Thread 723612876

I can't do it anymore bros... I just can't... Meaningless corridors with trash enemies meant as padding all being labelled as "exploration", Backtracking to the same areas over and over every time you get new powers, zero insta kill traps, no well thought out enemy placement, dumb retarded enemies who serve as punching bags, MC power creep sets in within a few hours of playing the game, skill set divided into upgradable / acquirable fragments giving the illusion of some RPG progression....

WHAT KIND OF DOGSHIT GENRE IS THIS?

Then don't play them. No one is twisting your arm.

>>723613806
No. I am just curious about the appeal. I try to understand the aspects which make people like a genre of video games even if I am not particularly into it.

It is just that this particular genre confounds me so hard as I can't seem to figure out any redeeming aspects of it even after playing several metroidvania games. Every single one seems to be inferior to linear platforming games of the past. I would appreciate if anyone can clear my biases.

>>723612876 (OP)
No need to pretend. Your moaning is directed at a single game, not an entire genre. Which game is it? It better not begin with S. Otherwise I'm gonna whip your tryhard ass black and blue.

Metroidvanias are basically an easy-bake game design template. If you run down the checklist, you cover a lot of bases - action with an easy to curate escalation curve, actual level design through platforming and light puzzles, exploration that's right inbetween being too guided and being too open-ended, player progression that occurs at a natural pace through ability acquisition. It really is a template at this point, all you need is maybe a half-unique gimmick of your own and an aesthetic that you want to run with and from there, just slot together the basic pieces until you have your IKEA ready 7/10 game, maybe even an 8/10 if you're actually good at making it. There's really been no reason to move beyond the standards set by Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night, the ideas still work today.

>>723614207
They're games where you can get lost inside. If you don't enjoy a massive city hidden behind a secret wall(prefered a linear experience over exploration), It is problably not for you

>>723615031
Weird that La Mulana was the only such game in the genre which had a clear focus on that aspect. I see that as an outlier.

>>723612876 (OP)
/v/tards will really complain about padding in one breath and then complain the game doesn't pad its runtime with instakill traps in the next

>>723614207
>Every single one seems to be inferior to linear platforming games of the past
So you're comparing these games to something with a specialized focus. That's a mistake, Metroidvanias are "jack of all trades" types of games, they blend a lot of different ideas together decently rather than doing any one of them particularly well. It's not going to be as good of a platformer as a pure platformer, but they're also probably going to have better action sequences and powerups than a platformer because that genre really doesn't emphasize those sorts of things, whereas your average Metroidvania will take a crack at all of them.

>>723614502
>There's really been no reason to move beyond the standards set ...
Essentially if you've played the classics of the genre, you've played all of them. I've felt this. I wonder what causes this stagnation and how it hasn't resulted in diminishing returns. Why haven't other players noticed this?

>>723612876 (OP)
Congratulations, you are now Hetrosexual.

>>723615321
la mulana is a puzzle game first and foremost

You either get it or you don't. And I don't

>>723615460
This, so fucking this. That said I did enjoy HK.

>>723615564
>Why haven't other players noticed this?
Literally everyone knows this, metroidvanias thrived literally because the genre doesn't deviate much from the basics

>>723614207
>It is just that this particular genre confounds me so hard as I can't seem to figure out any redeeming aspects of it even after playing several metroidvania games. Every single one seems to be inferior to linear platforming games of the past. I would appreciate if anyone can clear my biases.
The entire genre is for videogame newfags. We've grown out of metroidvanias because we played them as children, but all these cocksuckers are playing video games for the first time ever and are cooming their brains out.

>>723615460
Atleast SoTN has really good aesthetics and music which are by themselves are good rewards for the time wasting.

>>723615653
>>723615796
I didn't mean that post as a complaint against metroidvanias, I genuinely enjoy it when that happens.

>>723615856
I see. That is ... fine I guess?

>>723615763
Sticking to the fundamentals is great but one can only tolerate playing the same game so many times, yes?

>>723615767
That is a good observation. I could see how metroidvanias are being the modern day jumping pad for beginners to get into 2D platformers and that in turn resulting in people glazing them.

>>723615856
Thats why I posted that gif of you.

>>723616252
>but one can only tolerate playing the same game so many times, yes?

you can say the same thing about any other genre

>>723615540
>Metroidvanias are "jack of all trades" types of games, they blend a lot of different ideas together decently rather than doing any one of them particularly well.
A game which doesn't do anything particularly well is a game which doesn't leave any impact in the course of time. People will still remember Ninja Gaiden NES 50 years in the future but Metroidvania #135030, which did financially better, would be forgotten to time. They being utterly unremarkable is deeply concerning.

>>723616467
You need to play dwarf fortress.

>>723616467
Perhaps so but the difference lies in the point that metroidvanias have no room to grow whereas others still have some.

>>723615604
>the projection
Who hurt you?

>>723616650
that's just you making assumptions because you are biased against the genre

>>723616650
>1-800 Come on now.jpg

>>723616702
Im projecting heterosexuality. Thats a new one. Did I accidently log into leftpol?

>>723616704
Maybe I am failing to see the value additions that the new metroidvania games give to the genre since I'm overwhelmed by their similarities to their predecessors. Please elaborate their contributions if you will, good sir.

>>723615604
Man i'm so glad i played the game before the pandemic.

>>723616474
Sure, the remarkable ones came out in the 90s. The ones where this formula was actually innovative. I don't think anyone sane would argue against that.

>>723616702
End your life, tranny.

>>723616252
>but one can only tolerate playing the same game so many times, yes?
In moderation, not really. Sometimes it's nice to go back to a reliable formula but with a new coat of paint. The magic of Metroidvanias is that they're relatively hard to fuck up and can be carried by an interesting aesthetic. That's how you get fans of stuff like Ender Lilies/Magnolia. The gameplay is boilerplate Metroidvania, but the aesthetics are incredibly charming. I hope to God no one is playing these in 2025 expecting novelty or evolution because the appeal really is in their safety and reliability.

>>723617306
>I hope to God no one is playing these in 2025 expecting novelty or evolution because the appeal really is in their safety and reliability
So this is why everyone jacks off Astlibra

>>723617306
>The magic of Metroidvanias is that they're relatively hard to fuck up and can be carried by an interesting aesthetic.
You see. Therein lies a major problem. I have yet to see anything as charming or intriguing as the aesthetics of the classics. For me, the recent games seem to be rather shoddy especially in the artstyle side of things. It is equivalent to the analogy of having listened to Beethoven and now listening to 3rd rate musicians who are trying their best to meet the high bar.

>>723614207
The entire genre is a psyop. Aria was cool at the time because you could farm souls and try them out like a rpg+former and the corridors were short. The moment they invented a name for it, everything went downhill.
>X is an even better sidescroller, have you heard of it?
>That doesn't belong to the discussion since that's not a ´´Metroidvánia´´ (source: it came to me in a dream). I only play games that are proper ´´Metroidvániáe´´.
>mm I'm unsure if I may call this a true Castletroid or not, regardless I don't think it does justice to the numerous design elements and goals of a yadda yadda.
All of us who play actually good sidescrollers were cast aside.

>>723617657
Fair enough. I'm not gonna prop one game over the other because I think it depends from person to person. I don't think too many would say to play most modern ones over a classic like SotN (well, aside from HK I guess but eeeeeeeeeh), but if you want more after the matter then you can find more and if you don't then it's not the end of the world. I really do think it's a comfort food genre nowadays and not much more beyond that.

>>723617675
>The entire genre is a psyop
It's not a psyop. It is folk concept formed by the gestalt of players.

>>723617675
>reee why don't play make games in my ultra specific genre instead of an adjacent genre that is popular
plenty of games exist for what you are looking for anon, metroidvanias aren't stealing them from you.
the problem is just you don't like the quality of the games coming out

Well gentlemen, the discussion has petered out and I believe it is time for me to go to sleep. I can confidently claim that my understanding of why people like this genre is somewhat better now by the discussions that were held here. Thanks anons.

>>723614207
You are encouraged to create a mental map of verbs (powers) and nouns (obstacles), which rapidly creates something that lives rent-free in your head and consequently feels more compelling for people who are starting to get burned out from games using sunk cost and daily rituals as a means of living in your head rent-free.

>>723612876 (OP)
Pretty much every Metroidvania these days is just a bad version of either Super Metroid or Symphony of the Night made by some guy who thinks he's going to be the next Team Pixel or Cherry. They stick too closely to the formula without understanding what makes those games work. I "beat" Cave Story recently (I got to the final boss but haven't defeated it, yet) and that's a good example of a game that's considered a Metroidvania but breaks away from the mold and isn't just a bad Souptroid clone.

>zero insta kill traps
Kind of an odd thing to criticize, but Shantae on the GBC has that (though it has plenty of your other criticisms). Bottomless pits and killer spikes a-la Megaman. Lives system too. It's kind of like Simon's Quest.

>>723614502
Exactly. People don't really innovate with the genre standards. Metroidvania is the gaming equivalent of capeshit. It's easy to make broadly enjoyable without too much thought.

>>723615431
Having to git gud isn't the same as running back and forth in a huge map, though.

>>723615767
>>723616252
As someone who mainly plays platformers (not just Metroidvania), what exactly is a genre for "advanced gamers"?

>>723618127
No, it's a fake genre. It's all sidescrollers but people have been brainwashed into believing Metroidvania is a snowflake concept that deserves special snowflake threads to talk specifically only about this ""genre"".
I'll look at a less linear platformer with corridors and god knows if people will think it a metroidvania. Terraria is an exploration game but...that's a Terraria. I saw a Terraria clone but with designed corridors.. Someone called Astlibra a non-metroidvania. No one knows what they're talking about and it isn't worth thinking about anyway. It's a stupid label to use to talk or think about games.

>>723620930
You realize sub-genres are a thing, right? Metroidvanias are a sub-genere of platformers.

It could also be argued that the progression system is what makes a Metroidvania, though I;m not in the state of mind to think that Zelda or Batman: Arkham are fucking Metroidvanias

>>723620431
>what exactly is a genre for "advanced gamers"?
NTA but fighting games, RTS games, possibly any other genre that you can think of which requires you to have apriori knowledge of the mechanics to have a smooth experience whereas metroidvania are designed to be player knowledge agnostic.

>>723621378
That makes sense. I'd say those really just require different mindsets. You don't exactly go from Platformers to Fighting games like a Pokemon evolution. But I can picture a platformer that demands the player already understands its mechanics from the start. From what I've heard Silksong is like that.

>>723620431
>Exactly. People don't really innovate with the genre standards. Metroidvania is the gaming equivalent of capeshit. It's easy to make broadly enjoyable without too much thought.
A Metroid game without that much thought put into it is just a 5/10 +/- 1/10, just like capeshit.
A thoroughly mediocre slog that is the mental equivalent of staring at drywall for that same period of time, just like what Mercurysteam ended up putting together.

>>723621841
>just like what Mercurysteam ended up putting together.
But dread was received well and so did bloodstained, both of which that were made with generic checkbox ticking game design philosophy. Clearly you are exaggerating the bar when it comes to "decent" metroidvania games according to the general public who consumes it.

>>723621329
I know dipshit. how many times have I said it?
It's an unecessary sub-genre, as if I'm browsing a thread for "horizontal 2.5d shooters whose name begins with G" and there were constant questions "can you rec more H2.5dSH'UMPWNBGs?" because the latest fotmo was a H2.5dSH'UMPWNBG and immediately saw someone go "what?? this game does NOT begin with G, I may consider Dee- valid as that's a gray area area but since we're talking about the intricacies of H2.5dSH'UMPWNBG-" shut the fuck up.

>>723622004
Keep in mind the capeshit comparison. Though I will say, I think Dread's checklist mentality can be excused a bit given that the series it's apart of is what created the checklist to being with. Plus it does have a new level component (The EMMI sections) which change the gameplay approach somewhat.

>>723622107
Why exactly are they not "a necessary subgenre"? What makes a "necessary subgenre" in your opinion? Not being able to differentiate it immediately by a screencap or gameplay video is kind of a retarded reason.

Also
>horizontal 2.5d shooters whose name begins with G
lmfao. That is not fucking comparable at all.

>>723616852
>Please elaborate their contributions if you will
It's simple. There ain't any. The other guy was just bluffing.

>>723612876 (OP)
I dunno, I just play actual Metroid for my fix

Play super metroid x fusion bwos. It is the best metroid game in a long time.

>>723622004
Dread is just not a very coherent experience. You're shuttled from place to place with teleports, the entire map is fragmented into travel-zones so they don't have to worry about how things connect and you are constantly locked into 3-4 room segments to avoid confusing people when it comes to progression. I kept coming back to it to finish it, but I'm just not that interested after that.
>Clearly you are exaggerating the bar when it comes to "decent" metroidvania games according to the general public who consumes it.
I'm just not using the journalism scale where anything below 73 represents a conscious "Do not recommend" on account of 73 being the safe score given to something the journalist did not play prior to scoring. 5/10 is just something I'm using to indicate the middle of the road as it were.
I guess I'm mostly conflicting with the idea that capeshit is easy to make broadly enjoyable, since most capeshit seems very broadly unenjoyable now, falling more squarely into a 4/10 category of something that you will drop if distracted by literally anything else.
>>723622206
I'm not really sure that the EMMI sections add anything.

>>723612876 (OP)
>fatigue
>less than one relevant game per year

>spongebob
o nevermind, you are just a tertiary complaining about his youtube feed. It was never about playing.

>>723622206
>it does have a new level component (The EMMI sections)
Lol. Do you remember the stages in platformers where the screen was constantly scrolling up and you would die if you don't keep up or those stages where the water was slowly filling the screen and you would drown if you can't outpace it ? That is essentially the philosophy behind EMMI. People think it is innovative when it is actually just derivative with a tiny twist.