Thread 723442339

Yeah, that's the good stuff.

>>723442339 (OP)
>boot up doom
>it starts instantly
>don't have to watch a cutscene
>don't need to know the story
>start killing shit
yeah based

op you couldn't clear 90s slaughter wads i guarantee it

>>723442339 (OP)
>boot up doom
>kill demons
Easy as

>>723442339 (OP)
Thanks faggot, you remind me that I could be playing DOOM instead of browsing this shit website. Bye stupids.

>>723442339 (OP)
Hell yeah

>>723442339 (OP)
Yep, look at that shotgun blast. They really don't make 'em like this anymore.

>>723442339 (OP)
nice shitty source port faggot

>>723443226
>Slaughter wads
Gee, I sure love sprinting in circles around the room until all the enemies infight each other to death.

>>723443867
if it's so easy, then do it
zoomie

>>723442339 (OP)
>leftover pellets continue past the first target on to whatever's behind it
Why do modern game shotguns keep doing it the realistic way and not the objectively fun way?

>>723442339 (OP)
I can hear this gif

>>723443769
yeah that's UZDoom

I just love how many WADs that change or introduce new weapons, leave the Super Shotgun intact.

>>723446431
Ah yes, the tranny port of choice!

>>723446103
>I can hear this gif
og sound or psx sound?

>>723448356
You know, I've never actually touched the PS1 version, maybe I should give it a playthrough for the lulz

>>723448593
Depending on the version, the levels are gutted, have less enemies and abysmal framerate. There should be a mod to get its sound (which is the only good thing about the psx version) on the og wads

>>723442339 (OP)
If that were a modern game the shotgun would only ohko the front guy if the crosshair was directly on the head at point blank

>>723448768
Getting Doom 2 enemies mixed in to Doom 1 levels on UV is cool.

>>723448894
and you wouldn't be able to carry more than 10 shells and you'd have to drop it to pick up any other weapons

>>723448983
>>723448894
>getting angry at fictional, hypothetical situations
You must be fun at parties.

>>723443226
Slaughter wads aint that hard, but wads like magnolia are pure suffering that modern zoomies are not ready for

>>723448356
>psx
>>723448768
>psx
no

>>723442339 (OP)
SUPAH SHOTGAH

>>723442339 (OP)
Yeah, its pretty fun. To this day, no game has had a better shotgun.

Decent challenge if you don't savescum levels. I heard Sigil II was decently challenging, I only played the first one with minimal doom experience and had to retry some levels many times

>>723448768
The framerates aren't that bad for the time, and I think the colored lighting and added enemies makes up the cut down levels.

>>723448768
Well if I'm going to try it, I'd rather try it as it was presented, I was already planning on giving 1+2 a run through for spooky month anyway

>>723449084
Thanks I'm glad you think so

>>723449171
I just call it the psx when I'm writing. If we were actually talking, id call it la plei

Blood is the best boomer shooter its not even close

>>723442339 (OP)
Hitscanner enemies are garbage and nothing will ever change my mind on this.

>>723449451
>I'd rather try it as it was presented
go for it then, just be aware of its limitations

>>723443226
Were there slaughter WADs in the 90s? I thought it was a recent thing, especially as the monster amounts would wreck performance on actual 90s hardware

>>723450140
the first slaughter wad is literally plutonia

>>723450178
That's pushing it, there is one level in it that's kinda slaughter-y (Go 2 It). And it's probably small for modern slaughter sensibilities, at only 206 enemies

UT2004 Instagib, home

>>723442339 (OP)
yeah, unironically

i've been grinding the battlepass in quake champions and i have to do dumbass shit like ringout enemies 10 times in unholy trinity
but can't find games at all

>>723442339 (OP)
>enemies flash a soiface at you before they attack
obviously I would enjoy killing them.

>>723442339 (OP)
This but unironically. I love Doom.

>>723442339 (OP)
Yes
if Refueling Base from pistol start doesn't get your blood pumping, you may be gay

>>723442339 (OP)
it's one of those games where the weapons feel perfect.

>>723442339 (OP)
I pick the 2nd easiest diffuculty, cos I dont wanna keep quickloading all the time.
Doom is the most fun experience with low difficulty, especially because difficulty does not affect monster hp in doom, only yours

>>723451387
in most boomer shooters your the WEAPON damage increases with each difficulty so a lot of the times the highest difficulty is easier than the 2nd highest

>>723451387
If you aren't going to play nightmare, UV might as well be the default difficulty.

>>723442339 (OP)
Just record you moving from point A to point B with "-turbo 10" if you're going to shitpost about it being slow.

bump

>>723442339 (OP)
I played Doom only with cheat codes.

>>723451345
every kill is satisfying

>>723448768
Nigga, just picrel

>>723443119
100% this.
Sick of every fucking game taking 5min to load, fucking 10min matchmaking then getting locked into a 90min match that permabans me if I leave it early.

>>723442339 (OP)
Yes.

>>723442339 (OP)
Yeah and?

>>723451625
That's just factually wrong for Doom. The damage is the same for everyone on all difficulties except on ITYTD, where the damage from monsters to the player is halved. The difficulties are all about ammo, item and monster placement.

>>723442339 (OP)
No one is forcing you to play old games zoomer-kun, I dont know why you feel the need to fit in so bad

>>723442339 (OP)
What makes mulatto perm zoomers bait so weak?

>>723442339 (OP)
The original levels are braindead, sure, but try a modern wad on UV and see how well you do. Besides, Doom is a no nonsense game that just throws you into the action, gives zero fucks about story outside of text crawls you can skip every 8 or so levels and is the FPS genre in its simplest form.

I think I will play Hedon some more.

>>723459320
>cod millenicuck pretending to be a doom fan
lmao

>>723456124
>he needs training wheels to understand the numbers on the HUD

>>723442339 (OP)
>shotgun so good it kills the dude behind him too
They don't make 'em like this anymore

mfw playing ashes 2063

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPUvUC-u4bg

Im having fun with Sunder map 21. Looks absolutely stunning

>>723451345
>it's one of those games where the weapons feel perfect.
The pistol and the chaingun are absolutely horrid to use because of their shit damage and even more shit sound.

>>723443226
you will never be a woman

For me, it's Aliens: Eradication

>>723460385
My man
https://youtu.be/jQru9NcaAfM?si=Oxjiooo_zQh5BaI7

>>723450140
There were, but they sucked. Hell Revealed was the big name back then, but from modern perspective only four or so maps (22/24/25/32) were any decent. Other WADs were either HR but even worse or Go 2 It ripoffs.

>>723450140
>>723450178
>>723450305
>>723460598
Base Doom 2 has that map which is just like 2 small buildings and hundreds of enemies in a big open area. I can't remember the name of it, but that one was basically the prototype slaughter map.

>>723443226
Lmao all the chuddies seething at this post, proof they don't play video games and just seethe when their Brahman dies

>>723456376
your problem is playing multiplayer games, retard

>>723450536
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jADCNfe_aYo
Come home white man. You do not need a battlepass to find fulfillment

>>723442339 (OP)
Watched a MyHouse.WAD video and got a bit nostalgic, so I booted brutal doom up and had the most fun I've had in a while. Modern shooters could only wish the amount of SOVL boomer shooters have.

>never played FPS in my life
>played doom eternal and loved it
>simply ask /v/ what other games are like it
>get 500 posts of utter insanity for daring to ask about a videogame on /v/

>>723460910
>no lobby

>>723461027
>doom eternal
reported

>>723461027
why lie?

>>723461110
???
I'm not

>>723450140
people will argue for plutonia, other casali levels and various similar inspirations
but i'd argue the genre truly started to exist in ~2005
this is around the time where the genre evolved from just throwing every monster and the kitchen sink, to more restricted and selected compositions (ie just 2-3 types working together). which coupled with the monster count made for punishing scenarios that demanded you flex different tactical skills than usual
erik alm (scythe / scythe 2) was a pioneer on that gameplay front
insane gazero (sunder) came and marked spirits with his huge abstract layouts
the two of them and the latter especially inspired a whole new batch of mappers who took the mantle and built slaughter gameplay to new heights

>>723461027
>eats literal feces
>"guys this shit is so good. Can you reccomend me more of it?"

>look into the "boomer shooters" on steam
>skip all the ones that look fucking awful
>skip the ironic ones
>skip the "aw man member" ones
Wow there's nothing left

>>723461182
No I wasn't talking about Ninja Gaiden 2 or Tekken

>>723461197
cultic is nice

>>723461127
No way doom eternal is your first FPS. Unless you are actual normalfags.
And if it really is, you should play video games for at least 5 more years before posting here.

>>723461258
I just played other genres before FPS, no need to be upset

>it's a new blood WOAH DUDE WE ARE SO HECKIN WACKY AND PUNK BUT ALSO IRONIC episode
Getting tired of this rerun

>>723461284
How can I not be upset? You must have lived such a dull and sad life for so long, it's heartbreaking really.
I implore you to close the thread asap and go play some vidya games!

Not even replying to a post so retarded as "the only genre that exists is FPS"

Am I missing something with the Serious Sam games or are they really that dull?

>>723461541
Do you play on Serious?

>>723461541
Serious Sam games are basically paid versions of all the dumb slaughter wads for Doom

>>723461602
I don't

>>723461541
They were impressive back in the day for a seemingly massive levels and gazillion 3D enemies on screen. Had iconic designs too.

>>723461635
Well, try that. The game is fun when you have to come up with strategies to survive the onslaught of enemies. Which game are you playing, The First Encounter? If yes, try at least the "Dunes" level. If it doesn't click after Dunes, it's not for you.

All of classic Doom is absolute dogshit except episode 1 and 4, No Rest for the Living and Legacy of Rust
Quake is an infinitely better Doom, it's Doom if it wasn't dogshit
The Doom series itself never rose above mediocrity except Doom Eternal

>>723442339 (OP)
Unc here, and I think Doom (1993) is still the best game ever made.

>>723461853
Crazy, no one gives a shit about a dog shit opinion

>>723442339 (OP)
Doom, Duke Nukem, Shadow Warrior, Blood. Can't go wrong with any of them.

I don't want to know anyone who doesn't like at least one of these games. I can be a little more forgiving towards how people feel about Heretic or Hexen. They're alright but don't stick out in my memory as much. And talking about Quake is like talking about a pretty considerable evolution by that stage. It plays differently so I speak about it differently.

>>723461870
bad garbage, do not discuss

>>723461853
Quake 1 levels are so dull tho
2 on psx was alright, mostly because it's short
Q4 is ok for memes

>>723451121
Speed of Doom was what got me back into Doom 2 back in the early 2010's.

>>723461027
>Doom Eternal as your first FPS
Ouch. It's not a bad game, but it's not a good introduction to them either because it's more of a character action game than a traditional FPS. I'd recommend something like Quake 1 but if you're the OP I think you were you also put in stupid requirements like "I won't play old games"

>>723462191
Arcane Dimensions
Rubicon Rumble
Alkaline
Mjolnir
Standalone maps like Oozing Blasphemy and Imhotep's Legacy
All insanely good, but they're mods/community maps. Quake had a troubled development and we're lucky it's as good as it is.

>>723442339 (OP)
that's actually a tough map later on

>>723461197
Project warlock and dusk are enjoyable.
For mods, brutal wolfenstein is challenging but fun.

Looks good, OP. Sorry you missed out on the golden age of games, internet, and media in general. Now please add a payment method to unlock your MTX lootbox lul

>>723443867
After-Doom has the best slaughter maps. One of the maps is a city filled with bosses

>>723451121
>Speed of Doom
Finally someone with good taste.
https://files.catbox.moe/xan6v9.mp4

>>723461027
Play Kaiser Campaign, its the only one mod different yet as good as the OG. https://youtu.be/a6Wi8x5kzMU?t=33

>>723461027
>>simply ask /v/ what other games are like it
None
Doom Eternal both uplifted and solved the FPS genre as a whole in the sense that bot even direct inspired clones like Postal and Ultrakill and successors like Dark Ages can live up to it. The genre literally doesn't get even close to being as good as the one outlier.
I'm serious when I'm saying you might as well wrap it up and quit playing anything except gimmicky arcade fps like Mullet Madjack and Devils Daggers or multiplayer titles

>>723461027
like i said earlier, quake champions
>>723460910
too late, already spent 20 hours grinding bots matches to bp lvl 80(100 is max)

>>723462042
Shut up normalfaggot retard
Classic Doom is trash and Quake is ten times above it
Quake is like classic Doom if it wasn't amateurish and badly made and if instead of having annoying and bad enemies it had fun and unique enemies
>Much better level
>Death Knight is a Hell Knight/Pinky hybrid that is actually competent and fun to dodge instead of retarded shotgun drain
>All melee attacks match a telegraphed animation
>Shambler is Archvile but stands out and can be more reliably staggered
>Vore is a Revenant but its projectile is much harder to avoid and does more damage, yet they are placed sensibly and force you to rotate arena rather than being chaingun stunlocked because a dozen of them popped up in a closet
>No hitscan trash
>Smart level design with good use of grenades
>Secrets are more than randomly mashing use on every wall
You could literally delete anything Doom before Doom Eternal and nothing would be lost.
The only good games id had made are Quake 1, Quake 3, Doom Eternal and maybe Doom the Dark Ages after the patches

>>723466092
>>Vore is a Revenant but its projectile is much harder to avoid and does more damage
yeah Vore sucks

>>723466092
QL LOBBY???

>>723466092
Quake was good for multiplayer, that's it.

>>723466168
No, it's actually great because it's used in a better way and the projectile can be dragged for infighting.
It also meant you didn't get 20 revenants in a single room in official maps
>>723466201
Filtered

Wow you just found out boomers are blinded by childhood nostalgia

>>723466273
Yeah, the guy crying over DOOM had indeed been filtered

>>723466273
>It also meant you didn't get 20 revenants in a single room
Isn't that sad? Blasting big hordes of enemies apart is fun.

>>723448356
PC Speaker

>>723466310
>jump around for a minute to kill 2 enemies
this is what low IQ retards think makes good fps gameplay?

>>723460808
Okay, nigger. Here's a multiplayer example:
>Boot up game
>Open server list
>See "Sneed's 24/7 autist pub, gaymap only"
>Click connect
>Start playing

>>723466584
Actual retard

>>723466789
yes, you were called one, no need to reinforce it

>>723466789
>Swap
>Swap
>Swap
>Swap
Yeah, no fucking thanks

Wow /v/ is retarded
Eternal threads proved that

>>723456376
>getting locked into a 90min match that permabans me if I leave it early
woomying my squid ass off

>>723466584
>>723466883
No one can take your criticism seriously when you play like this in boomer shitters

>>723467307
>doom eternal babby enternally mad at better shooters
man I would just kill myself if my life was this dogshit lmao

>>723467307
Imagine how mad the eternal zoomer was to make this webm

>>723465369
ultrakill started being made way before doom eternal and it also completely mogs it

So from what I can gather, anyone who likes anything is a casual babby faggot retard

>>723467404
>>723467418
>u-u mad bro
Its funny old farts cant come with any actual arguments to defend these dogshit games. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug

>>723443119
>literally thousands of hours of free content
>runs on literally anything

>>723467491
>eternal babby still seething
lmao honestly how are you still alive? your life must be pure torture

>>723443119
Unfortunately, nothing can maintain this arcade logic. Consider how the FPS revolution, caused mainly by Half Life, was precisely to remove this arcade style and place the player in the role of a Hollywood actor within a plot full of artificial set pieces created to make them feel like a hero.

>>723467307
>he used a mouse to record his footage
loooooool
look at this young boy
REAL MEN back then played keyboard only like it was intended by developers

>>723467479
Now that you know, fuck off.

>>723467684
Where's the Quack lobby?

You ever notice how people that like the games I like are cool, handsome, epic dudes, while people that like the games I don't like are cringe babby casual trannies? That's quite a coincidence

>>723467567
>still no argument just u mad bro on repeat
well looks like thats an end to the discussion, i know you're going to keep posting to try to get the last word in to feel like you won something so go ahead and say the last u mad bro

>>723467746
STAND AND FIGHT

>>723467913
>look at how not mad I am!
holy shit lmao eternal babbies are gifts that keep on giving

>>723467913
Concession accepted

>>723467787
trvke

>>723443119
I have the focus and attention span of a goldfish and I fully agree. I have no idea how even more ADHD riddled zoomers can concentrate on these boring slog movie games.

I just want to shoot things instantly. Fuck your story and your exposition.

>>723468021
lmao autists really say concession accepted as if he ever said anything

>>723468206
>I have no idea how even more ADHD riddled zoomers can concentrate on these boring slog movie games.
Because they don't have ADHD but you however do

>>723467307
>I wonder why anon records very first level of one of the very first full 3D FPS games on the lowest difficulty, it's like he don't actually want to compare the gameplay for some reason and is just an ill willed salty faggot mad that no one appreciates his First Person Simonsays
>naaah can't be I'm sure he's a honest poster

>>723467620
This is why Megabonk did so well
>boot it up
>starts right away, no slideshow of logos, cutscenes or intros
>hit play
>start killing things

>>723468275
so funny to read this when the primary anti-Eternal shitposting material is some guy purposefully missing a zombie on the first level with all guns cheat

>>723466092
Quake has no automap. Doom wins automatically for this alone. Quake's aesthetics totally mog Doom's though.

>>723468345
anti-Eternal shitposting is high-level gameplay of Eternal

>>723442339 (OP)
Doom 2 still has more soul than any slop shooter that comes out today, and I'm not even a boomer

>>723468274
They have worse attention spans than previous generations. So it baffles me how popular movie games are among them.

>>723468402
Beat me to it.

>>723468402
Nah, most anti-DE posters don't understand high level DE gameplay.

>>723468419
Its funny boomers cant actually describe nothing about why its better and just use buzzwords
>it has more SOUL, it has the SPIRIT, is has the PASSION

DOOM is shit with 2 frame animations and every cardboard cutout enemy dies the same and sound design sounds like it was recorded on a tiin can

>>723468495
Eternal has relatively low skill ceiling desu
you master dealing damage with swapslopping or shoot->punch->shoot extremely fast. With a decent portion of the arsenal you genuinely master it in 10 minutes
Everything else is mostly just being generically good at action games in general

>>723468434
>they have worse attention spans because i said so even though i push proved it wrong

>>723468660
>Eternal has relatively low skill ceiling
Sure thing retard
Post UltraNM clear

>>723468275
Then post gameplay that looks any different, higher difficulty doesn't change shit

>>723468660
Never said it's a good game or high ceiling or anything. Just saying, no one who posts shit like "simon says" has any idea of high level DE gameplay.

>>723468687
I cleared DE on UNM and I can't even quickswap.

>>723442339 (OP)
Doom is timeless

>>723442339 (OP)
yeah, why can't new games just do this?

>>723468687
i was content enough with beating the dlcs on nightmare on my first playthrough with only like 10 deaths thank you
i would rather have "this game is actually hard to beat a level without dying" than "the levels arent hard but you need to do them all in a row" if its gonna be a game that can burst you down

>>723467307
>loses half your health to 2 enemies
wow you are in trouble when there are 15 on the screen at one time all doing different things

>>723468735
the one thing agree with you is that eternal is the opposite of simon says for the most part
you can kill 9/10 the enemies with 9/10 the weapon swap combinations and in every case it feels exactly the same

>so youre at mediumish range to the enemy. do you wanna swap from ballista to super shotgun? or rocket to precision bolt? or....
it doesnt matter they both feel the same its just different numbers and ammo counters. you kill almost every enemy by just spamming some random choice for 1-2 seconds

>>723469082
yeah now that's a valid criticism of DE from somebody who actually played the game

>>723466092
>No hitscan
Uh, grunts?

>>723469050
>15 on the screen at one time
Lmao quake is known for bringing down enemy count, theres barely anything to worry about

>>723466092
>>No hitscan trash
Shambler's attack is (delayed) hitscan.

>>723442339 (OP)
>standing still
>one enemy alive
Looks fake, or all slow like Doom Eternal.

>>723469141
>valid criticism
Why announce yourself as a blind fanboy?

>>723469282
Literally why not?

>>723468618
Fun, to you, is pretending you're a hero in your own movie, which is why they made movie games specifically for autists like you. In reality you work at Target and your life is shit. But at least you get to be the e-hero in your own head every night while pretending to be wowed by every innocuous thing in your $70 slop title for your 4 discord viewers.
>WOW WHERE DID THAT GRENADEE COME FROM!?!!
>BRO THIS MAP IS SO LIT
>YOOOOO THIS GUY IS SO SWEATY HE KILLED ME AGAIN BRO
No one fucking cares, or ever will.

>>723442339 (OP)
I prefer Half Life

>>723461151
>but i'd argue the genre truly started to exist in ~2005
>this is around the time where the genre evolved from just throwing every monster and the kitchen sink, to more restricted and selected compositions (ie just 2-3 types working together)
Hell Revealed was 97 and Alien Vendetta was 2001 and they were both already doing that.

>>723469228
>t. lost entire stack to a grunt and a dog
i doubt you have the object permanence to dodge a vore or the reaction time to deal with a fiend

>>723469350
Sounds like projection

>>723442339 (OP)
are you implying that it isn't zoom zoom

>>723469439
All the enemies move slower than doom eternal enemies, Quake requires the reaction time of a 50 year old

>>723461151
>to new heights
Yet no one topped Sunder which is not even finished. Interesting.

>>723469553
If you like zoomer shooters so much then why dont you p-rank P-2 and 1-E on Brutal?

*laughs in quickload*

https://youtu.be/jg8up9B5bxk
thoughts?

>>723469725
>thoughts?
I don't watch gaytubers

>>723443226
Slaughter wads are for millennial tryhards who were 2 years old when Doom came out. Doom is meant to be a comfy weekend searching for keys featuring John Romero and Sandy Petersen while vibing to midi metal.

>>723468674
It's common knowlege

>>723469823
>Slaughter wads are for millennial tryhards who were 2 years old when Doom came out.

Or for people who are having a bad day and need to blow off some steam.

>>723470317
Settle down there Eric

>>723469834
>its common knowledge even though i have autism and dont know what common is

>>723470608
ADHD and Autism are more common now than they were when the original doom was released anon...
https://www.addrc.org/adhd-statistics/
You can stop pretending that isn't the case now...
We get it.
You're mentally disabled.

Is HDoom finished yet? Or are there still some enemies missing?

>>723470829
>ADHD and Autism are more common now than they were when the original doom was released
that's just because doctors are crooks and hacks who prescribe anyone who isn't a shambling corpse to be ADHD these days

>>723461027
average doom eternal fan lmao

>>723470975
Only the Arachnotron and Pain Elemental are missing. Unless he plans on also changing the weird ones like Wolfenstein SS and Commander Keen.

>>723470554
If you're referring to the Columbine shooters, they were fucking morons who didn't even read the Doom manual.

>>723467473
It was also very different in its initial release, a lot more bare bones, after Eternal came out a few things changed to make it more DOOM Eternally albeit thats obvious because Hakita is a fan of FPS in general and he likes 2016 and Eternal, the Regen in UK is a direct response to how it worked in 2016. However you are right in that its more like TItanfall x DMC than Quake as advertised

>>723443226
I bet you can't do it fist only on nightmare with infighting and friendly damage disabled

>>723473359
>getting rid of enemy infighting
Soulless.

>>723442339 (OP)
doom is the nortubel of id software

>>723472534
>Columbine shooters
I spent so long feeling bad for them, but feeling they got revenge on their tormentors at least. Then I found out they hunted down and murdered the other bullying victims instead of their tormentors out of some insane social darwinism belief and I immediately realized what scum they were.

>>723443226
>slaughter wads
>90s
retard

bump

DOOM is eternal
The shit that gets shat out after 3, that's doom

First person bullet hell type gameplay beats spastic nu movement

I was amazed to see how many women are interested in Doom. I saw a video about a recent source port drama (surprise! drama happening in an online community, who would have thought?) and a lot of the people criticizing some dev are "women". Lol. I could have sworn it was a source port for The Sims 1, not Doom.

>>723446661
hello saar. new chatgt code ready for your github saar.

>>723477120
It's almost like two losers who shot up a school were not good people.

>>723478558
nice bait, those are all trannies, every single one of them

UZDoom will actually be better than GZDoom since it was all of the same developers anyways. They just don't have the retard at the top who didn't care about it anymore bogging them down.

>>723480769
The guy can be a retard and this can also be an obvious troon hostile takeover, the fate of all open source projects.

>>723480769
Never underestimate other retards and their skill to out-retard the next retard. You don't know how bad Rachel or whoever is at being a big open-source project leader because you never seen him being a leader. People might crawl back to fucking chicken because the alternatives are even worse.

Can we talk about Slaughter maps?
As I see it, to qualify as a Slaughter map, you need a kill count in the hundreds spaced out in one of more fights.

These fights may be categorized as:
>Circle strafe
Bottom of the barrel in terms of design. I'm not going to elaborate further.
>Horseshoe Maneuver
Tactically speaking, they are all the same. You go from end to end until enough monsters died to either become a circle strafe fight or to make it to an exit.
>Puzzle
There is an intended way to go through this fight. While it may be possible to do it in an unintended way, these are either cheese, skips or have worse results than doing it the intended way.
>Tactical
Careful monster placement with no intended way to "solve" the fight. You're simply expected to power through.

Now the issues. Again, I'm going to ignore circle strafe fights:
Horseshoe maneuver fights I find them to be all the same. Only 3 things vary: Can I hold down the BFG or is it to be used only to clear my horseshoe path? Are there archviles that force me inside the horseshoe? Can the monsters infight?
Then only question that make these fights relatively fun are the archviles and even then they are not that great. If your fight can be described as "This is where you do the horseshoe maneuver" then you did not design a fight, you designed a chore.
Puzzle fights can be fun. However, the solution can be tedious or fun. It is horrible when the solution is to stay on a specific spot and hold down "shoot". You're playing a point and click adventure trying to find the correct pixel at that point. Puzzles are fun when they have you moving around doing things in some sort of logical order. As fun as they may be, they are one trick ponies. They suffer from low replayability.
Tactical fights are the best. Specially because you can replay them after months and approach them in an entirely different way. Bonus points if the ammo and pickups are tight.
Thoughts?

>>723480769
I read somewhere that dpjudas stuck with Graf.
It doesn't matter really because they'll just swap features anyway.