Thread 724762824

Which Total War game is the worst?

>>724762824 (OP)
Empire Total War. More like total trash. Never understood faggots who enjoy that shit.

>>724762945
Those square fort battles were pure ass

>>724762824 (OP)
warhammer I. killed the franchise by alienating the old fanbase and replacing us with moba shitters

>>724762824 (OP)
Rome 2, even to this day, and no you CA asstonguing faggots they did not "engooden" it. Not only is Rome 2 irredeemable ass to play, every subsequent TW game has been a light remix of it with the bare minimum changed under the hood.

>>724762824 (OP)
Warhammer 3

Honestly? Shogun 2.
You just spam the cheapest unit, Yari Ashigaru. It's glazed by the /vst/ards because they're too stupid to play TW games with build diversity like Warhammer.

>>724762824 (OP)
I've been with the series since the start.
The main series games that got a significant amount of hate when they released were Empire, Rome 2, and Warhammer.
Empire and Rome 2 because they were broken pieces of shit, and Warhammer because it divided the fanbase.

>>724762824 (OP)
How many times do we have to go through this.
What i like is best and good and what you like is bad and garbage.

>>724762824 (OP)
Shogun (1), Rome or Napoleon I think, but a lot of this is just purely on them being old and not figured out. Like I could say either Pharaoh or Warhammer for the memes but I feel confident in saying that Pharaoh is more functional and complete than these

>older brother is a huge total war fan
>as in our first non-office work PC not running low requirement stuff like Age of Empires or Populous was us saving up solely so he could play Medieval 2
>my first and only attempt at modding was at making an unmounted version of a unit in m2
>skip to two decades later he's completely disillusioned with the series ever since Rome 2 and he desperately wants a good mod for M2/Shogun2/Atilla that makes the AI not shit and he hates Total Wawa with a passion because it's too streamlined
>zero good clones on the market
>CA's probably going to die soon
bros...

Thrones of Britannia or whatever it was called.

>>724763341
Only correct answer. CA died with Rome 2.

>>724762824 (OP)
Medieval 2

>>724764913
>Got Warhammer 3 before Rome, Shogun, or Medieval 3

>>724765128
I more mad that we finally got ROT3K and they dropped the ball hard before abandoning it without proper support

I think is Rome2.
Because Athilla is a Rome2 2

>>724763650
>>724765125
(You)

Empire must be that bad because people don't even remember it since Napoleon came out after it.

>>724762824 (OP)
I genuinely cant handle the city/fort battles of games before attila. I started with medieval 1 btw, and played probably 1k hours of 2. Way back in the day, i tried eplaying them and i just cant anymore, i hate the city battles

>>724762945
setting, Empire had plenty of good ideas but it was too bugged and got zero polish

>>724764658
>Shogun (1), Rome
Shogun 1 is probably best TW wargame, its simple and well designed, Rome 1 is probably one of the most fun to play even if not so great otherwise

>>724762824 (OP)
Sadly Empire. It was the sacrificial lamb for the new engine, but I also think the game itself had problems. Game also cracked open the door for DLC.

>>724762824 (OP)
Rome 2, every game design descision in it sucked and i hate how every single of their games since was just a mod for that dogshit entry
Everything wrong with warhammer is the result of it being a continuation of rome 2 game design phisosophy, it would have been a phenomenal game was it made more akin to more refined version of medieval 2

>>724767214
at least muskets work like muskets unlike in certain other game...

>>724767282
>agents
>general only armies
>level up system
>region system
>hp pools
what else?

>>724762824 (OP)
Last game i ever preordered

>>724763341
>>724765096
Rome 2 stands out not only because it was a fucked release but because EVERYONE'S eyes were on it. I think Empire was worse, but then Total War was not a mainstream thing yet.

>>724762824 (OP)
It is quantifiably Rome 2. Say whatever you want about Empire but at least it has the excuse of the engine still being new at that point. Then they got somewhat better with Shogun 2. And then clearly some massive brain drain after that point when it came to shitting out Rome 2 and its massive backwards step in the technical side of things. Pile on that being slow to fix anything, the shitty DLCs, and choosing to die on the hill of adding women generals and doubling down on it. Absolute clusterfuck that they never really unfucked.

A better question is what's the worst DLC?

>>724767282
>>724767526
Is Rome 2 better or worse than Saga Troy

>>724767369
it's a bit of a niche thing, but since rome 2 and onwards ranged weapons weren't working right at all, speed, arcs, and the way they aim, reload times, all wrong and fucked up, its like CA wanted to bring the game closer to more classical rts like starcraft with these changes, for some fucking reason.
it's especially obivious with warhammer's firearms whem comparing with previous games.
and new damage system works worse with them too.

>>724767562
3K Reign of Blood

>>724767562
There's a lot to choose from...

>>724767675
both are shit, what would be better for you depends on what tone and setting you prefer

>>724767562
This is like a opposite Sophie's choice. I can't pick just one.

I like Rome 2, probs my favorite. Play it with DeI and change army size to 25-30.

>>724762824 (OP)
They are mostly the same gameplay wise, so choose the aesthetics/time periods you like.

>>724762824 (OP)
unironically probably warhammer 3

>>724771590
Because of the bugs, or some other reason that makes it a failure?

I liked playing as Carthage even tho I sucked at the game.

>>724762824 (OP)
Empire is probably the only one I cant revisit even with mods. Rome 2 has divide et impera. The only other game in the series I've played and disliked was Attila because I've had performance issues with it on every build I've used. The campaign map even stuttered hard on my 4070 with a 7800 x3d or some shit, I forgot the cpu specs. As far as best that's probably medieval 2 for me with SSHIP or third age DAC. I also enjoyed Troy's mythos campaign more tha I expected, but I'd give 2nd and 3rd to shogun 2 and 3 kingdoms. Warhammer is a good series but modern CA is horrible with bugs and fucks it as soon as they fix something else.

>>724762824 (OP)
Empire.

Empire
where all the shitshow began

>>724762824 (OP)
Warhammer 3

>>724771637
not him but battles are not fun and after early you just AR everything

>>724771716
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XQU8k8XVAA
> Last night, the crying of the fanboys kept me awake...and I had a terrible vision. I saw the fall of our franchise: low budget remasters under a harsh sun... Historical Total War, gone! Why would CA send such a vision? They are not cruel; they have watched over us. We have had victories aplenty in game awards. Our community sail to all corners of the forums. Yet even now, I fear. I cannot help it. We are the envy of mobile gamers. They tell terrible lies about us. They do not understand, so they lie. But the Warhammer fanboys, they are the masters of falsehood. New Historical Total War will come, I am sure of it. So. I will have no more false visions...and I think the fanboys will be quiet tonight.

>>724762824 (OP)
Empire by a fucking lot

I would say Empire and Rome2 but for entirely different reasons: I think Empire sucks because battles on the field sucks (every battle ends up playing the same, too few cities and not enough events and development) but overall the campaign is fun, while Rome 2 has an horrible campaign that is not fun to play at all, but really fun battles and every factions plays differently, no wonder I have way more hours in multi in Rome2 and just a couple of campaigns while in every previous total war I had at least 10

>>724762824 (OP)
empire
Got it day one and expected kino because of medieval 2 but got trash instead.
Honestly empire was the game that opened my eyes to the fact that gaming itself was regressing, like how do you go from fuck huge city and citadel battles to pathetic tiny forts?
How do you make field battles so tiny?
How do you fuck up the morale system that worked so perfectly?
How do you make guns feel less impactful than shitty proto muskets from m2 and cannons less accurate?
How do you make ai even more retarded?
How do you make massed cavalry charges to the flank useless?
Why are most cities on the map tiny hovels with 2 building slots?

Anything after Atilla, the engine in use from Rome 2 onwards is ass and CA take years to fix their games then everything is broken again on the next release. They are incapable of advancing the formula anymore and just make new skins and settings for you to play the same game in. They still can't make seiges play out properly and constantly make retarded gameplay decisions. Med 2 is still the GOAT for me.

>>724762945
I loved Empire for all its flaws, with Mods I sunk so much time into it. The world map was the best yet.

>>724767526
Rome 2 was utterly fucked on release, so much simply didn't work.

>>724772118
Better this way. We would have Nobunaga soloing entire armies by himself if it was made by present day CA

>>724772697
>We would have Nobunaga soloing entire armies by himself

>>724772697
I would totally play some fucked up fusion of Sengoku Basara and Total War.

>>724762945
The huge, varied map where you travel around dominating resources like ivory and tea to fuel your econony carries it.
Naval battlea are good, too.

>>724762824 (OP)
I wouldn't say worst because it's still fun, but Warhammer 3 is the most buggy

>>724763341
This. It's unreal how boring Rome 2.

>>724765343
>ROT3K
It's so bad most TW fans completely erased it from memory. I love ROTK, DW etc (just in the middle of a new ROTK XIII game right now) but yeah they fucked it up big time. I think I only ever bothered playing a single campaign.

I want more dark ages/ early medieval shit but I know I am a niche target audience. Britannia was meh at most. But luckily there are still nerds who make mods for Mount and Blade Warband that have that setting and atmosphere.

>>724765128
Don't delude yourself, even the CA from 10 years ago would've fucked those games up and they've only gotten worse.

>>724773283
There's a Justinian 566 or whatever mod that I was just playing for attila. It's nice in that you have the West more divided up, even some small roman rump states. Definitely different strokes for different folks as I find the dark ages kind of dreary. Like with many periods I wish we just had better records/artifacts because I am sure there were more meaningful visual/combative differences between various Germanic tribes. We just lack that knowhow.

I really like the Sassanids but I don't want an ezmode campaign and they're sadly always ezmode-y. If we get medieval 3 then I suspect there'll be a mod down the line to make it more early/high medieval.

I just accept that I treat total war more as a miniature painter than I do a game. It is nice to see mods still using shit I made and it costs me nothing unlike miniatures.

>>724767562
Wrath of Sparta. I think it was the first DLC and it's dogshit. Peloponnesian War without Sicily is absurd, hoplites in R2 are just spearmen with a button you press that didn't actually make them do anything special and shit animations.

>>724767721
I caution too much bias for the past. Medieval 2 had TERRIBLE javelins. The worst imaginable, due to every unit needing to synchronize throwing at the exact same time. Tattood in my head was trying to test it and seeing it took upwards of 15-20 seconds to throw off a volley.

I agree on firearms though.

>>724772663
Yeah but it has dogshit designs and mechanics even if you exclude the bugs and crashes.

>>724772006
Wish i still had that old "OVER THE ALPS PERHAPS?" /twg/ pasta about CA making a warhammer game.

>>724773198
I've played a couple and I plan to do another soon but I'm still so salty about it.

>>724762945
Wrong opinion. Its Pharaoh by a mile

I like empire and a still regularly play it. Sorting out the mess that is spain or the ottomans is fun

>>724762824 (OP)
it's either this or shogun

>>724762824 (OP)
If by big consequences for the series then Rome 2, launch was a disaster and it fucked every total war ever since.
Worst as game then Thrones of Britania or Pharaoh(pre dynasties) nobody bought this shit because it was boring and had no content.
Also warhammer 3(also with terrible launch dspite being path of wh2 that worked mostly fine) is somehow worse than 2 and have less soul than 1.
Somehow bunch of retards trust CA with making WW1/40k total war on new engine despite constant fuckups like rome 2, warhammer 3, pharaoh and whole future of 3 kingdoms and hyenas disaster.

If you like Empire's setting you might like Master of Command. It's like Empire battles in a kind of half rogue like half Battle Brothers campaign. I think it's pretty good. Not perfect by any means but pretty good. I "acquired" it from cs.rin but it's probably on the repackers by now.

>>724774502
>>724773283
I was hyped for Britannia since I loved the viking invasion expansion, but they even managed to make that a tedious slog
>how about we get rid of walls and garrisons for most towns AND limit how many armies you can have!

I never understood why people want medieval 3.
Ca has already proven that they are faggots who can't make good games anymore. It's just soulless slop like rome 2 or attilla. Hell even these games are good when it comes to their modern 'historical' titles.

You wont get the mods that made medieval 2 the timeless classic that it is. There will be no Third age total war, elder scrolls total war or stainless steel. There will be regions with limited building slots, there will be an americas dlc and you will not discover america in the normal campaign.

It's just bleak. I'd rather not get a medieval 3 than a slop medieval 3 with gay ass heroes and lords.

>>724777689
Folks just want med 2 but with better graphics and fixed pathfinding and other qol improvnets, this is what people mean when they say medieval 3.
But yes CA can't make good game, somehow they even fucked up warhammer 3, despite it being just warhammer 2 with additional content and total war warhammer would be better on medieval 2 engine.

>>724777871
People want warrior queens and inventory slots for hero lords and a UI that looks like a mobile game actually

>>724762824 (OP)
rome 2

>>724764658
How the fuck is napoleon not figured out? It's the best gunpowder game by a country mile. Rome is also miles better than 2. Total retard.

>>724762824 (OP)
Empire and Rome2
Shame because the former had SO MUCH potential, but could be waved off as they moved to a new engine. However Rome2 was completely unacceptable, to this day I didn't buy it simply out of disappointment.
Slophammer games are not Total War.

>>724762824 (OP)
Unironically Medieval 2.

It's Rome 1 but worse.

>>724772697
Nah.

Three kingdom actually handled that stuff pretty well.

>>724777009
>how about we get rid of walls and garrisons for most towns
This and no agents was honestly my favorite part of the game.

>>724762945
I remember enjoying it quite a bit when I played the campaign but then rage quit when I basically won a huge battle but couldn't finish it because a couple enemy troops were stuck on the border of the map. Never played it since.

>>724777689
I said this a few times and the fan boys all came out the wood work saying total war is better than ever and Med 2 isn't even that good etc etc

>>724762945
Empire's the only one i've ever played.

>>724780605
I doubt there's more than a dozen of those left anymore, CA has managed thoroughly piss off most of their fanbase with their ongoing bullshit. Just look at the latest review bomb, they have neither the talent not the actual motivation to make up for any of that and people know.

>>724774356
Pharaoh isn't even bad, espescially since the Dynasties update.

>>724781883
Which Warhammer is the best to buy standalone without thinking about DLC?
i know nothing about wh lore

>>724773198
its a good base game they just fucked all the dlc up

>>724782996
>Pretty much unstoppable Spanish core of troops
>6 gorrilion mercenaries
>Then becomes Spain vs England and France and maybe Apache

I really liked Americas. I wish the other colonial powers got more to do in North America.

>>724782529
Warhams 2 with Immortal Empires map

>>724778021
Napoleon is too small

>>724762945
Colonised brown hands typed this

slaughtering natives with line infantry just hits different

>>724778021
>It's the best gunpowder game by a country mile.
Fall of the Samurai is WAY better.

>>724778616
3 kingdoms felt like a mobile game. I played one campaign but never replayed it

I love the battles in total war, but I can't fucking stand their campaigns. Total War games are the best real time battle simulations stapled to the worst fucking turn based dogshit grand strategy ever devised.

>>724782037
I bought it heavily discounted and still felt cheated.

>>724783828
Yeah, I really wish the Campaigns were more traditional narrative routes and your army composition was based on story choices and not building the obvious meta buildings for your faction + Leader.

redpill me on Hyenas?

>>724762945
>laughs in darthmod 40 unit stacks

>play total gay
>if you play on max difficulty ai cheats like absolute madman like their militia raping your line infantry in fire fight
>but if you don't you might as well emulate your campaign in MS Paint
this is why Medieval 2 will always be the only good total war

>>724784070
skill issue

>>724784308
shit game issue

>>724784308
>>724784387
I will say that time-gating elite units is a good way to stop the AI from recruiting infinity turboknights every turn. In that sense M2TW has a better VH/VH experience.

>>724783914
I'd love that honestly. Why do they never do that?

The historical battles are amazing, and really show how much better a hand crafted map is versus the shit the game procedurally generates based on the campaign maps. Why not just build a campaign where its just a series of battles with some branching paths based on what choices or things happen in the battles?

I think of something like a game where you have like a visual novel style between the battles, couple of choices a long the way but mostly its your generals talking so you get to know each of your generals and the world/situations they're in, you build up to a big battle, then once the battle hits which generals live, which enemies you let escape, which objectives you secure, ect, branches the story down one of several paths. I'd like that a lot better than balancing squalor and shitting out trash units and winning via auto-resolve. You have like maybe a dozen battles per campaign each one being hand crafted and having a huge impact on the story. Each one is a pivotal moment in the plot with the fates of your characters on the line.

>>724762824 (OP)
Rome 2 probably. or ToB.

>>724784609
ToB is just reskinned Rome 2.
Anything past Rome 2 is just reskinned Rome 2. Thus, Rome 2 was the point of no return for the franchise.
From what I've read, all the veterans from back in OG Shogun made their final hurrah with Shogun 2 and then fucked off from the company. This is probably true, since Rome 2 was obviously made by complete fucking amateurs in all departments (graphics, UI, AI code, campaign design; fucking everything is like it was made by people who had never made a game before... and definitely not the same people who made Shogun 2).

>>724767562
Every fucking blood DLC, you can toggle that shit off like any other sane devs but let's squeeze more from these stupid consoomer

>>724777689
This >>724777871 also i like the crusader dlc courtesy of kingdom of heaven that made me want to whack some saracens

>>724762824 (OP)
Dunno but I would like to remind everybody that CA was always shit company.
Med 2 have bugged politics, that are caused by single line being commented by line of olf rome code and this can be fixed with notepad.
Also 2 handed are still bugged, despite it being fixed in kingdoms. They could put patch at any time but it's still bugged almost 20 years later.
Current state of Warhammer 3 where nothing works is just CA's bread and butter.

>>724762824 (OP)
Out of the non meme TW:

>Shogun 2
Good game mechanicaly(battles) wasted by the rancid setting and a mid to awful campaign.
>Medieval 2
A mess on almost every level. Makes the WH 3 shitfest looks competent. Saved by the GOD tier setting, and mods
>Empire
Just a pile of broken shit

Empire takes the cake

>But muh rome 2
Yeah, it was very fucking bad on release, but CA spent almost 10 years patching it into something okish, unlike the above which will never be fixed or there is no fix without completly changing the Identity of the game.

>>724762824 (OP)
The chink one by far. Pharoah a close second.

>>724787805
>med 2 bugged politics and 2h issue fixed in kingdoms but not GC
Feral Interactive not only was able to port it to mobile, they fixed tons of bugs, added QoL updates and new features for a better vanilla experience. Same with Empire, even new units, features etc. Yes PC has mods, which it needs, but the mobile ports are actually really good. Its amazing what can happen when devs actually care about their work and listen to fans (hotseats and halberds update in Med2 was highly requested)

>>724778616
three kingdoms is garbage.

No
>Attila 2
>Shogun 3
still no
>TW Star Wars
just more
>Warhammer 3 'updates'
just. fuck. all. of. my. shit. up. senpai.

>>724772118
>Rome 3 never ever
>Medieval 3 never ever
Why the fuck is the only game that got the 3 treatment Warhammer? Fuck Warhammer in the arse.

>>724762945
Alternative for time period? Also, what the fuck, is captcha okay?

>>724788356
The Jew fears the Samurai

>>724771716
>High quality Frontline Infantry
>High quality Cavalry
>Elephants
>Baleric Slingers

Unironically better than Rome, it's just that heavy infantry is King and Rome is king at infantry spam

I really wish the unit tiers weren't so dominating. I really liked how veteran Ashigaru remained useful even into mid to late game for holding a front line and tge other units were more about role specialization than just being straight upgrades. Honestly drop tiers entirely, bring back blacksmiths granting improved weapon and armor quality.

>>724777689
People (like me, but calling me people is a stretch) want medieval 3 because the alternative is just lie down and die. There is still a chance of a Medieval 3 being acceptable, and frankly the idea of
>"Harrumph I'd rather get no medieval 3 but get something else than a bad medieval 3!"
Is so hysterical as to be histrionic. What do you want?
>CA to die
>CA to make total wars except one of a setting you like
>CA to make total wars of a setting you like
Clearly you either want CA to die, which is fine if doomer, or you want CA to make a total war you like on the off chance it's good. What the fuck logic is "I want these devs to never make a game of a setting I want because they'd fuck it up, but I also don't want them to die"

I'd rather medieval 3 than Total War: Indus. Because the former has a chance to be acceptable at least

>>724791458
>Honestly drop tiers entirely, bring back blacksmiths granting improved weapon and armor quality.
Same, looking at your dudes change appearance based on armour upgrade is pure soul

>>724792205
>There is still a chance of a Medieval 3 being acceptable
Did you stop following anything Total War related after the release of Attila? The CA of today is so different than even the CA from 5 years ago that any chance of anything good to come from a Medieval 3 is simply not there in the slightest. The chance of a good Medieval 3 is actually, legitimately, zero percent.

>>724792205
NTA but CA can fuck off and die, they couldn't even make vaguely passable version of Med 3 if their lives depended on it and if they die there is some chance another company will try to fill in the gap.

>>724793994
I've been playing the AD1212 mod for Atilla, it's basically what Med 3 would be but it's a janky mod with new shitty systems

>>724793994
The chance of an acceptable medieval 3 is not 0%, the chance of a medieval 3 that matches the inflated, exaggerated, nostalgic misremembering of Medieval 3 is definitely 0%.

CA has been fucking up a lot since Empire, but I never like the sanctification that Shogun 2 and M2 get as someone who was there on release for either. People overlook issues like the vaseline soaking, realm divide, we arr rook same we arr fight same, throwing weapons being abominable in medieval 2, overpowered generals and brain-dead generals alike in medieval 2, nonexistent diplomacy.

No game is ever going to match the gilded nostalgia in your head. You can validly question if medieval 3 will be passable, acceptable, or good, but the minute it gets into
>Will it be better than medieval 2
You're asking the material of the present to compete with the spirit of the past, and that's a game nobody can win.

>>724796929
misremembering of medieval 2 I mean.

I loved M2 and R1, I have great nostalgic memories for it, but I can remember the warts and all.

>>724796929
Realm Divide was a good difficulty boost for endgame. Every total war has some unit on top, and it should based on what historically was the dominant for the time period. In Rome it was Heavy Infantry, in Attila it was light Cavalry, in Medieval it was heavy Cav. Shogun was probably the best balance wise because everything would melt if you used it wrong.

The problem with archers being meta in Warhammer total war is that no one playing Warhammer liked it for Archers

>>724791458
Low tiers should be able to upgrade more than veterancy after winning battles. Peasants or levies wouldn't just keep using converted farm tools when they could loot better quality weapons from the defeated enemy.
It's even a common point in history for rebellions to become much more dangerous when they win their first battle or capture the nearest armory.

>>724796929
>Realm Divide
It does go too far, but it's still better endgame challenge than anything outside of 3K.