Thread 725018954

Do you use the F3 debug menu when playing minecraft?

>>725018954 (OP)
No, I got mods to display the information I want all the time

>>725019046
cringe

>>725018954 (OP)
the philosophy is fine so long as things aren't taken from players in service of that philosophy

>>725018954 (OP)
I do but if they offered ways for players to accurately gauge their location and share it with others or maybe improved their maps to span further than my back yard I wouldn't need to

>>725018954 (OP)
>you are not wearing a hud
>but you do spend at least a third of your playtime in 2D user interfaces

>>725019229
Better Than Adventure did it right.
So did Terraria.

>>725018954 (OP)
>no coordinates
Fuck that. They help so much since the world generation fucking sucks and never has good landmarks

>>725018954 (OP)
>"good examples of items that show information"
>the clock
i sort of agree with this philosophy but the clock is just stupid

Getting rid of F3 would piss off their userbase to no end. Sure bedrockfags might not care, since they're used to utter slop, but javafags will riot

for coords only yes
I also bumped up the gamma because torches are boring waste of time

>>725019523
I personally like a mod called antique atlas

>>725019523
Terraria isn't relevant to the conversation due to the lack of a 3rd axis

>>725020198
That reason for irrelevancy doesn't bother me. In a conversation about providing information to the player through in-game means that aren't a modder/developer facing debug menu, Terraria has diegetic solutions to show the player their position in the world such as https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Depth_Meter

If you want to know how deep exactly you are in MC you have to count blocks or use the F3 menu which - according to the very developers of MC, is a big no no.
So that's a point fo Terraria.

>>725018954 (OP)
no I'm not a cheater

>>725019921
>I also bumped up the gamma because torches are boring waste of time
That's kinda sad.

>>725019709
The clock would be technically fine if it didn't shit itself in the Nether and the End, two of the few places players will want to know how long they've been there for since there is no day/night cycle in those dimensions.
It's pretty much only good for cave exploration because if you want to check if it's day time and you don't have a clock, you have to either go all the way back to the surface to look at the sky, or carry a bed with you and check periodically which fucks with your set spawn.
Good luck using your bed to tell the time in the Nether and the End too, so if the clock hypothetically worked in those dimensions and you still didn't have one, you'd have to leave them entirely just to see if it's night in the Overworld, but right now that's literally your only option if you don't want to do multiplayer.

>>725020027
>mods
factually worse than using the debug screen.

>>725020532
Terraria also has a minimap that spans the world at all times that sees all players, so it's actually still irrelevant dipshit

>>725019119
/thread

>>725023827
Why would that make it irrelevant?

Terraria gives you the exact XY coords by having a compass and the depths meter. and the time of day with a pocket watch. these can be combined into the GPS https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/GPS which then gives you all 3.

Minecraft has nothing like this. This means that Terraria adheres to the OP image more than MC despite it being from a design document for MC.
Does that make you mad, angry or sad?
If so, why?

>>725019119
If by "things" you would include the debug menu I disagree. I'd be fine with Mojang making the debug menu inaccessible in the next update, it would improve the game significantly.

>>725024225
>why does that make it irrelevant
because it already completely breaks the fucking design principle from the start. The items are useless if not for what they get crafted in. Nobody fucking uses them to orient themselves with the map.

Conversely, because of the map, the items' actual usefulness in real situations doesn't matter. for example take >>725019921 , if not for a map people would quickly realize how the items aren't actually fit for purpose since they're rare drops that do basic QoL that you often need to play with friends.

So Terraria does "have" the items but its implementation is irrelevant to Terraria itself (and to Minecraft) because they're useless for most purposes. And implementation is the hard part here, making a "fuckswaggle meter" isn't matter, but proper context and implementation with a mind to when it is needed and how convenient it is to get is the design challenge

>the last 2 lines
bot or shitposter

>>725019119
Limiting what the player has access to in terms of information isn't necessarily bad, especially when dealing with things like exploration.
Not that I'm advocating for them cutting that out of an existing game.

>>725024725
>Nobody fucking uses them to orient themselves with the map.
that's also not their point, dumbass

>>725025114
If the point is "in terraria there's a depth meter while not in minecraft" then that's not a very good point. Minecraft could add a depth meter that requires a Nether Star to craft and both games' would be just as useless. Terraria has the item but doesn't have a solution to Minecraft's problems, because it doesn't try to solve it in the first place. The concept isn't the challenge.

Retard without second-order thinking.

>>725018954 (OP)
Yes
Used to play on a hardcore Factions server (no mods allowed, no weapon/armor enchantments, only iron armor max) so coordinates were very important to maximize mining efficiency as well as constructing massive defensive structures.

>>725025272
The point is that gamers sometimes need exact position values for farms/mobs or items spawns/region changes etc.

In Minecraft you have certain depths for diamond / ancient debris farming as the most prominent case.

>>725025797
No that's not "the point" the point is that the fucker said "Terraria did it right" but I told you that Terraria didn't really do it right but it doesn't matter because they only incidentally include those items for something else, the crafting tree to the phone.

We all know that Minecraft should have items to show X Y Z coordinates if they want to disable F3, that's the basis of the entire fucking conversation. And Terraria is not an example of "how to do it" because it both does "it" badly, and how good it does "it" is irrelevant because of other design elements. So no, Terraria didn't "do it right". And Minecraft should not do "it" like Terraria if they want to keep to their design ethos and disable F3. So "that guy" was fucking wrong.

Again, no second-order thinking. Your post barely adheres to the conversation.

>>725018954 (OP)
>in character
Since when does minecraft have an "in character"? There's no characters in the game, there's no story either, there's barely even a setting. There is no immersion breaking because there's nothing to get immersed in, there's no suspension of disbelief because there's nothing to believe. Its electronic building blocks, not Final Fantasy.

>>725018954 (OP)
I miss when mobs had numbers above their heads.

>>725024225
Nobody uses the pocket watch or gps in terraria. They're a waste of valuable inventory space.

>>725026963
the fuck? then there would be no block types, you'd just change the hex code of voxels.

The debug menu shouldn't be used but the compass should actually point north and maps shouldn't fill themselves out, let the player draw out the map and type text notes. But that is assuming Minecraft is an actual game with design and not a glorified game engine that people stitch mods onto to develop the game for Mojang like a bunch of cucks. Not like Mojang would even be capable of programming in the ability the player to draw freeform pixels in maps or books. Or that zoomers have the spatial intelligence for maps that aren't GPS.

>>725027250
No, they're building blocks. Building blocks have different types. If you were manually painting voxels with a hex editor that would 3d paint or sculpting, not building blocks.

>>725027346
Why do you want to make the game less convenient? Being lost for 12 hours while you gather the eight diamonds and nether star to build a gps doesn't make the game fun, neither does manually drawing maps and being forced to try to understand your friend's shitty mouse writing. Collecting resources and building bases is fun.

>>725018954 (OP)
Yes because the game is unplayable without it and contrary to what your image implies the devs are too lazy to do anything about it.

>>725019115
We don't sign our posts here

>>725027751
>Why do you want to make the game less convenient?
It's a survival mode, it is supposed to be inconvenient for the player.
>gather the eight diamomds and nether star to build a gps
There shouldn't be a GPS at all in survival mode.
>your friend's shitty mouse writing
I said let the player type text notes to. It is a basic feature common in old RPGs that the player can click anywhere on the map and start typing text at that point.
Being able to manually draw on maps, books, banners, signs or even on blocks (at least on wool) would be massive.

>>725019229
There's the sun and the moon always rotating east-west, clouds that always move south and a compass that always points to your bed
do you NEED more?

>>725029364
>It's a survival mode, it is supposed to be inconvenient for the player.
Then why don't we make the day night cycle 24 hours long, make healing take days to happen, and make any damage taken have a random chance of instantly killing the player? That's a lot less convenient.

The game still has to be fun. Tediously collecting prerequisites to prerequisites to prerequisites to prerequisites just to have basic QoL features is not fun.

>>725021049
the clock won't ever not be shit because it takes inventory space in a game that already suffers from bullshit blocks filling the inventory. make the clock wearable or integrate it to the HUD, like the recipe book

I agree with what's being said but minecraft doesn't do a great job with the tools.
For locations. the maps are clunky to use and feel overly restrictive. Light levels are actually kinda important but knowing them requires placing/moving light sensors (+ comparators) and is excessively tedious.

>>725029594
Dumb strawman. It is a video game, there should be some challenge.
>Tediously collecting prerequisties just to have basic QoL
You are still confused. There shouldn't be "QoL" in a SURVIVAL game. Maps shouldn't require much to make or find, especially in a world established to have civilization, but it shouldn't be a GPS. The player can be lost if he isn't careful.

>>725018954 (OP)
The modpack I play removes the co-ords from the debug menu and makes you craft a compass and depth meter for that info. Before getting those, I just navigated using the sun and landmarks. Way more fun.
Light levels are less of a meme now that the threshold for spawns was changed to zero. The only debug UI shit I use is the one for seeing chunk borders

>>725029840
You can put it in an item frame or a shelf I guess, it'll still tell the time when it's like that, but that basically only works for bases, it's not something you can take with you if you don't want it constantly taking up inventory space.
I don't remember if you can put it in a bundle or not, but you should be able to.

>>725031375
>there should be some challenge.
That's not a challenge, that's just annoying.
>There shouldn't be "QoL" in a SURVIVAL game
Yes there should.

Minecraft "survival" mode is about building with limited resources while monsters try to kill you, not about surviving. As a matter of fact, they should rename survival so people like you stop mistaking it for something like Don't Starve or Subnautica and remove hunger just to get the point across.

>>725032263
that's the catch, your base is a safe and familiar place, it's where you DON'T need a clock

>>725018954 (OP)
what a gay opinion
some people are technically inclined and use the debug tools to develop mods for games

>>725033150
They're saying your regular joe shouldn't be relying on developer debug tools to play the game, and an actual intuitive in-game solution should be provided for those things, lol. No one is advocating for their total removal.

>>725033870
Nta, but I think the proper solution is to make it part of the hud. That dev is a faggot for avoiding the concept of a hud. Maps should also be part of the hud.

>>725032562
>That's not a challenge, that's just annoying.
I'm willing to bet having to navigate with an actual map and not GPS would be a genuine challenge for you.
>Minecraft "survival" mode is about building with limited resources while monsters try to kill you, not about surviving.
>remove hunger
Then just play beta 1.7.3.

>>725034059
>Then just play beta 1.7.3.
That's what I do. Everything post 1.8 has been a mistake made by idiots who don't understand the game they were put in charge of.

>>725020027
this is just cheating

>>725027123
I use them :(

I make a fucking huge stake that reaches the sky to tell where my base is. Too bad my pc is shit to have that rendered when I'm miles away

>>725020532
How the fuck does Minecraft not have its own GPS item that shows everything (time,depth,position, etc.) fucking dumb ass "we dont wanna add furniture" devs

They added coordinates as an option in Bedrock.

>>725034769
Thats the idea behind beacons and such but most people can't render chunks far enough to get far and see it so the devs want you to place down "breadcrumbs" and other dumb shit.

>>725034609
Don't you have a million better things to put in that slot?

>le epic UX design says to only use realistic ingame methods of conveying information
>every medieval fantasy game has a map that shows every interactive object in real time

>>725034332
>That's what I do.
If so then why the preoccupation with GPS maps when they weren't that useful in a version where you aren't travelling vast distances without being on rails. Hand drawn maps would be even better because old terrain was distinct enough that there were natural landmarks and you could draw them on the map.
You are clearly just an idiot going "old good new bad" and are too dumb to actually think of how Minecraft should have developed beyond what was given to you.