Thread 724838702

The Elden Souls community never recovered from this.

i rolled through it

Souls writing was a bit fun at first, but Miyazaki forgot one of the golden rules of showmanship: You don't repeat the same trick twice, certainly not like 7 times at least

>how will you derail the greatest games of the past 15 years?
>I will point out how the least important part of them wasn't that good

It's the only good thing that "professional writer" has ever written and it's just a good mocking of the Miyazaki style of writing which doesn't mean that writing becomes bad all of a sudden. The vast majority of people will take that over WOAAAAAAAAAAH FRIENDO LMAO BETTER WATCH YOUR SIX SEVEN MMMMMK THAT JUST HAPPENED YIKES!!!

"Why Zanzinart Matters" and it's a safe edgy sleazecore zoomer with a mustache holding a 70s game show host microphone

They haven't evolved past rolling.

>>724838702 (OP)
Still better than any of the shit made for "modern audiences"

>>724838702 (OP)
Seems more like this seething borderlands writer never recovered from this, they even put a reference to it in their new game and you can almost feel the seethe coming through the screen.

>>724838702 (OP)
That's the writer of the Borderlands series.
Are you troons sure this is the hill you want to die on?

This is why story is king. If you have 0 narrative and just item descriptions which isn't story at all, your game has failed to be engaging or meaningful.

me when I think about borderlands:
>cringe, unfunny, unserious, gay, atheistic, cheap, rick and morty, spiritually lifeless, fetid, putrescent
me when I think about elden ring:
>based, witty, tonally enjoyable and fulfilling, invigorating, artful, congruent, venerable, soundly imagined and implemented, good
obviously a cheap canard is the best the "writer" for borderlands can muster

>>724839000
they went for soulslop instead of making a good armored combat

>>724839130
YOURE PLAYING A GAME
WHY IS STORY KING IF GAMEPLAY EXISTS
god I fucking hate you
gameplay>story=music=art design=replayability
otherwise you should be doing something else, why the fuck are you playing games for the story, have you heard of a novel you fucking dolt retard?

>>724839313
Armored Core is so derivative and unimaginative just like the rest of Fromslop library.

>>724838702 (OP)
>terminally irony-poisoned borderlands "writer" hates stories that take themselves seriously
Shazamtrannies aren't sending their best.

>>724839000
I know this is bait but why is sekiro and bloodborne there, they prioritised not rolling and instead staying up close with the boss duking it out the entire fight, especially sekiro, it wasn't the typical "now its finally my turn to attack"

>>724839310
kino

>>724839310
>every boss has a second phase
this shit is so ass

>>724838847
>>724838929
amazing ownage in 2 minutes

>>724839000
>COD
>evolving
Choose one.
The series literally peaked in 2003's original, and has only gotten dumber and mire casual slop since.

>>724838702 (OP)
True, but I'd rather have a skeleton of a narrative than the hours of immersion-obliterating Shakespearean filler cutscenes and insufferable Marveloid conversations written by midwits which have come to define RPGs.

>>724839007
>>724839463
>it's a Borderlands "writer"
LMAO, exactly what I was referring to; no wonder xhe's mad.

>>724838847
But the stories ARE good

>>724840393
Except this bare bones narrative shouldn't be used in a rpg. If it was a racing game or metroidvania then I could excuse the no story part but story is essential to most games.

>>724838929
Miyazaki on suicide watch?

>>724838702 (OP)
Yeah, it's a video game. Sometimes you want to have shit like that instead of some irony poisoned postmodern writing where cowards like Sam are so afraid of being genuine that they're nothing.
Also, who do you think has a more energetic, thriving fanbase on /v/? Borderlands or Souls games? I don't give a fuck about anywhere else.

>>724840430
What story?

>>724840720
>postmodern

>>724840518
My imagination can fill in the blanks of a Souls game with immeasurably more profound idle speculation than the slop these Western and Eastern writers are penning in Current Year. Just cutting exposition altogether is better than featuring the work of someone like the xwitter OP, whose essence actively detracts from the experience.
Worse than nothing. Understand?

>>724840898
>>724840720
You know the tweet was on the money when the souls-fan is in hysterics

>>724841023
>nu-pokemon image posted from mobile
quality bait 8/8

He's right. Zanzibart "storytelling" is a failed experiment and an insult to environmental storytelling.

>>724841126
>quickly what can I target to try and dismiss anon, he knows I’m fucking malding

>>724840720
Neither of those fanbases are thriving here and for a good reason.

>>724841218
Environmental storytelling is when everything’s in the item descriptions, bro.
Oh you don’t know what the fuck is going on?
Did you pick up Marika’s shart-stained panties? It details how she fucked the elder scrolls and brought darkness to the land. It’s deep, bro,

>>724838702 (OP)
but thats why those games have good settings

>>724841270
Based misoanon

>>724841407
They don't. Story is what gives a setting life and if you don't have the bare minimum then there's no setting.

>>724839769
>sekiro wasn't the typical "now it's my turn to attack"
LMAO sekiro had you parry spamming instead of dodgeroll spamming. it was the same but different.

>>724838702 (OP)
How is that the case when the only people who care about this one tweet are just the contrarians?

>>724841375
environmental storytelling fans when elden ring environments make no sense and random shit is placed in randomly generated dungeon for absolutely zero reason

I don't think the stories from these games are as obnoxious as the people trying to decode intention through every singular word spoken.

>>724841453
to be fair sekiro is more waiting for your turn to block, cause you can generally cancel half the enemy moveset by just spamming attack

Item descriptions have worse writing than Borderlands. Idk how lore culture formed around such poorly written text unless you're in a mental asylum.

>>724840720
Souls games are literally written in a post modern style.
The delivery of scattered references and lies found at random through a giant setting that never come together into a fully coherent picture is peak postmodern writing.

>>724839058
A broken clock is right twice a day. Borderland's writing is fucking atrocious, but that doesn't make the writing of the Souls games (outside of Demon Souls and DS1) good. They're not nuclear waste levels of bad like most Western properties, just rather dull after 15 years.

>>724841453
Parry spamming hurt the enemy's posture leading to outright kills, you were effectively still fighting, how is that the same

>>724841560
Even Demon's Souls suffers from poor post modern writing style through item descriptions.

>>724841023
Worse than nothing. Understand?

It's the same poorly written shit since Demon's Souls. At least Borderlands is an entertaining mess.

>>724838929
To be fair it seems Japs beg for forgiveness constantly. For all we know the Myrmidon's big crime was using the wrong honorific when he met Zanzibart

>>724841218
All games are kill next bad guy

>>724841665
It was at least novel at the time so I give it a lot more slack. We're like 6 Sous sgames in and it's still the same shit as Demon Souls. It's annoying.

He's 100% right tho. Borderlands shits on souls for having at least a coherent story.

>>724841449
story is not what gives a setting life, setting is what gives a setting life.
Story is one line through a world, the account of a single path through it. For the world to feel alive there must be way more to it than what is required for the story narrative. A classic example of this is tolkien who has way more written down about the world than exists in lotr. The fact that the story is taking place in a world where many things are alluded to, or mentioned that do not have anything at all to do with the story or ever really have much of an impact makes the setting feel alive.

Now in this classic zanzibart example, such a thing, even if the dev just picked something for them to say at random, makes them feel more real. Why should we know who zanzibart is? If its not related to our story there is no need to explain it. Its related to that characters story. You dont know everything about every real person you interact with.

Just sprinkling random stuff like that around make the setting feel more real than writing narrative about everything full of exposition and carefully explained lore. Its possible to have too much of that. Its sufficient for players to see something and think 'there is meaning to this' and move on than to have to cram it in a lore book somewhere, but it would be lacking to have an area with no sense of meaning at all.

Ultimately through these kinds of things a picture of the deeper lore just manifests on its own, and like our own history we dont know many things for sure, but there are bits here and there that reinforce each other and lead to the commonly accepted narrative. No writer could actually intentionally craft something as profoundly deep as an actual world, and so this technique is actually of great utility. In it the world can emerge on its own from the little things that seemed right to put in. All those things that seem right will be way more authentic than actually trying to contrive complexity.

>>724840732
Thr one where the dying guy laments his failure to uphold his duty. Kino every time

>>724841916
>alluding to depth which doesn't even exist is preferable to a mediocre lore dump
Ask me how I know you're White.

>>724841871
bad bait, 0/8

>no story
>no narrative
>no characters
>no setting
>mediocre gameplay
Idk how souls gets a pass for being glorified trashy mobile games.

>>724842215
yeah everyone would much rather play borderlands instead

>>724839436
Most people are noobs, Story that can be learned in an hour or two is always gonna be more memorable than Gameplay Mechanics that take 20+ hrs to master, and that's IF they're good enough to even bother.

>>724841554
This

>>724842274
Borderlands 3 had more sales than ER

AAAAAAH SAVE ME ZANZISHART

>>724842367
westsissy delusion... pitiful

>>724839007
>>724840393
uh oh melty

>>724842215
>mobile games
>no story
funnily enough some gachashit literally had hours and hours of talking

pokedex entries have more story and better lore/world building than soulsslop

>>724842367
Optimistically BL3 has 18-20 mil sales.
ER has at the low end, 30 mil.

>>724842519
When I say mobile garbage I meant those knockoff Clash of Clans and Tetris clones.

>>724838702 (OP)
The saddest part is that as bad as Borderlands' story is at least it has a story. I can summarize Borderlands' story, but nobody has ever summarized a Souls story. And I do NOT mean summarize the premise, but the actual story of the games with:
>Characters
>Character Arcs
>Conflict
>Climax
>Resolution
Borderlands is a shitshow, but it still has all the standard storytelling techniques and expectations. Dark Souls' story is a bag of bad translated fortune cookies.

>Fromsoft bad!
>Muh borderlands would never!
I haven't played either of these games since DS3 and Borderlands 2. Whats the correlation? Did Borderlands 4 gigaflop or did Miyazaki drown one of his coworkers in a poison swamp?

>>724842595
Borderlands series is better than souls for it. They give me motivation to push forward since they have a narrative to tie everything together.

>>724839130
>your game has failed to be engaging or meaningful.
so you are proving your own point false because souls games are engaging and meaningful?

>>724842668
Fromsoft was never good and Borderlands is the less shit than souls.

>>724842595
>>724842742
>>724842776
who is making these posts? do you think you're funny or something?

>>724842825
hows that fromsoft boot taste?

>>724841742
>At least Borderlands is an entertaining mess.
>he thinks borderlands is entertaining
wow you are really making yourself look retarded right now

>>724842668
Jealousy. The writers of Borderlands (like the xitter account in OP's pic) probably spent hundreds of hours making a lot of story and lore but no one cared to analyze or dissect it. Meanwhile Miyazaki slams his face on the keyboard and ship it out yet there are dozens of youtubers ready to analyze every single detail in Souls.

>>724842668
I'm guessing it's a few troons having a laugh in between dilation sessions.

>>724842871
you are schizophrenic

>>724842957
i wish

>>724842825
do you think posting a reaction image makes you funny? because you sure seem to think it does.

>>724842972
no I mean, your delusional way of posting comes off as schizophrenic. get help.

Borderlands shits on anything Miyazaki or Fromsoft could curate or copy paste.

>>724842825
I'm being dead serious. I think Japs are lackluster storytellers usually, but the Souls games are a particularly bad example. You should have to end every discussion of your story with:
>But that's just a theory!
Your story should never be held hostage by Youtubers. If a Youtuber lied and said the story was all just an analogy for Transitioning, who would even know the difference? Not Miyazaki.

>>724843039
i wish

Godefroy...

grant me your power...

>>724838702 (OP)
>subpar shitter writing for Borderlands of all things has a spicy opinion
>when called out, give up like a little bitch he is and claims he was only joking
lel
OP is a fucking retard.

>>724841453
You can bait out easier parries by being aggressive, if you wait you're making it harder for yourself

The fact that hack writer added a quest to BL4 referencing this is even sadder.

>>724842673
The narrative of souls is more efficient for that

>>724842538
zanzishart... forgive me...

>>724842538
yikes sister

>>724838702 (OP)
You know you have it bad at writing stories when a Borderlands Writer can punch down on you...

>>724842538
I generally kill Pepe before Gigachad because it makes the fight way easier

>>724842538
you can tell whoever made this was shaking with anger.

>three years later
>people still seethe at elden ring for being successful

Borderlands is a better series than anything fromslop shits out.

>leaves me wanting to know more
veersus
>leaves me uninstalling, refunding, and itching to punch the writers
I seriously hope it's just one mentally ill troon in this thread looking for attention.

Bosses are the worst part of the Souls games. They should be removed root and stem. Bring back the Lordran background blur. Enough with the superheros with a thousand hands and some dumb name. Enough with arenas and "epic" orchestral schlock. These were once games about mystery, sadness, and loneliness. Adrenaline was never the goal.

>>724838702 (OP)
This tweet was better than Borderlands and Fromsoft's stories combined. Fucking Christ.

>>724843240
>autist is incapable of differentiating emotions
That was laughter. Like I'm laughing at you right now for that pathetic excuse for a retort. Bitch.

>>724843335
>the only thing these games have going for them is the worst part
You just hate these games.

borderlands shits all over fromsoft

>>724838702 (OP)
i dont play souls games for the story. the gameplay is quite fun and that's what makes it better then most games.

>>724843612
>i dont play souls games for the story
No one does.

>>724841665
Back then it felt more like a necessity due to budget limitations.
13 years later stuff like that or still having to reload an area multiple times so that static NPCs who FINALLY learned the mythical art of moving their jaw up and down will warp to a different place all just feel like plain incompetence and not even AA tier.

>>724843612
>gameplay
>you roll around with shit hitboxes and worse combat than Monster Hunter
You can play anything else and it would be 1000 times more fun than this chore.

Will Fromsoft ever improve the player character's camera though?

>>724843772
the problem with monster hunter is that the fight often bored me due to just taking to long to kill some bosses.

>>724841742
>At least Borderlands is an entertaining mess.
You need to be lobotomized to enjoy redditlands story

>>724843808
They never moved past Demon's Souls abysmal gameplay. What makes you think they'll improve?

isnt borderlands just millenial humour or something?

>>724839310
Ludo

>>724841742
>It's the same
timeless
>poorly written shit
it's White people lore and it's kino
>since Demon's Souls
that isn't even the first videogame to use this formula.
>At least Borderlands is
kill yourself

>>724839436
gameplay needs context to be fully enjoyed, which is why the story of a game is important
if gameplay was the only thing that mattered, people would spend thousands of hours grinding human benchmark
https://humanbenchmark.com/dashboard
see how long you find this website fun for

>>724838929
so how many total forgive mes in the series before GRRM slop? was sam cringler making fun of souls or the fat shit?

>>724839130
Grand strategy games have 0 story.
You are just a baby that wants to watch a movie instead of playing video games.

>>724844064
Lore will never be a substitute for story and this is not a white man's game. Borderlands is more white than souls.

>>724843989
It is more or less the final form of the lol so randumb humour from the 2000's. The funny part is that in trying so hard with it became patterned in a manner that was actually predictable and replicable. Which is why that shitpost about Gearbox writing compared to normal writing is so on point.

>>724844376
you assume the only way a game can have a story is if it is explicitly stated?
the story of grand fantasy games is your faction taking over the world
argue with >>724839436 if you think grand strategy games are fun, they lack the gameplay required to make a game fun, no?
what else do people enjoy about them? is it not the fantasy that the story of the player's role provides?

>>724844457
>grand fantast
what a silly retard, i meant grand strategy
my point still stands

>>724843240
bro u good?

The From community has yet to accept that Snail is the best villain they've ever written

>>724842538
Personally I think the Zanzibart fight is overrated.
Now Scrimblo & Memberdino, THAT was a fight, Scrimblo and Memberdino synergize in a way so many duo bosses don't, you need to atop scrimblo but memberdino keeps interrupting you, but you just don't have the time to deal with them. It's grueling in the best way.

>>724839436
Because it give the gameplay purpose.

>>724844329
Not many, but that's more because there's just not much speech in these games.
If my memory serves, the only time it literally happens in a boss fight, is DS3 Jorm, where it's said by Siegmeir before he proceeds to fuck Jorm sideways while you help him.
Most bosses, if they say anything at all while they die, say "fuck you, asshole" or something to that effect. I think Priscilla asks why you're killing her instead of just leaving.
A bunch of NPCs say something like it when you kill them or finish their questline and they die in a pile of their clothes, though, either the forgive me, the zanzibart, or both. Though, sometimes the zanzibart is someone you know, and I believe at least once in DS2, this is the only way to conclusively learn two characters are related.

>>724838702 (OP)
didn't off do it first?

>>724844641
so trve

>>724843772
>shit hitboxes
>monster hunter
woooooof that is a the most pot calling the kettle black opinion possible.

>>724843335
>Adrenaline was never the goal.
It absolutely was.
What delusional world do you live in that it wasn't always intended?

>>724838702 (OP)
>The Elden Souls community
I think you mean the soulskiborne ring community.

>>724838929
>Ahh, Iji, forgive me. These royal grounds were placed in our trust, but we stood no chance.
Iji is Royal War Counselor and blacksmith, subject of Ranni the Witch. He tells of the history of Caria Manor, that it was stormed by Cuckoo Knights as the Carians turned against Raya Lucaria. The spirit in question is lamenting their loss there, their inability to protect their stead from being overrun. He's asking for Iji's forgiveness.
>Devin
D, Hunter of the Dead apologizes to his brother in death for not being able to complete his mission. He and his brother both worked with the Golden Order to stop Fia from ushering in a new Lord of Death.
>Irina
Irina is the daughter of Edgar of Castle Morne. Edgar foolishly neglected her in her hour of need, as he was duty bound to remain at Castle Morne, and such negligence resulted in her death. In dying, he regrets that he was unable to protect her.
>Lord Miquella, forgive me. The sun has not been swallowed. Our prayers were lacking. Your comrade remains soulless... I will never set my eyes upon it now. Your divine Haligtree
Presumably, the denizens of Castle Sol conducted a sort of ritual to produce a soul for Miquella's unspecified ally. Doing so would've somehow aided Miquella of the Haligtree in some way. This spirit is apologizing because said ritual failed for whatever reason.
>Witless Tarnished... Why covet Destined Death? To kill what? Forgive me, Marika... The Golden Order... cannot be restored.
He prevented the Tarnished from seeking the Elden Throne. He was Marika's last line of defense against stinking Tarnished usurpers.
>Lobo
Latenna the Abinauric bids Lobo, her kindred wolf, goodbye as she departs with the Tarnished to seek the Mountaintops of the Giants, in search of Liturgical town of Ordina, her home.

*eldenkiroborne

>>724847151
You wouldn't understand, little nigger. Forgive me.

the faggot who made this post is a cuck in an open relationship lol

>>724838929
Soulsissies on suicide watch

This is why Borderlands mogs anything Fromslop shits out.

>>724847634
>when the 30 foot tall buttcrack demon jumped down in the middle of the tutorial level it wasn't supposed to trigger your adrenaline
>when you got locked on a bridge with a 20 foot tall bull demon you weren't supposed to get an adrenaline rush
>when the 2nd gargoyle spawned in you weren't supposed to get an adrenaline rush
>when the vagina dentata dragon crawled from the sewers and struck a huge pose and then ran right at you, you weren't supposed to get an adrenaline rush
You get the point.
Triggering an immediate adrenaline rush has always been a major part of these games.
Other than the bosses, it is a big part of the standard level design and enemy placement.

>>724838702 (OP)
I actually prefer elden ring style story telling where the story is in the background of gameplay. This style of story telling where the gameplay stops and an in game cutscene happens where you lose control of your character is a wierd fad that must be being taught in game creation college or some shit, its jarring and not fun.

I remember trying the diablo 4 demo and the first quest in the tutorial you walk to a shed and the game takes control away from your character to have you listen to stuff inside the shed before you can go in, then you go in and have to talk to the guy and watch their animations, then they want you to escort them like 20 yards away and you have to watch them walk over there, then listen to them talk again, then watch them open the door, then you go in to follow them, then you watch them walk to their designated standing spot, then you go talk to them again, and THEN THEY FINALLY give you the first quest.

>>724847805
>when the 30 foot tall buttcrack demon jumped down in the middle of the tutorial level
I felt awe.
>>when you got locked on a bridge with a 20 foot tall bull demon
I felt wonder.
>when the 2nd gargoyle spawned in
I felt bemusement.
>when the vagina dentata dragon crawled from the sewers
I felt sympathy.

>>724842538
Kek zanzibart on suicide watch

>>724839310
Should be Forgiven Myrmidon.

>>724843441
>>724847151
>elden troglodytes praising the boss rush aspect with mediocre as fuck combat
I don't think I've ever seen have not seen a more blatant separation between of old vs new fans.

>>724849560
I don't think I've ever seen a more blatant*
FUCK

>>724844548
I loved how much of a snooty, petty asshole Snail was in every route. Definitely the best of From's 'Conniving schemer with the cartoon villain drawl' that shows up in every game.

Its funny how Souls fans went from "Miyazaki is a master at narrative" to "Only gameplay matters"

What its sad is they only changed they mind after being mocked on Twitter

>>724847751
>>724843547
>>724843283
>>724843053
>>724842776
I wonder how many unique IP's there would be in this thread if we still had the IP counter. Maybe like twelve?

Seriously, why are Souls haters always such samefagging schizophrenics

>>724849845
People who say either of those aren't self aware. Gameplay in these games fucking suck.

>>724850298
souls games have had half-a-dozen entries, while elder scrolls cucks are stuck playing some anniversary edition of skyrim.
They have no games, unironically.

>>724849845
Because Nu-Souls Fans are shrimply the modern equivalent of COD players. They don't give a fuck about anything despite killing pixels for a fleeting feeling of power.

>>724850461
You mean all soulsfags are like this since the beginning since it's all adrenaline rush slop killing pixels.

Borderlands is shit.

>borderlands writer
anything this guy says is meaningless

>>724838702 (OP)
>never recovered
The community never denied it. And never disliked it. And started meming about it.

>>724844548
I AM ARQUEBUS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMenBPSkLgk

Everything this guy says is meaningful.

>>724841916
man literally advocating AGAINST checkhov's gun in writing omg. We reached that level of cope where bad random details are considered better writing than lack of them.

>>724850616
So is anything Fromshit has made.

>>724850523
Your heart has rotted inside of you, golem.

>>724843335
based, artorias ruined entire generation of souls fans

>>724838702 (OP)
Zamn

>>724842668
Some borderlands spinoff was released the same year as ER and flopped and blfags blamed it on the souls community because of the tweet in the op

I never understood why that tweet is controversial, I never got the impression he was shitting on the games, always felt more like a joke you'd tell about your mate who you love but he does this one cringy thing so you bring it up when doing a speech at his wedding. Its a funny tweet and really not that deep.

>>724851334
>Its a funny tweet
you must think borderlands is hilarious

>>724851249
>blfags
more than likely it’s just one schizo actually

>>724851383
I have never played a Borderlands game. It is a funny tweet and he wasn't trying to attack your beloved games. Stop being so autistic, anon.

>>724838929
Sam WON

>>724838929
>>724847481
>La'Queefa
Asks for forgiveness from her lover Di'Lavascious, an African-American 5'11 man who's height she once put into question, Di'Lavascious never recovered from this blow and could not fulfill his duty to King Bolatriel of the Frozen Vale, his liege
>Kevin
K, slayer of the corn dogs, hunter of the clam chowder, a 400 lbs man who since childhood aimed to impress his brother by eating copious amounts of food. This turned into his biggest vice however, he could not put an end to this quest and failed to destroy the corrupt Lord of Fleshlight, Archpriest of the Hentai Clan.
>Anastasia
The Russian consort of King Putina, a man who lived in Castle Rubliev high up in the Slepovich Mountains. Her cocksucking skills were of no use to Putina who's penis had been torn in a futile bid to mend the broken vessel of cum by ejaculating into it. If Putina had achieved this he (she) would have ushered in a new age of Sovietism over all of Drangleic and Tyuropa
>Michael the Jackson
Once rumored to be dead, necromancy spells have been used to revive his hollowed out corpse. In life he was a fierce singer, his voice could not be recovered by the rites that were performed by his incestual lover and sister Janet the Jackson. Therefore she apologizes.
>Lobo the Lobomotized
L'Antena the Albino, another African American of high birth, blesses her dog Lobo, her bedside companion (and rarely her lover) and gives her final goodbye. Lobo ate her beefy horsepussy like a champ. They both hail from the criminal town of Chi-City, where her parents settled after Hurricane Katrina left them destitute.

Lore and world building in these games are a complete joke.

>>724851598
For real
It's such utter cringe. In the past it worked because it was all mysterious enough and barebones, but when this vatinigger started with his regurgitated 4chan content the lore was fanservice suddenly. Reddit fandom had to be appeased and lo and behold we have this type of shit >>724851548

>>724851687
It's very poor writing down to the first game's item descriptions and npc dialogue. Idk how the barebones part even work with it since it doesn't.

>>724842538
That frog. He is very silly. I can not agree with such a silly and irate frog.

>>724838702 (OP)
I can't even talk about the souls games I like anymore because it's conflated with defending ER

>>724843240
bro you good?

>>724838838
Yeah the whole "story is told through item descriptions" thing got old after 2.

>>724843335
True and wise monkey anon, mostly
Bosses are great, you anticipate them, the formula of boss-in-a-boss-room works with the lore/narrative
But one of Elden Ring's greatest sins was turning every boss into some sort of forced-drama anime fight where everyone has some wacky magic business up their sleeve and a second form for when they stop le holding back

>>724854160
Nah it's a great formula, the problem is neither the fundamentals of the lore nor the delivery method was changed. He could have worked the storytelling this way for as long as he wanted, all he had to do was not make the same game twice, which he did, though he did it well.

I hate souls likes

>>724849560
No action game has had better combat.

>>724849203
>Should be Forgiven Myrmidon.
Bollocks. "The" in name is like +10 gravitas.

>>724839310
kino

>>724841742
>borderlands
>entertaining

>>724849560
Yeah we all know with DS1 everyone talked about the atmosphere of the game and nobody ever talked about the capra demon or artorias.

>>724851383
But this tweet is funny, and also true which makes it funny.

>>724858640
Souls combat is about as simplistic as you can possibly get. Emphasis on spacing alone isn't enough to carry the gameplayjust because BamHam magnetism exists elsewhere (and that is arguably been diminished thanks to bosses sperging out 20-hit attack strings).

These games have lost or failed to expand upon unique interactions (causing a boss to fall off a cliff, cutting tail, etc) so something like Monster Hunter is far better in that regard, and the fluidity between actions is non-existent, so any flashy character action game or fighting game will be more interesting in terms of dexterity, and skill expression. Putting aside the abstract element of the RPG systems, the gameplay itself boils down to rote memorization of enemy attack patterns and avoiding by simply with very rudimentary actions like a basic block, parrying, or a dodge roll with i-frames. It's completely devoid of depth or innovative mechanics.

>>724858904
Medusa heads in Castlevania are memorable too because they were tricky to fight in the context of the level design, same as with Capra Demon, which is more than simply a flat square or round arena. Artorias was a fairly unique boss in the context of the game as a whole. In Elden Ring, Arotrias-like bosses are par for the course.

>>724860497
Fucked up and failed to proof read my post again.
>*rote memorization of enemy attack patterns and avoiding them with very rudimentary actions

>>724838702 (OP)
>Elden Souls
you mean the Elden Soulsbornekiro++ community, get it right all games matter

>>724851548
you can make fun of fromsoft all you want but this is the quality of writing one could expect from a borderlands writer.

>>724860723
>No inclusion King's Field
Elden Soulsbornekiro++ fans are privileged and bigoted.

>>724860497
>so any flashy character action game or fighting game will be more interesting in terms of dexterity, and skill expression
No, games like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta have absolute dogshit combat compared to Souls games.
No one cares about 'depth' in the form of combos or super modes or whatever. They're lame and uninteresting. That you're limited to either blocking, parrying, or dodging (or sometimes trading) is what makes Souls combat good, because it forces the player to pay attention to the boss and learn their pattern and how to beat it, instead of button mashing. And it means that bosses have to be designed so that the player can do that, which has been consistently held to.

Well it had been annoying by that point. It's not like a tweet killed it stone cold but it was a deadly clean cut right in the weakpoint. It seemed like anons and offworlders suddenly awoke from a trance, realizing they had known this for a while now.
Not me though, when i realized ER was going to be DS4 i was furious because i had refrained from playing DS2 and DS3 for a fucking reason.
If i could go back to 2009-10 when all of this mystic was still cool i'd change nothing and just discover it again.

Elden Ring = Fake difficulty streamer slop

It's a shame that there is actually a decent adventure game buried in this mess.

>>724838929
Post the whole thing.

>>724860952
>That you're limited to either blocking, parrying, or dodging (or sometimes trading) is what makes Souls combat good
Going by that logic, then the most simplistic and barebones combat would the best, therefore classic Castlevania and other games like it would make for the best action games. CV has easily a far more pure form of pattern memorization.

Not only this opinion is completely baseless and and no one sane who doesn't have FromSoft's cock up their ass actually agrees with in reality, the fact that Spirit Ashes exist in Elden Ring or the simply being able to level up makes bosses significantly easier undermines your entire argument. I've seen streamers who've never played a Souls game before beat Malenia on their first try with an OP build.

>pay attention to the boss and learn their pattern and how to beat it
>button mashing
If you think this is exclusive to Souls games, then you're just ignorant and retarded. I wouldn't expect anything else from a mindless fanboy.

Zanzibart ?

>>724838702 (OP)
>Implying modern video game writers can write a good story

>>724860952
>t. no levelling no consumables naked fists only gaymer
funny you bring up dmc and bayo explicitly, since those games are quite literally designed around messing about, rather than just winning optimally
i mean if you have fun reducing all combat into jump->attack->roll away->reset simon says then alright, but then you must also be butthurt that fromsoft continually introduces more and more weeaboo fightan magic as weapon specials

>>724841742
And he didn't even think of that story by himself, he just literally copied The Dying Earth by Jack Vance.

So what got the shazam discord all riled up

>>724862191
How exactly? You did actually read something from Dying Earth, and not just the title? Fantasy setting full of old shit worth looting is Vance's legacy on the genre, that's like blaming derivative fantasy for having elves even though different races really are irrelevant for the most part.

>>724861643
2D games will always have shit combat because they literally lack one of the main axes of movement and maneuver.
The issue with Castlevania titles and the like is that you're too limited in what you can do in response to the boss.
In Elden Ring you can make any given boss your bitch if you understand how the game works. That is what makes it good. Once you understand the pattern and the flow of the boss, you own them regardless of context.

What is the issue with spirit ashes in this?
It is a crutch for players that are slow learners, but doesn't change the fundamentals of boss design. No spirit ash, not even Tiche, can beat end-game bosses for you. She's going to get wasted against Malenia or Messmer or Radahn.
At most, your summon is a buffer on your skill level that you play with respect to.

No one has to spend time learning the moveset to most DMC bosses, at most you have to spend one or two tries understanding Nero's gimmicks. All the other bosses in that game are mindless.
The same goes for titles like Ninja Gaiden 2, not a single boss fight in that game actually requires grey matter, if anything they're all way easier than the gank squads the game normal throws at you.
>>724861924
Challenge runs are a waste of time.
Souls games are most fun when you use every advantage you can, like any intelligent person actually would.
Challenge runs like that become autistic mechanical skill tests rather than exercizes in player intelligence. The exact opposite of what makes a Souls game fun.
If you just care about mechanical execution, play I Wanna Be the Guy or Wings of Vi.

Caring about story was his first mistake.

>>724863334
I didn’t read it, but the summary is the exact same as a Souls “plot”.

>>724863475
>didn't read
You really don't have to embarass yourself like that anon.

>>724863616
I don’t think you read it either. The point is that the main idea Miyazaki had (a dying world) wasn’t even an original ideal of his, he copied it from Vance.

>>724838702 (OP)
"The Elden Souls community" finds it funny and memes about it too
Who hasn't recovered from it is you who thinks they find it annoying or something

>>724840283
>casual slop
its coke fueled aim assist slide slop now, casuals whined and jumped ship to battlefield because its slower and has more rng mechanics so their dad gamer brains can win gunfights sometimes

>Everyone shat on FF13 for having its plot also unfold through the main menu screen.
>But it was totally okay when Miyazaki does it obtusely through item descriptions, except now everyone is fed up.

>>724863727
>proving his point

>>724863373
>2d is always shit because less mental bandwidth is required to handle all possible states
>but elden ring is good because you can solve the boss and there is a bunch of input data
>which is different from autistic challenge runs which involve solving bosses with handicaps
>and ninja gaiden is bad because you don't HAVE TO solve the boss
wow actual living breathing strawman on here
forget reducing all fun into how much you have to think (which is stupid by itself, not to mention in action game context), how do you manage to hold all these opinions together in that head of yours
like i actually don't know which angle to take, this is pure delusional nonsense

>>724842519
Empty words though. You guys don't even know how bad it is in gacha games if you thought zanzibart was bad.

>>724838702 (OP)
Reminder, this is coming from a Borderlands writer. Not Tales from the Borderlands, just Borderlands.

>>724864264
Borderlands has good writing and I'm tired of pretending it doesn’t. Anthony Burke even started working at TV Shows after the games due to how good his writing is.

>>724863712
The point is that your point is so uninformed that it sounds like bait. This is not a defense for Michael Zaki, you just said a stupid thing and defended it with WELL I BET YOU HAVEN'T READ IT EITHER HUH. Literally why do that, you can just call the story awful, but if you do it like that it's just a fucking falseflag. This is embarrassing, literally citing a wikipedia summary and probably not even that, because Vance's work has very little do with the actual state of the world, it's pulp adventures, you are a clown.

>>724864264
Still shits out better content than uninspired item descriptions.

>>724864331
Tales from the Borderlands is good. Everything else is bleh to me. Kinda like that mass-consumption comedy that is always around but never breaks out of its sphere of influence like other comedic properties.

Also commercial writing is an incestuous community built on references and fitting in. Getting jobs means more that your easy to work with and get the job done. I.e. the writers for Forspoken and Veilguard already have new projects they're working on.

>>724838838
Oh, Miyazaki remember the rule. It's the playerbase that either forgot or never knew the rule.

>>724864468
Nah, the old hunter gear in Bloodborne has more interesting writing in its item description than Borderlands 1 has across its entire plot.

>>724838929
Rollslopsisters.....

>>724863373
>2D games will always have shit combat because they literally lack one of the main axes of movement and maneuver
>The issue with Castlevania titles and the like is that you're too limited in what you can do in response to the boss
There's no issue, actually. You're just pulling some shit criteria out of your ass. Souls games absolutely do not have "better combat" than 2D fighting games because of those inane reasons. At most, it's a preference, just like some people prefer Tekken over Street Fighter. To suggest anything more than that and double and triple down on all of this stupid bullshit is beyond laughable. I hope there aren't midwits out there like yourself in charge of designing a game.

>In Elden Ring you can make any given boss your bitch if you understand how the game works
That includes abstract systems that go beyond skill and technical prowess.
>Once you understand the pattern and the flow of the boss
Not exclusive to Souls games.

>What is the issue with spirit ashes in this?
The issue with Spirit Ashes is that it's a crutch not for bad players, but for bosses that are designed to spaz out on you with a barrage of of hits and near infinite stamina. Sure, you could excuse it by saying "only bad players" use it, just like you *could* technically beat the game with no weapons equipped, but you could very easily apply that same standard towards action games that you're criticizing. Just don't "button mash" or do combos, bro. It's a retarded cop out.

>No spirit ash, not even Tiche, can beat end-game bosses for you
You are massively downplaying the strength of Spirit Ashes. I didn't say they would beat the entire game for you, but they can fucking MELT a boss's health bar and draw their targeting away from you which makes the game infinitely easier. That is a massive fucking deal.

>>724863373
cont.

>No one has to spend time learning the moveset to most DMC bosses
Yeah, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. The fact you're writing these walls of text while so confidently regurgitating plain horseshit makes you a delusional moron. It's bordering on mental illness at this point.

Even putting DMC aside, other action games exist. Monster Hunter plays completely differently, and my criticism of Souls combat in >>724860497 went beyond just the dextrous aspect. It's about the ways that actions flow between each other (ER still doesn't even have a fucking hotbar for spells and you have to cycle manually through each one by one) and how you interact with bosses (again, like cutting off their tails, or making them fall off the arena, WHICH DS1 HAD TO SOME EXTENT, BUT ER FAILED TO EXPAND UPON IT).

I love this thing that dishonest cuntbags like you do that they take a small part of the argument, misrepresent it, and don't even touch on the other points.

>>724838838
I honestly prefer there being no story, 1. because I dont give a shit fuck story in a video game and 2. it being told through vague Bible-esque bits of scripture that the npcs know but not the player makes it feel both more open ended and cohesive, way better than millenial-written cutscenes or a Star Wars text crawl or something. plus the player character having no identity is important for a game like this I feel.

>>724864225
You know what's fucking insane about Kingdom Hearts now? We have deep lore I CANCELLED gacha games but someone at Square was retarded and tried to do a high fedility GPS game. The only reason we know Sigurd who was seen at the end if the shitty 2d gacha games was narrating the trailer for KH4 and Missing Link is because at the 2pth anniversary event Nomura hid that information in placards that if you read in the shape of an X would tell you the narrator is Sigurd. Whose backstory we will now never know because its fucking cancelled.

And dont even get me started on the names in the Hallow Bastion books in Kingdom Hearts 1 that was never explained.

And I'll never know the answer to any of this really because I'm already old

>>724863373
Oh, I love this too:
>Challenge runs are a waste of time.
>Souls games are most fun when you use every advantage you can, like any intelligent person actually would
Also you:
>spirit ashes
>It is a crutch for players that are slow learners

Your brain is cooked, you dopehead. Log off of the the fucking internet.

>>724838702 (OP)
I really don't give a single fuck about lore. The last time I did was when I was a kid reading my n-th fantasy book series. Since then I just don't care about a dry reciting of facts that happened in a world. I care about the plot. The things that actually happen in the game that I may have an emotional connection with. Dark Souls is one of my favorite games of all time, but I've never looked up anything about the lore, because it's just that uninteresting to me.

>>724864093
Solving a boss involves using the game's mechanics to your advantage, not just learning the pattern of pure mechanical inputs needed to beat it like you're a TAS machine.
2D is shit, because it limits the player more than because it limits the boss. Any boss can be basically unbeatable in 2D, but one in 3D has much more to overcome because the player is massively empowered.

>>724864898
To give the braindead devil his due, number of dimensions is a fundamental """issue""" that colors absolutely everything, including combat. A more relevant rebuttal is that verticality is still not a thing for bosses, excluding a handful that feature "jump attack here" signs. Which is itself a gimmick that was discarded down the line in favour of more straightforward arenas with no relevant elevation.
While Elden Ring added a jump button, it is so utterly underutilized in terms of combat, that the few patterns that are centered around it are fucking stupid. In other words: it just a gimmick, like backsteps out of neutral, only relevant thanks to to dual-wielding ultragreatsword jump attacks.

>>724838702 (OP)
>Awful writer
>Idiotic person in general
>Fails most of what he specializes in, comedy
>Then one day, for no reason at all...
>Just casually writes one of the most clever, brilliant, and humorous critiques anyone has ever written
Is there a name for this type of phenomenon? Is this one of those 'flukes' I've heard about?

>>724839130
>story is king
You also think that VNs are games right? You also use terms like "kino" or "trvke" just to fit in. You don't like games, simple as.

>>724865478
>To give the braindead devil his due, number of dimensions is a fundamental """issue""" that colors absolutely everything, including combat
Oh, I agree with that. It's the part that he outright says 2D is inherently "bad" because of that.

>>724838702 (OP)
This whole thread has been seething about borderlands instead of trying to prove the tweet wrong. It doesn't matter who said it , is it true or not ? And if it's true then is it necessarily bad or not ? That should be the aim for soul defenders.
Reminding people that this was said by a borderline writer doesn't mean Jackshit when they play the games and actually witness the thing that the tweet talked about.
By the end it just feels like the tweet hit a nerve and people are mad because they think it might be true afterall and are insecure about liking a game with that flaw.

>>724864898
>>724864962
>>724865067
There's a reason no extant action games are built around Street Fighter style combat, and ones that kinda were usually added a semi-3rd axis like the Final Fight series for strafing.
That kind of 2D combat is inherently massively limiting to the player and doesn't work in a full action game rather than a dueling simulator.

Technical skill was never my focus for why Souls combat and how it facilitates learning the ins and outs of bosses was a good system.

Spirit ashes are good because they make the game easier if you know which to use for what boss.
They're unsatisfying for many because they take away from your direct engagement with the boss. You are literally playing the game less, and not just in the sense of spending less time fighting the boss. If just spending more time was good, I wouldn't call challenge runs like 'fist only lvl 1' asinine.
This is why bosses like Consort Radahn and others in the DLC are good, because he's built with you using your best spirit ash in mind, and that can only buoy the rest of your creative problem solving regarding beating him.
They are crutches that are useful for noobs to use as they figure out how to crush a boss for the first time. But you'll naturally use them less over time without any outside interference as you have more fun beating the boss with your own creativity and skills.

Regarding Monster Hunter's environmental mechanics, they're just an attempt to gild a lily that doesn't exist.
Its fun to make a kaijuu run off a cliff as you fight them, but there are no monsters in Monster Hunter that feel as good to fight as Bayle. They're strictly all worse combat encounters that are uplifted slightly by the game sometimes letting you use terrain to your advantage.
And this usually isn't even possible for the major boss fights that almost always take place in some obvious combat arena.
Souls games aren't trying to be hunting games, they're trying to be the best combat arenas.

>>724865451
>Any boss can be basically unbeatable in 2D
>one in 3D has much more to overcome because the player is massively empowered
again, delusional nonsense, you talk about some vague abstraction of a game and a platonic ideal of how a player engages with it
equating complexity with fun is very silly

>>724843335
Based and true.

>>724866024
>learning the ins and outs of bosses
nigga that's all videogames
patterns and states and shit

>>724838702 (OP)
Recover from what exactly? How is picrel bad in any way? There's still school of thought, people still go to college and university studying Philosophy from fucking 2600 years ago. It's still the basis of everything, today, from books to movies, tv, and even games. Anything that requires thinking and decision making, reasoning, really. An hour long video about Malenia on a 200 hrs long game is nothing compared to a lifetime on a something that's been studied and practiced for over 2 Millenia.

>>724866608
DS2 is cringe though, i-frames are bad and so are the hitboxes and they made traversing the levels unfun
they even removed i-frames from fog-walls just to be annoying niggers

>>724839000
There is literally no human in the world who thinks COD WW2 is an evolution of anything, much less Blops 2

>>724839000
newfag meme, imagine not knowing fromsoft before demons souls lmao

>>724866024
What does "Street Fighter style combat" even mean? That's not my argument, it's about 2D gameplay as whole. Virtually all Metroidvanias and a bunch of platformers coming out to this day are 2D.
>and ones that kinda were usually added a semi-3rd axis like the Final Fight series for strafing
You mean lane switching? I'm pretty sure that hasn't been a thing in ages. Guilty Gear is 2D, 2XKO is 2D, Marvel Tokon will be 2D. No one is seriously disputing the depth of 2D gameplay, let alone implying that Souls games are automatically better just because they're 3D.

That's not even accounting for the issues Souls games historically have had. Are we forgetting circle strafing and backstab fishing already? Margit, for example, gets destroyed by lock-on sprinting. And like the other anon pointed out >>724865478, jump is nothing more than a gimmick. You give Souls games far too much credit for not doing anything new in terms of combat.

>Spirit ashes are good because they make the game easier if you know which to use for what boss.
You're backtracking like a motherfucker. Besides, the choice hardly matters. You've got maybe a handful of really useful Spirit Ashes out of dozens in the entire game, and Tiche and Mimic tear have always been by far the most powerful. They don't make the gameplay any no more engaging than if you would just summon a player, and their actions are completely beyond your control. At best, they serve as a good distraction to break the boss' targeting. At worst, they will help you destroy the bosses. But yeah sure, DMC, Bayo, Monster Hunter, Ninja Gaiden are all fucking terrible action games that pale in comparison because you can just button mash and not learn any patterns as opposed to this masterpiece that has an automated gameplay mechanic.

Fanboy brain rot.

>>724838702 (OP)
Zanzibart was a total bro

>>724866024
cont.

>They're unsatisfying for many because they take away from your direct engagement with the boss. You are literally playing the game less, and not just in the sense of spending less time fighting the boss. If just spending more time was good, I wouldn't call challenge runs like 'fist only lvl 1' asinine.
This is why bosses like Consort Radahn and others in the DLC are good, because he's built with you using your best spirit ash in mind, and that can only buoy the rest of your creative problem solving regarding beating him.
>They are crutches that are useful for noobs to use as they figure out how to crush a boss for the first time. But you'll naturally use them less over time without any outside interference as you have more fun beating the boss with your own creativity and skills.
What's with all the mental gymnastics. How can you say so much and say so little? It's a fucking garbage mechanic, m8. It doesn't take that much brain power to realize that.

>Regarding Monster Hunter's environmental mechanics
Not just environmental mechanics. You cut off their body parts, make them tired, trap them, etc.
>they're just an attempt to gild a lily that doesn't exist
Vacuous statement. Are you using GPT?

>Its fun to make a kaijuu run off a cliff as you fight them, but there are no monsters in Monster Hunter that feel as good to fight as Bayle.
>Its fun to make a kaijuu run off a cliff as you fight them
What in the fuck are you talking about? You are so unbelievably retarded. Seriously, are you AI for these responses? It's becoming a little too on the nose now.

>>724849845
As someone who only played elden ring I think the lore is fine, but why did we need so many poison swamps of several types

>>724850772
checkovs gun does not extend to set dressing

kino

>>724868115
It was that ninja... Grey Fox.

>>724839000
improved your bait

>>724839769
>I know this is bait
>but why is it bait?

>>724839000
Those digits confirm that anon is speaking the truth

>>724867056
>i-frames are bad and so are the hitboxes and they made traversing the levels unfun
>they even removed i-frames from fog-walls just to be annoying niggers

That's a lot of words just to say that you're a shitter.

>>724868365
Masterful.
Not going too crazy, but enough to sting.

>>724867586
>No one is seriously disputing the depth of 2D gameplay
I am.
A type of gameplay that is so 'deep' it can only withstand a dueling simulator is not deep at all. Why are there no actual good PvE action titles with Guilty Gear type mechanics? Because the system is barely able to adequately handle a 1v1 in PvP.
No one has ever said that big Metroidvanias like Dead Cells or Silksong have the best combat systems compared to any number of 3D action titles. Silksong is fun for its exploration and aesthetic and sense of tension from the difficulty, not because the combat is particularly good. Being difficult is not the same as good, the Kings Field series is very difficult and also has irredeemable dogshit combat.

The jump is only underutilized if you think the point of including it was for your avatar to parkour around boss arenas, instead of it being there as another method of avoiding damage and boosting your own attacks based on your ability to read the telegraphs.
There is no issue with the player being able to outmaneuver the boss, either. Not standing still and passively waiting for attacks to dodge should be encouraged.

>>724867803
At a certain point you come off as playing up deliberate ignorance.
My post is very clear about what I'm saying. Spirit Ashes are mechanically good because they're strong, they're emotionally unsatisfying because they take away engagement.
The loss of engagement was my obvious focus. They're a crutch for those that can't keep up, the same as lowering the difficulty on a game like DMC, but you naturally lose your training wheels as you improve and want to have more fun with the game using everything you've learned.

References to GPT for basic phrases like 'gild a lily' or 'kaijuu' is retarded.
My obvious point is that environmental interactions or things like traps are addendums to a good combat system to improve it. The problem being that MonHun doesn't have that good combat system.

>>724844329
westoids never critique their own.
they always get pissy when japs start taking over media discourse and attention.

>>724869086
The westoid is right in this rare instance. Zanzibart is bad writing and lore.

>>724840807
he correctly used the word postmodern i am autistic and informed about this subject

>>724869017
>I am
But you're just some random retard confusing his own personal preferences for any sort of objective standard.
>A type of gameplay that is so 'deep' it can only withstand a dueling simulator is not deep at all
I'm in awe at all of the shit you keep inventing.
>Why are there no actual good PvE action titles with Guilty Gear type mechanics?
Like this, I have no fucking clue what you're trying to say here. And I don't believe you do either. You haven't explained what you meant by "Street Fighter style combat" combat yet and you keep spitting out random terms.

Shmups require extremely precise positioning. Again, most of them are 2D. There are other types of combat encounters and gameplay challenges besides "dueling". Hell, depth can come in many forms that doesn't strictly require real-time action, like plenty of turn-based strategy games, or chess. Have you heard of that one?

>No one has ever said that big Metroidvanias like Dead Cells or Silksong have the best combat systems compared to any number of 3D action titles
No one except rabid FromSoft cultists say Souls has the best gameplay out of all action games either, including even fighters.

>Silksong is fun for its exploration and aesthetic
Sounds like that's something FromSoft actually excels at. Maybe if you weren't such an unrepentant FS cocksucker, you would be able to differentiate the great from the mediocre parts of their games.

>The jump is only underutilized if you think the point of including it was for your avatar to parkour around boss arenas, instead of it being there as another method of avoiding damage and boosting your own attacks based on your ability to read the telegraphs.
You're basically saying the same exact shit that anon said. Yeah, it's a gimmick. Level design in most arenas is still flat, so the jump is underutilized because of that.

You have to be a complete subhuman if you defend Fromslop. The lore is below a typical Borderlands plot and the gameplay have less freedom and variety than fucking Bethesda games. There are millions of better Jap devs out there but normies chose the worst of the bunch.

>>724838702 (OP)
Oh Yeah, That Happened.
Is that Elden Ring movie still happening?

>>724869017
cont.

>My post is very clear about what I'm saying
My issue comes from your blatant double standard that you're still trying to keep to save face. You said the fun in Souls games comes from utilizing every mechanic at your disposal (poise trivializes DS1 to the that you can literally *button mash*, Spirit Ashes make bosses significantly easier), and at the same time Spirit Ashes are used by less skillful players. Sorry, retard. But you can't have your cake and eat it to.. Especially when you have the gall of saying you can just button mash in all other action games and you don't have to learn any of the bosses patterns.

But like I've said, I have literally watched streamers beat Malenia on their first or couple of tries without ever having played a Souls game before.

>References to GPT for basic phrases like 'gild a lily' or 'kaijuu' is retarded.
Yeah, no one talks like that. You're speaking as someone who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.
>My obvious point is that environmental interactions or things like traps
AGAIN, not JUST the environmental interactions or traps, you can actually cut off body parts of the monsters and tire them out as you the fight progresses. You should actually try playing the games sometime.

>>724838702 (OP)
The best part about this is how he got so butthurt that he added that Zanzibart quest in Borderlands 4.
Although it's even funnier how nobody brought that up in this thread.

>>724869017
>Street Fighter style combat
>Guilty Gear type mechanics
you keep rambling about "combat systems" but these particular phrasings suggest you have absolutely zero clue about how games work
do you expect to see motion inputs everywhere? should we discuss dark souls sword swings in terms of startup-active-recovery frames and hurtbox lengths?

>jump is (...) there as another method of avoiding damage
which would make it a dismal failure by your account, since you use it during open world traversal way more than during combat, where regular dodgeroll still reigns supreme

>>724838702 (OP)
It's funny that ChatGPT shits out a better script than either him and Miyazaki.

>>724841218
point n click "adventure" games are actually puzzle games

>>724870975
Puzzle games are a couple of steps above soulsslop.

>>724870774
nobody played br4
this entire thread is just cuntrarian trolling
and it works
from sissies btfo
kekwabindo

>>724838702 (OP)
Nothing to recover from. Your story sucks and I want less of it.

If you want people to care about your lore then it needs to be front an center. Borderlands doesn't do that, therefore, you cannot zanzibart.

>>724870009
I don't think you can dump every whedonism into the postmodern bucket. Unless a single whiff of (witless) irony automatically makes any work postmodern, but that's bullshit.

>encounter some NPC
>he says some cryptic bullshit in queen's English
>forget about him and fight some bosses
>encounter him again six hours later
>he's beaten and bloody while standing over some corpses
>"Thou art truly Tarniverished..."
>he falls over dead
>drops one Smithing Stone +2 (literal vendor trash)
Miyazaki... I kneel...

>>724871464
Lore needs context to give it meaning otherwise it makes no sense and is just background noise. In souls case, nobody cares about it and just play jank fest garbage for the fake challenge to feel something about overcoming piss easy bosses.

>>724871595
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4RKDGybO0s

He's right. Borderlands for all the flak it gets, is still more fun to play than something like Bloodbore, Souls trilogy, or Sekishit since they have no plot nor narrative to keep things interesting. It's the same vague and lazy excuse of a story and doesn't warrant any replay value.

>>724842538
kek true

I hate how Fromslop gets a pass when they make worse rpgs than nuBioware or nuObsidian. No story is a big red flag to any rpg and souls games shouldn't be the exception.

>>724871676
>In souls case, nobody cares about it
I'm going to disagree with you here, we wouldn't even be having this conversation if that were true. Tons of people care about the lore. A lot. The real number is probably closer to hundreds of lore channels. Meanwhile nobody cares about "the lore" in borderlands, they couldn't even get anyone to care about a netflix adaption or whatever. It's all well funded but the hall is empty. No one gives a shit about whacky suicide man box cover memes.

>>724838702 (OP)
Just another western dev seething at FROMSoft's success.

>>724872270
Borderlands doesn't need lore to enjoy it since story is already there to deliver. Souls have to have a dozen shills doing several mental gymnastics to convince everyone that the games aren't just vague pieces of poorly written tripe that Miyazaki just threw at the wall. This is why I appreciate and respect Borderlands more than souls since it's more honest and upfront about everything in the game and doesn't handicap itself to vagueness for pretentious scumbags.

>>724838702 (OP)
>recovered
What is there to recover from? Every character I make now is named Zanzibart and they all look like picrel. That shit is hilarious.

>>724872702
That's just a pathetic self own knowing that Borderlands is superior to every Fromslop.

Japanese > western games
I have never enjoyed borderlands, God of War, gears of War, halo, destiny, and other westernslop.
Whites have always had shit taste

>>724872496
Fromsoft owe their success to ecelebs and journalists who did the marketing for them to spread to the retarded masses or else they would have been bankrupt by now.

>>724872883
ywnbj

>>724838702 (OP)
Hmm

>>724872883
vita is dead and underage panty quest is never getting another entry

>>724872883
Fromslop is just diet Bethesda without the charm or world to make them interesting. There are far better Japanese game devs to defend.

>>724871541
perhaps the specific writer anon was criticizing did not deserve to get lumped in with the overall atmosphere of cynicism and disbelief we endure in this cursed generation but in so far anon was just using the guy as a scapegoat to vent and lament the current state of things he was not wrong to attribute it to postmodernism as the philosophical root cause of our generational paranoid brainrot that regards all forms of sincere expression as at best old fashioned or corny and at worst as malicious targeted attempts to scam people out of their faith and goodwill for the sake of gaining power

idk what's worse Fromscam or the faggot who wrote memelands

>>724839000
APE TOGETHER STRONG!
(Nice trips btw)

>>724872883
God of War has better combat and game value than any Fromsoft game.

>>724838702 (OP)

Legit question, what IS the best way to add story to a game, anyway?

>Through cutscenes
if done too frequently or if they are too long, it may be boring or confusing to the player

>Through books, texts, audio logs etc. within the game
it'll be ignored by most players; it can be boring for some to stop the gameplay to just read or hear the story

>Through small, cryptical texts and dialogues (DS style)
It will be ignored by most players and it may be seen as 'lazy', since you don't elaborate or explain things in detail, leaving most stuff up to the players (which can be good IMO, as long as it's not done excessively).

>Visuals only (ex: limbo, little nightmares, etc.)
I feel like it only work for some type of games, usually shorter in nature, and ones more focused on the gameplay and general feeling of the game. Would be difficult for something like an RPG for example

>>724872883
I like guns and shooting shit. Only western games can appeal to my need.
I don't really care about the stories and the characters because most of them are cucks like Kratos.

>>724873569
Combination of dialogue, visuals, and journals/books. If you play more RPGs that aren't just cutscene galore, you'll understand. Item descriptions are bad if not worse than too many cutscenes.

>>724873569
Larian did it best with a combo of scenes, talk, and texts.

>>724872629
The writer of Borderlands can’t turn an apple in his head. The missing apple in his head is the problem. If he could turn an apple, he’d understand why people like Dark Souls lore

>>724872883
Ironic since Japslop outside of Capcom, fighting games, Kojima, or Ninja Gaiden is usually worse than the worst westslop game.

>>724863727
No? They had an actual meltdown, threatened to kill this guy, made him apologize and now only meme about it in retrospect because it was really embarrassing to be this big of a cry baby about demon souls 7 not getting its dick sucked off as the most revolutionary thing ever

>>724874104
The fuck is this pretentious drivel? Nobody cares for souls outside of boss fights. Get your head out of your ass. Borderlands has a better story for at least having one which Miyazaki fails to do that bare minimum requirement.

>>724873569
Story is a catch all for everything from lines of dialogue to character goals to technicalities of prose. Interactivity adds a huge complication to making a coherent story that most games try to ignore. Games that are considered to have the "best story" are generally pulpy, partially optional, and have a degree of reactivity.
Needless to say, a unique intro in a fighting game mirror match and an RPG final boss that game defeated in a textbox are different beasts.

>>724873803
>>724873936
Yeah, I think a combination is preferable, depending on the type of game and narrative you're trying to make.
Also ideally every player would like and take interest in the story and all, but the truth is that some players simply do not care about story, so maybe not being too 'in your face' with it (with long, constant or unskippable cutscenes for example) is preferable; those who want to see the story may do so, and those who don't can just skip and get into the action.

>>724838702 (OP)
i don't know what the lore or plot of any of these games are. i just like to play video games

Sam's comment was meant to be a playful jab, but soulsfags can't take any criticism of their perfect games, even in the form of a joke. All the seething in this thread just prove OP's point

>>724874771
There's also context that they should fall back to. Souls fails immensely at making anyone sane care about story even those who seek it since it's a rpg lol. Fucking Mario solved this with "save the princess". Souls games give you nothing to motivate you to pointlessly kill shit on the screen. It's a glorified gambling machine at this point.

>>724872496
George RR Martin literally did most of the work on elden ring writing and world building their most successful game is as Japanese as Morrowind.

>>724838702 (OP)
ER is guilty of everything it's accused of. Doesn't say much about earlier games imo

>>724873569
cutscenes or visual
notice how the best souls games had really good opening cutscenes while the shit ones were slideshows. books and audio logs are the worst.

>>724874976
maybe the point is to have fun playing the game. i'm guessing you like CRPGs though, so that's an alien concept to you, like trying to explain bitcoin to a fucking dog or something

>>724875074
Earlier games had this cancer of never explaining shit or giving you context on why shit happens. As someone who likes rpgs, it's frustrating to see why they got big in the first place since they lack so much in alot of areas.

Has anyone posted the Borderlands 4 hidden quest yet?

>>724839313
>>724839440
Armored core 6 was good though

>>724875236
Where's the fun when you could just play the thousands of mindlessslop like FIFA or Candy Crush that have 0 context and story?

>>724839000
>trips
>wrong studio for black ops 2
Blessed bait

This game mogs Souls when it comes to emergent mechanical storytelling honestly, it basically takes the "what if the story was told through item descriptions" and made the entire game around it

I never posted on /r9k/ before it got nuked but wasn't there a thing where repeat images and text couldn't be posted? I'll miss classic reaction images but I think /v/ deeply needs that at this point.

>>724839000
I guess we should move on from Fromslop and embrace CoDslop since they're also derivative but more creative about it compared to the former.

>>724865502
"a broken clock is right twice a day"
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/a_stopped_clock_is_right_twice_a_day

>>724875543
Kenshi is another one that did it 100 times better than Dark Souls up to the level design.

>>724873569
A real creator who has control over the entire concept could be handed one of these to work with and make it work. Bad games are bad because they're bad. Bad stories are bad. The people who complain about this shit couldn't think let alone write themselves out of a wet paper bag. Watching people rationalize the failures of an industry that hasn't tried to do something real for years feels like listening to someone commentate on an elementary school football game

>>724875662
It got nuked? I see it as a board option.

>>724838702 (OP)
https://metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/Zanzibar_Land

>>724838702 (OP)
Its times like this im thankful i never learned how to read

Borderlands has a better track record than Fromtrash. Zanzibart meme best suits how much of a running joke and meme the lore and worldbuilding in these games are.

>>724875284
Which areas?

>>724875931
Oh, maybe it didn't, like I said I've never been on it once, I thought it got deleted

>>724873569
when you make a world that looks interesting, people will want to learn about it.

hence why absolutely no one talks about the "story" of skyrim, but people are still talking about vivec

>>724875543
the issue is that it was actually written to be comprehensible in both grand and small scheme of things, since reading microfiction and putting the pieces together is the main appeal, the puzzle may not be complete, but you can squint and get the picture
the reason lorefaggotry is rampant in dork souls is that the fans can never admit how much the game, its story and visual design, is jury-rigged and cross-stitched, and so a different perspective will result in wildly different interpretation

>>724876062
/qa/ was made read only years ago then recently deleted as punishment for the sharty uprising

>>724875981
>story
>characters
>plot
>world building
>graphics
>freedom to chose
>immersion
>dialogue
>polished gameplay
They lack in so many areas and level design alone can't make up for it.

>>724876186
Oh, I thought you were serious for a second

>>724875662
the image hashing only stuck around for a little while and people were already bypassing it day one to post their retarded reaction images

The only thing soulsslop has going for it is the artificial difficulty. Borderlands has more going for it in this case.

>no one posted it
https://youtu.be/MP7iklkgQtM?t=141

>>724839000
Based. CoD mogs the shit out of souls for having campaigns alone.

>>724839440
Name one series that plays like either old or new Armored Core

>>724839130
Nope, I've beaten most mgs without paying much attention to the story, especially snake eater, the same with bunch of super robot wars and I don't know a lick of Japanese

>>724851687
fuck me was it always this vaatinigger's fault? this shits gonna spread to other games if it hasn't already

>>724842215
Mobile games can and have had all of these things

>>724876487
>they turned a tweet into an actual joke
I stopped 3 minutes in. This is why I hate Borderlands, but more broadly modern American humor and even their culture in general. These dipshits never know when to stop running every little thing to the ground. That dumb cunt in the OP already wrote the best thing in his career and should just have moved on.

>>724841742
>redditlands story
>le girlboss who is the key for everything
>repeat 4 times

>>724841814
This is more of a Miyazaki thing since Ds2 and Nightreign (I think) don't have NPC's who say stuff like this.

>>724875439
nta but I thought AC6 was visually cool, kinda decent at satisfying the desire to play as a mech, but didn't reach anywhere near its potential mechanically. Story also felt bad to me. I know I'm an outlier, I just didn't like it beyond the initial appeal

guys.. I think miyazaki just doesnt know how to tell an actual story. So he relies writing lore on item descriptions. The NPCs just stand around and give bad quest clues because they literally don't know how to piece the sub-stories together.

>>724875543
That game is also the worst thing I have played. Oh boy, time to play card keepy uppy and hope bad rng doesn’t make me mitigate sad for three hours setting me back again. If this gme allowed you to automate, it would probably be a fine pseudo idle game. As it is, it’s simply the most tedious thing imaginable. Oh boy, I love going through the same routine two hours in a row to steadily grind out my mergable resources to gain another level in my chosen knowledge.

>>724851687
ER lore feels like when your bro starts explaining One Piece theories to you on the couch and you don't stop him for two hours

>>724877554
That is correct. Miyazaki's pathetic attempt with Deracine is a massive clue or red flag to drop his games all together since his writing is worse than Borderlands.

>>724877695
Welcome to Souls games since Demon's Souls where the story and writing is non existent and you have to rely on bro to explain something so autistic and off putting.

>>724877695
there are literally an hour long lore and story explanations for each souls games

>>724877830
No I'm a fan of One Piece, and a fan of Dark Souls, Bloodborne and to some extent Demons Souls, I just hate ER and lore videos. And knowing One Piece lore, there is actually overlap with ER's mess

Most Japs can write better stories than Miyazaki. Rebirth has better lore than the faggotry we see in Elden Ring. Even Yoshi Piss shits out more coherent plots and better characters than the entire Fromsoft team who are incompetent.

>>724877910
Yes and I think ER's ones have less merit

>>724878124
I'm not wrong. Lore videos are a meme and always served a huge crutch and shill hub for souls games since the beginning.

>>724839436
If gameplay is all that matters why arent you satisfied with pong.

>>724878218
I'm not interested in the commercial success of these games. They are absolutely a component like you say. I like One Piece's story, I like pre-ER Soulsborne story, I'm ambivalent toward Sekiro's. Lore videos are completely outside of my interest in these games

>>724874915
Yeah i was there and remember quite well that souls fags were really really mad about this.
The most whatever jab possible.
Now they of course pretend they were always in on the joke

>>724877910
If your story needs to be explained by nerds on Youtube just to make sense then it's a bad story.

>>724838702 (OP)
Im glad gaming never recovered from it. Dark Souls one and the youtube lore community that emerged from it demonstrated subtle ways to do world building that rewarded curious and attentive players. And when combine with environmental story telling, you dont have to tell the player everything for them to piece together what likely happened. The method of showing and not telling while intentionally being vague, preserves a bit of mystery and allows space for each player to imagine a world that is their own.

>>724838929
>Soulsfags actually replying to this to "debunk" it
Just take the L fucking Christ

If your game has no context nor story then you have failed as a game director. The item descriptions are a weak bandaid and not a substitute for telling anything.

>>724842538
Hmm, nah, the guy that made this is the angry one lol

>>724870775
I didn't bring up Street Fighter, the other user did.
But sure, why don't you see side scrolling 2D plane beat 'em ups with 6 attack + joystick inputs?
Why don't you see side scrolling 2D beat 'em ups in general at all?
If deep 2D combat is demonstrated in with games like Street Fighter, then why aren't there any even slightly modern titles that make use of that deep combat for something more than PvP duels?

The discussion was focused on combat, not exploration.
Obviously the jump helps make Elden Ring's exploration far better than previous Souls titles, that had awkward traversal.

https://youtu.be/MP7iklkgQtM
Hahahaha

>>724838838
It's a stylistic thing. He told a story about the end of the world conventionally in Armored Core 4 and For Answer

>tolkien invents zanzibart lore
>he's considered trash by journofags
>becomes insanely popular with nerds, is now insanely influential
>souls puts zanzibart lore in games
>considered trash by twitterfags
>becomes insanely popular with nerds and even influences nintendo

>>724883308
Don't compare tolkien to soulslop ever again
Tolkien actually has a story to tell, the characters have depth, history and themes.
Tolkien wasn't critiqued for whatever you're implying. Critics noted that his books are extremely well written since he himself was a Nation recognized linguist with great academic respect. The critics were seething at it because it was escapist and held to traditional morality and view of the world instead of the post modern type of writing most authors adapted at that point.

>>724881660
I shat my pants in anger when I saw this

>>724838702 (OP)
what the fuck is zanzibart mean to metaphor for?

>>724838702 (OP)
>The Elden Souls community
I don't play souls why did this tweet piss people off so much? can a nerd explain?

>>724887928
It isn't a metaphor for anything, it's just a dumb name he came up with, likely based on the name of the east African island of Zanzibar. This island is actually where the first two Metal Gear games take place.

>>724838809
Fpbp

Fuck troons, fuck Randy

>>724841742
>>724838929
Even better: he didn’t think of it. The entire thing is a Berserk ripoff.

>>724888843

I'm fucking sorry?

Rapeape what the fuck are you even on about?

Is the spam in the room with us right now?

Captcha: MYWAY

>>724838702 (OP)
don't care, play bloodborne at 60 fps on shadps4

>>724844329
>muh gurm
kill yourself, he probably "wrote the lore" on a dirty napkin and couldn't distinguish godfrey from godrick. his name was supposed to draw in the game of thrones crowd, nothing more, nothing less.

>>724838702 (OP)
> Borderlands revolutionized games
> in the sense that you can reuse the same story for all your games
> and then no youtuber will make a video about it

>>724892281
quit spamming

The game has secret levels leading to other secret levels, it's normal to assume the story has as much depth.

>>724839436
>why the fuck are you playing games for the story
Because action games are more immersive with a good story that drives your character forward.
Likewise, a good story feels even greater with a good gameplay system that allows you to immerse yourself into the situations it puts your character in.
You absolutely fucking retarded disgusting brown-skinned pathetic piece of hot trash.

>Narrative Director, Borderlands 4
This is what you subhumans have been shoving in our face all this time?
This cunt?

I miss when contrarian retards iked Souls games alongside everyone else. They make good builds that are fun to try because of their deranged retard brain.

There's too many people in this thread that have very clearly not played a single Souls game acting like they have intimate knowledge of what it's like to experience it.

>>724862191
>>724863475
>This is just like the Dying Earth.
I was already ready to call you a fucking retard but then you went.
>I didn't read it, but the summary
Kill yourself you fucking mongoloid.

>>724895405
I played ER and it was more than enough

>>724838702 (OP)
>a bunch of anons think that just because a faggot said something true, that it's no longer true
You lost. Face it.

I like it.
Shit-taste plebs need not apply.

>>724838702 (OP)
Dark Souls is good BECAUSE there’s no fucking gay ass story wasting your time.

>>724895496
>I played the shitty goyslop entrant and that was all I needed to see!

>>724838702 (OP)
You realize this is a meme, right? The joke is that the player knows there's a story in the games, but they don't care because they're focused on the gameplay.
It doesn't mean the games don't have real stories, that they're made up in players' imaginations or something. The fact you think this is an argument or proof of something is a frightening demonstration of media illiteracy.

>>724839000
>roam empty maps with no interactive items, kill mindless zombies and armored guys and pick random shit up from corpses simulator

its incredible how they made the same game 20 times and no one fucking expected any kind of evolution, there is LITERALLY no goddamn difference between the first and last game in the series except for minor shit that doesn't end up mattering

like, holy fuck they made such a big deal out of the horse mount in elden ring which ended up being completely worthless, he is given to you for no reason, he has no personality, no story, no lore and no reason to exist other than "oh we made a map too big and we need ramps to make you jump high so here's an utistic horse goat thing"

its fucking infuriating how this dogshit developer gets praised nonstop

>>724897069
Oh shit, I don't think that's all demonstrative contrarianism. Are you okay? Suicide help lines are open 24 hours a day.

>>724868365
Kek

>the only interactive medium
>zero interactive stories
explain this /v/

>>724897356
Environmental storytelling is the most interactive format in the medium to date. It's literally pure gameplay, you don't have to read or listen to anything if you don't want to, but the levels and enemies are all there for a reason and you still get to enjoy it even if you're not conscious of it.
What you get out of it is in direct proportion to how much you want to interact with it.

>>724838702 (OP)
>Elden Souls
It's actually called Sekeldensoulsborne

>>724838702 (OP)
Zanzibart forgive me

>>724838838
Why change when clearly the souls community/elden ring community doesn't give a shit in the slightest and fellate him regardless.

>>724838702 (OP)
I'm a soulsfag and this guy was 100% right. Fromsoft's cryptic storytelling used to be charming but now it's intentionally cryptic as a crutch because they know soifacing balding youtube lorelets will fill in the blanks.