Thread 725031330

Well, /v/? What is killing the roguelike genre?

Roguelites.

Oversaturation.

>>725031330 (OP)
Roguelikes

People not knowing what the fuck Roguelike means.

what do I need to know before playing isaac for the first time?

Rogu-elites

do we like northernlion?

"killing?"
it feels like every second game being made is roguelike

>>725031330 (OP)
autists who cling to their incredibly specific interpretations of a genre who then get very upset when the rest of the world doesn't care or cater to them

>>725031556
Absolutely nothing. It's the game that kicked off the roguelite train so simply start playing and see if you like the run-based gameplay style

For me, it's ninomae ina'nis

>>725031627
>what do you mean WW2 FPS are about to die? like 500 of them came out this year, it's clearly thriving
>what do you mean the housing economy is about to die? I just wrote out 500 subprime loans this year, it's clearly thriving

Sweaty babymaking sex with best girl.

>>725031768
https://youtu.be/suBM-PkkcSY?t=2620
https://youtu.be/qENY3M8cbRs?t=3275
https://youtu.be/gger4U32fUo?t=5496
https://youtu.be/G8zElxAL0_E?t=6943
https://youtu.be/luPZ4c6AFl0?t=8045
https://youtu.be/gCivR9_INxQ?t=318

>>725031556
It was good like 50 years ago before it had a massive bloat of 500000 updates

>>725031330 (OP)
this dude looks like the angry video game nerd if he never hit the gym

>>725031615
no, he wont play the best roguelike deck builder chrono ark

>>725031330 (OP)
Roguelikes got killed by roguelites. And by killed I only really mean drowned out, because roguelikes still come out and they were never super popular anyway, people just abuse the genre name.
Nothing is killing roguelites any time soon.

>>725031556
Maybe how to unlock things or special methods to get to different paths/rooms. I don't remember if they were intuitive and you will just figure them out by yourself. I don't think some of them were.

>>725031802
Those aren't spirits of the dead in the background, it's pussy stank

>>725032125
that's kinda obvious anon

>>725031556
How to type enter the gungeon

>>725031330 (OP)
>Killing

Meanwhile, the genre's more successful than ever.

>not simul-turnbased on a grid
not a roguelike, simple as

>>725032441
>simul-turnbased
It's called WEGO

>>725031330 (OP)
Is it really dying? Rogueslop is rogueslop, it's not meant to do that well

>>725031330 (OP)
nothing is killing the genre. more roguelite games are being released, but this doesn't mean anything, there will be more bad games because there are more games being produced (with a focus on making money).

>>725032479
Should be the default for most turn-based games desu, I think the only one I can think of that does it and isn't a roguelike is moonring

>>725032607
Arco does it

>>725031330 (OP)
Post this in /rlg/ to induce several strokes by anger.

>>725031823
This is absolutely damning.

>>725031330 (OP)
Isnt he that boring faggot that fauna/nimi gets wet for.

Only good rougelike I played was noita. Game devs forgot it isn't the "rogue" gameplay elements that make a game good, it's the actual game.

>>725031330 (OP)
who's this guy and why do i see him everywhere all of a sudden

>>725031615
He's too up his own ass because he's the smartest person in the room when everyone else is a twitch chatter

Thanks for reminding me that the Monster Train 2 update is today

>>725031615
Buried under the layers NL is a great guy. He's cucked to hell and back by his atrocious wife. He's cucked to just hell by self censoring to not get corporate canceled. He's cucked to purgatory by self censoring to not get woke canceled.

On a serious note, his self hatred shtick is really sad. He denigrates all men and himself included designating them to be sacrifices at the altar of superior women. He shies away from challenge and failure with excuses that there is an invisible hierarchy of respectable tasks. Despite tacitly admitting that all activities are frivolous, but he can't help himself to moralize HIS decisions.

Somewhere there is a reality where he never gets married or marries even just a pleasant to be around woman. That version of NL would mold culture around himeself rather than being molded by it.

>>725033046
what does it change? i stopped caring about that game when they started nerfing every boss because redditors complained they were too hard

>>725032087
nothing is killing roguelikes either because the people who play them pretty clearly people who try to talk to about roguelites as if they were roguelikes to fuck right off and stop being a spastic nigger. not to mention that there is a significant amount of overlap between the people who play roguelikes and people who are capable of making roguelikes, far higher than most other genres.
the fact that some of the most popular and influential roguelikes are just 1 guys game and its a lot like books where it doesn't really matter how much shit you dislike that gets released, there are always people writing what they like and you can read their shit since you can do it solo and its easy to distribute.

I love ToME, and it literally is just 1 guy, sure there are some people who contribute code to some of the open source engine parts and gets ideas from other, but it is just 1 dudes game. you can't really stop 1 autist just making their game

>>725033161
>he is a great guy even though he made every wrong decision imaginable and would basically support you getting sent to to the gas chambers if he gained social status from it

>>725032009
A true shame, but NL is not interested enough in deckbuilders to do well in chrono ark anyways. He doesn't have the willpower to actually care about what cards he plays, he has the ability of course.

>>725031330 (OP)
devs that are too lazy or scared to make a complete game with a definitive ending so they just make a handful of bosses and slap roguelike elements onto it so you get the worst of both worlds

>>725033254
I did say in my post that roguelites haven't really killed roguelikes, just drowned them out

>>725033382
>would basically support you getting sent to to the gas chambers if he gained social status from it
This is based

>>725033254
You say that like ToME isn't dead.

>>725033550
>being a spineless fuck with no conviction/morality is based because...i hate libs or something

>>725031330 (OP)
i like deadcells and frogcomposband

>>725033504
yes you absolutely did anon
I just wanted to add that roguelikes are not going to die either, no matter how big roguelites get or even if they die or whatever happens to them.

>>725033161
He doesn't even watch sports, he gets all his information from fantasy leagues. He's an actual autist trying to fit in with normies for some insane reason.

>>725033643
keep melting down

>>725033192
Two new bosses and a bunch of new artifacts, I think there's other stuff too

>>725031556
why doesnt this game ever go on sale?

>>725031330 (OP)
>Vampire Survivors
>Rogue-X
LMAO. That's a fucking kiting simulator, not a random map generator.

>>725031368
Good. Likes are fucking stupid.

>>725033382
I don't judge people for the decisions they make as young adults. Those foundational decisions can mold you into something perverse over time as a consequence of the environment you find yourself in. I guess to elaborate on "great guy" I would be very curious to see what a truly unfiltered NL would output. Imagine uncensored notes app NL.

>>725033673
I remember him bringing up to his chat something to the effect of "you should follow a sport if you've never thought of it because it's fun" as if the average normalfag doesn't already follow whatever sport is popular wherer they live, it's so strange to see him imitate normgroids but fail at it

>>725033626
yeah pretty sure DG went fucking insane and lost land will never come out.
but who knows, it isn't as if I need tome to get a new expansion this year, next year, or even the year after. I am not in a rush.

>>725033658
Fair enough

>>725031615
I remember him skipping the elden ring dlc because it was "too much" or something and instead played balatro for the 5,000th hour.

>>725033702
>i'll just hide behind ironic detachment
are you NL or just one of his incel fans

Never heard of this dude, is his gf hot?

>>725033797
he's not a "young adult" lol he's pushing 40

>>725033673
If we're going to psychoanalyze the guy my diagnosis begins and ends with his cunt wife. NL's problems all stem from a lack of respect.

It goes back further than Kate, NL was never popular with women growing up. It was a huge sore spot for him as a young adult, which is totally normal and near universal shared male experience unless you were top 5% attractive. Now add his IQ gap to that and he was even further alienated. Of course he wasn't an omega incel, but he wasn't successful either. Humans are creatures and the biologic compulsion to breed is a hell of a drug on the mind. It can make you feel like a total failure despite succeeding in every other metric.

Kate comes along and fills in that hole. But the baggage she comes with is not worth the squeeze. He now has crippling levels of not feeling respected by his retarded wife and her psychotic, bug status obsessed, extended family. All the performative normie fitting in behavior stems from trying to prove he is worthy of respect from those closest to him. It's really sad to see honestly.

>>725033161
>his self hatred shtick is really sad. He denigrates all men and himself included designating them to be sacrifices at the altar of superior women. He shies away from challenge and failure with excuses that there is an invisible hierarchy of respectable tasks. Despite tacitly admitting that all activities are frivolous, but he can't help himself to moralize HIS decisions.
NL literally only gives genuine responses to questions about movies, music, and pop culture from 2005 and earlier. Likewise, he's pretty candid about his opinion of sponsored games after the sponsorship ends and twitch in general which is about as authentic as you can expect from someone whose paycheck depends on people continuing to give him those offers. If you think his "all women are queens" shtick is real or that he "shies away from challenge" when he does shit like spending 30+ hours 100% trickshot simulator then you're not grasping the chat-streamer banter he's courting. Outside of his crippling roguelite addiction, he plays games that either his group is foisting upon him and/or games that have a low competitive focus because the backseat chatters become intolerable if he plays anything the slightest bit sweaty.

Kate isn't even that bad aside from being wholely uninteresting and occasionally unintelligable since she speaks twitch english with a gook accent. Chibli and his gay friend that insist on labeling nothing statements problematic (along with their zoomer chatters that cross-pollinate on his streams) are the real blight and you solve 85% of that issue by only watching his solo streams. His semi-ironic peleton shilling used be grating but he's pulled back on that this year.

>>725031330 (OP)
Developers nerfing all the powerful builds is the main reason. If you don't allow me to have fun then I will not buy your game.

>>725033972
He spawned a kid with a harpy. He's locked into this mode of being for two decades minimum. He was a young adult when he made the decisions that lead him to where he is now.

I wonder if twitch streamers feel any sort of guilt for how responsible they are for this. It is literally one to one for how the current state of AAA games are caused by trying to appeal to soulless shareholders, the current state of indie games being "what if current popular (usually roguelike) thing but in as different dimension/genre" are directly caused by trying to appeal to twitch streamers. Faggots like Northernlion are responsible for this.

>>725034747
Why would they feel guilty? They're just marketing organs, playing whatever slop is sponsored

Killing?

>>725032405
>the genre's more successful than ever
More people playing than ever before. And the masses aren't known for having refined tastes.

>>725031330 (OP)
>Everybody copying the same general formats (deck builders and twin stick shooters)
>mechanical bloat makes it too annoying to evaluate what could be good or bad so you just stick to the same builds
>runs that are too long
I started playing Chrono Ark the other day and between the full screen length paragraphs of effects on every card and boss mechanic every run takes like a fucking hour.

>>725033161
He's not a chud LMAO. He likes Hasan and Ludwig and has 0 need to self censor.

>>725031330 (OP)
healthiest genre actually

>>725031615
Not really. He's kind of a bigheaded shithead who constantly talks down to his chat. An egotistic hipster that becomes extremely grating if he isn't streaming alongside someone else.

never listen to a bald guy, scummiest people on the planet next to j--s

>>725035196
the fuck is your problem with jehova's witnesses?

>>725034558
>which is about as authentic as you can expect from someone whose paycheck depends on people continuing to give him those offers
You have the power dynamic backwards. His paycheck comes from viewers not sponsored games. NL was and unfortunately still is a kingmaker. NL was responsible for foisting trash like balatro onto us all. His sincere lack of interest in even playing games is a major problem when retards like you download his opinions. It's hilarious that you think backseating should even factor into this at all. All it would take is like 2 streams of banning backseaters on sight to fix that. Other streams and streamers with near comparable size audiences (6k-4k range) can wrangle their chat to eliminate the backseat bogeyman.

At the end of the day he's just not interested in video games anymore for a large variety of reasons. Literally the only game I've seen him actually play and get sucked into engaging with the gameplay was Nightreign.

I'm not saying he is a journo level of cancer on game tastemaking, but he is damn near close. Especially for how much power he wields and then squanders it on utter trash.

slop like hades and cult of the lamb

>>725034674
doesnt he have a hot jap wife? sounds like he won to me

>>725034929
Before Chuds and woke there was 00's millennials. We laughed at meatspin, called everything gay, and still voted for fags to be able to marry each other because who gives a fuck? That's what I want released, not some petty vindictive reactionary chud/woke culture warrior, the irreverent troll zeitgest that only cares about something being funny.

>>725035398
I think it's funny that backseating only became a problem a few years ago because streamers got too self conscious about relying on their viewers for everything. In the old days, you just made a video telling people to not tell you shit, and most of the time they would obey. Now you have to deliberately set rules that any comment giving you advice is on the same level as typing a personalized insult towards your whole character.

>>725035454
>he doesn't know

>>725033161
It’s the exact opposite, buried under the layers he’s a piece of shit

>>725031330 (OP)
It's me

>>725035812
It's really not that deep. You just knight some turbo simps to shoot shit on sight for free. Sycophants love being able to power trip. It's a self solving problem for zero effort involved.

It became a popular meme genre like survival craft. When this happens, you inevitably get games that are roguelikes not because it's actually important to their vision of the game, but simply because its popular, this makes the game feel fake and gay, and soon these fake and gay games drown out the geniune ones

>>725035719
Yeah this is something zoomers kind of feel about millennials but don’t understand. It’s why the millennial aura is “off” to them. Every single millennial male made fun of homosexuals for the majority of their lives

>>725031615
He's moderately entertaining which is enough for me to sometimes click on his videos.

>>725034504
what's the QRD on Kate? he hardly talks about her

>>725036083
the qrd is stop talking about e-celebs you gossiping housewife

>>725031330 (OP)
>normal indie dev: I really love games I'd like to think of some interesting mechanics and make my own.
>roguelike dev: I really love money I'd like to think of a way to make money

tldr:
derivative cash-grab streamer-bait

>>725035719
Take me back

>>725035398
>His paycheck comes from viewers not sponsored games. NL was and unfortunately still is a kingmaker.
You are defeating your own point. His money comes from his audience. His audience is the “kingmaker” not him. You are feeding the myth that streamers actually create the zeitgeist rather than chase it for money.

It’s a misconception.

>>725031330 (OP)
They are unplayable pieces of shit that waste the player's time

>>725036262
Hey retard, why does the audience show up? It sure as hell isn't for the trash games he plays.

>>725035812
seeing streamers complain about backseating and then their example is someone telling them in detail something, which is fair and valid.... but in the clip they are also explicitly asking said thing and then someone tells them, so I don't really understand what they would expect if they ask a question and then it gets answered.
It is such a crazy overreaction they have when its their own fault.

>>725036452
See, you have shit backwards again. He plays what will give him views. It’s exactly why he never finished nightreign: it gave him less views. It’s why he won’t play hades 2: it has shit viewership numbers

>>725034929
He seems a bit disingenuous about his relationship with the biggest streamers, pretty sure he's just keeping it cordial to maximize profit. The man tried to get off the content creator train a while back before he really blew up so I believe he's pretty level headed about that stuff.
Think he was pretty centrist or admitted to some such political thoughts years ago and he still pokes fun at the furries hyper leftist audience every now and again.

>>725035398
>His paycheck comes from viewers not sponsored games.
He does sponsored streams so at least part of his revenue comes from that.
>NL was responsible for foisting trash like balatro onto us all.
Balatro wasn't sponsored and was being pushed by more streamers than just him at the start, Ludwig being the big one. Aside from that, let's just look at the scenario: a guy streams himself playing a game he enjoys and that are some of the most popular streams he's done. This isn't some agenda he's pushing. What's the issue?
>His sincere lack of interest in even playing games is a major problem when retards like you download his opinions.
He plays what he enjoys playing and has an interest in dedicating time to understand. The medium isn't owed him playing shit other than deckbuilder slop. NL didn't log into your Steam acccount and buy Balatro. Be a free thinker and choose not to buy slop. I watched one Balatro stream and managed to both not buy it and decide the game looked like shit. It's not hard to vote with your wallet. Moreover, who tf watches NL for gameplay? The ongoing joke is that he's perpetually shit at most games and stumbles into success in spite of that. His best content on average are nothing meme games like Agreeeeee/Password Game or the dles.
>It's hilarious that you think backseating should even factor into this at all. All it would take is like 2 streams of banning backseaters on sight to fix that.
You don't get the vibe of the stream then. He engagementfarms by chastising those people in an exaggerated manner. Banning them changes the chat dynamic because then mods get trigger happy and it signals that streamer is not supposed to be challenged at all which prevents those interactions from happening.

They should make a h-game rougelite. Just long enough for a decent session and then when you get bored and only return a month later you're not completely lost as to the plot or gameplay.
Would pair well with corruption games since the fall is the fun and once the girls a whore I don't care anymore.

>>725035398
You can't stop backseaters they will always pop up. I find streamers who are insane anti-backseaters are more annoying than the actual backseating. I see a lot of streamers who are absolutely adamant about no help and then will get stuck on random bullshit and bash their head into the wall for an hour while chat is bored out of their minds.

Then someone will accidentally think out loud in the chat about something that might work (they have no idea either) and the whole chat goes nuts to be the first simp to post THE RULES and get them banned. retards

>>725037109
>He plays what he enjoys playing
This is not true. Every single streamer is disingenuous and plays what makes them money.

>>725035812
>>725036591

streamers have always had an "issue" with backseating. I can remember picrel throwing absolute fits about it almost every stream and this is just after the JTV era.

Which is socially retarded.
>Do [ACTIVITY] socially with 1000 other people
>Expect people to not talk about [ACTIVITY]
imagine the autism.

>>725037263
Kek. Man quit streaming because of it I think? I remember enjoying his Nioh streams, even though he got extremely mad over the back seating.

>>725037365
That man was mega drugged up anon I’m pretty sure he quit streaming because of that

>>725037263
>want to experience a game for the first time
>some retards constantly shout the perfect strategies and cheeses for bosses at you

>>725031615
I like the librarian videos on youtube. Don't care what anybody else thinks.

>>725037238
You can absolutely establish a line between the two extremes of a free for all and your entire chat freaking out and dogpiling every backseat comment. All it takes is the streamer not/barely feeding into talking about backseating at all and mods sniping comments. The reason people say "chat reflects the streamer" is because chat discusses what the streamer draws attention to.

>>725033161
Listen, I watch NL because he’s funny, but it’s like Larry David. Yeah, he’s funny, and societal expectation keeps him in check, but at his core he’s a deeply evil person.

>>725035196
HES BALD?!

The best one just came out.

>>725035196
This is actually true, throughout history no superb individual has ever been bald

>>725035951
>you inevitably get games that are roguelikes not because it's actually important to their vision of the game, but simply because its popular, this makes the game feel fake and gay,
Noita in a nutshell.
>make cool physics engine and ways to manipulate it
>make tons of obscure puzzles in a fairly vast open world
>hurr durr slap roguelite formula on it

kek

>>725037563
yeah if all they do is keep asking questions about something and then getting upset when people answer it, they need to stop phrasing things as a question and make them a statement.
there is such a big difference between
>I don't know what to do here
>should I try X? or Y?
>I just can't figure it out

vs

>I don't know what to do here
>We will try X and if that doesn't work Y
>Otherwise I don't have and more ideas and we will need to see what happens then

one is asking questions and trying to get people to answer you, the other is just directly talking through their thoughts and setting exceptions. the problem is that streamers are constantly trying to bait people into engaging and talking so they do it even when they really should not do it then complain it happens.

>>725036968
He's the biggest fucking lib/neolib stereotype ever. Literally everyone he interacts with is a hard lib or commie, aside from Dan Gheesling (who claimed to be a conservative like 2 decades ago, but he doesn't really talk about politics).

>>725031330 (OP)
>garbage genre for retards is dying
Thank god you idiots finally ran out of money to buy this crap.

>you come across the most weak, hyper-specific, useless stat/ability/whatever of all time
>some guy who sank thousands of hours into the game argues that it's busted and actually has insane scaling
my experience with this genre

>>725037365
>>725037537
yeh drugs and i think he eventually realized, he was in the business of "commodifying" fake e-friendship. He apparently grew to resent the entire business model which is somewhat respectable at least.
But he ruined so many of his streams by getting pissy at people in chat, never learned how to cope with random people saying things he didn't like.

>>725037550
>want to experience a game alone
>beg thousands of strangers to come over to your house and watch you play
maybe they should just make a youtube video. People have been spoiling probably since the second caveman story was communicated over a campfire, its just struggling against the inevitable.

>>725037254
If his stream doesn't say #sponsored under it, NL is playing what he enjoys. He fucking streams himself playing crossword puzzles. If chat was the arbiter of what he plays he would still be playing SAP and every other stream would be Isaac.

>>725033752
It does, chew your steak slowly

>>725037238
Especially the ones who go on about self control in not "backseating" but don't have the ability to not ask rhetorical questions every minute.
Or those who read messages out loud and then pick fights with chat.

>>725038137
Not even close to true.
>he streams crossword puzzles
For money.

He does everything for money. He’s not your friend. He’s not “normal”.

>>725038137
This is true anon, every single “content creator” always chases the dollar. It’s always about the algorithm, it’s always about viewers, it’s always about money. Enjoyment? The only way it factors into their choice of stream is if it impacts how much money they’ll make. As in, if he bored by a game he feels like he won’t be entertaining = less subs.

It’s why all these streamers end up going insane for the most part. It’s a permanent state of being.

>>725038251
NTA but there's a middleground between full selling out, and acting with 0 motivation for money. If NL was a full sell out he would've played the pick 3 survivorslop game called Megabonk which was huge on Twitch at the time.

>>725032098
only the path to Mother isn't very intuitive. Downpour and Mines doors appear in the boss room, the former with a keyhole for a key and the latter the same wood you blow up to get into Isaac's bedroom. Mausoleum's door you approach it and it takes away a heart, tough luck if you only had one (it's never openly said that Lost enters for free, so there's that). Mother requires you to teleport out of Mom's bossrom and give away the polaroid/negative

>>725031556
learn how to find secret rooms

>>725038251
>mfw Big NYT docks my pay after I lambasted them for paywalling crosswords for the 15th time this month

>>725038460
I’m not saying he’s full sell out. NL is smart enough to know that full sell out is a business risk anyways. The other thing is the big fomo, FOTM style games are actually hit or miss viewership wise. When stuff really blows up it usually gets saturated in waves, where you could end up streaming in the trough. Also look at it this way some people don’t want to watch the new fotm, so the regularly scheduled content is always evergreen.

But what I am saying is it’s always about money.

Think about it. What games do you like? What hobbies do you have in your spare time? Imagine there was a dollar sign attached to each activity. Yeah some days you don’t choose the highest dollar activity, but it’s always there, it’s always a factor in your thought process, it changes how you think.

>>725031556
Get that mod that lets you teleport to rooms of the floor you already have explored

>>725038101
>But he ruined so many of his streams by getting pissy at people in chat
Lol, yeah. I once joined his chat and said I was happy he was playing a game cause I had just finished it and it was good. Saw my message and told me directly to leave cause he was worried about spoilers for a classic ninja gaiden knock-off. I left and never came back.

>>725037550
Then they shouldn't be a streamer. if you want to play games live with thousands of people (and get paid for it) then you must accept some help and engagement especially when your dumbass is getting stuck constantly.

I once saw a girl streamer forget they picked up a key item an hour ago and proceeded to get hopelessly lost because like most streamers they're barely conscious while playing a game and more involved with reading donations and talking about random bullshit. And when someone in the chat reminded her she freaked out about how she wants to BEAT THE GAME ON HER OWN!!!!! and her mods quickly swooped in.

That retardation is everywhere these days.

Outside of Hades 2 and Monster Train 2, did any really good rougelikes come out this year?

>>725031330 (OP)
>What is killing the roguelike genre?
The culture.

>>725038994
>I once watched several hours of some whore
You are no better than the people you make fun of

>>725031330 (OP)
I agree that non-deckbuilders need to lose the pick 1 of 3 as a default.

>>725039037
I like Nubby but if you don't have autism surrounding a specific era of the internet, then I wouldn't bother.

>>725034929
I doubt NL actually likes Hasan, he probably was just friendly to him before all the terrorist propaganda stuff and before he was outed as an animal abuser. NL seems like a decent guy and he has pets of his own, so I doubt he is still friendly with Hasan.

>>725038814
He’s explicitly stated this, he thinks ER Nightrein is actually one of the best games of the year and doesn’t play it because the viewership is dogshit.

>>725031330 (OP)
Oversaturation killed them. Look at new games on steam and you'll see a billion garbage roguelikes. Easier to shit out a "roguelike" then a full game with real progression and difficulty curve. Easier to keep the adhd riddled brains stuck to the game with roguelike mechanics as well.
It'll die out eventually and then come back.

>>725039037
Nightreign kinda? Maybe not "really good", but it was pretty good for like 20-40 hours.

>>725031330 (OP)
>What is killing the roguelike genre?
roguelikes.

>>725031615
Honestly no
His topics are boring as fuck and his sense of humor is often cringe as hell. And anything he does with his friends is automatically shit
But he is a pretty witty guy on occasion for sure
Although I am super tired of his infinite strawmen and arrogance. When you have a room of people sucking your dick 24/7 it's hard not to become an insufferable dickhead I suppose, but it does make him unbearable to watch nowdays

>>725039139
Take out the word girl if that helps your autism.

>>725031615
He's jewish, at least spiritually

>>725039746
You're still watching streamers while crying about streamers. But no, I won't ignore the fact you simp for streamer whores

>>725031330 (OP)
Their obsession with perks/builds. Classic rougelikes were all about procedurally generated dungeons and loot. Struggling to survive with whatever resources you could gather. Modern "roguelikes' just slap upgrade perks everywhere and your run dies unless you end up with an OP build. Shit sucks.

>>725033382
>would basically support you getting sent to to the gas chambers if he gained social status from it
There is nothing wrong with wishing death on people you do not like or who mildly inconvenience you

>>725039765
wtf is this real?

>>725039804
>You're still watching streamers while crying about streamers.
You have to watch to know if they're bad or worth watching. You are in a streamer thread the difference between me and you is I'm honest.

>>725039765
hes married to an ugly brown woman isnt he

>>725040073
I'm in a roguelike thread, zoomer

>>725033161
His cute ass wife is the only thing I don't hate about him.

>>725040132
No you're not.

>Killing
Don't these print money?

>>725031330 (OP)

Low budgets
Subpar graphical design
Increasingly higher difficulty
Gimmicky gameplay that isn't deep
Barely planned out incomplete games

Why the hell would i ever waste money on that.

pick 3

>>725035454
She's is korean and mid at best
Her most appealing trait is that she is a weeb that would fit in on old 4chan, but NL doesnt like that thing himself so I dont know what she sees in him

>>725040242
>so I dont know what she sees in him
money and hapa children

>>725031330 (OP)
Only giant faggots are making them and it's always some cartoony quirk-chungus bullshit.
This is a problem with the entire medium at the moment.

>>725031615
>Chat brings up a good point which challenges NL's
>NL waxes philosophically in such a way that it requires chat to give a long ass reply which 100% will get buried under the endless +2
Pretty funny when he does that
Besides that however, kinda boring.

>>725031330 (OP)
After playing Isaac for 800hrs, I just don't find the others rogue like/lite fun.

>>725031330 (OP)
I don't know but it can't die fast enough

>>725034579
Fromsoft nerfing fun builds is why I stopped buying their games too.
If you like video games to be bullshit hard, you're retarded and gay. No exceptions.

>>725040461
Play actually good rougelikes like Slay the Spire and Risk of Rain

>>725035159
>He's kind of a bigheaded shithead who constantly talks down to his chat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJQcUUha2NQ
They deserve it

>>725040046
yes, he and Dan made a bet with themselves that they would win a BR or else they'd have to do the fortnite dance and post it and they lost the bet

>>725040110
close, an annoying korean woman

>>725037779
Jeff Bezos basically owns you. He is also a nice guy if you aren't poor or mentally ill.

>>725040267
And what he sees in her is that she is the second woman to ever touch his penis I suppose

>>725031330 (OP)
Nothing, yet.
The roguelike bubble popping is what will kill them, though.

>>725039206
Eh, r/lsf/destiny/h3h3 doesn't seem to have that much influence. Hasan was cheered at in NYC last night.

>>725031615
when he was a youtuber and wasn't rich

>>725031330 (OP)
>What is killing the roguelike genre?
Nothing really? I feel people are just getting fatigued which is perfectly fine when there are so many rougelikes to play. I usually separate them into how much time I want to put into them per session.
>Less than an hour?
Nuclear Throne, Balatro, Vampire Survivors
>One to two hours?
Binding of Isaac, Spelunky, Risk of Rain
>More than two hours?
Noita, FTL, Hades

>>725031330 (OP)
absolum and ballxpit are both really good and presumably sold well

>>725035719
>and still voted for fags to be able to marry each other
This is a flat out lie. Even Commiefornia voted to ban gay marriage.

The issue with rougelikes is that every one of them requires that you grind it but you cant tell beforehand if its is worth it
And many devs make them to save the effort of making a real game i.e. they make roguelikes not because it is their strength and their vision but because it is the easiest
Which naturally leads to shit games
The concept is no longer novel so you have to actually make a good roguelike for it to succeed and since 95% of indies are shit that means the genre as a whole is dogshit now that the market has been flooded with shit-tier games you have to sift through

>>725040720
It's literally the entire internet clowning on him, dude. Also, wasn't he barred from even entering the afterparty? Mamdani clearly doesn't want to be seen with Hasan anymore. On a side note, it's kind of crazy to me how some leftists are actually okay with animal abuse now. Like, he objectively did shock his dog for daring to move around a bit after sitting in one place for 4 hours. That's not some right wing talking point, that happened live on stream and was captured in 4k.

>>725039206
oy vay

>>725031330 (OP)
Honestly I never understood that genra.
You just waste time till you get good RNG.
Roguelites give you progress but it's pointless illusion progress, cus you should start from having max everything.

It's like MMO but in single player. Everyone wants to play endgame and you need to waste tons of time to do so. In MMO was social aspect but nowadays it dies too.

>>725031330 (OP)
Let me guess, the literally who fails to mention a single actual roguelike.

>>725031330 (OP)
It's the generic cheap genre for generic cheap indies who are looking for a quick buck, so there 1000000000 throwaway rogueLITES for every 1 good one. But the good ones are often really good so it's worth picking through the mess.

>>725031615
He's been shit since he started streaming full time.
Parasocial freaks on Twitch made him too arrogant and now he just plays browser games and has fags in chat tell him they want to suck his dick all day because he has basic worldliness.

>>725039982
Except that's not even the reason, he would send you to the gas chambers because the retards in his audience would think it's hecking wholesome and cool, not even because he especially believes in it

>>725041180
The classical meaning of rougelike is dead. Words change over time, and no matter how much you cope and seethe things aren't going to revert back to the way they were.

>>725040720
Didn't even the giga fence sitters like Charlie and Ludwig turn on Hasan though and called out his animal abuse? No way anyone who isn't part of his tiny LA circle would tarnish their reputation by associating with Hasan these days.

>>725041437
Sounds like you need to consult the chart again.

>>725041073
>That's not some right wing talking point
It is though
>But it actually happened!
So what?

>>725031615
I put him on while I work from home. He has a few good bits here and there.

>>725036083
She had Mayo Fever and basically hunted him down and claimed him after a few messages on X-Box Live chat before he was famous.

>>725031330 (OP)
Roguelites are killing roguelikes.
What kills roguelites is fucking tiered rarity on skills/items. Shit’s stupid and kills 90% of the fun. Was Hades I the first offender?

>>725041480
>copes and seethes
I didn't say I liked it. It's just a reality of life. Words are used to communicate, and you are the one failing to communicate if you don't use the word in the way everyone else understands it.

>>725041657
Everyone else being wrong about something does not change what a fact is.

>>725041073
>It's literally the entire internet clowning on him, dude.
So?
>>725041457
Cr1tikal and Ludwig are about as relevant as Asmongold is. They are just barometers of what an ever decreasing subset of the population thinks about anything

>survivors clone
>early access
>updates take fucking forever
what causes this? death must die almost feels like a scam at this point

>>725041731
The meaning of words are literally just what society understands them to mean. They are defined by culture, not the cosmos. If you use words outside of how they are understood, then you fail to understand the purpose of language at a fundamental level.

Under your logic, every word you use that has changed over time is an incorrect usage of the word. You would be just as much of a fool as everyone else.

>>725041987
Ludwig flip flopped on the issue but ultimately sided with Hasan anyway.

>>725042237
I wonder if it's because Ludwig had enough foresight to think that the whole dog drama thing was a bit overblown. Like every other white couple I see with dogs have them in vibration/shock collars and nobody gives a fuck.

>>725041180
>roguelike.png
And here we can observe an actual answer OP's question: crippling autism of roguelikes' audience is what's killing roguelikes.
They want to play exactly the same game, so there is no point in even trying to make anything new — roguelike audience will ignore it and go back to playing ~40 y/o Nethack.

>>725033254
yea

>>725031330 (OP)
>Slop Survivors

>>725042516
The other part of the argument is that Hasan had his dog sitting in a corner for like 2+ hours to just act like a prop. He zapped it for *daring* to even move. That's not normal.

>>725042516
>Like every other white couple I see with dogs have them in vibration/shock collars and nobody gives a fuck.
I'm sure you would never go on the internet and just lie about shit to back up your weak opinion, but sounds like bullshit.

Also every other white pet owner is not shocking their dog for moving around after 4 hours.

>>725034917
lmao

>>725042516
>It's no big deal man, everyone does it!
Then why did he try to lie and say it *wasn't* a shock collar...?

>>725042516
>Like every other white couple I see with dogs have them in vibration/shock collars
Don't know about that, being cruel to animals is generally a brown people thing.

>>725031330 (OP)
Shit items and really overpowered items. Every roguelike I played is just retrying until you get good items and win without trying.

>>725042013
Society happens to be wrong in this case.
>>725042561
I never said I disliked any of the games with the "roguelite" label. Calling them roguelikes is simply not accurate is all.

>>725043342
>Society happens to be wrong in this case
That's not how words work retard. You still don't get it. They can't be wrong because words are fundamentally defined by how people use them. The fact that you can't understand this shows how much of a brainlet you actually are.

>>725031330 (OP)
>What is killing the roguelike genre
People are noticing roguelike games are shit and the concept is garbage to begin with.
Plus, almost like a third of indies are roguelikes, another third are metroidvanias and the rest are everything else, at some point people will start getting bored of playing the same thing over and over.

Damn

>>725043496
>bro you need to just accept the majority view! you aren't allowed to disagree because that's how words work bro!
People like you are the reason language is degrading.

>>725031330 (OP)
The only thing negative affecting rougelikes is autistic label faggots
>erm...acktshully that's a roguelite, because it's not a 100% recreation of rogue, everyone knows the word like means a complete one to one copy and sharing similar elements.

>>725043621
>another third are metroidvanias
There are 19,329 games tagged with roguelike on steam, and only 3,318 games tagged with metroidvania. Roguelikes are waaaaay more overstaurated.

>>725043713
That IS how language works though, faggot. Yes, it's frustrating while it happens, but it is unavoidable and it is how languages have been working since the dawn of time. Going against the grain in this specific case is retarded because languages are fundamentally founded on the concept of communicated though common understand of definitions.

>>725043970
>communicated though common understand of definitions
I had a stroke. "communicating though common understandings of definitions"

>>725042750
>>725042781
>>725042836
>>725042959
While I for one don't think he did anything particularly wrong. The greater deal here is that the commentator matrix that comprises of say Turkey Tom, Destiny, Asmongold, Cr1tikal and other such faggots seems to be dwindling in influence. All of their views seem to be somewhat on a downturn as well outside of the moist man.

>>725042013
>>725043496
Thats not a desired feature though its an inherent weakness of certain languages
Which makes it very difficult if not impossible to pass down valuable traditions, culture, and information through the years as the language itself changes over time, often in unpredictable, undesirable or unintended ways.

Language adoption is also a grey area. Even if the "majority" decide to change language, there can be a minority who refuse to. That group cannot be disregarded just because the majority are using it in a new way.
And there's plenty of examples of a minority being more qualified than the majority. Would you let the average joe perform heart surgery on you?
There's probably plenty of times a doctor or other specialist uses certain language differently than a normal person. I don't think they need to change their use of the language to accommodate the lowest common denominator.

>>725039831
Youre a legit retard, roguelikes want to make your runs viable nearly no matter what, that's why they are more popular. they're more casual, easier.
I played brogue and rift wizard. RNG is 500 million times more of a run killer. you get a good seed or you die. there is barely skill expression. roguelikes are harder and also shittier. you just play a preplanned route decided by the pc for X runs until you get a good seed.

>>725031330 (OP)
because the entire genre is just a dopamine skinnerbox meant to get you addicted for 1000 hours despite each game having barebones content

>>725033161
chatgpt wrote this post

>>725031368
Kek FPBP
Also to add
>what’s killing Roguelites
Too many metaprogression mechanics

>>725044113
>roguelikes want to make
roguelites*
I'm tired.

>>725041457
>Ludwig
>fence sitter
>turned on Hasan
Pretending to be a fence sitter and being a fence sitter are two different things.
If someone said "well this serial killer that killed 72 children has his own story to tell and I think we should listen to him" you wouldn't be calling them a fence sitter you'd be calling them a fucking psycho or a psycho sympathizer. This is what Ludwig does to commies and racist terrorists.
Also Hasan is very much still a big part of his life and will be regardless of any deflections Ludwig makes. If both of their streaming careers ended they'd definitely hang out with each other all the time considering qtcinderella loves Hasan, and I think Ludwig still loves Hasan too.

>>725043342
>I never said I disliked any of the games with the "roguelite" label.
I never claimed you dislike them though. What I've said is that you won't acknowledge those games. Which you can't really argue about. And if 0% of new games are considered roguelikes by you then it means the genre is dead.

I can't tell sometimes if maybe I'm the weird one for not wanting to gossip about eceleb's private lives and whatever lastest faggy drama they're in. I feel like I'm on a board full of old spinsters sometimes. Am I gonna end up like this if I don't get a wife and knock her up?

Low effort entries flooding the genre. Same thing that happened to videogames as a whole awhile back which lead to Nintendo adding a seal of approval to their products as some form of guarantee. Enjoy the Roguelike crash.

>>725043848
To be fair, I don't like either genre and avoid them like the plague, so I wouldn't have really known either way.

>>725044184
He won’t acknowledge those games (as Roguelikes) because they aren’t bwo

>>725044184
I do not consider those games to be in the "roguelike" genre is all. The genre isn't dead, it's niche. I have no desire to change a genre to make it more appealing to the masses.

>>725044084
>Thats not a desired feature though its an inherent weakness of certain languages
No it is not desirable, but it is inevitable. You use hundreds of words that have changed over time. How are those not incorrect usages either?

>minority vs majority
Your analogies completely fail here because language is fundamentally intertwined with the majority. Words are LITERALLY defined by how people use them. It's not about appealing to the "lowest common denominator", it's that language can literally ONLY work if the majority understands their meaning. Y

>>725043675
>>725043794
>Stops being on popular collab stream
>Views drop
This is news how?

>>725044059
>While I for one don't think he did anything particularly wrong.
you are incorrect, but you should be used to this by now.
>The greater deal here is
I'm really sorry you know so much information about those e-celebs. But they do not matter at all, the mob would find someone else to follow if they stop being popular.

>>725031330 (OP)
The fact no one is actually making roguelikes anymore, and the few roguelikes that I did enjoy got taken over and turned into dogshit like Stone Soup's obsession for speedrun balance

I won’t stop shilling Demon until it’s popular go play it it’s free

>>725031615
Hangs around too many chapo traphouse listeners when he could be with based Dan Gheesling.

>>725040567
>Risk of Rain
1 or 2?
>Slay the Spire
Deck builder isn't really my thing. But I've heard a lot of good things about the game.

>>725043848
>to be fair....
Nigger you were the one acting like an expert. Why wpuld confidentially lists stats you made up if you don't actually know what you are talking about? Fucking dipshit.

>>725044392
>Views drop
going from 2000 to 90 and still declining is a really big drop though

>>725042013
irregardlessly you understanded him
it is uninevadible

>>725031556
make sure you chew slowly and enjoy the ride

>>725031330 (OP)
>number must go up
>trends cannot die
who gives a shit

>>725044839
If I heard a normal person say "roguelike" in a casual conversation I would assume they are talking about the modern definition. So no, I wouldn't understand him, and most people wouldn't either. If you word things in a way most people will misinterpret, YOU are the one failing to communicate, The entire purpose of communication is to say words in a way that make people understand your ideas.

One day the linguistic prescriptivism vs descriptivism debates in these threads will end and we'll miss these days.

>>725044352
>Words are LITERALLY defined by how people use them.
Right, and if I am a specialist in a certain area, or a part of a distinct subculture, and use language in the most accurate way to me, I will not change my usage based on the layman's opinion.
So it doesn't necessarily have to be the global majority, but perhaps the majority of whatever specific circles you are communicating in.
Basically I don't even think the type of person who is strict about "roguelike" often wants to interact with or fit in with the type of person who plays Megabonk. So they don't have to adapt their language or even be friendly about it.

>>725045263
This is a thread about modern roguelikes though, so you are in fact using the word in a way the people in this thread will misintrpret. You are still misreading the room under your own reasoning

I don't give a FUCK what some rich streamer faggot from canada has to say about games

Are roguelites the ones where you have to lose the game for several attempts to unlock the good item drops and then get to completely steamroll the game?
Because I kinda dislike those, they use this shit as a crutch

>>725046315
Yeah using the traditional definitions, roguelites have metaprogession where you can unlock shit for later runs. Roguelikes don't.

>>725046315
That's a mechanic introduced by hades that others have copied. It is not a core feature of roguelikes

>>725031615
Liked him until he threw everyone under the bus and cancelled the NLSS, then he started pandering hard to twitch zoomers and twitters and is a shadow of its former self.

>>725046508
>roguelites have metaprogession where you can unlock shit for later runs.
this isn't necessarily true. There are plenty of roguelites that don't do this. It was just a dumb mechanic popularized by hades so that normies always feel a sense of "progression"

>>725046615
Most roguelites do but the main point is roguelikes don't.

>>725031368
fpbp.
There have not been any games like rogue released in 20+ years

>>725046681
No one gives a shit about classic roguelikes.

>>725046315
Roguelikes are top down grid based RPGs with simultaneous turns controlling in a fashion similar to Rogue, an old freeware game
Roguelites are games that try to translate the mechanics of Roguelikes into other genres. Them using metaprogresion (die/clear challenges to unlock shit) is largely because of the popularity of TBOI

>>725046615
It got popular way before Hades. For example Rogue Legacy had very thick meta progression back in 2013.

>>725046767
>still trying to convince people
you aren't changing culture my dude.

>>725046615
>popularized by hades
nigger isaac already did it, just because you learned of the genre through hades doesn't mean that game was influential. hades didn't innovate in any way

>>725046684
what about qud

>>725031330 (OP)
This board is for ANONYMOUS opinions about VIDEO GAMES!

If you want to advertise your internet boyfriend and his shitty “gaming channel”, you can crawl back to YouTube, Twitch, Xitter, Reddit or whatever shithole you came from, faggot.

>>725031330 (OP)
I really, really, REALLY like Quasimorph.

>>725046836
>buh buh buh language evooooolvesss
So long as the beard on my neck is scratchy you will not soil my genre name with your nigger babble about twin stick shooters being like Nethack

>>725031368
Just name them something else. I swear genre types for games are so fucking stupid because they never properly explain the game and they only hinder expectations. Call them Progression Runners or whatever. They're literally only called Roguelites because some autists out there need everything to be incorrectly labeled and shoeboxed into categories that help no one.

The pick 3 games just aren't fun, they aren't well designed at all.
You aren't walled out in binding of isaac, even if you get bad items you can still win. In post-balatro "rougelites" (there is nothing rogue at all about these games), you're just hoping you get the right synergy in your rerolls or you cannot possibly win.
It's a slot machine. Like gacha, really. I can see why they're so popular right now as everything is just gambling now.

>>725031330 (OP)
/v/ hates these games. Always has. I should know, because I enjoy them and have tried to discuss them here.

>>725031330 (OP)
It's not a genre, though, it's a mechanic you can slap on anything.

>>725031556
Hold r to reset the run like 10 times in a row to unlock the best item in the game

It's insane that it's been like 10+ years and isaac is still the best roguelite of it's kind even though it has a ton of flaws

>>725031330 (OP)
YWNBAR

>>725041180
In the 2010s "rougelike" meant a randomly generated dungeon with random loot and permadeath. It was close, but not the same thing so it was called a "roguelite".
now it means "uh the 3 choices are randomized, that counts right?"

>>725047345
>It's a slot machine. Like gacha, really. I can see why they're so popular right now as everything is just gambling now.
despair inducing statement

>>725047307
>They're literally only called Roguelites because some autists out there need everything to be incorrectly labeled
>incorrectly
No, people call them roguelites because some autists want to accurately distinguish games that are like Rogue. The label is more accurate, but everyone just says roguelike anyway.

Has anyone pointed out in this thread that roguelikes aren't really "Rogue-likes" because they're nothing like the game Rogue yet?

I love that meme.

Yes. My favorite genre is "action roguelike"-likes. How could you tell?

Balatro is a very good game
Balatro also killed roguelites by baiting every up and coming indie dev to make their own roguelitexgambling sim

The back to back success of vampire survivors and balatro damaged the genre immensely

Legit question: why can't his wife speak proper english if she was born in Canada?

>>725049262
I thought she was a mail order bride from korea?

>>725049262
was she born in canada?

>>725049262
Quebecois-ass lookin' ass deer

>>725048707
>baiting every up and coming indie dev to make their own roguelitexgambling sim
slay the spire did that actually, balatro was just one of the successful followers

>>725049262
NLSS wiki says she was born and lived in south korea until age 11

the playerbase
the term means literally nothing

>>725049628
The wiki is wrong.

>>725031615
no. i hate his fake accent. i remember watching his youtube videos a decade ago and he talked normal

>>725049725
>retarded zoomer thinks the youtubevoice(tm) he was doing a decade was his real voice
were you born before or after pewdiepie's letsplay of slender?

>>725047556
A major thing that BoI gets right, and the vast majority of other roguelite games get wrong, is how the items, weapons and environment synergies.
Like, a bomb can be used in a lot of different ways, you can get the ability to create bombs, you can get bomb-weapons, you can get a ton of things that affects how bombs work, etc.
So many things can be used in various ways. There's a coin-operated machine that gives you something. Do you use coins; use enough coins that the machine explodes, hoping for a special item; or blow it up with a bomb? And that all changes if you only have a single bomb, which you're saving for the secret room, or if you have the ability to drop coins when hurt and have a few hearts lying around.
And of course the ways your attacks change when gaining abilities is second to none.
It all turns into this holistic gameplay where every room and item could change the way you approach other aspects of the game. Most roguelites are nowhere near as deep, which makes them less interesting.

>>725050021
he's doing a voice now, whether or not his old voice was real or another fake voice is irrelevant and doesn't refute the point

>>725031330 (OP)
I don't care, but good. 293th post best post.

>>725031556
Two words:
chew slower

>>725031615
I watch him on and off, I think he is funny but he is far better alone than he is with anyone else, including his own chat. Any group stuff he does sucks because his friends suck and sometimes he gets caught up on what someone in his chat says and can't even manage to mine it for humor. Also he is extremely pretentious and obsessive with normality for someone who plays videogames for a living and sometimes it's hard to tell if he is humorously self-aware about it or not.

>>725031330 (OP)
Companies and corporations.

>>725039037
Bollocks pit

>>725044059
>abusing your dog is... le based!
Okay retard

>>725050241
You're correct only if you ignore the DLCs that make every synergy weaker and less common. If you got dr fetus + fire bombs on an old patch it would work exactly how you expect it to. If you get dr fetus + fire bombs on a new patch, you'll get a 5% chance to shoot out a fire bomb that does half the damage of what a fire bomb is supposed to do. This plus flooding every item pool with so many boring ass items that don't synergize with each other in any way. The item pool is disgustingly bloated and you don't see synergies at all anymore.

>>725031330 (OP)
Nothing the genre is kinda saturated but otherwise it's doing fine