Thread 724667303

>>724667303 (OP)
Add a timer to even the most basic mission and it will bring people to their knees.

Seeing people cry endlessly because the new Witcher-like vampire game has a time limit to the plot is so pathetic. It's a complete dealbreaker to the point where they write off a game they were excited for. (The game doesn't actually continually progress, every time you do a quest the timer moves forward half a day or something)

>>724667303 (OP)
Then why are extraction shooters and battle royales so popular?

>>724667564
what gaem?
>>724667680
thats different. It restarts the dopamine cycle. Theyre addicts

>>724667303 (OP)
Any yet BRs were extremely popular. Curious.

I really didn't like it in Fallout 1, but it was done really poorly. It didn't make the time limit clear, and the game just ended if the vault died out. Also, it didn't really lend itself to a timed plot. You're dropped into a brand new world where you don't know a thing, it doesn't make sense to rush out to complete the main quest.

>>724667303 (OP)
I don't remember the last non-sports game I played that had a time limit besides Dead Rising.

>>724667745
Blood of the Dawnwalker, made by ex-CDPR employees. I think you're supposed to save your family within a few days or weeks, but the game continues if you fail to save them. When they announced this aspect, the backlash was insane.

Over the years I learned a few things that greatly increased my enjoyment of games:
1- not caring about limited itens, just use that elixir, you won't NEED it later, it's fine
2- not caring about my units too much in tactics/strategy games, often if you are too afraid of getting your units hurt, you'll lose the game and end up losing all your units, learn to sacrifice units (or health) as part of your strategy
3- time is just another limited resource to manage and it can be fun to optimize your gameplay, unless the game is really badly designed, you WILL have more than enough, most devs will give you more than necessary

>>724667961
Sounds kino.
Makes you care about the plot.

>>724667828
it was worse on release and in unpatched versions, with an additional invisible "Master's invasion" timer that will literally kill all NPCs at selected towns and settlements every 20-30 days ending in your vault being discovered when the timer hit zero.

>>724667961
it will probably end up where an in-game week is like 500 hours of real play time and it's nearly impossible to fail

>series removes time limits and it goes to shit
Dead rising and atelier

>>724668331
I already said, the day partly passes when you do a quest. You can dick around as much as you want without the time progressing

>gamers develop an optimal strategy in Xcom where you move a few steps at a time in a conga line while overwatching every turn
>devs realize gamers will intentionally stop having fun if it means doing better in the game
>they make a sequel with time limits to encourage more chaotic fighting, desperate moves and last second heroics
>gamers cry and shit their diapers, demanding that they remove the timers

>>724668206
"it sucks that you have to rewind time in Majora's Mask"

>>724668206
The mark of the supreme midwit is the dismissal of the time limit's importance to DR's game design

there's no excuse for time limits, i should be able to spent as long as i want in a single area before continuing whenever I want

>>724667745
so do gamers hate timers or get addicted to them? You're being very confusing

>>724669032
Get a job and move out already Daryl

>>724667303 (OP)
see also
>5 miles between savepoints
>respawning enemies
>escort mission
>unskippable cutscenes
>weapon durability
>unfitting stealth section
>hp sponges
>unfitting platforming section
None of these actually have to be bad, but devs can't hold themselves back from being abusive with them. And so once you see them in a game you know the dev has a confirmed track record of poor decision making and you should play something else.

>>724667828
>>724668317
god forbid the world isnt just a theme park/all-you-can-eat buffet

>boss battle with infinitely respawning minions and never respawning ammo

YEEEEEPP *Settings - Difficulty - Easy*

>>724667303 (OP)
I love timers,they make games 100x times better
ARCADE

>>724667303 (OP)
that is also gamers when the game has any sort of challenge

usually a bad sign.

>majora's Mask has a doom timer and timed missions and this is a good thing
>xcom 2 has a doom timer and timed missions and this is a bad thing

>>724668238
>Makes you care
evidently not

Gamers want the feeling of overcoming challlenges, but not actual challenge that can filter them, a time limit is a hard measure of performance, you can't "trial and error and get luck with the boss pattern" you way to victory, you actually have to get good and win within the conditions set by the game and there's no room for arguments.

>>724668961
>Play majoora's mask
>Explore the world
>Get halfway through first dungeon
>Timer goes off
And that's when I quit
>B-b-b-but later on you get time manipulation!
Then don't bother introducing it in the first place, saving the world is motivation enough already

I like urgency if it's done well. Sometimes it's to make time management a part of the gameplay, or make you feel like the world doesn't just revolve around you and your leisurely pace. But if it's too vague then I don't like it. When I played Kingdom Come Deliverance I would look up which missions had an actual hidden time limit. Most missions gave you all the time in the world, but others would activate a timer as soon as you unlocked it. It wasn't clear at all when you would be punished for dallying.

>>724667303 (OP)
>Beat XCOM 2
>Dreaded the timers before playing
>Literally never failed a mission because of them and found they pretty much just limited degenerate, boring strategies by forcing you to keep moving
>See niggas on /v/ still complaining about them and even recommending people use the option to double them

>>724669889
I generally don't like time limits in vidya, but in MM it's unironically a case of "git gud."

>>724667303 (OP)
Thankfully guides are a thing.

>>724669889
You are genuinely a moron and truly terrible at video games, Holy shit.

> Majora's Mask whiner
> doesn't realize there's inverse song of time
You're welcome, now shut up and enjoy the game.

>>724669152
Anon doesn't explain it well.
Urgency is usually enjoyed by gamers when it comes in short outbursts. That's true even if those outbursts are repeated and the main point of the game (as in many multiplayer games like say planting/defusing bombs in counter strike).
What is almost universally disliked is large time limits (over a playthrough or significant parts of it).
Basically most people enjoy time limits on the 1-5 minute marks (maximum) for specific objectives with limited number of intermediate steps, but dislike "complete the first half of the main quest of this RPG within 10 hours". This is true even when the average shitter would complete it in 6 hours.
Shorter term and longer term urgencies are very different feelings.

>>724667303 (OP)
But people love Persona?

>>724667303 (OP)
>firaxis DEI hires can't do competent enemy AI
>just put in a time limit to force the player to run into one of our RNG enemy pods that don't exist before you trigger them

Timers are fun and I'm done pretending they are not.
Kingmaker was a mediocre game but being forced to do things in a timely manner made it actually feel like the main qeust was important. I still don't understand how peeps ran out of time though, I had more then enough time to explore everything, complete side quests and do the main quest.

>>724667680
Because the "timer" in battle royale games basically boils down to the playing area shrinking. It serves less as a means of creating a sense of racing against the clock and more of a means of keeping the action going as more and more players are killed off. Without it, you'd constant have situations where there's like 2-4 players left and they'd just be bumblefucking their way around a massive map just trying to find someone to kill. Most matches would probably just end up with two guys on opposite sides of the map trying to find each other until one of them finally just gives up and calls it quits.

>>724669889
you get "time manipulation" long before you ever enter the first dungeon
just admit that you've never played the game, tranny

>>724667303 (OP)
Why the fuck would anyone want a time limit?

>>724667303 (OP)
what are you talking about. the most played games in the world all have timers. i think i had to go to the 12th most currently active game to find one that isnt timed

is this guy looking at like, the ouya game list or something weird

>>724667303 (OP)
fuck XCOM2
sex XCOM EU/EW
simple as

>>724673061
>What is almost universally disliked is large time limits (over a playthrough or significant parts of it).
like extraction shooters

>>724668532
If you think the newer Dead Risings suck because they lack time limits i dont know what to tell you except ask you if you are also a scatophilic

>>724667303 (OP)
I don't hate it but i prefer not to have it.

>>724674646
It was enough reason for me to not touch dead rising 4 yes

>>724668090
>2- not caring about my units too much in tactics/strategy games, often if you are too afraid of getting your units hurt, you'll lose the game and end up losing all your units, learn to sacrifice units (or health) as part of your strategy

TA/Supcom/BAR chads don't know this feeling because there are so many units exploding every second that they just become another resource to burn.

>>724667303 (OP)
Every game has an ultimate time limit
Your lifespan.
Nigga

>>724668914
>>they make a sequel with time limits to encourage more chaotic fighting, desperate moves and last second heroics
You already had time limits in XCOM in the bomb missions, they were good but they were only good because they were hard BUT they were also a rare mission type
You also had the zombie missions which didnt have a timer but if you waited too long the mission would become impossible to complete because of the amount of zombies and chrysalids
Contrast to XCOM2 when every basic ass mission has a time limit the magic is gone, its no longer a unique situation.

People who are good will ALWAYS find the cracks from a game and make it unfun to beat it, punishing every other player that didnt move their units or camp overwatch all the time is retarded
There were other ways of fixing the issue but that would require having an actually good AI so instead they just did the easiest "fix" for the "problem"

>>724674748
Don't drag Ryza into this, weirdo

>>724674757
Dont dodge the second question

>>724675052
No

>>724667303 (OP)
>>gamers when the game has any sort of time limit or urgency
Kek. This is me and I ain't even mad. I blame the trauma of:
http://youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=9Yw5jkAHgME&list=RD9Yw5jkAHgME&start_radio=1
>>724669252
>>escort mission
My first and only time throwing my controller in a fit of blind rage was the escort mission that took place in the sewers of Jak II. Made 12 year old me lose his shit.

>>724667303 (OP)
I take my time in games, I don't like feeling rushed. It's why I could never get into dead rising.

>>724674495
Those are still comsidered short bursts, a match of DotA is likely to be longer

>>724667303 (OP)
>people don't want to waste their time? wtf???
10 iq post

>>724673519
I think they might have made it more forgiving in some patch but I was amazed how lenient the timer was in the first act after all the bitching I heard. Scoured the entire map and still finished fast enough to get the bonus reward for having a month spare.

This year during my third Majora's Mask playthrough is the first time I've felt really at peace. I finally felt comfortable being uncomfortable. I was able to appreciate the quests and the systems without thinking 'but what about the world after I reset'

>>724674993
she's a great example given how mad atelierfans were when her game didn't have deadlines

DR and MM having time limits was brilliant design that elevated those games, but they arent real time limits anyway.
I only really hated the timer in games like Castlevania since it seemed like a way to punish you for playing the game properly but that was the nature of Nintendo hard design.

>>724667303 (OP)
Casual ass nigga, sense of urgency in games is big fun
>>724674989
That's like complaining that every mission has enemies.
Yes, timers are a solution to a problem that they themselves created (pod activation).
But the game is trivial without that solution.

>>724667680
In fortnite you don't GAME OVER as soon as the timer hits 0. You GAME OVER when the storm deals 100 damage to you (assuming you don't have heals).

>>724675348
The only timer that really hurts in MM is the Kafei quest.

>>724674495
>>724675175
You also can generally reach extraction within a few minutes so it's not really urgent until then, there's no real long term planning required, and there's no big lasting consequences even if you fuck up. You get the same result as if you lost a fight. People dread longterm timers, even though they're rarely a real problem at all, because they don't want to miss out on content or have hours upon hours of progress lost. Especially in a single player game that's inherently always less replayable than an MP game and will require you to repeat the same encounters.

>>724667564
>80% of witcher playerbase likes taking it slow, minding their own business, taking on contracts and side quests as they please, often clearing out their entire questlog
>make a game about pick-and-choosing and many repeat playthroughs, except also overly cinematic UE5 shit so you know for a fact many of these branches will be shallow or end up at the same situation and that at least 50% of a playthrough will be dialogue/cinematics or chorey shit
i dont know what else they were expecting. if it was a large-budget independant dev making a much more action-ey looking game that doesnt blatantly look like its combat is completely held back by ue5 graphics and fancy animation/effects requirements i would have more faith in it

>>724675812
Oh, there's a lot of timers that hurt MM, but I felt fine waiting. Maybe that's what you're saying. I still don't like the concept of leaving these lands at unease. That's what still separates it from the other do-good Zelda games. Just a personal feeling, not a great game design discussion or anything

>>724667303 (OP)
nigger, no one cares about timers in shooters or RTS games or any other type of game that's expected to be fast paced. It's just that no one wants that shit in stuff like RPGs where most of the content comes from dicking around, developing your character and saving cats stuck in a tree. A sense of urgency is totally at odds with exploring and doing side quests

>>724675175
>>724675846
right, okay. but op said "any type of timer", and those are timers.

so i guess we are agreeing op is wrong and weve shifted to "well only some timers are bad, and almost every single game popular has timers deemed acceptable", which is okay, ill entertain that conversation

>>724675705
>But the game is trivial without that solution.
Because they didnt even try other solutions
There wasnt ever an issue for me in EU/EW that the game didnt feel hard enough or thrilling
The problem was in XCOM2 when every fucking basic ass mission pretended to be some major climax like the base invasion missions, it just feels forced and bad.

I want to set up properly, scout the map (thats what the stealth was supposed to be for) figure out a strategy and beat an enemy against overwhelming odds, thats what the whole urban gorilla shit fantasy was about

I have no problem against timed missions, but they should have been limited missions where you actually are fighting for your life or taking risks to get extra pay, not every fucking basic ass mission

You dont have to fix what wasnt broken in the first place (the AI and fixed patrols was)
Overwatch spam was only for the hardest difficulty and wasnt even that broken, its unreliable as shit and you only used it to try to even the odds as much as possible since the game is all about risk management.
The actual problem both the games had and wasnt adressed was the explosives spam

>>724674874
Bad design if you ask me.

>>724668961
Majora's Mask was fine all you had to do was reset time before making an attempted at a dungeon and to take on sidequests when doing a dungeon run and you were fine.

>>724667303 (OP)
I got nothing against timers but I have to be in the mood for that shit, it's like action games. They're not a veg on the couch and relax game. Also some of them just suck like Lost Planet.

>>724676826
You're performing terroristic attacks in cities. Why wouldn't there be a time limit until extraction isn't possible?

>>724676960
Youre in disguise, the enemies can already spot you if they walk too close
Besides even there, they could have made stealth a bigger deal with units actually focused on it and units that counter your stealth (surveillance drones)
The only reason timers were added was balancing reasons which i disagree with, not for reasons that it somehow makes sense in universe
Terrorists plan their attacks ahead of time, at location, even rehearsing their shit, you wanna do that instead because it would make sense?

>ranking my performance for missions/battles
I can't stand this shit. My autism won't let me move on until I have the best rank

>>724677247
You're an idiot. Noone even cares if you've finished the game or not just kidding everyon knows your rank noob and we're all laughing HAHAHAHHA

>>724667303 (OP)
I'm the opposite. My favourite part of Pikmin 3 are the treasure missions with strict time limits.

>>724677502
I loved the Dandori parts of Pikmin 4, so I'm with you there. Sometimes you need someone to kick you in the ass to have fun

>>724669281
retard

>>724675997
>NOOOO THERE CAN'T BE A TICKING BOMB ELEMENT TO THE STORY
>EVERY RPG NEEDS TO BE A WHOLESOME SANDBOX WITHOUT ANY TENSION
Fuck off little baby

>>724669882
Or you could just save scum. Pikmin players do that all the time, especially if they want to go with as few deaths as possible.