Thread 723719843

>JRPG protagonist starts the game as a normal person thrust into an extraordinary situation and rising to the occasion
>halfway through the game
>"actually, you were le chosen one all along, you were always destined to do this"

Can Japs please stop with this shit, it adds nothing. If it's established from the beginning that the protagonist is special, it's fine, but doing it at the halfway point is just pointless, because by the point the protagonist was already doing everything that the "chosen one" label comes with anyway, so it makes no difference. They don't need to be a chosen one if they're just doing generic protagonist stuff.

>waiter take thos steak back, it's way too juicy and delicious for my tastes
I hate frogniggers

>>723719843 (OP)
>can Japs please stop with the shit done for the purpose of self-inserting
Why would they

>Game starts you out as a nobody
>Through the game you continue to be a nobody accomplishing great feats and learning along they way
>at the very end youre still a nobody but you've accomplished so much more than someone with their path set out from them
Kino is served.

>game starts you off as The Chosen One that everyone loses their shit over
>it becomes clear you're just a figurehead and your hyper competent teammates are carrying you

I hate how Kingdom Hearts started out like >>723720631, but turned into >>723719843 (OP) several games later.

>>723720379
It's not for self-inserting, because anime and manga do this shit too. Even characters with their own personalities and pre-existing motivations get retconned into chosen ones

>>723720985
Yes it is. Japs hate being a random nobody, even a random nobody that accomplishes something through effort, because it's too similar to their real lives. They want to feel like kings.
>anime and manga
You're proving my point further.

>>723721325
You cannot self-insert as a character who has a personality and motivations that differ from your own

>>723720971
The worst part is that Nomura doesn't even fully commit to it.

>pre-BBS
>Sora won the Keyblade from Riku through strength of heart
>BBS
>actually, Sora had magical savior powers from childhood
>he's also the destined hero meant to save the casts of the side games
>DDD
>No, actually he's still just a normie. I promise.
>Dark Road
>No, actually there is a destined savior meant to come from Destiny Islands.

>>723719843 (OP)
I've never seen a game do this. I've seen several games where characters with faulty or incomplete information screech about how the protagonist shouldn't be able to do what they're doing, but none where we know objectively what fate is and still see the protagonist defy it.
>noooo if I didn't know the protagonist was special from the start it doesn't count
You just like the thing that makes the protagonist feel the most "special" because you like protagonist exceptionalism.

>>723720985
>it's a "retcon" to reveal a character's chosen one status after their other character traits/motives
What the fuck? How does being the chosen one contradict a character's motivations?

>>723721363
Ah, you're just autistic. I see. Carry on.

>>723721596
If they already have a pre-existing motivation to save the world or do whatever they're supposed to do, then being "the chosen one" adds nothing. It just becomes an unnecessary detail that undermines the story.

>>723721679
>if you want to do something, then having an external force pushing you to do it too adds nothing
So... you don't understand the purpose of any story complications that don't IMMEDIATELY generate a conflict? This sort of thing usually sets up for some part of their fate being objectionable but hidden from them at the start.
You also didn't explain how it's a contradiction or a retcon.

Name 10 games

>>723719843 (OP)
Name 3.

This problem is pervasive across Japanese media, but especially media aimed at boys

>>723721946
John
Josh
Jill
>>723721916
Jerry
Job
Jutland
Jebediah
Jherman
Jolly
Jarvin

>>723722018
Yes, the "problem" of the protagonist not being strong for literally no reason at all.
>b-but they can just train!
If there's nothing inherent separating the protagonist from the antagonist, the question becomes why the antagonist was slacking.

>>723719843 (OP)
but why you fine with being chosen to post this fuckin hypocrite

>>723722381
My dad doesn't actually work for nintendo retard.

>>723722018
it's because asiatics believe in predeterminism which is why they are soulless automatons toiling without complaint after all the great spirit of Chinkashinkahentai and Shogun Mitsubishi decided this is the best for them

>>723719843 (OP)
also this is not how you judge
if its trying to story about the chosen then you have to judge how it tells the chosen one story
its like telling a joke you cant complain why its not scary

>>723722342
"He trained harder" is the only explanation you need

>>723722018
>ancestor and implied reincarnation of ancient super warrior
That's just factually wrong.

>>723722709
Congratulations on making underdog stories logically impossible. Such "good" writing you demand! What high standards!
>no no no you can just say the antagonist was being lazy
And this doesn't undermine their threat? Yeah right, fuck off fag.

>>723722018
Bleach and Dragonball feel like reaching.

>>723723043
The type of people who get mad that a protagonist has an actual reason to be more powerful than their peers (other than "they wanted it most out of everyone in the whole world") are not known for their intelligence.

>>723723125
Giving them a cheat code that inherently makes them better than everyone else makes it impossible to sympathize with or become invested in their characters. It turns the plot armor that comes with being the protagonist into a literal in-universe thing rather than just a writing thing

Don't consume Japanese media, duh

>>723719843 (OP)
And at the you kill god.

>>723719843 (OP)
It's called confirmation bias. It's obvious the character is the chosen one if he manages to get through a lot of hurdles, most people would give up from the start. For example you, you're not the chosen one.

>>723723545
This never happens in JRPGs, you never fight an actual god in any JRPG

>>723723263
>having any traits at all to explain WHY they're just better is a "cheat code"
>just being better because they trained "better" is good writing

>>723719843 (OP)

Not that bad. What I would hate is giving this guy a freaking superpowers in later games because now he's so special

>>723724825
It worked for Goku. The Saiyan retcon didn't happen until much later, and even that only explains his transformations, all of his actual techniques are things anyone can learn

>>723725456
notice however that the moment transformations happened is the moment the series was all about leveling up the hair colour and there were no new techniques anymore

>>723725456
>the Saiyan retcon didn't happen until they needed an explanation for why some random guy was able to ascend to such insane heights
Hmm...

>>723725541
It only became about hair colors in Super

>>723725848
"Some random guy" was literally a mythological hero from the fucking start, why do you think his name is "Son Goku" in the first place? >>723722018 is fucking stupid for bringing up the Super Saiyan crap like it actually matters, when the real thing that mattered is that he was a take on a legendary mythological character from the beginning, he was not ever at any point "some random guy."

>>723723410
Frodo was the chosen one. Morrowind's mc became the chosen one.

>>723722018
We had that shit for millennia.

>>723726118
>"Some random guy" was literally a mythological hero from the fucking start, why do you think his name is "Son Goku" in the first place

He was based on Son Wukong out-of-universe, but Goku in the context of Dragon Ball itself was just a human kid who happened to have a monkey tail and turn into a giant ape when he looked at a full moon, that's it

>>723726118
A lot of people somehow don't know about Journey to the West even though a shit load of asian and some western media uses shit from it.
Also even beyond that Goku wasn't a normal boy starting from the first episode and the show only makes it more clear as it goes. Same with the manga.

>>723726467
>just a human
>does things no other human in setting can do
>was always just a human
Hmm...

>>723726410
just like cancer

>>723723612
>implying

>>723726118
> he was not ever at any point "some random guy."
In-universe, he was. It's just that at some point "he trained harder" stops being a reasonable explanation for the heights he's reached.

>>723726603
You've been alive that long? Damn.

>>723726565
DB was full of literal animal people (or regular talking animals), a shape shifting pig and cat, and there was a werewolf in the first tournament.

>>723721382
Xehanort is the destined savior.

>>723726467
>>723726668
Given how many goofy animal and part-animal people the original Dragonball had, you could make the argument that Goku was in-universe a normal one of those, but at no point even from the start was he ever a normal human kid. They even gave you a normal human guy as his best friend and first training rival to contrast and make that obvious.

>>723726741
Those aren't humans. Plua he is nothing like them.

>>723726760
Alright then, what's the problem? He clearly had something up with him from the start, how is them revealing what that something is bad writing?
>he should've just been inexplicably different from everyone else in the setting forever!
Surely you can see that your idea of "good writing" is becoming completely arbitrary.

>>723727028
I'm not the guy talking about bad writing, I'm pointing out that he isn't an example of >>723722018 because he was clearly and obviously special from the beginning.
Hell, Naruto doesn't count either because it was established from the very beginning that the title character has a demon sealed inside him from birth.

>protagonist is not the chosen one and is just somekid who was at the right/wrong place at the right/wrong time
>only vague "chosen one" energy was that only his ethnicity could unseal the god-sword, but he isn't the only one of his ethnicity in the world, just the only one that was there at the right time
>but his ethnicity was only needed to activate and unlock it, not use and wield it
>story constantly beats you over the head with the fact that anybody could wield the god-sword and in fact the plot would probably be solved more easily and faster if they did
>but he rises to the occasion regardless after spending 50% of the game getting his shit kicked in and saves the world

>story DLC ruins this by revealing all of this was pre-ordained 500 years ago

The "being able to see the future through ether (in-universe atoms)" really fucking kills the story in the Xenoblade universe because everything is predetermined so he might as well be the Chosen One

>>723727384
Your post was predetermined but I really wish it wasn't. Try harder to defy fate next time.

>>723727028
Not everything needs to be explained. All giving everything an unnecessary explanation does is shrink the world

>>723727384
>"right place right time" protagonist was actually set up to be in the right place at the right time by someone acting before the plot
>this somehow invalidates the actions the protagonist took during the plot, while unaware of this
I do not understand.

>>723727384
This would only be a bad trope if Torna released before the main game.

>>723727551
Holy shit. You actually DO think they should've left giant obvious questions hanging indefinitely. There's a difference between answering questions the audience might ask and answering questions anyone in universe with an IQ above room temperature was already asking.

>>723726751
Xehanort believed he was the destined savior and that's why he did all of the shit he did. KH3 pretty decisively disproves Xehanort's belief.

>>723719843 (OP)
OP is a fag. If you dont kill a God I dont want to play your game.
Also mandatory watch on the subject, DND cartoon the reward.

https://youtu.be/kkAYze6ae18?si=sZqIyoZTI_NpvB0d

>>723722018
Ed being the son of the world's greatest alchemist had extremely little bearing on his own talents beyond the fact that it probably is the root of his interest.

>>723722018
2000s Shonen era was fucking awful. 3.5 of these are good, the others are just awful, especially by late 90s standards. Pokemon was a mistake.

>>723728294
Pokemon is not a shonen

>>723727384
>The "being able to see the future through ether (in-universe atoms)"
This is based on a real world theory btw
Compared to Shulk (possessed and groomed by God since he was a baby to unshackle God with the Monado) and Noah (child clone soldier caught in an endless cycle of death and rebirth who ends up the manifestation of the original person's hope and regrets turned into a Jungian shadow), Rex basically just some guy with no crazy backstory or lore.

>>723728335
You had all these amazing deep well done anime in the late 90's. Berserk, Evangelion, Lain and especually relevant Cowboys bebop. Cowboys made money, it was populuar. Still made nothing when compared to the first billion dollar franchise pokemon and its low quality anime. Everyone saw that and asked why put in the effort for less money. The shit 2001-2015 Shonen era was born.

>>723728394
Its old hat, quantum physics through it out the window. Though a German dike with decent youtube videos wrote a paper that revived it called Super Detetminism, most physisists don't buy it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laplace%27s_demon

>>723727384
all torna did was reveal mythra knew a bit more than she was letting on, which explains why pyra was willing to share their core with him. and all she had was his face. she didn't know how things would play out just to take a chance on the kid.