he would do it.
>But I can admit that, unlike some of you who think Verso's is all rainbow and sunshine.
Never called it that, it's just ten times better than a 16 year old killing herself over nothing.

>>723312754 (OP)
If they want to be real people so badly then they can stay dead after Renoir kills them.

>>723315373
Maelle's ending guarantees death
Verso's ending at least gives you a chance
On that principle alone, there's an objective good and bad ending

>>723313281
I don't even believe people actually think like this.

>>723315304
And yet he takes everything Verso's saying as a gospel. Even though he's an even bigger liar.

>>723315307
>unless you treat Lune, Sciel, Gustav and the rest as disposable puppets without soul.
This is what the hardcore Versofags have been doing up till the devs themselves said it wasn't their intent. Ironic because this would include Verso himself, except the cope then became "No he doesn't count because uhhh he has OG Verso's memories it's different ok!"

>>723315441
>I'm sure painting sentient humans should be forbidden and unethical
Renoir says stuff that hints at it. Remember when he apologizes to Painted Verso? Saying what was done in creating him was obscenely wrong?

>>723312754 (OP)
I will not connect with such boring and ugly characters.
The persona 4 remake needs to hurry it up.

>>723312754 (OP)
Then you shouldn't have subverted expectations after act 2 and dropped the ball with thre writing of anyone who isn't verso and maelle in act 3
yes as writers you failed hard.
game was good tho

>>723315513
Nothing Verso says actually ties into why his ending is best. His ending is best because there's no suicide and the godlike painters can make more worlds.

>>723315307
No silly retard. It's about embracing reality or delusion. Not my fault you choose to embrace delusion in real life and video games

>>723315558
>there's no suicide
Well not until Alicia kills herself at least

>>723315515
He says that because he has the real Verso's memories.

>>723315598
She won't though, she's just gonna have to paint new worlds to hide from pain inside of. She'll likely be a huge painting addict but she'll live a long life.

>>723315613
Yeah, exactly. Making somebody in the image of real humans is unethical. I'm sure doing a painted Verso is the PEAK crime of painting ethics but really any "humans" are likely considered forbidden too.

>>723315649
You have any proof of this?

>>723313281
I have a friend like you, who fantazises about the simplicity of the last days. He likes to run tabletop games, and he tries to recreate that there and guess what, its boring. All the table gets bored, becuase those stories where cool when everything was new, and those stories were introduction to concepts, and that was enough.
Its not enough now, we are not fucking kids anymore.
I'm all up for a real villain, that is a true motherfucker but the world, the setup. You cant pretend to have narratives for 10 yo from 4, 5 decades ago and expect that everybody will have fun.

>>723315723
Anon, Verso tells her she can make new paintings and visit those when she complains about her pain.

The suicide was because she refused to leave the canvas because she wants the ghost of Verso to stay around forever so she can pretend like she didn't get his ass KILLED.

>>723313281
lol???

>>723312754 (OP)
How come nobody ever posts the gameplay when they talk about this game?

>>723313281
I dunno anon, Jonah is a pretty famous story in the Bible, and it pervades most modern rhetoric on moral hazards, dilemmas and conundrums..

>>723315861
>press button to avoid all damage
There's nothing to talk about. The game has no strategy.

>>723315789
He says she can. So what's to stop Renoir from saying "Nah this isn't healthy, going home." and dragging her out? Also who's to say she wants to just make new paintings to go to? "It's ok you can just go to another painting lol" like telling a kid "It's ok that your parents died you can just get new parents."

>>723315940
>So what's to stop Renoir from saying "Nah this isn't healthy, going home."
Because the whole issue is trying to use facsimile Verso as a bandage for their mental trauma.
> Also who's to say she wants to just make new paintings to go to?
She wants to escape the pain right?

>>723315515
He also says it was some of Aline's finest work. I guess that means they paint other humans outside of this canvas too
Verso's case is even more fucked up too. One thing is to create oblivious people that think they're living in a real world. With painted verso, he fully knows this is all a lie, he knows he's a replica of a real person, and YET he also can't help but feel love for Aline too, apart from his painted family (renoir and alicia)
Being the guy must be pure hell, and no way to off yourself unless you erase the whole thing. No shit you're going to lie your way to the paintress

>>723316043
>I guess that means they paint other humans outside of this canvas too
No, it might be that painting a human is actually quite hard but she managed to make a completely convincing nearly perfect Verso.

>>723316003
>Because the whole issue is trying to use facsimile Verso as a bandage for their mental trauma.
That's one part. Another part is that he doesn't think it's healthy to spend too long in a painting.

>She wants to escape the pain right?
Anon she spent, what, 16 years or the equivalent of anyway living in that painting. Essentially as much time as she did outside of it. To her at this point that world is as much home as her place in Paris. You really think that has nothing to do with it?

I think having so much of the plot built on elevating Verso above the other painted people by saying “this one has a REAL soul and can’t be recreated” inherently kneecaps the ability to see the painted people as people

>>723316243
>Another part is that he doesn't think it's healthy to spend too long in a painting.
That's not an opinion. Your body slowly dies when you're in a painting.
>Anon she spent, what, 16 years or the equivalent of anyway living in that painting. Essentially as much time as she did outside of it.
Yes that's a tough thing to cope with but essentially she's not in her 30s in terms of life experience once she merged Maelle with Alicia. IT's a hard thing she was asked to do but it was the right thing and her refusal was childish.

"But one thing he's adamant about is that Sandfall Interactive intended for players to connect with both the world and its beloved characters as if they're real and human – despite being created with brush strokes.

"If you don't, it means we failed as writers, so yes, I hope you do," Broche explains."

Are you guys morons? You don't understand what is being said here?

>>723316348
>That's not an opinion. Your body slowly dies when you're in a painting.
You aren't gonna believe what is happening to us right now while we are sitting here wasting time on an image board...

>>723313281
There is unironically no reason to keep "people" like alive.

>>723312754 (OP)
>we failed as a writers
You sure did.

>>723316374
I understand that you commited genocide. Cope.

>>723316374
People don't read articles, they just agree or argue with the headline.

OP doesn't even both to post links anymore because of this, its just not necessary.

>>723316141
Not really. She painted Lumerians quite easily. No records say she fucked up or things went bad before the fracture. They can even reproduce themselves without issue

>>723312836
Just give them a ipad and make them play nothing but roblox

>>723316374
It's not my fault no one posted a link.

>>723316578
>She painted Lumerians quite easily.
Yes but she's her mother's daughter so...
> No records say she fucked up or things went bad before the fracture. They can even reproduce themselves without issue
So? I'm not seeing a point

>>723316374
It's easy to imagine. Renoir himself doesn't dismiss paitned people as fake, but a father's gotta do what he's gotta do

>>723316625
I'm talking strictly Aline. Alicia could do it too and she had a few weeks of experience being a paintress?
The point is that it's not fucking hard to paint functional people

>>723316541
I have virtually no issues with committing a genocide. I think Hitler was more or less good, unironically.

Which doesn't mean Broche isn't saying "we needed you to connect to the characters as if they were real, so that the final choice is more difficult".

>>723316730
>Alicia could do it too and she had a few weeks of experience being a paintress?
Yes but she's her mother's daughter AND was even wielding grief and desperation in the act of painting them, just as Mom did.
>The point is that it's not fucking hard to paint functional people
Prove it. So far we only have one woman and her direct blood relation do it. Could be exceedingly hard.

>>723316731
That is the exact same as what the headline says. You are coping.

>>723315861
>posting about gameplay instead of shitty articles and twitter bait
>on /v/
you lost from your way on reddit?

>>723315165
>endulging in escapism to the point of rejecting reality is *good* actually

>>723316947
Yeah the headline is saying that they wanted you to connect to its cast as humans, it is saying the same thing, just in the words of the guy who wrote the article.
What's the issue, what am i coping about, retard?

>>723315307
>treat Lune, Sciel, Gustav and the rest as disposable puppets without soul.
Which is what they are? Even Maelle does this in her own ending

>>723312836
you browse 4chanm simple as

>>723317139
Well at least you own being a genocidal retard unlike Amonroach. It is correct to see this as Neo choosing to doom everyone for Trinity than pretending everyone is fake.

>>723317064
it is, that's why you watch porn.
the idea that escapism is bad is because society's leaders need slaves to do their menial jobs so they can't afford people to be happy and content.
the closest you'll get to that is the leftist movement in the USA filled with nepobabies with too much time on their hand

>>723312754 (OP)
Backstabbing suicidal motherfucker. Great character but people jack him off way too much. Never seen a character get away with so much even with the fucking audience

>>723317258
No it doesn't mean it's genocide. "we want you to emotionally connect to them as human" =/= "they are human". I just don't mind genocide, that does not mean it is genocide.
Genocide is specifically defined as destruction of humans, painted beings are not human, human is a biological category. You can emotionally connect to characters as if they were human, even thought the characters aren't real, and by that i mean no characters are real, Clea isn't real either. That is what Broche is saying, you're not supposed to see the characters as empty husks. He's not saying painted beings in-universe are true humans.

stopped playing the game after chapter 2.
when I found out none of the people were "real", I lost all interest.

>>723314508
>. Maelle can just paint exact copies of the people in Lumiere in another painting

Not without their chroma which dissipates over time. Though she could probably cook up some cruder imitations on her own.

>>723317639
>No it doesn't mean it's genocide. "we want you to emotionally connect to them as human" =/= "they are human".
It does, that's why I said you are coping lol. Why would you connect to something as human when they are not? Are you that stupid?

>>723316374
I doesn't matter how "real" they are portrayed. In the end they aren't.
Some people would accuse openAI of genocide if they pulled the plug on chatGPT. It's not human. End of story.

>>723315403
>>723315441
>>723317154

Verso's ghost says the painted beings have souls.

>>723318215
Classic genocidal retard logic. My enemies aren't human therefore not genocide LOL.

>>723312754 (OP)
All Maelle had to do was let Verso die and her ending would be definitively good. Her being so childish that she can't even do that makes Verso and Renoir right in the end.

>>723312924
LUNE AND SCIEL ARE FAILED COPIES CREATED BY A SHITTY PAINTRESS, THEY'RE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE. THE PEOPLE """ALIVE""" IN MAELLE'S ENDING ARE JUST COPIES, NOT ACTUALLY THEM SINCE MAELLE DID NOT CAPTURE THEIR CHROMA WHEN THEY GOMMAGED (GUSTAVE DID NOT EVEN GOMMAGE, HIS CHROMA IS GONE)

>>723318101
Without their chroma she can't bring back the same ones but she could paint brand new exact copies, pretty sure it's what she does with Gustave in her ending because he didn't gommage when Renoir killed him.

>>723318209
For the same reason you connect to fictional characters in an anime or a video game you fucking retard. If writers fails to make you connect to their characters, then the writer failed failed as writers, if Kishimoto didn't make you connect with Naruto he failed.
I'm saying i don't mind genocide, what am i coping about you fucking monkey.

>>723318312
Verso's ghost is confused and doesn't know what he's talking about.
They don't have souls.

>>723318379
>brand new exact copies
But they arey are LITERALLY not the people Maelle loved. She's creating golems resembling them.

>>723318374
/thread

>>723318379
But once she becomes the sole Paintress in the canvas she has access to all the chroma.
The only reason she couldn't bring Gustave back previoisly was because Renoir was sitting on it. She says so herself.

>>723318312
8 year olds say a lot of stupid shit. Do you trust everything they say?

>>723318335
Unfortunately for you, genocide has a definition, and that definition only includes humans.
So if we were to find aliens on some planet, then nuked their planet and killed them all, it wouldn't classify as genocide, because they are not defined as humans.

>>723312924
To be fair, some people might not have caught how bizarre that was simply because Lune and Sciel are cardboard cutout characters in the first place. Verso isn't much better

I really hope the writers are capable of self-criticism and don't take the glazing too seriously because the actual writing in this game beyond a couple of points was shit

>>723318374
>>723318506
headcanon
>b-but it's common sense that there's no transcendence of consciousness
it's magic

>>723318789
It's YOUR headcanon that Maelle (a dogshit paintress with no skill) can recreate everyone and make them exactly the same as they were.

>>723318506
Yeah thats the point.

>>723318853
They appear to be as they were and nothing states that they are not. Occam's Razor, lil bro.

versofags never ever beating the low iq accusations

>>723312754 (OP)
I want to connect to Maelle as a human male, if you catch my drift.

>>723318934
>occam's razor
Lumiere is in ruins except for the opera house and Maelle is already going crazy. One of two scenarios are possible.
>1 - Very little time has passed. Maelle fixed the opera house as a top priority and is already going crazy. Lumiere is doomed.
>2 - Significant time has passed. Maelle hasn't bothered fixing anything but the opera house. Now she's going crazy. Lumiere is doomed.
Any other possibilities would be you suggesting unnecessary complexities not shown to us by the game. Going strictly off of occam's razor, Maelle's ending is not a happy one for lumiere. Sorry.

>>723318209
>Why would you connect to something as human when they are not?
This man woke up and decided to challenge the entire concept behind fiction

>>723317639
>>723319721
Huge cope. You're being disingenuous because you know for a fact the frog was saying "yes the lumierens were meant to be thought of as humans within the context of the fictional universe the game takes place in." You may have the last word to seethe about having been wrong all this time.

If I found out tomorrow that I was created by a god like magical being I would still consider myself real and not be willing to forfeit my existence, so I can extend the principle to the people in the painted universe.

>>723312836
the ipad kids are growing up

>>723319623
>Lumiere is in ruins except for the opera house and Maelle is already going crazy.
Once again you're offering interpretations instead of facts.
>Maelle's ending is not a happy one for lumiere
no one said it was

>>723319974
Nope, her mental state is explicit.

>>723313068
Ya I don't get this take, I mean the entire opening with Gustave at the beach shows how much the painted people actually care about eachother. Even Renoir admits to knowing about their grief before the final fight.

The writers are fighting an uphill battle though, asking 80IQ individuals to imagine fake people in a fake setting still have feelings is the equivalent of asking them the "if you didn't have breakfast how would you feel?" question.

>>723319863
I mean you can keep saying cope, but it won't change the reality that connect as humans doesn't imply in-universe categorization as human. You were meant to connect to Thanos as human as well. That's how fictional characters work.
You're just an idiot.

>>723318397
>what am i coping about
Pretending that Renoir didn't commit that.

>>723320331
>You were meant to connect to Thanos as human as well.
Thanos is not a human you fucking idiot that's an alien.

>>723320805
Didn't commit what? Genocide? No he didn't, but even if he did, it would be based.

>>723318629
>only includes humans
Lumerians are human. Genocidal retards pretend they don't commit genocide by saying their enemies aren't human, which is what you are doing right now. Cope.

>>723320869
Bait well taken, hence why i called you an idiot.
Yes you are indeed meant to connect to aliens as humans very often in fiction. Superman for example is an alien too.

>>723320917
>No he didn't
You are coping lol.

>>723312754 (OP)
Everyone failed at completely exploiting the media in it's full, because we spent all money in graphics.
Dorf is the closest we will ever get of making a game that has a story that interact with the player as it should in all games.

>>723321001
I'm not even the same person lol.
>Superman
Lex is right though. Superkek was sent to fucking kill us all and impregnate our women.

>>723320980
Nope. Like the director said:
"Sandfall Interactive intended for players to connect with both the world and its beloved characters as if they're real and human – despite being created with brush strokes."
Humans are not created with brush strokes. Humans are biological organisms. They're fictional characters given AI.

>>723319623
Or the most obvious answer is that the art designers were simply reusing assets and couldn't be bothered to recreate rebuilt Lumiere from scratch just for a 5 second clip, because it's costly and time consuming.
In the same way, Verso is just wearing Renoir's outfit.

>>723321047
Why would i be coping lmao? Are you mentally ill?

>>723321140
Yeah but an idiot nonetheless.
I agree though, superman should be deported. We don't like illegal aliens in here, honestly we don't like aliens period.

>>723312924
Anon... you are a bot, living in a simulation.

>>723321181
>artists were meticulous with visual clues throughout the game
>but the simplest explanation for how they presented one of the two most important cutscenes in the game? they were low on cash and said fuck it.
If they didn't want us to consider that Lumiere was still destroyed, they wouldn't have started the cut scene with three lingering shots emphasizing its state. Worrying levels of cope, I'm afraid. I'll leave you to it.

>>723321230
>Why would i be coping lmao?
Because you are pretending genocide isn't genocide lol which is exactly what the author had to tell you that you are wrong because you are too stupid to realize otherwise. Even when you are told straight to your face you still cope about it.

>>723313068
>They are real, and Verso ending is correct because their existence is doomed and empty anyway in the Maelle ending.
This sort of nihilist argument is equally silly. The real world is essentially doomed to end at some point, does that make our lives worthless? If not, what if we discovered the end was coming in 200 years, would that give us the right to do what we wanted and end the lives of others?

By saying the painting being doomed justifies prematurely ending the lives of its inhabitants who may have otherwise lived full and happy lives for several generations, you're essentially arguing that they do not have any inherent individual rights, only collective ones that are contingent upon the ultimate fate of the painting. I would argue that them being complex sentient beings is reason alone that they deserve rights and individual moral consideration.

I agree that Verso's ending is the better one in the sense of making the best of a shitty situation. The painted people are already dead, so in the end it's Verso (who wants to die), Esquie & Monoco (who want whatever Verso wants), Lune, Sciel (who doesn't give a fuck) and the Gestrals (who are retarded) vs the Dessendres. You're really only left with Lune who values her life, so at that point, yeah, fuck the painting and save whoever you can. But there is no real good ending, because Aline is never held accountable for creating living humans and playing God with them, and Renoir is never held accountable for mass murdering them. Instead the story glosses over these moral atrocities in favor of celebrating the Dessendres finally coming to an understanding with one another.

>>723321418
No, genocide is genocide, but killing painted beings isn't genocide, why? It's obvious lol, because they are not humans. I would be fine if the definition was changed to include all conscious beings, then it would fit the categorization of genocide. And i would be very much for it.

>>723321154
>Humans are not created with brush strokes
There's evidence of the universe being a simulation of sorts lmao. Some shit about something coming out pixelated when zoomed in during a study or something like that.

>>723321567
>Instead the story glosses over these moral atrocities in favor of celebrating the Dessendres finally coming to an understanding with one another.
Wow it's as if these lesser beings have no business mattering.

>The real world is essentially doomed to end at some point, does that make our lives worthless?
You don't know that, it's just a theory. Ultimately if nothing comes of our lives, then yeah ultimately it was worthless. But that's a worthless argument, because canvas was not worthless, it built up Alicia and made her come out of her shell.

>>723321154
>Humans are biological organisms. They're fictional characters given AI.
There's a lot of room between those two concepts, that they're not humans because they're artificial, and that their intelligence is less sophisticated than biological humans. What evidence in game suggests their sapience isn't on the level of biological humans?

>>723321647
>genocide is genocide
Yeah which is what Renoir commited. Cope.
>because they are not humans
They are accordinf to the author.

>Director admits that they failed as writers due to the popular interpretation misaligning with their intention
Can we stop pretending this game has great writing now? Most of the characters feel like narrative tools rather than people

>>723321746
>There's evidence of the universe being a simulation of sorts lmao.
Wow you're dumb. Some people really shouldn't have been given access to internet.

>>723321567
>in favor of celebrating the Dessendres finally coming to an understanding with one another.
Which is also bullshit, because we never see them learning anything, having any sort of epithany, we just see Alicia getting forcibly booted out of the canvas against her will and we are supposed to pretend that from now on, they are a loving, happy family, even though we never saw then having any character development beforehand.

>>723312754 (OP)
The graphics failed too, the cast was too thin, butts too small.

>>723321567
I don't think it glosses over them. We see Alicia's painted friends last, not her family. We're meant to feel the tragedy of their loss. The only characters glossing over the atrocity are the other dessendres, who never cared about them.

>>723321894
Barring I guess Lune they felt like people to me.
Still agreed with Renoir in what needed to be done.

>>723321894
Well, the game is about Painters, not Writers. The visuals are good, no?

>>723321894
Popular interpretation was because those players were incapable of higher thought processes.

>>723321898
>epithany
kek.

Anyways, we're not meant to see the development because we're not meant to be certain that everything is going to work out. The family have very few interactions. Alicia talks with Renoir two times, and then we see them at a funeral. All we know is that now that the women are out and the canvas is gone, they CAN heal. We're not told they WILL. We're not meant to see it happen. We don't see them before or after the unbelievable tragedy they've experienced.

>>723321824
No, their intelligence can be more sophisticated. It simply doesn't matter, because they don't fit the definition of a human.

>What evidence in game suggests their sapience isn't on the level of biological humans?
I would have this conversation if it mattered, it just doesn't. We're talking about genocide, and genocide has a technical understanding. If we were to kill all the dolphins, that would be categorized as genocide.

>>723321827
>Yeah which is what Renoir commited
If he did then that's good.

>They are accordinf to the author.
You are not the author, and you do not get to speak for him.

>>723321965
It's not like alicia did.
The moment she takes over in act three she's laser focused on verso and everyone else becomes future props for her larp.
She cared so little the only thing she rebuilt was the fucking opera house and obviously she didn't forget to remove verso's scar so she could pretend he's the real deal (sorry gustave, you keep your mechanical arm)

>>723321897
Pretty sure Silas Beane has more say in this matter than random indian Asmonroach fan on 4chan defending genocide.

>>723321894
>painted people aren't real
>the popular interpretation
Man you fags are delusional. You really believe the majority of players didn't think of them as people?

>>723322130
What a weird, dishonest cope. No one is saying "lumierens are people because they're made of flesh!" People are arguing for their personhood based off of the fact that they have human minds. Oh well, keep seething I guess

>>723322130
>>723321824
If we were to kill all the dolphins, that would not be categorized as genocide. *

>>723322162
>You really believe the majority of players didn't think of them as people?
Consider the Versofags in this thread and the Verso ending choosers.

>>723322130
>If he did then that's good.
That's irrelevant to the point you are making.
>You are not the author
Sadly there's an article that goes over this which is posted in the OP lol. Renoir commited genocide.

>>723322094
People genuinely don't understand that the ending is meant to be somber.
It's a family, missing a son, mourning in front of his grave with the slight hope it may all turn ok.
Fucking Alicia is hugging esquie, the thing you hug when you are feeling sad.

>>723322145
I agree with you, but unlike the others she had some care for the lumierens (selfish as it was) which allowed us a window to see them one last time as well.

>>723322241
You can think of them as people.
You can still prioritize Maelle and Verso over them.

>>723322241
You're speaking to one. I'm a total versofag and I was never in doubt that the lumierens were people, regardless of who created them. Their loss is meant to be a tragedy, nothing was as obvious as that.

>>723322317
She cared about them as much as Renoir or Aline did, if Renoir told her she could keep verso as long as she deleted everyone else you can be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN she would have deleted them immediately because she's RUTHLESS.

>>723322232
>"lumierens are people because they're made of flesh!"
Actually i was doing that from the very beginning, i was even posting our biological composition when this conversations were happening when the game came out.

>People are arguing for their personhood based off of the fact that they have human minds
What the fuck is a human mind, if there are aliens that are as conscious as we are that means they have a human mind?
No of course. Human is a biological category, it's not defined in abstract terms.

>Oh well, keep seething I guess
I am really not the one who is coping. You literally started your post with "What a weird, dishonest cope".
Have some self-awareness, man.

>>723322345
Why would you prioritize the convenience of two people, one of which who just wants to die, over the lives of thousands if not tens of thousands of people if you consider them all real?

>>723322272
Blows my mind. The entire game is filled with tragedy after tragedy and maellefags still cope with "everyone happy now :)" while versofags cope with "they didnt matter anyways :)" like it's their first time engaging with a piece of media with no happy ending and they simply cannot handle that.

>>723312754 (OP)
You're not actually killing the painted people, you're letting Verso's soul stop painting. That the painted world ends is just a side effect.

>>723322482
>over the lives of thousands if not tens of thousands of people
Already dead, Alicia is a shitty artist and you can't even begin to convince me the ending where everyone is a copypasted npc is good.

>>723322465
>if there are fucking aliens
You know that no one is talking about this. Currently, we use human and person interchangeably with "sapient life more or less on the level with a human" because there are no other lifeforms that we know of on that level and no clarification is merited. Man the writers clarifying their intentions really mindbroke you people.

>>723322498
>like it's their first time engaging with a piece of media with no happy ending and they simply cannot handle that
Considering the average intelligence of "people" these days, do you really not expect that.

>>723322250
>Sadly there's an article that goes over this which is posted in the OP lol.
In which the author says that the beings who were created with brush strokes were not meant to be perceived as empty husks. And like all good fictional characters, you were meant to relate to them as humans.
That is indeed what he said. But i understand now that you're projecting, and that's why you keep saying cope. So, well, keep coping.

>>723322574
That's a convenient cope

>>723322482
nta but because those people aren't coming back. It's not that a painter CAN'T bring them back, it's just that Alicia won't (or can't). We see it in her ending. The city is still fucked, there's a bunch of unfinished people standing in an unmoving line/sitting unmoving in their chairs, and there's maelle and her close friends watching verso play piano forever. That's what we're given. The lumierens were always meant to be tragic figures in this story.

>>723312754 (OP)
i fought as Maelle and killed Verson because he's a fucking faggot and no other reason

>>723322482
They all die anyway when Maelle dies irl or when Verso's soul fragment gives up on painting eventually. It's tragic either way but you can't really save them, painted Alicia was the only one who wanted to try a compromise and Verso fucked that up.

>Verso admits he let Gustave die on purpose
>Maelle is sad and gets over it in 2 minutes
lol

>>723322810
>painted Alicia was the only one who wanted to try a compromise and Verso fucked that up.
Painted Alicia trusted fucking Alicia to be different from her father and her sister.
When she's just the worst traits of her mother and her father amplified by the retardation of a 16 year old.

>>723322661
>You know that no one is talking about this. Currently, we use human and person interchangeably with "sapient life more or less on the level with a human" because there are no other lifeforms
You're absolutely right, that is how we see it in effect. And that's why i talk the way i do. I completely reject that.
Human is a biological category, human is a biological organisms. It is not about sapience per se.

>Man the writers clarifying their intentions really mindbroke you people.
I from the very get-go saw it exactly how they clarified it.
You guys are just really behind on the conversation.

>>723322810
>muh compromise
Was never, EVER going to happen. Verso's goals and the preservation of the canvas were always completely, unequivocally at odds. The only way for the world to stay was for the paintress to stay, a non starter for him. If she goes, Renoir does the giga gommage, 100% of the time.

>>723312754 (OP)
The RPG rule is that if you can fight god you earn your right to exist.
That's all I cared about when choosing the Maelle ending.

>>723313341
>>723313424
He's literally saying the opposite, retards, "we failed as writers", they are blaming themselves

>>723322924
>You're absolutely right, that is how we see it in effect. And that's why i talk the way i do.
Then you're not arguing against what people are actually saying, you're splitting hairs over how they're saying it. You know that Broche said, when we were meant to connect with the characters as human, that he meant it in the popular way. You're just being a pedantic faggot and proving nothing. I'm embarrassed I've replied this many times, you got the better of me. Here's one more.

I don't get why everyone cares about lune and sciel right up until the ending. If it was after the painted people reveal, I'd get it, but they still follow through with their stories until the end. They empathise with lune's story about her parents and want her to live and see the real world like she dreamed of and they have an emotional reaction to sciel's story about her child and almost drowning. But then the final choice comes and it's like lol who cares bro it's like the sims lmao right click send to recycle bin.

>>723323193
That's really dishonest and in bad faith to me.
I am arguing from my own position, how i see it, how i always saw it.
Here is one of my posts, dating back to may
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/thread/709225979/#709232385

"It’s clear that “people” means humans, and they’re not human because they don’t meet the biological definition of human. So whatever they are? Well they are not different from gestrals and stuff, if they didn’t look human no one would call them humans
Few things here, I don’t care about the painted beings at this point, never cared about gestrals, that’s just how I feel, i went from being fascinated about the canvas world, and truly being emotionally hit by Gustave’s death to wanting to leave to reality and see what is going on there, and being apathetic towards Guatave
You’re free to think it’s wrong of me, but my experience is what it is. I don’t really care about rooting for some alien race for anything, i really didn’t like the movie avatar
I went into the final mission hoping to get some info about this writer vs painter thing
I just wanted some hints on what is *actually* going, in the world that i am now more interested in.
However I didn’t expect the game to take the position that it’s correct to move on from the canvas, so i like and respect the devs for that. As modern western view is that what truly matters effectively is the amalgamation of personality traits. And painted beings certainly have those, Gustave is a splendid being for example. But i don’t follow this school of thought. I am not some wondering soul in a wast universe, i am flesh and bones, i am a continuation of my lineage and part of human race. I am not going to care about foreign beings nearly as much. "

I have no obligation to argue for others.

>>723322810
>They all die anyway when Maelle dies irl or when Verso's soul fragment gives up on painting eventually. It's tragic either way but you can't really save them
Why on earth does this point get repeated so much? So the life of a 10 year old little kid who may have lived a happy life to the age of 85 doesn't matter because the world is going to end at some unknown point in the distant future? Now imagine a whole civilization including hundreds or thousands of these kids and their families. When did the fact that we can't save literally everyone and have the world continue on forever mean that nobody's life has any value and we should all just die now?

>>723312836
Divorced parents probably

>>723314042
>They also believe that Maelle will now just easily shrug off the death of a world she spent a lifetime in

The ending is literally her mourning with her parents LMAO. Way to expose yourself dumb nigger

>>723312754 (OP)
I thought they purposely made the painted characters shallow since they're not real. cant believe they were just bad at writing

>>723324217
Gustave was shallow?
No one cares about the chicks, they're just fanservice, like women in real life.

>>723312754 (OP)
>asmon
He literally talks more about Metaphor still than he does about this game

>>723313123
>their existence is lower than real humans.
Except it isn't. If God commanded you to lay down and die and your only response would be to comply then you are lower than the painted people.

>>723324360
didnt feel much toward gustave since I knew he was probably going to die based on his ui. figured he'd get the albert slambert treatment since I heard the devs liked legend of dragoon and it happened.

>>723324645
>If God commanded you to lay down and die
He literally told a father to kill his kid, and the father was complying, then God said yeah ok i see you comply so you don't need to do it, anyway i gotta go kill some other people.

And now that religion runs the world. Abraham religion that is.
Being a dumbfuck doesn't increase your chances of a good life, anon.

>>723324054
The ending is her being sad about the broken body she lives in and the friends she lost.

>>723324797
What retarded point do you think you just made?
I'm asking if you would fight, or perish like a dog?

>>723322686
>were not meant to be perceived as empty husks
He said they were meant to be seen as humans.

>>723324969
I called you a retard.
Fight my ass.

The Dessendres aren't real people either. They are fictional characters in a video game, created by Writers.

>>723325080
He said you were meant to relate to them as humans.

>>723322860
Because she can bring them all back. Like how Goku gives 0 shits if the Planet gets BTFO when he can just bring it back with Dragon Balls.

>>723325152
>you were meant to relate to them as what they are
I don't see the problem.

>>723312754 (OP)
Maellefags look at the Mona Lisa and think it's a real perosn. LMAO
RETARDS

Expedition 33 is a Greek tragedy about a bunch unfortunate people caught up in the petty familial squabbles of their gods.

>>723325359
That includes gestrals and grandis too right? Because he didn't say lumierians, he said to characters you were supposed to relate to as humans, which includes Monoco, Golgra and etc

>>723313409
If it turns out our universe is a simulation running on some 7-Dimensional server, would it make any practical difference to you?

>>723312941
Reminder that a solid 20% of players believe that Maelle's ending is a good one.

Isn't it crazy that people are still mad about this game? I'm not talking about people who are just still talking about the game. I'm not talking about people who are mad because they hate the game for some reason. Isn't it crazy, that after months and months of making the same posts arguing the same points, there are people with rage equivalent to what they felt months ago, STILL saying "actually they were just ai" and "actually it was genocide" and they're STILL mad at you for disagreeing? I think that's pretty crazy.

>>723326307
how nu r u?
Stormcloak vs Imperial threads still hit bump limit.

Best part of the game is watching Maelle walk from the back

>>723326472
I always saw those arguments being made kind of dispassionately, by people who feel more smug and superior than emotionally invested. Plus TES lore is weird as fuck and every thread ends up being a deep dive into obscure aspects of it. These threads really feel like something else.

>>723326307
A good argument is timeless

>>723326741
I know I can't be sure since the game's not even a year old, but I hope to see these same faggots making the same bitter arguments years from now, up there with FFT, Skyrim, and portal threads.

The conflict of this game goes through the conflict that is happening between the right(Christianity) vs the left(enlightenment)
Verso being the right and Maelle the left. It's about value hierarchy, a right winger caring more about his close proximity/family and the left winger caring more about strangers
Hence why it's like this.

>>723312924
>They should have acted like humans then
The "grieving" widow has sex with a man she barely met and the barefoot slut does too. They act like real women, that's for sure.

>>723326919
come on, Pierre died years ago

>>723312754 (OP)
Genocide is good,chud

>>723326893
Except from the player perspective the Lumierans are family and the Painters are strangers who killed your family.

>>723327172
Yeah but you're asked to choose between a family and a world full of randoms

>>723327172
There wasn't a self-insert character. You're describing how Alicia may have felt, not the player. We played arguably more as Verso than Alicia.

>>723312754 (OP)
the people crying about genocide dont have a clue what real genocide is
you havent seen shit, nigga

>>723314547
She should have killed herself in the Verso ending,but those baguettes didn't have the balls to do it

>>723312754 (OP)
Versosissies btfo.
Kneel to your god.

Verso is clearly Broche's favorite character eh

>>723327423
Man that screenshot changed everything, what a great thread

>>723326969
She never shuts the fuck up about him

>>723313580
What do you fucking think we're doing, tranny? We don't give a shit about the article, all we want is to be angry.

Why does everyone assume the Maelle ending is her staying inside the painting until she dies? Her parents have been in the Painting for 66+years and as Clea says, their parents aren't in any real danger as they've been in other paintings for far longer. Maelle has plenty of time to get her whole brocon business out of her system and I choose to believe she'll leave on her own accord. That or her parents and Clea, all three who are far superior Painters, are going back in actually healthy this time and rip her out.

>>723323105
>The only way for the world to stay was for the paintress to stay
That's wrong though, she wasn't the one painting it, the fragment of real Verso was.

>>723327252
We were together with the Canvas people way more than the Painters.

>>723327847
It's spelled out for you that she's hopelessly adddicted and was lying to Renoir about ever leaving.

>>723327864
I didn't mean conceptually, I meant in practice. The situation the canvas found itself in was: Renoir and Aline are struggling for control, and when one wins the other is going to become dominant. If they'd kicked Renoir out instead, Aline would not have been able to be stopped. She was a better painter and would've had lumierens on her side.

>It's okay when Maelle brainwashes people and takes their free will
How is that different from what Verso did?

>>723312940
I know saying this isn't going to change anything, but them actually not being real isn't as important as the question of what makes them different from you if they are still considerably similar and possibly have souls.

>>723327847
>Why does everyone assume the Maelle ending is her staying inside the painting until she dies?
Because she says she's going to do that.

>>723326893
But Maelle also only cares about what she thinks are her closest people.

>>723328012
Nta but: we don't stop existing if a small child stops painting.

>>723312940
>act like he hates asmondgold
>knows every single opinion of his
The only one here hanging on that faggots every word is you, retard.

>>723327980
Verso was ok fighting real Renoir and helping Maelle up until he realized she was lying. If he just wanted the canvas destroyed he would have sided with Renoir.

>>723313409
Nothing about canvas worlds are 'fake'. The canvases are simply pocket dimensions. Finding out your universe is tiny compared to a 'real universe' wouldnt make you suddenly not care about your universe.

>>723313329
Anon Asmon was all about self-preservation at the cost of everything else. His ideology is peak American individualism despite advocating for Bernie's communism solutions.
> US should bomb or nuke any country that threaten it because fuck them
> If someone threaten you, you are legally allowed to just fucking kill them

>>723328339
>If someone threaten you, you are legally allowed to just fucking kill them
this one is based

>>723328094
But that's not what i was saying, i am saying Verso's ending is "choose family ending" and Maelle's ending is "choose the world ending", i'm not saying they themselves are the right and the left.
And no, Maelle at that point is Alicia, and Alicia lived with her family her entire non-canvas life, and we don't even know how time passing feels in the canvas, if anything the reason why she resists Renoir so much is because she wants to stay with Verso, again family, she literally says she just wanted to live a lifetime that was stolen from them, and calls him a brother.

>>723328293
I agree. He didn't want the canvas destroyed, he wanted his mom out.

>>723322482
What a fucking retarded question from an utilitarianist. Would you sacrifice your mother to save 100 random bozos?

Why do these threads never discuss the gameplay?

>>723312754 (OP)
MAELLE WINS
>MAELLE WINS
MAELLE WINS
>MAELLE WINS
MAELLE WINS
>MAELLE WINS
MAELLE WINS

>>723329010
Story is more interesting, as in every jrpg.

>>723328945
You're not Verso retard

>>723329164
Sadly, the game puts you in place of Maelle's older brother figure, twice.

>>723328696
Maelle spent the same amount of time in both world, she is choosing her family and friends that she actually likes (Gustave, Lune, Sciel and she's pretending Verso is the real Verso, the only real family member she really liked). She is not doing this for the strangers in that world, she's doing it for this handful of people which is why the ending is her with them and everyone else is their own loved ones and a bunch of copypasted npcs.

I did connect with them as human beings. But as Renoir said, it doesn't matter.

>>723329164
Absolutely not.
I prefer Maelle ending not because I give a fuck about the painted. To me they are of the same tier as the painters, characters in a video games, while I am one dimension above them.
I like that ending purely because I want to fuck Verso over. He is a lying piece of shit. Play the piano faggot.

>>723329010
It's pretty shallow even if it's serviceable, all it boils down to is pressing a button at the right time or finding an OP setup (which isn't hard to do) so you don't need to even do that

>>723312754 (OP)
I'm at the point where I've decided to never play this game just because I'm sick of looking at this faggot's ugly face.

>>723329346
this... is our GOTY candidate?

>>723329475
Because it's fun.

>>723322482
>one of which who just wants to die
This is the biggest brainlet filter in the game. Verso does not want to die, he wants to not be a standin for the dead man he was created in the image of, he wants to not be the motivation for a slow suicide for his mother and, later, for alicia. The only way he sees of avoiding those fats do result in his death, but that doesn't mean death is his primary goal. He fought for all of act 3 to help Alicia kick Renoir out of the canvas, instead of just letting Renoir (who was in the process of killing him) kill him, and only decided to pursue a route that would end in his death when he realized Alicia was gonna do the same shit Aline did. Buncha retards in this place.

>>723329574
They hate verso because he kills their waifu lune.

>>723329574
>ok he wants to die BUT he has reasons for that
Doesn't change the point

>>723329240
>the only real family member she really liked
We don't know much about the dynamics of the family, we only see their relationships in action in the wake of unthinkable tragedy. We do know Renoir loved and endlessly encouraged Alicia.

>>723329240
>Maelle spent the same amount of time in both world
We don't know how time passes in the canvas, how does it feel in the canvas, when the crew reaches the monolith Lune says that they still have a "little time left", which means during the game we played a lot of the "year" has already passed.

>>723329240
>the only real family member she really liked)
Alicia likes her family, she's just a stupid teenager.
She likes her dad, her brother, her sister even if she's envious of her and she wanted to show her mother she was good at writing.

>>723329671
>wants to die
>doesn't die when renoir says "hold still while I kill you"
You're a retard. He's simply WILLING to die for what he believes in.

>>723328189
What are we but a dream.

>>723329836
As I said, it doesn't change the point
When Maelle defeats him, he begs her to just let him die even though he has nothing to gain from it at that point

>>723313123
>Verso has the memories of real Verso. This gives him the sapience that the other painted people lack to realize their existence is lower than real humans.
Well the painted people have all the memories and legacy of the painted lumiere. Your justification purposefully falls apart as the writers (who made themselves the villains because in a meta narrative sense because being subtle is impossible now) wanted you to feel terrible for either choice.
Do you get it yet?

>>723313281
People have been doing plots more complicated than “beat the bad guy” in fiction for centuries now. Grey villains are nothing new.

Even then, it was obvious at a glance there was more to the plot than initially met the eye.

so just rant incoherently and name drop a streamer for no reason at all and you get all those (you)s, huh?
no wonder they keep doing it

>>723312754 (OP)
well duh, you did the moment you ditched the rest of the cast in the last third of the game.

>>723326878
I genuinely think the game will be remembered as an all time classic, so yeah, I fully expect to be having these exact same arguments on here 10 years from now.

>>723329574
>Verso does not want to die, he wants to not be a standin for the dead man he was created in the image of, he wants to not be the motivation for a slow suicide for his mother and, later, for alicia. The only way he sees of avoiding those fats do result in his death, but that doesn't mean death is his primary goal.
What a meaningless non-statement that tells you nothing about anything. Every single person who has ever wanted to die was trying to escape one fate or another, or dying for a greater cause. Who are these suicidal maniacs you're imagining who just want to die for dying's sake that you're contrasting Verso to?

22 years later, you faggots are still arguing this.

>ASMOND
what causes a person to think there's a d in the middle of his name? this is an indian thing, right?

>>723330574
Verso vs Alicia threads will be the new moving portal threads. We'll be having the same thread several times a week where we argue about the same thing and make the same exact arguments over and over again for the next decade and a half.

>>723313409
>Christians know their world is fake
You retard.

Why do so many people think painted Verso has the memories of the real one

>>723318853
We watched her do that with Lune and Sciel. She clearly managed to paint Pierre accurately as well given Sciel seems pretty happy with the result.

>>723312754 (OP)
>dogshit writers
>dogshit gameplay
>dogshit attempts at astroturfing
>dogshit "forced" fanbase actively hurting the games reputation

FF stays winning and all they had to do was nothing.

>>723332514
Not like ANYONE can complain.

>>723332514
That's her version of Sciel so obviously she's gonna be happy with her version of Pierre

>>723321181
>>723321414
They didn't bother in act 3 at all and it's very noticable, compare the coming back to lumiere with departing. They also tried some "epic" battle with the army you summon in the end but it's laughably small in size with like 3-4 random NPC's swooping in to intercept an enemy

>>723332686
But they actually bothered with the manor, they even modeled the whole "real life" exterior (that is never used and is currently floating way above lumiere)

>>723312754 (OP)
I'm sorry but I'd rather play a JRPG. I do not like French games at all, you can just tell immediately by how pretentious they are. Tards that haven't played a JRPG since SNES eat this sort of game up and use it as a cudgel against Japanese games.

>>723332639
Proof?
>>723332663
Kinda odd Maelle somehow managed to guess Sciel's suicide attempt and miscarriage

>>723332809
>Proof?
Esquie and Monoco both being super happy in her ending, despite, you know, knowing Verso's retarded amount of suffering.
Maelle just repainted everyone (yes, getting rid of verso's scar and his immortality shows she can do whatever the fuck she wants, he's not even part of the canvas chroma)

>>723332783
Isn't that manor used in other parts of the game? Might be a case of re-used assets. To be honest I can't remember how the manor you're referring to looked but there are several modeled throughout the game. Both inside and outside

>fluff pieces during award season
>nepo babby gonna buy his goty with billionaire daddys money

>>723333112
Nope, it's an off camera thing never used anywhere in the game.
They only got ""lazy"" in a cinematic with Maelle's ending.

>>723313123
>Verso has the memories of real Verso.
Headcanon.

>>723332904
Esquie is always happy and Monoco has reasons beyond Verso to be happy, namely that Noco gets to live.
Maelle also clearly didn't do a stellar job repainting Verso if, you know, he's experiencing a "retarded amount of suffering."

>>723333213
More like completely wrong, Clea says he only has Aline's impression of Verso, dude can't even remember what Renoir paints.

Play the fucking piano, Cuckso!

>>723333569
Why do people doubt his words?
Had the circumstances been different, I bet he would have loved to play the piano. But it's still perfectly understandable why he'd loathe it beyond belief in that ending.
There is genuinely no hypocrisy. Why do people act like there is?

>>723332789
Play French games, bitch

>>723312754 (OP)
I’m going to kill your friends. Then your family. I’ll make you watch your brother die—just in case it might inconvenience me someday. After that, I’ll lecture my father on the meaning of family… before I kill him too. I’ll lie to you about everything—your actions, their purpose—because explaining the truth is hard, and I’d rather you unknowingly destroy your hometown, loved ones, and comrades.

Remember my sister? She wants peace. She believes we can talk things through. She wrote me a letter full of hope—one I’ll never share. I’ll convince her not to kill herself, all while making her life so miserable that staying becomes the crueler option. I’ve had 100 years to accept these fake memories of a man I never was, and even though you all support me as my own person… I’ll still kill everyone in Lumiere for the sake of the woman who created me.

You’ve forgiven me—again—for everything. So I’ll hesitate briefly. But Alicia once lied to Renoir after getting 16 years of chaos injected into her brain, so naturally, I must now kill you all. Clearly, there were no alternatives.

Now: suicide. It's morally grey, and totally for her. I mean, you saw what happened with Aline. The Dessendre tried nothing, and it didn’t magically work out. So that’s proof, right?
It has to be, otherwise I would have to think back on the time I gaslit and killed my girlfriend over a minor misunderstanding I did not even try to explain.

We’ll never know who’s right. Just endless fog, ambiguity... and a piano.

Life keeps forcing cruel choices...

>>723334469
But Verso's goal wasn't suicide.

>>723330956
I refuse to believe that there are people as stupid as you. You think a soldier rushing into certain death to try and protect his nation and a terminal cancer patient choosing euthanasia are the same? You simply cannot be so dense that you don't understand that not all self-inflicted deaths are the same.

>>723333184
you will not convince maellefags that they're simply coping.

>>723334469
>the time I gaslit and killed my girlfriend over a minor misunderstanding I did not even try to explain.
You know, it's always been kinda weird how this gets glossed over. It was clear no one was buying his blatant lie and what they even witnessed was proof of the truth if Verso ever bothered explaining it.
But no, Verso is the suffering victim and everyone else in the world is wrong somehow.

It pains me greatly that some Versofags are NOT playing the piano. Something need to change.

>>723329326
>The poetic irony of Verso's character is that he's just doing what the real Verso would do to save his mother and sister's life again
>To nobody's surprise, AliciaFags completely missed this and think he's just pure evil

Verso deserved a much better sister.

>>723312754 (OP)
They by no means failed as writers. They simply overestimated the average intelligence of their audience. Ambiguity and nuance is foreign to the average normie retard who is incapable of abstract or critical thought. They must be explicitly told in no finer terms "this good " and "this bad" - utterly failing to grasp the nature of the endings as neither is "good" - simply which best morally aligns with the player.

Tragically, the average person is, in fact, fucking retarded, and concluded the cast "was not real" - justifying their stupidity. Destroying the canvas because one sides with the Dessendre and Verso's perspective is fair. Nuking it because it because "lol nawt reel" and undermining the last 40+ hours you spent with the cast? That's not on the writers, and they should to criticize themselves for failing to make smooth brains activate their dried up, decayed synapses.

how come painted clea had painter powers and verso didnt

>>723334059
His goal was to destroy the world the entire time. He knew he was never going to play the piano for her.

>>723336905
Because of the what the real Clea did to her

>>723336953
>traps your matrix clone into an eternal existence of suffering till it kills itself
uhhhh clea bros how do we defend this?

>>723337091
>She was the one one with her head on le straight
>She was le taking care of business outside the canvas
Cleafags are simply onlyfans simps.

>>723312754 (OP)
yes, clea, renoir, aline, and alicia are humans and I connect to them as such

>it was all le dream
Kek faggot. Not playing your astroturfed parryslop.

>>723337242
They are not humans, they are video game characters.

>>723337091
>>traps your matrix clone into an eternal existence of suffering till it kills itself
>seduce and subsequently backstab your matrix clone's boyfriend into becoming a drone for the sole purpose of killing your other matrix clone
>torment your dead brother's soul (a literal child) because ???
>convince your crippled little sister to snort paint cocaine
>have your dead brother's matrix clone babysit your now-paint addict cripple sister instead of, you know, helping her yourself
Clea truly did nothing wrong

>>723337291
>dream

Literally 0 dream in this game.

>>723337980
You weren't supposed to give the retarded fuck a (You.)

>>723332571
WHY COULDNT THEY JUST RELEASE IT AS A SINGLE GAME !WHY DO I HAVE TO WAIT SO LONG

>>723337980
Debunked

>>723338118
Because now you'll pay for one game three times :)

>>723338316
i pirated both and i'm still angry

>>723328189
What makes you so sure?
What would that change about your life?

>>723328189
i wish we could all die

>>723338602
>continent is full of shit like this
>expeditioners don't wonder if the world is fake

>>723338930
What do you mean? They've trained the cat to dance like that

>>723317064
Define "reality."

I picked Maelle ending because I cared more about the painted people I spent the entire game with more than the shithead french family. Why should I have cared about any of them?

>>723339501
You're not required to, you made the decision based off what was important to you, which was the whole point :) Good job

>>723318693
verso is one of the most complex vidya characters of the last 20 years what the fuck are you on

>>723339501
>Shithead family
Literally the head of Painters's council.
Clea is currently fighting the Writers.
BTW next game will be about Clea fighting the Writers "IRL"
I have my sources

>>723339501
NO YOU CAN'T CARE ABOUT THEM BECAUSE THEY AREN'T REAL! IT'S LIKE THE SIMS!!

>>723339880
Who cares about some council background lore bullshit?

>>723313042
Defeated by humanity being mostly sociopaths

The writers' drug addiction allegory falls flat when the solution involves committing genocide. One problem here completely overshadows the other, buddy.

>>723340243
The genocide was already perpetuated by Renoir. Bringing them back so they can be in Maelle's weird fantasy reality where no one can die and everyone is pretend happy until she dies is another matter entirely.

>>723340243
It also falls flat when you remember that the family by extension would be professional drug dealers. Who the hell teaches children how to do something that's apparently highly addictive and dangerous and why am I supposed to feel bad for them?

>>723340450
>no one can die
>pretend happy
headcanon

>>723340243
Not if you love your family, it doesn't.

>>723340562
They aren't my family.

>>723340562
Is this the most misunderstood graph of all time?

>>723340675
But they are Renoir's. Which problem overshadows which depends on who you ask.

>>723341027
Renoir is the antagonist. Him wanting to genocide innocent people for his own selfish reasons is why he's the antagonist.

>>723341027
NTA but the original article of this thread is about how the audience reacts, rather than how Renoir does. The audience is not related to any of these characters.

>>723341152
I agree with you. But I'd absolutely genocide a canvas of painted people to save my wife ad child. And if I were a painted person, I'd fight bitterly to save my world regardless of what it cost Renoir.
>>723341168
>The audience is not related to any of these characters.
Which is the point. Art is both window and mirror, good media tells you something about the artist and yourself.

>>723341424
What did Expedition 33 tell you about yourself?

>>723313341
Konosuba really nailed parodying isekai while it was hot.

>>723341552
I want to fuck a paint brush.

>>723312754 (OP)
>devs are already smelling their own farts
>they think of themselves the new gods of gaming and next game is gonna be a complete shit show
tale old as time

>>723342005
They're French. This how 100% of French artists act.

>>723312754 (OP)
if you think either ending is the "good" one then you lack media literacy, shrimple as.

Ex33 has great character development but Chrono Ark did the whole "Real legacy vs False Heaven" twist ending far better with far less time.

Expedition 33 truly is art. What else can make people debate this furiously if not true art? The last time I remember something of this magnitude happening was when Avengers Infinity War released and people were debating whether Thanos was right or not. Actual masterpiece absolute cinema art.

>>723340243
>The writers' drug addiction allegory falls flat when the solution involves committing genocide. One problem here completely overshadows the other, buddy.
There is no drug addiction allegory, the story is about grief which in many ways is more dangerous.
How people find this retarded "but it's drugs" garbage is beyond me.

>>723343620
Clea called it a drug and aline and alicia do use it to numb themselves to pain, but I agree it's retarded to pretend the writers were saying "THIS IS DRUGS IT'S A DRUG ALLEGORY." Comments like that are always attached to the dumbest posts.

>>723340562
Especially if you love your family, you shouldn't be doing this. You just come off as a sociopath.

>>723345330
Don't you see its escapism? It isn't healthy!

>>723346543
>my wife and daughter are killing themselves
>better leave them to it, don't want to appear mean
You're that maellefag whose dad abandoned him, right?

It's just a video game. Just reload the save game and pick a different ending if you're unhappy with the one you got.

>>723346718
some of the earliest memes i saw in these threads

>>723346851
>>723346718
And another.
>>723346825
Is there anyone who didn't check out both immediately?

reminder

>>723346769
I forgot I am on /v/. /v/ can only think in extremes, just like Renoir.
There is a lot of fucking grey area between "do nothing" and "commit genocide".

>>723347556
kek it really is you. Anyways Aline decided to die in the canvas rather than face grief in reality. There was no gray area, it was accept her suicide or force her out.

>>723347730
>Damn, my wife is spending too much time in the canvas, it's getting unhealthy. I better go in and start genociding her creations, that'll get her out of there in a snap!

>>723312754 (OP)
>director says he wants it to be open for interpretation
>but then says that you have to interpret it X way

>>723347925
What is controversial about "I hoped people would interpret it a certain way, and will feel I did a poor job if they don't"? He's calling himself a failure, not placing the failure at the feet of the consumers.

who was in the wrong here

>>723312754 (OP)
>nudges players in the right direction
i'm sure xe does

>>723348380
Painted alicia for dying.

AAAAAAAAA
I DIDNT MEANT TO EXTERMINATE A WHOLE WORLD
I DIDND'T THINK THEY WERE REAL PEOPLE
I'M SOR-

>>723314351
She’s a mute, not a cripple.

ITT: Drawn To Life 2 all over again

>>723348636
Manchildren can't fathom discomfort. Many people in worse phyisical shape than Alicia choose life every day, without having her money or magical powers. Alicia's life isn't going to be easy but everyone saying it's a guaranteed suicide is just a massive pussy.

>>723339501
They were kinda dumbasses
>mom who absorbs herself in TV dramas because she hates her own kids, and a dad whose solution is to try to break the TV
Literally why do I have sympathy for these first world problems ivory tower boomer retards?

>>723348990
She made herself a brand new family and decided shed just kill herself inside.
Just like Alicia.

>>723336934
>His goal was to destroy the world the entire time.
But it wasn't.
If it was he would have allied up with Renoir(real) the moment his mother was ousted from the painting. But he very clearly did not do that.
And that's because he had other aspirations. Even if things did not pan out preferably.

>>723349141
Because her old family are already assholes?

Having to lecture and berate your audience means (you) failed.

>>723313085
They are people. The Dessandres are gods. We unshackled a demiurge to boot.

>>723312754 (OP)
Cool. Now stop invading my games and go back to making movies.
>TLDR; E33 sux

>>723347917
And it would have. She did it for him, so he knows it’s effective.

>>723349325
>if this message didn't come across, it's because i did a poor job as a writer
>HE'S LECTURING ME
you're so sensitive

>>723347917
Yes.

>>723350010
"nudges players in the right direction" is a sissy code word for damage control

>>723349960
>>723350065
It took 67 in-painting years and would've taken longer if not for Maelle's interference, so it didn't work.

>>723350180
It would have worked. Success was inevitable. The biggest problem was that Renoir wasn’t strong enough to gommage them all immediately and Clea was too busy for more than occasional help.

>>723349164
He let Lumiere get gommaged on purpose and was letting Renoir gommage him. Alicia stopped it and pulled him away.

>>723350180
but it did :)

>>723350348
Anon he could have just gone back whenever he wanted. He could have stabbed Alicia in the spine at any point. Even if Sciel and Lune were there, he’s fucking immortal, they can’t stop him. He thought there might be a chance for a third option, until Alicia turned delusional too.

>>723350348
He went with Alicia willingly, and even if it were unwilling, he could've just left when the party was asleep and taken esquie and monoco too.

>>723348380
Verso killed the rest of her family so she asked Maelle to erase her, which Maelle accepted.

>>723337698
The lampmaster is implied to be something Clea painted in as a prank on Verso long ago. And yeah, it’s a slightly cruel prank to put the boogeyman into your brother’s room, but she was also a child at the time.

Some anons are talking about
>No happy ending guis, its deep and french and shiterino GAWD
but if you're going to pull that card, you have to make it REALLY justified and doubly so when you're asking people to CHOOSE one of several endings and they're all shitty. Its not "bittersweet" a lot of the time and its just
>2Deep4U Misery porn, you philistine!
I've not played the game yet, but I can see why some people would be pissed if in a game like this there were multiple "bad endings" especially when many games with multiple endings have a good one somewhere if you do the right thing, or there's a NG+ accessible further explanation/new chapter, or a super secret "true ending" etc...so if none of those exist, people balking at the situation is understandable. The Drakengard / Nier series for instance is one that often did "bittersweet" right. Nier Automata had several endings of different levels of happiness, but then came up with the final final true ending which required a fuckload of risk and sacrifice, but brought things to a satisfying 'good ending' conclusion all of which felt earned.

>>>723313149
>"you've been created by a higher being" is what 95% people on Earth believe to one degree or another.
95% people on Earth believe
I don't consider jeets or africans to be people, that number is much lower

>>723351185
>I've not played the game yet

>>723351104
>she was also a child at the time.
She was a child when she first invented the lampmaster, but the ones we see were recent. Nevrons didn't exist until after the fracture and Clea turned pClea into a nevron factory. She's older than Verso so at the youngest she's 27

>>723351185
it's more like both endings are happy and sad from a certain perspective. It's not just misery for the sake of misery

>>723351185
>many games with multiple endings have a good one somewhere if you do the right thing, or there's a NG+ accessible further explanation/new chapter, or a super secret "true ending" etc...
Why can't some stories just be sad ones?

>>723351185
It’s not miserable at the end, it’s bittersweet. There’s good and bad in both endings.

Mario RPG combat isn't engaging. I stopped playing after 3 hours after seeing everything the game had to offer.

>>723351385
Sure, but the lampmaster trapped in the deepest parts of the painting is the big prank to scare Verso and now scares Versoul. She just reprised it to act as a nevron.

>>723312754 (OP)
You mean we were right and maelle fags we’re wrong?

>>723350461
>He could have stabbed Alicia in the spine at any point
No he couldn't. She would just come back.

>>723323138
>we failed as writers because you didn't think about our game as we wanted

>>723351563
why was the one at stone wave cliffs so fucking tough, could it just not be defeated until the one in the paint workship was?

>>723351731
To what? Renoir is unmaking the canvas, and would have Verso’s help. It would be Alicia versus the world, and Clea and Lune would be dead and Alicia wouldn’t have been able to grab their chroma to remake them. She could still have the corpse expedition plan assuming they don’t just dissipate when she gets her spine removed, but those can’t beat Renoir.

>>723351731
>No he couldn't. She would just come back.
Renoir would destroy the painting though.

>>723351851
If you meant to convey something and didn't and acknowledge it being your own fault, what's the problem? Are you just one of those "it's vr actually" fags and you're mindbroken by the devs confirming they consider painted people human?

>>723351884
I assume it’s just a really strong Nevron against a fairly weak party at the time. HP and power scaling through the game is canon after all.

>>723312754 (OP)
He's getting raped in the sequel isn't he

>>723352139
>IT’S TIME FOR BROTHER CORRECTION
>non, Alicia, NON

>>723312754 (OP)
>Asmondgold
hello turkroach squad! is your small headed e-celeb still SCRAMBLING to salvage his reputation?

>>723352343
This guy is such a fraud

>>723351980
To be fair, they did convey it and conveyed it several times throughout the game. Even Renoir, who pro-erasure people say was always right, treats Verso as human and even calls Lune and Sciel Maelle's friends. The only character to ever even hint at painted people not being real is Clea.
The people who claim they aren't real simply REALLY wanted to kill everyone for one reason or another. It's a shame the writers blame themselves for people not paying attention

>>723352685
are we roach posting

>>723352818
Of course, the frog is being humble when the reality is video games have the lowest average iq for consumers of any media.v422k

>>723351420
>>723351474
If this is accurate, then okay - if they explain it well and its "earned". However many of the responses seem to claim otherwise, or hypothesize how there were plot threads that could have gone elsewhere or otherwise suggest it wasn't earned, clear, and satisfying and there were other roads that could/should have been traveled, ends tied up, or the like.

>>723351424
They can, but people need to be on board for that ideally from the start. People go watch tearjerkers knowing its going to be sad. Games are harder - you put in effort so typically "it all went to shit" is a hard thing to pull off and make it satisfying. in something JRPG-related for instance, if you played FFVI and either A) the game ended entirely at Floating Continent or General Leo fight or B) at the end of the World of Ruin, after you got everyone together and fixed their physical and mental issues, Kefka basically
>Ascends to Godhood, MWA HA HA HA HA, and bitch slaps everyone before they even split up in the final dungeon, goes back inside to jack off and rule over his world of insanity
People would think it an atonal shitty ending and not satisfying at all. Doing a sad or even hypothetically 'bittersweet' ending is much harder and its REALLY easy to fuck it up without making it feel justified and like a satisfying ending to the game that wasn't there to basically spit in the face of all the time, all the JRPG battle, all the characters you became invested in, all the story that was built.

>>723353241
>suggest
This is /v/. People either just want to shitpost or are actually retarded. That people have arguments about which ending is “better” is obvious, besides that.

>>723353241
It sounds like you're really used to shit stories and have been conditioned to always expect something happy. Other mediums are known for surprise, bummer twists. Video games have historically had pretty shit writing, which was perfectly acceptable because for many games the writing didn't matter at all, and for others it only had to be passable enough to get you somewhat invested.
>people need to be on board for that ideally from the start.
is bullshit.

>>723353241
Anon a major theme in E33 is the loss of what could have been. Everybody is needing to deal with reality that contravenes their plans and desires. The fact there is no “everybody wins everything” ending is the point. Getting the saccharine “True Ending” where everyone is happy, all the Painters learn self control and sign up for therapy, and Aline steps in the painting hand-in-hand with Clea to fix it into a paradise. That’s cheap and cheapens the moral quandry.

>>723343620
>my wife is grieving, there I must commit genocide to cure her!
Bitch, that interpretation makes even less sense.

>>723353693
He’s not going in to cure her grief, he’s going in to preclude her death so she can grieve in a way that doesn’t kill her.

>>723353693
>my wife is grieving
dying*
why do posts shittin on renoir always intentionally obfuscate the fact that the canvas will kill Aline?

>>723353241
>spit in the face of all the time, all the JRPG battle, all the characters you became invested in, all the story that was built
Being invested in things is what makes tragedy effective. I think you just don't like tragedies.

>>723353857
Because Maellefags are troons either literally or spiritually.

>>723353857
Anon, you're the one saying the story is about grief. Aline is killing herself using grief/drugs. The canvas people aren't doing shit and are collateral for a family of genocidal maniacs.

>>723353241
A possible "happy" ending is teased a handful of times throughout the name, specifically Alicia's letter to Maelle when she writes "Your mother paints life. Whilst your father, death. What will you paint?" and Verso's journal which he ends with "And once we free Maman, she… she’ll bring you back… It won’t be forever. I promise. I promise… We deserve to live. All of us. We deserve to exist."
Part of the tragedy told is that none of the people with the power to make a difference had the capacity to look at the big picture and see that it's possible for everyone to be happy.

>>723354032
Yeah but that family are gods who can create thousands more worlds full of life like theirs

Painters>>>>>Painties

>>723354032
Okay? Well unfortunately they are standing in the way of Renoir’s family being whole and his own healing process. Aline should have never made full-ass humans in the canvas.

>>723353978
So it seems, so it seems.
>>723354032
Yes, Aline is killing herself, and so Renoir finds himself in a position where he can let his wife kill himself, or sacrifice the strangers she created to save her life. I'd save my wife in that situation. Not without any guilt, but she's simply more important to me. It makes sense for the Lumierens to be against that. I'd be against it, too, if I were one of them. It is what it is.

>>723353857
She was using the canvas safely before Renoir tried to force her to grieve in a way he approves of, btw. People always leave that part out for some reason.

>>723354063
>and see that it's possible for everyone to be happy.
Only if the women leave and grieve. Then maybe they can enjoy the painting in a way that doesn't kill them.

>>723354224
This

>>723354198
>people always leave out my headcanon
I wonder why.

See you guys next thread

>>723354293
>For a few moments a day, my heart beats again…
Right, I forgot those "people" didn't play the game.

>my wife is depressed over the poverty in Africa
>I will therefore genocide all of Africa in order to save her

I am disturbed that people here genuinely think like this.

>>723354198
>safely
Anon being in the canvas kills you. She wasn’t going to come out. She literally made a surrogate family in there. She had already let all of her duties lapse by the time Renoir went in to pull her back out, and she was so resistant to it that the fracture occurred. And now we’re at the setting, where the entire fucking family is needed to try to stop mom from killing herself.

>>723354423
Anon your wife is depressed over the poverty in america and locked herself in her room where she plays legos all day.

>>723354435
She says she was using it for brief periods at a time. If entering the canvas kills you no matter how "safe" you act, they wouldn't allow children to use it as a playground, would they?

>>723353461
You didn't read anything I said did you? In any media, a well made sad ending is harder to do well than a happy one. Games its even harder because unlike sitting down for an hour or two of a movie or thumbing through the pages of a book over a weekend, you're investing a lot of time in the journey of playing the game itself - the success of the protag is a direct reflection of your ability and effort as a player. We've seen how trying to fuck with this can go very wrong with
>Spec Ops: The Line
Where the message is
>LOOK HOW HORRIBLE AND VIOLENT YOU CHOSE TO BE
trying to be the sort of sad, mature story you're referencing to be artistically viable, but the refusal to allow the player to take any actions outside (ie NOT shooting the civs, white phosphorus , even when many player tried for minutes to shoot over their heads, avoid doing other shit) and then coming back to yell YOU MONSTER fucked the whole effect up. Trying to be all deep n somber and shit after watching Apocalypse Now didn't work without doing it right. That's an issue of the core storytelling and made worse by it being a game but not controlling for those variables properly.
>Twist
Twists only work again if everything else is done correctly and even then, its precarious otherwise M Night Shamalan would be the best filmmaker ever and all of the SUBVERTING EXPECTATERINOS shit from other authors would have been brilliant instead of tiresome

>>723353648
I'm willing to believe this could be possible, but unless >>723353383 is correct, then why are so many people upset here? Also, dealing with reality can lead to people adapting and changing from what they thought things would be to deal with what is, so if that wasn't properly hashed out then claiming that stubborn people being stubborn or intractable is a cheap way to make 2deep4u-BIGSAD ending .

>>723353908
Investment in the story is different than the investment from your role in it as a player, unique to gaming

>>723354621
Anon she wasn’t using it for brief periods by the time Renoir went in. She had literally already let all of her responsibilities lapse. She’s the “former” head of the painters. At this point she’s been in there for weeks of months continually. Just look at her form inside the painting, does that look healthy?

>>723312836
Nothing but sugar. In fact, 1 or 2 doses of psychedelics throughout a lifetime actually could make a person aware of all the artificial slop we constantly consume, but more than that will only buty them more into the fakeness

>>723354729
>then why are so many people upset
Shitposting and effective tragedy resemble one another.
>dealing with reality can lead to
They didn’t deal with reality. They preferred a reality that bends to their whim where they can ignore tragedy happened. This is the central conflict.

>>723354747
>>723354392
What does "few moments A DAY" mean to you? She used it briefly each day, Renoir didn't approve. We can extrapolate that Renoir attempted to erase her painted family, she went berserk, and the Fracture was caused. But we know that she was indeed using the canvas in a healthy manner originally

>>723355004
What does “Time moves forward and notes left don’t communicate the entirety of the story” mean to you? Verso’s note talk about how he’s going to save everyone and bring his lover back. Is Verso actually a secret triple agent and right after he stops Versoul from painting, does he actually just make another painting with Julie in it for fucks?

>>723355004
If Renoir is literally the entire problem, why do you think Clea helped him out? If just kicking Renoir out and fixing the canvas would have solved everything, Clea could have done it trivially.

>>723355113
>Is Verso actually a secret triple agent and right after he stops Versoul from painting, does he actually just make another painting with Julie in it for fucks?
That means shit changes. He originally had hope that the canvas could be saved and everyone would be brought back by Aline.
Similarly, Aline responsibly used the canvas until Renoir attempted to erase her painted family, causing her to make them immortal and her keeping watch over the canvas 24/7. I never claimed that she ALWAYS used the canvas responsibly, only that she did initially until Renoir tried meddling with it.
>>723355319
Because at that point, kicking Renoir out isn't going to stop Aline. Even if Renoir left, Aline obviously is going to want to make sure her family is safe since there would be nothing stopping Renoir from erasing everything the moment she leaves.

>>723352910
>>723352685
>>723352343
>ZAAAAP~!!1

>>723355509
Yes, shit changes. When Renoir went in to stop Aline, shit had changed. She was no longer there for “moments each day”, she let all of her responsibilities lapse in favor of canvas family. Why exactly are you certain Renoir went in when she was fully capable?

>>723355741
>Why exactly are you certain Renoir went in when she was fully capable?
Because in the exact same journal Aline specifically says that Renoir would disapprove of what she was doing at the time, which was her briefly using it at the time the journal was made. Renoir's own journal even highlights his own dissatisfaction with her at the time. All evidence points to Renoir attempting to stop her way of grieving and it pushing her over the edge into what we see in the game.
Even Verso admits he wasn't always immortal, which would make no sense with Aline always intended to live with them forever.

>>723356115
Precisely no evidence points that way, anon. You are looking at two journals written an unknown amount of time before the fracture and assuming that they are directly preceding. Verso was always immortal, he was created immortal, he lied when he said he “suddenly became” immortal. He lied because he didn’t want anybody to know he’s literally the Paintress’ family.

>>723356304
>Verso was always immortal, he was created immortal, he lied when he said he “suddenly became” immortal. He lied because he didn’t want anybody to know he’s literally the Paintress’ family.
He literally says "some of us stopped aging" and that it's a "gift from the Paintress." Yes, all this IS evidence to what I said, while there's no evidence whatsoever that she suddenly decided (with no interference from others) to kill herself with the canvas.

>>723356543
>some of us stopped aging
Yeah, he lied. Alicia stopped aging pretty fucking fast, didn’t she? Same with Renoir, who looks younger than Renoir. Clea looks exactly the fucking same. So does Verso, minus his shock of white hair. Verso lied. The liar lied.