Thread 724212893

Why am I supposed to hate turn-based combat again?

Something something it's inferior to my button mashing perry/dodging simulator something something JRPGs are for brown people (apparently) something something faggot.

you aren't. you're supposed to love it, because you're retarded, and, as a retard, you love things that suck, faggot.

the average person isn't able to properly articulate why they dislike (or like desu) something. they recognize something is wrong and they just assume it's because of the most easily recognizable thing. I'm confident that people confuse their hatred of unavailable incessant random battles with turn based combat as a whole. source? I made it up
but it tracks. those people rarely have a problem with the pokemon formula, yet they're still turn based rpgs. what's the difference then? you can see and often avoid the grass which triggers random battles. further proof, those same people despise caves in pokemon, which act like average travel in other jrpgs with random encounters. and also everyone loves chrono trigger

>>724212893 (OP)
>"YOU CAN'T RUN AWAY-!"
>"YOU'RE IN FOR A WORLD OF HURT!"

>>724213248
>and also everyone loves chrono trigger
Too be fair, that's because [insert Youtuber here] from over 10 years ago told zoomies it was a masterpiece.

>>724212893 (OP)
It's outdated. Only boomers like it.

>>724212893 (OP)
the saga series has random move acquisition and move activation. you suggest what you might like to see your character do, and they may or may not take that into advisement. it's like a parody of a combat system.

>>724213382
>It's outdated.
Okay. How?
>Only boomers like it.
Pokémon.

I dislike ATB because you’re forced to make decisions quickly and sometimes the turn order gets messed up with healing. The only other thing is I despise random encounters even if some of my favorite games all have them.

>>724213369
way to out yourself as a zoomer, it's been beloved since before youtube existed. early 2000s discourse was full of people talking about how jrpgs are dead and we need more games like chrono trigger

>>724212893 (OP)
Because when people come to games, they generally want something that will be stress relieving and button mashy. Nobody wants to sit and watch a game play out. Its just not extremely popular. They want to play.

Play Hat World.

>>724213448
Not a single ATB game requires anything quick
You spend more time waiting for your meters to fill up even at max combat speed with haste casted on you than actually making decisions
Every single ATB game also gives up on its own system halfway through and allows bosses to cheat the mechanic anyway.

>>724212893 (OP)
Personally it's just not my thing, I don't really find it engaging. But that does not mean that non-turn based automatically makes the combat fun.

>>724213448
>ATB because you’re forced to make decisions quickly
ATB is incredibly generous time wise. What are you talking about?

I loved Look Outside and Siralim, and liked Expedition 33.
I'll probably pick up Chrono Ark and Library of Ruina during the steam halloween sale.
I've also got Crystal Project on my backlog.
Good ass year for turn based games for me.

>>724212893 (OP)
I don't like random encounters. They feel like they are padding out the game with repetitive nonsense. It's like if you're in a room and see a door on the other end with nothing in between, you should be able to walk to the door and go through.

With random encounters, you take a few steps and then you have to fight enemies that were apparently invisible. The music changes and maybe the character models and art style too. And you've probably heard the battle music a hundred times already. That's not immersive.

>>724213696
how autistic are you

turn-based combat only existed to approximate d&d combat. you're not waiting for any other player's turn so it's completely pointless if you're not explicitly simulating the feel of a d&d campaign.

>>724213536
jrpgs are button mashy lol. they're so button mashy that developers started just letting players set cursor memory and hold down the confirm button to autofight battles. it's the most braindead genre that exists. jrpgs work best when they're a vehicle for a manga-tier story with cool aesthetics and archetypes. except for expedition 33. expedition 33 broke the mold.

>>724213639
>>724213585
You can switch ATB to active so it’s always on or pause when your looking at spells I usually keep it on active so the bars are always filling up so battles don’t take forever

>>724213748
Didn't Paper Mario do that first. Also, have you played a Wizardry?

>>724213585
>>724213639
Not that guy, but I hate when ATB systems where you sit there waiting for the bar to fill, then when it's finally done the battle continues anyway while you're inputting the actual action you want to take. You have to "make decisions quickly" in the sense that you already know what to do, but have to waste additional time after waiting to make it happen. I prefer games that pause when it's actually time to take the turn, or let you queue up your action beforehand using the wait time.

>>724212893 (OP)
turn based combat is good, but HSR made most games obsolete because its system is so perfect

>>724213902
i meant expedition 33 broke the mold by being a jrpg with a story that was bigger than manga-tier and not super stupid gay bullshit. super mario rpg had qte stuff, too. i don't know what else had it earlier than that. i haven't played wizardry.

>>724213696
Not every game with turn based combat has random encounters.

>>724214000
Hsr combat is braindead outside like archer all the good characters like castorice and march don’t even use skill points anymore

>>724214175
You should. They're the classics for a reason.

>>724214515
tell me which one to play and i promise i will try it for at least 4 hours.

>>724214598
https://store.steampowered.com/app/245410/Wizardry_6_Bane_of_the_Cosmic_Forge

>>724213748
>>724214175
>expedition 33 broke the mold
>expedition 33 broke the mold
>expedition 33 broke the mold
stfu shill. E33 was dogshit and invalidated it's turn-based combat system by making every attack dodgeable with QTE. This dumb mechanic disqualifies it as a turnbased game and sucks out any strategy other.
The story and characters were suffered from millennial writing, even worse than generic shonenslop #34592. Meandering, predictable and also self-defeating.
The story is all the game has going for it and it isn't a good or well presented story.

Before you accuse me of being a jeet, it is you that is the jeet. good day

>>724214689
i'll try it tomorrow. i just beat ff12 and needed something new to play anyway.
>>724214764
tldr

>>724214764
Anon, what have you fucking done?
Now we're going to have 4 garillion Exp33 normieniggers here derailing the thread.
I hope you're happy with yourself, young man.

>>724214764
>This dumb mechanic disqualifies it as a turnbased game
it actually improves it vastly by letting you play the game instead of waiting for self-indulgent animations, but you are too much of a crippled tranny to appreciate it

>>724214000
You're baiting and wasting good digits, but are sadly correct. The vast majority of JRPGs out there boil down to 2-3 options per character so HSR cutting out the extra fat made it work just fine if not better than its peers. Unfortunately it's still a gacha and if you just want a nice single player experience hopping planets you'll find yourself shafted.

Turn based combat is awesome it's just better in some games than others

Shadow Hearts is purrrrrty cool. Yeah, I guess it qualifies as QTE combat, but I feel the series approaches it in a fun way.

>>724213382
>outdated
It's a different style of game and modern real time action isn't remotely the same style of play. Only the simple minded can't see how it's a valued game style

>>724214971
the only bait he is doing is saying HSR created that system.
HSR is a summoner's war clone.

>>724214961
You're gonna love this game. It's called Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time. It has aliens killing toads and a good boss theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3epjAxgZCc

It's funny, didn't the tendieslop JRPGs add timed-attacks so young children could stay engaged with the games? Lol. Lmao.

>>724214961
>it actually improves it vastly by letting you play the game instead of waiting for self-indulgent animations
what is "the game", if not the combat which is such a tedious chore that you must wait to get out of? Walking around a buggy, restrictive environment and speaking with quirk chungus NPCs? Sitting by the campfire listening to AI scripted padding?
>but you are too much of a crippled tranny to appreciate it
E33 is literally about a crippled tranny

I dislike bad turn based games because the animations and battle transitions take too long making regular combat outside of bosses feel like boring wastes of time. But I also dislike good turn based games because I'm not tactically-minded so systems that require actual planning and strategy overwhelm me rather quickly. It's just not a genre I enjoy most of the time.

>>724212893 (OP)
Whether you'd hate it or not just depends on the game. Some turn-based combat are braindead, some require thought. I think the key aspects of a good turn-based combat is

>Luck factor
This makes it so that knowing the best strategy isn't going to be an instant win. Having a form of variance keeps you on your toes and you have to adapt on the fly if you get unlucky. Minimizing the luck factor through skill and maximizing your chances of winning is a rewarding experience.

>Instant death moves
This makes it so you cannot win by out-leveling your enemies. If an enemy has an instant death move, you have to come up with a strategy that would prevent such an attack from happening or have an effect.

>Turn limit
This forces you to play aggressively. You can't spend all your actions in a given turn doing something that isn't damaging the enemy.

>>724215620
>I want to get completely fucked over through no fault of my own
That sound fucking awful, what makes you think that's a good thing?

>>724215416
so because the rest of the game is sort of shit you'd rather just watch gay animations play out instead of having a slightly skill-based mechanic part of the combat? there has to be a board where you people can go and post your drivel

>>724215620
I’m glad you aren’t a game designer

>>724215620
The problem with turn-based combat in RPGs is usually the player.
Whilst it is true that you can get through most classic RPGs by button mashing 'Attack', the people who claim this are leaving out the part where they get angry because they can't beat a boss, so they grind until they are overleveled to a point where they can kill that boss by just spamming 'Attack'.

A way to stop this would be by having a cap on LVL that raises along with progression through the game's story. This would force the player to utilise strategy, equipment, etc. rather than playing the game wrong and then blaming it. I think some new games do this or something similar (FF7R?) but it's an optional difficulty setting rather than a default.

>>724215620
>>Instant death moves
I can agree if you mean the enemies have attacks that will kill you instantly if you don't prepare and use a skill to disable or weaken them. Just the flat-out giving a lot of enemies whack sounds like torture.
>>Turn limit
Okay, if you mean this in an MMBN way, where if you kill foes fast enough you can get cool shit, I can get it. Or if that's the gimmick of several enemies, there's something you can do with that.

>>724212893 (OP)
Its tedious to watch walkthroughs of that garbage.

>>724215843
It's a good thing because it prevents games from being "solved" once you know how to beat it. Think of gambling games like Poker or Mahjong. You won't win every time, but there are ways to increase your chances of winning through strategies. And people play these games still on a competitive level. So yes, luck factor is a good thing.

>>724216276
Why not PLAY the game instead?

>>724216309
>And people play these games still on a competitive level
hoo boy i gotta train for the big Dragon Quest 4 tourney coming up

>>724214764
based. e33 is the most overrated slop i had the misfortune of playing
>le heckin GoT shock writing but unable to follow up on killing the only character anyone gave a fuck about
>le edgy existential ending with the depth of a puddle for pseudo-intellectual self-important redditors to wax on about and debate with their fellow 80 IQ jeets
>ugly character designs, enemy designs and UI
>terrible balancing that even an 80 IQ redditor can break by middle of Act II. oh stacking multipliers is good? who the fuck knew except everyone with a 6th grade education
I legit thought it was a 6.5/10 game and was shocked that all the midwits had it as GoTY or some all time great game when it was just a middle JRPG with a journey that lacks any of the catharsis that a real good JRPG has.

>>724213382
I mean... can you explain why?

>>724212893 (OP)
Why is turn-based combat?

>>724213248
JRPGs have solved a lot of the low level battle shit already. Trails in the sky remake for example lets you avoid most of them just by running past them on the map or if you want to fight them, you can just fight ARPG style without entering turn based mode.

>>724213736
Turn based combat is an evolution and improvement over D&D. D&D combat is dog shit and a fossil from the 70s when people didn't own computers and nothing was automated. so you had 4 neckbeards sitting around a table taking turns using a bunch of dumbed down formulas. Explain to me why I want D&D combat when I could have a computer that can calculate things like speed, turn priority, passing priority, ATB and a gazillion other things that 4 neckbeards huddled around a table can't do?

>>724213382
>It’s outdated
All this says is that you don't like it, but can't articulate why.

What are the most difficult turn based games that aren't just complete bullshit with free enemy turns out the ass?

>>724215907
>you'd rather just watch gay animations play out instead of having a slightly skill-based mechanic part of the combat?
the point I am trying to make is the QTE makes every other aspect of the combat pointless. You are invincible. Every battle is Simon Says (which is ironic, given the name of the superboss). There is ZERO strategy, you could intentionally run with the worst loadout imaginable and will win every battle eventually.
I don't mind QTE for attacks to add bonus damage output, similar to Mother 3 and some others but as a dodge/parry is just dumb design. Also shouldn't be QTEs for nearly every skill and attack, it's annoying.

As for the self indulgent long animations, that's their artistic decision. They were clearly very proud of the 2 unique character models they were able to animate and want you to stare at them

>>724212893 (OP)
>Lamia
Interesting

>>724213127
Anon, don't be mean.

>>724216309
>gambling
>competitive
I just had the sudden realization that turn based video games are, in fact, the natural progression of analog games like board and card games. Most of them are competitive by nature, and involve a lot of luck and gambling. Like yeah, it should be obvious with the D&D influence, but it goes deeper and further back than that. It reminds me of what >>724213248 said about Pokémon, which started as a standard monster taming JRPG and quickly embraced its competitive aspects. It even has a card game.

I find myself agreeing with you due to the fact that I hate everything about what that means, but I was never a big fan of turn based RPGs anyway. I feel that was the very thing I couldn't articulate about turn based RPGs: I don't like gambling or PvP either, but that's what the systems are built for. Single player RPGs are often turn based in spite of lacking these qualities. This results in that infamous mindless grind, and that's what's off about them.

>>724212893 (OP)
Romancing saga 3 is very complicated to play. Just recently learned that there's a secret boss.

>>724212893 (OP)
what game is this? it looks sick

>>724217523
>monster character
More games should go the ff6 roaming saga way.

>>724212893 (OP)
>Using bow with the last empress
Is it optimal?

>>724218352
Before anyone tells you to read the filename, it's Romancing SaGa 2. The filename failed to specify it's the 2nd entry in the Romancing SaGa trilogy.
>>724218412
Not sure for the original, but in the remake, you want t be using 1h weapons that scale off STR because there are more armor that boost the stat.

>>724212893 (OP)
You're not. Actiontroon defence force is getting desperate.

>>724218530
Which remake? I played the original and the mobile/steam release, and I always used 1 handed sword (easy to spark) and fists(high damage and heal) for my last emperor with Fire magic(for resurrection) and light magic(high magic damage).

>>724218852
The newest one, Revenge of the Seven. 1h weapons lets you use shields, and you can get a bonus of +12 STR from armor as opposed to +7 bonus from DEX.

>>724217523
Actually that's a mermaid. The nereid class.

>>724214961
I liked E33 a lot but desu in a normal turn based game I beat an encounter after figuring out the enemy weaknesses, when I should block an attack, what buffs/debuffs I should use. In E33 I beat an encounter after I figure out the parry timings. The game is closer to Sekiro than it is to most JRPGs desu.

>>724219250
AAH SHIT, THE KEKFISH!

>>724212893 (OP)
>Fires that many arrows into the air
>Looks cool
>Loads miss
Why not just fire them directly forward into the boss? Is he stupid?

>>724213127
Spoken like a true nigger.

>>724219431
it's an aoe skill that hits every enemy

>>724212893 (OP)
Non-whites can't stand turn-based games.