Thread 724935179

Explain to me why raytracing is bad without sounding like a retard.

haha he posted it again

Explain to me why sounding like a retard is bad without sounding like a retard.

It's a lazy implementation of reflections in the environment that shifts the burden away from devs being competent and optimising their games to the consumers being asked to buy more expensive hardware.

>>724935179 (OP)
frieren the cute

>>724935179 (OP)
>chudren

>>724935179 (OP)
Why trace rays when you can shoot rays?

>>724935358
trump kid's hair

>>724935179 (OP)
The Frieren manga fell off. Assassination arc makes no sense. Writer is trying to make people think "anti-mage assassins" from a regime afraid of mages a thing, to show that god-Mages are vulnerable, when Frieren+Serie are demonstrated to be the most powerful beings in the setting. It's a bit dumb.

The threat/drama of Frieren's setting are mostly culled. No more demon king, most generals are dead, less external enemies, now it's socially internal ones. Which I don't think lends to as much tension because it's hard to take them seriously to begin with, nor does it provide their alleged enemies much motivation besides "MAGES BAD".

It's resource heavy

>>724935179 (OP)
It's not

Is this just the new avatar of aquajeet to spam threads with?

>>724935405
Erufu feetu

>>724935540
My bad, thought you're asking about racism, pic attached mislead me.
As for raytracing it's bad because it makes you lose FPS in exchange for insignificant improvements to your graphics. It's not bad if you're not poor and can afford it without any loses in performance I guess

>>724935179 (OP)
more realistic lighting doesn't necessarily make a game better and it definitely isn't worth 40% of my fps. aside from that there isn't really anything "wrong" with it

>>724935423
it lost me at tournament arc and the entire premise of the show overstayed its welcome by episode 3

>reddit elf
dilate and leave

>>724935179 (OP)
haha xd

>>724935806
You just have shit taste

>>724935179 (OP)
looks like a 2022 AI pic
what a shitty boring anime style

bubabubabuba ifnruvjwbve bweeeeee

QRD? Why is this shit so high up there

>>724935179 (OP)
Explain why you post that shitface, retard

>>724935985
are you for real, dude? you were happy seeing a tournament arc in that anime? and the same time gimmick played out dozens of times? frieren fucking sucks

>>724935985
you are too stupid for anime, frierentard
>>724936160
Dogshit FOTM memed into existence. Lots of westerners love it because it's ugly and desexualized like their tumblr looking troon cartoons

>>724936172
Because you will reply

>>724935179 (OP)
anime watching (tranime specifically) is one of the IQ measurement I do with people, there is only fail or pass.
If you cannot figure out which one is fails and which is pass you fail.

>>724935179 (OP)
because it looks even shittier than TAA

>>724936143
Good post

>>724935179 (OP)
Inherently it's not. It's literally just a realistic simulation of the way light behaves.
However, the implementation is usually poor. Often the visual difference between raytracing and traditional methods such as shadow maps is minimal but comes with a large performance penalty.

>>724936160
It's good and there's only 2 good anime in that pic, Gintama and Frieren the rest are dogshit. I'm also glad the brotherhoodfags finally got dethroned.

>>724935925
Fma being up there is a meme like how people put up cowboy bebop. Lotgh is only loved by people who have never seen it but want to appear cultured now

>>724936542
>AoT is good
>the ending is mid so it invalidates the entire thing
Come on dude

>>724936261
The whole "your a tourist if you have an issue with loli and incest" stuff is just funny to me considering most anime elitists ive met hate that shit and these are the guys so deep into anime they only like stuff such as Legend of the galactic heroes and obscure seinen from 30 years ago

ADUUUU DUUUU!!!
bluhuhuuuuu

>>724935179 (OP)
Unused VRAM is wasted VRAM.

>>724935179 (OP)
You can achieve the same look with a fraction of its performance cost. Newer games can't even do 60fps with RT.

>>724935179 (OP)
Why do you make these threads?

>>724935179 (OP)
Kills the performance and stability of my frames while making it look like nintendo hired this man for any game that doesn't need it and might just kill the artistic integrity or art style since it's usually added non-officialy or as a shitty re-release that doesn't involve the original creators

>>724935179 (OP)
Raytracing isn't strictly bad. It makes some trade-offs for the consumer, but is mostly just beneficial to the developer.

For the consumer its a pure trade-off, its more realistically accurate lighting but at the cost of being more computationally expensive and demanding more powerful specialized hardware. If they don't care about visual and want best performance on lower end hardware, it is indeed a bad trade-off.

For the developer, it drastically cuts down the amount of work needed to author lighting in games. Non-raytraced techniques for lighting requires lots of offline processing which reduces iteration time and increases development costs. It also requires a lot extra manual work to get things looking right. There isn't really any downsides for the developer. If anything, it does add some complexity to the rendering engine needing to maintain both a rasterized and ray-traced representation of the scene.

So from the consumer's perspective, its mostly bad since most people can't afford ultra high-end hardware. The development cost savings on the developer's side if passed onto the consumer is mostly a wash because it requires the consumer to spend more on their hardware.

>>724935179 (OP)
flat gamer granny

>>724936714
You can't read, he said AoT was dogshit.

>>724936160
It's "comfy" which is the current buzzword troons are obsessed with nowadays.

>>724935179 (OP)
Its ok if its optional but some devs don't want to bake lighting anymore because it takes too long, so they force raytracing on all hardware even if it can't support it well. Current gen consoles are terrible at raytracing and only higher end modern gpus run it properly. It's also still not very noticeable aside from reflections. I was expecting crazy pathtracing like some of the minecraft raytracing mods had but most games have a very unimpressive utilization such as raytraced shadows only.

>>724935405
lol how can single women be real?? All they literally have to do is dress like this

>>724936827
Sounds like huge LoGH fans that didn't even watch the show.

>>724936714
the ending is the diarrhea topping on the shit sundae

>>724936160
godlike anime of the decade talked about into existence. Lots of people worldwide love it because it's beautiful and sexualized like their hentai looking loli cartoons

>>724937342
It also checks a lot of boxes that resonate with normals.
1) Cute elf
2) Cute human
3) Ontologically evil enemies therefore no action against them is wrong
4) Unrequited love (not yours)
5) Cute elf

>>724937460
>hating on loli
Reddit is that-a way kind sir

>>724937531
reading comprehension

>>724937378
>how can single women be real??
They're ugly, fat, have awful personalities and 3+ children from 3+ different fathers.

>>724935179 (OP)
wastes computational resources for diminishing returns

>>724936261
>frieren
>ugly
le fish hook

>>724935179 (OP)
STFU Frieren

>>724935179 (OP)
Raytracing isn't bad.
DLSS is bad.

>>724935179 (OP)
I never thought it was bad, more like an unnecessary symptom
There's several complaint types that have manifested into threads for quite a while from "gamers" obsessed with immersion, or just want online randos to know that they're so cool because they pissed away hundreds, if not thousands to have a heckin realistic lighting engine
Either way it serves no practical purpose when it comes to gameplay, and only exacerbates the "premium" gaming meme that further distracts from unique styles and and focus on gameplay

>>724936307
Good thing I only watch Aryanime (Japanese made) and not American Tranimation.

>>724935179 (OP)
Rays do not exist in nature. They are blasphemous. Simulate full QED or simulate nothing.

>>724935179 (OP)
because the tech isn't there yet

>>724937890
>Simulate full QED
The Universe already does that.

>>724937905
>not 6 trillion percent realistic
OH NONONONONONO

>>724937952
Retard.

>>724937976
immersionfag

>>724937880
You fail if you think there are no "tranimation" in Japanese anime

>>724938001
>he still doesn't get it
lol

>>724936827
What happened to that Snob guy? Didn't he get banned from YouTube again?

>>724937952
the point of raytracing is supposed to be realism but cybertranny looks worse than a lot of games with baked lighting

>>724937569
Normies hate loli so it’s not loli. fucking idiot

well that's easy. It increases the costs of performance while decreasing the artistic control over the art. Photographers and movie makers hand place light sources. Videogames had the benefit of not having to deal with real light and complete freedom to hand place fake ones. Instead they are trying to simulate real ones where it's not even beneficial.

>>724938168
you'd get arrested for having sex with frieren in rl though

>>724935179 (OP)
Artfags trying to pull the ladder up behind them.
Same with AI.

>>724935345
>>724935358
>>724935423

She hates demons, that makes her BASED

Retvrn to pre-rendered lighting

>>724938503
>cuck shit

>>724935405
How female elf feet smell like?

>>724938965
Can you make it any fucking smaller anon?

>>724935179 (OP)
Looks blurry due to combination of denoising, temporal upscaling and generated frames. Hardware that can run it at a good framerate/resolution is too expensive for average consumer. Where raytracing would shine is in destructible environments, were you cant simply pre-bake convincing lighting, but modern AAA games don't do dynamic destructions.

>>724938054
Golem get ye gone

>>724938965
good morning sir

>>724935179 (OP)
WAYTWACING ITH BAAAD BEGOZ TWACING IS CHEATING

>>724935179 (OP)
https://gpuopen.com/learn/neural_supersampling_and_denoising_for_real-time_path_tracing/
True path-traced lighting will always kill performance by its nature, since light simulation uses monte carlo, which is best described as "throw spaghetti at the wall, see what sticks". So you need to approximate with 1-2 samples per pixel. For reference, Pixar is using around 3000+ samples per pixel in a render. This means you fill in the gaps by denoising with AI cores, because 1-2 spp looks like dogshit, and that introduces even more performance penalties and latency. So after all that, what do you get? Visual artifacts due to the use of AI, massive performance penalties due to the intensive computations, and lighting that either looks the same or only marginally better in 99% of cases.

>>724935179 (OP)
no

>>724936574
what are your favorites?

>>724935179 (OP)
>mom I posted it again
no

>>724935179 (OP)
It's not technically bad as an option for people who want to use it, but considering the hit to performance that comes a long with it having some recent titles forcing you to use it is bad. I don't like it because devs don't seem to know how to use it and just make everything look wet.

>>724937401
WHAT A PIECE OF FUCKING DOGSHIT

>>724938229
everything good is outlawed but that has never stopped me

>>724939331
Path tracing has the quality of being extremely simple and elegant to implement and to provide anything you can expect, including soft shadows, reflection, PBR shaders, and global illumination. The only thing it can't do out of the box well are caustics, and even then you can manage by using several slightly more complicated algorithms. It has always been both the brute-force and elegant approach to rendering and the ultimate goal for real time rendering. Fucking Carmack talked about it in 2014.

Using AI to compense for low samples and low resolution is kinda retarded, sure, though it's a miracle of technology it somewhat works. But that's not what people call "raytracing", I don't think I've seen yet a video game allowing you to enable pure path tracing except Cyberpunk 2077.

>>724935179 (OP)
raytracing is just like the anime you posted
>it wastes your resources and in the end accomplishes nothing at all

>>724935179 (OP)
I don’t know why Raytracing is bad, bi to I certainly know that Frieren is a grossly overrated shit’s like a 7/10 on the best of days and even then as soon as you compare it to anything actually worth your time it plunges to a 4/10 or a 3/10 at most. Never have I wondered what it was like to watch paint dry yet now I fucking now. Shit makes me sleep.

>>724940545
TRVKE

>>724935179 (OP)
>>724935405
>>724938503
>>724938965
Explain to me why Frieren getting smashed in all her holes by a pack of pig orcs is bad without sounding like a retard.

>>724935405
i hate this elf but love her feet

Not worth the amount of system resources it uses.

>>724936294
so it's the negative attention? like posting twitter praising gay shit?

>>724936827
>nonsequitur: the post

>>724935179 (OP)
its used to push consumers to buy cards

No benefit, looks ugly.

Lighting is one of the most important aspects of art style, specially when it comes to 3D stuff, automating it and making it as realistic as possible is slop

ie. raytracing is the UE5 of 3D lighting

>>724935179 (OP)
>Explain to me why raytracing is bad without sounding like a retard.
Ray should be drawing instead of tracing, duh.

>>724935925
FMA and Steins;Gate are slop, LotGH is the only good anime you listed.

>>724935179 (OP)
https://arch.b4k.dev/v/search/image/xM8xiD700FEWjBEPHUev0w/

>>724945556
this is why i never watch any cgi movies, the ray tracing makes them look like ai slop, i remember when as a kid my friend showed me toy story and i told him to cope and dilate with his raytracing slop

>>724947298
Accidentally based

>>724935179 (OP)
it's unneeded

>>724935179 (OP)
Hot straight sex with Frieren

>>724935925
Frieren is far better than S;G and it's not close.

>>724936160
normalfaggots

pc go boom

>>724936160
CSM movie was fucking awesome

>>724935179 (OP)
It kicks ass. Where my povray bros.
In games? Whatever, don't think gpus can handle it well enough yet. Just fake it for now.

>>724950631
This is refreshing to hear I need to see it

>>724949480
lol no. SG shits on Frieren and Chainsaw Man, you are just falling for recency bias because of the shiny new thing.

let this thread die ffs
kys OP

>>724935806
this

It was good at 1-3, but that's all

>>724938503
dont sexualize the frieren

>>724951338
She shouldn't have been so flat, short and stoic if she didn't want to be sexualized.

>>724935239
Maciek will fuck her too, his harem is infinite

>>724952261
I'm pretty sure that Goro.

Cute granny

>>724935179 (OP)
because it's mid

>>724954504
it's not

>>724957456
stellar blade

stellar blade

>>724957630
stellar blade

>>724957707
stellar blade

Why didn't frieren just use a de-aging spell on her old party members? Is she stupid?

>>724957794
stellar blade

>>724957974
stellar blade

>>724958381
stellar blade

>>724958557
truth

>>724958557
it's beautiful

>>724958557
>>724915165

>>724960748
why?

I hate the moderation of this website so much.

>>724962895
evil people, yes

>>724935291
>Technology should never improve

>>724958557
oh shit the bot is out of containment!

>>724963861
loving husband

>>724935179 (OP)
frieren is an incredibly boring show and a lesson on why you should never make a nonhuman character a main protagonist in any fantasy story

YOOOO Maciej is back?! How's the wife, nigga?

>>724935179 (OP)
RDR2 didn't have it, looks better than 2077 and other game trying to shill it.

>>724964043
It would have been better if she was getting dicked down by a human knight every episode.

>>724936023
It looks better in motion like all things

>>724951338
That pic is shit but Frieren likes feeling sexy.

>>724937091
>Newer games can't even do 60fps with RT.
on your computer*

>>724935291
>rt is supposed to cut down on dev workload at the cost of gpu cost bloat
>but all the rtslop games are more expensive and with longer development cycles than ever
someone make it make sense

>>724937952
If I have to sacrifice like 30-40fps just to use the feature *on an expensive raytracing capable card specifically designed to use the feature* it had fucking BETTER be 6 trillion percent realistic.

>>724935179 (OP)
Well, if we're talking about raytraced lighting, hand-placed lighting tends to be better implemented. Each knook and cranny in the world is crafted with a cinematic flair. The hand-placed lighting sets the mood for the area.

In contrast, raytracing is more of an aura that illuminates the world from a specific point. If I recall correctly, it all also generates its own "light particles" increasing the ambient luminance. You'll notice the scenes lack sharpness, almost appearing fuzzy. Raytracing also just tanks performance.

>>724965792
>Well, if we're talking about raytraced lighting, hand-placed lighting tends to be better implemented.
Ray tracing lighting is also handplaced and tuned by hand. What you're referring to is baking the lighting into textures. I don't know who started this bizarre notion that ray traced lighting is somehow fully automated and has no human touch, it's nonsense.

>>724964593
oh yes, she horny

>>724966339
>Ray tracing lighting is also handplaced and tuned by hand. What you're referring to is baking the lighting into textures.
Eh, sort of and not at all. Ray tracing uses its own particles to increase the ambient luminance of a scene (I.E. an aura). You can "hand-place" raytracing, as with neon lights and such, but it's more like painting over an area than it is actually going in and tweaking the light source.
Real hand-placed lighting can be fully edited—lightrays, luminance auras, reflection points, scattering, etc. You could add those things in tandem with raytracing, but it's not really raytracing anymore and just goes to show it's generally inadequate. However, most studios prefer to just brush over their lighting with raytracing and avoid taking any cinematic or artistic liberties with the lighting. As a result, the ray tracing is just a fuzzy aura that lights up an area. No care is taken in crafting a more cinematic lighting landscape.

freren

>>724968689
>but it's more like painting over an area than it is actually going in and tweaking the light source.
You can tweak the light source and the luminance with raytracing.
>Real hand-placed lighting can be fully edited
So can ray traced lighting. https://youtu.be/DZfhbMc9w0Q?si=v2e2CpOEjbV7MSdx&t=765

I don't know who sold this weird idea that RT is just this on/off switch for devs with 0 artistry involved.

>>724936160
Because it's actually good unlike the rest of that shit.

sex with elves

bump

>>724936160
It's a story about pretty magical people doing good deeds. We are in a dark satanic jew era so doing good becomes, doing Good. Emphasis on the capital G. The story also touches upon why racism is good. The people that belong in the West LOVE Frieren. It's a story about our plight.

>>724970235
bump

>>724935179 (OP)
You can use tricks and older techniques to have good lighting in your game without requiring high specs or having performance suffer.

i see an graphic option on, i put it off, simple ass
no care about aa or bloom or any other, sorry without being sorry

>>724970887
>resolution: off

>>724936143
sir your sex appears to be retarded

>>724965312
the competence of the average software dev has gone down, drastically
software development as a discipline has gotten big, old and important enough that slow, inefficient corporate bureaucracy became interested in controlling in, which they did, and predictably they made every process even more cumbersome and software development in corporate environments even less productive.
The quality of the software enviroment that those devs are working in and with has massively gone down, even more drastically, at every level.

If you want to hear and old grumpy men rant about this topic for hours, then watch these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSRHeXYDLko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRE7HIO3vk

>>724935345
Based!

>>724971609
stellar blade

>>724935403
thank you for your service

>>724973193
stellar blade

>>724974679
stellar blade

>>724975029
stellar blade

>>724971729
stellar blade

>>724936827
>baby's first manime for tourists that cannot handle anything that doesn't conform to western cultural sensibilities and is listed on every starter guide
>elitist
lmao jesus christ

>>724975487
stellar blade

>>724935925
>better than FMA, Steins Gate
You set the bar low.

oh i hate this place

>>724935179 (OP)
SEX WITH FRIEREN SEX WITH FRIEREN FUCKING FRIEREN RAPING FRIEREN

>>724977627
yes, this

>>724977627
she would shrink your penis

>Have low resources game
>Runs smoothly, doesn't take to much space, looks ok
>Have low resources game, but now with ray tracing feature added
>Game now takes 2-6 times more space, runs like if its going to burn my GPU despite using the same resources from before, and now either looks like shit or looks a bit more pretty (usually it looks more shitty, and only looks good on cherry picking screenshots).

>>724935179 (OP)
I pay money for the game designers to work hard, not for my GPU to work hard.

There is nothing wrong with ray tracing but ray tracing is being used as a meme feature to sell games that are just as shit and unremarkable without it.

>>724978362
>traditional (baked lighting) = doesn't take up much space
>ray tracing = games now take 2-6 times more space
You have no idea what you're talking about.

Paradise exists only for me.

>>724978631
Out of everything he said you just had to cherry pick the one thing that was wrong

I will FUCK quintillions of perfect girls

>>724978823
It's not the only thing.
>only looks good on cherry picking screenshots
Exact opposite, it looks better the more things there are actively happening on screen because there's a lot more visual reactivity. It's actually static uneventful screenshots that are the worst possible way to advertise RT.

it will be perfect, I will be perfect. Me, God in his right place

>>724935179 (OP)
Because I prefer having high framerate instead of fancy shiny graphics. Besides, art design > graphics anyway

>>724967879
I don't think she's horny but she does like to feel sexy

It's noisy as shit.
It also relies on upscaling and frame generation to reach acceptable framerates which causes ghosting, artifacts and even more noise.

What's the point of a technology meant to increase visual fidelity if it trashes the image quality?
I'm not going to accept noise and ghosting in a computer generated digital image, that's bullshit.

>>724977028
S;G isn't that good, it got way too overhyped for just being only a passable time travel flick.

>>724965312
Development time and cost = (scope of the game - cutting costs with technology) * (1 + ratio of jeet "developers" the company outsources work to)

>>724981679
>I'm not going to accept noise and ghosting in a computer generated digital image
You've been getting those in games in the 2010s before goyscaling and RT even became a thing. TAA and screen-space effects are the biggest culprits in creating visual artifacts, you just never actually noticed because there was no AI marketing buzzword attached to it.

>>724984093
yeah i didn't use TAA either

>>724984460
Uh-huh.