Thread 724657459

There's nothing wrong with yellow paint.

>>724657459 (OP)
Buy an ad, Yuffie spammer.

>Make your dogshit hyperrealistic artstyle
>Fill it with hyperrealistic rock textures
>Make some of those models climbable
>Throw yellow paint everywhere
Welcome to Unreal Engine 5

they wouldn't be doing this if they didn't have retards playing their game in playtesting and not being able to figure out where to go or what to do

As someone that spent 15 minutes figuring out how to exit the helicopter arena in Half-Life 2 I think interactables should be highlighted properly for players to see but yellow paint is the cheapest and most retarded way to do it.

>there is a need for that kind of thing
game journos already get their own early special copies don't they?

>>724657459 (OP)
this is the guy praising E33? Yikes.

>>724657459 (OP)
Even if you think the average player is retarded (they are), that doesn't mean you should just slap yellow paint everywhere and make your game look like complete shit. It's nothing but an excuse for poor level design.

>>724657459 (OP)
i mean yeah. when devs playtest their game and players get stuck with no idea what to do, it needs to be addressed. yellow paint is a sort of lazy hacky way to fix it but it is necessary, traditionally devs would put a bright light or a tower or something to more subtly direct the player while maintaining more of the illusion of agency/discovery

>>724658101
E33 has plot-relevant golden anchors to climb around.

>>724658345
then it makes sense

I'm sympathetic for the rationale for including it, but I think the need itself arises from bad design language. Consider a typical roguelike (okay, NetHack, since most aren't as expansive in this regard, but anyway): you have a hundred or so commands, and crucially, /you can use each command and it does what you would expect/. You can equip any item whatsoever as a weapon, it's just that most non-weapons aren't effective (but the touch of cockatrice petrifies, so its corpse is very effective... so long as you are wearing gloves). You can use any item trying to write on whatever surface, but a blunt instrument will produce smudgy text text when writing on dust in the ground, and hard surfaces don't scratch. You can tunnel downwards and drop to a lower dungeon level, or through a space that seems like a secret passage, and if correct, you'll crush through much more easily than if it was solid rock. You can dip items in liquids and this often does nothing, although items made from iron may rust, or you may wash items in water, but this command is also used for mixing potions. You can also try to eat whatever type of item, not just "foods", and if you've e.g. polymorphed into a rust monster or other creature that can eat metal, then you can 'e'at swords just fine, or perhaps metal rings, gaining their powers in the process.

The problem with "this sort of game" is that, unlike NetHack, rather than a distinct set of commands, and a distinct set of objects (items, directions, etc), and where you know every possible combination works because the DevTeam has thought of it, there's only a handful of commands mostly related for movement, and then catch-all context-sensitive "interact". And in any given scene there's tens, hundreds, even thousands, of objects, but you can only interact with a few, and not in discrete set of ways (pick up, kick, wield, wear, use, dip, read, drink, eat, etc), but only in the way developer scripted for that particular item.

>>724658813
It arises from player incompetence. They should simply learn.

>>724657459 (OP)
no toggle option, no mod to remove.

I will not buy your game.

Genuinely asking but why is SE so horny for bad press?
>Any press is good press

>>724658813
So the player can't use their wits to figure out the space of possibilities seemingly available to them because that's arbitrary. It makes sense for a developer to mark the .1% of actually possible interactions somehow, although I think yellow paint is a terrible way to do it: in vast majority of circumstances it doesn't make sense for it to exist in-universe, and it's presented as though it's "really there". Frankly, I'm more sympathetic to BamHam vision hilighting interactives.

>>724657459 (OP)
True

I think it's funny that players don't seem to realize that stuff like yellow paint is an insult to their own intelligence. They are being told that they re, in fact, too dumb to solve even the simplest things.

>>724658885
>Told everyone they lost the FF7 source code
>Told everyone to play Remake and ignore the original

>>724658867
Admittedly, "these games" also tend to be rather railroaded, lacking any novel ways to do things by interacting with the objects, and just rushing to the next setpiece. So it's usually not difficult to exhaust the possibilities for "what do I interact with to get to the next setpiece".

But I do think it's fundamentally a flaw in design language. If we think beyond roguelikes and start considering 3D games, say, World of Warcraft, it also has very clear design language in regards to "where you can move": traversable paths in steep slops tend to be differently coloured, terrain geometry is what it looks like on the screen, and once you grasp how the movement mechanics work (which you can figure out during the standard course of moving in the world and experimenting), following consistent rules you can wallwalk/walljump/etc. even to locations that aren't "obviously accessible".

In contrast, in "these games" terrain geometry isn't what it seems, they go for "high-def" look (I won't say "realistic, because e.g. yellow paint isn't realistic) instead of look that directly communicates game state (like whether a certain path is traversable by its colour), have chest-high walls, and among all possible locations where you might think your character can plausibly climb, only a developer-chosen subset is climbable, and it's not through any consistent mechanic, but scripted interaction, essentially a cutscene.

Yellow paint should be used to intentionally lead idiots into traps, like mimics or pitfalls.
Why the fuck would a dungeon be OSHA compliant?

>>724657459 (OP)
maybe make something less obvious that doesn't clash with the environment

>>724659231
>Told everyone they lost the source code to WoL so no WoL content
>Remaster is built upon WoL code
????

>>724657459 (OP)
It's a symptom of bad team coordination, bad communication and bad scheduling.
A lot of companies get into this trouble when populating a more high fidelity world with random, non-interactive assets that are basically identical to their interactive counterparts, especially if there's no communication between the various departments and the feedback they do get is garbage.
>>724659176
Like quest markers, yellow paint has nothing to do with the intelligence of the target audience, it's just a way for the development team to cut corners and avoid being caught with their pants down after skipping a few steps.

>>724657459 (OP)
I played part 1 for a few hours, and that game just put little blue squares on the ground in front of interactable terrain. It's also not great, but it's better than the paint.

>>724657459 (OP)
No wonder he likes E33, similar shit in their games

>>724657459 (OP)
>but reckons 'there is definitely a need for that kind of thing'
People who are -THAT- retarded should not be catered to.
With movies and books people accept that absolute retards might not understand everything. Why the fuck is that not acceptable for videogames?

How did it come to this?

>>724658871
>no mod to remove
https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy7rebirth/mods/92

>>724658813
>>724659683
Agree, it's an issue of design language and particularly an issue of art assets eclipsing level composition in development priority. Competent devs like Valve and Nintendo will leverage all kinds of tricks to guide the player towards the intended solution and even though not every asset is interactable, they generally try to ensure that everything that looks like it has a game purpose actually does. What clearly happened here is that Square designed all these environments without considering design language and when playtesting revealed that players didn't know where to go, they hastily came up with a last minute cheat solution.

>>724657601
>>Make your dogshit hyperrealistic artstyle
>>Fill it with hyperrealistic rock textures
>>Make some of those models climbable
>>Throw yellow paint everywhere
For real though. How do developers even end up in this kind of logical trap?
If realistic textures end up being realistic to the point losing clarity to a degree that the textures """""need""""" yellow paint splashed all over them, then how the fuck are the textures even realistic anymore?
In your strive for realism you've missed realism. So why not just aim for less realistic textures to begin with, that convey more clarity, without something as lame as yellow paint or whatever other equivalent you might think of?

>>724657459 (OP)
You started playing video games in 2020 didn't you?

>>724657459 (OP)
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it, if it's an optional feature for disabled people.

>>724660851
Developers can easily use different textures and lighting to denote what is an intended path and what can be interacted with
Yellow paint on rocks is stupid, but stupid people can generally grasp patterns like mossy rock faces being interactible, a worn grassy path being the intended route instead of the surrounding lush green.

>>724657459 (OP)
the only moment FF7r uses yellow paint is in the beginning and thats only because FF7 remake didnt have climbing mechanics so its a small way to make you know that "yes, climbing exists".

>>724660851
The problem is that designers are lazy as fuck, instead of using a fitting but still visually different texture for interactible objects in the level they opt out for paint because that solution DOESN'T fit visually, as casuals and zoomers lack the ability to figure shit on their own and need their hand held in an comically explicit manner all the time. If not for yellow paint, you'd see /v/ complaining about the level design being too obscure and lacking guideposts and that it doesn't respect your time because it doesn't hand you the answer straight away.

>>724657787
>they wouldn't be doing this if they didn't have retards playing their game in playtesting and not being able to figure out where to go or what to do
Just like the original.

Fromsoft puts a little lantern in front of ladders on the climbable portion, and point lights at points of interest.
I do think its a symptom of a massively bloated dev team where people are clueless on what goes where and what levels are supposed to look like so they just throw them everywhere, but also, certain publishers fucking demand this shit. Ninja Gaiden 4 being the most recent, 99% sure microshit was like "you MUST add accessibility options for all the brain damaged retards that are our gamepass users!"

We need to find out what company gave the design talk that taught people that signposting with yellow paint was a good solution.

>>724657459 (OP)
Maybe they should do level designs better.

>>724661503
Why do you come here to post blatant lies about such a popular game.
What is the point exactly.

>>724657459 (OP)
You didn't gatekeep video games, so now they have to be made for literally retarded NPCs.

>>724659176
idk how retarded you'd have to be to decide to be mad that there's directions in a game, and I'd rather not find out. kys

>>724662054
Name 3 games with good level design.

>>724657459 (OP)
its crazy how sutle uncharted was with this yellow shit

>>724657459 (OP)
Who started this completely idiotic trend? The REmakes? I can't for the life of me understand why this utter immersion breaking nonsense caught on...

>>724664048
Rise and Shadow of the Tomb Raider had white paint on the rocks you could climb on but even then you could turn that shit off in the difficulty tweaks.
Doom 2016 had green lights on the edge of every platform so you could see where to go
Straight up yellow paint was RE2make

>>724657459 (OP)
These environmental hints are important but you can solve that more elegant and less on the nose. Subtle differences in light, lamps at the right spots, shadows covering the bad path, plants and erosion highlighting cliffs to climb on. If you resort to yellow paint you solve the problem but you do it in the laziest and cheapest way possible.

>>724657459 (OP)
How did it get to this point /v/?

Atleast give the option to remove it

I can understand yellow paint or some type of guide in an open world game but some of these extremely linear games have it like Ninja Gaiden 4 or the Resident Evil remakes and it makes zero sense

I guess it's easier to literally point to where the player goes as opposed to using neat design to inform the player of where they need to go.

>>724664456
I'm not opposed to giving the player signals on what you can and can't interact with, especially when it comes to trial and error platforming, so the green light in doom is alright. Even white paint can be ok if used sparingly etc etc. But the yellow paint is horrible, and the fact that you can almost NEVER turn it off makes it even worse. It's always jarring. Whenever I see it, I just hear the devs screaming in my ear "HEY HEY!!! OVER HERE, IDIOT!! GO HERE!! GO HERE!!". Devs NEED to learn level design.

>>724657459 (OP)
That shit is honestly insulting, it's like the developers are telling the player "you're too stupid to find these objects and realize they're climbable, so here's a visual cue". Thanks for calling me stupid, that will for certain make me buy your game, you fucking imbecile. By the way, Rebirth is a very charming game with lots of good ideas, but the amount of "modern design" like the shit in the OP, towers that reveals every secret, barebones combat on normal mode, etc completely ruined it for me.

>>724657459 (OP)
>shit director of shit game defends shit mechanic for retards
Cool

Graphics have advanced to the point where they now fail at their most fundamental task - the visual representation of the game world.

>devs use laziest possible solution for signposting because that's what other devs are doing
>"they had no choice, players are retarded, there's no better solution to this problem"

>>724657459 (OP)
Bullshit, if there was nothing wrong with it journos wouldn't have to make an article running defense that faggots like you wouldn't feel the need to repost it.

>>724660851
Artists make the assets first and then the game designers have to effectively figure out the complications that this invokes. When everything is trying to look realistic, you get the problem that is needing to bullshit justifications for how it can be traversed. So the game designers want to make a level, realize this shit's happened, and then have to go tell artists to direct players in a specific way, but they can't compromise on the realistic assets, so here's a paint marker, here's a blood trail, here's etc. No need for extra models, you just splash some color contrast on and call it a day, budget gets saved, players know where to go.

>Rock wall handholds
Just make them much lighter gray, maybe put some moss/grass growing on them
>Ladder
Just have the whole ladder be yellow retard

That's why I mostly play indie games nowadays. Take a game like, say, Noita or Rain World, you're literally just dropped into the map with the bare minimum of information and it's up to you to figure out stuff on your own.

>>724665406
>you're too stupid to find these objects and realize they're climbable, so here's a visual cue
The problem lies with the 100 other similar objects that aren't climbable.

>>724665436
>of shit game

>>724657459 (OP)
I will murder you

>>724666093
The characters look so out of place with that environment it's like they are a bunch of clowns.

>>724666093
>journalist scores
lol

>>724657459 (OP)
The problem isn't developers needing to guide player attention towards interactable environement features, the problem is choosing to do it diagetically and then using extremely non-diagetic yellow fucking paint instead of, you know, some scuff marks on the rocks like several other games do. Take Sekiro, for example. All the places where you can hang from or sidle along a wall have diagetic visual indicators to point them out to players but instead of using something that doesn't fit the environment and would ruin the entire point of doing it diagetically, like yellow fucking paint, they just use a bunch of wear and tear scuff/scratch marks. Pic related.

TL:DR Yellow paint is retarded.

>>724664041
Uncharted had fucking yellow pipes, i remember my friend and i riffing about that, and how last of us always had a dumpster or ladder or plank you had to move every time.

>>724657459 (OP)
Why do they think this is necessary at all? Even within that image, the path upward is clear. The climbable rocks stick out, have flat surfaces and are differently textured to the flat wall. This has been enough for gamers to navigate for decades now. Add some UI button prompts and its fool-proof. Even present day AAA slop does it without issue, Star Wars Outlaws and Horizon do it with no issue, to name a couple I've played recently. So why do some specific devs feel it's necessary to add yellow paint and arrows onto the wall when in other games the exact same setup would work just fine without the paint?

>>724667074
I really like when it's done this way, I know it isn't the intended purpose but it does add some visual storytelling. It gives me the feeling that other warriors have trodden this path before and probably most of them have failed and died.

>Start ninja gaiden 4
>Yellow paint everywhere in a fucking linear hallway

Its an art issue, and the opposite of yellow paint is retarded shit like having to hump every part of the environment searching for something that moves, or where you get bombarded by invisible barriers blocking places that look like you should be able to travel through or jump on.

>>724657459 (OP)
Just give me the option to turn if off completely.

>>724665913
The obscure hidden exits and breakable walls in Silksong gives me hope for the medium still.
But at the same time it's grim to realize that it's far, far from the norm.

But yeah, you can still find real videogames among indies.

>>724658871
>no mod to remove.
>Giving developers money for doing a shit job because someone else fixed it.

>>724659176
I dropped nuGoW when I entered an area and an NPC immediately told me the solution to a puzzle in that area. That shit is even more cancerous than yellow paint.

>>724666184
Not an argument.

>>724657459 (OP)
if I saw a ladder caked with yellow paint the last thing I would want to do is climb up it unless I was being chased or something prompted me to climb it, and if I saw ledges with yellow paint I'd wonder who the fuck took time out of their life to paint them, and how they managed to do it.

people aren't that stupid, I refuse to believe it.

>>724657459 (OP)
Just make it togglable

>>724660814
>when playtesting revealed that players didn't know where to go, they hastily came up with a last minute cheat solution
The worst part is that this is most probably what happened, they 100% tested the game in like the three or four months prior to release when they have no leverage to make any changes, and since they're so incompetent to think of any guiding clues besides map pointers and yellow paint, they just slap some paint everywhere and shit's done.
Just look at the goddamned uncharted games, zero yellow paint in any part of the game, yet the game has a clue in every single scene as to where you should go.

>>724675434
In their endless search for a larger market share, these assholes don't look for playtesters who know how to play video games, instead, they actively recruit non-gamers to playtest their games, that's why modern AAA gaming is like this. They dumb shit down for the literal lowest common denominator: people who don't even play video games in the first place.

>>724667074
>The problem isn't developers needing to guide player attention towards interactable environement features, the problem is choosing to do it diagetically and then using extremely non-diagetic yellow fucking paint instead of, you know, some scuff marks on the rocks like several other games do.
Nah. Games need to be more mechanic driven with consistent rules and interactions. If there's a ledge, you can grab it.