Thread 725268768

Why is dungeon crawling so popular

Its not but it should be

>blobbers get a huge resurgence in 2012
>dies again a few years later

I still think about Kings Field IV.

>>725269382
>>blobbers get a huge resurgence in 2012
Thanks to LoG.
LoG died and so is the fad. We need to find those finns, chain them to a wall and force them to make more games.

>>725268768 (OP)
How are the might & magic games, heard good things about IV and V?

>>725268768 (OP)
>Why is dungeon crawling so popular
What are some good dungeon crawlers to start with if i've never played one?

>>725268768 (OP)
>born too late to explore the world
>born too early to explore the galaxy
>born just in time to explore this dark and mysterious cave full of brigands and treasure (digital simulation)
It was only 20 bucks, too.

>>725269789
Legend of Grimrock is an excellent entry point.

>>725269789
Grimoire or Wizardry 7/8

>>725269789
Depends on you tolerance of graphics, difficulty, grind, building autism and preference for either turn-based or real time combat.

>>725269645
I like them

4+5 had a gimmick where they made two standalone games but you can combine them into one big world. It doesn't really add much beyond just playing two games though and it's easy to break the game by getting too much XP and loot from stuff in the second world. MM3 is basically the same game and more coherent.

Lots of (old) people like MM6-7 but I don't get the appeal.

>>725268768 (OP)
It is strangely comforting. Just you, the dungeon, enemies and loot

>>725269928
*they're also not really proper dungeon crawlers honestly, at least after MM2. The dungeons are just features on an overworld; I'd say the balance is similar to something like Skyrim.

>>725268768 (OP)
the male fantasy is to conquer the dungeon

>>725268768 (OP)
Best way to describe it is, it's very fun to play when you have stress and just need to play something to grind your heart out to take your mind off of such issues.

>>725269789
Modern day
>SMT VV, Nocturne, Strange Journey
Classic
>Etrian Odyssey
Interesting and odd but fun.
>Labyrinth Of Galleria
>Undernauts
>Mary Skelter series
Play this only if you are hardcore and love DRPG's
>Labyrinth of Touhou
Like Gacha's or miss Land Of The Forsaken Kingdom
>Wizardry Variants Daphne.

>>725270310
*rolls eyes*

>>725269789
first ones I played were Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder

>>725270310
>slopyrinth of touhou
>"if you are hardcore and love drpgs"
lol. lmao. literally not even a fucking drpg.

>>725269901
>Depends on you tolerance of graphics
I'm super easy on the graphics front, recently played through ultima underworld 1 and 2 and they're probably my all time favourite games now, shocked there hasn't been a decent remaster or remake, and i'd fucking love to play a full on RPG that looks like Daggerfall (Daggerfall is good for what it is, but hand crafted dungeons and more of an overworld and some co-op dungeon crawling with that same art style would be incredible imo). Neither are dungeon crawlers obviously, but both got me interested in the genre.

>>725269861
>>725269896
Sweet i'll check them out.

Don't dungeon walk before you can dungeon crawl.

>>725270835
>ultima underworld 1 and 2
Then your next stop is Arx Fatalis which is basically Underworld 3 and was almost called like that but suits said No.
If you liked artstyle of Underworld then you may enjoy Lands of Lore (in the oppic). I would recommend to save a lot and in different slots, you may softlock yourself like I did.

And yes, Legend of Grimrock games are aboslute masterpieces and LoG was a true GOTY of 2014.

>>725270708
>windows 95 screensaver if he video game

>>725271067
>that webm
Holy soul.

>>725270310
>SMT VV, Nocturne
actual trash

Might and Magic 1 is pretty good. The combat is surprisingly detailed. You can also use Where Are We if you don't want to map.

been playing labyrinth of refrain.
something about exploring dungeons really vibes with me

>>725272198
didn't you already post this webm like two weeks ago?

>was about to start playing my pirated copy of Cryptmaster
>they are making new updates including content updates
At this point it would be easier to buy it on winter sale.

>>725272662
I just really like Might and Magic Book One: The Secret of the Inner Sanctum.

>>725273032
is the nes version of the game good?

>>725273623
Yeah. It's a little slower, but doesn't require mapping, having the manual, or using a full keyboard so it has its perks. The Genesis version of 2 is also recommended if you want to stick to console for the earlier games. After that I'd definitely recommend the PC versions.

>>725273032
These stylized painted maps are pure SOVL.
Millennials would never.

>>725274036
The cool thing is that they're nearly 100% accurate to where things are if you actually grid them out. Pretty cool way of directing the player.

>>725274234
(real) map making has to be one of the best things i love about these games. i miss that from modern games. yes, you can turn the map off from modern games, but they're often linear and not made with map making in mind. there were some cool map puzzles you had to figure out even with the first wizardry games

>>725273032
YOU ARE NOW ENTERING

Lands of Lore had a proto-Dark Souls level

>>725273032
Handdrawn maps with details are the shit. They relaly make you go "Wanna go there, wanna check this out. Dunno wtf this place is but Imma go there when I can".
Ut's almost surreal how many adventure games hold your hand or streamline stuff to the point there's no adventure to be had, you're just a tourist with a guide.

>>725270708
i've never played this game but seen footage and screenshots plenty of times and only now i see those guys in the corner are supposed to be top down view of them, carrying sword and shield. i always thought they were wearing gnome caps and doing this pose.

>>725270771
It's a better DRPG than your favorite DRPG (unless your favorite DRPG is WIzardry 8 in which case I kneel)

>>725276101
What's the point of having these constant generals if the only people in them are a handful of massive shit eaters that never play any more games or learn anything

The dungeon crawler's reputation suggests that a certain degree of stoicism and pragmatism are required of the player to make any progress at all, and that sort of appeals to the aspiring leader in all of us. The appeal of these games lies in the romantic image of the unyielding knight whose will is unbroken by even the most grotesque monstrosities. That's cool and all, but damn, these games aren't fun at all. I bought the Wizardry remake from last year, and I only made it to the fourth level after 6 hours. The amount of grinding you need to do to actually leave a scratch on the roving dragons, ninjas, and amazons is ridiculous. The music was grating, and the constant scrolling of those cobblestone walls were enough to drive me mad. Definitely wish I could get my $40 back.

>>725275887
kek same but I thought they were pirates

>>725268768 (OP)
Exploration + Challenge + Customizing

There's no reason to make your dungeon crawler some casual garbage that everybody can just cruise thru. That excuse works when there's a story, since people are playing the game to see the story and when there's a roadblock, it just interrupts you from reaching the goal. But when the point of the game is exploring a dangerous area, then the area being dangerous is a big part of the point. If you didn't want danger, then just play Myst or another walking sim where there's nothing that can threaten you.

And a lot of these games have some sort of customization so you can play it how you like and try out different styles when replaying. Whether it's using a single character with a skill tree like Diablo or a bunch of characters with different classes like a blobber, there's generally a lot you can do to change or personalize the characters to help you get thru the game.

It was a very cheap way of making games. Nowadays it's for mentally ill people who actually enjoy grinding

Fun fact: it's called a dungeon crawl because it's analogous to a pub crawl.

Recirve your reward!

>>725276101
It's literally not better than my favorite DRPG Wizardry Gaiden 1 on GB, so kneel AND suck my dick and it's not a DRPG because the perspective is overhead, there's no exploration aspect or mapping, basically MOST of what makes a DRPG is simply not present in Slopyrinth, plus Touhou shit is irredeemable trash without exception, and fuck you.

>>725268768 (OP)
the beatdown never stops

>>725279836
Fun fact: it's called a blobber because you have to look like a blobfish to enjoy this shit genre

>>725281646
I look like this and play games like this.

>>725274020
Be sure and start Genesis M&M2 with your speakers turned up to max volume to enjoy the start menu music

some of these old dungeon crawlers are not for me, i remeber wizardry having ball crushing encounters where your whole party can killed in one shot or getting their level lowered permanently

>>725282849
RNG timewasters were the git gud soulslop of their era

>>725283468
and need i mention getting a level up and one or more of your stats goes down?

>>725268768 (OP)
It's fun once you get the hang of it.

i beat eye of the beholder last night, it was fun
though near the end i stopped drawing the map and kinda rushed it, ended up missing the wand that i "needed" to beat the final boss and just slashed him to death with my paladin

>>725283468
>RNG timewasters were the git gud soulslop of their era
There's a difference between pushing a button in a <0.5s timeframe every 2 seconds like playing slots machine (japanese game btw) and dealing a damage between 35 and 45 to a character depending on level and power of spell. Also dungeon crawlers have many creative puzzles and riddles to solve, and map making. What does roll slop have more than time-button pushing besides you extracting a meaning out of badly translated sentences in object descriptions without a goal?

I still like it.

I hate the braindead/tedious combat in those. Except for Grimrock 2 and Vaporum, but those are modern.

>>725284302
i played the whole series some 2 or 3 years ago, i liked the first one, the second game's dungeons are insane i could not finish it, one thing is having a complicated dungeon, another thing is having teleporters everywhere that are going to reset your progress if you enter the wrong one.

>>725270310
Japanese ones are always lacking something.

>>725284182
I need to go back to this game and finish it. A dorf joined my party before I had to format my hard drive and forgot to make a backup of my saves.

>>725284687
which is a shame because i really wanted to like the second game

>>725273032
Finally played this game last year. It's one of the best rpg series I have ever experienced.

I wish there were Arx Fatalis or Diablo style games with complicated classic roguelike/immersive sim mechanics and a heavy focus on athmospheric dungeon crawling, I don't think there's even a single vidya like this in existance.

>>725284687
I don't think they reset progress. You just go back the way you came. They're basically stairs. I'd say it's worth finishing for that strange ending sequence.

>>725285343
i saw it on youtube and i personally liked the ending for what it was, pure "fuck it we ball" energy.

>>725284548
>braindead

Huh but most pre 80s have great combat?

>>725280840
The D actually stands for dungeon! If it stood for First Person View they would call it a FPVRPG. And the game is exploring a dungeon and filling out a map so Labyrinth of Touhou is a DRPG. The fact that a seething autist like you throws a temper tantrum every time it's mentioned can only be seen as a positive.M80GG

>>725286423
>>725280840
>/a/ Tohou fag vs. /vr/ WIZARDRY chad

>>725269789
Etrian Odyssey 2

>>725270310
how about Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2? those seem like decent dungeon crawlers. maybe go further back and do Ultima Underworld.

>>725284687
I really wanted to like PS2 as much as I did PS1 but I think there was just that magic/perfect combination of being 8yo when PS1 came out... so even though I like the music PS2 was meh.

I'd like to see a PS2 remake that puts the background art back into the fight sequences, and converts the dungeons to PS1 style 3D

What bothers me about Grimrock is how fucking good it still looks 13 years later. Good as in it would have still held up as a new indie release today.

Maybe that says more about the state of indie games in the past decade though that are still aiming for lolsoretro or flash aesthetics instead of AAA.

>>725286637
Tohou is so gay I don't know how these dorks like it.

>>725289283
i hate them too, but i respect the faggots, this was a weeb website first and foremost after all.

>>725288701
graphics peaked in 2015, the only game i was graphically surprised by "recently" is red dead 2

>>725268768 (OP)
Anyone know if scummvm can play all dungeon crawlers or would I have to switch to DOSbox for some like the the goldbox games?

Bump

>>725291006
I know Scumm can play Might n Magic 1-5. It even ports the hud from 4-5 into the 1st game.

>>725291006
there's a LOT of systems, not everything was made for DOS or MS windows and each game often had many versions. there's this book (it's free and a PDF) that goes over many CRPGs and the best edition for most of them:
https://crpgbook.wordpress.com/

Are there any party comp gotchas going into Grimrock or does it not really matter?

>>725268768 (OP)
turn based combat is fun

I don't know why people hype up Grimrock so much desu, it's alright, but it's more of a puzzle game with combat, i don't see the appeal.

>>725293742
I was just about to post this. I was pretty disappointed to learn how simple the combat is. Not a bad game though.

>>725280840
>there's no exploration aspect or mapping
that's literally not true, thougheverbeitfully

>>725291006
never knew what scummvm was before this thread

>>725291006
I launch exodos and if it's not there I'm not playing it

>>725293742
It's a dizzying, square-dancing, puzzle-solving dungeon crawler with glacially-slow pacing. I thought it was cool at first, but I got frustrated by how long it takes to level up and actually progress. I stopped playing around the fourth floor.

>>725284735
They're not really lacking something, more like they just have vastly different focuses. Like jap ones tend to make random encounters just resource wasters and focus only on the boss fights for the most part, whereas you tend to see the reverse in western style ones where they focus on the level being the challenge. Personally I'm not a huge western crawler fan, but that's probably mostly because I don't have much attachment to the old DnD style visuals.

>>725291006
idk but eye of the beholder works in scummvm

>>725269789
Dragonruins 1 and 2
Dr1 is dirty cheap on steam and can be completed in 2 hours, you could also just buy it, play for a bit and if you like it refund it and play dr2, the sequel is more polished and has missions

>>725293282
Might & Magic?

>>725293742
>but it's more of a puzzle game with combat,
Isn't that sorta how much actual old dungeon crawlers were like?

>>725269789
Nocturne

I feel like I've played quite a few dungeon crawlers and the like by now, but somehow I never started ultima underworld. I should fix that. Whats the best way to play it nowadays?

what would a modern dungeon crawler look like

>>725290218
There's good weeb and bad weeb. Toohoo is the second one.

>>725268768 (OP)
People like me exist. I want to be in an evil dungeon running around killing shit. That's my ideal life. I can't do that in real life so I play blobbers.

>>725297482
Dungeon crawlers are a genre based on nostalgia and tradition. There's no such thing as a modern dungeon crawler because any new one is just trying to recreate old ones.

>>725297482
Deep down looked to be what I imagine it would be.

>>725295863
what the fuck dragon ruins is that short? insane, how long is the second one?

>>725297071
pretty sure dosbox is still the only way to play it
the only issue is that the mouse can feel pretty janky so you need to change the settings to increase sensitivity iirc

>>725297569
>I want to be in an evil dungeon running around killing shit.
that's called a janitorial job.

>>725299236
But they do it for free.

At least in a dungeon you can get gold from a rat or something

>>725271192
The first two Lands of Lore games are peak sovl

For me, it's Aeon of Sands

What are some good single character dungeon crawlers? I want to go in alone.

Best waifu dungeon crawler?

>>725270708
This is the dungeon crawler to end them all. This is where it all began. Nothing comes close to this and Chaos Strikes Back. I used to be afraid of this game when I was a kid.

Any dungeon crawlers with personality systems ala Wizardry 8, or in general ways to give color to your custom party? I prefer full party creation because I like making stories in my head, but I also think that ways to make your guys more than numbers and a portrait are cool.

>>725269789
Shining in the Darkness. the relatively unknown progenitor of the Shining Force series was a dungeon crawler instead of a TRPG. 80s jrpg jank with my favorite art style in vidya

>>725268768 (OP)
I miss Grimore posting

>>725303694
shut the fuck up sape

>>725303505
Alas I prefer II. The constant storms going on around Skulkeep provide godly ambiance. The fact they can become severe and dangerous lightning storms that force you to seek shelter is also really cool.
of course getting the contraption to the other dimension working is a pain in the ass but man do I love it

>>725302796
All of them as long as they let you make fem characters.

You do have imagination, right anon?

It's kind of curious how dungeon crawling is the only element of old school pen&paper rpgs that really stuck on vidya, but I guess it makes sense given how easy it's to replicate. Still, I wonder how things could have gone if early rpgs also tried to simulate the other two pillars: exploration and wargaming. We could have gotten a warband-wizardry hybrid in the 90s.

>>725304147
What about those early PC war sims? Do those count?

>>725304251
Nah, not really, or at least they are tangentially related.

The thing about pen&paper rpgs is that the wargaming aspect got abandoned relatively quickly because the people that got into the hobby after Gygax had no background on it: They read how encountering orcs while exploring could involve 300 enemies (no joke, it's right in the AD&D MM), said "fuck this I'll crawl dungeons instead", then ignored that the rules assume you will be going around with a veritable army of goons to face those encounters. When they got ported to pc, the mindset of people playing the game was firmly on "kill shit, get loot".

>>725293742
I think Grimrock got a decent formula if it wasn't for the slow meta progression/leveling.

>>725304648
Ah. I see now, thanks.

Interesting how classic Pen and Paper was very different compared to how people play it nowadays.

>>725270835
You'll love Anvil of Dawn

>>725304147
but that's what happened. Wizardry got really hard into japan. Ultima was also a pretty big series that had those other two pillars you speak of. The first dragon quest was an attempt by japan to unite both the RPG of Ultima and the dungeon crawling of wizardry. Final fantasy had dragon quest as its primary inspiration and everything else spawned from that.
I think dungeon crawlers are inherent to RPGs because i mean, even tolkien books or basically any western mythology repertoire involve a party getting a quest and having to go through tombs or old mines to recover legendary memorabilia. modern RPG do dungeon crawling in a pretty boring way though. With skyrim everything is repetitive and short and there's automap and hundreds of dungeons, nothing feel special or unique, and i stopped at that with RPGs because i hear even more modern ones are pretty bad.

>>725304774
In the old days of Gygax and Arneson rpgs were seen as a subset of wargaming, and it's almost trivial to turn a game like AD&D into a pure or hybrid wargame. Even the term campaign that we now use to talk about linear narratives a GM runs for his players were originally used to refer to fantasy military campaigns within a sandbox. All of these elements were ultimately left behind in favor of dungeon crawling, and after dungeon crawling itself was abandoned in favor of collaborative storytelling.

>>725297482
betheda's garbage and its derivatives are basically what modern dungeon crawlers are
>enter a dungeon
>its almost a completely straight line
>if you're really lucky you might get one or two side areas that consist of one room with an enemy or two and maybe minor loot
>fight a standard enemy but with a bloated health bar at the end for your "boss" encounter and a chest of a slightly improved loot table
>repeat ad nauseam to run the skinner box treadmill of number go up
this is what dungeon crawling means in its modern connotation

>>725270310
Can vouch for Labyrinth of Galleria. I got filtered by the original game (Refrain) but absolutely loved Galleria. It's a bit of a unique dungeon crawler in that your odds of success are more about having a good party comp and synergies rather than needing to do anything specific in fights which can be a bit odd to get used to.

>>725305353
Also dumbed down skill learning

Thanks todd

>>725304897
Última was big on exploration yes, thought it didn't really incorporated wargaming, which is the other pillar that sadly was abandoned much earlier than the other two. In Japan's case thought they directly didn't had much direct experience with pen&paper, which is perhaps why they sacrificed player agency so early.

>Tolkien
It's funny because in the early days the hobby was more influenced by Conan than by Tolkien, and Gygax himself admitted that his aim with the game was something more similar to the Hyborian Age than Middle Earth.

>>725304147
Wargames didn't stuck in pnp either, so that's a weird grasp to have. And ignoring pnp, Total War and Wargame are reasonably popular franchises, and RTS genre in general is an evolution of wargames.

>>725305353
Todd optimized the fun out of his own games, trying to curate the experience that triggers the highest dopamine hit with the least amount of dev effort needed.

>>725269789
>every reply is different
hmmmm I wonder what this says about the genre. surely all of you are picking based on the agreed-upon merits of the DC

>>725305847
Wargames didn't stayed in pnp, but what I mean is that in regards to rpgs, the wargaming elements these used to have in the first editions was never translated into their vidya imitations or adaptations. You don't go around a map finding armies of 300 orcs and killing them with your own army in between dungeons.

>>725306187
>I wonder what this says about the genre.
There's a lot of great games to recommend to a beginner? What a weird thing to be whiny about, jeez.

>>725305532
>>725306028
its kind of funny going back to play the pre morrowind elder scrolls games and seeing all the signs that were already there with almost everything but the main quest being randomized radiant shit
but at least then the randomized dungeons could get fairly windy in their layouts and they had proper skill systems
remember spellmaking?

>>725306028
>>725306576
Many of the story guys left bethesda after morrowind and todd and the gameplay guys took over every future game making them very much action and very little rpg. Morrowind was done by both branches almost equally.
The randomization thing you mention was (proudly) done by Todd in Daggerfall.

>>725306379
>What a weird thing to be whiny about, jeez.
haha

The dark spire is pretty cool

>>725306256
They weren't translated to vidya for the same reason they weren't kept in pnp - it's a different experience. People who want to dungeon crawl, don't want to manage an army, have a Desert Bus experience when they travel from city to city and dance in DDR segment in taverns.

I wish they ported EO 4 & 5 to PC too

Has anyone played this? Would you recommend it for someone who likes the idea of a dungeon crawler in theory, but doesn't have the time or patience to sit through a multi-hour Wizardry playthrough?

>>725269896
>Grimoire
Isn't the creator a lolcow or something?

>>725307585
no i have not played it.

>>725269789
Best one will basically always be Wizardry 8, especially for beginners. Its a great way to step into the genre, and its jsut a very high quality game.

>>725307585
>>725308591
Forgot the pic

I wish the genre got more games

>>725307746
Sounds like sape talk to me

>>725308762
game's slow as shit thou

>>725304868
>You'll love Anvil of Dawn
Damn that looks fucking sweet, almost like a Daggerfall dungeon crawler aesthetically.

Is this any good? It's only $11, some kind of blackjack based dungeon crawler, non-nude btw

>>725315485
>>725315794
These two posts together are a roller coaster of emotions

>>725316481
They show very clearly the differences between the east and the west.

>>725269789
Also, what is the best Co-Op Dungeon Crawler?
I want to experience the feel I had playing Diablo 1 with my buddy.

>>725313102
I wish I still had the screenshots of all his crazy rants. Most of those images are thoroughly deleted and hard to access now. Not to mention that modern search engines just outright hate showing me forum screenshots instead of twitter retardation.

>>725315485
>>725315794
Dungeon crawler

Dungeon crawler: japan

What was king's field? An attempt to make a Real Time dungeon crawler in full 3D?

>>725317278
Kinda? if you look up some of the old from interviews and statements they'll mention that Wizardry was a big influence on KF.

The other comparison is Ultima underworld and in some ways. They're alike.

>>725317278
If you play the original KF1 its super obviously a 'what if you be like- IN Wizardry bro!' game.

>>725316481
I just see two cool dungeon crawlers personally.

>>725317278
Its wizardry, BUT 3D AND IN REAL TIME WHOAAAA. great games though, shadow tower is better imho

>>725303676
never heard of it, into the backlog it goes

>>725317278
I consider the souls series to be dungeon crawlers. It's stretching the definition but the core gameplay is still visiting a new dungeon, finding secret treasures and fighting ennemies.

>>725318564
Shadow tower is definitely better, it may be that it was originally developed by one guy in his free time on his PC, or that not having music makes it eerie, but it definitely feels more like a game made by game developers and less like a game made by an ex productivity software company employees, which is what i feel every time i play other from software games.

>>725307746
He's a lunatic who claims to be a genetic throwback to the Neanderthals, and thus a superior being compared to the Homo Sapiens that infest the world and make fun of his game. It's a decent enough Wizardry 7 knockoff, though. I'd recommend muting the soundtrack and playing your own music, especially during chargen, else you'll be driven insane by MIDI trumpets.

>>725269789
Madou Monogatari for the Genesis and Game Gear. 1 is available on both platforms, while 2, 3, and A (a spin-off) are Game Gear-exclusive. It's a solo dungeon crawler about a magical girl in training. As far as I know, they've all been translated to English.

>ctrl+f Stonekeep
>0 results
Boooooooo

>>725319868
>Shadow tower is definitely better, it may be that it was originally developed by one guy in his free time on his PC,
I didn't know that. That's pretty cool. Kinda glad From give it a chance and made it into a proper game then.

I also like shadow tower abyss. In some ways. I like it a bit more than the original

>>725319940
>"they've all been translated to English"
>楽しい
>funny
Looks more like they were making shit up to me.

>>725320078
STAbyss is great. Finding new stuff on every new playthrough, especially ng+ or ++ exclusive stuff will always be kino. Shame the game is too fucking short.

>>725270310
>SMTVV
not a dungeon crawler.

>>725320401
Oh no, the goofy cutscene was mistranslated by one of the game's five devoted fans!

>>725320790
Neither is Nocturne, but people get mad at you for saying that.

>>725273032
>have Book 2 as a kid because it was out for 2-3 years and on sale so my mom caves
>constantly fail to accomplish anything
>get lost in an elemental plane and die
I wonder if I should avenge 8 year old me one of these days.

>>725321051
At least Nocturne had the first person view point mode

>>725321134
Only in ng+

>>725275887
>TIN TIRIRIN TIN - TEN TEREREN TEN
>TIN TIRIRIN TEN-TENREN-TEN

>>725321051
nocturne had dungeons though, it was just in 3rd person instead of first. SMTVV has 3 dungeons total, and 2 dungeons per route.

>>725322214
That's not what dungeon crawler means, otherwise every single jrpg is a dungeon crawler too. You know what people are talking about when they make the distinction, anon. There is obviously a big difference between Nocturne and Strange Journey.

>>725320962
I'm saying that if they can't get something THAT simple right, then do you really have any hopes for the "main" script?

How's class of heroes 3 on steam?

>>725323212
Pretty alright. They don't really do much to explain the schools, though.

>>725319868
You're talking about Miyazaki ?
He stated he played KF and made souls as a more accessible option, the first person view was too scary so he made it 3rd person, the phantoms and messages on the ground are there to help players.
He's successfully made DRPGs accessible to a wider audience.

>>725297998
Yeah the first one was made for a gamejam, the second one takes a good few hours more, idk an exact number, but it has more classes and stuff

>>725323750
No, I'm talking about From Software, the ex productivity software company that started making games later on. What i'm saying is that all of their games are objectively bad, but the souls are especially terrible, following the skinner box formula of artificial difficulty and repetition so liked in Japan, and mixed with familiar (often low quality in respect to other games of the time) settings and the ever-present lazy writing of FS professed as "profound" by early 20s western undergraduates a.k.a. many of the now "souls lore" youtube channels, which is how they became so "accessible to a wider audience". By all means though, let's make it even more accessible by hiring a guy that write about feces and defecation in detail, the west has no fucking clue anymore anyways.

>no multiplayer blobber
why

>>725324714
If you ignore the fanbase and youtube grift they are decent games. Insanely overrated, but still good games.

>>725322754
I doubt a game about a little girl trapped inside a wine cellar, slinging magic spells at colourful monsters harbors some earth-shattering, life-changing universal truth that will be tragically lost in translation.

>>725324714
>artificial difficulty
Has this term ever been used correctly?

>>725269789
Minecraft

>>725324909
Ah, there it is. The double standard.
>if I PERSONALLY don't think the story matters all that much, then the translation's ALLOWED to be inaccurate, because... uh... b-because I SAY SO, OK!? GOD!!!!

Why is there no good modern dungeon crawlers with good graphics that arent friendslop/extractorslop?

>>725325845
No money in the genre, so no money to hire artists.
>extractorslop
What?

>>725324821
The perfect dungeon crawler would combine co-op, hack-n-slash Elden Souls gameplay with the bleakness of early Wizardry games. Imagine Nightreign, but it takes place entirely underground, inside of a partially-procedurally-generated intricate tunnel system, with the option to turn off auto-mapping at the beginning of each playthrough so that you and your friends can compare and contrast your respective maps while you play.

A Wizardry-Souls hybrid would print money, man.

>>725326054
shit like dark and darker i assume

>>725268768 (OP)
BASED LANDS OF LORE 2 ENJOYER.

I still boot this game up on my windows 98 machine about once a year. That shot of the castle up in smoke is K-I-N-O.
The whole game is.

I actually really like Lands of Lore 3 as well because it's like a fever dream and it's an easy game to break. I never have any idea what is going on.

>>725324909
>Should I admit that the bad translation is unfortunate but reiterate that the game is worth playing anyway?
>No, I'll passive-agressively insult the person who was asking me about it!
Localization apologists, not even once.

>>725301730
I like 3 too.

>>725326685
I like the jank but there's zero soul in it

>>725326685
3 could have been great but it was rushed to hell and back

>>725326591
>I doubt a game about a little girl trapped inside a wine cellar, slinging magic spells at colourful monsters harbors some earth-shattering, life-changing universal truth that will be tragically lost in translation.
>passive-agressively insult
what a fucking snowflake

>>725326793
>>725326959
I just can't agree. Granted it's not as timeless as 2, but 3 is a unique experience and could not be any more of its time.

>>725325836
Double standard? I'm just saying you should lower your expectations for an amateur translation of an obscure game that doesn't have a discernable following outside of middle-aged Japanese men that never left Japan. Who would be left to translate the damn things? Probably some English-speaking autist who had to use Google Translate. Cut him some slack.

>>725327478
>you should lower your expectations for an amateur translation of an obscure game
Even an N5 knows what たのしい means dude, what the fuck kind of copium are you on here?

>>725327695
I'll be sure to forward your thoughts to the guy, maybe he'll publish an updated translation.