Thread 723888713

Are there any dungeon crawlers that are harder than SMT: Nocturne or is it the hardest dungeon crawler of all time?

>>723888713 (OP)
SMT: Nocturne is hard? Were you 8 years old when you played it?

>>723888713 (OP)
Wizardry 4

>>723888987
All wizardry really are harder than SMT in a general sense although I don't think they've got more complex encounters just the dungeon crawl is more brutal.

>>723888910
Oh fuck off I've played a ton of dungeon crawlers and Nocturne is hard. Same goes for Strange Journey.

>>723888987
This one always catches my eye. I really want to play the PSX version but how playable is it?

I remember I tried a ROM once and I seem to recall it having English options but something was still Japanese. What's the best way of playing it?

>>723888713 (OP)
baitnigger, there are several harder games in the smt series alone

>>723889273
Like...?
How about mention them, retardnigger

>>723888713 (OP)
Should dungeon crawler threads be moved to /vg/? It's a handful of people that spam a bunch of incredibly stupid and low quality threads. Gacha would be preferable to this.

>>723888713 (OP)
6th stratum in any etrian odyssey game is harder than anything SMT has to offer as a series.

>>723889358
>Gacha would be preferable to this
What? At least this is video games. Gacha are not real games.

>>723888713 (OP)
lmao jrpgs are VNs with extra steps.
play Wizardly, troon.

>>723889546
SJ has harder dungeons than any Etrian Odyssey.

>>723888713 (OP)
Like every Wizardry game

>>723889718
>SJ has harder dungeons than any Etrian Odyssey.
Shit journey does not come even close to EO.

>>723889358
>gacha would be preferable to this

>>723889140
How do you figure that Nocturne is harder than Strange Journey?

>>723889718
>>723889714

Oh my god will you shut the fuck up with Wizardry? I knew you'd bring those up when I made the thread.

Those games are too archaic to be played anymore, they're not even proper games. The mechanics are dogshit and they're broken.

>>723889834
NTA but I think all the press turn games are about the same difficulty. Except SMT IV, that game is cartoonishly easy

>>723888987
Wizardry games are hard just because how archaic they are. No save points, bullshit RGN, and the need to use guides at all times. It's what we used to call a Nintendo Power game.

>>723889834
Nocturne has less abusable strats, in SJ once you gain access to tetrakarn and makarakarn the game difficulty drops to 1/10. In nocturne the shields aren't nearly as strong because pretty much all magic bosses are immune to their own damage type and tetrakarn is useful against only like one or two bosses before everything starts to spam almighty.
In SJ you can one shot the final boss with one makarakarn, impossible in nocturne.

>>723889718
>SJ has harder dungeons than any Etrian Odyssey.
Not really. They might be padded with more trial and error induced backtracking but the encounters are trivial after delphinus. Meanwhile Untold claret hollows will violate your asshole no matter how good your team composition is.

>>723889546
Too bad Etrian Odyssey series is shit.

>>723889996
Sounds like someone got deer'd.

>>723889930
>>723889868
A great Wizardry 1 remake came out last year, go beat that then try your troll thread again

>>723888713 (OP)
Persona 3 and 4 are much harder

>>723888713 (OP)
Strange Journey is much more unforgiving with its level design.

>>723889868
play the remake then, you anime addicted troony loner. it came out last year.

>>723891259
>a great Wizardry 1 remake came out

>>723891259
>>723891782
Does it fix the archaic lack of QoL featured in newer and superior dungeon crawlers? Is it still a guide game? Still broken as shit?

>>723889714
Would 6, 7, and 8 be a good place to start with wizardry?

>>723889926
SMT IV is balanced on the edge of a blade, which is appropriate seeming as you larp as Samurai. It's either kill or be killed. No in-between. Don't downplay the difficulty as easy because the game happily kicks your teeth in when it wants to. It's just that the game gives you enough tools and makes it easy enough to build your demons any damn way you please (no affinity system like IV:A and V) so you can easily nuke everything and be swimming in extra turns. It's actually pretty based because it doesn't waste your time. If you can fuck their shit up the game doesn't waste your time and you can nuke them in a few turns. Same goes for them.

>>723891903
yes, no, yes.
Go watch naruto or whatever, troon.
In fact, a lot of modern wizardry games are tranime infested because they love it over there and I think the IP is now japanese.

>>723892345
Nigger fuck your gay ass archaic bullshit game. Maybe you like smashing your dick with a hammer, but I have standards. Wizardry does not meet these standards.

At least in Strange Journey I could run away from random encounters. Why would I want to start up another Nocturne playthrough when the start of the game is just inescapable encounters and having to pay 3x the money for the good Magatama
>>723892087
>Don't underestimate this game that's really easy to trivialize
Okay? I think everyone agrees the beginning is the hardest part because it's all up to whether enemies decide to use the move that just instantly kills you or not. That's not good design.

>>723892592
I think you are just bad at video games.

>>723891918
Start with 8 or the modern remake of 1. If you enjoy them try 6 and 7... and if you like that then you have Might & Magic 4-8 to enjoy (though maybe start with 7).

>>723892469
>JRPG
>Standards
kek

>>723892087
Lol, you are mistaken my friend. SMT IV isn't balanced on the edge of a blade, it isn't balanced at all. They didn't bother to calculate HP pools based on skill damage, this is why you can one shot most bosses past Medusa.

If you don't believe me, open up the game and go to the cathedral of shadows and just look at stat distributions for demons of the same level. The game isn't stated, everything uses placeholder values.

Listen guy, I enjoyed IV, and I made the defense case on here when the game came out, but the combat is not well designed. Rather the combat is not designed.

>>723891389
lol

>>723893069
Persona 4 in the highest difficulty is quite a challenge.

>>723893171
I heard Persona 3 on Easy is the most bullshit RPG of all time and that it has the worst final boss in video games. Now where was it that I heard that...

>>723893283
What is this schizo rambling?

>Arguing with SMT autists
Kek

>>723893332
Newfag

Not even worth replying to the schizo anymore.

SMT If... is dogshit hard the first time, especially negotiating with those motherfuckers to get into your party. Many secrets or even points of progression are piss hard to figure out and I doubt any modern gaymer did it without guides and savestates.
Phantasy Star 1 is also very hard, and some dungeons will filter you for a long time.

>>723893171
Unironically true, if you mean the PS2 one.
Way harder than Nocturne.

>>723893623
So an SMT game is still the contender for hardest, not a shitty archaic Wizardry game for cock & ball torture enjoyers with 0 standards.

Based.

>>723893795
Megami Tensei on the NES is harder than any Wizardry game ever made.

>>723893171
Persona 4 on normal difficulty is harder than nocturne

As a megaten fan I disown this anon.

As a Wizardry fan, I admit we all suck dicks.

>>723892841
The stay homogeneity, openness of inheritance, and lack of skill potentials made IV's demon fusion pretty damn stale looking back at it. I'm glad it was my first entry into the series because I wouldn't have enjoyed it otherwise.

>>723894598
It's still far better than Nocturne's random skill inheritance.

I never found this game hard but I used save states

>>723889960
SJ becomes much easier if you abuse the XP distribution. Just bench your demons right before a fight is over, make your MC land the finishing blow and he gets 4x the usual XP. Doing this with bosses is extra ballsy but it pays off big time. You will be constantly overleveled.

Honestly I don't remember if you could do this in Nocturne, I'm pretty sure you can't because XP is distributed in a different way but I may be misremembering. Nocturne also incentivizes leveling your demons to some extent while SJ doesn't in the slightest, they're just there to eat up your XP.

>>723895547
>The game becomes easy if you cheese
We got Albert Einstein here!

>>723895602
>cheese
Anon, you could literally do this by complete accident. Your demons could just end up dying right before you win a battle, it's not that unusual. It's not a glitch, it's how the game was designed, and if you can exploit it, you should.

>>723888713 (OP)
Nocturne is not hard at all and it's barely a dungeon crawler

>>723892087
SMTIV is great but I'm not gonna call it balanced when the strength stat literally only affects normal attack.

>>723896397
It does not, this myth has been repeated so many times people treat it as fact. STR is just half as effective at scaling phys moves than DEX. See formula for scaling berserker god:
Damage = 91.02 + 1.51 x Dexterity + 0.74 x Strength
The stat is still broken but it does more than only affect normal attack.

>>723896541
Imagine not playing as a dexChand and not gunning down all these fucking demons like humanity is suppose to.

>>723896541
Huh, all right.

>>723893171
Yeah until Shadow Kanji, then it turns into a literal walk in the park

>>723893795
SMT is just a Wizardry clone but easier.

>>723888713 (OP)
SMT: IF

you get to the mystic chest and of course its a new moon so you have to run in a circle until the full moon to get the good reward

>>723888713 (OP)
I would say earlier SMT games along with many other older dungeon crawlers like Wizardry are much harder. But less fun.