Thread 724545183

Say what you will about Undertale, this sequence brought all of us to tears. It proved to me video games COULD be art.

>>724545183 (OP)
Deeply agree. My fellow gamers, we all bow our heads in sadness when this moment is mentioned.

I will never play this game purely because the community seems like tumblr types that enjoy things like homestuck, hazbin hotel, and a bunch of other gay shit that screams "I have bad taste"
I'm sure a game with such a clean and safe look to it having "adult" themes is really engaging and deep for you but to me it's really gay

>>724545294
> I decide if I enjoy something based on peer pressure to conform to groups.
I wish niggers like you would go away

>>724545294
I will never play this game purely because I'm not a tranny

>>724545183 (OP)
I beat the game and thought the entire thing was pretentious and gay including this shit.

I pitty the type of guys who just refuse to engage with art because they don't want to be associated with it's fans. Like I enjoy undertale/deltarune but I won't engage with the fandom in any way, I've played porn games that turned out to be amazing because I gave them a chance despite not being interested at all in the genre. I've read weird manga despite how they looked and got hooked. Just saying, maybe give things a chance despite your own preconceived notions of it?

>>724545718
Gotta say I don't mean porn games and manga are "art" lol, that just makes me sound like a fucking weirdo. Just saying that people are too fucking pigheaded to try stuff they have no idea about. Been recommending my normie friend a game and he rather get raped by a dog than try something different

>>724545183 (OP)
Lame writing, ugly graphics, subpar gameplay, some amusing fourth-wall-breaks, excellent music. Also, anyone who uses singular they gets an automatic kick to the nads.

>>724545556
This. I'm not the audience for the troon game

>>724545183 (OP)
Have you ever said a sincere sentence as an adult?

>>724545845
>excellent music
*mediocore plagiarized music

daily reminder /v/ absolutely shit themselves loving on this game before it became popular with 12 year olds and the contrarianism mandate adjusted.

>>724545718
>I'm not like those other trannies

>>724546073
If this was true then Youtube videos would be full of the original tracks that inspired Undertale music, rather than Undertale music. Criticizing the game's music is an odd choice because it's the strongest aspect of the whole work. There are countless people who never played Undertale and yet love the music.

>>724546292
theres countless sub 80 IQ browns in the world too. theres countless taylor swift fans. doesnt mean anything.

>>724545183 (OP)
I would love to play Undertale, but unfortunately, my penis is still intact, sorry sisters.

It's kind of sad that Undertale, after 10 years, is still one of the best indie RPGs of all time. Why can no one else make anything at least as good as it? Have we, as a civilization, lost the technology?

>>724545798
If video games are art manga is too.
You only reading the equivalent of marvel movies doesn't change that.

>>724547095
according to trannies

>>724547095
I just played Undertale Yellow and it's a worthy fan prequel. Try the neutral route first and thank me later.
As for other indie RPGs, there are other greats like OFF, LISA, and Fear & Hunger. They just have much darker tones and lack the childlike whimsy of Undertale.

>>724547229
What I meant is that I don't consider Succubus Mansion "art" despite greatly enjoying the gameplay or manga like onani master kurosawa "art" despite having a great story with great themes and character development. At first glance, normies wouldn't even glance at those things because they're weird and touch topics they don't feel comfortable with, but if people would just try stuff they'd be surprised

>>724545183 (OP)
looks like every other RPGmaker game

>>724545294
Your assessment is 100% correct, Undertale's popularity is the game equivalent of Journey to the West, i.e. media that is popular because the group it belongs to wants to parade it around as "SEE?? even WE can make a game/even WE have a grand mythological tale" rather than due to any inherent quality, the work itself is okay at best but the people hyping it are fervent about their group and promoting its supremacy

>>724546115
Yeaah /v/ loved it so much it was voted the most hated game that year lmao

>>724545294
I'm like that with neon Genesis cause I hate how many pedos are in that community it just gave me a bad taste knowing the main characters are kids

>>724550332
>Undertale's popularity is the game equivalent of Journey to the West, i.e.
Journey to the west is literally more well known than every single western book ever made. Yeah, it has that role in the west but that's because most western people are uncultured swine feeding on marvel slop or pretensious myth nerds.

>>724551763
"It's me, Chara."

>>724551469
>Journey to the west is literally more well known than every single western book ever made
Not really, but that's beside the point, on its own it's an okay work only pushed so hard by the Chinese because they destroyed all their other myths and legends every time an usurpation of rule happened, and they happened a lot, then they realized oh shit this is cultural heritage that could better be used to establish a worldwide identity and so they went all in on what they had

Similarly tumblrfags couldn't scrape together a game if they tried because their values are anti-vidya, so when one actually did manage to cobble something together, they went all in as pushing it as a sign of "even tumblr can make games" even though it wasn't very good, which a lot of them were probably aware of

>>724545183 (OP)
I played it, got to this point, and it actually made me cringe with its forced “emotional music so therefore you have to feel emotional” and sob story about literal whos. If you’re under 18 and either a girl or a very effeminate boy (a tranny basically) then sure, I can understand it moving you to tears

>>724551469
>Journey to the west is literally more well known than every single western book ever made.
Bible

>>724551881
>Not really
Yes, it is. Same for all of the great chinese novels. Not a single western novel, not even Harry Potter, is as well known.

>because they destroyed all their other myths and legends every time an usurpation of rule happened
The fuck are you smoking? That happened literally fucking once and that was around the same time western people were still shitting in caves.

>cultural heritage that could better be used to establish a worldwide identity and so they went all in on what they had
Literally all of Asia is just Chinese cultural heritage.

>>724551963
>forced “emotional music so therefore you have to feel emotional”
That's literally every moment in UT, it tells you what to feel with music to avoid having to provoke the feeling on its own through story and context

>>724551995
>Western book
>Bible
No.

>>724545294
Based deducer

>>724552050
From what I remember it only eschews the usage of music in this manner when it wants to convey horror, which is also really cheap.

>>724552050
>People use music to make you feel something
Wow, how shocking.

Have you considered just reading books?

>>724552194
> in this manner when it wants to convey horror,
Nah, true lab is the most obvious horror section and it has plenty of music.

>>724552035
>Yes, it is. Same for all of the great chinese novels. Not a single western novel, not even Harry Potter, is as well known.
Anon above me already brought up the Bible, and the Odyssey is also more well known

>The fuck are you smoking? That happened literally fucking once
Then why are there only a handful of surviving tales across a 3000 year history and billions of people? Those western people shitting in caves somehow managed to produce more in less time

>Literally all of Asia is just Chinese cultural heritage.
Yeaah there's no Indian/Buddhist influence there at all

Anyway from the way you reacted I'm going to assume you're Chinese and defending JTTW so fervently for the exact reason I brought up, which is why tumblrfags defend UT so fervently as well, proving me 100% correct

>>724552195
Not him but yes, and they actually mog every other form of storytelling, because it relies on the quality of prose/poetry alone to tell a story, as well as your own images evoked from the language. Music is also better when there is no extraneous theme accompanying it. Take a fugue for example, even the title (for example, Contrapunctus XI a 4) has no external theme behind it, it’s not programmatic, it is pure music, and is some of the best music ever written.
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to have music and storytelling accompany each other, of course not, but in undertale’s case it really is carried solely by the music

>>724545183 (OP)
Idk, the idea that they are all wishing me dead for their own purposes made me feel pretty justified in killing a bunch of them. I don't feel sorry for people who hate me because I'm not a tranny communist still living at my mom's house.

>>724545183 (OP)
you sound very gay, OP

>>724552348
>Bible
Not a western book.

>Odyssey
Lol no. In raw numbers it's far more obscure. Same for per capita.

>Then why are there only a handful of surviving tales across a 3000 year history and billions of people?
What the fuck do you mean a handful? Do you have any idea just how much fucking Chinese literature is out there?

>Yeaah there's no Indian/Buddhist influence there at all
Most Buddhism in places like Thailand and Japan is heavily influenced by Chinese culture.

>Anyway from the way you reacted I'm going to assume you're Chinese and defending JTTW so fervently for the exact reason I brought up
I'm dutch and white. I just think your arguments are retarded.

>>724552261
I’m referring to the little moments sans going all hollow eyed on you, or the flower with his annoying “gotcha” moments.

>>724545294
Your missing out

>>724551080
that's just anime in general though

>>724552348
>Then why are there only a handful of surviving tales across a 3000 year history and billions of people?
Because retards love burning down libraries when they're chimping out during wars.

>>724545718
i gave undertale a chance and it was ok. maybe it would have been better if i wasnt massively spoiled on the whole "the game knows when you savescum and killing people in this game is actually wrong" crap. there were a few funny moments that got a giggle out of my shriveled 4chanarian heart but overall the game was one of those forced humor quirky chungus games

(this was 10+ years ago so my memory might be wrong but) i remember seeing an area off to the side of a puzzle, altering the puzzle to go to that area, and picked up an item. the item was nothing. the game then said "dude what the heck did u think this was?? a VIDEO GAME?? heh not every side path has an epic reward xDD". then the end of the game has the big story climax (that i was already spoiled on) of "killing people in a video game.......is le bad!" maybe thats really impressive art to you but to me its really gay low effort shit thats more anti-video game than pro-art. you know when kids grow up from being toddlers and go through that phase of really hating barney and proving they are grown up by singing songs about killing and dismembering him? undertale feels like that to me. its "art" in the sense that it constantly reminds you that its "not like the other childish games look how different and mature it is"

i really dislike the term "engage with art" so ive been typing this post with seething clenched jawed hatred. fags only use that term one way - "play my fag game and treat it as art". nobody ever points out its a two way street, psueds never engage with the art of crudely presented medium. ive never seen hipster artfags praise the animation quality of a call of duty game or a micheal bay transformers movie, ya know? it just seems a bit hypocritical to me, the phrase is always used to get people to try the things fags like and never the other way around

>>724552557
>Not him but yes, and they actually mog every other form of storytelling, because it relies on the quality of prose/poetry alone to tell a story
That's a valid stance to have even if I personally disagree.

>but in undertale’s case it really is carried solely by the music
I disagree. Undertale has a lot more nobs to turn in the first place than books or even movies. Player involvement, direction, graphics, sound effects. The music is the center around which everything orbits (No shit, Toby is a composer), but it excels in most categories.

>>724552607
A white dutch person wouldn't have such a hard time differentiating the east and the west, discerning myths and legends from literature, and wouldn't have an interest in denying the massive Indian and Buddhist influence on Asia while ascribing it to China

>>724552607
>The Bible
>Not a western book
Anon, it was originally written in Greek, which is considered part of the western world. And if we’re going by the content therein, it constitutes western doctrines and philosophies far more than it does the east. It’s literally fundamental to the western canon

>>724552660
Those moments are rare and typically accompanied by good usage of sound effects. It's just solid cutscene design. The literal difference between somebody actually trying and the worst example of people talking in a blank room you often get in more lazy games.

>>724552827
>(No shit, Toby is a composer)
*plagiarist

>>724552761
Name two examples of that happening.

>>724552761
Which is what I brought up as the reason in the first place

>>724547095
too many people treat "indie" as a synonym for "amateur". toby fox was already a pro established artist with big popular hits under his belt when he started undertale. way too many indie game devs are nobodies making their first ever thing

>>724545183 (OP)
You lie anon! I never cri

>>724551995
>bible takes place in the geographic region called "the middle east"
>guy on /v/: "the bible is western"

>>724552827
Well I’m glad you enjoy it anon, for all the flaws I find personally in it, it has a pretty nice vision, and the execution depends on your preferences I suppose, and yeah I like the music too, regardless of whether it’s plagiarised or not (I actually think deltarune’s music is much better).

>>724553149
Journey to the West takes place.. in the west, making it a western myth

>>724552860
>A white dutch person wouldn't have such a hard time differentiating the east and the west
I do not. Anybody pretending fucking Syria or Egypt is western is being incredibly disingenuous.

>discerning myths and legends from literature
Then why the fuck did you bring up the iliad OR journey to the west in the first place? You do know the Trojan war didn't actually happen, right?

>and wouldn't have an interest in denying the massive Indian and Buddhist influence on Asia while ascribing it to China
No? Both are very influential, but emphasis on both. You can't have one without the other and still have modern asia.

>>724552889
>Anon, it was originally written in Greek
It was originally written in Hebrew, or at least most of it was. The Septuagint was a translation. Meanwhile, the New testament was written in Koine Greek. Which was literally the simplified international version used in in places like Egypt and Syria. It's akin to saying Moby Dick is British because it's written in English.

>it constitutes western doctrines and philosophies far more than it does the east.
Because it defined those doctrines and philosophies. Not because it embodied them. If anything, the opposite was true. The bible was implemented in rejection of Germanic and Greek cultural norms and served largely to replace them.

>It’s literally fundamental to the western canon
So is the Epic of Gilgamesh and that story isn't western either.

>>724553154
I don't really care about the plagiarism accusation. It doesn't go much deeper than "Undyne the Undying's theme has ZUN trumpets". Which is silly anyway when ZUN himself stole from everything.

>>724553149
That’s kind of retarded, is Steel Ball Run a western comic because it takes place in the American frontier? No.
The Bible was written by the erudite literates of the west.

>>724553182
>journey to the west takes place in the geographic region known as "india"
>shitskin on /v/: "india is western"

kys pajeet

>>724553489
It does though, it's really damning

>>724553182
It doesn't. It's about the journey of a Chinese Buddhist monk through the region of what is nowadays considered China.

>>724553507
>The Bible was written by the erudite literates of the west.
It was written by Syrians and Jews in a language used almost entirely by people living in the middle east.

>>724553512
Ah but you fell into my trap, you admitted JTTW is an Indian myth and not a Chinese one according to your clown logic

>>724553546
A journey into.. India. making it an Indian myth

>>724553507
are you confusing the bible for the new testament exclusively? the old testament wasnt written by white european dudes

>>724553515
Name some examples. Because nothing is more blatant than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YISMr0ZIIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_-7OXophY&list=RDXy_-7OXophY&start_radio=1

>>724553402
>I do not. Anybody pretending fucking Syria or Egypt is western is being incredibly disingenuous.
A western person would know these areas were under roman occupation at the time

>Then why the fuck did you bring up the iliad OR journey to the west in the first place? You do know the Trojan war didn't actually happen, right?
A western person wouldn't have trouble following the thread of thought that brought up JTTW as the one myth the Chinese push because they burned the rest down, your clown ass brought up literature

>No? Both are very influential, but emphasis on both. You can't have one without the other and still have modern asia.
Cool so you admit you were lying when you said "Literally all of Asia is just Chinese cultural heritage"

>>724553669
https://streamvi.com/watch/1800055523878752

I personally think the Kirby Block Ball example makes it conclusive

>>724553753
>A western person would know these areas were under roman occupation at the time
That doesn't make them part of the west. They had a their own culture and history, and you can see far more middle eastern influences in the bible than greek ones.

>A western person wouldn't have trouble following the thread of thought that brought up JTTW as the one myth the Chinese push because they burned the rest down
Because it's the result of poor western education? Yes. Thankfully, I liked to do actually educate myself so I know everything you said is complete nonsense.

>Cool so you admit you were lying when you said "Literally all of Asia is just Chinese cultural heritage"
No? You can debate about exact influences if you want but the simple reality is that everybody in Asia lives in what are essentially just chinese inspired socities. India is very similiar in that regard.

>>724553653
>discussion about what broad part of the world specific stories are from
>guy on /v/: "aha youve fallen into my trap because out of nowhere ive decided the conversation is about specific countries!"

really man
is that the best youve got
if its an indian myth its still eastern, just like the bible

>>724553857
Almost all of these are way less blatant than the example I showed.

>>724553974
So both the Bible and JTTW are indian but not western nor chinese, India superpower 2020 is seemingly more likely every day

>>724553996
You managed to listen to 15 minutes in 2 minutes huh

>>724545183 (OP)
I feel bad for zoomers.
You grew up in the slop age and never got to experience peak cinema.
You're like animals, you don't know any better.

>>724554046
Bible is middle eastern. If you want to be less specific, it's eastern.

Unironically, yes, it does actually have more in common with Journey to the west than greek literartry traditon.

you could just say you liked it without being faggy about it

>>724554114
I skimmed through most of the examples where i acutally knew the soundtrack. They are largely nonsense.

>>724554131
Post zoomers that play Undertale know how to run a emulator.

>>724554168
*literary tradition

>>724554216
>They are largely nonsense.
Ah so you're just coping

If you didn't tear up here you have no soul.
https://youtu.be/1HIKNbnV8nw?si=yYyrowdy4eztsIQt

>>724553934
>That doesn't make them part of the west. They had a their own culture and history, and you can see far more middle eastern influences in the bible than greek ones.
Which was heavily influenced by the roman occupation, otherwise you could claim silly shit like "because the American region is populated by white Europeans today, that means the Fire God myth from thousands of years ago is a white American myth and not an indigenous American one", you seem to struggle with basic object permanence

>Because it's the result of poor western education? Yes. Thankfully, I liked to do actually educate myself so I know everything you said is complete nonsense.
Your ESLness and lack of comprehension confirms the fact you're not white nor western

>No? You can debate about exact influences if you want but the simple reality is that everybody in Asia lives in what are essentially just chinese inspired socities. India is very similiar in that regard.
Yet JTTW was about a Chinese monk going to India for Indian scriptures and preferring dying there to living in the east, curious..

>>724554272
No, they are nonsense.

There are a few examples that are deliberately using soundfonts as a shout out. But claiming the Persona 2 boss theme sounds like Power of Neo is genuinly psychotic. For fuck sake, one of the examples is literally from a scene that is a direct parody of FF6, claiming that it ripped off FF6.

>>724554308
>if you're not a homosexual like me you don't have a soul

>>724553402
>>724553608
>>724553668
Of course, when referring to the Dead Sea Scrolls for example, and no I won’t argue that it had its origins in eastern minded principles. I should have mentioned that when stating it was written in Greek, but when I refer to it as purely a piece of western literature, it is due to the fact that it was over years of conquest of the Hebrew lands and expanded upon in Greek, and then Latin, and so forth, it became one of the foundations for discovering how western traditions grew, along with Roman and Greek mythology. It was as if these ideas espoused by the Greek scholars and Roman patricians were subsumed into the Tanakh and thus expanded upon in the New Testament. And considering the literary and cultural impact (take Aquinas, Augustine, Dante) it has had on the west in comparison to the east. I’d argue it is western literature. As many who could explain this much better than I would argue too.

>>724554384
They're nonsense, yet Toby himself admitted to a large part of them, either directly or indirectly, which means you're coping

>>724545183 (OP)
I don't particularly like the sequence but the way monsters open up to you while you're walking is kind of memorable; especially the ones that have to tell the part that the human had died

>>724545294
You're not wrong, but it is a pretty decent game.

>>724554342
>Which was heavily influenced by the roman occupation
It wasn't. You should read how the Roman occupation actually functioned and how long they were present.

>"because the American region is populated by white Europeans today, that means the Fire God myth from thousands of years ago is a white American myth and not an indigenous American one
The romans occupied Syria for less than a century when the new testament was written and genuinly just let them do as they please. If somebody in a native American retreat TODAY would write a myth it would probably be viewed as native America literature rather than American, and America has been around on that continent much longer than the romans were around in Syria when hte bible was written.

>Your ESLness and lack of comprehension confirms the fact you're not white nor western
You can keep denying reality all you want, but like Chinese literature being more popular globally reality always wins.

>Yet JTTW was about a Chinese monk going to India for Indian scriptures and preferring dying there to living in the east,
...He went back, anon. That was the whole point.

>>724554429
>no I won’t argue that it had its origins in eastern minded principles
Sorry meant to say that I won’t argue AGAINST that

>>724554460
>Yet toby himself
Yes, anon, he made music sound like the games he was obviously doing a shout out to. That's why the opera scene parodying FF6 sounds like the scene in FF6. That's why the music during the dating scene meant to mimick a visual novel sounded like music from a famous visual novel.

>>724554429
>it became one of the foundations for discovering how western traditions grew, along with Roman and Greek mythology.
it didn't "grow alongside' Roman and Greek mythology. It largely killed it. That's not even getting into the actual west. Spain, Gaul, Germania, Britain, Dacia, and most of Italy all had their cultural traditions wiped out.

>>724554579
>It wasn't
Yeaaah not like Jesus's existence, whether real or fictional, is intended as a counter to the roman occupation, and not like they were the ones that killed him kicking off the existence of the Bible and Christianity as a whole, totally not influenced by the Romans at all

>If somebody in a native American retreat TODAY would write a myth it would probably be viewed as native America literature rather than American
If that myth was about fighting the white American occupation you could say it's American

>You can keep denying reality all you want, but like Chinese literature being more popular globally reality always wins.
lmao you already exposed yourself, no need to double down like this

>...He went back, anon. That was the whole point.
To bring the Indian influence back to China, yes

Pity its ruined by the reveal. Sorry for the hot take but the final battle sucks. You literally can't lose

>>724545183 (OP)
I like the new home sequence but I always felt that the "despite everything, it's still you" sequence was overrated. The song is amazing, though.

>>724554678
And in addition to that he admitted to things that would be considered plagiarism if said by anyone else, such as pic related, or the FUN tweet (which he deleted, probably realizing how bad it looks)

>>724554781
>Yeaaah not like Jesus's existence, whether real or fictional, is intended as a counter to the roman occupation,
About half of the bible happened before Jesus existed. And, again, you are literally justifying how the bible is a part of the western canon when it was, by your own admission, opposed to the west.

>If that myth was about fighting the white American occupation you could say it's American
Nobody is going to claim the turner diary is chinese.

>lmao you already exposed yourself, no need to double down like this
Facts don't lie.

>To bring the Indian influence back to China, yes
Yes? Did I argue otherwise.

>>724554787
Final boss suffers from being too easy but is emotionally pretty cool. Asgore being the hardest boss in the game normally I always feel was a mistake.

>>724554395
Indeed.

>>724554860
Source? Because if this is as retarded as the previous link you send it should be worth a laugh.

>>724545294
>I'm not playing a video game because people that I will never meet, talk to, or even be within a 1000 mile radius of, like said game
Sad fucking retard

>>724554858
The entire final sequence of the game is pretty impressive considering how it's honestly pretty short.
>Big bombastic fight against Mettaton.
>Short hallway where Alphys as a character basically leaves the story (Until you get to true pacfist) and tells you that you HAVE to kill Asgore if you want to leave the underground.
>Brief moment of relaxation.
>Huge game changer in the form of the New Home exposition dump that re-contexutalizes much of the story.
>Book end in the form of Asgore's home mirroring Toriel's.
>Entire segment spend talking with Asgore.
>The actual fight against Asgore.
>Actually having to pick if you kill or spare Asgore.
>Flowey suddenly showing up and killing Asgore and/or destroying his soul before stealing the human souls.
>Game going full Metal Gear Solid 2 and breaking the fourth wall.
>All of the Omega Flowey fight.
>Getting to spare or kill Flowey.
>Brief quite moment.
>Ending, credits, and Sans phone epilogue.

I remember getting to New Home and thinking "Shit, game is almost over already? That's a shame." Yet, by the end of it, I honestly felt satisfied in a way that is incredibly rare from video games.

>>724555530
Yeah, I really like the neutral ending. I feel like genocide and true pacifist overshadowed how great the New Home segment, Asgore fight and Omega Flowey fight are. I always loved Asriel and Chara's story before we learn the truth.

>>724545183 (OP)
MANY YEARS
MANY TEARS
WE LIVE ON
DESPITE OUR FEARS
DO NOT CRY
FREEDOM'S COME
WITH YOUR DEATH
WE'LL SEE THE SUN

>>724545294
I played it. I didn't see the appeal. I don't remember much because it was an unfunny fever dream.

>>724556054
Thanks to our savior Asgore
We will be trapped no more

>>724556101
>the new version of Hopes and Dreams

>>724545294
>kermit-loses-it.jpg

>>724554778
>grow alongside
I’m not saying that, I’m saying how these three are fundamental to understanding how the western world evolved into what it is now, how the west had integrated Jewish texts into their own culture, let me just say that, the Tanakh is purely a Middle Eastern piece of literature, insofar that it rejected contemporaneous polytheistic thought and the actual geographical location of which it was written, but when coalesced with the New Testament (though in itself is somewhat of a critical diatribe to Rome) on top of the past 1000 years of westernisation through art and philosophy. It has become a staple of western literature. Even then, I suppose it’s always going to be a matter of contention.

>>724556351
Oh and of course the Hebrew Bible itself being a more symbolistic text rather than something tangible or logical. Which is very eastern too

>>724545294
>the community
just ignore it?
>born to not give a shit, forced to care
not my problem, game's fun

>>724556268
I still prefer the old one. Yandere Asriel is the best. New one lacks the sauce.

>>724555843
>I always loved Asriel and Chara's story before we learn the truth.
Honestly, the fact I had to play the game twice to get the true ending (Killed toriel and decided to keep going) helped in that regard for me.

>>724556351
To me it kind of feels like claiming the communist manifesto is Chinese literature because China is currently chinese. I can vaguely understand the underlying logic but it still feels self evidnetly wrong.

>>724556949
*China is currently communist

Insert that one clip from Shenmue here.

>>724555142
That's the melody structure of the Megalovania intro compared to the Brandish 2 track Gadobadorrer intro, which Toby cited as an inspiration
>"also, the last boss music was a little inspired by brandish 2's, see if you can catch the similarities" - Toby Fox on the making of Radiation's Halloween Hack.
When Robin Thicke and Pharrel admitted Blurred Lines was aiming for a similar feel as Got to Give It Up by Marvin Gaye they were successfully sued for plagiarism, despite the two tracks NOT sharing the same melody structure like Megalovania and Gadobadorrer do

Pic related is Toby's tweet where he brings up the SpongeBob track he cribbed the Your Best Friend melody from, which he later deleted

>>724556876
I wish more people did that rather than spare everyone in their first playthrough. The game was built for multiple replays.

>>724557471
>When Robin Thicke and Pharrel admitted Blurred Lines was aiming for a similar feel as Got to Give It Up by Marvin Gaye they were successfully sued for plagiarism
Different between that and "Little inspired".

>Pic related is Toby's tweet where he brings up the SpongeBob track he cribbed the Your Best Friend melody from, which he later deleted
That's a baffling stretch even ignoring the fact 99% of the music in spongebob is literally copyright free.

>>724555014
>About half of the bible happened before Jesus existed.
Okay? The Bible itself wouldn't exist without the Romans

>And, again, you are literally justifying how the bible is a part of the western canon when it was, by your own admission, opposed to the west.
Doctor Zhivago opposed the Russian regime at the time, does that make it a non-Russian book?

>Nobody is going to claim the turner diary is chinese.
True, why would they

>Facts don't lie.
True, my facts have all been true so far, all you produced is an ESL jumbled mess that missed every point and proved you're Chinese

>Yes? Did I argue otherwise.
You did, when you said "Literally all of Asia is just Chinese cultural heritage"

>>724557472
I went into Undertale VERY blind and even I knew about the whole "You don't have to kill anybody" thing. I only killed toriel because I assumed you could spare her when you get her hp low enough (Wrong boss monster...) and decided to keep mostly because I promised myself to do that. No regrets, ended up defining a lot of my experience.

Really, I kind of wish the true pacifist route was harder to find.

>>724557567
>Different between that and "Little inspired".
Yeah, because they didn't share the same structure as the Gaye song, whereas Megalovnia does, which is far more egregious and proof of plagiarism

>That's a baffling stretch even ignoring the fact 99% of the music in spongebob is literally copyright free.
The F.U.N song was literally custom composed for the show

>>724557728
>The Bible itself wouldn't exist without the Romans
Old Testament would have.

> does that make it a non-Russian book?
No, because he WAS Russian. He was not opposed to Russia as a country.

>True, why would they
Because it's about fighting foreigners.

>True, my facts have all been true so far,
Nope, they all have been demonstrably false.

>You did, when you said "Literally all of Asia is just Chinese cultural heritage"
Are you sure you aren't Chinese? you seem properly autistic enough for that.

>>724557873
>Yeah, because they didn't share the same structure as the Gaye song, whereas Megalovnia does
It doesn't, nor does Toby say as much.

Also most pop music follows the same structure.

>The F.U.N song was literally custom composed for the show
1: It's a huge stretch regardless. 2: Still kind of funny.

>>724558006
>It doesn't, nor does Toby say as much.
He doesn't have to, the notes tell the story

>Also most pop music follows the same structure.
Not like this they don't

>1: It's a huge stretch regardless
It's not, it's pretty clear cut especially given Toby's tweet

You are experiencing vast amounts of cope rn

>>724557908
>Old Testament would have.
And yet the Old Testament is not the Bible

>No, because he WAS Russian. He was not opposed to Russia as a country.
He was in its form at the time

>Because it's about fighting foreigners.
Foreigners in America, Jesus was born in the Roman Empire

>Nope, they all have been demonstrably false.
Poor deflection after all your ESL word salads have been thoroughly dismantled

>Are you sure you aren't Chinese? you seem properly autistic enough for that.
I'm not the one desperately posting blatant lie after lie in defense of China's supremacy

>>724557783
Undertale was made for a neutral route first. You're supposed to kill whoever you want until you finish the game and feel guilty enough to reset for a better ending. You actually played it the intended way.

>>724558098
>The notes
Not really, no.

>Not like this they don't
It's way more obvious, yeah.

>It's not, it's pretty clear cut especially given Toby's tweet
He was referencing Spongebob. I'm pretty sure he's not even referencing any scene where the Flowey/Best friend motif plays.

>>724558242
>And yet the Old Testament is not the Bible
It is. Are you insane?

>He was in its form at the time
Well, Jesus was opposed to it in any form, in any time.

>Foreigners in America, Jesus was born in the Roman Empire
Globally.

>Poor deflection after all your ESL word salads have been thoroughly dismantled
Name one example.

>I'm not the one desperately posting blatant lie after lie in defense of China's supremacy
See above.

>>724558285
Like I said, I mostly spared people (That tends to be how I played games anyway) but I tend to try and stick with my choices even if they are bad.

Do like how the game calls you out if you go back and save toriel after killing her though. Must have been kind of cool during a blind playthrough. Still, overall, wish it was harder to get the good ending first. Only fight I could see people get stuck on is Undyne. Rest is very obvious.

>>724558286
>Not really, no.
Yes, really, yes.

>It's way more obvious, yeah.
Nope, Blurred Lines doesn't share any note structures with Got To Give It Up and was still ruled plagiarism

>He was referencing Spongebob
He thought he was being cute but he deleted the tweet when he realized he could get in legal trouble for it since Viacom doesn't fuck around

Cope until the heat death of the universe, it's pretty clear cut

>>724545845
Singular they has been used since the 14th century.

>>724558498
Even the notes you showed make it clear that it's wrong.

>Nope, Blurred Lines doesn't share any note structures with Got To Give It Up and was still ruled plagiarism
Cause structure does not define plagiarisms.

>He thought he was being cute but he deleted the tweet when he realized he could get in legal trouble for it since Viacom doesn't fuck aroun
He was being cute. Viacom being weird doesn't change that, nor is it evidence for actual plagiarism. Most of the companies you showed in that video of yours are just as bad btw.

>>724545294
ok goy

>>724558364
>It is. Are you insane?
It's a part of it, it's not THE Bible

>Well, Jesus was opposed to it in any form, in any time.
According to your logic he was opposed to modern day Israel which just happened to be occupied by Romans at the time

>Globally.
They can't be foreigners globally retard

>Name one example.
Any of your posts has a wealth of them

>See above.
Again, all your posts are very blatant about it

>>724545294
True, game is pretentious but it got good music sometimes

>>724558621
>Even the notes you showed make it clear that it's wrong.
No they're actually blatant evidence of plagiarism which Toby himself partly admitted to, your inability to accept it even after being shown the evidence is indicative of ridiculous levels of cope

>Cause structure does not define plagiarisms.
It actually does

>He was being cute. Viacom being weird doesn't change that, nor is it evidence for actual plagiarism
It is

>>724558498
> it's pretty clear cut
No, not at all. It's a nonsense argument. At absolute worst, if you apply this same logic, everybody is a thief.

>>724558667
Fellowship of the Ring is not THE lord of the ring. Still part of it.

>According to your logic he was opposed to modern day Israel
He would be. But either way, the point is he wants Rome gone and Isreal free. He got both of those.

>Any of your posts
Specific examples.

>>724558473
>Do like how the game calls you out if you go back and save toriel after killing her though. Must have been kind of cool during a blind playthrough.
Pretty sure that was the main hook for the demo.

>>724558736
>which Toby himself partly admitted to,
He said he was inspired by. No the same thing.

>It actually does
Then all pop music is plagarism since it all steals from each other.

>It is
It's not, because most companies are greedy and the scene he was referencing does not feature the motif you are talking about.

>>724558778
Either that or the genocide ending.

Must have made people wonder what the fuck is up with the red text.

>>724556949
We can’t say for sure who wrote the New Testament, but it established Christianity, which adheres to the old and new. But I can say that it was most certainly written for koine Greek speaking gentiles and written by at least one gentile, during a period in which the Roman Empire reigned. So that’s why I stated though the Hebrew Bible is undeniably eastern, and based around eastern traditions and mysticism (see the Kabbalah), the Christian Bible accentuates on the Gospel primarily, which had many Hellenistic influences itself. Which makes it more western than eastern in my eyes.
So if the communist manifesto were expanded upon and written with Chinese principles in mind, then yes, that could be considered eastern literature. But because it isn’t, no.

>>724558820
>He said he was inspired by. No the same thing.
So did Pharrel and Thicke, and they made a song that doesn't share a structure with their inspiration and were still ruled plagiarists, Toby both said he was inspired by Brandish and copied a structure from it, making it undeniable he plagiarized it

>Then all pop music is plagarism since it all steals from each other.
Not really since plagiarist cases like Blurred Lines have action taken against them, there's no reason to risk it when you can make original composition while sticking to accepted staples like popular chord progressions which aren't plagiarism

>It's not, because most companies are greedy and the scene he was referencing does not feature the motif you are talking about.
He referenced the FUN song, whose melody is 1:1 lifted for Your Best Friend, and then deleted it since in the case of being sued the tweet could be accepted as evidence acknowledging the track he plagiarized

>>724559002
>koine Greek speaking gentiles
Koine greece was mostly spoken in the middle east.

>the Christian Bible accentuates on the Gospel primarily, which had many Hellenistic influences itself.
The new Testament is overwelmignly inspired by eastern spiritual practices like Zoroastrianism. Greek influences only became more important when Christianity became a part of the roman state.

>>724559061
Not been following this but let me just say that yeah Toby Fox is a hack but the newer deltatroon music is pretty decent even if he just uses the same fucking motif.

>>724559061
>, and they made a song that doesn't share a structure
Cause structure does not matter.

>Not really since plagiarist cases like Blurred Lines have action taken against them
It does since like you said it did not share structure.

>He referenced the FUN song
In a context of a scene in which Your Best Friend does not play. So, it's irrelevant.

The only actual spongebob comparison you could make is that Sans voice grunting is just sped up Patrick.

>>724559237
His use of leimotif is what makes his shit memorable though.

>>724545294
I've never played it either. Zoomers overhyped it too much for me to even give it a try.

>>724558903
A lot of people thought it was separating the player from the protagonist. A lot of people didn't expect another human.

>>724559256
>Cause structure does not matter.
It actually matters a lot

>It does since like you said it did not share structure.
That means that even if you don't share structure you can still be ruled plagiarism if you admit to copying your inspiration, sharing structure with it makes it undeniable

>In a context of a scene in which Your Best Friend does not play. So, it's irrelevant.
What the fuck are you talking about

Stop coping and accept undeniable facts

does anyone have the meme of the things games do where they make/encourage you to kill people then call you a bad person for killing people?
popped into my head because its undertale-adjacent but i cant find it anywhere

>>724545336
This is literally rune/tale fags in a nutshell, are you fucking serious?

>>724559338
>the shitty pop songs being overplayed on the radio and public sound systems is what makes them memorable
Indeed

>>724545294
Liked the music, horrid dogshit system. I thought this was going to be an earthbound like rpg not bullet hell shit.

>>724559449
if i didnt like it then i wouldnt seek out other people who like it so where would the peer pressure even come from

>>724552823
>maybe it would have been better if i wasnt massively spoiled on the whole
I'm convinced this is the problem with half of this board. They lurk in threads about games they haven't, takes sides in discussions they know nothing about and ruin any chance of experiencing any new game organically.
Then when they are called out on it they regress into some cope about owning the shills, trannies or some other boogieman that is ruining their board. Pathetic.
Undertale was fine. Played it blind when it was the fotm, finished it. Inored the haters and the admittedly weird fandom and moved on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xaM1I5WECc&list=RDoyzsRJW3Xxw&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TUeUL7EW9M&list=RD6TUeUL7EW9M&start_radio=1
Plagiarism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX3bN5YeiQs&list=RDBX3bN5YeiQs&start_radio=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhHeNhTtCew&list=RDMhHeNhTtCew&start_radio=1
Plagiarism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwHrQdC02FY&list=RDWwHrQdC02FY&start_radio=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CBjxGdgC1w
Plagiarism.

Who is the real thief now?

>>724547095
it doesn't even make top 10, troon. Play more games

>>724559435
>It actually matters a lot
It does not.

>if you admit to copying your inspiration
Which he did not do.

>What the fuck are you talking about
The man is allowed to reference Spongebob. It would be one thing if his tweet referenced a scene in which "Your best firend" plays. but he didn't.

Also see: >>724559723

>>724559816
>It does not.
It does

>Which he did not do.
He did

>The man is allowed to reference Spongebob
He is, but referencing the specific song from SpongeBob that sounds identical to a song to your game and then deleting that tweet makes you seem mighty suspicious

>>724552823
>you know when kids grow up from being toddlers and go through that phase of really hating barney and proving they are grown up by singing songs about killing and dismembering him? undertale feels like that to me.
What thats called is immaturity and juvenile writing. It's like when helluva boss or hazbin would swear for no reason other than to be "edgy" and look cool. Tale/rune is stuck in this perpetual juvenile interpretation of good and evil and morality in general to the point where it unfortunately has to give way to spectacle and gimmick instead of being more developed. It doesn't help that the fanbase acts like angsty tumblr 13 years shipfagging all day either

>>724559630
Undertale is the KING of games people didn't play but were massive fans of though, it's the modern online ur example of a game that got big solely because of its fandom rather than inherent quality, which is why people who wanted to socialize and fit in attached themselves to it without playing it

>>724559919
See: >>724559723

Even if he is correct, he stole from thieves. Thus, it does not matter.

Why did a game with one-dimensional characters bring about autists like OP to tears?

>>724560141
The topic being discussed is the merit of the music/composer, and plagiarized music doesn't have merit

>>724553041
>toby fox was already a pro established artist with big popular hits under his belt when he started undertale.
Such as?

>>724560112
>Tale/rune is stuck in this perpetual juvenile interpretation of good and evil and morality in general
Undertale is a fairy tale. Even then, it still has moments of genuine morale ambiguity and basically has one of the characters point out "Life isn't that simple on the surface". The fact that a character like Asgore is seen as redeemable already shows some degree of depth that you pretty rarely get from games.

Deltarune meanwhile is largely about being a teenager. While the writing can be juvenile at times, it very much captures the feeling of growing up and realizing the world ISN'T that black and white. While it's a bit early to call it right now it's pretty obvious most of the obvious villainous characters are red herrings or have more going on beneath the surface.

>>724560261
Then no composer working in the video game industry has merit, making them all equally worthless.

>>724560120
>Undertale is the KING of games people didn't play but were massive fans of though, it's the modern online ur example of a game that got big solely because of its fandom rather than inherent quality,
Touhou exists and is worse in that regard in every way.
>Not a modern example
Nah, it's only gotten worse and yet the fandom still clings on.

Also 40K but that game has a insane barrier of entry.

What the fuck is this thread?

>>724561156
How would season 0 Yugi do in the Underground? What kind of games would he play?

>>724561156
two retards fighting

>>724559136
>Zoroastrianism
Sure, I didn’t say it wasn’t entirely western inspired, what with the eschatology and dualism presented in the book of Revelation and Jesus the messiah, I would argue that the Hellenism has a greater presence with Jesus being referred to as theios aner and homoousios (same substance as God) being derived from Aristotle’s ousia (substance) and gnostic theology inspired by Plato’s theory of forms (as well as sort of a rejection of it) with the notion that everything and everyone is from the consubstantial with God. And of course John referring to Christ as logos (the word).

>>724545183 (OP)
Undertale was disappointingly short and it is essentially a movie game with gameplay not mattering much outside a few situations. I remember feeling empty after I finished it because it was so much less than the hype had me expecting.

>>724561156
Typical Undertale thread.

>>724561405
Basically, what I’m trying to say is that I don’t even care about Undertale, never played it and I don’t even know why I’m in a thread for a tranny game on a video game board discussing theology with someone.

>>724560141
>John Williams
>thief
kys tranny

>>724561486
Deltarune is frustrating because it has a little deeper gameplay than Undertale and the fights are more fun, but Toby has such aversion to difficulty that it never achieves its full potential. He wants everyone to be able to complete it and see the story, so the required fights are all cakewalks. Some are like the Asriel and Flowey fights from Undertale in that they're just a step or two above being cutscenes. The secret bosses are the only fights that get close to interesting, and you only get one of those per chapter (technically two in chapter 3)

>>724562012
Yes, actually.

>>724545294
I played the game on release. It's good. But the Tumblr effect is real. There are certain things that I simply can't enjoy or want to associate myself with because of the fanbase.

>>724562695
Agree, difficulty really could be way higher. Game would benefit massively from a hard mode.

One of my goals with my Touhou fangame is to up the difficulty. Granted, I still want the game to be clearable by most people so I might throw in some grinding methods.

>>724551080
you're missing out on nothing, nge sucks ass

>>724552823
>an actually good post in /v/
based. You explained it exactly what I feel from the whole game. You can also think it can be a product of its time when people were less cynical about things but I do agree with you that it is very pretentious.

>>724562796
>Transforms the original work/inspirations significantly
>Thief
kys

>>724552823
>ive never seen hipster artfags praise the animation quality of a call of duty game or a micheal bay transformers movie, ya know?
That's up to you though. People praise those aspects all the time in more serious analysis that isn't just Channel Awesome esque reviews.

Though, "animation quality of a call of duty game", lol? Most Cod games have shit animations. Both practically and realistically. Like, at least the CGI in Transformers is actually pretty impressive despite the poor shot composition and designs.

>>724563162
As much as Toby fox, or any game developer really.

>>724563106
>Pretensious
Not really. That's the one critique I don't get. If anything it's rather simple and largely doesn't try to be much more. It's like calling a 90's Disney movie pretentious.

>>724560381
>Asgore is seen as redeemable already shows some degree of depth that you pretty rarely get from games.
Play more games

>>724563627
I have.

I hate to tell you this, but the standards for game writing are low. Very low. Yeah, something like Star Control 2 has some degree of depth (While also being a old school example of a funny quirky chungus game) but those are more exceptions proving the rule.

>>724563492
A simple story is something like
>it's a children's cartoon, the good guys are good, they fight the bad guys because they're bad, they win, the end
A pretentious story could go something like
>it's an RPG Maker game for children but the good guys are good, or are they, but the bad guys are bad, or are they, but something something underground monster world child murder, something something divorced parents, something something killing video game characters is immoral, and you are not the player character
>or are you
It's as far from simple as you can get

>>724563773
Play more games

>>724563783
>it's a children's cartoon, the good guys are good, they fight the bad guys because they're bad, they win, the end
No, that's no story whatsoever. It's two kids hitting action figures together.

>You fall into a magical world filled with monsters. They want to kill you because they need your soul, you have to escape.
It's like calling the Wizard of Oz pretentious because it has more story than "BAD GUY KILL!"

>>724563842
Name 5 games with good writing and characters deeper than anything in Undertale.

There seems to be a common characteristic among the tale/rune base where it sounds like that they don't play a lot of games and seem to not even know about the games that inspired tale/rune in the first place.

>>724564112
>Name 5 games with good writing and characters deeper than anything in Undertale.
NTA but no fucking way you are asking this.

>>724564120
Which games are that? Cause I can promise you right now I've played more games than you.

>>724564194
I am. I want to see you hang yourself and I am handing you the rope. I'm not even saying they don't exist, I want to see what you would answer. You might even actually manage it, I doubt it, but it would be funny to watch you try.

>>724564218
>Disco Elysium
>E33
>Nier: Automata
>Omori
>Fallout: New Vegas
>TallTale walking dead season 1 and half of 2
>Deus Ex (2000 not the gay sequels)

Either you are a tasteless faggot who plays only one game by a tumblr tranny and claims themselves as le high game critic because of it or you are a disingenuous faggot. Either way genuinely kill yourself faggotron

>>724545183 (OP)
it was so cliche
text dumps at the end make me feel nothing

>>724564031
>No, that's no story whatsoever. It's two kids hitting action figures together.
That's a simple unpretentious story, that's the core that 90s Disney movie stories revolve around

>It's like calling the Wizard of Oz pretentious because it has more story than "BAD GUY KILL!"
The Wizard of Oz is a children's book with very simple aesopian morals, the good guys realize that strength/intelligence/courage/home was inside them all along and kill the ontologically evil witch

If Oz was written by Toby Dorothy would go through an identity crisis for killing the Witch because she'd realize she just wanted to retrieve her dead sister's ruby slippers that she graverobbed after killing her, and it'd turn out the Wizard was a different (non-binary) person all along

This might be one of my favorite tism fights I've seen in a while

>>724564641
>Disco Elysium
Will give you that one. It is actually pretensious though, but with enough of a sense of humor that it's easy to swallow.

>E33
Haven't played it.

>Nier: Automata
About the same, really. Helps that like Undertale it's short, thight, and atmospheric.

>Omori
Also about the same.

>New Vegas
Also generally better. Struggles with pacing though, but that's mostly the nature of the game.

>Telltale Walking Dead season 1 and half of 2
Complete melodrama trash. Far below Undertale.

>Deus Ex
Fairly solid writing, but the characters are generally pretty dull and the weak voice acting takes away from a lot of it. Would put it about equal or slightly below Undertale.

>>724564641
>Omori
Lol. NTA but Toby is literally friends with Omocat and both games inspired each other.

>>724564831
>that's the core that 90s Disney movie stories revolve around
No? The heroes don't fight the villains just because they are bad. In many cases they start off with the villains as friends.

>the good guys realize that strength/intelligence/courage/home was inside them all along and kill the ontologically evil witch
And the message of Undertale is that killing is bad. That's a very simple Aesop message as well.

>Dorothy would go through an identity crisis for killing the Witch because she'd realize she just wanted to retrieve her dead sister's ruby slippers that she graverobbed after killing her
No? Which character goes into a identity crisis in Undertale?

>and it'd turn out the Wizard was a different (non-binary) person all along
That literally happens in the Wizard of Oz, idiot. Damn, such massive subversion. Clearly a very pretentious plot.

>>724565086
>Desu sex has bad VA
Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>724565438
I can show you a entire montage of it on youtube.

It can be charming every now and then. But on average it's very poor.

>>724565376
>No? The heroes don't fight the villains just because they are bad. In many cases they start off with the villains as friends.
What does that have to do with anything? The villains are villains because they're bad and they do bad things because of it, they have no other hidden actually moral goals that are revealed as a twist to recontextualize the heroes' actions as bad

>And the message of Undertale is that killing is bad. That's a very simple Aesop message as well.
Not really

>No? Which character goes into a identity crisis in Undertale?
(You) the player, to this day players can't answer basic questions about Frisk

>That literally happens in the Wizard of Oz, idiot.
No you're thinking of the basic aesopian reveal that the Wizard of Oz is some dude behind a curtain, I'm talking about ANOTHER reveal that that guy isn't Oz either but rather that Oz is some other (non-binary) character we haven't met or heard about yet

>>724565795
>The villains are villains because they're bad and they do bad things because of it
Because the heroes don't fight the villains for being bad. Simba couldn't care less about Scar being evil, in fact he clearly seems to like the guy, and it's only when he kills her dad and takes over the kingdom that it becomes a problem. Jaffar and Aladdin really have no issues with each other until the story gets going and the two start fighting over the lamp. Ursula and Ariel make a deal with each other.

>they have no other hidden actually moral goals that are revealed as a twist to recontextualize the heroes' actions as bad
No? That literally happens several times.
>Trying to give the lamp to Jaffar.
>Making a deal with Ariel.
>Simon adopting a no worry mindset.

>Not really
Yes it is. How is it not?

>(You) the player,
No? I didn't. I finished the game, and called it a day. Realizing I'm neither Chara or Frisk. Aladin breaks the fourth wall at several points. Does that count as giving me the viewer a identity crisis?

>I'm talking about ANOTHER reveal that that guy isn't Oz either but rather that Oz is some other (non-binary) character we haven't met or heard about yet
What is the equivalent of that in Undertale?

>>724565569
You're gonna burn alright.

My issue was the incredible amounts of meta storytelling 4th wall breaking stuff. Its fun but that makes it feel self-indulgent and pretentious as shit and people are passing it off as genius. It also seems very shallow in its morality system. I've never played a video game that penalized you for making the moral choice the game doesn't agree with which most likely filtered so many despite how cool the characters are. I hope rune abandoned that shit because its so fucking pretentious and annoying especially when it is basically established that the monsters want to kill you and so of course you're going to kill them. Like wtf.

>>724547539
>fear & hunger
dialate.

>>724566365
> Its fun but that makes it feel self-indulgent and pretentious as shit and people are passing it off as genius.
People will pass off any old dreck as genius. People used to praise GTA 4 as good. At last Undertale knows how to pace itself. As for it being self-indulgent, it really isn't. It's used pretty sparingly until the genocide route. Which is the route you pick if you want that kind of stuff.

>I've never played a video game that penalized you for making the moral choice the game doesn't agree with
Have you played literally any video game? Because that shit happens all the time. Fallout, Bioshock, Star Wars, Infamous, Shin Megami Tensei, Fallout 3 literally every game with a morality system. At least Undertale has enough dignity to be relatively mild if you don't act like a slasher villain.

>>724566365
>When it is basically established that the monsters want to kill you and so of course you're going to kill them.
They not only do not want to kill you on average, since they don't realize you are human, what kind of warped logic is that?

>>724545294
Your gut intuition is not wrong because 97/100 things those types like is in fact gay and shit but undertale is actually good

>>724555368
Brother you just posted using the fucking 4chanx filename randomizer, you’re the biggest incel loser in this thread

>>724566305
>Because the heroes don't fight the villains for being bad
"Hero doesn't fight the evil villain until the evil villain shows their evil hand" is not a pretentious nor complex story anon

>No? That literally happens several times.
No recontextualizing takes place, the audience is aware of the heroes' intentions from the start

>Yes it is. How is it not?
If it was that simple then it wouldn't be up to the player to make a series of specific choices in order to see the moral, it also wouldn't reward you with more interesting boss fights and content for killing everyone

>No? I didn't. I finished the game, and called it a day. Realizing I'm neither Chara or Frisk.
You are not Frisk, yet you name Frisk, and the characters talk to (You) about things Frisk has done

>Aladin breaks the fourth wall at several points. Does that count as giving me the viewer a identity crisis?
Aladdin never tried to make it seem like you're Aladdin

>What is the equivalent of that in Undertale?
Chara, EXP, LV etc

>>724566305
>simba couldnt care less about scar being evil
>jaffar doesnt do anything evil with the lamp
>Ursula was totally not a double-dealing snake when she made that deal
You got high on that copium there, underboy.

>>724545183 (OP)
Tranny game with retarded friendcore and 3rd grader level of understanding of morality. Basically written for terminally online troons as that is as far as you would expect the quality of the writing to be out of that. The only thing note worthy is that the characters are fuckable

>>724567000
>"Hero doesn't fight the evil villain until the evil villain shows their evil hand"
They don't fight them because they are evil. Which is what you said.

>No recontextualizing takes place, the audience is aware of the heroes' intentions from the start
Same is true in Undertale. At worst the villains motivation changes.

>then it wouldn't be up to the player to make a series of specific choices in order to see the moral, it
It's called a video game and the morale is pretty obvious regardless of how you go through the game. Are you really being outbrained by a game for children?

>You are not Frisk, yet you name Frisk, and the characters talk to (You) about things Frisk has done
Pictured: The height of complexity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmzHrNVelL0

>Aladdin never tried to make it seem like you're Aladdin
Anon, when you play as a character you name do you think you are LITERALLY that character? I posted Dragon Quest 1 above, right? It's a major plot point that you are the descendant of the legendary hero. Are you the descendant of a legendary hero? Are you a guy? Do you wear armor?

>Chara
Chara IS the wizard. There is no third person in the room.

>>724567175
Yes? He literally likes the guy BECAUSE he's kind of a shifty charismatic fucker that is prone to getting him into trouble.

Aladdin really has no stake in the conflict outside of the vague that he loves the princess.

She honored her part of the deal perfectly.

>>724567469
*Vague feeling that he loves the princess.

>>724545183 (OP)
What turned /v/'s culture into posting ironic garbage like this? You're not funny.

>>724545294
Yeah these fags ruined it. You can play it but just avoid ever engaging with the ‘community,’ similar to Sonic in that sense.

>>724567000
>>724567351
You are both mentally ill, terminally online incel.

Anytime some subhuman faggot does the
>I’m going to take one single sentence
Then give LE EPIC RESPONSE like it’s some sort of e celeb EPIC debate CLAPBACK where they pause the video to speak dey troof it shows how utterly out of touch with reality you are. It’s not how you converse with humans. You respond to the entire point.

Kill yourselves already mother fucking god damn retards, or goon with each other in discord since you are the same phenotype of internet-poisoned loser

>>724568172
>Incel
Volcel.

Otherwise, yes.

>>724567693
2016 election.

>>724567469
Simba is a cub that learns and grows over the course of the movie, and once his childhood friend reaches him by accident, simba ends up coming back to make things right (for that very reason).
Jaffar was established as a villain from the start, he didnt even love jasmine, and ended up defeated because he was an evil dickhead.
Ursula knew things would go her way at expense of ariel and her family, aware that the mermaid was acting out of her dad's authority and protection.
All of the above involve characters that kids can inmediatly identify as evil, thus they'll be defeated by the heroes. That's as simple as it gets for a story. All those baddies start being baddies and die being baddies.
Also please follow the instructions on >>724568172

>>724568729
>Simba is a cub that learns and grows over the course of the movie, and once his childhood friend reaches him by accident, simba ends up coming back to make things right (for that very reason).
Sounds overcomplicated. Why isn't the hero fighting the villain from day 1?

>All of the above involve characters that kids can inmediatly identify as evil
And Flowey doesn't?

>All those baddies start being baddies and die being baddies.
Jaffar doesn't die.

>Also please follow the instructions
You start.

>>724567351
>They don't fight them because they are evil. Which is what you said.
They fight them because of the evil things they did (because they're evil)

>Same is true in Undertale. At worst the villains motivation changes.
Not true, there are multiple reveals in UT that aim to subvert and recontextualize the players' action, such as the "the monsters weren't trying to kill you" and EXP and LV and the save file fuckery and Chara etc, nothing of the sort happens in any classic Disney movie

>the morale is pretty obvious regardless of how you go through the game
Someone who had a blast playing genocide definitely won't get the "killing is bad" moral

>Anon, when you play as a character you name do you think you are LITERALLY that character? I posted Dragon Quest 1 above, right? It's a major plot point that you are the descendant of the legendary hero. Are you the descendant of a legendary hero? Are you a guy? Do you wear armor?
The common "self-insert character you name and play as is you" paradigm is exactly what UT tried to subvert and be philosophical about, it was a simple think taken for granted and the meta fuckery UT did with it makes it pretentious

>Chara IS the wizard. There is no third person in the room.
Frisk is the wizard, you are the man behind the curtain, Chara is the third non-binary person

>>724569305
>They fight them because of the evil things they did (because they're evil)
Backpedaling.

>Not true, there are multiple reveals in UT that aim to subvert and recontextualize the players' action
No? They aim to recontextualize the actions of the monsters.

>nothing of the sort happens in any classic Disney movie
It does.

>Someone who had a blast playing genocide definitely won't get the "killing is bad" moral
And somebody who enjoys raping women will think Gaston is the hero. And?

>The common "self-insert character you name and play as is you" paradigm is exactly what UT tried to subvert and be philosophical about
How is it philosophical about it?

>Frisk is the wizard, you are the man behind the curtain, Chara is the third non-binary person
Frisk is the wizard as they are. Chara is the guy behind the curtain.

>>724569305
>Not true, there are multiple reveals in UT that aim to subvert and recontextualize the players' action, such as the "the monsters weren't trying to kill you" and EXP and LV and the save file fuckery and Chara etc, nothing of the sort happens in any classic Disney movie
Hate this shit so much. Coffin of andy and leyley did this in chapter 3 regarding the parents and its done for cheap tricks or shit writing. Stick to one or multiple motivations and be consistent please

>>724570084
Monster motivation is incredibly consistent.

I legit think the people who say that the game "penalizes you" for making "the wrong moral choice" are midwits dude. How does the game penalize you? How is the game "anti" fight? The game takes itself seriously and this is one of the things that isn't meta about it. It's not like it criticizes every other rpg, it just shows characters reacting to the in-game consecuences of someone decided to eradicate everything. It's not saying "killing is wrong", hell even Sans has lines telling the player that he understands the concept of self defense. But it questions if someone with the ability to reset and try things out should be morally obligated to do the "right thing" or not. I feel like the only thing Undertale actually criticizes is the obsession some people have with 100% completing every game, turning them into chores that are no longer fun and completely ruining their inmersion, either by seeing everything it has to offer over and over or by spoiling yourself looking for answers online. I've seen it time and time again fucking autists that can't help themselves but dump 10000000 hours into a game because they HAVE to complete menial shitty tasks for the achievements. THAT shit is what Undertale criticizes

>>724568901
>Sounds overcomplicated
Whatever you copium addict

>>724545294
I will give you the QRD
>dev makes killing into a slogfest because "killing is evil"
>tumblr bone guy will make you have a "bad time" if you kill too much
>tumblr cat
>"true" final boss needs to be confronted with most gayest version of "the power of friendship" to be defeated
>obligatory "is anime real?" character
>stolen ideas, not only megalovania, but also from 2hu and other games
>>724551080
It's all a big alegory for loneliness, but there is a female pedo and a child murderer

>>724545183 (OP)
Shut the fuck up.

>>724545294
This is no way to judge a video game

This thread has been of surprising quality, since besides Undertale it's been about Scripture and its regional influences. I can understand not liking Undertale, but personally I don't get criticisms of it being "meta" or having twists. This seems to have come from games that attempted to be meta after Undertale (since it was a major reason for its popularity) and falling flat, but it's not a criticism of Undertale itself. Just because M. Night Shyamalan shoves a twist in every movie he makes doesn't make movies automatically bad for having twists (also The Sixth Sense was a good movie).
There are actual weakpoints to Undertale but it seems to me people come with preconceived notions and then make up reasons to justify those opinions. Some will (more rarely) play the game, don't feel the emotional resonance others do (which is fine) but then interpret that personal experience as an objective mark of morality. I have no idea how many anons who talk about Undertale are enjoyers of story/RPG games in the first place. It would be like asking someone who doesn't play strategy games what he thinks of WARNO.

Too bad it was all tainted by homosexuality. At least Deltarune is out front with its godless themes so people won't be fooled by the corrupt intentions of its maker so easily.

Sad!

>>724572806
>dev makes killing into a slogfest because "killing is evil"
It's less of a moral judgement and more of a representation of grinding in RPGs. It's less a slogfest than how you're expected to play a few RPGs normally. You can make it more of a slogfest by maximizing your XP through farming Glyde in Snowdin, but that feeds into the artistic exploration of why you as a player want to max out your player stats.
>tumblr bone guy will make you have a "bad time" if you kill too much
It's considered one of the pinnacle boss fights of all time, and not just by Undertale fans, and is an excellent way to cap off the genocide run.
>tumblr cat
???
Toby is a dog guy
>"true" final boss needs to be confronted with most gayest version of "the power of friendship" to be defeated
Ever played a JRPG? It's a surprisingly common trope. At least here it has thematic and logical sense.
>obligatory "is anime real?" character
Toby's a massive weeb, I won't deny that. It fell flat for me too.
>stolen ideas, not only megalovania, but also from 2hu and other games
Toby had composed Megalovania himself and used variations of it twice before. Yes, I know it was inspired by another track called Megalomania, and the people who made that don't mind one bit. The game was inspired by 2hu and intended to be a more introductory form of bullet hell, but it's otherwise very different.

>>724569834
>Backpedaling.
No it's very basic cause and effect

>No? They aim to recontextualize the actions of the monsters.
The point of which is to recontextualize the actions of the player as the ultimate goal

>It does.
It doesn't

>And somebody who enjoys raping women will think Gaston is the hero. And?
And Gaston gets killed for it, whereas you can get away with everything in the genocide route

>How is it philosophical about it?
By implying that you are a character in the story with the power to save and load, rather than a player with a meta overview of the game world, and calling on your responsibility to use that "power" to help others when it's usually understood it's a meta element that characters don't acknowledge

>Frisk is the wizard as they are. Chara is the guy behind the curtain.
No, there are definitely three guys, one of which is you

>>724545183 (OP)
Nah, the peak of the game was fighting Sans followed by Asgore breaking the mercy option. The game isn't bad, but I cringed when I saw PewDiePie forcing himself to cry at the end of the pacifist run.

>>724573743
It's exactly because I like stories in games and RPGs that I dislike Undertale which exists to deconstruct and subvert them

If you liked comedy movies then it would've been in your best interest to shun Judd Apatow's filmography and deconstructive philosophy since his painfully unfunny movies ended up killing comedy movies for 15+ years, and indeed Undertale ended up killing sincere expression in indie game writing because no one wanted to be the uncool guy who writes stories unironically and gets mocked by the cool eceleb game for being tropey and straightforward

>>724575617
>>Frisk is the wizard as they are. Chara is the guy behind the curtain.
>No, there are definitely three guys, one of which is you
NTA but it's debatable if the player is a separate entity from Frisk and Chara or if there's only them in universe. Stuff like Flowey talking to the player or Chara talking to the player can be applied to Chara and Frisk respectively.

>>724576135
>Judd Apatow
No idea who that is. I grew up on classic comedy like Abbott and Costello, Sid Caesar, the Three Stooges, Bob Hope, etc. I've also enjoyed some modern comedy, and I used to watch Jerma since I consider him a comedian. There's more at fault with modern movies than some crappy filmography.
>sincere expression
Undertale is nothing if not sincere. If it was insincere then befriending characters would reveal them to be dirtbags who betray you when it's convenient. Flowey is the one character written as insincere, who views everything as a game to be exploited, and he's completely miserable. It isn't Toby's fault that copycats completely missed the point and decided to make trash that is superficially similar. It's not the first time a piece of media has been misconstrued with dismal effects, but blaming the original is stupid. You cannot idiotproof an entire industry after your game releases.

>>724570231
Apparently not if it recontextualize and subverts their motives the moment you make a decision instead of the having an intended outcome based on player choice

>>724576987
>GamerGate tourists don't remember how hated furshit and tumblr were on /v/ because they literally hadn't arrived yet

>>724545183 (OP)
>>724545294
Opinions on /v/
Two different opinions on /v/
The pinnacle of dichotomy
Perfectly balanced... as all things should be.

>>724576916
>Undertale is nothing if not sincere
Undertale is a deeply insincere game, the characters themselves don't need to be insincere in order for the general writing of the game to be insincere, and a story whose primary objective is hidden meta commentary, subversion, and parody is insincere by default

>>724573912
>It's less of a moral judgement and more of a representation of grinding in RPGs.
It's heavily inferred, like "shoving it down your throat" that killing is evil not just by the dialogue, but Level Of ViolencE and EXecution Points
>It's less a slogfest than how you're expected to play a few RPGs normally.
It's an integral part of the gameplay loop on other games, therefore mostly fun like a solid 80 to 90% ratio to engage with for example: Mana Khemia has a specific character who's damage can be multiplied by the amount of enemies and the amount of attacks in the turn gauge, the enemies, including bosses could be both stun-locked so they get pushed further back on the turn gauge and forced to skip turns, etc.
>It's considered one of the pinnacle boss fights of all time, and not just by Undertale fans, and is an excellent way to cap off the genocide run.
Suck that I have good hand-eye coordination then, that and Nier Automata's last bullet hell were quite the disappointing parts after all the hype I've seen
>Ever played a JRPG? It's a surprisingly common trope. At least here it has thematic and logical sense.
To that overly done degree? no
>Toby is a dog guy
Temmie
>The game was inspired by 2hu and intended to be a more introductory form of bullet hell, but it's otherwise very different.
Asriel in his child form resembles Toroko from Cave Story who also have a situation related to flowers changing personality and form
Also pic related

>>724577214
>a story whose primary objective is hidden meta commentary, subversion, and parody is insincere by default
What's this primary objective? To me, the primary objective is this: to tell a fairy tale in a way that captures childlike whimsy while letting the choices of (you) the player have bearing in this fictional world, with the inhabitants of the world responding realistically to them. That's not hidden away but is revealed to you gradually over time no matter how you play.
I also disagree that meta commentary (the use of diegetics was still novel at the time and is a great use of the narrative medium of vidya), subversion (in the narrative sense), and (loving) parody are inherently insincere. If it was Neil Druckmann's style of "subverting player expectations" then sure, but Undertale is an actually good example of how to do it without losing sight of the primary objective listed above. Unfortunately it's also a game where spoilers are nearly fatal to enjoyment since it'll come across much differently being played blind rather than being discussed in a vacuum.

>>724578126
I can tell you were 13 when you first played it and missed all the intended themes and deconstructions/commentary

>>724577984
>It's heavily inferred, like "shoving it down your throat" that killing is evil not just by the dialogue, but Level Of ViolencE and EXecution Points
Yes but that's the logic of that world, and it makes sense. From the start of the game you're presented options of whether to kill or spare enemies, with only killing giving EXP. It's implied killing is more in line with what Flowey wants (an evil character) and against Toriel (a mostly good character) but RPG logic pushes you to want to get EXP. It's only later on that it's revealed killing has consequences to this functional society, that your strength is due to cultivating your darker side (which is somewhat realistic), and that for monsters to accept humans you have to beat the game at your weakest. It's still up to you to do whatever. After all, they're only fictional creatures.
>It's an integral part of the gameplay loop on other games, therefore mostly fun like a solid 80 to 90% ratio
This I agree with. Having played Undertale Yellow the fight system is much better and I enjoyed killing monsters.
>Suck that I have good hand-eye coordination then, that and Nier Automata's last bullet hell were quite the disappointing parts after all the hype I've seen
Comparably, Sans is harder than anything else in Undertale. Undertale itself is an easy game, probably too easy. This is why fan games tend to be much more challenging.
>To that overly done degree? no
Ehhhh. It's saccharine, I agree.
>Temmie
Dog/cat hybrid
>Toroko
True

>>724578473
I was 19 actually.
>inb4 "that makes it worse!"
You haven't explained your point. I caught most of the deconstructions of the RPG genre at the time. There are too many to list in a single post. My point is that the key mission of the game was fulfilled, and the deconstructions/commentary did not mar it but instead framed it to stand out the more. There are legitimate criticisms to be made of the game and I'm not hearing them from you.

>>724579379
I can see you're too emotionally attached to the game to the point nothing I can say will make you see or admit the negative aspects and influence it had