Thread 723507857

Why aren't video games taken seriously as a medium/art form, the same way that movies, literature, paintings, etc. are?

>>723507857 (OP)
Because video games have too much stuff that interrupts the viewer and can be done in more ways than what might be intended. They are also too much effort to plow through.

>>723507857 (OP)
The majority of the people who buy video games don’t consider them art or engage with them as if they were, unfortunately. The industry knows this and mostly makes products, not art.

Same reason sports aren't, it's an interactive medium, and interactive mediums are inherently less artistic. And yes Chess isn't art either btw, no matter how beautiful the chess pieces are, they're games.

>>723508338
>interactive mediums are inherently less artistic.
Why?

>>723508441
They're just always going to be used by some idiot that doesn't acknowledge the art. Its just the way it is.

>>723507857 (OP)
entertainment product
literature was the same way. reading used to be considered a lowly pass time
if enough gamedevs act like serious artists rather than business men while still finding success then the cultural perspective will change. issue is that being successful relies on playing the market
people need money to live. putting artistry over money is just a drawn out and convoluted suicide
I doubt the climate will ever change

>>723507857 (OP)
Because boomers aren't dead yet.

>>723507857 (OP)
the games that are actually art ask too much from the player. most normies are dogshit at games and can barely beat the tutorial of a movie game. to appreciate mushihimesama or something it would take them hours of grinding first with no guarantee of a result on their end.

>>723507857 (OP)
After years of being a Kojima-hater I played my first Kojimbo game in the form of pirated MGSV. I fell in love with its very unique gameplay style. The base building, the weapon options, the variety of ways one can approach the mission, and the highest difficulty playstyle being pure stealth/undetected. I easily rate it an 8.5/10. I know the story is somewhat wild/crazy but it's solid enough for me to care about continuing play.

This is coming from someone who played MGS1 in the 90s for 20 minutes and thinking it was pure shit.

>>723509408
funnily enough, thats how i felt trying it recently. it didnt just age bad, it was always shit.

>>723509801
>>723509408
never played the series but they all look like movie game garbage to me
tried metal gear for the famicom and didn't like it

>>723510079
The only ones worth playing are V, Delta, and if youre being nice, 4. The rest are way too clunky and a pain in the ass to control.

Theyre not a movie game like tlou though with all the forced walking and fake loading screen bullshit

>>723509408
If you can stomach just a bit more movie in your game, you might like Death Stranding. It ends with a marathon of cutscenes and begins with a fair amount of them too, but it’s an excellent game.

>>723507857 (OP)
because they're toys?

>>723510079
>tried metal gear for the famicom and didn't like it
That one’s a stinker for sure. The MSX version is much better but still not great.
The sequel, though? That’s a good one. The MSX version, again; not the NES one. They’re completely different games.

>>723510345
Toys can’t be art? Question mark?

>>723507857 (OP)
Imo videogames and movies are on par.
You get artsy farsty movies, you get artsy fartsy videogames, you get experimental movies, you get experimental videogames, you get shitty movies produced to milk an IP dry etc etc.

>>723510475
yes? because toys are for kids?

I think games could have the potential to be art, I think they just go about it the wrong way a lot of the time by trying to copy movies and other media, rather than utilizing the things that make the medium unique like player interactivity, that sort of thing.

It's probably more of a spectrum, some genres I think would lend themselves to being 'art' more than others. For example, live service shooter-slop would probably be far down the list, but I could see maybe some RPGs having a bit more of a leg to stand on, especially ones with branching narratives through choices the player makes, or in the gameplay with the builds and characters you make yourself

>>723510634
yes, but as a whole, society considers video games to be cheap entertainment for kids, even the more "artsy" ones.

>>723508338
There’s been more conventional art with an interactive aspect too. Hell, I’d argue all art is interactive to some extent since the purpose is to engage the audience.

>>723511693
they got filtered and are coping

>>723507857 (OP)
Because they are not as good?

Have you seen Metal Gear Solid 3 Subsistence? its at best a C tier movie quality, it actually reminds me of The Expendables.

>Retarded story
>Retarded villain
>Dumbass plot twists
>Nonsensical action scenes
>All that matters is style and shooting.. e.g getting out of a place just before the bomb goes off
>Cheap fan-service bait


This shit doesn't get more than C in films and literature
Kojima is simply a budget Hollywood action director at best

>>723507857 (OP)
All complaints made about viddy as a hobby are from those that get jelly cause all the attention isn't on them

>>723509013
Fucking idiot, art doesn't automatically mean good.

This is a self report, you are definitely a 19 years old dumbass, kill yourself ASAP

I think it all boils than to pacing and moment to moment gameplay. Most video games (even those considered "good") are really bad in reality. They don't respect the player's time for example. The grind, the backtracking, the moments in some open world where nothing happens from point A to point B. It's either that or mindless button mashing or turn based bullshit for kids. The writing is barebone, non existent or straight up bad most of the time. It's no wonder that the only part of video games that is considered art is the OST (FF7 for example). A good video game that could eventually be considered as art combine beautiful graphics/artstyle that doesn't age, excellent gameplay that makes the player consantly interact with it and good soundtrack. Story can be considered optional but a bad story with bad dialogues and bad characters greatly hinders a game's potential

>>723507857 (OP)
because it's more profitable to see them as products instead
same reason why blockbuster movies aren't seen as art either, actual art doesn't sell well because it's meant to say something that will alienate certain potential customers

>>723507857 (OP)
Unironically because of "Gameplay"

Gameplay contradicts with Art.

Art is a vision of an artist, and when you have Gameplay it contradicts that because it gives the player agency.

To fully present a pure distilled art, you must remove any outside forces.

Art is represented with 3 main things, sound, visuals and writing.

Mona Lisa (Visual) = art
Beethoven 5th (Sound) = art
Anna Karenina (Writing) = art
Theatre (Combines all 3) = art
Films (Combines all 3) = art

Games (a set of rules defined by gameplay mechanics) + (player agency) = Not art

Can art be buggy? No? Then games are not art

>>723507857 (OP)
Because art is stupid and video games are fun.

>>723512958
Art is what pretentious kids say when they think it elevates what form of entertainment they like to high levels that garners them some sort of respect.

>>723513057
No, it isn’t. Maybe in high school and college it is.

>>723507857 (OP)
The game in your OP is just an amalgamation of like 4 different movies. That's why

>>723510752
And that precludes them from being art how? Typing like this is exhausting.

>>723512862
It can. Film reels can burn, the band accompanying a theater production can make mistakes, stage actors can slip and fall, the power could go out at a portrait gallery, etc.

The average /v/editor doesn’t know what English words mean

>>723507857 (OP)
Because it's still a new medium. Video games only started being commercially sold in the 70's and it wasn't until the 80's that tech was good enough that developers could even attempt to tell good stories and it wasn't until the 90's that cinematic games like mgs became viable. Games were also marketed towards children because of arcades which didn't help. Give it a couple more decades and they will be treated the same way films are right now.

>>723507857 (OP)
>Why aren't video games taken seriously as a medium/art form, the same way that movies, literature, paintings, etc. are?
>posts MGS

You zooms are quite funny.

>>723507857 (OP)
Because of wokeslop from western devs, and pedoslop from asian devs

bros is the mgs collection on switch 2 worth it?

>>723513858
Remember Cuties on Netflix?

>>723507857 (OP)
Because gaming is an amalgamation of various mediums almost always done poorly.
>writing that rarely meets the standards of TV, let alone film and literature
>generic music
>poor lighting and cinematography
There are just too many points of failure, it's too difficult.

Add to this that the gameplay fails to integrate well with all of these aspects and you have a medium that only ever rises to mediocrity.
I would love to be proven wrong, but I don't think any game has ever managed it.

>>723514190
>I would love to be proven wrong
Tetris.

>>723507857 (OP)
>Why aren't video games taken seriously as a medium/art form, the same way that movies, literature, paintings, etc. are?


You're whining about what Sotheby workers older than 45+ years old think of you.

Stop being a bitch.

>>723514295
>Tetris
Yeah I was thinking super simple, well made yet surprisingly deep games might be worth considering. Tetris seems like the best example, only other one I can think of that's similar-ish is Chess but of course that's not a video game.

>>723507857 (OP)
the greatest thing about games is that they're not to be taken seriously. normies failing to understand this has caused so many problems in the industry it's insane.

the entire reason gaming journalists are despised in the first place is because they can only judge games through the lens of a blowhard liberal arts student. that's why they start shidding and farding over things like "violence against women" or "toxic masculinity" because that's the kind of subtext they see in games that were created for harmless fun. that's not even to mention literal federal agencies thinking gamers are being radicalized by video games for many of the same reasons.

>>723514496
I would argue that sometimes, people playing games can also be art.

im okay with video games not being art

>>723507857 (OP)
Because their popularity makes artfags seethe so they have to be reductive and judge the medium by the standard of the one they specialize in to cope.

>>723507857 (OP)
because the gameplay needs to be fun.

>>723512416
This is the issue here, your judging it purely by aesthetics and visual prowess as if its a fucking movie. That's like saying that literature is not an artform because there are no visuals and the only outliers are picture books. Games as an artform are their own thing and not just a branch of some other medium. You are not going scene by scene or skipping shit in most games you are with the protagonist from start to finish you experience and partially tell the story yourself.

>>723514190
this is literally every artistic medium
99% of all art is shit

>>723518664
90% of writing is shit, 90% of anything filmed is shit, therefore 99% of films are shit (since a good film requires both). Gaming requires too many plates to be juggled, so much so that the % of shit goes to basically 100.