Thread 723649730

So was it actually hard?

>>723649730 (OP)
I HECKIN LOVE GENERAL THREADS

OP here
I heckin love sucking cocks

>>723649892
>>723649803
Silk Song is a video game, tranny. I know you don't like to talk about those

OP here
I am trans btw and I condemn the highly transphobic post above mine

No, casuals just wanted to rush through the game because they wanted to be part of the discussion

It depends

>>723649730 (OP)
hard to not fall asleep
hard to not uninstall

>>723649803
Spam bait isn't a general

not really. I had the same amount of difficulty maintaining my interest in this goyslop as all the others that have become increasingly common this past decade.

Hornet made my dick a bit hard

Perchance.

It was challenging and that’s a good thing

>>723649730 (OP)
no its just tedius

After doing a 100% steel soul run in Silksong, I did a 112% Hollow Knight to check how much of my thoughts were some form of nostalgia and how much was objective. Turns out HK is indeed the better game:

>Difficulty: HK < SS
No surprise here. HK felt like a walk on the park. In fact, my first "death" was against pure vessel during the 4th pantheon. And the game does not even count that as a death since it is inside a dream.
Everything is much better telegraphed by a combination of enemy posture and sounds. 2dmg attacks are mostly reserved for end game infected enemies and dream bosses.
SS pushes you way harder, but not necesarily in a good way. Almost all of my damage taken was from situations were there was too much going on visualy or by rng attacks.
>Movement: HK < SS
Hornet feels way more fun to move around with. There is weight in her movement which feels nice. The only two bad things movement wise is the delay for the sprint jump and hook costing silk.
In contrast. The little ghost's movement feels stiff. The dash is fixed, the jump feels like a crane moving your character upwards, etc.
>Length: HK = SS
This 112% run in HK took me 34. My 100% steel run in SS took me 29. However, DLC for SS will most likely amp the playtime for another 5-10 hours. I'd say they are mostly the same.
(cont)

>>723656184
>Map Design: HK > SS
While HK's map is small, the player moves slower which makes things not feel that small. Admittedly, SS map is still bigger. However, a big map does not equate to good levels. HK has a single hub for the entire game, while SS has 3, making some things inconvenient. Adding to this, the backtracking necessary to complete SS is egregious. Even with the superior movement, getting around took way too long. While backtracking existed in HK too, the only places that took long to return were the abyss and kingdom's edge in general. HK map is way more open too, once you get wall jump, you can basically go everywhere except Queen's Garden. SS feels almost linear during Act 1.
>Normal Enemies: HK > SS
HK has only two enemies that could qualify as "annoying", both in Kingdom's Edge. The primal aspid (flier that spits 3 shots) and the great hopper due sponginess and rare 2 dmg. Every other enemy in the game is fine. HP, placement, theme, all of it. SS has way too many enemies that has a little too much HP for incidental combat, too many enemies that deal 2 dmg and every flier in the game is a menace in open spaces. At least clawline helps mitigate some of it, but you don't get it until the midgame.
>Bosses: HK > SS
HK bosses are all simple, but that simplicity make every fight feel like a dance. The best example everyone can remember are the Mantis Lords: Just 3 attacks you need to adapt to.
Now we compare to SS and it all falls apart. Some bosses have poor telegraph, some too much rng, some have questionable hitboxes and so on. SS have good bosses too, but HK was more consistent in making them fun.
(cont)

>>723656328
>Charms/Blue&Yellow Tools: HK > SS
In HK, you can start customizing as soon as you reach Salubra and complement with Sly once you find the shopkeeper key, which you can get early if you buy the lantern. This means you can get core stuff at shops and then get additional chamrs that go with you as you play. In SS, yellow tools are mostly useless. You're likely to get Silkspeed and something else that feels like "whatever". Blue tool selection feels a bit better. HK also have synergies which SS have not.
>Spells/Silk Skills, Crests & Red Tools: HK < SS:
HK gets you the Spirit that goes through enemies, invulnerability dive, DPS Anti-Air. Each of them has a place and by default, you can use them after 3 nail hits. SS has an impressive selection here. However, I'd say SS wins here despite it shortcomings. You can carry one Silk Skill at a time unless you're using the endgame shaman crest and require 4 nail hits to use.
The red tools are horribly balanced. They do absurd amounts of damage, balanced around the fact that they need Shell Shards. However, the amount needed to use them is never less than the amount given back by enemies. Bosses don't even drop Shell Shards. This means that you need to rely on the game feeding you shell shards or you will eventually need to grind. You also have a limited number of uses before you need to sit on a bench again, meaning that even if you find a way to balance your Shell Shard usage, you will still hit this other design wall. Fortunately, you can usually equip two at a time. Red tools are very fun to use when you do get to use them, but the game really tries to make it awkward.
Crests are nice. They change how you play and I'd say that is good enough. I wish Beast, Witch and Shaman had the same amount of slots as the rest though.

>>723656184
>>723656328
>>723656407
SS is the better game

>>723656407
>Heal: HK > SS:
In HK, you focus, draining soul until you drain 33. Then, you heal 1 mask. You start with 100 and can upgrade up to 200, for 6 heals total. You need to stay still on the ground for a second unless you equip notches that let you move, do it faster, or take longer and heal two masks. Being hit waste the focused soul up until that point, not the entire 33.
In SS, you bind. Comiting 9 silk. Then, you heal 3 masks. You start with 9 and can upgrade up to 18, for 6 heals in total. You need to stay still on the ground or in midair for a second unless you equip tools that let you do it faster, or take longer and heal 4 masks. Being hit waste the comited 9 silk. No refunds.
On the surface, SS sounds better because since the total amount is the same as HK, but you can do it in mid air and spend less total time healing. However, due how the enemies and bosses are designed, being able to do it in midair becomes a necessity, not an advantage. There is also the cost of opportunity. In HK, you trade a heal for a spell. In SS, you trade a heal for 2 spells. Also, since you're forced to heal 3 masks and the game is filled with 2 damage sources. You will find yourself overhealing a lot. HK never had this problem since, again, it is better designed.
(cont)

>>723649730 (OP)
Hard? Yes
As Hard as /v/eddit made it out to be?
No. I suck at videogames and even I didn't struggle that much with the endgame bosses.

>>723656763
>Upgrades HK > SS
Masks are the same. Soul/Silk however. In HK, 3 vessel fragments get you a soul vessel, equivalent to a heal/spell, you can find 9, for a total of 3 extra heals/attacks. In SS, 2 spools will get you 1 extra silk, which does nothing. You need to find 8 spools for an extra attack, 16 for two attacks and all 18 spools for an extra heal. You need to almost 100% the game to get your second heal.
In HK, Charms slots are found and bought all over the place. They always feel nice since you can always fit something. Worst case scenario, that extra charm slot lets you overcharm something expensive and live the authentic silksong experience in HK by getting double damage from everything. In SS, you get memory lockets and venticrest. You're likely to stick to 1 or 2 crests for the entirety of a run, meaning that 3-6 memory lockets will suffice until you need to unlock venticrests, which are placed in an annoying to reach place after you find an arbitrary number or lockets (12 and 20). This effectively means that after the 6th memory locket, they mean nothing until you hoard a bunch of them.

All in all, HK is a simpler, less technical game with a lower ceiling, but it is overall better designed, giving you a good time. SS has a clear advantage in many many fronts, but it is heavily held back by bad design choices that ultimately hurts the game, making it a less fun experience.

>>723649730 (OP)
No, retards just went into it expecting HK2. Those who figured out it's not, thrived.

It's Dutch chocolate cake filled with glass and nails. The chef and his merry band of sycophants laugh at you struggling to eat it and if you suggest it would be better without the glass and nails, you're a baby because they enjoy their intestines being shredded by glass and nails.

>>723656184
>hook costing silk.
I think the idea was that they didnt want players to spam it. But it would have been a boring alternative if the devs had decided to just give it a longer, fixed cooldown between uses.

>>723649730 (OP)
It was just tedious. Too much backtracking to areas that are specifically placed far away from any fast travel point. Benches placed an unnecessary distance from bosses. All flying enemies have the same AI which is programmed to fly higher than you can jump and immediately slide away from you when you get to close. Poorly balanced Tool lineup with all of the good ones in Blue slots where as even 3 Yellow slots is too many and would be better with one of them being a Blue instead.
Most bosses are designed to fuck you over in cheap ways by determining their landing position mid-jump, covering the screen with tons of shit and then doing a separate attack that might not even have a safe spot to dodge, almost every boss has some kind of instant melee attack they can do while you're attacking them.

>>723660731
>It was just tedious
There it is, the classic cope. Because of course, none of your deaths were your fault.

I had fun.

>>723649730 (OP)
2 mask hits is bad design

>>723661050
>uwahhh wahhhh wahhhh I want to heal for 3 but always take 1 damage! mommy the game is bully me!

>>723649730 (OP)
I dropped it after 50+ tries into Last Judge. It was too hard for me and there was no point me to continue trying if supposedly early boss like that walled me so bad. But I had lot of fun with it until that point.

>>723656328
>normal enemies
>nothing about tools despite the fact that basic tools like three knives cost only three shards and can deal with flying enemies in two or three uses
It's hard to take these things seriously when people seem to fundamentally misunderstand the game. It's like if someone described themselves playing a first person shooter where they went around meleeing everything.

>>723661129
when you fall in sawblades the animation hits 2 times but deals 1 damage. bad design or bug?

>>723661269
act 2+3 still fun if you mod it, everyones doing it just afraid to admit it

>>723649730 (OP)
tranny thread

>>723649730 (OP)
Bug cock got hard while inside Hornet's pussy

>>723661478
>>723656407
To add to this, I played through the entire game, twice, with poison knives for non-boss exploration and was almost always maxed out on shards because I didn't need them for most ground enemies, which are always plentiful, and flying enemies would drop almost immediately, doubly so once you get the hookline.
The real problem with Silksong is simply that they built the game around mechanics most people would never engage with or put any thought into. It would have been better as a movie with the occasional QTE.

>>723661574
/thread

>>723649730 (OP)
DSP beat it so it's officially NOT a hard game

>>723649730 (OP)
hard but not nearly as much as it was hyped to be

>>723660897
That's not what "tedious" means, dumbo.

>>723661828
>cogfly
>pins
didnt beat the game

>>723649730 (OP)

Na, we were just rusty in the seven years it spent in development.

>When Hornet fights you in Hollow Knight, she's got Silk Spear, Thread Storm, Parry, and Sting Shard all on the Hunter crest at the same time
Imagine losing twice in a row while cheating this hard
>>723662589
I beat P5 only 5 weeks before Silksong and Silksong is at least a factor of 5 harder than any content in Hollow Knight. Fags on /v/ just like to pretend they didn't struggle with the game after they already beat it. This board was filled with weeks of seething over Groal and Karmelita.

>>723649730 (OP)
I just got the ending. I got hard blocked by some boss in the Bilewater for almost a week, I thought I needed an item or something to find the Architect's Melody but no, just look at the damned shit and line up the notes. Meaning I could have been done with this shit a couple weeks ago and didn't need to spend so much time exploring every nook and cranny in the world.

And there's an ACT 3 of this shit? I already clocked in 62 hours. When will it end!?

>>723662464
I checked the fight out of curiosity, he didn't use a single tool in a fight, only nail and heals
so he did beat the game after all

>>723649730 (OP)
Starts hard, gets easy, then gets hard again until you get the Architect Crest and the more broken tools and choose to use them.

>>723649730 (OP)
No, not at all. It's only 'hard' if you're a shitter who can't even handle diagonal pogo so you use the reaper with -30% dps, and at the same time you refuse to use silk spells because "I need silk to heal" and refuse to use tools in any capacity because "that's cheating", and also don't use the dash or clawline and try to play the game identically to a basic bitch version of the knight. Then and only then is the game hard. Otherwise, the challenge level too easy in the beginning, and becomes fair only in late act 2 and act 3.

>>723661478
Any advice you can give about b-but tools is kneecapped by the fact shell shards exist. Ain't nobody blowing shards on mobs when they can thread storm them instead, considering how if you even think about trying to use them on content that's actually hard you're looking at 100+ shards down the toilet at a minimum. Game encourages hoardmaxxing like very few others. And before you say "nyo you're just using them wrong," this reaction is so universally reported that it's now on the devs for making a system that just plain runs afoul of basic human psychology.

>>723663336
>three knives cost only three shards and can deal with flying enemies in two or three uses
Also the entirety of
>>723661701

>>723663510
>>>>>>>>>And before you say "nyo you're just using them wrong," this reaction is so universally reported that it's now on the devs for making a system that just plain runs afoul of basic human psychology.
Already inb4'd you. Don't waste my time.

>>723649730 (OP)
Hard to enjoy? For sure. A very tedious and time-wasting game literally made for obese, sweaty losers with no jobs.

>>723649730 (OP)
Yeah, she made me hard

>>723656184
>>723656328
>>723656407
>>723656763
tl;dr: I got filtered like a little bitch.

>>723663759
I used throwing pins the whole game because it lets you conserve shards and they feel fun & fair, but even then you barely go positive in fights. Like 1 pin is worth approx 2.5 shitter mobs in shards. I wouldve liked if tools / shards were balanced differently but id be suggesting like MOBA cooldowns or something.

>>723649730 (OP)
trying to beat seth in flea games is hard

>use wanderer
>plays exactly like HK and just mash melee and stop to heal when needed
>beat entire game just as easily as HK
Are all of these threads just one person falseflagging both sides?

>>723664467
I topped his score in everything but flea juggle and I just really don't feel like doing it right now.

>40 minutes just to get to the end of P5
>always choke on NKG or PV even after beating them radiant
Put me out of my misery. Please tell me I can unlock Radiance in the Hall of Gods for practice once I reach her, right?

>>723664428
Are you using them on literally every mob or just on a mob constantly moving out of your melee range and/or to finish a bigger mob?
The game throws so many small mobs everywhere that found myself having to go out of my way to dump shards to kill enemies a little faster so I wasn't wasting them.

>>723649730 (OP)
>>>/vg/.

>>723664428
Or just have them be a less critical part of the intended combat flow. Sekiro was ripped for its spirit emblem system for essentially the same reason shell shards get ripped, but the complaints weren't nearly as vitriolic because your shinobi tools in Sekiro were mostly gimmicks. There were a few really strong tools in Sekiro, like the firecrackers and the shield, but they were treated as optional augments and the game was very much still beatable via a sword-only L1L1L1L1L1L1L1L1L1L1L1L1L1 rhythm game. The tools were nice to have but ultimately optional. So the fact that trying to make heavy use of the shinobi tools would make you fucking broke super fast wasn't as big a deal. Silksong wants you to be using the tools way more often all the time, so this same ammo system immediately becomes way more oppressive and thus gets stronger hate. The most straightforward solution would be to implement them more like Sekiro, where your tools are more optional augments instead of a core part of your arsenal. This would mean a big rebalancing of your silk arts and nail movesets to compensate.

>>723664638
>Please tell me I can unlock Radiance in the Hall of Gods for practice once I reach her, right?
Of course, which is what makes P5 largely pointless. There's zero reason to even attempt it until you've practiced PV and AR enough times that would never lose and you don't get any benefit out of doing the first forty plus bosses better unless you've unlocked all of the lifeblood and even then, the bit of extra lifeblood isn't enough of a difference that you wouldn't just learn the fight in Hall of Gods anyway.
I get that it's cool conceptually to have a gauntlet of every boss in the game but it really is just meaningless tedium the way they implemented it.

>>723664732
>STOP TALKING ABOUT VIDEOGAMES ON THE VIDEOGAMES BOARD STOP IT STOP STOOOOOOOOOOOP
Eat my shit, tranny.

>>723664668
I just occasionally use them, but some mobs are fairly tanky depending on what stage of the game you're at and nail tier you're on. So you can use like 3 pins on 2 guys and still go negative, and there's the gauntlets that have no rewards.

>>723664668
NTA but even if you relegate tools to be a "oh fug a big lad or a big group I can't deal with, die" puts you in the hole for a surprisingly long amount of time because the encounters where you'd be doing this, like bosses and arenas, don't drop shards. Any and all "heavy" tool usage is a debt that takes a disproportionate amount of time to recover from through normal world traversal. When I did the Broodmother quest, I was in shell shard financial shambles for hours afterwards. Are you just never fucking using your tools ever? Your tool usage must be so light it practically doesn't exist.

>>723664793
>where your tools are more optional augments instead of a core part of your arsenal. This would mean a big rebalancing of your silk arts and nail movesets to compensate.
Isn't that exactly what wanderer does?

>>723664428
You see, thats the issue. Shards pushed you into using a single tool.

Silksong is a Trans-positive game.

>>723665045
>So you can use like 3 pins on 2 guys and still go negative
Right but my point is that you're constantly bombarded with enemies that don't require tools but drop shards. Most of the enemies are just walking shard drops like the little spider mites, most of the pilgrim enemies, the cog mechanisms, etc.
Even the larger enemies are handled just by pogoing or positioning yourself near a wall or platform so you seldom use tools there. That just leaves tools for enemies that fly away from your melee attacks or the very end of gauntlets at which point, you'll have tools specifically to handle those parts, empty your load, and then the gauntlet is over and you're back to passively sucking up shards from
>enemy that just walks into you #35156

>>723665139
To an extent but I'm talking about a more holistic rebalancing across the board.

>>723649730 (OP)
I'd say it's more difficult than Hollow Knight in a tedious way.
I think the balancing is bad in all 3 parts of the game (early mid and late), which is an achievement in of itself. That happens when only a handful of the most hardcore players of the first game are your only play-testers. A very unforced error.

>>723661050
TRUTHNUKE

>>723649730 (OP)
no it wasn't. I stopped bothering learning the bosses in act three and destroyed them all with pins, exploding spikes and witch crest + trobbio mirror heal nukes. Lost lace was a bit difficult but I still got the job done with this build. I played wanderer during act 2 and mostly used the pin with some exploding spikes here and there.

>>723665298
TFG

It's not that hard it's just unfun to play.
Silksong is a game without HK's charm and atmosphere

>>723649730 (OP)
Dunno about hard, but it was very tumblresque.

>>723665098
>Gauntlets
Most light enemies are silk dispensers and can also be trivialized by using parry once you've gotten it. Even if I'm playing poorly, I can just heal up since, if I'm not using tools, the amount of hits it takes to kill them will be enough to then heal afterwards and that should be at least a net neutral unless I'm just walking into attacks.
That leaves the last part of the gauntlets when the big enemies show up at which point I brough tools specifically to end those parts immediately and once it's over, it's over.
For something like Broodmother specifically, I'm not sure when you'd be using tools early. The tiny flies are actual silk fodder and the fat flies just drop straight down to give you free melee attacks.
At most, you have a single emaciated flying one but the idea of losing hundreds of shards there, I legitimately cannot wrap my head around it.

>>723665393
I don't have to use tools against anything in the game but they're fun, not crazy OP and they reduce the time fighting random group of citadel choir bugs #2834848 slightly. The resource element is annoying. I'd fr rather a cooldown.

>>723665456
I still feel it naturally addresses itself where the game has so many "fodder" enemies that drop shards. It always falls back to gauntlets which, if we were to actually go over each one, it would still be clear that they aren't shard dumps.

>>723665824
I just have more fun with them being able to throw them out like crazy when I want to which a CD would prevent. Having them be shards gives far more player control even ignoring that, if you're somehow dumping out hundreds of them, you can re-farm to max in a couple of minutes once you reach Act II.

>>723649730 (OP)
I don't think it's hard at all. I just beat skarrsinger karmelita on my 3rd try. I never use tools.

>>723666068
>just farm
That is not a sign of good game design

>>723665778
The fact that this entire post amounts to explaining how you don't actually need to use the tools for 95% of the encounter just reiterates what I said about
>Your tool usage is so light it practically doesn't exist at all

>>723666353
>if you're somehow dumping out hundreds of them
I said that specifically to make the point that farming would be a last resort of what should be an extremely unlikely circumstance.

>>723666470
Alright but where would you be using tools in that encounter?

>>723661574
This entire line ruined everything about Hollow Knight for me. Look at her. Look at her succulent curves and tell me this wasn't specifically designed to elicit arousal. Tell me this isn't bait to make you desire used goods. Team Cherry is full of cucks. Every single one of those australian fucks played us for fools, making sure to design the sexiest creatures known to man, only to be met with the gut punch that they're used goods with gaping vaginas taking black cock every single day. I can't imagine the state of all Hornetfags out there who have actual standards, the hurt they must be feeling knowing their wife wasn't saving herself for them. The chinese review bombing wasn't enough. We need every possible language to review bomb these dirty fucks for taking away the purity of our bug wife. I will not be able to sleep until this justice has been undone. Make them patch it out. Make them listen to the fans for fucking once.

>>723666068
Sure, but the fact that you can spam them makes it so that you can nuke bosses with any pair of tools for like 160 shards. I find that's slightly jank. I guess the point is to "punish" the player with farm for spamming, but then using them while just exploring becomes expensive. Like I want to use the tools "fairly" but I have to be thinking of the economics at the same time... It's just jank.

>>723666919
Spawnkilling any fliers that appear in a mixed wave gank of fliers and grounders, for one. I also blew tons of shards on Broodmother's mobs while I was trying to learn her moveset. Tools are absurdly expensive whenever you want to use them to actually kill things
>But bro you're only supposed to be using them to get in that last cheeky hit on the last remaining enemy of a gauntlet after you've already killed everything else with your needle and got him down to 1hit
Useless, then. What you're describing as the "optimal" playstyle means they're borderline useless fluff.

>>723652508
/thread

>>723667285
but the only mobs that she spawns have five health, die in one hit, deal one damage and do nothing but fly in straight lines.
I'm not exaggerating any of that. That's literally it. Why would you use tools there?

>>723667521
To clear space, avoid contact, and give me more freedom to move, for one. Because I don't know her moveset yet and am trying to learn it, you fucking fag. Jesus. What an insanely pretentious post.

>>723667167
Guess it's different strokes. I like deciding on what enemies I save tools for and making sure to use them properly once I get there. If it was just a cooldown, it would just be mindless for me and at that point, they may as well not exist.

>>723667620
Ah you're shitposting, alright my mistake.

>>723667679
I accept your concession, retard.

>>723667632
Nah, the carry limit is fine. I only meant CD + carry capacity. It's the shards that are fucked up

>>723667285
>Tools are absurdly expensive whenever you want to use them to actually kill things
That's why you have such a huge buffer of them, though, isn't it? You can blow like 200 on recouping from an awful arena, then go gently positive on shards for the next half hour since random shitter enemies you intend only to travel/platform past hardly demand heavy tool use. With more shard capacity you can have longer rises and steeper falls without running out.

>>723649730 (OP)
No. It is a static, unchanging, pattern based game where you have the option to grind for more things to lower the difficulty functionally, with no real stakes as you memorize the patterns and tells.

These games, and all single player games, are inherently for babies.

>>723667931
Which goes back to how the game trends towards hoardmaxxing, which is what was called out in the original post at the start of the chain >>723663336 about how saying "How Are Annoying Mobs Even Real Just Spam Tools Hahahahahahahahaha" ignores obvious consequences of how the shard system makes the game play out.

>>723668073
What are these extremes pf
>you either never use shards period or use them on every single enemy

>>723668073
Your post seems built on the idea that your only two options are to hang back and spam the tool at the enemy you want dead as your only source of damage or do it nail only for muh silk farming. Several enemies I found my favorite method of addressing was to smack them once and then throw a quick tool at them like the coral screw or triple knives. The single digit cost per enemy is usually recouped by their own drops, or other nearby drops.

People got filtered by fucking Broodmother?
That was one of the handful of bosses I first tried

>>723668181
You don't have to "literally never use shards period" to feel the sting of how stingy the game expects you to be with them to use them "efficiently," especially not as you say with bursts of 100+ shard expenditures at semi regular intervals.

>>723668413
Well I mean, he thinks the two options are "use no tools" and "tools are your only DPS until you run out". I can see why Broodmother specifically would fuck with him.

>>723668485
see >>723668409

>>723660731
The tool disparity is so strange I have no idea why all the games fun is locked behind blue ones. Yellow you need compass for exploring and dice for everything else. Sprint shoes and cling claws (whatever theyre called) are fine but you only use them because you have a slot

Meanwhile blue has at least five mandatory tools that you can’t use all at once and several others that make the game more fun

>>723656407
>>723656763
>>723656828
You are a lazy faggot who should spend less time writing essays and more time playing the game. Then you could actually get used to the new content and it wouldn't be as frustrating to you compared to hollow knight, which is only not frustrating to you because you are already used to it

>>723668485
NTA was just commenting on both sides. I can't really interject because I explore and backtrack a lot so I'm constantly killing smaller enemies and getting shards that way.

>>723661828
That’s not act 3

>>723668413
Depending on how early you find Clawline relative to your Songclave progression, you can encounter her really early, potentially even before you do Mount Fay. Broodmother is really hard with limited masks, poor nail upgrades, and/or no double jump. She's a gearcheck boss in the same way Beastfly 2 is a gearcheck boss

>>723668578
All they really did was put compass/geo magnet in its own category since people bitched endlessly about needing to give up player power because they get lost easily.

>>723668485
>feel the sting of how stingy the game expects you to be with them to use them "efficiently,"
No, I didn't really feel that "sting" at all. Using a tool once per enemy, maybe twice if they're particularly fat, is still usually profitable on shards and will often bring them close to death.

>>723668781
>Dude stop complaining about shards all you have to do is never use them to get in a stray hit on a single isolated straggler enemy after you've already done the entire rest of the encounter needle-only
super cucked intended usage for what's such a core feature of the game. 50% of your completion progress is finding these items btw.

>>723668781
How strong was the shard drop buff? I'm on 1.0, maybe shards are less of an issue

>>723668758
It's really bonkers to me that such a large chunk of the population seemingly can't discern their current location on a map solely based on where they were, which direction they've been going, and what their surroundings currently look like.

I'm not saying I didn't get lost once or twice due to rushing when exploring and taking wrong turns but it was never impossible or even really that annoying to just look at a map and realize where I had ended up.

>lost verdania
Are you fucking kidding me with this boss walkback?

>>723669180
Anon, just beat the Gauntlet down and to the left of the boss entrance

>>723668917
>all you have to do is never use them to get in a stray hit on a single isolated straggler enemy after you've already done the entire rest of the encounter needle-only
No, even that is usually profitable. You have to spam 3+ of a tool at an enemy it can barely hit, and that you could also just pass, to go negative on the regular as you seem to be describing.
>50% of your completion progress is finding these items btw.
So fucking what? They're 50% of your items, therefore 50% of your attacks should be done through red tools or it's a SCAM?

>>723669180
Actually a funny af runback fr.

Ironically the game actually gets easier after Act 1, in part because you can finally start upgrading your fucking pin and actually kill things in a reasonable amount of time. It only really spikes in difficulty again for the swamp asshole and then for Lost Lace (who is mostly just hard because she has obnoxious gotcha attacks and spams counter, once you know her tricks and gimmicks she's not that bad)

>>723669061
I didn't know there was a buff. Where did you hear about it? Can't find it in any documented patch notes.

>>723669412
I thought rosaries + shard drops were increaded but maybe its only rosaries. Half the changes aren't even documented so I don't bother checking for this game

>>723669250
>You just have to spam 3+ of a tool to actually kill the enemy (which is almost always the case) to go negative on that encounter
There's almost no enemies in the game that actually get oneshotted by tools. Last time I fought Sister Splinter her mobs needed 2 sting shards to actually kill, or 1 shard + one finisher from the needle. Dunno if they have less HP post-patch. But bottom line is that ever using the tool to actually kill an enemy (what it's designed for) means going in the red, and therefore using them for their intended purpose of clearing the screen means going negative. AND if you want to say "they're not for clearing waves they're just for killing enemies you've already put in a kill position without the tool's help" than they're not doing their job. If I need to be able to kill everything needle-only before using the tool, the tool sucks. They're 50% of your items and all of them suck. What a complete waste of potential, entirely through an ammo system that tells you to avoid using them whenever possible.

>>723669108
I find that the longer it took me to get the map of an area proportional to getting in, the more likely I am to get lost once or twice afterward. Seeing the rooms fill out as I find them is somehow a much stronger cue than just seeing the shape.
Beyond that I have no clue how people could REQUIRE compass. Enjoy it sure, but do you really need it?

>>723669295
I died to that bitch once because I jumped off the wall to avoid a wave and then she popped out of the floor right on top of me. what a load of fucking bullshit

>>723669295
The problem with lost Lace is the void optical diarrhea that takes up 80% of the screen on her final phase.

karmalita is the hardest boss in silk song

>>723668578
>dice are mandatory
I always used sprint shoes over them if I had to pick, the game is too fucking tedious not to max out your dash speed. I didn't actually start using dice at all until around the middle of Act 3.
Actually for me my yellows by end game were:
>Anklets on perma slot
>Compass
>Weighted Belt
>Dice

>Meanwhile blue has at least five mandatory tools
Does it? I typically swapped between Weavelight, Spool Extender, and Pin Badge as the situation called for. The only permanent fixture was Longclaw and that's only because I ended up using Wanderer for most of Act 2/3.

>>723669602
Another loser shitter clown hack diaper baby bitch getting filtered and blaming the game kek

>>723669679
I beat it though

>>723669602
>>723669295
Lost Lace is fought like NKG or First Sinner, where you play the Simon Says game, but it's never safe to chase after them as they teleport so you have to stand around and wait for Lace to do the thing instead. Once you realize this, she dies in just a few extra tries. Almost all your damage and death is inevitably from trying to do a movement or attack that you're not allowed to safely do.

>>723669715
Filtered.

>>723669602
>she popped out of the floor right on top of me.
Yeah, it's pretty fucking retarded when she does that. I hate how she has a random ender to her dash into dash pattern. It'd be easy enough to punish if she consistently ended with a third dash or tentacle attack, but sometimes she just fucking jumps into you so you have to just assume she's always going to go for the jump and only position yourself to punish that.

>>723669638
Karmalita is the funnest boss in silk song

Also muh wife.

>>723669778
it depends on your position
if you're too far she does the third dash, if you're in the air she jumps, if you're in range she does the tentacle
if you jump over the second one she'll do the jump consistently and then you can punish

>>723669602
To me, learning the fight was just learning where not to move to take contact damage when she teleports, her actual attacks were whatever.

>>723669935
the biggest single thing was to simply give up trying to do anything about the triple dash attack, that shit is so hard to hit and you get hit guaranteed if you fuck it up

>>723656184
>>723656328
>>723656407
>>723656763
>>723656828
Anon... people in here don't talk about videogames, it's just shitpost and ragebait, good write tho

>>723669638
>>723669828
Karmalita was a cool boss and I too would probably fuck the bee if I had the chance. In hindsight probably one of my favorite major bosses, along with First Sinner.

>>723669892
Ah, that makes sense. Funny enough figuring out positional moveset exploits was how I beat that obnoxious Shakra fight. One of the only times you can really punish her is after she does that grounded lunge punch, but only if you're behind her which triggers her to throw a ring as a follow up and leave herself exposed for a punish.

Tools are fucked because Team Cherry wanted them to be two things at once
>(1) Emergency Nuclear Bomb Clear The Screen items
>(2) Your primary source of ranged damage whenever some fag is wiggling outside your sword's range
They gave you un-refreshing, very stingily-dispensed ammo to force you to save them for emergencies, as per Option (1), but then throttled their damage and designed tons of regular mob encounters around them so they wouldn't be *too* OP when being used in the overworld as per Option (2). So as a result, you never get enough damage for them to truly be nukes, but you also never get enough ammo to use them as spells. So they're mid as fuck across the board.

>>723669567
>You just have to spam 3+ of a tool to actually kill the enemy (which is almost always the case)
>using the tool to actually kill an enemy (what it's designed for)
>their intended purpose of clearing the screen
Have you considered using the tool once or twice and then finishing off anything that doesn't immediately die with the needle?
>they're not for clearing waves they're just for killing enemies you've already put in a kill position without the tool's help
No, they're for hitting enemies at medium to far ranges (usually) compared to your needle, often putting them within range of an easy one or two shot nail kill. Most tools also have independent hitstop which is fantastically disruptive in a game where every frame matters like this, so they're not bad up close either.
>If I need to be able to kill everything needle-only before using the tool, the tool sucks.
You need to be able to land killing blows needle-only before using tools, yes. Efficient tool use is as an opener and disruption tool, not as a closer, and especially not both.
A few exceptions exist too, but they all pull their weight. Pimpillo pretty much exists to tell one thing to FUCK OFF, tacks make heavy grounded enemies a joke.
>an ammo system that tells you to avoid using them whenever possible
I didn't get the message and I never struggled for shards nor felt like I was held back from using tools.

>>723670080
>the bee

>>723670164
>un-refreshing, very stingily-dispensed ammo
Did we play the same game? I was swimming in shards the entire time. I thought the option to buy them was questionable. I don't think I ever separated a single shard item.

>>723670056
I actually found that the easiest because she's locked into that attack once she starts it and it plays out the same way as >>723669892
said.
One of my kills was witch crest and that attack was basically a guaranteed full hit for the heal each time it came out.

>>723670183
Fuck, I mean ant. Brain signals got crossed, I blame that bee showing up in Hornet's memberberries flashback sequence.

>>723670178
>Have you considered using the tool once or twice and then finishing off anything that doesn't immediately die with the needle?
Have you considered the fact that this is fucking stupid and largely defeats the point of using them during their intended use cases of being ganked or fighting tough mobs? Which you are LITERALLY admitting to in your very next sentence? I want the backpedaling enemy to die, I do not want to ONLY get him down to 33% HP so I can continue waiting for him to waddle his ass over for a needle hit. This is gay. It is the pinnacle of intentionally gimped ragebait design. You are gay for defending it.

>>723670078
I love how your post is surrounded by people talking about the game in detail.

>>723670351
It's okay, Anon. It's hip to fuck bees.

>simple game that requires just paying attention to what you're doing
>completely filters /v/ and mindbreaks everyone so hard that they can't stop making up reasons to hate it and call it tranny
Oh how the mighty have fallen.

>>723670316
>I was swimming in shards the whole time
If you're the same anon from the rest of the thread, I don't want to hear your opinion because you've made it abundantly clear that you did practically every fight without ever touching your tools and reserved them solely to kill like 1 enemy total out of the entire gauntlet. Obviously you're swimming in shards when you never use them.

>>723670164
I think it's more that people can't figure out for themselves a middle ground between using them on literally every enemy, exclusively, until the enemy dies, or never using them at all.
It's like people think they need to be using their full capacity between each bench rest.
It's especially odd behavior when metroidvanias have a lot of going through the same rooms over and over again, so you're almost naturally getting shards back.

>>723670164
>Your primary source of ranged damage whenever some fag is wiggling outside your sword's range
Clawline.

>>723670316
nta but while I never ran out of shards, I also never really went into a full tool playstyle at any point, I mostly just used flint or boomerang for bosses where they were obviously really good. It's just so easy to burn through shards and if you use them for random enemies you'll quicky end up burning through more than you're gaining. I toyed around with Architect but while it was obviously powerful going for the refill and seeing my shards plummet by 100 made me realize how retarded trying to make that work the entire game would have been. I put it away to use for specific bosses but never actually ended up pulling the build out ever.

>>723670591
>Anon forgets you don't even see this item until the halfway point of the game

>>723649730 (OP)
it's not even as hard as the first hollow knight

>>723670405
It wouldn't be a "le /v/ never plays games" post without the poster being a complete retard.

>>723670641
And from that point on, if you STILL rely on tools doing the entire job of killing at a range despite it never working well before, you're probably too retarded to play video games.

I think shards only really exist to give reason to kill bug animals tbqh. It doesn't even stop you from blowing up Groal at all, you can p much skip any boss with any tool so it's barely balancing.

>>723670684
It's hard if you make it hard for yourself which is easier to do than in the first Hollow Knight.
Really, it just makes the point that games are getting progressively easier for a reason. Games need to play themselves if they expect people to actually keep buying them.

>>723670353
>largely defeats the point of using them during their intended use cases of being ganked or fighting tough mobs?
In what way? I don't understand. A tough mob that's one or two hits from dying generally stops being tough. A gank with one member down and another at one hit from death is basically harmless now.
>I want the backpedaling enemy to die, I do not want to ONLY get him down to 33% HP so I can continue waiting for him to waddle his ass over for a needle hit.
I'm afraid to tell you that letting "I don't wanna wait for one cycle, I want him to die NOW" triple your resource expenditure is retarded.

>>723670725
You pick up shards off the floor? I just buy them.

>>723670550
Tbh there's very little point trying to target tool usage to only getting mobs within 1hit of death. For one, you can't even see enemy HP bars so unless you're very deep into repeat tries of the encounter or a second playthrough it's not like you even know how close you are. Second, if you're in the middle of a gank, your #1 priority is dropping the number of enemies on the screen. At the end of High Halls, it doesn't matter if the two cockroaches on screen are 10 hits or 2 hits from death. They can still wombo combo you. One of the hammer cockroaches needs to die, now. Nuke his ass. When Beastfly starts spamming mobs, the situation is now immediately out of control. Nuke them. If the tools aren't nuking, they're not working.

>>723649730 (OP)
yes. Nothing in silksong is harder than radience but at the same time the game gets very difficulty early on. It doesn't have a difficulty curve, it has a difficulty cliff. Fortunately i had a brain and would avoid certain situations to grind for powerups so I didn't get filtered but fuck me that game was still tough.
Hollow Knight's difficulty only matches around the end of the game.

>>723670815
Yeah but that requires farming if you're buying out shops and doing rosary dump quests.

>>723670496
>you did practically every fight without ever touching your tools and reserved them solely to kill like 1 enemy total out of the entire gauntlet
No, I used tools quite liberally. I just didn't run out of shards because I didn't take "use tools" to mean "use the tool on each enemy until the enemy dies".

>>723670591
Even outside of the fact that you get Clawline well into Act 2, it's not really a ranged attack. It's an engagement tool, but sometimes you very specifically do not want to be next to the enemy. Also if it whiffs you can just get fucked.

>>723670820
I don't follow. Most enemies in the game you're fighting at least a dozen times if not more so you'll know from then on around how many hits it'll take. It's not like you need to go balls to the wall on every enemy you run into either so you don't need to be throwing your tools out right away on every enemy you see.
Even if you did want to go crazy with tools on certain, very specific encounters, you definitely can since your overall shard capacity is something like 400-800 I think.

>>723670782
Unless you're modding the game you don't know if he's one hit from death in the first place, and especially in the context where Big Boy is flanked by minions that one hit opportunity is more than enough to be disproportionately dangerous. Waiting for cycles is begging Murphy's Law to trigger. Unless you already know the fight by heart at which point you can do it with anything so nothing matters. This is pretty basic videogame logic, doing anything else is intentionally gimping yourself for gamer cred points.

You used Hunter the entire game, right anon? You're not some pussy that needs a better moveset or broken abilities, right?

>>723671110
wanderer is superior

>>723671152
Based unga bunga chad.

>>723671110
I did. I also threw all of my tools at every enemy in the game until they died (and a few more after just to be sure) before even considering using my needle.
and yes the game does suck.

>>723671198
yup *cracks open a flintslate* just need to mash as hard as possible and clash all their hitboxes to avoid damage

>>723671074
I specifically mentioned High Halls because the hammer cockroaches are the only room in the game where you see those enemies, and also Beastfly is probably one of the first times you've ever seen vicious caranids before. Right off the bat, what you typed is wrong. Also, I shouldn't have to explain how enemies ganking you provokes FUBAR situations that you'd otherwise never experience with their overworld encounters. This so basic to playing videogames that I can't even believe I'm typing it. What you're describing is an impossibly contrarian rationing of your available powerlevel when shit gets fucked. Trying to claim that this is how the game wants you to play makes it sound cucked as fuck.

>>723670820
>it's not like you even know how close you are
You don't need an HP bar or tons of repeats to be familiar with most of the enemies you're fighting at any given time. How often are you introduced to enemies by being thrown into a gauntlet with them as a regular feature?
>Second, if you're in the middle of a gank, your #1 priority is dropping the number of enemies on the screen.
And doing this entirely with tools is typically foolish, even if it's your "top priority". In the space and time created by a tool use, I can usually close in and kill a member of the gank, then back off and space out the next two.
>They can still wombo combo you. One of the hammer cockroaches needs to die, now. Nuke his ass.
Nope. If I've already used a tool or two on them, then they're definitely within range of dying to the needle, and I'm not going to use tools wastefully if I can help it.
>If the tools aren't nuking, they're not working.
I'm glad none of the tools work by your standards. That sounds really overcentralizing.

>>723670882
>tfw Lace 1 is brain damaged, Moorwing got nerfed and Final Judge is a joke unless you choose not to use the flame charm out of spite
I guess Widow can be difficult if you aren't jumping over her melee attacks.

>>723671336
>What you're describing is an impossibly contrarian rationing of your available powerlevel when shit gets fucked. Trying to claim that this is how the game wants you to play makes it sound cucked as fuck.
Are you sure you meant to respond to my post?

>>723671094
>Unless you're modding the game you don't know if he's one hit from death in the first place
Not precisely, but I've always got a fairly good idea. Especially if I'm using a tool I'm familiar with. I can count my hitsounds.
>Waiting for cycles is begging Murphy's Law to trigger. Unless you already know the fight by heart at which point you can do it with anything so nothing matters.
What the fuck kind of logic is this? If you're not sure what an enemy is doing, you wait out its attacks until it gives you something you KNOW is an opening, you don't turn into a screeching ape and mash attack until it dies.
>This is pretty basic videogame logic,
No clue where you learned yours but it seems faulty.

>>723671584
Yeah, I am.
>If you get ganked just soften them up and then hit them with the nail till they're dead
Is a super contrarian way of using your ranged damage that practically anybody who's played games before would disagree with, and you're only saying that because you don't have the ammo in this case to do anything else. And you've spent a while also explaining how to prioritize targets on top of that because you *really* don't actually have the ammo. That's more than enough justification to say these are pretty cucked at their job. Just compare how this stacks up against tools like Abyss Shriek from the first game. Mega fucking gimped.

>>723649730 (OP)
It demands you utilize your movement abilities, but I didn't find it particularly difficult and I haven't even played the first game. Everybody bitching about it has reminded of just how shit the average person is at games.

The shard system kind of encourages you to dump them in gauntlets or bosses you don't like so they die for you. Like most people I see literally only use them in hard arenas even if it's not being spammed. It's too scarce to use generally

>>723671336
>Also, I shouldn't have to explain how enemies ganking you provokes FUBAR situations that you'd otherwise never experience with their overworld encounters. This so basic to playing videogames that I can't even believe I'm typing it.
Given that something "so basic to playing videogames" is causing you to wildly overspend on resources, and the opinion that shard economy is stingy isn't too popular, it seems more likely that your sense of the "basics of video games" is biased.

>>723671789
seeing how many people got filtered at fucking hunter's march was insane. wow you have to hit like 3 static objects in a row with no enemy presence.

>>723671804
I typically saved my tools for the same things outside of occasional usage while exploring but I still almost always had maxed out Shards past Act 1 and ended the game with 11 Shard bundles and almost all the large ones unused

>>723656828
Thank you for summarising why playing Silksong feels like a slog. Particularly the point about the map, HK feels more cohesive whereas Silksong feels like a bunch of random concepts strung together with the occasional "here is yet another area filled with filth, disease and infested with maggots".

>>723671692
>What the fuck kind of logic is this? If you're not sure what an enemy is doing, you wait out its attacks until it gives you something you KNOW is an opening, you don't turn into a screeching ape and mash attack until it dies.
Or, alternatively, it just dies from your ranged damage so you don't have to do this stupid song and dance in the first place. This sentence is nothing but a failed justification for why it's a good thing that your spells don't do enough damage and don't have the ammo to kill the things they're meant to kill so you have to jump through hoops to finish the job. Take two giant steps back and realize how fucking lame that actually is. Your toolkit in this game sucks unless you blow resources in a wildly unsustainable fashion.

>>723671110
>You're not some pussy that needs a better moveset or broken abilities, right?
Hunter has one of the strongest movesets and abilities in the game

>>723671758
>if I have to conserve ammo and prioritize certain targets, I'm just not going to use ammo! This is shit game design!
You're retarded.

>>723671301
*Switches to Wanderer Crest*
*Puts on Weighted Belt*
*Blows on lucky pair of Magnetite Dice*
*Equips Longclaw*
*Fastens Pin Badge to cloak*
*Ignites Flintslate*

Yup, it's gaming time.

>>723661478
I'm not encouraged to use tools on normal enemies because shards are so scarce and deposits never respawn.

>>723672130
No, I am going to use the ammo, and I'm going to then talk about how fucking gay it is that your ammo is so strictly limited because it makes the game feel like ass to play. Dumbass.

>>723672037
>le why are these areas that are connected share a similar theme reeeee hollow knight was much more cohesive than this!
We're reaching retardation levels that shouldn't be possible.

Imagine doing a tool build when you can just spam spells with no long term resource loss.

I liked both games.

>>723671917
The shard system is widely considered to be an L on the game's record for the reasons I'm describing, you're the contrarian one here for trying to defend it.

>>723671979
Yeah you collect a ton if you use it for just nuking some encounters. But you spend more than half the game exploring tho so you barely use them while roaming in that case. cool downs and carry limits would make them always viable. the shards are just so annoying

>>723672053
>Or, alternatively, it just dies from your ranged damage
And why would I waste the shards on that when the enemy has to get close again and then telegraph an attack in order to threaten me? It has to open itself up to take the lethal blow to do anything more. That's a win condition.
>but I'm not familiar with it yet!
Then hang back and play safe. You will be next time.
>BUT I WANNA NUKE IT WITH ABYSS SHRIEK WAAAAAHHHHHHHH TOOLS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A NEEDLE REPLACEMENT
Please stop making your disability my problem.

>>723672183
Why even play the game if you have no intention of engaging with the primary combat system. The tools are very clearly meant to be a supplementary damage source.

Any argument regarding shards is pointless because they decided to pull the triple whammy of retardation by 1) making spikes and other hazards destroy shards and rosaries, 2) making the magnet not work on shards, and 3) making shards fly everywhere whenever you try to mine them. The result is that unless you get one of the breakable shard items, farming shards off exploration and killing enemies is too pitiful to be worthwhile. It's the single biggest miss in their game design and fixing it would solve a lot of frustration with the shard system while making exploration more viable when it came to replenishing shards.

>>723672349
filtered lamo

>>723672252
*gets hit* whoops there goes that silk, better start saving back up wagie

Silksong would be a better game if they upped the baseline shard drops by like 30% and the baseline money drops by like 20%.
It's weird because HK itself actually handled money fairly well, you never really had to grind for it but you didn't really have too much until the very end of the game when you probably should be swimming in money.

>>723649730 (OP)
Overall no but there are some pretty tough battles and bosses, particularly the Chorus senate battle and the final boss.

>>723672360
>Why would I have the enemy die at range when it and/or its friends could be given another chance to attack me?
lmao you are not a real person, close the tab and reset your spine because it's bent too far backwards trying to defend this clunky jank and it's affecting the blood flow to your brain.

>>723672487
>HK itself actually handled money fairly well
No it didn't.

>NOOOO I CAN'T JUST SPAM MY TOOLS AND TRIVIALIZE EVERYTHING
>NOOOOO I HAVE TO MANAGE MY RESOURCES
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO GO GET MORE SHARDS BECAUSE I WASTED THEM ALL INSTEAD OF SPENDING TIME LEARNING THE BOSS FIGHTS!
>AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII SAVE ME PALE KING

>>723672398
i finished the game i just gave up on using tools even if stuff like trifold and throwing pins are fun

>>723672367
>erm if you expect consistent ranged damage tools to work like usual in videogame design ydbtg
lol

>>723672553
>MAKE IT DIE NOW NOW NOW NOW OR IT'S NOT SAFE REEEEE MAKE ME SAFE
Stop letting the ape brain control you while you're having fun.

>>723672589
How so? I can't really call you a retard if you won't even commit to "I had too much money xD I'm just too epic" or "I'm a bad player that kept running out of money".

>>723672487
they made too many items be at shops. you have to spend thousands just on base kit upgrades much less actual items

>>723656763
>Being hit waste the comited 9 silk. No refunds.
Actually you lose ALL of your silk, even the reserves that would've been left over had the heal gone off succesfully.

>>723672610
>>723672654
uh oh YDBTGfaggot melty

>>723672696
I don't disagree with that actually, but that's less a money issue and more an over-reliance on a lame method of acquiring items.

>>723672651
>t. average dark souls mage
I hope you're trolling anon, and if so well done.

>>723672349
>cool downs and carry limits would make them always viable
They already have carry limits. cooldowns would suck. Wasting 200 shards in 12 seconds is fun.

>>723672780
yeah they could have simply had these items drop from bosses, instead of dropping literally nothing.

>>723672694
The rosary drops are i think. Hollow Knight geo came by way too easily, way too early in the game. Rosaries are generally always relevant>>723672696

>>723672610
>NOOOO I CAN'T JUST SPAM MY TOOLS AND TRIVIALIZE EVERYTHING
You can, the retarded shard design doesn't prevent that, it just makes using tools on a blind playthrough a less enjoyable experience. You can't really rely on a tool build because you'd be doing so with the knowledge that you could just hit a wall and run out of resources, forcing you to either do an absurdly obnoxious grind or completely change your playstyle. That's really the reason why I personally didn't go with the tool build, it just sounded annoying to deal with.

>>723672829
>He's an unironic NO SHIELD NO MAGIC NO ARMOR NO UPGRADES 2HANDED ZWEI ONLY dark souls fag
lmao, stop sweating the pve so hard and do the actual pvp in these games. you'll find out how strong magic is, especially in Elden Ring

>>723672882
>Rosaries are generally always relevant
They fall off just as hard as geo does, the main difference in my personal experience was that I never had to actually go out and grind geo in the same way I just had to drop everything for like 10 minutes and grind rosaries. Especially obnoxious if you reached an area with a shop but all the surrounding enemies just didn't drop any cash.

>>723672651
>usual video game design is when the devs give me ranged damage on a cooldown so I can indefinitely play keep away while not spending the resource I need to heal either
It's fine to take "openings" that require tools to do damage within, it's not fine to take them every time they pop up. You always have your needle. You don't need to make kills so fast they require tools. It's that simple.

>>723673006
You never "have to" grind rosaries unless you die and lose your cocoon multiple times while hoarding.

>>723671758
>If you get ganked just soften them up and then hit them with the nail till they're dead
But I never said that.

>>723673085
There is quite literally not enough rosaries through artifacts, quest rewards and breakable objects in the map to purchase everything.

>>723672882
Hollow Knight gave you tons of geo because it was balanced around you not knowing how to play the game, assuming you'd be dropping your souls somewhat regularly, and so they gave a safety factor in the early game money drops so it wouldn't be too punishing. In contrast, Silksong expects you to play practically perfectly, in terms of never once dropping souls and finding all hidden money stashes, for the right to only grind like 4k geo instead of like 10k geo. IMO its one more evidence that their playtesting got too incestuous and relied too heavily on feedback from testers who already had explored the overworld for hundreds of hours at that point.

>>723673006
I died with fat stacks of Rosaries twice and I never had to grind. If I can't afford something I just move on with my life and keep playing and then I could typically buy it when I got back later

>>723672173
>three knives cost only three shards
Unless you wanted to exclusively use tools and nothing else, seems good to me.

>>723671758
>it's contrarian to care about ammo efficiency at all if the enemies can possibly die even a second sooner
Sorry, no, I'm just not subject to whatever mental illness you are.

>>723672940
It's literally the equivalent of an easy mode, on this we agree. So now that we both understand that you're complain that silksong doesn't have a blanket easy mode I'm going to simply call you a shitter and move on with my day.

>>723673231
>Unless you wanted to exclusively use tools and nothing else,
But that's the whole point of tools! You spam them at an enemy until it dies then you go to the next enemy and repeat!

>>723673006
I could get everything I needed through the questing and backtracking by generally killing stuff. I never farmed specifically for rosaries but I am missing a few charms. Emptying out all the shops requires grinding im p sure but I don't really take issue with that for 100% completion. The shard system is sloppa still tho

>>723672651
I'm glad other games don't have ammo, that'd be awful.

>>723673085
I never lost a single rosary in my playthrough, I'm a souls fan I know how to do a fucking corpse run.
I still had to grind for rosaries in several areas, like when you first meet Shakra you've only just started running into enemies that actually drop rosaries, so you're forced to just grind a bit if you actually want to buy your basic starting map shit. I also grinded a bit in the Citadel to start being able to afford some of the better items I had skipped out on or to complete those retarded donation quests. Really I wasn't able to start buying out shops entirely late Act 2 into Act 3, and even then by the end of the game I still wasn't exactly sitting on a pile of rosaries. I dunno, maybe you just did a bunch of unintentional grinding taking your sweet time to beat the game, but I never felt like I was ever getting enough rosaries when it actually mattered.

>>723649730 (OP)
Well, yeah. Quite often due to poor balance

>>723673198
lmao at this fanboy bullshit answer.
>uhhh it's not actually a problem if I just come back in 20 hours.

>>723673356
>so you're forced to just grind a bit if you actually want to buy your basic starting map shit.
Or you could do the top half of mosshome right next to her and immediately organically have enough rosaries to buy all her shit

>>723673321
>use gun you like until it's out of ammo
>switch to next gun you like
>repeat
>bitch and moan if you don't have any ammo for a gun you like
Sound like anyone in this thread?

>>723673085
You're supposed to play the game avoiding enemies, not opening chests and not picking up those rosaries you find in jars/tied to ropes.
You also need to buyout every item as soon as it becomes available.

>>723673267
Elden Ring easy mode is a poisetank UGS build though, pure magic is way harder. You've gotten your memes mixed up old man. You really really need to play against other humans because getting this protective over beating up the AI that's meant to be beaten is shameful. At least get into something like 2hu where the true end is an actual unironic filter.

>>723673231
1 straightpin is 3 shards. Threefold is 4

>>723673502
>Threefold is 4
my mistake

>>723673321
The tools already have ammo on a per-life basis, you also just have an extremely overly strict permanent ammo loss on top of it in the background to make sure you can't use that ammo consistently where it counts.

What would you like to see expanded on in a DLC?

>>723673606
>games with resource management
That's awful. Why can't games be more like movies where I can just watch it and not have to think about those things.

What retard says you don't have to grind rosaries in this game? It's mathematically impossible to not grind. You physically do not get enough rosaries to buy out all the vendors even if you find every single stash in the world and never drop once. This also doesn't even count extra expenses like shard bundles. If you didn't find yourself grinding that's only because you were autistically killing overworld mobs on runbacks to arenas or bosses you were dying way more often to than normal, instead of running back like a normal person or beating the encounters in a reasonable number of attempts. Which is grinding.

>>723673502
but they dont always connect and they kinda just decay your supply through occasional use unless they're uses to spam certain bosses / gauntlets exclusively

>>723673606
>extremely overly strict permanent ammo loss
it's only remotely strict in the beginning of the game and even then not for long. You just had a skill issue.

>>723673797
>dude le wacky strawman argument
Are you done being mindbroken yet? This is pathetic.

>>723673821
>it's grinding to take more than 2-3 attempts without just rushing past the enemies
Fuck off, if I'm in a deathloop I'm at least making it profitable.

>>723673861
>they kinda just decay your supply through occasional use unless they're uses to spam certain bosses / gauntlets exclusively
Didn't have the same experience but then I didn't focus on straightpin as an island of balance. I found it a slightly underwhelming tool, even if it was very cheap.

What's funny about tools is that I've seen streamers hop off megaman, where they were playing around the weapon energy gimmick, and log into silksong within either the exact same stream or back to back sessions, and they then immediately complain about how ass the shards system feels even though the shards were clearly inspired by that same megaman gimmick. The balancing around the cost:damage ratio is just fucked up.

>>723673797
No he's right, the shards are a pointless system given that they already restrict how many items you can use per rest. If that limitation wasn't strict enough, they could have simply reduced that limit rather than adding a second consumable item system. Alternatively, they could have made using a tool cost 1 silk. This would also make Hornet's suggestion that she could just will an everbloom flower into existence make more since, if she had already spent the whole game manifesting physical objects with her silk.

>>723673821
>needing to buy shard bundles to the extent you would go out of your way to include it
>meaning you're not blasting through the game and need to kill enemies several times already
>"I just run past enemies"
oh ok

>>723674010
their costs seem to be based on their base carry capacities. it literally does like 1 nail hit of damage and you slowly go using it. threefold is better but you still go broke. the others are just way too expensive outside of arenas

>>723674135
No dude it's actually really hard to manage shard usage. I saw a small enemy not really going out of its way to attack me and I just HAD to spend fifty shards on killing it.

>>723674176
>Anon's reply is saying that TC wants you to make the boss runbacks EVEN LONGER by having to kill all the enemies on the way every time, otherwise you're broke
That's so fucking funny it doesn't seem serious.

>>723674264
That's strange because I wasn't the one who claimed to be spending rosaries on shard bundles.

Is there some sort of glitch with the Craw Summons? I'm pretty sure I pulled the lever back in Act 1 (death cycled to the gauntlet for a while to make sure I kept my rosaries, then grabbed Thread Storm immediately afterwards) and I've sat down at the relevant benches like fifteen times since starting Act 3, with hearts/everbloom a lot of the time. But I still can't get them for some reason.

*floats cutely near u*
*backdashes*
hehehe

>>723673312
>I could get everything I needed through the questing and backtracking by generally killing stuff.
You must have done a lot of backtracking then.

>>723673445
A full round through the entirety of Mosshome only nets you around 100 rosaries (which isn't a good farm, and you'll likely be doing this in the around 30 or so rosary bottom half), not nearly enough for the 210 rosaries you have to spend to get your basic starting shit from Shakra. That's on top of anything you might want to buy from the first merchant.
Leave it to Team Cherry fanboys to not even know the game they're defending.

>>723674252
I barely used tools ever so I didn't even think about shards. But if it's trivial to manage even if you DO use tools often, again, WHY are they in the game? They aren't doing anything but adding a looming ticking clock element for no real reason. It's like item durability, it's shit if it's generous enough to not matter and even more shit if it's functioning as intended. Tools should have been made from silk.

>>723673356
>I dunno, maybe you just did a bunch of unintentional grinding taking your sweet time to beat the game
At no point did I intentionally go out to grind enemies unless it was for a separate wish, but I also did not see the point in just ignoring enemies I knew had rosaries while I was going around doing stuff. If you want to call "playing the game" grinding then that's you.

>>723649803
You joke but I actually do. I daily post on the Yu-Gi-Oh general, blue archive general and the dalle AI general.
My autism likes the comfort of known spaces.

>>723674423
Simply use your Act 2 needle throw to hit them as they're backing up, bro.

>>723674135
Shards aren't a pointless system since technically it's a resource for architect, but I still feel fine saying that the low drop rate makes the tool build undesirable for anyone but either sweaty quick kill fags that already know the game or niggas that spend so much time autistically killing the same mobs over and over that they don't even realize the drop rate sucks.

>>723674754
Bro it doesn't work when they wiggle UPWARDS

>>723674535
aren't you talking about 100% clearing out every merchant? yeah that requires grinding but that's completionist, you can get like 90% under normal play. i dunno how that's a huge issue

>>723674535
Just going through the opening of the marrow gets you 103 rosaries. A short detour before going to shakra's room gets you a frayed rosary string and there are 30 more in the bottom right of her room. That's not quite enough to buy everything, but going through upper moss home, you'll get ~40 from enemies, another frayed rosary, and a small cache of rosaries. If you go down to activate the elevator, you get another small cache of rosaries, and if you go right along the path after the elevator to get to the silk spindle, you'll find a final much larger cache of rosaries. Finally, if you got both mossberries in the tutorial, you can pick up 2 more in upper moss home to get the druid's eye and then sell the 4th one for over 100 rosaries. In total it's over 400, without killing a single enemy twice.

>>723674668
I didn't use the word intentionally retard.
>but I also did not see the point in just ignoring enemies I knew had rosaries while I was going around doing stuff.
I stand by what I said, and it's not like I just ran past everything. I just wasn't shit enough at the game that I needed to do a ton of runs through areas I guess.

>>723674798
>aren't you talking about 100% clearing out every merchant?
Honestly no, obviously you're not going to do that until you have extra money. I mean just getting basic good shit when you find it, plenty of upgrades are locked behind price tags and you have multiple donation quests on top of that.

>>723674945
>if you played the game you're actually shit!
Yawn

>>723674775
They could have just as easily put a limit on how many times you can refill tools on architect before you need to sit at a bench. Most bosses die in at most 3 refills and that's even if you're missing some shots.

>>723674775
Architect is the Guidereader build. Its for when you're sick of a boss and look up the guide for how to evaporate it next attempt because you just want to be done. The resource consumption is simply too strict to experiment with unless this is your NG++ attempt or you're in a discord checking the spreadsheets with other theorycrafters.

>>723674978
Or it can be based on how prepared you are going into the fight, reflected by the amount of shards you have.

>>723674784
Just use your double jump (you did clear the ice part of the slab, right) and match their elevation for needle use.

>>723674664
No dude you're right it's actually really trivial. It's either impossible or a joke with no in-between you're so right dude.

>>723674967
He's right if you died so many times consistently to encounters, clearing every single enemy every single time instead of just running back, something was deeply wrong with your playthrough. A ton of hard bosses have practically 0 enemies between them. Like, Unravelled has 0 enemies between him and you. Making up the rosary difference that you normally have to grind for through Full Clear Runbacks and general backtracking is wild. That rosary difference isn't small either, it's several thousand rosaries assuming perfect map exploration. It'd probably take you way longer to do that than just grind the rosaries in some efficient farming spot anyway.

>>723675115
The in between is also bad because combat resources that don't refresh on benching is bad

>>723649730 (OP)
Watch my friend slam his face into last judge for an hour yesterday
Its hard for some people

>>723649730 (OP)
Hard like my dick, amirite??

>>723675253
>He's right if you died so many times consistently to encounters
Which I didn't so you can stop making things up.

>>723675312
If you didn't skip Judge by going in the back entrance you didn't actually beat the game.

how does it compare to the original hk in difficulty including godhome and all that

>>723675420
All of Hollow Knight through Pantheon of the Knight is the tutorial for Silksong.

>>723675397
nta but you just said you never had money issues because you were killing everything on every runback. So either you're
A. Killing everything on multiple boss runs, which in turn means you were doing a shit ton of boss runbacks
or
B. You autistically "explored" the same areas over and over while also going to objectives in the most round about way you could manage, likely wasting several hours on your own autism.
Neither is a good look or a good example of a "standard" gameplay experience.

NAOOOO

Why is most of complaints about this game related to blatant skill issues or unwillingness to engage in all of the game's mechanics

>>723675532
>because you were killing everything on every runback
No, I didn't. Again, stop making things up because you don't have an argument.

>>723675420
It's much harder than base HK but nothing gets as hard as Pantheon or PoP.

>>723675560
>You can't criticize the game because you're bad at it
>You can't criticize the game because you're too good, which means you miss out on resources and get an unintended experience
Which is it, faggot?

>>723675420
Harder at the start. Gets easier the more abilities and tools you get. Difficulty spike in act 3 because it assumes you've gotten most upgrades. HK's DLC is harder but SS doesn't have DLC yet.

>>723675616
>stop making things up because you don't have an argument.
Kind of like what you're doing?

>>723675637
The first one.

>>723675560
It's the same as any game that isn't completely trivial to beat, faggots have to lie and make excuses for their own dogshit gameplay and refusal to try to improve

>>723675560
You just answered your own question with the reductive use of "skill issue." It's a hard game. It asks you to be applying your brain more or less 100% of the time as opposed to 50% of the time like other games. It's arguable that this is poor pacing, and I'm only saying that because other champions of the genre have slow points.

Silksong is an exercise in CBT, which doesn't necessarily mean it's bad but a lot of people don't like having their balls repeatedly hammered when they make a mistake.

>>723675697
>Harder at the start. Gets easier the more abilities and tools you get.
Honestly I think I died more in Act 1 than I did in my entire HK playthrough. You're right that it gets easier but Act 1 of SS is an awful experience.

>>723675701
>"nuh uh, le uno card! xD"

Silksong is the Elden Ring to Hollow Knight's Dark Soul.

>>723675729
I'd say you only really have to apply your brain like 50% of the time in Silksong, as opposed to the 10% in other games. Bosses, new enemies and new platforming segments, everything else can be run on autopilot.

>>723675808
I told you I had to grind at certain parts of the game to afford things like quests or upgrades, someone got pissy and started playing the "uhhh you just played wrong xD" card. If you want to be an obnoxious fanboy you can do so, but it's probably not healthy to get so invested in a game that any criticism bothers you to this extent.

>>723675962
You're not wrong, but mostly in that ER is a pretty shitty game that doesn't respect your time.

>>723676043
Silksong is still less bad about it than Elden Ring.

>>723675989
>"nuh uh, ur le fanboy! xD"

>>723675729
What makes Silksong CBT isn't the fact that it requires 100% brain usage, its the fact that the devs are going out of their way to troll you at all times, which for such a long fucking game really starts grinding on you after a point. All of the cointhieving arcade games they're modeling this troll philosophy on were only like 1/10th as long as Silksong is and the kind of high intensity trolling wears out its welcome when stretched out over such a longer experience.

>>723675560
Why is everyone defending this game refusing to engage with the actual criticism and instead just pretending it's difficulty complaints?

>>723676473
Because the criticism mostly amounts to complaints about difficulty.

>>723676473
It's the same shit with Elden Ring discussion, fanboys will take the easy way out and just use strawman arguments rather than admit that the thing they like isn't perfect.

>>723676473
Probably because the "actual criticism" is just several different flavors of difficulty complaints. Retards like you just twist the definition of difficulty because you're losers with no pride or sense of accountability, and it can never be your fault that you're not good enough at something.

>>723676473
>actual criticism
Name one

>>723672173
Consider the following: Stop being a massive shitter and using tools as a crutch to cheese bosses you aren't good enough to beat. Someone in your formative years (your missing father, probably) should've encouraged you to be less of a massive pussy.

>>723676706
Lack of resources in the game if you don't kill enemies over and over (this doesn't count as grinding btw because I said so)
Tedious design with loads of fetch quests, mmo style grinding quests, and other such quests that mostly just exist as a cheap way of reusing levels in an inorganic way.
Poor balance makes the early game much tougher than the late game thanks to the way upgrades and your expanded arsenal improve your ability to kill things.
It's a game that feels much better than HK to play, but also takes several steps back on HK's already mediocre game design.

>>723676923
So his criticism of tool design is void because... engaging with the tool mechanic is bad?
Interesting defense of a game with said mechanic, anon.

>>723675560
Because people only cry about accessibility, handholding and dumbing down games until they actually have to play one.
Then they wonder why games like RDR 2, TLoU and GoW that play themselves keep getting made.

>>723677070
>Tedious design with loads of fetch quests, mmo style grinding quests, and other such quests that mostly just exist as a cheap way of reusing levels in an inorganic way.
those fetch quests are there to force you to stop and grind at least a few times so the shard/rosary economy is slightly less dogshit

I always thought the beginning of hollow knight sucked precisely because of how open it is. you get no direction at all and 3 areas to explore, and frequently you have to slowly walk your ass from one side of the map to the other to progress the game. I'll gladly take a more linear start over that.

>>723677070
>Lack of resources in the game
At what point in the game are you being gated by "resources" and is this after having opened all the chests and so on?
>Tedious design with loads of fetch quests, mmo style grinding quests
Are you doing these quests only after you have fully explored an area normally and if so, why?
>Poor balance makes the early game much tougher than the late game
What are you struggling with specifically?

>>723677146
Couldn't they just remove them and then make the economy less dogshit?
I guess then they couldn't artificially pad out the game.

>>723677070
>Lack of resources in the game if you don't kill enemies over and over
False, there's plenty of resources if you're not trying to buy everything all at once.
>Tedious design with loads of fetch quests, mmo style grinding quests
How are you lacking resources if you're doing quests?
>Poor balance makes the early game much tougher
The early game is only "tough" because you're not familiar with it. if you played the game more than the token one time, you'd know it's actually laughably easy.

>>723677320
Yes, they could have. But then the game would be 1% less punishing, and since they wanted the game to be hard more than they wanted it to be fun, this is unacceptable.

>>723649730 (OP)
Video-game difficulty is a subjective measurement based on the intelligence of the player. Cheaper games are more likely to be bought by unintelligent people because unintelligent people are usually poor. Hence, people are more likely to complain about cheaper games being difficult then pricier games.

>>723677291
>>723677349
Holy fanboy.
I like the condescending "uhh what are you struggling with sweety" response as if I haven't already beaten your shit game.

>>723649730 (OP)
It gets easier when you start getting tools that are actually useful but you are locked out of it for the first couple hours of the game

>>723677320
>loads of fetch quests are just two or three quests per hub to kill 10 mobs
>you do that normally anyway and generally see some sort of visual reflection of having done the quest
I really don't see why they bother you so much, it's just an excuse to play the game. If you hate playing the game, why are you playing it? For the story?
I'm just asking because there's actually a medium for enjoying a story without having to directly interact with and move it forward, they're called books/movies.

No you don't get it, I HAVE to be able to buy EVERYTHING the moment I get to a vendor. If I can't, then I HAVE to grind until I can buy everything, and that's BAD GAME DESIGN. No game ever has been based around the concept of having to actually CHOOSE what you buy instead of being able to get EVERYTHING right away.

why didn't the knight just kill everyone from the start and save hornet some trouble

>>723677414
So what's your excuse for ER?

>>723677448
>If you hate playing the game, why are you playing it?
Honestly, for context. If everyone is making such a big fucking deal over the game I might as well pirate it and see what all the fuss is about. Frankly, wasn't impressed.

>>723677415
Holy cope.
I like how you whinge about people not engaging with your skill issues and then start pissing your pants when we do.

>>723677415
>makes vague and general claim
>get asked to substantiate
>"I'm actually shitposting guys I wasn't being serious"
If you say so. I'll discuss the game with someone who can actually do more than 'pretend' to be retarded.

>>723677496
Bro you can literally play the game perfectly and you'll still be like 6000 rosaries short, why the fuck are you making this the hill you want to die on? Are you stupid?

>>723677579
You didn't say anything of substance, you just deflected three times in a row.

>>723677531
>Honestly, for context. If everyone is making such a big fucking deal over the game
I've played enough games to know what I like and have more than enough games that I do not need to spend hours playing games just because other people seem to talk about them a lot.

Enemies twimsting around in whimsical ways makes me very upset

they all do this
i am very mad right now

>>723677646
And this is why people just call your complaining a skill issue.

>>723649730 (OP)
>Struggle with boss
>Get enough silk to bind
>Run into a corner
>Press B
>Get attacks
>Honey yell
CRRRIIIINGE
>Close game
>Uninstall
>The fucking nerve

>/v/ is playing through the game during early-mid September
>The most common piece of advice given in the threads is "dude just take a break take a break take a break take a break" because the game is incredibly obnoxious and your biggest enemy while playing it is burnout
>/v/ finishes the game
>pretends that there's nothing wrong with it and that its all just skill issues
why lie?

>>723677616
You, personally, did not play the game perfectly, so you, personally, are not in a position to make that claim.

>>723677795
You don't have to play perfectly to get bitten by the rosary grind because without perfect play your rosary count will be lower than the theoretical maximum and your grind burden is bigger. Perfect play is the smallest possible amount of grinding. Again, really stupid hill to die on.

tool balance + shards + act 3 are the biggest issues tbqh. not being able to buy out shops by the end isnt that bad. hollow knight had the fragile charm geo sinks.

>>723677883
>without perfect play your rosary count will be lower than the theoretical maximum
Only if you're constantly losing cocoons, when the game literally gives you free silkeaters a third of the way into the game, while also simultaneously hoarding all your rosaries instead of spending them on the things you claim you need to spend them on.

>>723676706
I'm the anon you replied to. Criticisms:

After the mood shift of voiding the map wears off, it quickly becomes apparent it downgrades the overworld. Pharloom starts looking and sounding the same, and voidmobs are really tedious to interact with.

Lace is a weak final boss and overall weak character, which brings down act 3 and the ending because it revolves around her.
The shard system doesn't work well for most players because good players can just beat bosses without tools, while noobs just keep slamming their head against the hard parts of the game losing hundreds of shards for nothing.

The rewards are pretty weak most of the time. Beating the gauntlet + double boss of Hunter's March produces less resources than 90 seconds of farming would give you.

For a game that's supposedly about song and music, the diegetical music part is kind of weak. Note that I'm not referring to the OST, but the way music in-universe works. Arguably the most important plot beat involves learning the 3 parts of the threefold melody, integral to the secret of the game's entire civilization, and the fact no part of this musical melody was catchy or memorable speaks volumes.

Crests are unbalanced and in their current form, some of them just seem to be in the game for shits and giggles rather than being a legitimate viable gameplay choice.

The upgrades are kind of underwhelming. Hornet's power growth is extremely incremental and gradual which means there's never really an "oh shit this changes the whole game!" upgrade moment you usually see in metroidvanias. Faydown cloak also messes with some of the platforming.

>>723649730 (OP)
Mostly no. I suck at vidya and got this after just a couple of tries. There's a few somewhat difficult parts in an overall fairly easy game.
Won't be going for the steel soul 100% because i don't have the patience to 100% this game again.

>>723669651
Cracked mask and the one that speeds up healing are things everyone should consider when they look at the blues

>>723676706
Some bosses immediately pop up in front of you just after dodging one of their attacks, which forces you to take damage. This coupled with so much shit going on screen can make it difficult to react even if you did have a little bit more time to dodge the boss popping up

>>723677975
There's virtually no boss runbacks in the game that dispense rosaries enough to remotely match a farm spot (assuming you full clear boss runbacks every time which is retarded), and you shouldn't be dying that much to random overworld spots either. This would take way longer than actually just fighting through the level and grinding later. This goes beyond "non-perfect" play and strays into "weird edge case that only 1% of possible players ever encountered." Not at all representative of a typical playthrough. TLDR see >>723675253

I struggled at the start but from about greymoor onwards it was mostly fine except for getting stuck at lost lace for a bit. I really think all this reeing about difficulty comes from soulsfags that don't want to explore, don't want to use tools or binds and just want to spend 6 hours running headfirst into a wall and cry about how it's "the wrong kind of hard"

>>723678383
I've been talking about tools being a dogshit system all thread and Lost Lace was the only fight in the game that took me more than 30 minutes to beat. I've played enough videogames to know when the devs are fucking with me for the sake of being annoying little shits, and SS is one of the most extremist examples of it in modern times.

>>723670316
Then you literally only used it in single instances on bosses because mathematically you will be at a deficit given the damage they do vs the enemy health pool throughout the game vs the cost of each tool

>>723649730 (OP)
A lot of people here like this cock measuring contest on how its not hard... and lets be fair, its not "hard" but it is tedious which to me and a lot of others fall under the label hard. I was just starting to have fun around the end of act 2 when I upgrded my nail to the max, just to get weak all over again in act 3 where every mob gets a void power up.

Yea sure, the they arent "HARD" but Im sorry, I find it very annoying that i have to hit every fucking mob 7+ times and majority of those mobs have a annoying moveset where combined with small room, several mobs, projectiles it just becomes a grind to survive. I just bean the void ants gauntlet before the ant queen fight and I dont feel like I won at all. I just feel I got lucky. None of them are hard as much as they are annoying...

>>723670591
>costs silk
El oh el
If Im using silk for anything but healing I might as well full spec into a volt-shaman build, which is what I did to delete Karmelita and Lost Lace, fuck clawline get a bigger dick

>>723677531
I've seen a way lower percentage of ER players pissing and shitting about it then Silksong players so it holds up

>>723678242
>There's virtually no boss runbacks blah blah blah
You're the only one mentioning these.

>>723670815
Even with the tool that boosts the droprate it’s so pitiful the amount you get from enemies you’re better off farming rosaries to buy then

>>723678647
clawline is good though. it doesnt cost silk on hitting enemies. you end up positive.

>>723678734
You did by bringing up dropping your cocoons, which means you're talking about recovering the rosary deficit from dying and re-clearing zones. Im pointing out that this implies you're dying so often it ceases being "not optimal" play and becomes "holy shit what are you doing" play. Stop deflecting.

>>723678647
>doesn't know that you get the silk back when it connects with an enemy
ISHYGDDT

>>723678752
NTA but there is a caveat to that. It ends up being silk-neutral only if you land both hits of the clawline strike. In cases where the enemy teleports away after just 1/2 of those hits (First Sinner is a great example) you'll still lose silk per clawline contact even if you don't miss.

>>723678635
It's a metroidvania. You get your Act III nail upgrade and it's business as usual.

>>723678902
Jesus fuck, you're the one who brought up "perfect play" to begin with. I'm simply pointing out that, even for "imperfect play," a massive rosary deficit is only going to happen for players who lose their cocoons while also hoarding. Stop projecting.

>>723673085
Absolutely wrong when multiple items even before the halfway point can cost close to 1000 rosaries

Everyone talks about how dogshit Act 3 is
How would you fix it? Or would you get rid of it completely and improve Act 2?, What about making a new Act 3 or doing an Act 4 so Act 3 is no longer a disappointing ending?
How would you fix Silksong in the DLC Anon?

>>723679142
>a massive rosary deficit is only going to happen for players who lose their cocoons while also hoarding.
The point is that no amount of "natural" hoarding overcomes this deficit due to how fucking big it is unless you do a bunch of extremely contrarian shit in addition to dying a crazy amount of times, and you not realizing that means you're the one who did this. Your playthrough was fucking freakish you autist. Aint nobody out there besides you clearing every single mob between the bench and Last Judge every single time like you apparently did.

>>723649730 (OP)
Nah, as long as the player uses all the movement options that are available the game is pretty fair.
If someone plays it like regular HK they're gonna get wrecked

>>723679281
they just repurposed cut content in a weird way because it was expedient. it's not dogshit, just undercooked. there are no new areas. the abyss and verdania barely count.

>>723679281
Act 3's biggest problem is that you're really burnt out by how big Acts 1 and 2 are by the time you see it. The amount of people who see the Flea Festival and think "oh god damn it I just want to be done" speaks for itself. There's nothing wrong with Flea Festival. If you beat Act 2, take a 3-4 day break, and come back, you have lots of fun. This can be demonstrated objectively by comparing streamers who only play the game once per week against those who grinded the game out on launch. Unfortunately, this means there's no quick fix to Act 3 because it would mean restructuring the rest of the game up to that point.

>>723649730 (OP)
Yes. It takes obvious design cues from retro games which some would describe as tedious. I didn't mind it, and I like that it doesn't hold your hand - but an astute player can still break the game with the right crest setup, late game.
I really liked:
>act 1 is balls hard and you really feel like a weak hornet, but the game gives you just enough tools to overcome the bosses (ehem fire resist tool).
>that upgrades are gated behind challenging side quests
>I love how the game sets up your expectation on how unforgiving the world is, eg hunters march bench, brutal runbacks, hard gauntlets (high halls). AND THEN plays on this expectation of yours several times, such as the rasher side quest, and the flea festival start.
>the game is designed not as a boss wall, but as a boss + something else as a challenge. Either the runback or a gauntlet typically.

>>723679336
The point is that the average player, and that goes for me as well, is not going to be hoarding rosaries that badly because they'll actually be spending them. You know, the thing that you say you """NEED""" to grind for? To spend? As in not have those rosaries anymore? Because they're spent on items? My point is that a player will only have a rosary deficit if they BOTH a) play very badly multiple times, AND b) aren't doing the thing that you said they need to do in the first place.

>>723679196
see >>723677496

>>723679084
But thats the thing. Its a flaw in metroidvania, its suppose to have old enemys be weak at end game, not strong again. Plus there is only one nail upgrade left and its locked behind a tedious flee search, where unlike in HK you never get a map to see where all the missed grubs are....

>>723679281
Move some quests and areas from Act 2 to 3, make killing void nests have some actual impact on the world (like reducing void enemies), change Void Lace part 2 to Void Silk, give Silk Soar some actual utility in combat and traversal.

>>723679709
They'll be spending them and then they won't have enough to buy things because you can't get more than 3 merchants into the game before you start seeing price tags of 300+ rosaries per item, which may as well be infinity bajillion dollars per thing relative to your income. And we're talking basic upgrades that are useful at anytime like mask shards and memory lockets. "Hoarding" in this instance just means "total accumulated income." You stupid bitch. Shut the fuck up and stop being so offensively braindead.

>>723679657
i think it feels draining because it's just a boss rush and some empowered enemies with slop void attacks in between backtracking. if it had the right balance of exploration / combat as the previous acts it wouldve been goated. there aren't enough wormways level changes to justify backtracking.

>>723679936
see >>723677496
You are offensively braindead when it comes to basic game design.

>>723679281
>how to fix act 3
Give Hornet silk soar and the dream nail equivalent in act 2 so you can gather hearts while exploring the area
Make the minigames for the flea festival optional and not gate the reward of finding all the fleas behind more busywork
Remove the act 3 title and have it be an extension of act 2

crystal dash > silk soar

>>723679945
it isn't a boss rush? exploring for the hearts, and getting to the surface was really fun. the void area was a bit disappointing though.
act 3 length is fine imo, it is supposed to be shorter than the first two acts by virtue of game time alone, I was already at around 50 hours when act 3 started iirc.

>>723680025
>Get to Forge Daughter
>"That'll be 200 rosaries for this essential upgrade item you need right now"
>"Sorry that'll be another 400 rosarydoos for these essential upgrades that you want right now"
>Get to Frey
>"Sorry bro that'll be 750 rosarydoos for these essential upgrades that you want right now"
>Also you'll be spending 150-200 rosaries per zone on benches, maps, and fast travel stations
You are absolutely 100% financially raped up the ass even in act 1 for basic upgrades, don't give me this "dude what do you mean you want to have core powerups" bullshit. These numbers are just for crafting kits, tool pouches, etc. The only thing offensively braindead here are the stupid faggots who let the sunk cost fallacy force them to defend this nonsense.

>>723680360
despite the significant surface level similarities, they aren't really equivalents
Silksong's Crystal Dash is Clawline

>>723680413
>essential upgrade item you need right now
Wrong

>>723680369
yeah srry, i mean you're really just rushing the objectives in act 3. i tried exploring a bit but it's a waste. the abyss was total ass too even if escape was cool.

>>723680515
>nyooooooooo you don't NEED shards, silk, tool damage, or charms!
eat shit

>>723679934
>make killing void nests have some actual impact on the world (like reducing void enemies)
It does. It removes some enemies and stops having every enemie in the room be perma voided.

>Void Lace part 2 to Void Silk
What does that even mean.

>Silk Soar some actual utility in combat and traversal.
It already works in traversal, you can skip most of Mount Fay with it for example. But combat utility is just stupid. Crystal dashs only combat utility was sticking to walls.

>>723680562
bro is buying shards lmao. tool + shard stuff def was not balanced well tho

>>723680562
You don't need them immediately right away, no. You're supposed to see the prices and know how much you need to work towards. If you can't handle that then you literally, I mean actually legitimately not even exaggerating, have the emotional capacity of a toddler.

>>723680413
what essential item does forgedaughter have? the magma bell is 110

>>723680413
>essential upgrade item
You don't know what essential means.

>>723680648
crafting kit

No

Buying Pebb's key and immediately getting Flintslate has made my Steel Soul runs more fun.

>>723680740
At that point you have a single red tool and you're choosing to invest your small amount of money on increasing that over any other thing you could be buying?

>>723656184
>>723656328
>>723656407
>>723656763
>>723656828
good write-up, ty

>>723680413
>get 3 mask shards
>remember that there's one in the shop I didn't buy because it would do nothing yet
>buy it and get an extra mask
This is basic stuff. If you don't do this you're probably just stupid.

>>723679932
>and its locked behind a tedious flee search
Act III itself is locked behind getting nearly all of the fleas
>unlike in HK you never get a map to see where all the missed grubs are....
You do get one. Voz marks them on your map.
Posts like these make it so hard to take the people blaming the game seriously.

>>723680637
>You're supposed to see the prices and come back later after you've met even more expensive merchants down the road who are jangling even more enticing keys in your face
Its ok to admit when you've fucked up bro. I bought out all the act 1 merchants in act 2 and then the Songclave merchant, and expanded Belltown act 2 inventory, were both so expensive I wouldn't have had spare funds to clean out Act 1 anyway.

>>723680857
Yeah, it's a pretty basic IQ check.

>>723680637
>run back to bone bottom
>see simple key is 500 rosaries
>oh okay i'll save up for that
>enter next area, map tax, bench tax, fast travel tax
>enemies don't even drop rosaries
>save up a few rosaries on the way from hitting objects and catching the ones that didn't fall into spikes
>reach new area
>taxes drain my wallet putting me back at square one

>>723680843
No, I bought the Sting Shard item for 110 instead of the Crafting Kit. The Crafting Kit is just an example of an always-useful item that's not just an idle luxury you should wait to come back later on. You can always use more shards.

>>723680856
>good
A lot of the stuff about tools is just plain wrong though.

>>723649730 (OP)
No, just annoying having to learn a new pogo from your base kit. Just got it so I'm barely into Act 1.

>>723680921
Clearly you personally felt that the maps, benches, and bellways were more important than one single simple key (that you can find for free in act 1 anyway), which was the personal value decision you made. So maybe take ownership of your own decisions instead of blaming the game.

>>723680857
There's actually very little reason to NOT grind for Pebb's shard because it's only 300 masks and you need to buy a shitload of stuff from Shakra at the same time. Its only 10 extra runs of the Mosshome loop to get it. 5 minutes of time to not forget about it later.

>>723680413
Problem is that all of these are left to be bought so exploring and beating bosses gets you nothing.

>>723680921
This was only really true on release. The patch made a lot of the small costs cheaper and the random rosary caches give you more.

>>723680973
>Crafting Kit
>more shards
You didn't even play the game.

>>723681092
Oh sorry I don't remember what specifically the tool pouch and crafting kit individually do you stupid faggot. Come up with a real response next time.

Post em

>>723681072
>to not forget about it
Maybe just don't be a goldfish? Why grind for and spend money on an item that does nothing for you at that point and can be reached any time via fast travel?

>>723680973
the shitty shard / tool system in the game makes it so that tools are literally just a luxury lmao. you cant waste them on mobs exploring or youll go negative. it's for the luxury of dumping on bosses for free kills. they're balanced like ass.

>>723680637
I haven't played this particular metroidvania yet, but that is a common problem with these games and it sucks ass. You get stuck on a boss/challenge and can't know (without looking up a guide) if it's because you need to git gud and should keep trying of if there's some upgrade that you were supposed to get.

>>723681163
Maybe read the wiki more carefully before you try to post about games you didn't play.

>>723681218
Because I already am mass murdering Mosshome to buy the map shit from the map bitch that they still make you grind for like huge fucking faggots, and because I'm already grinding anyway I may as well grind for slightly longer. Don't think I didn't notice that they conveniently put Shakra next to grinding spots in almost every one of her early game spawn points specifically for this purpose.

>>723681267
On the contrary, bosses have so much HP that by the time you can blow whole tool wheels on them without dying anyway, since a full 2 wheels of tools typically only deletes 1/3 phases, you could just beat them anyway. Tools are best used as mob clearers in arenas.

>>723681310
-> >>723677496
You don't need every pin right away.

>>723681413
You're looking at 200-300 rosaries for just her essential items (mosslands + marrow maps, quill, compass, bench/bellway pins). Again, her dialogue literally straight up says "go grind for this shit loser, see ya lmao."

god the silkshot is so fucking cool. wonder if they could do an old west pastiche in the hollow knight universe

Contrary to popular sentiment, I think the first game was harder. You get so much more mobility in Silksong. The future DLCs may fuck you up though, you never know with these devs.

Just dont buy unnecessary shit like the maps or the optional benches and you're fine on money for the most part

>>723681563
>compass, bench/bellway pins
These are not essential.

>>723681376
Yeah you just dump them on a boss and skip a phase. mobs don't even drop enough shards for casual use so it's really the only way they're used

I only use Flintslate because it makes me feel I used a Devil Trigger or something.

>>723649730 (OP)
Le hecking bug game!

>>723681634
cringe and contrarianpilled, especially with how yellow/blue/red slots work, you don't have fuck all else to put there besides the compass

>>723681563
I remember having enough for the two maps and the quill. The compass I bought later in Bone Bottom.

Hollow Knight has way more pins and nobody sane grinded for them.

>>723681746
nta but I put the extra shards one in there for a good third of the game
it really adds up

>>723681854
that's because hollow knight was way more generous with how much cash it gave you and how much stuff you had to spend it on. in the pale king's glorious last and only civilization, the benches were free.

>>723681746
You literally get the magnet and extra shard tools in the first half hour of the game. Compass has always been a crutch for retards, same in HK.

>>723682068
the magnet is almost twice as expensive as the compass you stupid retard, and you buy it from the same merchant who's selling the mask shard. all this synergizes into one big combined grind sesh for clearing out both shakra and pebb to your desired satisfaction just to get the game rolling.

>>723656184
>SS pushes you way harder, but not necesarily in a good way. Almost all of my damage taken was from situations were there was too much going on visualy or by rng attacks.
>>>>>>>>>"""""rng attacks"""""
stopped reading right there, opinion discarted

>>723682183
Or you could literally look right next to Pebb and notice the wishboard offering rosaries for doing wishes and do that instead of whining you don't have everything immediately right away.

>>723680921
>IRL
>need to save money
>see X, Y and Z that I don't need but can buy
>now I don't have savings
Maybe TC is trying to save you from ending up homeless.

>>723682183
i dunno how tf you're finding yourself having to grind for shit unless ur clearing out shops or spamming shards. you just walk around, do quests and you get your rosaries for shakra and magnet. like just explore

>>723682068
>Compass has always been a crutch for retards
Wrong. The map is horrendous and provides no references. Don't know how they fucked that up when Super Metroid nailed it 40 years ago, but they did.

>>723677776
Because they're all virgins with no prospects. A cartoon bug is the only honor they have to defend. Hope this helps.

>>723678709
Then you weren't in any of the launch ER threads, or the launch SotE threads.

>>723678021
You should try getting your dick wet.

>>723682346
>Do the sidequests who reward you with a combined total of 120 rosaries for dealing with this 400+ rosary blowout right in the first area
>Just come back later bro
Or you can stop being a faggot and just admit that since the game literally tells you to stop and grind that the intended progression is grinding. A core feature of your progression in Silksong is a LOT more grinding, hence the existence of the MMO fetchquest wishes (which start right at Bone Bottom), because TC was apparently mad that you weren't grinding hard enough in HK.

>>723680579
>What does that even mean.
Remove Lace's 2nd phase and add a void corrupted GMS fight instead.

>It already works in traversal, you can skip most of Mount Fay with it for example. But combat utility is just stupid. Crystal dashs only combat utility was sticking to walls.
Mount Fay is like the one place where it's actually useful. For the other areas, it may as well be a key to a door with how little it affects the game. At least crystal dash helped you traverse the map faster, silk soar barely has any utility in combat or exploration.

>>723682764
>DUDE SEX
Yeah I can do both.

>>723679281
>Everyone talks about how dogshit Act 3 is
Do they? I've been mostly trashing SS in this thread but I genuinely have no major issues with Act 3. They have the decency to actually give you a fucking warp so it's not like you're wasting as much time as you were in Act 1 or 2, and the bosses never get as bad as the swamp faggot. The HP jump is annoying as is needing to find the rest of the fleas to actually alleviate that, but once you take care of that it's mostly smooth sailing. Like it's obviously just tacked on padding, but the bosses are mostly fine and the ant girl is even one of the better boss fights in the game.

>>723682790
>the game literally tells you to stop and grind that the intended progression is grinding
It does not, and I never had to, unless you're the "playing all of the game instead of speedrunning is grinding!" type of retard.

>>723682764
>implying sex matters more than the aspiration to set and achieve goals
Man, imagine being bitched so hard you straight up turn into a woman.

>>723682865
prove it

>>723683094
Sure thing, kid.

>>723683094
What aspiration? To be a fat, unemployed sweatlord neetcuck?

>>723682937
You're literally lying if you said you never had to grind because it is physically impossible to get enough rosaries without grinding. >>>>>>>>>Playing the game in this instance means dying an absurd amount of times. Why the fuck do you keep dodging this point? The only possible way you could recover like 6000 rosaries of deficit purely through "natural" backtracking is if you died in the overworld more than DSP. Why the fuck are you lying, you fucking rat faggot?

>>723683550
>it is physically impossible to get enough rosaries without grinding
We've been over this point on loop for hours now and you're wrong every time.
Playing the game normally without speedrunning is not grinding. Fuck off. Pop a silkeater instead of blaming the game for you losing your 6,000 rosary cocoon.

>>723682449
>I dunno why you're finding yourself having to grind unless ur >>>>>clearing out shops
>"just don't buy the items bro"
lmao

the entire month of 5+ active bump limit threads daily of /v/ crying that savage beastly (an easy tutorial tier boss) was too hard, or a 20 second runback for last judge warrants an industry wide discussion on toxic gameplay mechanics was absurd.
and of course a month later the overwhelming attitude has changed to
>UH ACTUALLY IT WAS EASY AND STUPID AND I'M EPIC AND IT SUCKS
silksong has completely exposed this board is filled with shitters and mental children.

>>723683659
You're not "playing the game normally" if you're getting that many extra rosaries purely through runbacks. You're admitting to extreme incompetency. It doesn't matter how you ration your purchases through the game, how many rosaries you package into necklaces, how efficient you are at finding overworld deposits. You. Do. Not. Have. Enough. At any point. This is never realistic ever. Literally all you're doing is revealing you did something super fucking retarded and can't admit it.

>>723683786
>purely through runbacks
YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE INVENTING THIS.
This point exists solely and entirely in your own head.

>>723683853
Because the alternative is even a bigger blatant lie kek. You're such a fucking chronic fucking liar dude. Runbacks are the only possible way what you're describing could even remotely be true, because otherwise it's a mathematical fact that on an area-to-area basis from the start of act 1 to the end of act 3 you are deep in the red when it comes to funds vs potential purchases.

>>723683676
nigga is buying every item in the game... you're going to cry about 15k charms in hollow knight? just don't buy everything

>>723683853
Surely you're not running back and forth through the coral chambers multiple times when most of the stuff in each major area can be done on the first visit that you somehow obtain several thousands of rosaries? That wouldn't be playing the game normally, that's getting lost like a retard.

>>723684013
Silksong is actually stricter than HK because you actually do need to buy out every merchant for the 100% trophy where as in HK you could get away with the fragile charms for the 112% cheevo and godhome and not actually buy the unbreakable versions.

>>723684013
The 15k charms are just a bonus, they replace your fragile charms.

>>723683994
>>723684104
I am not obligated to justify your strawman. If you can't form an argument without inventing bullshit from thin air then you don't have an argument period.

>>723684307
At this point I am just genuinely confused about what the fuck your path through the game must have looked like to get this much extra cash because I unironically do not think you fully appreciate how short you end up being if you don't waste like 2-3 accumulated hours looping the same enemies in a circle. You straight up need to find an amount of money comparable to an Unbreakable charm grind in order to earn that 100% trophy.

>>723663336
I listened to this thread and as a result I had a full stack of extra shards and of the two basic types of rosary strings which were absolutely useless come act 3.

>>723661050
If you had an easy, fast way to tell that you only had 2 masks left then it would be fine.
There is, but it's so faint that I beat Lost Lace before picking it up under pressure. It just needs to be more obvious.

>>723669739
>First Sinner
>never safe to chase after
isn't that entire fight an exercise in dash and harpoon attacks? lace almost always advances, so the passive your turn / my turn dynamic is obvious, but a lot of sinner's attacks are her winding up for projectiles, so you have to actually gauge whether to push on or wait out until the next cycle

>>723685243
No, First Sinner is largely safe to chase after. Lost Lace isn't. Lost Lace is like a version of First Sinner where it isn't safe to chase her.

>>723683701
>conflating shitters and braggers
Goomba Twitter Image.

>>723666202
I don't think it's excessively hard either even though it took me an hour to beat Karmelita and 2 hours to beat Lost Lace. Savage nigger fly also took about an hour, all the rest of the bosses were a cake walk. I two shot 1st sinner, for instance. That was with wanderer though. I used shaman for act 3.

>>723668413
Brood mother may as well have been a trash mob it was so easy.

>>723685243
>>723685292
Lost Lace and First Sinner are like the opposite of one another though. First Sinner punishes you for being too passive by healing herself, Lost Lace punishes you for being too aggressive via her obnoxious counter and attack pattern extensions.

>>723682395
Yeah this thread is making me understand the whole
>70% of people live paycheck to paycheck thing
I always thought the notion was absurd but people just can't seem to put off buying things that don't matter now until later

The real issue was GMS distracting you with her devious trick middle of the fight. What the fuck were the devs thinking? She bends her fine ass over like she's ready to take Hornet's stinger right then and there. How the fuck is anybody supposed to concentrate like that?

>>723685292
ah gotcha, misunderstood the "but it's never safe to chase after" clause

>>723649730 (OP)
Only during certain points in Act 1 ON launch day version.
You really didnt beat the game if you are playing on any version beyond launch.

>>723685791
>You really didnt beat the game if you are playing on any version beyond launch.
Troon hard. Faking difficulty isn't the same as real difficulty just like faking being a woman isn't the same as a real woman.

>>723684140
ok grinding is def required for completionist runs then. i kind of like that you can't buy out the world on normal runs tho

>>723670684
True. Especially no where near as hard as the DLC. Not even in the same ballpark.

>>723649730 (OP)
Just poor conveyancing, brought on by their isolated dev cycle and limited play testing. Team Cherry are faggots but part of me respects and envies SS's autistic fort knox development

it was for me
i quit after about 4 hours because it was just so much more difficult than HK

>>723685791
I pirated the game so I'm stuck on launch version, get fucked retards.

>>723670725
Boomerangs absolutely rape Groal.

>>723670684
If you're just talking about base Hollow Knight then you're retarded. Base Hollow Knight is piss easy outside of maybe Radiance, and even then it's just a spike because it goes from 1 damage to 2 damage.

>Didn't find the Snare Setter until the Shaman sent me back for it at the end of Act 2
>Use it as I collect the other souls, fall in love with it
>Give it to Shaman
>Gone forever

No wait. I take it back. I'm fine with being Pharlooms queen. Give me my baby back.

>>723672132
Are charged strikes even worth using at all? Especially as wanderer.

>>723686471
Wanderer has one of the best charged attacks for spamming. It's not as good as Witch's but it's a lot easier to do consistently.

>>723686356
I'd say it's really weird that Team Cherry insists on taking a completely unique option away from the player for arbitrary lore reasons, but then I remembered it's Team Cherry and they're the kings of being massive faggots to feed their own pretentious egos.

>>723686471
Sometimes, Wanderer actually has one of the best charged strikes since it has great damage, range, and is pretty easy to land. Plus it's good for the random crit passive. Probably only beat out by Shaman charged attack.

>>723686471
>Hunter does good damage, builds 2 silk, and is big
>Wanderer does good damage and each hit can tick crit
>Witch is just a lot of damage
All great. Pinstress badge isn't a meme

>>723686356
I miss the Snare Setter too. It's really weird that it's just GONE when Hornet builds her own replacement traps anyway. I guess you can argue that she was only making the ammo cartridges and that the machine itself was beyond her ability.

>>723686751
it's a meme for the simple reason that tool progression is really fucked, so getting a niche blue passive at the 11th hour especially when 1.0 charged attacks didn't build up silk is superfluous completionism
even assuming you've got good enough by the endgame to not need defense bell or quick heal, more reach and more spool and more spell damage are just better BIGGER NUMBER propositions

>>723681179
>bad
rule of cool

>>723686471
Witch is great and can be extended similar to threadstorm.

>>723649730 (OP)
It's on the harder side but very fun if you can press more than just an attack button

>>723685842
>can't cope with reality
>calling others troons
kek

I'm deliberately taking my playthrough as slow as possible because I don't want to have to wait for Acts 4 and 5 to come out

>>723688657
it's probably going to be like 6 months before any significant DLC

>>723688729
If there's insignificant DLC I can use it coming out to stall my playthrough further. I will experience the game as one package. I will not fucking go back after killing the final boss or need to kill the final boss twice. My immersion will not be broken. No wait too great.

I'm seeing everyone say that Act 1 in SS is brutally difficult but nobody wants to admit why: The pogo on the Hunter Crest is one of the clunkiest movement mechanics of any vidya in recent times, and Act 1 is when you haven't yet found a good substitute for it yet, and you are going to die a LOT before your muscle memory learns to compensate for the jank and/or you find either the Reaper or Wanderer crest. Furthermore, this learning curve happens when you're still working through your Cucklord phase and dont yet have many other movement options to help potentially soften the curve.

>>723688943
The pogo on the hunter crest is literally the least clunky pogo in the entire game
Reaper sucks because of the startup and it kills your momentum
Beast sucks because the platforming isn't made for it
Wanderer sucks because it doesn't flow into or out of your sprint
Architect's pogo is awkward and slow like Reaper
Shaman's literally makes you move backwards
Witch's pogo is tiny and has no momentum
Meanwhile Hunter's pogo has the privilege of flowing into and out of your sprint perfectly and having the entire game's suite of platforming and combat built around it. It's the only good pogo in a sea of janky shit.

>>723688943
It's hard for multiple reasons. That's one reason but not the only one. The main reason why it's hard is simply because the game is unafraid to just kill you over and over and over again until you learn how to play the game, or at least are too stubborn to quit.

>>723649730 (OP)
no single player game is hard. it's just memorization. how much time do you have to waste memorizing the game?

>>723688943
there's no problem with it once you get used to the movement
you were supposed to learn how it works during the intro when you don't have any other abilities to distract you, that's why you don't get another crest until after Hunter's March where you do a lot of pogo bounces or go through the wormways which you can skip to early but only by doing enemy pogos
I swear the people that fuck up in the same way over and over again have to have some kind of disability

>>723689161
mario is also unafraid to kill you over and over again until you learn to jump on the goombas

>>723675402
What back entrance?

>>723689127
>Wanderer sucks because it doesn't flow into or out of your sprint
It's so much forgiving to execute than any other crest, and doesn't interfere with your air momentum nearly as hard as anything else, that in practice this doesn't matter. In virtually every situation where you need to do anything precise in the air, Wanderer is hands down the best. In fact there's a bunch of encounters that I'd say exist solely to be humiliation rituals for the Hunter/Beast diagonal pogos. Father of the Flame, The flying whale segment on the way to the surface, any enemy that's programmed to dash backwards immediately after attacking, etc. There's that one flea in Choral Chambers where you can skip the fan puzzle and just chain pogo straight upwards like it's White Palace using Wanderer. Plus, the fact that it comes out in an arc saves your ass a bunch of times. I can't tell you how often I missed a Hunter pogo and took contact damage because the angle was JUST right to make Hornet's hitbox contact the mob before the specific needlepoint of her sword did, because the Hunter pogo's hitbox is a narrow pinpoint instead of an arc (it should be an arc, fuck off Team Cherry). Wanderer just works.

>>723675420
Way easier.

>>723689252
I spent all the way through Greymoor just unlearning the muscle memory I had built up in Hollow Knight to stop instinctively using the wrong timings and angles. Very strange decision to punish you for playing the first game by designing the sequel's moveset to be the complete opposite in almost every respect.

>>723689389
You can enter the mist through Sinner's Road, (and Bilewater I think.)
If you go through the mist and beat Phantom, you can enter the Citadel and start act 2 without fighting last judge.

>>723689273
That was 40 years ago. Modern game devs make sure modern gamers have multiple hours of safe tutorials first, which is why Silksong stands out.

>>723689389
>>723689484
The real back entrance is getting double jump before clawline and using it to enter through Wisp Thicket.

>>723649730 (OP)
i finished pre-patched wuchang right before silksong released, silksong didnt make me sweat

>>723689498
Retro games literally came with an entire book of tutorial instructions. The reason why retro games often seem so schizo to modern audiences is because you can't check the manual the game assumed you'd have open to the side while you played, where the hit or tutorial would be found.

>>723689484
Last Judge path is way more kino though

>>723677070
There are plenty of resources.
The early game is a breeze. I don't know what crack you're smoking. The only remotely difficult boss is Savage Beast Fly but only if you do him early.

>>723678383
I'm a soulsfag and this shit is literally easier than every souls game.

>>723663289
>reaper bad
I found reaper easier to use due to longer reach on ground slash and best pogo.
Sure wanderer has more dps but i kep getting contact damage due to the tiny reach

>>723678635
I don't know what the fuck you're even talking about it. The void variant makes enemies take like 2 extra whacks vs non-void. I tested it.

>>723679281
Act 3 isn't a lot of content. It's like 5 extra hours for the average player. Not even remotely close tot he volume of act 1 and act 2.

>>723649730 (OP)
i have the original files saved since they nerfed that shit
i will beat the game

>>723681650
Mobs dont even drop shards or rosaries in gauntlets so you really run into a deficit

>>723689484
Interesting. Never found that passage from Exhaust Organ to the Citadel.

>>723689596
That's why I go through the Mist, beat Phantom, head to the Grand Bellway and unlock all the fast travel stuff but don't step outside so Act 2 doesn't start. Then I can go back and enter via the front gate