Thread 723440701

Why didn't Digimon succeed with western audiences? Pokemon is still huge in the west even after almost 30 years while Digimon didn't even get 5 years of popularity

>>723440701 (OP)
Angela Anaconda happened

>>723440701 (OP)
Pokemon had god tier marketing, and the anime was a huge success. Digimon games were largely ranging from mediocre to decent. The Anime hardly stood out.

>B-b-but Digimon had the better story

An entertaining show > mid story. Pokemon exceled at being a very entertaining show. It's why we have so many memes from the Anime.

SMT
DQM
Digimon
All these monster mashers all have one thing in common: discontinuity. People really, really fucking liked that pokemon evolutionary lines maintained themes. You don't start with a dragon wielding a battle-axe and level it up into an angel bondage loli.

fuckin loved that submarine narwal mon as a kid.
i always thought digimon were way more cool and badass but pokemon just came first i guess, and the portable games were great. i was able to spend way more time with pokemon

>>723440701 (OP)
too wordy
pokemon is easy for anyone to understand

>>723440701 (OP)
Digimon designs sucked

>>723443131
and still do

I liked Digimon more when I was younger. I didn't even beat my first Pokemon game until later in my adult life. Digimon was always the best.

>>723440701 (OP)
The Digimon series was managed too inconsistently, and has less money and marketing push behind it.

Basically what >>723442821 said. Also what >>723443003 said.

Which is a shame because Digimon has always been my preferred series and I still think the first 3 season of the anime are good for kids, but it's hard to recommend any of the games or how the series has gone since then.

>>723440701 (OP)
>Why didn't Digimon succeed with western audiences?
Because they changed the songs into niggie rap shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNikMi0b24M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czHmCZFWooI

They also changed the entire dialogue to be non-sensical garbage.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GthuzJXPM9E

The reason Digimon never blew up in the West the way it should have:
> The dub fiasco. Yeah, it had some memorable lines, but Saban/Disney/whatever execs butchered the tone. Constant jokes, mood whiplash, and censorship turned it into a parody of itself. Meanwhile the rest of the world got a more faithful version and actually respected it.
> The TCG got annihilated by Upper Deck. Rules were a mess, distribution was worse, and Bandai only stepped in after the damage was already done. By then Pokémon and YGO had already eaten the entire market.
> The video games had potential, but Bandai forced devs to pump out multiple titles in short bursts. Quality suffered hard. When they finally figured things out (Re:Digitize, Adventure PSP), they locked them to Japan. The few English releases we did get treated English as an afterthought: typos, broken menus, mistranslations everywhere.
> Cross‑media support was nonexistent. Manga, audio dramas, side stories? All Japan‑only. Western fans got scraps.
> Merchandising was a disaster. Toys were inconsistent, poorly marketed, and constantly compared to Pokémon’s juggernaut line. Kids didn’t even know half the Digimon existed outside the anime.
> Branding was all over the place. Every season had a new cast, new gimmick, new tone. Instead of building a consistent identity, it felt like a soft reboot every year.
> Timing killed it too. By the time Digimon Adventure 02 wrapped, Pokémon had already cemented itself as *the* monster-taming franchise in the west. Digimon was always playing catch‑up.
Honestly, Time Stranger is the very first Digimon project in years that actually feels like they got it right. Everything else in the West was mismanaged into the ground.

>>723443198
i keep seeing people whine about 02
i watched it and thought it was okay

>>723443349
You are correct with absolutely everything you said, except for Time Stranger being done right.

It's nice to see something Digimon get good initial sales, but it feels bad for the franchise in the long run. The gameplay has abandoned the original raising mechanics that set Digimon apart from Pokemon, so it plays just like Pokemon. And the new designs appealing to the coomer crowd might make some cash initially, but there are a million and one coomer games doing more hardcore porn for the crowd to move to and what then? Hey parents, buy this game with all the half-naked teenagers for your kids!

>>723443538
02 started out strong with the interesting idea of having a new generation, which again sets it apart from Pokemon with Ash being immortal. Also the Digimon Emperor being a human villain was another good unique move for the series. Plus there are other good ideas throughout like BlackWarGreymon's existential crisis.

But it also has a lot of meandering and the ending gets weird. The finale timeskip not leaving anything to the audience's imaginations left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths too, which probably gives them a bad impression of the season overall.

I think the first 3 seasons are still all worth a watch.

>>723440701 (OP)
As a Digimon fan it's this
Pokemon
>gameplay consistency
>good marketing
>steady flow of merchandise
>simple yet expressive designs

While Digimon is the opposite
>never stuck to a style of gameplay until about 2008(?)
>marketed horribly with an abysmal dub for the anime that only got worse over time
>merchandise often never came to the west leaving huge gaps between each release
>the monster designs are almost entirely gritty and locked to a single expression

>>723443845
>that set Digimon apart from Pokemon, so it plays just like Pokemon
Pokemon didn't invent turn based combat. There are many differences and quirks that the story games have that pokemon doesn't (many that pokemon does that digimon doesn't).
Secondly, they didn't ditch it. If someone at bandai really wanted to, they could very well work another World game. There's a reason why they even bothered to put Next Order on pc. Hell, next game could very well be Survive 2, now without a trainwreck of a dev cycle.
>Coomer designs
Oh please, digimon hasn't pandered to coomers as hard as they did in the early 10s. The newish designs are actually pretty cool, because the franchise isn't forced to keep a weird illusion that digimons are animals, so they are allowed to do whatever the fuck they want, giving us kinos like gundramon.
>Kids
And that's the last thing you are wrong about. Digimon actually shifted it's target demographic, from kids to teenagerd and above. While pokemon remains stagnant because at the end of the day have to make a game that even a 5 year old could beat, Digimon went to greener pastures that actually allowed freedom in terms of complexity, both aesthetic and gameplaywise.

>>723444740
>Digimon actually shifted it's target demographic, from kids to teenagerd and above.

For the generation that grew up with it you mean. How is it appealing to an older audience that's not already a fan of the series? Everyone I see talk about it is older and already familiar with Digimon from the early era.

>>723440701 (OP)
Digimon was decently successful along with Yugioh, Beyblade, Bakugon, etc. I think it's just because Pokemon arrived in the West first and foreign audiences--being less familiar with Japanese media--weren't able to distinguish these other brands from Pokemon so they were just seen as knockoffs. It's kind of like how the West is able to sustain a ton of realistic shooters all kind of bleed together for Eastern audiences.

>>723440701 (OP)
Digimon would have seen a massive revival in the 2010s if they were smart enough to make fire emblem games.

>>723443845
Fair enough. I was mostly pointing out that the English release of TS was actually pretty solid, more in terms of localization than the game itself. Even though they still use the dub names, at least it’s consistent, and the translation feels like they actually put some effort into it compared to past Digimon titles.
I personally liked the game, especially since I enjoyed my time with the CS games, but your opinion makes sense. Just to add, abandoning the original raising mechanics has always been a thing with the Story games (the western naming doesn’t help the confusion). That gameplay style is supposed to return in a future Digimon World title anyway, so it hasn’t been completely abandoned (yet).

>>723440701 (OP)
It's basically no different from comparing Mario and Sonic

>>723445229
do you think palworld could've been up there if they existed during that time since most were broadcasted brought more people in

>>723442821
also didn't help that mutts butchered their dub.

>>723445504
Palworld would have died instantly if it were contemporaneous with OG Pokemon. The whole reason Palworld blew up is because it's cashing in on Pokemon fans who are disappointed with how that franchise has been managed.

>>723445229
I wish Digimon had really leaned into the Tamers reimagining that felt way more distinct than everything else.

>>723445652
This anon is correct

>>723445504
Definitely not, it would have been treated as an extremely cheap knock off.
Hell if anything it might have actually helped Digimon out by removing that stigma from it.

>>723445717
It didn't though
Even if Tamers was a good show, it still basically hit the same beats as Adventure
edgy blue themed character that has to learn to mellow out
character with 5 year old sibling that's concerned about her health
BlackWarGreymon clone
MotW format at times
There's nothing special or interesting about it

>>723440701 (OP)
as a franchise the quality can vary. and they're also v-pets/tamagotchis which don't appeal to everyone
they're also obsessed with changing the formula and shaking things up
Pokemon is pokemon. there's different regions but there's always pokemon trainers getting badges or just fighting the strongest dudes around. the anime until recently was just ash going on adventures
every digimon game can be different, every anime can change what a digimon tamer is, change exactly how digimon exist in the world, and how people interact with them
and the designs aren't super kid friendly. like besides all the guns and demons, they're hard to draw for your average kid and evo-lines that aren't set in stone doesn't help either

>>723446087
>There's nothing special or interesting about it
Good, nuanced characters both for humans and digimon alike, with solid character arcs and growth, character and digimon designs, card buff/equipment concept, humans fusing with their digimon, everything about the D-reaper, more consistent animation, an actual organization tracking digimon and watching the kids interacting with them, digimon eating eachother to increase their strength...
>herp derp I recognize some similarities to another series so I feel weirdly confident accusing it of having NOTHING unique or interesting.
You're insane.

>>723446495
>Good, nuanced characters both for humans and digimon alike, with solid character arcs and growth
ENTER

>>723440701 (OP)
Pokemon had the power of Nintendo behind it and the games and cards were hugely popular. The anime itself was only popular for a season or two.

>>723446495
>Good, nuanced characters both for humans and digimon alike, with solid character arcs and growth
Not special or interesting, not unique to Tamers, and not even really true, Impmon is the only character worth anything

> card buff/equipment concept
show itself barely used it. Honestly Xros Wars did a similar gimmick much more thoroughly

>everything about the D-reaper,
The D-Reaper was complete shit, easily the worst thing about the show. Zero personality villain that had absolutely nothing to do with the main cast and wasn't even really defeated by them. Instead it was this stupid group of programmers, only two of which even had names, that saved the day

>more consistent animation
digimon anime looked like shit until Colon, let's be honest

>an actual organization tracking digimon and watching the kids interacting with them
That did literally nothing the entire show and didn't matter whatsoever

>>723446628
>>723446628
he's barely in tamers, you're acting he was in every episode saving them every time
He even ends up a jobber later on

I literally grew up when Digimon first hit shores. It failed because the games were complete ass and that's true to this day. The series only staying power was the anime and it had the immense perk of the original and secondary casts getting 2 eps shown right after school ended (right before 2 eps of big bad beetleborgs). that really kept it alive and in kids minds. then the shitty card show was complete ass and on a terrible morning time slot at airing and never got the double ep or after school treatment. then fox kids largely died not long after.

>>723447093
Oh you're just baiting, nevermind.

pokemon are like animals which kids could understand more. digimon are... something else...

>>723447218
digimon are for chuuni kids

>>723447127
No I legitimately think Tamers is barely better than 02 and I still do not understand why anyone likes it other than nostalgia glasses

>>723447320
>No I legitimately think Tamers is barely better than 02
That's why I think you're baiting. I legitimately do not respect your opinion. You're terribly dismissive.

A lot of kids just thought it was a Pokemon ripoff without ever watching it.

>>723447093
>The D-Reaper was complete shit
>stupid group of programmers
Fuck off. That shit was peak. Inspired me to become a software dev.

>>723447370
that's what we were told
most kids are stupid little parrots

pokemon had more memorable characters and moments. i hardly remember anything from digimon.

>>723444740
>Digimon actually shifted it's target demographic, from kids to teenagerd and above
>While pokemon remains stagnant because at the end of the day have to make a game that even a 5 year old could beat
It's a business, not your fucking family member. I will never understand this autism that insists a video game is supposed to grow up with the person who's playing them. No it doesn't. What matters is who's buying the games and in Digimon's case it happens to be the people that already play Digimon and have been for the last 30 years. Pokemon on the other hand managed to do the one-two combo and get everybody involved be they adult or child just starting out with one simple premise, collecting. Marbles, pogs, beyblades, people like collecting shit and they also enjoy talking to others about the shit they collected and even competing to see whose collective shit is better. Pokemon's in that same lane so it hardly matters how easy the single player is when at the end of the day people will be trading, competing, and socializing over Pokemon.

>Beyblade
Beyblade is kind of fascinating in that it did have success here in the states when it first launched, but it always hid away to reinvent itself up until 2015 with Burst which pretty much gave Beyblade as a franchise the momentum to grow larger than it ever has in the last decade and even moved onto its current generation within the same year as the previous one ending back in 2023, which was a first for them.

>>723447417
Look man, I'm in tech too, I just thought it was extremely unsatisfying for a bunch of randos that were barely in the show to be the ones actually resolving things while all the actual main cast can do is buy time for these randos

>>723447472
Yeah the only reason I watched it as a kid was because my older brother was already watching it. If I didn't watch it with him I probably would have assumed it was a ripoff too.

>>723447496
I only remember the bad moments in pokemon
mainly charmeleon/charizard being a brat and ash losing many times

>>723440701 (OP)
Pokemon is for everyone. Young or old, male or female. Digimon for young boys only.

puppetmon's sorrow shaped me into the man i am today.

>>723440701 (OP)
Submarinemon is contender for most retarded Digimon design

>>723447496
Pokemon doesn't have anything close to Our War Game.

>>723447496
the only thing i remember from digimon was a little brother being upset with his older brother and running away. i stopped watching when the evolutions got convoluted.

>>723440701 (OP)
Digimon was too experimental and creative compared to Pokemon and I honestly appreciate that.
Pokemon was Pokemon, you knew what you were getting into , every game is the same , every anime is the same , every character is the same and the designs were made specifically to be sold as plushies and toys later on.
What kind of plushie are you going to make from digimon designs?
You have to remember that Pokemon biggest source of revenue is toys not the video games or anime.
SMT was basically in the same position. Demons or personas aren't really marketable but that doesn't matter because it allows the designers to do what they want and go wild.
In the end even though Pokemon is and will always be the biggest it's in a position where creativity and effort is dead because it's too popular and successful that taking risks , trying new things and experimenting with designs philosophy and stories is nonsensical at this point.
I don't think If digimon or SMT got this big we'd have the variety we have now.

>>723447725
the latias movie is pretty good but in a different way

pokemon had a great anime, cards, video games, and toys. i know digimon had a game on ps1, but i never played it, i never saw any toys and i don't think i ever saw any cards.

>>723447856
SMT is a good comparison, especially since Digimon also has many mythological and Judaeo-Christian inspired designs.

>>723440701 (OP)
>>723442821
>>723442929
>>723443198
Why are you posting this shit.

Time Stranger is the most successful Digimon game in 20 years.
Beat is looking to be the best Digimon anime in over 15
Digimon is better than it's ever been.

Nobody ever thought Digimon could recover after Survive (biggest flop of a digimon game since World 3) and Tri + Kizuna annihilated anybody who was interested in even the anime.

>Muh pokemon numbers
The two genres aren't even the same. Unless you think 'fighting with monsters' is a genre.

Games:
Dragon Quest Monsters > Monster Rancher > Pokemon > Digimon

Anime:
Digimon > Monster Rancher > Dragon Quest Adventure of Dai > Pokemon

Overall Best: Monster Rancher

>>723447972
Pokemon definitely beat it in merchandise. There was a card game, but it was irrelevant compared to Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh.

>>723447972
Bandai did this really retarded thing where they went all-in on a shitload of Card genres at once instead of picking one and focusing on it. Did it pay off? Fuck no, they got annihilated by Yugioh.

Meanwhile, the Digimon card game, of which the most popular anime season was dedicated to advertising, was absent in most of the west. You could not find it in a store until multiple years after Tamers ended. Thanks scamdai.

>>723447972
is the ps1 game good if you don't know anything about digimon?

>>723448012
SMT was so beautiful to me as someone obsessed with character designs and art because you'd get something like this.
The reason I never got into Pokemon much is because the designs never appealed to me.
Digimon is more of a mixed bag with some creatures looking more similar to Pokemon some closer to DQ and some to demons.
Some of my favorite digimon designs can probably fit in persona like baalmon and antylamon.

Can't believe Gatomon is a champion level still.

>>723448239
Not unless you like a bunch of shitty minigames and battles that you have minimal control over

>>723443845
>retard
"Digimon Story" has always been an RPG spinoff from the pet-sim format (usually called Digimon World, but is sometimes mixed up with the story games in localization)

>>723442821
Digimon games sucked.
Monster designs not as memorable.
Anime was inferior.
Had less marketing.

Even now when I look at new digimon games and see those monster designs I have zero appetite to try them.

>>723448239
The PS1 game can be good if you're a kid because it's basically a high budget Tamagotchi pet simulator where your pet gets reborn into new forms based on stats and you never know what you're going to get. There's a great sense of wonder and discovery to it.

Of course, if you're old enough to know you should just look up how to optimize the system you won't have the same experience. Then it's more like a typical RPG with training replacing grinding in battles. Might still be worth a look since there's not really much else like it though.

>>723448491
>Digimon games sucked.
World 1 is a fantastic game once you 'get it', and there is no other game like it.

The problem is that it's a game with the depth of Black and White but made for kids, so of course they didn't get it.

>>723448491
>Digimon games sucked.
And so did Pokemon they were just too easy and people wanted to catch em all so it didn't matter
>Monster designs not as memorable.
How come? If anything it's probably the only thing that kept digimon alive in the public conscious with repetitive memes about how cat turned to woman and dinosaur has guns
>Anime was inferior.
Even pokeheads admit the digimon anime was better. It's not even a debate.
>Had less marketing.
Ok ? So did many great franchises you never heard of until their 8th or 9th installment probably.
>Even now when I look at new digimon games and see those monster designs I have zero appetite to try them.
What monster designs you find good ?

>>723448794
Pokemon RBY was revolutionary and the games were perfectly fun turn-based RPGs up to Platinum. Digimon at it's best doesn't come close to Pokemon at its best (arguably barely better than its worst).

>>723448491
>Anime was inferior.
Gr8 b8
no honestly, good one.

>I wonder what team rocket is going to do today? are they gonna steal pikachu???? oh my god they may get pikachu this time!!!!

meanwhile
>Yeah I'm totally gonna fuck this loli and raise a race of Digimon ubermensch. how else will I rule the digital world if not for my loli sex slave?

>>723448491
>Monster designs not as memorable.
If you actually watched the show you wouldn't think this. I remembered all the main Digimon years after I stopped keeping up with it. How can you forget MetalGreymon?

>>723448876
>Pokemon RBY was revolutionary
It was literally just Dragon Quest + Handheld.

>>723448960
Dragon Quest's collecting never came close to Pokemon until Dragon Quest Monsters which came AFTER.

>>723443349
>> The dub fiasco. Yeah, it had some memorable lines, but Saban/Disney/whatever execs butchered the tone. Constant jokes, mood whiplash, and censorship turned it into a parody of itself. Meanwhile the rest of the world got a more faithful version and actually respected it.
you act like the pokemon dub was good. Stopped reading her

>>723443349
hey digimon hey digimon friends to the boys and girls

>>723445437
>one is safe corporate garbage
>one is soulful but mismanaged

>>723448909
I actually did watch the first three seasons and metal garurumon was my favourite. Metal greymon is a close second. That said my point stands.

>>723448876
You only say that because you played them as a kid and the Pokemon brand was already well integrated into every kid's imagination. You're gonna enjoy these games more if you are obsessed with Pokemon but from an outsider perspective they were pretty mediocre and repetitive and easily surpassed by better turn based jrpgs of that time.
There's a reason we began to see only adults buying Pokemon games later on even though these games are targeted towards children and the children don't care enough and just play Roblox.

>>723448794
>And so did Pokemon they were just too easy and people wanted to catch em all so it didn't matter
Honestly if you think Pokemon RBY and GSC sucked then I don't care enough to argue with you further. Sorry.

>>723449065
>Dragon Quest's collecting never came close to Pokemon
It was better than Pokemon in every single way.

Digimon Fan: Tai
Pokemon Fan: Yamato
Simple as

>>723449260
I haven't touched a pokemon game in 15 years, but I just booted up Fire Red out of novelty the other month and beat in a week. It's really good. Can't say the same for Digimon World 1-3. Rumble Arena was GOAT though.

>>723449324
Digimon World 1 isn't a game you beat in a week Thoughbeitever and the attitude you had going into it is probably why you didn't enjoy it.

>>723449260
>There's a reason we began to see only adults buying Pokemon games later on even though these games are targeted towards children and the children don't care enough and just play Roblox.
That's not really true. There's plenty of kids who still play new pokemon games. Just watch any pokemon tournament and you will see tons of kids signing up. I went to a TCG tournament last year and 1/4 of the contestants were kids.

But either way your point kind of sucks since kids these days just scroll tiktok and play roblox all day. They don't really play any of these games and same goes for Digimon, Sonic, Palworld, etc.

>>723449234
Aside from the memes most Digimons actually have a pretty linear evolution line if you wanted that.
Lopmon will still be a rabbit creature even in mega form.

>>723449407
>Uhm acshually the game is really good you just didn't get it cause you had attitude
No. I was a kid and it wasn't as fun as Pokemon. Every single other kid agreed.

>>723449425
The tcg is probably the only thing that still has kids in it due to the retarded trend from years prior where Logan Paul and others started buying Pokemon cards in masses

>>723449108
Not sure what you’re getting at. The overall tone of the Pokémon anime is pretty consistent between Japanese and English. Digimon, on the other hand, had its tone completely wrecked in the dub. It turned into a nonstop stream of jokes, even during serious moments.

>>723449543
I hate to break it to you Anon, but Pokemon scalpers like Logan Paul are all adults.

>>723449591
>Le Pokemon respected le content!
>JELLY DOUGHNUTS XD

pokefags should burn

>>723449498
Yeah Pokemon World was complete shit. No kid in the demographic was going to understand its convoluted systems to have a pokemon live long much less long enough evolve into something cool. the learning moves was ASS. The stat-ups was a less charming (or fun) Monster Rancher, and the combat was ass. I eventually gamesharked that shit to see if I missed out on any sort of story but NOPE.

The first season of Digimon anime was epic. The OST with Butterfly and Braveheart was golden, it had more drama and peaks compared to Pokemon. And for children show the bad guy digimon coming to the real world and casting magic fog over Tokyo while Ravel's Bolero played was absolute kino.

I'm sorry americans got botched version with inferior music

>>723440701 (OP)
Define success.

>>723449281
>Honestly if you think Pokemon RBY and GSC sucked then I don't care enough to argue with you further. Sorry.
Based poketard

>>723449665
digimon was marketed to BOYS while pokemon was marketed to KIDS.
also hey digimon slander will NOT stand, infidel

>>723449498
>Uhm acshually the game is really good you just didn't get it cause you had attitude
No, you didn't get it because you were a dumb kid with no patience. We get it. That's why you had pokemon on your handheld: a game that held your hand so tightly that it was impossible to truly lose.

>>723449652
My friend, who was a huge digimon nerd, got the game for his birthday and we played for an hour before getting bored and popping in twisted metal. I don't think he ever touched it again lmao

>>723449778
Sorry Anon, but the game sucked. No need to be contrarian about it. There's other good digimon games out there you can defend, but instead you choose to die on this hill. Pathetic.

>>723449646
I don’t think you’ve actually watched either show. I’m out.

>>723449875
i accept your concession.

I remember back then I thought the main difference between pokemon and digimon was that digimon talked instead of just saying various parts of their own name
Why didn't this difference make a big impact among audiences?

>>723449753
>also hey digimon slander will NOT stand, infidel

>>723449471
the memes are made by the ignorant, digimon are not what you see they are the code/digicore that makes them up. thats why they can reincarnate into eggs

being a modern day digimon fan could be the only thing more embarrassing than being a modern day pokemon fan.

>>723440701 (OP)
Bandai Namco's retarded

>>723442929
The big memed example of Digimon evolution not making sense is Gatomon's line, and yeah it doesn't make any sense. Most of the other Digimon lines you could clearly see how they built off each other.

Agumon (small dinosaur) > Greymon (big dinosaur) > MetalGreymon (big cyborg dinosaur) > WarGreymon (humanoid dinosaur with armor)
Gabumon (small monster with a wolf pelt) > Garurumon (big wolf) > WereGarurumon (werewolf) > MetalGarurumon (metal wolf)
Biyomon (small bird) > Birdramon (big flaming bird) > Garudamon (bigger bird) > Pheonixmon (another big bird)
Tentomon (small bug) > Kabuterimon (big bug) > MegaKabuterimon (bigger bug) > HerculesKabuterimon (another big bug)
Gomamon (small aquatic monster) > Ikkakumon (big walrus) > Zudomon (bigger Walrus that can stand up) > Vikemon (big Viking walrus)

>>723447562
I wish I was as cool as her when I was that age.

>>723443349
>The dub fiasco
Yeah, just like it killed interest in Yugioh and Pokemon? Get real.

>The TCG got annihilated by Upper Deck
This one is true.

>Merchandising was a disaster. Toys were inconsistent
Fuck are you on about? The toys were great.

>Manga, audio dramas, side stories?
Again, this is exactly the same as Yugioh and Pokemon

>Instead of building a consistent identity, it felt like a soft reboot every year
So like Yugioh.

>Timing killed it too. By the time Digimon Adventure 02 wrapped, Pokémon had already cemented itself as *the* monster-taming franchise in the west
"Monster taming"? Pokémon is a monster collector, Digimon is a franchise based on a Vpet.

tl;dr you and every other armchair analyst thinks Digimon "failed" because you compare its successes to Pokémon, which is completely fucking retarded. Pokémon's success is an outlier, an anomaly unlike any other children's media fucking ever. It is absurd to treat that as the bar for success, because by that metric, NO OTHER children's entertainment can be called a mistake.

>>723450136
>caring about what others think of you
you need to be over 18 to post anon

When I was a kid I thought digimon all ending with -mon was extremely lame and is the main reason I avoided it

>>723450185
you've not touched digimon in forever i guess. all of them can just turn into weird shit.

>>723440701 (OP)
too complex for kids, pokemon was more accessible, beat pokemon throw ball and done

>>723450205
called a success*

>>723450253
It's a file extension.

>>723443349
I've been comparing the dubs of season 2. English is fucking abysmal. I think they were told not to have a single second of silence under any circumstance, someone is always quipping, making puns, ruining moody atmosphere and making light of fucked up shit.

>>723447496
Digimon had significantly more memorable characters and it's not even close.

Ever notice how the most cancerous Digimon threads are always the ones started by Adventurefags who are pathologically incapable of discussing the series without bringing up Pokemon?

>>723450321
thats head cannon and unconfirmed

I recently rewatched 02 for the first time in like 20 years and I'm blown away by the fact that people, my younger self included, actually like BlackWarGreymon because he's the most shallow and annoying piece of shit and the series of episodes about him and the fuckin sacred stones or whatever is like bottom 5 story arcs in any digimon series. He's not even cool until he kills himself. Maybe the dub makes him seem cooler, I dunno.

maybe i am a nostalgiafag but the dub of digimon ruled. elvis etemon ruled. fuck you weebs.

>>723450321
It's not a file extension, it's a carry over from Tamogotchi's gimmick of ending every character's name with -tchi or -chi

>>723450265
Digimon have branching evolution paths. The main evolution lines in the show all made sense except for Gatomon's.

>>723450082
>memes are made by the ignorant
Could just isolate this statement, it's mostly true on its own. Memes catch on BECAUSE they're ignorant and dismissive most of the time, rarely because they're true. Truth is boring.

>>723450185
The real thing is Digimon doesn't have singular lines like Pokemon does. Digimon have divergent paths for Digivolution, which results in some of the silliness that I've only seen memed on as an adult years later.

It serves an important story purpose in the shows and the pet sim games where a Digimon's treatment or emotions causes it to Digivolve differently. The SkullGreymon moment is one of the most significant examples, along with Megidramon in Tamers.

>>723450421
I'm still torn to this day
On the one hand, Butterfly
But on the other, Hey Digimon

>>723450420
>I recently rewatched 02 for the first time in like 20 years and I'm blown away by the fact that people, my younger self included, actually like BlackWarGreymon because he's the most shallow and annoying piece of shit and the series of episodes about him and the fuckin sacred stones or whatever is like bottom 5 story arcs in any digimon series.
02 just falls apart at the end. Which was supposed to be his big character moments but it turned into the part that the story suffered the most in.
>>723450398
This was started by a false-flagging pokefag you cretin, just like all the shitty digimon threads. OP may as well end with "Digicucks how can we ever recover" because that's the level of false flag.

>>723450329
To be extremely fair, the Japanese audio is extraordinarily silent. No music, very little foley work, no dialog, often times just a still image of a background with positively nothing to engage the viewer.

Make no mistake, I highly value moments of silence; Half-Life 2 has one of my favorite scores in all of video games and 90% of the time there is no music at all. But the old seasons of Digimon feel downright unfinished.

>>723450398
>Ever notice how the most cancerous Digimon threads are always the ones started by Adventurefags
you mean like the pokenigger who made the OP post?
Everyone else is enjoying Time Stranger.

>>723450406
I don't care.

pokemon wasn't a great watch even as a kid because you'd already played the games. you know what would evolve into what.
digimon however nobody knew shit. every new evolution was hype and the talk of recess. i remember going nuts with the boys when armor evolutions happened.

>>723450543
>This was started by a false-flagging pokefag you cretin
No, it's a phenomenon I've seen over and over again and not just on 4chan. Tamers fans, both Frontier fans, Savers fans, the one Xros Wars fan, Appmon fans and Ghost Game fans can all discuss Digimon on its own merits, while Adventurefags seemingly have nothing to talk about but their own nostalgia and Pokemon. It's really annoying and is the reason why the whole fanbase is stereotyped as having an inferiority complex.

>>723450420
BlackWarGreymon has a solid concept/story. He's born a living weapon and is so powerful the heroes can't defeat him. Instead they try talking to him, and eventually he has an existential crisis because he was made only to obey orders and destroy but actually has free will. That inner turmoil drives him into a mad rampage looking for meaning and almost destroying the Digital World in the process. Eventually he self-actualizes and chooses to sacrifice himself for the good of others.

It's a great example of more complex storytelling that's still appropriate for kids. The first three seasons of the Digimon anime were good at that, where the characters have some more depth and there's some greater themes to plots but nothing that's too complicated for a younger audience.

>>723450205
>Fuck are you on about? The toys were great.
No, no they weren't. Both the release of toys and their quality was constantly fluctuating. Just look at this thing, it looks like a happy meal toy.

>>723450732
>the one Xros Wars fan

>>723450421
The Digimon dub has its merits. I think it should be treated as a Ghost Stories situation.
Incidentally, the orchestral version of the Adventure theme is actually great and gets me excited every time it comes on.

>>723450971
It's a transforming toy you retard. They were extremely popular.

>>723450678
Zenith is such a dork.

>>723450732
>Appmon fans
Way to outed yourself nigger, nobody watched that horrible spin-off

>>723448118
>Meanwhile, the Digimon card game, of which the most popular anime season was dedicated to advertising, was absent in most of the west. You could not find it in a store until multiple years after Tamers ended. Thanks scamdai.
This must have been a Euro problem, because I distinctly remember collecting the cards during Adventure's run. I probably still have those cards somewhere at my parents' house.

>>723451086
Not the point you fucking moron, the point is that it's a low quality toy.
Transforming figures that actually have good proportions were figured out years before that mess was made.

>>723451202
nah he's right. i had them in my state but like for every 100 pokemon packs there was 1 digimon

>>723440701 (OP)
There's multiple reason, but it mostly boils down to a lack of consistency.

The digimon games are a mixed bag in terms of quality, and pretty much every single one is completely different from each other, so if someone is going to buy a digimon game without doing research they're probably going to get annoyed when it's not like the ones they liked. When you buy a Pokemon game you know exactly what you're getting, quality be damned.

Second issue is with the anime also being completely different from each other, 02 being the only one that directly takes place in the same universe as the previous anime. From a marketing perspective it means once one anime finishes it gives a clear break point for people to stop paying attention to the digimon anime, and most of the time the stuff that drew them in for one series will most likely not be present in the next. It's not like something like Yugioh, where even if they change to a completely different univeres there's still the core cardgame that people can latch onto as an anchor. Even the mechanics of the digimon themselves tend to change between series.

If I was a bamco exec I wouldn't know how to fix this issue since they already tried going back to nostalgia pandering and it didn't work. They basically have to hope one of their new series finds an audience and then once they do they need to keep hold of it by just continuing with that specific universe.

>>723451145
This is your card game protagonist btw

>>723450981
how handsome!

>>723451270
not really. this wasn't long after the beast wars figs and those were guaranteed to break in either the paper thin accessories or the connector pegs.

>>723440701 (OP)
Digimon isn't even THAT popular in Japan, it's just a modest success like other smaller but more successful franchises. It was never meant to be a Pokemon-level titan.

>>723450205
Every single point you’ve made is either wrong or irrelevant to what I was saying.
Just to be clear, I’m not comparing it to Pokémon’s success. I’m pointing out the reasons why Digimon never took off in the West despite having the potential to be extremely popular, and how Pokémon completely overran its target market in the US.
If you aren’t from the US, you wouldn’t have noticed that at all unless you were importing Digimon merch from here (which would be strange). Digimon is actually more popular in other regions, mostly because it was handled better worldwide compared to what we got in the states.

>>723449260
You are letting gamefreaks modern shittiness color your view of the past. Kids got obsessed with the pokemon brand because of the game. You're arguing that a game designed to be popular among child was bad because it was popular among children. They turned a ton of those kids into lifelong customers and coasted off of the first 2 gens, never innovating again and still making money.

>>723451350
>this wasn't long after the beast wars figs
Anon, it was a three year gap. We aren't talking game development here, for toys that's an eternity and the durability isn't the topic, it was the proportions and the beast wars toys had proportionate shell forming down from the start.

>>723440701 (OP)
because it's being viewed as a cheap knockoff

>>723451289
>Second issue is with the anime also being completely different from each other,
This is a non-issue. It didn't hurt Yu-Gi-Oh or Beyblade or anything else. The Teraleak revealed that the only thing stopping Pokemon from doing the same was one autistic executive who refused to let the staff move on from Ash no matter how much they begged him to because he personally feared change.
And for the record, keeping the same protagonist didn't stop the TrAshnime from still flopping hard during its absolute worst seasons like Johto and Best Wishes. Meanwhile, the new series has been successful without Ash. What the audience wants is a good show whether the cast remains static or not.

>>723445652
>>723445750
Pokedrone delusions

>>723451289
>They basically have to hope one of their new series finds an audience and then once they do they need to keep hold of it by just continuing with that specific universe.
No, this is actual cancer. Why do you think each mainline pokemon game has to introduce new regions and mechanics? Or why the Legends series even exists. This even applies to the Ashnime where they had to keep introducing new elements to each season before eventually ending it and starting with a whole new protagonist and scenario.

The only consistency needed for Digimon is in the video games. The anime and manga being different allow for greater diversity in terms of plot and scenario and doing otherwise severely limits the type of stories you can tell, only the basics of human + digimon relationship = growth is needed.

Literally no other metafranchise like Gundam or Kamen Rider sticks with the same scenario or universe over and over as that is actual stagnation.

>>723451883
>Literally no other metafranchise like Gundam or Kamen Rider sticks with the same scenario or universe over and over as that is actual stagnation.
Come on, you're really going to use Gundam as an example when every other series is UC? Even GQuuuuuuX is an alternate timeline UC.

>>723440701 (OP)
inconsistent mechanic between games
shitty lifespan system
mon's design not toddler friendly

>>723449234
>whole point is that data leads to non-linear evolution
>HURRR Y IS It DIFFERENT
love this tism

>>723449591
it didn't, you seem to think Digimon isn't a children's show devoid of any comedy in Japan

>>723452156
Gundam has multiple timelines not just UC
UC series are very distinct from one another due to taking place in different time periods not specifically in or around the OYW. Such is the massive difference between the first three anime and Crossbone Gundam.
Even series based around the OYW are very different from one another and each of them have unique features not present anywhere else. You cannot tell me in good faith that Blue Destiny, Gundam Sentinel, War in a Pocket and MS Igloo are similar to each other.

>>723451270
The 'point' was that digimon wasn't a success because its toys weren't a success: both claims are demonstrably false, whether or not you like that particular toy. You are a simpleton with a narrow world view.

>>723451472
>Just to be clear, I’m not comparing it to Pokémon’s success
I am not wasting one more nanosecond humoring such an intellectually dishonest faggot.
Bye retard.

pokemon = hell yeah cool lil doods
digimon = trans allegory
monster rancher = godsim

>>723452469
>intellectually dishonest
Bro, it’s a kids’ show. You’re acting weird.

>>723446628
I hate this piece of shit like you wouldn't believe.
>>723447097
>achieves Ultimate evolution off-screen
Even when he's not there he manages to make everything worse.

>>723440701 (OP)
It was a success though. The games were ads for the vpets then the anime

Until frontier...

>>723440701 (OP)
Digimon had this trend where it was trying to "grow up".....sometimes. You went from Digimon Tamers to what ever season 4 was to Digimon Savers/Data Squad where it featured a protag that likes to punch digimon in the face. Felt like it didn't know what it was marketing for.

Also the early games suck. Sorry, when kids wanted a digimon game, they wanted something like an adventure from the show. Not having to take your pet to the bathroom to shit every 30 minutes. Tamogachis were okay as a cheap plastic toy, not a full fleshed video game.

Cybersluts and Time Stranger were like 10-20 years too late.

>>723452387
>UC series are very distinct from one another due to taking place in different time periods not specifically in or around the OYW
That's quite literally irrelevant because they all happen in the same universe and reference the major events in someway whether it's the OYW, Gryps or Second Neo Zeon war.
Not to mention your claim wasn't that they felt different, it was that they don't revisit universes over and over.

Kamen rider also generally occurs in one universe with a handful of exceptions like the AR worlds and Build's World which was rolled in by the end anyway.

>>723443003
I love Submarimon too I got one in Time Strangers and used it to swim around. You can actually get inside his cockpit like the anime.

>>723440701 (OP)
>Digimon succeed with western audiences
Digirap. Seriously

>>723448118
>Bandai did this really retarded thing where they went all-in on a shitload of Card genres at once instead of picking one and focusing on it
They are still doing that, they have 4 TCGs running against each other at the same time, two of which are different flavors of dragon ball.

>>723452889
>Felt like it didn't know what it was marketing for.


Lol wut? It was clearly obviously just trying to target boys wirh cool monsters.

OH YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BUY YOUR DGIMON TO SHIT IN 5 HOURS BEFORE IT NEEDS TO SHIT?
SHITMON
OH YOU DIDN'T KNOW TO TARGET ARBITRARY STAT SPREADS?
SHITMON
OH YOU STEPPED 1/4TH A SCREEN TO FAR AND AGGRO'D A STRONG DIGIMON FROM TWO SCREENS TO ONE SHOT YOU?
SHITMON

DIGIMON WORLD IS EASILY ONE OF THE MOST OVER HYPED MEGA SHIT GAMES EVER.

>>723440701 (OP)
I recently rewatched 02. Man I still love the first half of it but i didn't remember the ending and few last episodes being such clusterfucks. I still think it has the hypest moments (namely DNA evos) and best cast (Yolei and Kari are top qts) as well as better music overall. But the ending couldnt be worse

>>723452915
It is relevant because not all of them use the same scenario of the OYW for their stories and my claim was
>same scenario or universe
Despite taking place in the same universe various UC entries are very different to their contemporaries and only make references but are entirely seperate otherwise. Crossbone and F91 focus on very different conflicts for instance while Reconguista is incredibly far removed from everything else.

>Kamen rider also generally occurs in one universe
It doesn't until Zio hilariously enough because rider histories conflict with one another.

>>723440701 (OP)
But Digimon did succeed with Western audiences, at least during the first few years of the anime. It was popular and well received, and still beloved with those who watched it.
If you want to compare it to Pokemon, pokemon was first and was instantly a massive hit. Digimon came later and was only modestly popular in comparison. Pokemon was so huge that it was going to have staying power from the very beginning no matter what. Digimon was in much flimsier ground, neither the games nor the anime were even close to pokemon to begin with in popularity, so after the newer anime weren't as good as the first ones then it kinda just faded away.

>>723453450
this creature is cute

>>723443294
I watched Angewomon stuff the other day and I was surprised how in EN even the digievolution theme changes into that crap
Meanwhile for latam they just had a different version of the original for the OP and left everything else as it was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOuHn6eiyjI

>>723453492
>and my claim was
>>same scenario or universe
Anon, you're using "or" as an alternative for "and".
They're not the same word.
>Despite taking place in the same universe various UC entries are very different to their contemporaries
Again, quite literally irrelevant. It's still using themes, referring to events, mechanics and whatnot exclusive to UC like Minovsky particles and newtypes. The F91 Gundam is a Gundam designed for newtypes.

>while Reconguista is incredibly far removed from everything else.
It doesn't matter how far removed it is, it was explicitly envisioned as a UC setting after all of the countless wars. It's still reliant on it even on the conceptual level.

>It doesn't until Zio hilariously enough because rider histories conflict with one another.
Not really, you only get into issues with Decade anything else is usually because an actor couldn't reprise a role and they had to write a story around it and that causes the inconsistency.

>>723443845
>like BlackWarGreymon's existential crisis.
still mad

>>723445652
I agree. I think a lot of people started looking around for alternatives after the release of SwSh. Even more people after Scarlet

>>723446495
This character was insufferable.

>>723447361
I love these

>>723455119
kids will understand

>>723454520
>Anon, you're using "or" as an alternative for "and".
"And" would mean both are true simultaneously, "or" means either.
>Again, quite literally irrelevant
Newtypes aren't exclusive to the UC and the general premise is used in other series like with Innovators in 00 or X-Rounders in AGE. Evolved humans with heightened capacity for understanding is a general concept and not so much of a needed story beat seeing the slew of stories set in UC that also don't use it. It's more or less akin to having a masked rival in each series.
>It's still reliant on it even on the conceptual level.
Reconguista has very little to do previous UC works beyond being at the end of the timeline, it still being reliant on it on that level is per the nature of a metaseries as opposed to anything inherent in Reconguista itself.
>Not really
Agito and thus Kuuga cannot coexist with Blade
Kabuto cannot coexist with any other series
Ryuki is nebulous because it takes place over multiple timelines
Hibiki, Ghost and Kiva cannot coexist with each other

>>723453450
Fun fact they were going to make the big bad a Digimon that looked like Ken's brother who dismembered himself and threw his body parts as bombs until he shrunk smaller and smaller until he became nothing but an idea. But they wouldnt let them do it so they went with Okinawa and Arachbemon and Mummymon who were supposed to be God Adam and Eve.

>>723455119
the most accurate so far.

>>723440701 (OP)
The biggest mystery to me is how Pokemon got so big. I remember having some of the cards as a kid because I didn't want to be left out but I never saw the appeal.

>>723450732
Stealing the eternal ressentment and cope of hoenniggers over missing out, are we? Pathetic.

>>723456315
>threw his body parts as bombs until he shrunk smaller and smaller
Pretty much what happens in that terribly schizophrenic American movie when Cherubimon throws his arm at Angewomon before crumbling into magic black balls.

>>723455535
I had a post written up but the page refreshed on me.
I'll say this though since my original comparison brought it back to digimon,
>Evolved humans with heightened capacity for understanding is a general concept and not so much of a needed story beat seeing the slew of stories set in UC that also don't use it.
Evolved humans as a concept doesn't mean that they're the same evolved human, that ignores the themes, creation and mechanics of each.
It's like saying every digivice is the same because they can facilitate evolution and scanning cards, being human made, being a digital manifestation, merging human and Digimon etc doesn't matter.

>>723455007
No u

>>723451709
Its not about just the protag though
Yugioh and Yugioh GX were still set in the same universe. Aside from the cameos of Yugi the rules worked them same, the tech worked broadly the same, etc.
Pokemon is still set in the same world and everything in that world works the same
By the time they hit 5ds Yugioh was well established as a game and the game itself could carry the franchise.

>>723440701 (OP)
Because Pokemon kept the same guy In an unending adventure (Ash)
Digimon failed at not keeping the same guys and the adventures were tiny...for such a massive world

>>723456605
Every digivice IS the same general concept of a device that physically connects humans and digimon together saying this doesn't invalidate the specifics which are by a series per series basis, even an Applidriver shares this same basic concept despite obvious differences as they're all derived from the physical vpet series and is part of the franchise's identity.

It's like how FF reuses summons and jobs but uses them differently depending on the specific context of the game they're being used in.

>>723443349
>All Japan‑only.
Italy got the v-tamer manga shortly after

>>723457624
>Every digivice IS the same general concept of a device that physically
NTA but the point is that concept =/= object.
A tyre and a gear both take the principle of spinning round object but do different things.
>It's like how FF reuses summons and jobs but uses them differently depending on the specific context of the game they're being used in.
That's.... That's the point.
Same concept, different thing. You're not going to say aeons are the same as the eidolons or GFs even though they use the same concept are you?
That's why the Gundam evolved humans and the separate digivices aren't the same thing despite using the same core concept.

Been watching the animes and I like them.
I feel bad I never gave them enough attention back when they were somewhat new.
I guess Pokemon is way more kid friendly while the animes do have more grown up themes, more aimed at like teenager I think,

>>723457917
Huh, didn’t even know V‑Tamer ever had an official release outside Japan. Neat!

>>723440701 (OP)
America had the sabotaged soundtrack, this is the reason and no one will convince me otherwise

>pokemon red release date: 1998
>pokemon anime air date: 1998
>digimon world US release date: 2000
>digimon adventures US air date: 1999
It was over before it even begun. Literally nothing digimon could have done would have avoided it's fate of being "lesser pokemon" simply by virtue of coming out later. How could there be any other outcome when there are fucking grocery items with pokemon plastered all over them?

>>723442821
>The Anime hardly stood out.
Mate, Adventure is in its own right a great show. What are you smoking, its unbelievable how they cooked with the first season and the sole reason Digimon is still around.