Thread 724976508

The old sandman was balanced and I'm tired of pretending its not
If you stood still its only your fault you got stunned

variant weapons ruined tf2.

>>724976508 (OP)
Agreed. Stunning was a completely valid effect for Scout to have offensively, it rewarded good aim due to the duration being dependent on distance, and the health reduction was an acceptable counter.
With slow, the Sandman is an infinitely worse Natasha.

The stun is retarded and I'm glad they got rid of it.

>>724976738
I saw your retarded ass posting on some other tf2 thread. How exactly would this game benefit from making sure the players quit after about 50 hours at the most?

they should make the ball do significantly more damage and bounce off players back towards where you hit it from, so you can catch it and hit it again with no cooldown as long as your aim is good and you don't flub the catch
It would still be a meme but at least it would be a fun meme

>>724978038
a damage increase with a speed boost would make the sandman fun to use

I 'member when sandman took away your double jump, and would fully stun enemies
that was hilariously broken but in a fun way

>>724976508 (OP)
The only nerf I see as balanced is the guillotine, because stun + cleaver was too OP. The rest is retarded bullshit.

Comptrannies killed tf2. Not everything has to be le fair and balanced

The slowdown should also affect fire/reload speed. That ought to make the right balance of being obnoxious but without completely inhibiting control.

>>724976508 (OP)
Agreed. And the FG combo was amazing with it.
Just people crying for no reason

>>724976738
Being able to experiment with different weapons and playstyles is why TF2 remains the most fun you can have online for free.

>>724976508 (OP)
Old Axetinguisher too.

Competitive is cancer.

>>724976930
>>724976508 (OP)
Yeah, it's great when an enemy invalidates me from shooting any more. We love it when Short Circuit deletes projectiles because it costs metal to use, sucu a valuable resource to the engineer so that balances it. Same thing.

>>724979385
Man the pre nerf degreaser, flare gun, axt combo pyro was so fun to play.

>>724976508 (OP)
>If you stood still its only your fault you got stunned
That's precisely the problem. It's not hard to hit a moving target with a projectile in this game.

>>724979517
>>724979385
I personally miss when Pyro could Reserve Shooter minicrit

>>724978893
>remains
Yeah no. Game pisses me off way too much nowadays.

for me it was Equalizer getting split in two weapons
gayest move possible

>>724979940
Escape plan is still the best melee so it was warranted.
Sandman is completely useless now

>>724979940
Escape Plan is still one of the best "utility melee" weapons in the game, so splitting it from the equalizer was a good move.

>>724976508 (OP)
Game went to shit when they added unlocks at all

>best combat class game gets a free shot on you for hitting you with the fastest projectile in the game
>all he has to meaningfully give up is a stock weapon that he wasn't using anyway
This would have only ever been considered fair if it was on a shitty class that can't disengage from any fight if he didn't want it.
There's a reason no one thinks the Holiday Punch is overpowered.

>>724977684
>>724978893
And then you dumbasses wonder why it attracts so many undesirable trannies and dramafaggots lmao. You all go on about how great the game is but flee like bitches when you're made to play it like it's supposed to, wish nothing but the worst towards TF2 fans

>>724976508 (OP)
>play on a weapon revert server
>come across one or two scouts that happen to be using the sandman
> they are just using it as a free "win the 1v1" button instead of hitting sick-ass flying guillotine combos from across the room or map
>be enlightened on the fact that these are the retards that are still crying on /v/ about their crutch getting nerf nuked
>more than a decade later
what a good reminder those servers are

>>724980909
bitter retard.
Game was always supposed to get updates you tranny

>>724980909
>when you're made to play it like it's supposed to
I love it when a neckbeard tells me how a gamedev they don't know thinks and feels

>>724976738
Agreed. Every update pushed the game further and further from the version I loved. I think demomen charging at me with swords was the tipping point for me.

>>724981153
I don't think so?
Huntsman, flare gun, crossbow, direct hit, loch and load are all faster

>>724981018
>bitter retard.
Don't act high and mighty, we're both in the designated bitter old faggot TF2 thread
>Game was always supposed to get updates
Yeah and see where that lead the game, you asswipe.Shit as early as the demoknight was catastrophic
>you tranny
You're the tranny for liking this garbage.Now you call me that again and we reply endlessly to each other like that
>>724981368
>how a gamedev they don't know thinks and feels
I love how the dev's vision always matters except when they pump out an update you don't approve of like MyM for example, which was even worse than unlocks but not worse than Mannconomy which birthed most of the cancer that plagues the industry today. Their plan was always stupid and the only work they deserve merit for was making the base game, everything else has been objectively awful for everyone. The fact that you played it when you were twelve and are now a nostalgic little bitch for shit that's always sucked ass doesn't make it actually good. The art direction is 11/10 however, still the best part about the game, this turd would've been dead a decade ago if it didn't look as perfect as it does

>>724982008
I'm not bitter, I still play it and it's still a good game.
I wish ambi, sandman, combo pyro, caber all got reverted but people who complain about muh cosmetics or unlocks are retarded

>>724982156
>I wish ambi, sandman, combo pyro, caber all got reverted
Then play on castaway, dumbass, they're a club of the worst faggots around but they provide what dudes like you want, weapon reverts, free voice chat, sprays, not so tyranical moderation and such. Sadly no one can provide what I want

>>724982008
Was mym made by the original devs? If so I think we can all agree that was a shite move, otherwise I would also say it fucked over the adhoc connection system the game intented to have for players.
Why the pivot though? You were the one who said
>but flee like bitches when you're made to play it like it's supposed to
Or are you a different guy?

Stuns do not belong in FPS shooter games because it feel like you're basically sitting on your hands when you get stunned. Stuns are more acceptable in MMOs and mobas as you continue to have control of the camera when stunned.

>>724982156
Have you played on the Castaways server?

>>724982447
Quality post. Shit, I don't even think slows do either.

>>724981459
https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Projectiles

>>724976508 (OP)
>>724976930
Go back to your ASSFAGGOTS
Stuns do not belong in tf2, and never did.

>>724983896
I stand corrected then. The fact the projectile arcs does balance it tho

>>724976508 (OP)
It's actually baffling to me that ANYONE complained in the first place
It even put you in 3rd person
it was a fucking BUFF
if you got cleaverd it was a fucking skill issue, it'd emblematic of the horrible """balance""" changes that MyM and ranked mode introduced

>>724976508 (OP)
I'd still use it even in the shit state it is now if it could still combo with the cleaver
But of course they had to go and change that as well

>>724984476
the only people i can see bitching about it are heavy and sniper mains
heavy mains because they get fucked by everything already, and snipers because it would allow scout to actually be able to defend himself against them outside of immediate range

>>724985597
Heavy also gets unrevved when stunned, so the stun is extra long for him before he can fire again

>>724984476
how on earth is being defenseless a buff

Ambi nerf was fine. Sniper being cancerous doesn't justify Spy doing the same.
Caber nerf was fine. Demoman should not be able to oneshot light classes in melee range and punish you for doing what you're supposed to be doing against him at very little cost to himself.
Sandman nerf was fine, stuns are shit.

>>724986032
ambi needs it's range tweaked, it does less damage than it's supposed to outside of close range headshots, and even then those don't scale properly
caber was totally fine, only one class was actually vulnerable to it and he can also instant kill at any range, at most tweak it so it leaves the demo with only a sliver of health from full
sandman was whatever, removing the cleaver combo was a crime

>>724986280
The problem with caber was that it punished the opponent for getting in the range Demoman shouldn't be using his explosives effectively.
All of Demoman's melee options require him to sacrifice his potent midrange or take extra time to be holstered. Meanwhile with a Caber user, at any moment he could pull up an unconditional melee crit and kill you instantly. Even if it took him down in the process, it makes interactions tend towards lose-lose.

>>724976508 (OP)
It took about as much skill as the Huntsman which is to say find a choke enemies are contesting and spam it.

>>724981153
>fastest projectile with no splash damage
If your weapon doesn't have splash damage, then it better have hitscan

>>724988442
it took more skill since scout is a fast moving class

>>724986032
bazed

>>724988830
>

>>724990063
They weakened Loch and Load to the ground, but left Direct Hit intact.
I understand Demoman is already a strong class, but that weapon is now useless.
The Iron bomber fix/nerf was another gut punch too, the scottish black cyclops can't have shit.

>>724991471
>They weakened Loch and Load to the ground
LNL is the best grenade launcher by far what the fuck are you talking about

>>724991471
20 additional damage didn't break very many breakpoints for demoman, getting an entire extra pipe was a humongous buff
>but muh scout 1-shots
demoman hated random damage spread because it fucked you out of getting consistent kills on soldier/heavy with 2/3 pipes, denies 2-shotting light classes with melee, and would make bodyshots randomly be lethal from full health. the mechanic being gone is a net benefit to demo

>>724986628
any demoman worth his salt would only use the caber to fuck with snipers via sticky jumping anyway, the nerf only made it more of a pain in the ass

>>724976508 (OP)
>Sniper has the ability to OHKO anyone from any range instantly
>this is fine
>The Pyro has the ability to OHKO anyone in melee range after getting close to them then setting them on fire first then airblasting them then switching to melee and then hitting them
>HOLY SHIT NERF IT NOOOOOOO
Axtinguisher did NOTHING wrong

>you will never stun anyone from any distance and unload 2 max damage Force-A-Nature shots into them because knockback didn't happen mid-stun
>you will never slow other scouts to a crawl with the shortstop

Feels bad.

>>724993269
the shortstop's slowing mechanic literally never worked at any point in its lifetime.
it would have been cancerous

>>724991471
People misunderstand how much the idea of a "Direct Hit of nade launchers" doesn't work. Direct Hit was the skillful weapon because unlike with stock launcher you were expected to actually hit targets directly with it. But you were already meant to do that with the grenade launcher. So instead it just ended up being a weapon that's easier to hit things with thanks to the faster projectiles. And on top of that it did more damage per shot. So it was both easier to hit with and did more damage. No wonder it needed nerfing.

>>724978893
Would've been a cool image if they didn't get the dialogue wrong. Disappointing

>>724991471
It downright delete sentries.

>>724991471
Rocket launchers have falloff, grenade launchers don't. You could hit a 120 pipe from much further away than a 125 direct hit. Valve could have just given the Loch falloff as a downside from Demo's other launchers, but that ship has sailed.

This gun did nothing wrong, but youtubers lied about it so it got nerfed.

>>724976508 (OP)
One of the dumbest nerfs up there with the caber.
Who fucking thought the sandman was OP of all things?

>>724976508 (OP)
>made snipers seethe because scouts finally had a way to fight them long range
>made heavies seethe because they became sitting ducks in the middle of the battlefield
>made medics seethe because it trivialized their ubercharges (stunning through uber was patched out very quickly)
fun times. i get why they nerfed it, but they didn't need to turn it into a useless wet fart weapon.
guess someone at valve got stunned a few too many times and wanted to murder it.

>>724994353
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27lrgyQUkxY

Splash damage nerf barely do anything, still quite large, specially if you hit a sentry nest. Actual fuckup is loose cannon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACfafLuLmy8

>>724994589
I mean splash range, still, sticky should be your primary either way.

>>724990063
Yes, the direct hit is bad in practice

>originally a weapon that was widely agreed to just be okay at best
>gutted into being one of the worst weapons in the game anyway

>>724995362
You trade range for power, it's a perfectly fine sidegrade.