Thread 725294971

The eternal debate.

>>725294971 (OP)
I like the first one better.

>>725294971 (OP)
2 has better combat by far but 1 has a better story.

2 is one of the most overrated games of all time.

There is no debate
KH1 is better in every way, yes even the combat

2 has better combat but it's wasted on enemy capabilities and bosses sucking a lot harder

It was all over when you stopped getting bonus EXP for doing certain blocks or parries

I like both soundtracks equally.
2 has better gameplay.
1 has better everything else.

>>725294971 (OP)
Kingdom Hearts ended with 2
But the original tops it in exploration and puzzles.

2 sucks on a first playthrough because too many system are obfuscated and not using them robs you of half the fun the game can provide.

1 is great on a first playthrough and still super fun to replay

>>725294971 (OP)
The debate is only eternal because the terms of debate are nebulous.
KH2 at release was garbage. It was press X and Triangle to win, without a single challenge in the entire game (even Sephiroth was easier than his KH1 rendition).
KH2FM fixes a lot of release-KH2's problems by adding some of the greatest endgame superbosses in any game of all time, as well as an area where you can actually use all the Drive movement abilities that you unlock over time, but it does not fix the absolutely dogshit story/presentation in the game. SoraDonaldandGoofy ad nauseam is insufferable, and no amount of historical revision can change that Roxas' 3-hour tutorial is boring garbage. With all that said, the KH2 ending is -so- incredibly perfect that every story flaw can be forgiven... if that were the end of the story (which it's not).
KH1, conversely, is a much more well-rounded game. The story is simple and clean and cute and charming. If there was never a series made out of it, it was a perfect standalone game. The gameplay is always solid and even if the early worlds and combat are clunky, it's all the better to make you feel the evolution in your combat and movement techniques as you progress though the story.

KH1 is the better game overall. KH2 has the better combat. They're both great.
KH1FM>=KH2FM>KH1>>>>KH2

>>725294971 (OP)
KH is one of my favorite games.
KH2 was a letdown. None of the charm of the first game.

>>725295852
>>725295928
These

>>725294971 (OP)
2 is better, especially on critical mode

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1 is a much more tightly crafted experience, even when accounting for some of its jank.

KH2 is largely carried by a smattering of really high points, with regard to certain story setpieces and kickass bosses, with the rest of it being something of a mess. Even the combat system that the game derives so much of its praise from is something that needed FM's additional content to really be worth exploring.

1 is one of the best games of all time but 2 is the best game of all time

>>725294971 (OP)
It is 2
The gameplay is so much better in 2. Don't get wrong hallow bastion hits on all cylinders that no moment in second game even comes close to matching. I'm still annoyed they used the final mix color scheme for the remaster.

>>725294971 (OP)
Both games are kino. It's the games that came after that make the story go to shit and become a convoluted mess.

>>725294971 (OP)
Kingdom Hearts

>>725294971 (OP)
I liked how KH1 had actual level design and you had to explore to progress.
KH2 didn't have as much soul.

>>725295852
>>725295928
Yup, I still like 2, but 1 mogs it in almost every way.

Can you mod the original PS2 music into 1.5 and 2.5 on PC?

>>725304106
KH2 has a big mod that adds loads of QoL, one of them being the ability to toggle between the original and remastered OST
so i'm sure it's possible to do it for both games even outside of that

>>725304231
That's awesome. I don't understand how the majority of KH fans prefer the new music over the old.

>>725294971 (OP)
2 for me, but I was also older and understood games better. I've never replayed 1, but maybe my opinion would change if I do.

My issue with Kingdom Hearts II is it peaks on its tutorial and the rest of the game feels like a footnote to Twilight Town.

>>725304325
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au0rhFks090
https://github.com/KH-ReFined/KH-ReFined/
for the KH2 one. it seems quite modular
maybe there are stand alone OST mods out there too but i haven't checked personally

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1 has soul
KH2 has better gameplay

>>725294971 (OP)
1 is the overall best. 2's combat is more in depth but it made every other aspect worse. Not that 1's combat is bad, just far more grounded.

>>725294971 (OP)
1 is a complete package in everything from atmosphere to journey to feels to story

2 is a expert action game

>>725304520
>>725304896

this

both games have sovl and good gameplay but KH1 can be appreciate by anyone, especially when you like older games and old Disney/FF, while KH2 is more appreciated if you're chuuni and enjoy exploring combat depth.
as for me, i prefer 2 because it gets better the more you play it. every year my appreciation of it grows. while KH1 is nostalgia kino to come back to, it's always good but my first playthrough was the best one.

>>725294971 (OP)
Kh1 is better than BASE kh2 in terms of content, there is no argument's if you compared FM them Kh2 is miles better. No one should have to suffer vanilla kh2, shit is raw

>>725294971 (OP)
The first game has cute Alice. The second game has Poolan.

>>725304454
There's one for KH1
https://github.com/Leinxad/KH1SoundtrackSwitcher

>>725304454
Going on a rant, I'm still pissed the steam port of BBS is hot garbage, it barely functions

>>725305602
as in it crashes or what? i didn't play BBS on there yet but i was very disappointed by my KH1 crashes and the AI upscaled textures. KH deserved better. i replayed 2 on PCSX2 recently so my next run will be my first Steam one and i'm worried it'll crash too...

I've never finished 2 despite multiple attempts to do so, split by like 16 years apart.
1 is the only good game in the entire series.

I've played and beaten FF1-6. Should I start the kingdom hearts series now or play through the ps1 era Final Fantasy's before doing so

>>725305742
Is it a specific hardware thing? I don't remember having my game crash even once.

>>725305742
it crashes a LOT, it's borderline unplayable, even with Pcwiki tips, the game is unstable at anything above 60 fps, screen transitions can cause crashing, playing the board game will always result in a crash, the only tip that helped stop crashing for a while was reducing my monitors frame rate to 60,
I didn't have any issues with Kh1, though oddly some cutscenes had this sped up issue where audio would de-sync

>>725305771
depends on what you're in the mood for. more turn based JRPG with story focus, or action JRPG with gameplay focus? you don't need to know the FF chars to appreciate their KH cameos imo since they don't act as they do in their games for the most part anyway.

Do you think KH would've worked as a series if you removed Disney? Both now and if they had started off without it. Basically keep things the same but instead of public domain character by way of Disney they'd be Square's take on Snow White and Alice in Wonderland and Pinocchio.
I keep going back and forth on this. I would prefer 100% original but I think the odd mix of Disney and Square helps to give that feeling of worlds colliding.

>>725305771
the only FF characters in KH are from 7, 8 and 10, so if you want to have occasional moments of "hey i know that guy!", play them first. it's a really small thing though, so if you're not already really interested in playing those games i'd just recommend starting up KH

>>725306083
>Do you think KH would've worked as a series if you removed Disney
not really, KH sort of relies too much on disney to function the worlds pretty much revolve around the films and or stories, without it I don't know what the games would be like, you could have cases like KH3 where it did it's own thing and.. look how that turned out

>>725294971 (OP)
KH2 had better gameplay, KH1 had better everything else.

>>725306083
A lot for themes, authentic, plot points, music, etc is taken directly from old FF games and Disney movies. It literally would not be the same if it was just an original concept. Nomura's concept art for KH1 made it seem even more like a Disney movie.

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1's cover art is amazing. Might be a top 10 cover art of all time.

>>725305771
The FF elements in KH have always been very thin. Early on some of them are important to the story but they could've just as easily been replaced by an original character and nothing would change. The only one I can think of that would be "important" to know is Cloud and Sepiroth who keep their rivalry going across all games they show up in.

Name actual flaws of KH1

>>725294971 (OP)
1 has better combat than 2 and the attacks actually feel like there's weight to them

>>725294971 (OP)
Why can't I like both?

>>725306591
It really looks so clean. Don't like how Nomura shoved every relevant character into the new ones, KH3's looked like a mess. Wonder how he'll handle 4's.

>>725306706
Camera being mapped to R2/L2 was insane. Other than that nothing is wrong with it, it's just that in retrospect KH2 has better gameplay.

>>725306706
i... i can't...

>>725306706
final boss uses the bad flying combat instead of having another grounded humanoid phase like Xemnas. When you go into the darkness to free donald and goofy fighting the heartless in there, they could've just had you fight a humanoid boss in there aswell.

>>725306706
Game favors magic spam over physical combat

>>725306259
>>725306567
But the stories would still be almost the same, just that they'd be original takes on the public domain rather than use Disney's take on it. You could still have Monstro but now he'd look more like the original Dogfish, Alice in Wonderland would still be the same but without Disney's designs, Nightmare Before Christmas could be replaced with a Sleepy Hollow world or Frankenstein, something horror themed. The differents worlds could still have different artstyles, Sora could still dress differently.

>>725306706
Peter Pan's world is a bit of a letdown. I like the premise but I would've liked if the ship was just part 1 of the world, with the second part being in Neverland and being able to actually use the flying to explore the world.

>>725307078
>he's not a rodCHAD
Pathetic.

Is The Story So Far worth playing. I don't care about owning and fully playing all the rest

>>725308146
The various HD collections are are your only choice these days outside of hunting down original GBA/DS/3DS/PS2/PSP/PS4 originals.

>>725294971 (OP)
since you posted the vanillia boxarts, kh1 easily. figuring out the patterns to clash attacks is a lot more interesting then reaction commands and reflect: the game. the final mix content saved this game

>>725308330
I'm not familiar with the hd collections. I was only told this was a banger series but way too big to get into randomly. What are those collections

>>725294971 (OP)
Our guy Chuggaaconroy did a playthrough of KH1 so that will be more popular for a while. We’ll have to wait a year or so before he does the sequel and tells us his thoughts on KH2.

what will square enix do for the 25th anniversary?
Kingdom Hearts being around for a quarter of a century is quite a milestone.

Im playing the first one right now in hopes of action adventure creative powers for enviromental puzzle interaction and levels you actually have to navigate kino

>>725306706
Gummi ship missions are pretty dull. In 2 they're like a rollercoaster.

>>725308684
I'd say the first game delivers. That was actually something I felt disappointed about in 2, a lot of the environment is less reactive to the player.

>>725308607
That'd be 2027 right? Might be a good aim if they can get KH4 out around that time. I'm not really expecting some big dedicated event otherwise.

>>725308420
They have wacky names so get ready. But basically the first iteration of the HD Collections was called 1.5+2.5 HD ReMix with the 2.8 HD ReMix coming later. This collected all the games prior to KH3's release. Then they released "The Story so Far" which was the two HD ReMix's bundled together. After that came All-in-One which had the two HD ReMix's plus KH3. And finally there's the PC exclusive Integrum Masterpiece which is the same as All-in-One but with the KH3 ReMind DLC included as that had to be purchased separately before.

>>725306706
Traverse Town 1 sucks.
People like to shit on Twilight Town's introduction taking forever in KH2 but those people seem to think that Destiny Island is the only bit of prologue/tutorial and forgot about Traverse because it is REALLY unfun and takes forever.

Gummi Ships are also kind of lame compared to the rail shooter of 2.

>>725306706
Atlantica isnt bad but its not really a fun world and even as someone who loves the Little Mermaid soundtrack the music gets grating.

>>725309242
>Traverse Town 1 sucks.
I will hear no such of this blaspheme.

>>725309242
Traverse Town is great. You'll get some new trinity mark or power and there's be some reward waiting for you. Twilight Town just has a nice mood with the evening light.

>KH1
better level design/exploration
better paced
better story
better aesthetic
better atmosphere/tone
better paced

>KH2
combat is better in the late game/post game
gummi ship segments are better

for me it's 1

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1 is the more complete game but I had more fun with KH2

>>725309052
What the fuck. I'll try to snipe either all in one or integrum whichever one is cheaper. Or should I just wait for KH4

>>725294971 (OP)
They're both solid 8/10's and my favorite games of all time.

>>725294971 (OP)
I'm still waiting for a Day's remaster
I will never give up hope

>>725310579
You'd be waiting for a long time

>>725310927
Stickmansham said days wasn't good so I take his word for it

>>725310579
Kh4 might be another 2-3 years off IF that, we've got another Kh3 situation on our hands, what's worse is when they canceled that new mobile game apparently it was supposed to give us lore shit for 4.. so yeah, FUN

>>725294971 (OP)
I like how chunky the gameplay in 1 is also the levels are way better. KH2 is still goated though.

>>725294971 (OP)
KH 2 is the best game ever made

>>725306706
Clunky shitty platforming awful worlds very mediocre combat

>>725306706
All of Monstro and Atlantica, the Ultima Weapon grind, clunky awful platforming, all gummi ship sections, confusing gummi ship customization, too many i-frames on skills like Strike Raid that trivialize every single boss in the game, etc.

>>725306083
Sora was literally designed to be Human Mickey Mouse.

>>725306802
Serious question, were game devs back them fucking dumb, they had an analog stick right there for camera movement but didn't bother with it, I swear every japan game had this issue too, like kings field and shadow tower, but those were psx games so I can give it a pass

>>725306083
Fundamentally it could work but it'd need like 5x the effort to make each world feel unique because of various factors Disney brings in
>classic disney music like Halloween town or Winnie the Pooh
>free artstyle
>sometimes already classic locations
>without Disney mandate not bringing party members to other worlds would be questioned a lot more
>characters you should already know even if you were born yesterday

With their world designs being so tied to Disney classics they didn't need to make worlds that big like Halloween Town yet it's still an awesome world because it's Halloween Town. Outside Wonderland if the Disney worlds weren't Disney then they'd need the same level of bigness that Wonderland and the Original worlds like Traverse Town and Hollow Bastion have.

>>725311985
>Ultima Weapon grind
unironically if you knew to grind early before hallow bastion heartless swap it's a lot easier, I always dreaded it since it made grinding at least twice as long

>>725312065
It's because most games tended to use the face buttons for everything and the shoulder buttons for very little. Taking your thumb off the face buttons to move the camera is inconvenient if you have to do it too often, so they usually put it on the shoulders instead.

>>725295227
>better story
kek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1PTN0Zdy7E
to be fair, none of the KH games have actually good story.
it went to complete shit with 3D though

>>725307212
So what you're saying would KH be a good game if it was based off a JRPG adventure of Literary classics instead of the disney films? I mean I think that for sure would work but the artstyle would be way different, even the music. The story would probably focus on encouraging you to read books more as well.

The only thing that I know has the same concept thats not a fanfiction work is The Pagemaster movie

Sanctuary is better than Simple and Clean. This is inarguable.

>>725294971 (OP)
3 is the best game in the series, and the only one with acceptable combat. 1 and 2 are just mashing X

>>725312403
I think several of these would've been easily fixed without Disney, again keep the same structure and design just remove Disney from the equation, but you bring up an interesting point. KH worlds are on the small side and they mostly work in part because we know what else there is in these worlds and characters from the movies. But with a 100% original they'd have to work double time to really sell people on it. Something like the Colosseum just wouldn't work not that KH1 pulls that world well either.

>>725307212
Hmm.. they could I can see a bigger issue is everything has to be passed through disney, if they were to spin original stories they'd have to get approval first sadly even if they are public domain, though I agree I think more unique worlds would be cool for a change, It makes me wonder what other classic tales could nomura take inspiration from that's public domain,

>>725313008
JP or EN?
this is important

>>725312849
Saying KH has never had good story is wrong and pretty reductive.
2 is at the very least serviceable enough to be engaging and provide fun characters while you play a pretty good action game
1 is compelling by itself and actually incorporates the weird Disney X FF premise. Everything after 2 started being pants on head convolutions for the sake of convolutions though

>>725312403
>>725313209
Final Fantasy has it's own FFxFF setting called Mobius and it's alright . It may be Nomura's autism but the whole Disney elements of KH kind of elevated it in 1 and 2 in a way that was very cool and unique, despite being cringey at the same time. KH after 2 is more so a bit cringey outside of certain scenes, which is fine. The way KH is you absolutely need Disney but you can divorce KH in concept from Disney if you go all in on Nomura's weird AU with like Quadratum or other shit. I'm fairly certain it would just not be as popular as it is though without the early Disney boost

>>725312601
Doesn't help that Final Mix made the grind twice as hard with all the shitty special heartless they introduced.

>>725313008
no it's not
>WHEN YOU WALK AWAY
>YOU DON'T HEAR ME SAY
>PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE
>OH BABY, DON'T GO
sactuary is good, but not better than simple and clean

The worst thing they did to this series was making it so Nobodys can become people again.

>>725313734
I HATED farming the chimera soly due to the way Halloween town layout
also for anons wanting to grind, they updated the site for better use now, it's much more simple and clean https://www.khguides.com/kh/inventory/synthesis/

>>725294971 (OP)
>eternal
We've literally reached consensus.
>KH1
Better level design, more integration of Disney worlds and characters into the story if you're into that, combat is more like an action rpg blend rather than pure action, gummi ship levels are bad.
>KH2
Terrible level design, story is more original characters and themes if you're into that, combat is more pure action rather than an action rpg blend, gummi ship levels are a different flavor of bad.

Both are excellent overall but you might prefer one or the other depending on what you value in each game. It's like a Paper Mario 64 vs TTYD situation, only the most autistic of autists will unironically claim one is flatly better than the other. Two 9/10s with equal amounts of things going for or against them. Let's all just shake hands and agree that KH3 really was a disappointment.

>>725313970
>gummi ship levels are a different flavor of bad
Of all the complaints I think I disagree on this one, I actually found myself enjoying a few of the gummiship missions in 2. The one leading up to The World That Never Was, was actually kinda hype. As well as the one on the highway and the pirate ship. I don't think there was a single gummi ship mission in 1 I found myself enjoying.

>>725313008
光 is the best anyway

>>725314416
these faggots never got the crown gummi or S+10'd a track and it shows

>>725313440
>Saying KH has never had good story is wrong
cope
90% of every game is a filler arc where the characters from a disney movie walk onscreen and reference their film. it's dead air. think of how theoretically important kairi, mickey mouse, ansem (seeker of darkness) and wakka are to the plot of kh1. now think of how little they actually appear or do anything. the game is dead air. kh2 is even worse in that regard, and the series had consistently chosen to have nothing happen for nearly the entire game because it's artistically equivalent to Batman Meets Scooby-Doo
the actual narrative left over outside the embarrassing cameo parade is vapid and incoherent. ass pulls are a matter of course. retcons are the rule. death is a minor inconvenience. they usually fail to establish basic shit like what the villain wants, to the point where they've rereleased games with new cutscenes just to fix their massive gaps in basic storytelling.
i could imagine a functional storyline where donald duck yells out "It's Sephiroth!" but that's not what we got.

>>725296923
> no amount of historical revision can change that Roxas' 3-hour tutorial is boring garbage
I had a second save where I just skateboarded around twilight town and Roxas lived happily ever after

>>725294971 (OP)
I played 1 and 2 as a young teen on PS2. I absolutely loved these games.
But then I didn't play any other KH game until KH3 for PS4.
I bought KH3 for full price, was excited to play it (im now an adult 30 yr old man).
I played it for 3-4 hours and was so disappointed and wasn't into it, that I didn't finish it and just sold my copy online to someone else.
Was KH3 that bad?
All I can remember is my main gripes were No Final Fantasy characters and no Hercules Colosseum at the bare minimum.

>>725315061
I also have a second save that lets me skip the tutorial on subsequent playthroughs, but I don't pretend it's so I can skateboard (when you can do that at any point after returning to Twilight Town).

>>725314820
everything said here is correct.

>>725315151
KH3 had good DLC bosses
otherwise it's a good game but not as good as 2
and the plot is retarded but that's because they spammed retarded side games for years

>>725294971 (OP)
At least they're good enough for there to be a debate. Kingdom Hearts III however...

>>725294971 (OP)
KH2 has more fun gameplay, but KH1 has a comfy atmosphere and is really the only time the series actually used the Disney Worlds well

>>725313321
i still get goosebumps when i hear EN sanctuary, but that's the nostalgia

Kingdom Hearts 2 is a good button mash with some interesting endgame fights in Final Mix.
KH1 feels a bit more tactical and heavier.
Both are good but KH2 takes the crown for the sheer amount of content.

Dare I say, KH3 ReMind bosses are possibly the best. Finally beating Yozora with all pro codes active, I don't think that level of euphoria can be topped.

>>725308090
best room

>>725294971 (OP)
kingdom hearts 2 is basically a lightweight action game, which isn't even all that great by action game standards but is pretty much ascension by JRPG standards, and so that's really good. but most of its content doesn't really feel like it's made for that in mind til the Final Mix stuff, and its level design is pretty shit while the story is kind of really sold on the beginning and endgame, and nothing in-between is all that interesting. kingdom hearts 1 is a better overall package despite the clunkiness because it's a damn full featured JRPG, with dungeons, more interesting bosses, light puzzles and more progression checks than solely Trinities, while simultaneously at least having the novelty of establishing the world and characters so it feels like more is happening as it goes along.

they're two pieces of an overall whole, but i'd say that warts and all, the first game is just better as an actual RPG game. but if you fuckin hate RPG games and especially KH1, 2 is so streamlined and refocused into the combat that it has its own appeal at the cost of tossing basically everything else out.

>>725313968
Oh dang nice site thanks anon

>>725312403
Original worlds wouldn't match the SOUL of 100 Acre Wood or traveling with Donald and Goofy.

>>725315151
3 is horribly disappointing as a die hard fan, but a fine enough game in itself. The DLC however was fantastic.

>>725315151
It's a case where it simply doesn't stack up. They swapped internal development teams for the games because the Tokyo devs were so cocked up between different projects at Square, they got a team centered in Osaka to start making the spinoff/portable titles. Then they kept getting those, and improving with each entry but never really hitting the mark of 1 and 2. Go figure, by the time 3 was to be made, Tokyo Team was effectively stuck working on VII Remake, if I remember right, so Osaka got the big continuation task and while the patches and DLC made leaps and bounds of overall quality, baseline 3 is absolutely fucking boring. Sloppy, weird combat feel, proverbial player nuke buttons for free every minute, bosses having like a couple notable attacks before Desperation Phase, rinse and repeat, the list goes on.

I may have enjoyed the Einhander bits and thought some design was cool here and there, but you can outright tell it was a facsimile of what people genuinely liked about Kingdom Hearts at that point.

>>725317476
how many of the KH2 tokyo team even still work at square?
that team would've cranked out 10/10s left and right if it was handled properly. atleast i got KH2

>>725312849
>>725313440
>>725309703
KH story went dumb after the first game, the first one it was a good and closed disney/final fantasy adventure.
Then they decided to retcon everything the the sequels and focuse on the unnecessary convoluted plot of anime characters hiting each other instead of being a light harded disney/final fantasy like the first game.

Then Birth by Sleep came out, and the story when from dumb to profoundly retarded, seriously, what the actual fuck was that.

>>725318083
1, CoM and 2 had a good trilogy story that was beautifully concluded.
after that it all fell apart and kept doubling and tripling down on its own bullshit.

>>725318083
>what the actual fuck was that.
Nomura getting deep in the Visual Novel tier writing sauce.

>>725295928
Agreed

>>725295928
This currently playing second one and kairis cunny is better in first game. Better love stuff unlike the gay 2. Too bad second got aged up trash. I bet 4 will be a disaster with that ugly twink.

>>725318413
Kairi was pure sex in 2. cute panties too
they downgraded her in 3 like everything else

>>725318204
This, I would have been perfectly content with it as a trilogy. The moment they added time travel bullshit, it was over.

>>725318083
the more I thought about birth by sleep the more pants on head stupid the entire thing is, all the adults are dumb as rocks especially Eraqus who for SOME reason let his evil friend cause mayhem and didn't even suspect him until it was too late but the fact in kh3 he forgives him I just couldn;t.
lets not forget DDD

You guys are crazy, Kairi is cute as fuck in 3. In fact there's never been a time where she wasn't pure sex.

>>725318602
>The moment they added time travel bullshit, it was over.
Funny how that technically works, and how 3D literally ignores this ever happened just to autism its bullshit in.

>>725294971 (OP)
1 has alice, it wins

>>725317476
the complaint is always "Bad Game Feel" which is code for "this isn't an exact remake of a game i've been playing nonstop for over a decade." no kingdom hearts game feels as good as the contemporary dmc, ninja gaiden or whatever.
2 hands out nukes much more freely, including letting you start a fight with an immediate limit (which is fully invincible) and then go right into a transformation (which is invincible and fully heals you). the situation gauge is the first time this series has ever rewarded consistency instead of giving you immediate access to deleting everything in existence with no penalty. fighting something like dark inferno by repeatedly ramping up to better transformations, having used 7 different weapons in the same fight and then being able to dump finishers as a reward for managing the game properly is the best battle design the series has ever had by far.
the actual reason 3 wins though is that they finally remembered to let you do something other than mashing X. you can swap weapons mid-combo to go between guns to spears to yo yos to whatever the fuck. you can bounce off the wall which goes into a homing launcher. you can effectively teleport midair. you can air dash cancel your strings, which could itself be an attack depending on weapon. you can stock grand magic to use it as a combo finisher or to i-frame through enemy reprisals. there is so much meaningful freedom in 3. it's not shit design where transforming takes your moves away and replaces them with braindead mashing X to victory. it's borderline a real action game.

>>725294971 (OP)
Kh1 has soul overload and a perfect balance of the rpg elements and action combat
Kh2 is cringekino with a fun and fast action combat with great boss fights but at the cost of some soul and strategic rpg elements in combat

>>725318925
>it's borderline a real action game.
against what, exactly
the only actual content that even remotely takes advantage of all of these features and functions 3 adds on is the DLC super boss fights, which a majority of people do not touch. if that's your metric for what makes it a good game, then that means like 90% of the rest of the game is a player that can coast by easily on destroying nearly everything otherwise without much for brain patterns unless they gimp themselves with Critical, which still is balanced like dogshit. the point of comparison to KH2 remains in that KH2FM is the same boat of only actually making any of this matter in end/postgame or Critical, and at that point there isn't a "better" since both superboss sets work on entirely different grounds of mechanical depth and design beyond the baseline Revenge Value concepts.

>>725318925
the main problem i have with 3 is that its systems are disconnected from each other while 2 is THE synergy game.
the only time a shotlock has any meaningful impact outside of dealing damage is the two keyblade specific ones that allow you to heal with it. summons just blow shit up in different ways, ralph atleast lets you gain elevation but it still doesn't do anything for the rest of your kit.
in 2 you are in a constant loop where each gameplay element leads itself into further options while supporting each other.
3 has hints of that like the staff and the guns dealing more hits to build arrows faster.
but most of the time you just get a random pop up and blow shit up with it without any thought or flow to it.
the form switching was definitely the best part though.
you can tell that the osaka team took notes from 2 and implemented some stuff, but remained blind to other things. they fucked up so badly with attractions that their only idea to fix it was to give you the option to disable it alltogether.
there are other problems too like the gravity being too lenient, it feels and looks retarded to constantly be stuck in the air. or randomly getting air combos from the ground when you didn't even want to do that.

>>725318413
Donald and Goofy teasing Sora about how the various Disney romances reminded him of Kairi was cute

>>725294971 (OP)
They're completely different games. Literally apples to oranges.

>>725306706
Figuring out how to build a Gummi Ship for the very first time is a mindfuck of a science project

>>725313008
There's nothing to argue about when a fact is stated

>>725305602
>>725305742
>>725305840
I've played it in 2 PCs and had no frame drops, no crashes, no UI glitches, or anything. Yet a friend keeps having all UI graphics go to shit, and the game occasionally crash (same issues in KH2), so I'm pretty sure it's a hardware thing.

>>725318680
This

>>725308607
>>725308938
I think they’ll focus more on FF7 being 30 years old since coincidentally enough KH debuted when FF7 was only 5 years old

>>725306083
KH has barely relied on the Disney worlds for its plot since KH1, so yeah it'd absolutely work. The most the Disney worlds do besides nostalgiabaiting is either vaguely relate to the core premise of the current game (hearts, friendship, artificial hearts, emotions, etc), or serve as a lesson to be learned by the protagonist (mainly in BBS). In KH3 the Disney worlds straight up didn't matter for the main story, they were all filler except for 1, maybe 2 cutscenes where the org shows up to advance the plot.

However, I think if KH1 had released without the Disney part, it would not have been successful enough to spawn a franchise.

>>725316167
The Final Test of all your Combat Prowess

>>725306706
Nobungo introducing the pod room and struggling for 2 decades to justify it in the plot

>>725294971 (OP)

KH2 FM is peak KH combat but it lacks the beauty of simplicity in design from the original game. At it´s core KH is just about two childhood friends competing over a girl´s heart. One goes about his journey helping others and being helped in return, the other obsessively fights alone and pushing himself with a heavy heart. All this while travelling through Disney worlds filled with light and darkness. You can elaborate if you want but that kind of strong relationship between protagonist and antagonist, that shared past it makes for a good, albeit simple story that just works.

KH2, as mentioned, has a great combat system and the journey to find Riku is not bad at all but the whole organization XIII thing, all those attempts of explaining the nature of the heart and nobodies and whatnot is just fat. Ansem, Xenmas and later Xeanort... all of it becomes more convoluted as the story progress with no real clear direction. And when it gets one it involves a key blade war and even more masters and whatnot.

By the end it´s not really a personal journey anymore and Sora is just moving through the motions by very generic heroic motivations.

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1 had a soul that no other game in the franchise had, it's hard to explain.

Someone should copy Kingdom Hearts but instead of it being a Square/Disney cross over, it's like Atlus/Shounen Jump or sumin.
The only other cross over is Smash and it's a party masher...

>>725318602
>>725318704
Dude, you know what angers me even more than the time travel stuff?
The out of order spliced way that showed the story to the player, it's like they really wanted to make as incomprehensible as possible, Jesus Christ i hate that game.

>>725294971 (OP)
I don't bother ranking the Kingdom Hearts games.

I just know I don't care about any of the other games.

>>725320420
>However, I think if KH1 had released without the Disney part, it would not have been successful enough to spawn a franchise.
Tons of normalfag-adjacent girls played it who would later become Disney adults, so that definitely helped with initial success.

>>725294971 (OP)
How do you even play KH? There's a billion games across two billion consoles. Is there some sort of definitive collection?

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1>KH2
KH2FM>KH1FM
I don't need to explain.

>>725294971 (OP)
I remember my first time with the series was with KH2. Can you imagine my face figuring out what the fuck is going on during the Roxas events? But I was liking it still.

>>725321047
playing 1 wouldn't have changed anything. i skipped CoM and was just as confused. i didn't like the prologue the first time around and was glad to get to Sora. now a days i appreciate it though.

Do I miss out on anything by playing KH1FM on PS4 vs PS2? I'm wary because remasters often leave out little soulful details because the new devs didn't work on the original game.

>>725315271
>you can do that at any point after returning to Twilight Town
but Roxas can't

>>725319745
shotlocks cancel other actions. they have both obvious uses like damage or group aoe, as well as subtler uses like using slow projectiles to extend a combo or using a shotlock that teleports sora to the enemy while invincible and doing damage.
summoning genie in kh2 turns the game into mashing out Limit? commands until either your meter empties or everything ia dead. every limit is basically that too, except you mash both X and triangle. i like some of the limits and summons in 2: peter pan can extend combos, donald lets you shoot projectiles on demand while attacking. most of them are just free damage with endless i-frames and simplistic qte mashing.
the situation gauge fills faster when you're hitting harder. in base form, it's often best to burn through your mp to fill it faster, as long as you're using enough physical attacks to actually trigger the transformation. then once you have it, the new weapon will fill it lightning fast, and then you just switch off to keyblade 2 to trigger that transformation. that's very similar to the mp > drive > mp cycle 2 is trying to have, except it works correctly in 3.
the shittiest transformation in 2 - the one that disables blocking, dodging and all spells including healing - costs 3 drive. the good ones cost more. you would be hard-pressed to ever fill 3 bars during a fight even if you were intentionally spamming limits to be in mp cooldown as much as possible. most likely you would kill everything before you ever get the 3rd bar.
this means you aren't actually cycling resources during a fight. if you transformed, it's almost certainly because you had drive stocked before the fight.
this is fundamentally worse than earning it during the fight. kh2 is often like that. it's not an action game: a game about on reacting to the enemy. it's about preparation and picking the solution from a menu: an rpg.

>>725320767
Doesn't help that it also smacks retcons in there. Like Black Cloak Riku at Monstro, which makes no fucking sense because Black Cloaks weren't even a thing til KH2, but Riku just goes on about it as hating his KH1 memories. If you pay attention to anything at all in the games it all becomes a gobbledygook nonsense once 3D and 3 effectively take whatever the hell they feel like from previous titles and then rewrite them to new shit, with time travel on top muddying it further. And can't forget characters also pulling new shit out of their ass from thin air, like the mysterious childhood friend of Isa and Lea that Xehanort experimented on that doesn't even get foreshadowed in mobile shit. Or Sora literally rewriting reality alongside Kairi for seemingly no explained reason but the power of waking + his retard heart, and this is different from normal time travel and also not explained well at the same time two separate characters making meta jokes about it while everyone else acts like it didn't happen.

Christ fuck how has this series not given me an aneurysm

>>725321223
no. they lost the original assets for KH1 and basically remade it from scratch but it's faithful to a point that most people wouldn't notice a difference. you also get 60fps on PS4.
the only downside between KH1FM (PS2) and KH1FM in 1.5 (PS4) compared to the original KH2 (PS2) is that the heartless have uglier recolors. but it's still worth it for the extra content and QoL changes.

>>725320927
Best way to play imo is the definitive collection on PS4/PS5. PC version can crash occasionally, PS3 version has awful load times on drive forms and stuff, and Switch only has cloud versions.

>>725294971 (OP)
The entire experience of 2 Feels lazy and mediocre compared to 1. The dialogue, the cut-scenes, the story progression, the world design, the characters writing - all a huge stepdown.
The only thing KH2 arguably has over 1 is the combat but that alone doesn't make up for its other shortcomings.

>>725309516
>>725309525
I wish to clarify, I mean specifically the first visit/encounter in Traverse Town where you first meet Donald and Goofy.
You've already probably seen every area but need to backtrack with no real rhyme or reason until you run into Donald and Goofy. The encounters reset so you also just wander around and there is no feeling of player agency in progressing the story.

I should get around to a full series playthrough since they're mostly all on PC now and I bought them on release and never got around to it
I've only played base 1,2,3 so far but I remember liking 2 the most. 3 was ffffine but I just didn't like the ride summons

>>725306706
>Platforming is ass. Even as someone who's played the games several times, this is just a fact.
>Atlantica is a bad looking world with not enough variance, which is why they needed to put giant tridents to give an idea of where you need to go, and the dolphin is poorly explained. Also Ursula's fight is still confusing to newcomers to this day despite Triton telling you what to do
>The story of Tarzan is basically just you running between the camp up to the tree house over and over before you can proceed forward, it could've been designed a little better
>Captain Hook's ship is too cramped and the camera has troubles
>Pooh's mini games are generally bad
Those are some that come to mind.

>>725320068
how would one fix that?
I've got a 13900k with a 3070ti

>>725321223
ps2 Jap release had pantis shoot that can't be seen in english I assume

>>725322238
fuck if I know. For the longest time I thought it was an AMD thing but I guess not.
I have a 3050.

>>725321424
Valor Form lets you cut your combos short both in the air and on the ground, which is perfect for staggering enemies with Super Armor or really anything you want to stagger. Forms costing different values also means that they don't consume all your Drive, meaning even if you don't recharge any Drive, you get multiple transformations. You can definitely recharge a lot more Drive than just 3 or 4 bars in a fight but that obviously depends on where you are in the game and probably even which difficulty. Then you have Trinity + Magnet as an option too if you really want to juice up Drive. Which again is a Limit working in tandem with Magic to fill up resources for another mechanic. This stuff is so based. And since mob fights naturally let you do way more hits than a single target fight, it's pretty normal to have full stacked Drive when you reach a boss. (worst case you use a Drive Recovery which are plentiful but you really don't even need them)
i have to admit i didn't play 3 nearly as much as 2 so idk what you mean by shotlocks cancel actions, i know that you can cancel out of like air step by aiming the shotlock, but actually using the shotlock never felt like it was connected to anything else in the game beyond the healing ones.
next time i play i'll try using shotlocks for i-frame positioning.
i agree that some limits have too many i-frames in 2, when you still have full control over Sora. Summons handled this well though, like Genie or Stitch, where you get their benefits while still playing the game but in an ehanced version. I really wish 3 had this at all.

>>725306706
The gummi ship, all the Agrabah bosses, and everything about Atlantica.
>>725311985
>Monstro
I've never understood the hate for this world. It's pretty charming and represents the first major plot occurrence since leaving Traverse Town.

>>725321223
KH is one of the rare franchises where the remakes/remasters/ports are either as good or better (think some of the burgerland censorship even got removed in later releases).

The only exception IMO would be CoM. The card combat worked great for the GBA 2D style, but it's kinda clunky to move around in KH2 engine while using cards to fight.

>>725322514
It's neat to look at, it's just horribly boring.

>>725322397
I heard when it first came out AMD cards had a lot more issues but the patch fixed it, I wonder if running the first patch might work, worth a try.

>>725294971 (OP)
No debate, both are great, especially together. Glad there wasn't any other Kingdom Hearts game that came out after 2 to ruin the series, 2 ended on a perfect note.

>>725322618
Fair enough.

>>725321698
as soon as you see the cutscene where the guy dies, you can just go back to talk to cid, to get to the leon fight quick. the donald and goofy walking around cutscenes are just neat little flavor

>>725296923
>KH2 at release was garbage. It was press X and Triangle to win
When is this meme going to end?

>>725322837
Adding to this, all you need to do is kill 5 shadows, go back to Cid, and you'll be able to activate the Leon boss fight.

>>725307057
>cool gimmick introduced for a single world
>used for the final boss
Kinda kino ngl. You just don't see that kind of thing in games anymore

>>725322462
valor has its uses especially as the cheapest one. i use it a lot earlier in the game. my point was just that i would never ie start a fight with 0 drive and build up to a valor form use. it has to be set up ahead of time.
>idk what you mean by shotlocks cancel actions,
the easiest way to see it is during a multi-hit finisher where sora is spinning around like crazy. you wouldn't be able to dodge until he's finished attacking. you can charge up the shotlock though and cancel the melee attack into it. it could save you from a boss revenge attack or just let you extend a combo. kind of like using drive activation or a limit during your combos in 2.
>Summons handled this well though, like Genie or Stitch, where you get their benefits while still playing the game but in an ehanced version.
i do like those but they're very passive. if you have stitch you just play normally but stitch randomly does useful things. it's not super engaging for an action game.

>>725322462
I'll add one thing that i personally appreciate but many people might see as a negative. I like that Drive Forms are tied to Donald and Goofy. Because now they become a resource that you have to play around.
For example, you can keep Donald off the field and have a different Disney char in, to make sure that when you want to transform into Master Form, you can safely swap in Donald and go into Master.
Or you just heal them if you have cure/items available. But it goes beyond just the HP bar. It's their positioning aswell.
For Example, you fight Data Xaldin, you use Donald's Limit and immediatly after the Limit, Donald dies because the Limit's end positioned him inside Xaldin's storm barrier, one shotting him
Now you can't transform. So instead, you have to time when to use the Limit, so that at the end of the Limit Donald gets out of the Limit at a safe distance from Xaldin, and you can transform without having to revive him first.
These sorts of things will probably piss most players off, but i like this micro managing of your party members while using them as a resource.

Should Chernabog been the final boss instead of Ansem?

>>725322960
Never because I was fucking there. Proud Mode in original release KH2 was a brainless mash-fest. This is the only reason that Demyx and Sephiroth stood out in the fight roster: because they were pretty much the only fights you couldn't mash through effortlessly.
DANCE WATER DANCE!

>le 2 had better combat meme
Why do people say this dumb shit? 1's combat was far more strategic

>>725323715
Don't forget Xaldin to an extent.
>what do you mean I have to push square or use reflect? Bullshit mechanics doood!

>>725312065
That's one of the things I genuinely like about old games. There was no homogenised/default layout so every game came up with it's own shit. I know it sounds dumb but it made games feel different from one another, even if one form of controls was better than another.

>>725323821
Spamming magic and elixirs isn't strategic

>>725316167
Umm excuse me but you're supposed to be getting raped in that room, not the one doing the raping.

>>725318680
>she will never look at you like this
why even live?

>>725318925
I really liked how the system rewards being agressive.
It felt rewarding to take the risk to counter as much as possible during a boss' attack to build up more meter.
My only real complaint is that I wish it had more utility spell like magnet/reflect/kh1 auro/stop all the spells feel kinda samey to me.

>>725323309
>if you have stitch you just play normally but stitch randomly does useful things.
I wouldn't say you play normally, because 1 you can't go into Drive or Limits without canceling out first. 2 you have sheer infinite MP which becomes much more spammy like Bambi in 1. And 3, Stitch protects you by canceling enemy attacks, which means you can play more aggressively but also get a feeling for what Stitch can/will and can't/won't deflect. For example in the white rooms leading up to the Data Org, Stitch will consistently deflect the Dragoon attacks, and when you deflect a Dragoon, you get their RC. That sort of thing. It is passive in the sense that you press less things but it's active in a game sense sort of way where you can take advantage of his strengths and play with them in mind.
But i guess if you don't enjoy the Summons, then you lose the option of going into them at 3 Drive and Valor isn't good in that fight or you don't feel like using it, then yeah you're fucked until you build more lol.
I think base Sora is still fun as fuck in 2 though. In 3 i always wanted to get out of Base Form quickly and get to my Forms, in 2 i don't mind playing just base Sora for a while.
If there's 1 thing i hope they improve in 4 is the base combo modifiers. the free update that came with Remind helped but man some of those initial finishers sucked. I hate Magic Flash and that triple stabbing one so much.
The best feeling thing in base form are reprisals.

>>725323821
Le aero and air combos face and curing 50 times. Even worse in FM where Leaf Bracer means there's no point to dodging.

I think I like 1 a bit more than 2, but the Toy Story world in 3 is the peak of the series in my opinion.

>>725294971 (OP)
Give me a qrd of the plot points of this franchise before I decide to play it.

>>725294971 (OP)
2 because I'm not a soi chugging faggot that thinks finding a chest right in front of you but it's on a platform is peak game design, therefore I have no biases for 1.

>>725312065
Back then not everyone had a controller with the sticks. Many had the basic controller.

>>725294971 (OP)
both have foundational gameplay problems that are partially solved by their FM.
pure gameplay: kh2fm
gameplay progression: kh1fm
boss fights: kh2fm by a country mile
level variety / novelty platforming: kh1fm by a country mile

kh1fm also has a much worse camera than kh2fm. i still really like kh1 because its simple combat is charming as hell and still more complicated than it looks when you actually use all the mechanics the game gives you, but kh2 is a masterclass of the combat system they were only starting to craft in kh1

>>725323821
1's strategy gets deleted once you have Leaf Bracer and MP Rage
at that point dodging an attack and getting hit by an attack make no difference anymore

I've played the shit out of these games on the PS2, PS3, and PS4.
I'll be honest, it's really hard to pick but KH1 had a better story, pace and world selection while KH2 just has far better gameplay

>>725318925
i like kh3's systems on paper (and when they're legitimately stressed in Re:Mind, which has some of the best combat in the series to date), but on release, magic and attraction flows are way too powerful, and the animations don't flow or pop in the same way they did in kh1, kh2, or even kh re:coded.

the swing arcs feel way more awkwardly timed, where the implied weight of the swing makes it feel like a toy. in contrast, kh1 made the keyblade feel like a very solid bat, and in kh2, it's clear that it's still a bat, but sora can manipulate the weight really masterfully. it's why sora feels so much more powerful in 2 than in 3, because the animations show off just how much adept he is at swinging his sword

>>725318962
KH2 has a fuckton of soul, but it's all loaded into the original parts of the setting (org xiii, twilight town, the world that never was, the dragon sequence with xemnas, etc.)

>>725320625
it's because kingdom hearts 1 is a coming of age story that uses mini recaps of the disney movie plots to teach lessons to its young shounen protag. it's a story about growing up that hits hard as a kid, and it's a story about finding meaning out of nostalgia that hits hard as an adult.

>>725320927
>Is there some sort of definitive collection?
yes
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2552430/KINGDOM_HEARTS_HD_1525_ReMIX/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2552440/KINGDOM_HEARTS_HD_28_Final_Chapter_Prologue/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2552450/KINGDOM_HEARTS_III__Re_Mind_DLC/
this is the order that's best to play them in ("release" order)
if you're feeling based then play the original chain of memories instead of RE:chain of memories

>>725321223
the only problem with the recent remasters is that you lose the reverb echo in the audio. it's not a huge deal if you've never played the originals, but it'll bug you if you grew up on them like me

>>725324665
water is kind of disappointing since no one will ever use it defensively when you have jillions of better defensive options
the spells are distinctive though. you finally have status where ice will freeze, you have flowmotion off the ice and wind, and wind is a launcher.
>>725324717
the summons in 2 aren't bad but i'd rather not rely on an AI to fight for me. it's awkward when you summon chicken little and you don't know if he's going to AOE everything in the room or just fuck around being basically useless. i'd rather have a move that is maybe weaker but fully under my control in an action game.
his base form attacks in 3 are a bit slow and weak as a nudge towards using other moves. flowmotion, spells and shotlocks are available without transforming, and once you get the transformation, you could just stay transformed forever if you really want.

>>725325407
even the Disney worlds
Winnie Pooh has 100x more sovl in 2 than in 3.
that sliding mini game while going through the book was kino
Timeless River is pvre sovl aswell
level design wise nothing beats KH1's Wonderland though

playing KH2 without playing COM first is the truest COM experience one could ever live

>>725323821
no it wasn't. 1 deprived you of tools and had very clunky animation locks that punished you super hard for missing an air attack (e.g. colosseum flyers and taking 5 missiles to the face). it all goes out the window once you get cure and aero though LOL.
kh2 not only had more options, but each option had deep synergies with magic and your keyblade combo strings. magic itself was revamped in such a cool way where you didn't get access to it if you were a scrub and needed to spam curaga.

kh2 is unironically a masterpiece of a combat system that only has like 1-2 dedicated attack buttons.

>>725320927
This hasn't been an issue for a long time. All the games can be played on PS4/5, Xbone, and Steam, save for Coded and Days which have movies to represent them (though I think someone actually made a modded Days emulator so people could play it easier). The only version you shouldn't play is Switch because its cloud based and the controls lag.

>>725325881
I agree that having more control is almost always better. Chicken Little to me is just early game crowd control before Magnet, but even should he not cooperate, he will always be useful because you heal while attacking, which is 100% in your control.
I would never say that KH2 had perfect summons or Limits, far from it, it's just that 3 felt like a big step backwards in that regard instead of improving it.

I'm replaying KH3 and honestly it holds up pretty well

>>725323825
Entirely true, he was actually the third one that came to mind (so I added the "pretty much"). I only didn't list him by name because as you know, after the square or reflect (and at release it was never Reflect because the MP bar was for Cure and nothing else) it goes right back to being triangle nine times and nine times.

>>725324813
The first two games are simple:
You're a young boy playing on an island with your two friends when your world is destroyed by mysterious monsters. You meet Donald and Goofy and embark on a universe-spanning journey to find your friends and restore your world, passing through a bunch of Disney Classic worlds along the way.

>>725326248
people should play re:coded though. it's the best command deck kingdom hearts game ever made. h.a.n.d. legitimately made better attack animations than the osaka team did for kh3.

>>725326413
the game is overhated because it was kinda underbaked on release and had very so-so performance (you could only get 60 fps on PS4 Pro, and even then it wasn't advertised and certainly wasn't locked). after they added critical mode and revised how attraction flows affected combat, it came together way better.
still has the kh2 problem where the middle third is just kinda blegh compared to the start and end of the game

>>725326681
They kinda half assed the DLC implementation. The boss fights are masterpiece level but it being completly disconnected from the base game, having to load seperate files, no optional dungeon that leads to those fights, and having to replay half the ending just to get the new ending? All those things were bad imo.
I would've rather received a real KH3FM revision with rebalancing and proper implementation of the new content. Still gushed while playing through the fights for the first time though.

>>725326947
that's true, though the yozora fight and epilogue were amazing. i just want the team to be confident making mechanically demanding fights again, for the new saga to focus on being as self-contained as possible, and for us to get a better utada song than the kh3 opening

>>725327351
i can not believe we went from Simple and Clean and Sanctuary to Skrillex man...

>>725326681
KH3's biggest problem is that it is KH3

>>725326947
DLC also doesn't really let you get used to the controls of the other playable characters, so if you're on Critical good fucking luck fighting enemies only to realize spell shortcuts can't be remapped and you just have to get used to whatever controls you have.

>>725327427
I blame the developers for wanting to make KH3 "be with the times".
Dont forget that KH2 originally came out on 2005 and KH3 wouldnt be out until 2019.
Thats a 13 year gap and lets be honest, a lot had happened during that time.

>>725321257
technically, his heart can, though, and put your heart into it is what skating free is all about man

gonna try to finish Hollow Knight, keep the thread alive bros

>>725327427
it's funny that they put Don't Think Twice in all the trailers and buried the skrillex song as much as possible
i wonder if they heard how shit it was and demanded another song with just utada

>>725327570
idk playing it 4 years after it initially released, it's definitely grown on me. it's plot isn't always good, but it never veers into DDD territory. the combat has some rough patches, but the team clearly figured out how to make an engaging system with breathtaking fights by the end. i'm pretty hopeful for kh4

>>725327972
"Face My Fears" is very clearly not a Kingdom Hearts song. "Simple and Clean" and "Sanctuary" are both very different types of songs, but they both feel very appropriate for the series.

>>725328137
>the team clearly figured out how to make an engaging system with breathtaking fights by the end. i'm pretty hopeful for kh4
This was me after fighting Zodiac Phantom Aqua in 0.2 and exploring the realm of darkness.
And then none of the worlds in 3 were as cool, no cosmetic customization and almost none of the bosses came even close to Zodiac Phantom Aqua.
They've shown they can make good shit, but it still feels like a coin flip whether or not they will.

>>725306706
The degradation of Sora's personality with each game after Chain of Memories to something like Goku.

Sora was originally a moody, sorta mean, grounded and sarcastic kid who loved his friends. Dream Drop Sora would have taken Riku's hand in KH1

>>725328137
I for one am very happy to know that the PS2 gameplay was able to be translated well into what was then modern graphics

>>725328302
To be fair, the team was clearly stressed by Nomura being pulled for FF15 before getting injected back into KH3. That and they hadn't made an HD Kingdom Hearts game for like decade at that point.

>>725328405
Goku also deteriorated. He was an uneducated child in DB by Z he was a real fighter with a brain, in Super he got lobotomized.

>>725328435
yeah, the only thing that changes is that the maps have to get a little larger, but I appreciate that they are still levels instead of being some stupid open world horseshit

>>725328405
>Dream Drop Sora would have taken Riku's hand in KH1
I mean, KH1 Sora DID try and failed. So he was inches away from that canonically anyway.

>>725328493
Good thing Nomura isn't getting pulled to VII Remake and the latest Dissidia gacha slop then while having his mobile KH games canceled.

>>725328579
Yeah and I like how theres only one "open world" level in the game and it actually fits in that context

>>725328405
KH2 Sora is pretty cool IMO. He's dealing with an identity crisis while coming to terms with forgiving Riku, while Riku is hiding away in shame. He's definitely goofier and less of a brat as in KH1, but I don't think he's a blank slate or generic hero at all.
IMO DDD completely ruined him. KH3 has its moments

>>725296923
>simple and clean
indeed

>>725328594
During the hand scene they cut to his face for like, a second then back to Riku. Sora's face is like "wait a second, this shit isn't right". Sora was picking up on the bullshit.

>>725328782
DDD makes a lot more sense when you realize it's really a Riku game with Sora as the secondary playable character. And I say that knowing Riku's bosses are generally worse.

>>725328657
I think he's still an art director for VIIR, but yeah it's clear that he isn't being stretched between teams. If Yozora and Verum Rex were peak Nomura in this era of KH, then a KH4 that could tap into all of his time and energy could make a serious contender for best game in the series.

>>725328657
If I was Nomura I'd make KH4 my swan song.
He's getting old

I like KH1...
>Heavy Sora
>Tech Points
>Hollow Bastion
>Worlds are generally spacious, game feels like a platformer

But KH2?
>Drive Forms are cool
>Gummi levels are way better
>Hades' Underworld Tournament Mode
>Timeless River having flawless '20s inspired cartoon graphics and sound effects
>1000 Heartless War
>Xemnas having like 5 or 6 different phases
>Sora/Riku teamup
>Cavern of Remembrance
>Data Org
>Terra
>Fantasia Alla Marcia, the entire staff roll plays like a goodbye to this era of Disney
>"My Summer Vacation...Is over..."
I have to give it to 2. The high points are so fucking high...

>>725328913
I was being sarcastic, i do think Nomura is still being stressed the fuck out by Square. Maybe to a lesser degree than during XV/KH3 but i'm sure he's still working at max capacity regardless while juggling projects.
He's the Creative Producer for Dissidia Duellum, he just had his game canceled and has to probably reroute those resources into something else, even if he's not director for VII:R he will still be busy with that especially nearing its conclusion, then KH4 ontop of it and who knows what else, plus him getting older and working like that for decades now.

>>725328782
I'm not saying he's a blank slate I'm saying they made him retarded and very "pure" that was never who Sora was. I'm fine with KH2 Sora, but you could start seeing the cracks during the prologue end when DiZ told Roxas Sora was too nice for his own good.

>>725328265
Face My Fears is goated, what are you on about?

>>725294971 (OP)
never played 'em.

>>725329282
>entire staff roll plays like a goodbye to this era of Disney.
To think that it looks better than what we have now

Feels like the minority but I kind of hate that roxas is just ventus, I liked it when he was assumed to be soras nobody (and yes I didn't like the VA changes they did in the HD ports to reflect that ventus change)

>>725295119
Same so fpbp

Not gonna lie, I felt like I was saying goodbye to an old friend when I saw this scene for the first time.

>>725331379
i did not enjoy KH3's graveyard story and fights for the most part but this was great

>>725331379
no one's ever really gone

a series that sounds better to play than actually playing it

>>725294971 (OP)
1 has some jank but is overall the better game.

DUAL WIELD

>>725331771
The only antagonists from the Xehanort saga that have any relevance at this point are Xigbar, Marluxia, Larxene, Demyx, and Luxord
And thats because of the mobile games

Is Goofy /ourguy/

No hetero white male would ever touch a Kingdom Hearts game.

>>725333019
I've been playing the games for almost 15 years and I'm as white as they come.
Also I want to bang Aqua

>>725333147
No you want to BE Aqua you ninny

>>725333019
It's true I'm a white male and I hate all women in KH especially Aqua

Kingdom Hearts 2 has by far the best final boss sequence in the entire series, and it's a frontrunner for the most well presented final boss sequence in gaming (at the very least 2000s gaming). It's not the hardest, but there are few final fight gauntlets that match the production value and sheer scale of the fight.
KH2's final fight is legitimately the vidya equivalent of the last 5 episodes of a high quality shounen anime.

>>725333474
No fucking way I want to bang that tomboy prone bone

>>725294971 (OP)
1 has this track. Which means its superior in nearly every way.
I don't know what it is about this theme but it just relaxes me immediately.
I'm not even a huge kingdom hearts fan. I played through one and two by renting them a few times in a row, back when that was still a thing and never really revisited them. But the Traverse Town theme is like a shot of valium straight into my ears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ8y81D_IGY&list=RDQQ8y81D_IGY&start_radio=1

This series' problem is that it won't end. The demographic who grew up and follow the series are getting too old for it.

>>725333019
>white male
>not White man
Found the jew boy.

>>725334145
I'm 35 and will play this shit until I die

>>725334145
kingdom hearts 3 literally wrapped up the major threads. the new one is a completely different adventure

>>725333692
KH1 is significantly more kino, its only flaw being final phase Ansem looks fucking stupid
>game comes full circle fighting the final boss on Destiny Island
>rematch with the first boss of the game
>finding Donald and Goofy in those pitch black rooms and they yell out "Sora!"

>>725334268
>still playing as sora
>completely different adventure

I still don't know when you would ever summon Genie.

>>725333915
Both twilight town is atleast as good.
https://youtu.be/CSdNxXGUaRU?si=7cz0QUBwfA5kLFLB

>>725334421
Naw sounds like a lullaby
Traverse Town is like smooth jazz. Its calming without being boring. Has a nice mixup in the middle.
Twilight Town sounds like the track they play during a romance anime when they have a nice moment which ultimately brings them closer but doesn't give a conclusive end. Its just sort of audible filler.

>>725294971 (OP)
>Story
1
>OST
Toss up
>Level design
1
>Combat
2
>Combat arenas
1
>Boss fights
2
>Comfy factor
1
>Replayability
2

OBJECTIVE TRUTH BTW

>>725334285
Nah the Sora and Riku tag team alone makes it better.

>>725324795
if only zurg was a boss and the entire world didnt take place in a location that isnt in any toy story anything, why the fuck wasnt the location in al's toy barn or even sunnyside?

>do you prefer your heart or your lungs?
Fuck off I love them both

>>725331379
This and the Xemnas sendoff were like the only two good character moments in the entire game.

>>725334285
I mean, you won't get me saying that KH1's ending sequence isn't amazing, but KH2's entire final act isn't just loaded with more, but with a fuckton of flavor:
>the world that never was full of grand architecture but lifeless monochrome, literally reflecting the (fake) nature of the Nobodies in XIII
>Dark City
>samurai nobodies
>facing the angst of a life borrowed cut short with the Roxas fight
>mourning a life he remembers but never lived, for a man who mourns a life inherited but never lived
>real ansem's sacrifice, showing himself to be willing to shed his own blood when the game built him up to be an impersonal, cold asshole
>confident sora tearing through chunks of concrete, soaring through the air and doing stunt dodges
>"final" goodbyes from namine and roxas, turning over the regrets of the past into a new future (literally signifying the move from OG kingdom hearts into a new vision for the series)
>DRAGON FIGHTS
>1v1 duel, going up and down skyscrapers
>insanely well choreographed man v man fighting with xemnas grabbing you, slashing at you, chasing you in midair, aiming at you, etc.

>fight leaves the duo in limbo potentially forever
>silence provokes the question they've been avoiding since they saw each other
>they forgive each other for the sins of the past
>it literally opens a door back home
>their acceptance and forgiveness literally brings them back home to Destiny Island, after they spent 3+ games running away from it.

Kingdom Hearts 2 is unfathomable levels of kino and all insistence otherwise is a lethal dose of copium

>>725306083
In 3 you could tell that Disney was really holding the leash on their properties tightly. You are barely even involved in anything on the Frozen world, you just run around and are present for a few major events without taking part in them.

>>725334341
yes, and?

>>725294971 (OP)
1 is simply better. Better worlds, better integration of Disney, more cohesive and simply story, better exploration. It's near perfect
but 2 is just cooler so I like it more

there should have only been 1 KH game
KH2+ should have been divorced from Disney and just been an SE crossover action franchise, they only have like 5-10 hours of actual story content in each one anyway

>>725294971 (OP)
1 > KH2 Prologue > the rest of KH2

>>725323821
That is correct. Tech points highlight the real way to a fight. Blocking, hitting weakpoints and hitting magical weakness.

>>725327427
>>725327972
>>725328265
Face my fears is great, it just can't compete with sanctuary

>>725315151
yeah it fucking sucked I had a similar experience
played kh1 and kh2 as a kid on ps2, loved it, had lots of conversations at the lunch table with a friend about whether kh1 or kh2 was better
i was team kh2 he was team kh1
enjoyed 1fm and 2fm through the ps3 ports, roxas va weirded me out i remembered him sounding angrier and confirmed they replaced the voice clips, wtf square
got 3 on launch day i was so hyped
then when i started playing I found the gameplay felt like dogshit and the plot pissed me off
dropped it after potc world iirc, crab questline and boat just killed any remaining patience i had.
i'd rather play 2fm again then try 3 once more

>>725326192
putting it on a different system was this genius??

kh2 combat is brilliant
>the fact that each spell combos out of melee
>the fact that different spells have different purposes for combos or disrupting enemy patterns
>the fact that curaga only uses whatever MP you have left so you're encouraged to really weigh whether you wanna spend it instead of casting spells like reflega
>the fact that drive limits restore health and MP
>the fact that drive limit gain goes higher when your MP bar is under cooldown so you're encouraged to be as aggressive as you can be all the time
>the fact that you juggle this system alongside crowd control, revenge values, etc.
kh2 combat is legitimately too smart for kh fans

>>725335178
the bitch who wrote frozen was head of disney animation at the time and castrated them to protect her perfect masterpiece film
pixar didn't give a fuck, which is why those levels work

>>725335991
This, it's a great song. People just can't see it because they dislike Skrillex in his other shit.

>>725335178
Toy Box and The Caribbean are the best Disney worlds in the series

>>725336658
amazing what happens when you let a team work on a direct sequel and apply lessons learned from their last work
Osaka team must hate being compared to kingdom hearts 2 so often, living in that games shadow trying desperately to make the command deck and flowmotion systems a thing being told by the community that system sucks give us drive forms back

>>725337328
the funniest part is that h.a.n.d. literally did command deck better than osaka LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzqJ3zdcvCU

>>725295928
>>725295119
This.
The first game's story actually followed its own universe's rules, had actual logic to its storytelling/plot and character motivations.
KH2 was like playing some faggot's fantasy fiction of the first game with illogical decisions and illogical character motivations for the sake of "looking cool" or looking like Gackt or whatever faggot shit was in style in Japan at the time.
Not to mention much better voice acting in the first game.
Billy fucking Zane as Ansem, and yes that character's name is Ansem. Not whatever retconned bullshit Nomura creamed his gay tranny pants over in the 2nd game.

TL;DR:
KH1 = art
KH2 = fake and gay

>>725337328
>>725337435
I don't want to say Osaka is talentless but why are they so gapped by h.a.n.d. and old Tokyo? Surely making a game not floaty can't be hard

>>725337435
why weren't they ever hired back?

>>725315151
Nah I'm the same, my KH3 save is still stuck on the big hero world the game lacks that "grab" factor KH1 and KH2 had

>>725337435
man recoded was so fun
the plot was so bad but fuck was it enjoyable to play
the dungeon crawling was awesome

>>725323715
>couldn't mash through Sephiroth
i did exactly that though? i just spammed reflect and he killed himself.

>>725337494
>KH2 was like playing some faggot's fantasy fiction of the first game with illogical decisions and illogical character motivations
Examples?

>>725315151
I said it earlier on this thread and I'll say it again:
>Kingdom Hearts 3's biggest problem is that it's Kingdom Hearts 3.

>>725337620
recoded has some of the best gameplay in the series. its story is forgettable, but it was honestly so slick that I didn't care. i remember having my mind blown that it was so much more comfy to play than 358/2 days.

>>725337506
h.a.n.d actually learned from their previous kh game 358. that game's combat was terrible but they learned and did a complete 180 in quality
old tokyo just had an allstar cast since it was still prime era squaresoft and beginning of square enix
osaka doesn't learn or take feedback from their previous games, they fuck up, dont learn and continue to fuck up
im convinced its that japanese pride thing "no our teams system is way cooler than that other division you guys just dont see the quality of it"

>>725337691
If you ever cast Reflect a single time in your first playthrough of KH2 then you are already in the top 0.1 percentile of all players of the game.

>>725337506
every kingdom hearts game is floaty. 3 is floatier because they want you to use the double jump, air dash, wall run, trampoline moves, plunging attacks and so on

>>725337797
i remember vividly taking my ds for a trip and choosing between 358 and recoded i chose recoded in a heartbeat to replay
it was just fun and arcady unlike 358 which felt like a slog
sky dragon still haunts me

>>725338064
next your gonna tell me most people didn't use magnet either.

The instagram style loading screens for KH3 are some of the most stupidest shit ever but it gives me that stupid grin because it exerts so much "How do you do fellow kids?" energy

>>725338064
I don't think I used a spell other than Cure and maybe magnet for some easy levelling when I played it as a kid.

>>725296042
>2 has better gameplay.
the only thing that matters

>>725306706
People will praise the level design and then you play it and the platforming is putrid dog shit

>>725338097
no, this isn't true. kh2fm is incredibly grounded, and there's a very apparent weight to everything you do. in kh3, the combat is floaty, but you have way more options in the air, so this isn't a detriment to combat "complexity"
what is terrible is that kh3 sora has all these ugly fucking arcs he launches his body into along with the keyblade.

>>725336658
kh2 combat is fucking god tier
such a shame we haven't seen anything as good since

>>725338293
>midwit take
kys

>>725306706
>Atlantica
>Tarzan world
>Final Mix synthesis
>Final Mix ability level fuckery
>Neverland is confusing the first time
>cannot get Thundaga or most of the "-ga" spells without completing optional challenges.
Also I beat Sephiroth when I was piss drunk lmao

>>725338480
kh2 is extremely floaty. play its contemporaries: dmc, ninja gaiden. sora feels like a helium balloon by comparison.

kh1 gummi is actually pretty fun if you upgrade the ship
still piss easy of course but you can make it go fast as fuck

>>725338141
Magnet was a 0.01 percentile skill, until you were flash-levelling at the end.

>>725338238
Ah, speak of the devil! Hello, fellow honest KH2 player.

>>725338732
>upgrade gummi ship and convert it into a total dreadnaught that would make a Star Destroyer blush

Why couldn't they recreate the combat they used for KH3? BBS combat fucking sucks.

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1 is a better game but KH2 has a better gameplay with a perfect closure. Also, FUCK BBS and everything else.

>>725338843
Different teams anon

>>725338842
hell yeah the gummi segments of these games are underrated

>>725337512
hand busy with supporting Square projects or NEO Twewy

Kingdom Hearts 1 is the only game that actually delivers on the whole SquareEnix x Disney premise.

Everything made afterwards is just Nomura using the IP to trojan horse his pretentious chuunislop into young impressionable minds.

>>725338684
ninja gaiden has the shortest strings of any mainstream action game. dmc is just as air-combo happy if not more so than kingdom hearts, it's just that kingdom hearts automatically converts you to a ground-to-air via context. it's not airtime that makes kh3 sora floaty. it's the weight and options out of your melee strings. that's why even grounded combat in birth by sleep is "floaty." in contrast, kh2 is crisp and snappy

>>725338293
This is not true though, since KH2 also has like 17 hours of cutscenes, which is double the cutscenes of KH1. It spends a LOT more time pulling you out of the improved gameplay.

I like playing all kh games they are just fun

>>725338097
1 and 2 are incredibly grounded that it's hard to actually keep up air time

dmc games are floatier than kh1 and 2 I will never understand this nonsense
now kh3 that game wants you in the air almost 100% off the time it's crazy how even basic attacks pull you straight up

>KH1-2 are floaty
Niggas really be saying the wildest shit in these threads

>>725339070
>DMC
NTA but DMC is air-combo heavy more as an expression of player freedoms and jump cancels than because it's floaty. You fall down like a sack of bricks in every DMC game without spamming ways to air stall. Same with Bayo, same with NG for the most part. You fall down fast mid air combo as well in 2, and you pretty much snap towards the ground. I don't know why 3 does it but I feel like you have a small hover period where you're at the ground but aren't grounded and when you jump up gravity refuses to do anything for a little bit

>>725337494
This is a big part of why KH1 is better. You can just take the game at face value and it all makes sense. It’s got a lot of Disney magic to its plot that the other games try to explain like a science textbook. You don’t need to know exactly what the keyblade, the power of darkness, or Kingdom Hearts are. They’re just magic. It’s all thematic stuff that you don’t have to question too deeply.

>>725339549
yeah. It only began being floaty in KH2.
KH1 was the perfect blend of air and ground combat.

>>725339675
Even when air combat got buffed in KH2 you couldn't neglect the ground that much

KH3 now THAT was an air combat game. You look up anyone skilled playing KH3 and almost 100 percent of the it's basically the floor is lava

>>725339798
*time

>>725339798
>almost 100 percent of the it's basically the floor is lava
That's KH2.
I never played KH3 so I can only imagine, but KH2 was almost 100% air combat.

Played both for the first time this year and am currently playing through 358/2 neon mix.
Personally, I think 2 is better. After Twilight town the story does meander for a bit, but everything after returning to Hollow Bastion is awesome. By that point h the combat is getting really good, and the story really picks up. There was no moment for me in KH1 like the opening in Twilight Town or going into The World That Never Was for the first time and getting destroyed by Roxas. The boss fights in 2 that were tough at least felt fair. KH1 has fucking Ursula who is only difficult because the fight controls are so terrible.

They are both great games, but 2 is an improvement in almost every way (KH1 had better exploration) and a very satisfying closing to the arc of KH1, CoM, and KH2. Currently enjoying 358 but don’t plan to play any more games in the series after this - I hear it gets really lame.

>>725295119
not gonna samefag but FPBP
KH1 is miles better than 2 anyday

>>725339969
Days is as lame as it gets

>>725294971 (OP)
1 is a better RPG 2 is a better action game. I prefer the 1st one.

>>725339969
Days and DDD are the only two games I can think where the combat dips, the rest are mostly fine but the story does become a bit difficult to stomach, especially when you find out to get the full scope of the story, you have to watch summaries of Kingdom Hearts mobile games that aren't playable anymore. I don't blame you if you just want to stop at Days though, it has a decent story.

>>725340142
I’m enjoying the change of pace and the story. Also I like managing the panels. I think it’s just a nice break from Sora and the gang to hang out with these new characters.

>>725339969
The next one, Birth By Sleep, is incredibly stupid. It makes up a bunch of lore that damages the series beyond repair, and is the most guilty entry of creating the reputation for these games being convoluted. The spin-off material and KH3 are basically all dedicated to unraveling the clusterfuck created by this one game.

>>725339969
>currently playing through 358/2 neon mix.
You're so unsure of your own garbage that you're misnaming it kek

>>725339857
you have never played either game

>>725340493
It was a typo. Melon mix, faggot.

>>725340539
>typo
Nah, you're just a phonegoy.

>>725320706
Marvel vs Capcom

>>725340851
who

>>725336682
>>725336859
So is the secret to work with properties Disney won't invest in anymore?

>>725341006
cringe as fuck.
Did you zoomers seriously buy this slop?

>>725341006
>toy story
>property disney won't invest in anymore
anon we're getting a third fucking movie related to it since kh3 came out next year

>>725317476
>>725317913
>>725326557
>>725319745
I've heard rumors he's buying people who used to work on KH2 so they can come back to work with him as his successors. Kando left though, and so did Hiroki Chiba, the person who Nomura worked with on a gummi ship name. These two are very high profile since they both worked on FF7 (Chiba even made the story for Dirge).

Others have brought his name up before but some people to focus on are texture and menu/UI design director Takeshi Arakawa, battle design director Yuichi Kanemori, level modelling Masahide Tanaka, programming director Kentarow Yasui and level design director Takeshi Endo. All five of them were fired by Tabata at one point but none of them have had any real game credits since 2019 except for Takeshi Endo who worked on all things Visions of Mana. Current Square Tokyo members Harata, Takahashi and Abe are the same with no major console release credits since 2019 or 2020. Sato, Kujiraoka and Sase all worked on something so it's likely they're not on KH4 or another urban Square action rpg with command menus Nomura wants to make.

An outlier is Kyohei Suzuki who made the combat for coded and NEO TWEWY. He was also working on 7R1 before Nomura reassigned him. He and Abe briefly worked together on 3 but separated since.

I am still not entirely sure if you are supposed to play CoM before 2 or if the developers deliberately designed the opening of 2 knowing that you likely didn't play it. Looking back, 2's opening plays so brilliantly when you have zero idea what the fuck is going on. Your mindset aligns entirely with Roxas', and the player thinking "just let me play as sora" perfectly encapsulates Roxas's purpose as a character. I feel even the slightest explanations you get from CoM cheapen the overall experience of 2's opening (knowing about the organization, axel, etc).

>>725341207
>All five of them were fired by Tabata at one point
People don’t hate Tabata enough.

>>725341152
>Toy Story isn't over
Genuinely news to me, I never heard of this

>>725341413
There's still a gap there that's only fully explained by Days, but I think the full intent was to make you just as confused as Roxas. If you did play CoM, you're shocked to see Axel again and are confused as to why he's coming after you, and if not, he's still this interesting figure who you're unsure about. While you might have the idea that the group that's after you is the greater Organization, the nobodies and the lore being spaced throughout the game is still intriguing enough to keep you motivated to play.

Meanwhile, 3 fully expects you experience all the story before it, or you'll be confused in a way that's not intentional. It's why its plot had a much harder time with people who skipped from 2 to 3.

>>725341413
>I am still not entirely sure if you are supposed to play CoM before 2
Obviously you're fucking supposed to

>>725341625
The entirety of CoM's story can be summed up in a couple paragraphs. Not so for every single lore-dependant spinoff in fifteen years.

>>725306706
I think all of the disney worlds are actually kind of shit, especially in terms of level design
>Wonderland is an awful introduction, why you would make the first one so confusing and disorienting is beyond me, requires you to use items on flowers to progress which is never used before or after
>Olympus Colosseum is just fighting, doesn't even feel like an actual colosseum because the stands are completely empty
>Deep Jungle is too big and makes you run laps around it just to activate the next story beat
>Agrabah was fine but the shitty platforming drags it down
>Halloweentown is fine I guess but the fetchquest at the beginning was boring
>Monstro is literally just the same couple of rooms for most of it
>Atlantica, swimming controls and combat suck and is also too big and easy to get lost in because most of it is grey featureless sea floor
>Neverland isn't even Neverland it's just crawling around in a ship, the only interesting thing about it was the Sora Heartless
I'll take KH2 flat arenas over this cancer anyday of the week

>>725341693
>paragraphs
sentences*

>>725296923
>The story is simple and clean

I don't like a lot of the new scenes in 2's Final Mix. It feels like they might a lot of things like 'Ansem' being a good guy (and Riku) way more obvious and that scene where Xemnas walks down stairs for 2 minutes is ridiculously dull.

>>725306706
The Ultima Weapon grind has always been a pain in the ass (especially getting the Mystery Goo from those fucking mushroom Heartless). Final Mix's grind is even worse, and the first time I ever played FM, I looked everything up in a guide and went "Fuuuuuck that!".

>>725294971 (OP)
One has a better story with the story director, or person in charge of planning out the story beats, was the person behind the Cowboy Bebop story planning. It explains why KH2's story is just poorly laid out.

>>725341397
Crazy how the entire beginning area is just a giant invisible maze

>>725294971 (OP)
Why they got rid of dodge roll in 2?

>>725341906
What is poorly laid out about 2's story?

>>725341693
Just saying, both games had different philosophies. 2 was made knowing not everyone played CoM and they tried to actually make it work with or without playing it. 3 has too much stuff preceding it and they probably knew there would be not satisfying way to recapture the brilliance of 2's prologue, so they said fuck it and punish you for not knowing everything. Also doesn't help Dark Road was supposed to come out before 3 to explain Xehanort's goals and motivations.

>>725341636
Nope, Sora lost his memory after com therefore it would make no sense to play it since until AFTER kh2

>>725342016
the game came out a year before 2. were you supposed to buy it and not play it for over a year??

>>725342015
>so they said fuck it and punish you for not knowing everything
And now Square Enix is a shameful brand that no one respects.

>>725341413
Are you retarded? If you skip CoM, you’re going to be wondering what the fuck Sora is doing in an egg and why he’s older. And then it’s never going to be explained.

>>725342047
by the time I started playing KH1, 2 was just getting ready to come out and I didn't have a GBA

>>725342091
The best play order is KH1 -> KH2 Opening -> CoM -> KH2

>>725341413
>>725341636
It works both ways, dunno if that was intentional or not. I didn't play CoM so I was really on the same page as Sora and his "what the fuck is going on" questions all the time

>>725342080
It's actually a pretty good way to see their shift in philosophy and continuous shitty business practices after over a decade. The old Square Enix died quite some time ago.

>>725342091
thank namine?

>>725342175
Leave it to KH fans to play their games in an even more convulsed and autistic way. Or you could just play CoM and KH2. I really don’t understand how doing so would spoil the experience of KH2 at all?

>>725342193
>the old Square Enix
Nigger, Square died the second they partnered up. KH died with 2 by your logic.

>>725294971 (OP)
I never liked these games but the box art is fucking amazing

>>725306706
Anything about the Gummi Ship.
I wish the minigame could be toggled off entirely.

>>725342393
It’s better in 2, but I still wish it could be skipped. I never liked it.

>>725328782
DDD sora felt like he got Flanderized the hardest 3 at least seemed like there was some correction to that

Everything only got more retarded after 1.
After BBS and 2 I just could not give a shit anymore but kept playing them anyway.
They're competent games, even have some good things about them but every entry after the first has overall been decidedly mediocre for one reason or another. The few merits they have bogged down by utter tripe.

went from cool niggas with no hearts to now apparently being 1000+ years old and destroying worlds because??

>>725341207
>from KH2 to Pokemon gacha slop
eh?!
why fire the people that made the best game of all time?

>finish Hollow Knight
>thread is still going
baased

I know everything, ask me anything (about Kingdom Hearts).

>>725341978
Because it was replaced with Quick Run which is better designed than Dodge Roll. It still has i-frames but isn't as spammy as Dodge Roll and it has variable distance with tap or hold. They added it later for people who missed it not because it was needed. I don't even equip dodge roll despite maxing Limit Form.
+ it looks cooler aswell

>>725342319
Kingdom Hearts 1 box art is pure fucking soul, probably one of my favorites ever.

>>725343081
quick run is god awful
you don't need either because your healing always outpaces everything the enemies do and you have reflect spam for the secret bosses
dodge roll would be necessary otherwise

>>725294971 (OP)
anyone else think the covers are so kino?

>>725343293
>quick run is god awful
in what way? i use it for dodging on crit lvl 1 without issues
both for dodging out of the way aswell as dodging through attacks
dodge roll has more i-frames which is nice if you don't want to be as precise but quick run has enough to be lenient aswell

>>725342258
I just think this order works better with KH2's opening, especially Roxas not knowing what is going on. That coupled with Sora awakening and seeing the journal only has "Thank Namine" written in it. Not 'remembering' what happened in CoM feels almost intentional especially given that game is entirely about memory loss (and the game itself is even often forgot about).

they just made the game that way because they knew people would skip com, not that it was the intended way or anything god you faggots are insufferable

namine's character works better in reverse order anyway

>>725343579
You don't know what you're talking about you absolute buffoon.

>>725343579
Probably, but it's still interesting imo how well the themes of memory loss play into not playing the game about memory loss

>just learned about damage ceilings yesterday
all that power grinding... worthless

skipping CoM doesn't make the story harder to understand, you're just missing out on Larxene kino

>>725343798
doesn't re:com make her more sassy?

>>725343783
it's good writing. something that stopped after Days

>>725343696
Days giving Roxas a female friend in Xion is so awkward come 3 when Namine starts going on about how no one cares about her and it's absoliutely true. Roxas dropped her the second he remembered his real friends fast.

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1 is way more memorable. From the beach setting on the island, to the Alice in Wonderland puzzles, to the Coliseum of Hercules, the waterfall of Tarzan, Kurt Zisa in Aladdin, the soundtrack on Hollow Bastion and then the end game boss.

It was a game that if it were made today would piss and shit over all others. I don't think it had any noteworthy downsides. Everything was just a tight experience.

KH2 I don't remember fondly and I think because it leaned on action while the story was just becoming too complex than it needed to be. Soundtrack varied from good to tolerable.

regardless they're both better than 3

>>725341715
The level design I think is actually good in Wonderland, you never NEED high jump or feel like you're cucked by the abilities. Deep Jungle though, yeah. A lot of the stuff there feels like you're punished for not having everything already

>>725343887
KH2's story really isn't that complex. None of KH's story is if you play all the games really, most people just don't.

>>725341715
Good lord, you sound like a faggot.

>>725343875
Roxas's only interaction with her was the opening of kh2 where she says cryptic bullshit and tells him he was basically never meant to exist
i dont think she was ever really his friend in the first place kek

>>725343875
Xion is a blight on Roxas' character and days.
Xemnas and Saix was right.
She truly was a mistake

>>725343959
>None of KH's story is if you play all the games really
i played them all and stopped understanding wtf is going on in the mobile games

>>725344083
>Roxas's only interaction with her was the opening of kh2
https://youtu.be/8ZyaHpwDOFM?t=76178

>>725344083
isnt there an interaction near the end of 2 where they both step out of eachother's somebody and talk or something?

>>725341983
The overall feel of the game feels too light hearted, as KH1 felt like a more grounded in terms of character, story setup and setting.

>>725343959
>if you play all the games really
That's part of the problem. I only played the main line games and didn't know about the other offshoots until 5 years after 2's release (life was difficult). Then when I did hear about them I looked into what they were about, got confused and just left it alone.

The way everyone talks about the timeline though is as if you have to become a grand wizard or something

sora abandons his mom forever to go chase some mickey mouse bullshit because of a "storm" on an "island"

>>725344150
>>725344164
oh right i forgot about the only other interaction where they say some nomura poetry bullshit.
i forgot the friendship was implied to have somehow developed between the beginning of the game where Namine talks to Roxas one last time before he dies and then the end of the game
god this writing

>>725344393
he goes home after 2 for a bit though

>>725344408
I don't it's strange that 2 people with similar circumstances who can understand each other would feel amicable

>>725343798
>I'm the bad guy so you have to have sex with me
How'd they get away with it?

>>725344415
oh I only played 1 so I just assumed she's crying wondering where he went forever

if KH3 had sovl, it would've let you clip through Kairi's character model with the camera and find out that she's wearing different panties

I want KH1 gameplay minus all disney bullshit with a modern story

>>725344560
SOULLESS

>>725344481
Similar circumstances sure but I'm saying they have 0 time to develop that friendship so it makes no sense is what im saying

>>725343959
This. One of the worst things about story discussion is people talking about the plot who haven't played the games. If you play the games, most of the plot is simple to understand. 1, CoM, and 2 are simple enough that a kid can follow. If you read a Wikipedia article, it's going to be more confusing. The only legitimate complaints of story is mobileshit being important but there being no good way to get the plot elements without watching YouTube videos or reading plot summaries.

>>725344560
there's an uncensor mod for 2 but it doesn't list the panties on it so idk if it does or not
checking her out on PS2 enhanced my experience
modern devs aren't shit

>>725318413
>kairis cunny is better in first game

What the fuck did he mean by this?

I just don't get why in KH2 they thought to lock the movement tech behind grinding the drive forms. Did they make the levels first and just dumped the movement options as a reward for drives or did they originally plan to continue on 1's level design and exploration but someone on the team wanted to lock it behind the drives which meant they couldn't really design levels with them in mind?

>>725347729
The level design has nothing to do with the movement progression. KH1 had verticality way before you unlocked High Jump.
I like that they locked movement behind Drive Forms but i enjoy leveling them up anyway. I can see why others wouldn't like it.

>>725294971 (OP)
not enough good KH1 Kairi porn

>>725348231
My second issue with it is how they have some odd arbitrary leveling up conditions for each one. Why not just get xp from enemies killed while using it? Rather than encourage to use it regularly it instead encourages you to use specific ones at specific times. And those specific times you'll have to look up online since I don't think the game specifies the exact conditions, although I could be wrong on this one.

>>725348772
the game explains each one in the experience section of the form
and the requirements aren't that counter intuitive. kill heartless, kill nobodies, collect drive orbs, use limits, do attacks. it's all stuff you would do anyway.
leveling them is pretty fast when you know where and how. and if you don't know, then it's still not anything too complicated or outrageously long.
many people on their first run only level a few though and therefore miss out on how good endgame Sora is supposed to feel, so i can see that as a negative for first runs.

>>725349124
>the game explains each one in the experience section of the form
My mistake then.
>it's all stuff you would do anyway.
Yeah but they're things you could be doing in other drive forms rather than the specific one that levels up with heartless or one for physical attacks or whatnot.
>leveling them is pretty fast when you know where and how
That's how I did it. I wanted to do the Cave of Remembrance so I just looked up online ways to do it fast and had to grind for them. I was at the end game and still hadn't leveled up any of them despite using them regularly exactly because I wasn't using the "right" one when called upon. That's just annoying, specially since the combat really does get a lot better with them. So the choice to lock that behind grinding just baffles me.

>>725349493
ideally you level them bit by bit throughout the run. the game even puts caps on the level so it's actively preventing you from leveling them. meaning if you do the "wrong" thing on a form, it's fine because you're gonna keep hitting the cap anyway so you're not even wasting exp or anything.
again it's more of a first run issue if you have them all at lvl 1 by the end of the game and then grind them all in a row, that's tedious yeah.

>>725349857
I just find it idiotic. I really can't think of a good reason they'd make that choice. I'd be like not being able to run in Doom until you kill 200 imps with the pistol.

>>725350031
the same reason you don't start with your full kit, it's power progression in an RPG

>>725294971 (OP)
kingdom hearts was the death of squaresoft along with ffx2

>>725294971 (OP)
The first three hours of KH2 > KH2 Data Battles > The entirety of KH1 > everything else in KH2

>>725350301
Sure but it's power progression behind a rather arbitrary system. Why not "kill enemy while in drive form, get xp, level up". Is there even some lore reason to at least pretend like it's not just the devs picking a restriction at random
>Drive form only levels up while killing a specific enemy on a Tuesday

>>725306706
half the treasure chests in the game containing useless gummi shit

>>725343887
>Soundtrack varied from good to tolerable.
Didnt realize there were people that had problems with KH2 soundtrack. DESU i listened to the soundtracks before actually playing the games (Technically I played the tutorial the 1st game when really really young, and I figure thats part of why I have such an attachment to the soundtrack, but that doesnt really count) So to me they all blend together and dont sound too much like they belong to one game or another, except for some KH3 tracks. But yeah I always thought people considered the 3rd game tracks the best.
My problem with the KH3 tracks is that they can feel a bit repetitive sometimes, and like they just exist to set a tone, which sounds stupid because thats basically all videogame soundtracks and my favourite KH1 soundtrack can probably be described that way

>>725294971 (OP)
I really liked 1 more than 2. The tech hit combat system was really cool and better than parry slop I wish more games brought stuff like that back

>>725350456
it incentivizes the player to either use the form to its strengths or pay more attention to other parts of the game
>Valor: As many attacks as possible.
play aggressively. Fitting its design of being a hyper offensive form that sacrifices utility and defense as a trade off.
>Wisdom: Kill Heartless.
the biggest crowds of enemies in the game are heartless fights and Wisdom accells at both AoE damage and crowd control
>Master: Collect Drive Orbs
this one doesn't play into the strength of the form itself, but it makes you pay more attention to, where do i get orbs from, how do i get more? for example Draw Rings, Draw on Keyblade and more Orb drops on Keyblade. Then also Convert Munny into Orbs.
>Limit Form: Use Limits
simply just encourages you to use the form as intended but also makes you quickly realize which Limits use up more MP than others
>Final Form: kill Nobodies
you get it in the Nobody world so this also just plays out naturally. plus you will farm the same nobodies for synth at around the same point anyway.

these are just a few examples that come to my mind where the experience requirements nudge you into the right direction

>>725306706
>Vanilla-only
Gameplay was fucking unbalanced and Rod skill tree just had EVERYTHING by Level 54 or something. Meanwhile Sword skill tree was utter garbage and had nothing outside of Combo Pluses (that did jack shit) and trash like Vortex. Thank fuck FM nerfed MP Rage and MP Gift while adding a shitton of new physical abilities (so all three skill trees are now viable).
Not being able to skip cutscenes was AWFUL - I've memorized Riku-Ansem's cutscene word by word as a kid.
Too many chests had Gummi blocks in them.
Missable Red Trinity in Halloween Town was bullshit.
>FM-only
New color palettes suck ass, thank fuck you can swap them for vanilla ones in PC version.
Some weapons did not deserve the nerfs they got (Oblivion, Dream Rod).
>all versions
Gummi Ships sections aren't that great (it kinda applies to entire series, though)
A lot of Keyblade info is hidden from player (Crit Rate, Crit Power, Length) and you will never figure it out unless you have Ultimania
Deep Jungle's progression wasn't that good - I know Jane gives you many tips on where to go if you're stuck, but devs should've forced her on player more in order to avoid aimless wandering for hours
People rightfully point out shitty writing and plotholes in later KH games but KH1 is not an exception to this - stuff like "beat Ansem to restore all worlds" comes from nowhere (Leon never explains how this works, he just blurts it out after Behemoth fight) and letter from King in post-credits scene is never shown ever again (even though the letter in KH2 ending had to be explained through Coded)

>>725306706
garbage level design
even worse platforming
shitty combat system
terrible gummy ship
atrocious character designs

>>725352362
>People rightfully point out shitty writing and plotholes in later KH games but KH1 is not an exception to this - stuff like "beat Ansem to restore all worlds" comes from nowhere (Leon never explains how this works, he just blurts it out after Behemoth fight) and letter from King in post-credits scene is never shown ever again
I agree that people have this weird obsession with pretending that KH1 is the clean, un"complicated" actually good story because its simple and has a le heckin down to earth message! But no its just as retarded and unexplained and mystery box as the other games, it just didnt explain much until the very end, and even then still leaves stuff up in the air. So there's a lot less raw writing whatsoever to be critical of. Its not because its not poor, its because its very sparse relative to its sequels

>>725343036
who was the girl in Radiant Garden that Lea and Isa snuck in to visit

>>725353357
>atrocious character designs
what did he mean by this

>>725294971 (OP)

what debate? KH2 fucking clears

>>725353519
built for pantsing

>>725353547
>KH1
1 keyblade
>KH2
3 keyblades
>KH3
2 keyblades
mogged

>>725294971 (OP)
Neither.

>>725353398
I disagree. It leaves some things open but it introduces new concepts in a way that makes sense, doesn't really break those established rules and everything fits well. The sequels are the ones that become obsessed with recontextualizing things that had already been explained before which is what makes this series come across as convoluted.

>>725355516
>obsessed with recontextualizing things that had already been explained
Like what?

>>725355657
>Remember the big bad guy in the first game? He was just this other guy's heartless.
>Remember how the Keyblade was a big deal? Nah, everyone gets one. I'm sure even Pluto has his own.
The games don't add new elements as much as they look back and say "that was actually a different thing"

Man i can't wait for KH 4 and the spinff game they announced

>>725356553
missing link was cancelled

>>725356795
Damn i was hoping the name implied some kind of recoded sequel since it was the only good command wheel spinoff

>>725353519
It means he's gay.

>>725342873
They were making systems you had to interact with and think about, unlike the hold O to win battle system that was praised by fans of Uncharted, Assassin's Creed and Skyrim for being made simpler. The same goes for the story too, and when Nomura learned that XV was loved because everything he wanted in it was gone, he went insane and made SoP.

>>725358880
>Nomura learned that XV was loved because everything he wanted in it was gone, he went insane and made SoP.
Why does this make so much sense?

>>725320927
If you have PS5, there's an all-in-one collection. If on PC, Steam has the whole series split across 3 games (only missing Melody of Memory, which is in EGS hell but you can pirate that shit).

Also 2 of the games (Days and Coded) are only present as movies, so if you feel like actually playing them you gotta DS emulate them. I'd recommend at least experiencing Days this way, if you look up Kingdom Hearts Melon Mix you'll find a sort of modded emulator to make it feel like a PC port.

As for play order, ignore the order within the collection, and do: KH1 - Chain of Memories - KH2 - Days (Melon Mix) - Birth By Sleep (characters in order top to bottom recommended) - Coded (movie in the collection is fine) - Dream Drop Distance - * - 0.2 - KH3 and its DLC - Melody of Memory.

For the *, it's optional but if you are autistic enough it's worth it. Basically, they released a bunch of games (KHX, KH Union Cross, KH Dark Road) as now dead phone games. YT has all the cutscenes dubbed for them. They are mostly for backstory + a couple callbacks in KH3. Dark Road can be skipped until all the games are done since it's irrelevant to the story so far.

>>725359941
re:coded shouldn't be skipped because the gameplay is actually fun while the story is mostly pointless

>>725360078
I'm assuming what anon said in >>725341207 is very closely related to that. I imagine he's also working on 4 after Nomura lost Kando who worked on NEO TWEWY when he wasn't supervising the Osaka games and also reeling from Versus getting cancelled.

>>725358880
>Nomura lucked out massively since his shit game was so bad it wrapped around to being funny and beloved
he should have lost his job

KH1 is better
Much better story, its the only good story in all of KH, the only one with good character writing before it got mega autistic, and has the least confusing plot

It also have the best level design

I guess downside is combat is not as good as KH2, but it is still good

>>725359515
Nta but it's widely accepted that Nomura made Stranger of Paradise in light of what was happening to him at Square Enix. Anime games were being stigmatized left and right, Days was ripped apart for the ice cream scene and FF13 put a nail in the coffin of emotionally intense games with things to say that weren't just handholding tutorials or Whedon quips that didn't take away from a player's amusement. This was around 2012 when almost everyone got off on MCU slop and its similar takeover in Western video games, so anything that was serious or moody was derided and worse (Reddit became popular this time), called cringe.

Tabata began to take power away from Nomura even as he brought in the other members of the Type-0 team earlier in 2011 which was finalized in 2012 when Kanemori, Harata, Tanaka, Yasui, Endo and Arakawa were removed based on what >>725341207 said because they were all about systems design (and if you include FF12's Jun Akiyama who worked on Versus, serious and moody stories). Nomura came up with the concept of a Final Fantasy game with the story of an angry man not long after. Even the lines in the 15 themed level allude to his situation. One anon even found out that the director of SoP was himself a Versus 13 dev.

>>725306706
I think personally it's the camera and platforming. Every time I go back to it I find myself fighting with the camera and lock on more than anything else.
Not quite as bad, but magic is a bit overly strong. Rod start and going to Olympus Coliseum as early as possible to get Thunder fast trivializes a large chunk of the game.

>>725360231
>>Nomura lucked out massively since his shit game was so bad it wrapped around to being funny and beloved
...The 3rd Birthday?

I hope Verum Rex is as good as KH1 and dont have to much KH baggage weighing it down

>>725360552
It's even weirder when you hear Verum Rex and Versus 13 are somehow separate projects. Nomura said that and all speculation has rested on how Verum Rex is about Versus 13 even more than SoP was.

>>725345413
Based.
I bet you noticed Sora's bulge in the KH1 box art?

>>725358880
>unlike the hold O to win battle system that was praised by fans of Uncharted, Assassin's Creed and Skyrim for being made simpler.
...this isn't true, is it?

>>725360583
Got a link?

>>725360684
>—The scenery of the world Riku is in is also very exciting. It feels like it's trying to summon past memories. The man looking down from the roof of the building looks a lot like Yozora from VERUM REX, the game that was popular in the Toy Box world...
>Nomura: Yeah, he's Yozora.
>—So that means that's the world of VERUM REX?
>Nomura: Yes, that's right. I know the visuals have some people thinking it's the same as a title I had been working on in the past, but it isn't. There are parts of the unreleased project that have been cooking along inside me, so there's a chance that I may have some overlap of ideas, but VERUM REX is a completely different thing. Nobody knows what was in the project that wasn't released, and VERUM REX doesn't even exist yet, so perhaps it's difficult to understand right now, but I will just say that they are different things and leave it at that.
>VERUM REX doesn't even exist yet
>cooking along inside me
https://www.khinsider.com/news/Kingdom-Hearts-3-Ultimania-Main-Nomura-Interview-Translated-14763
I forgot about the cooking part. Has he been using the 7 Remake trilogy to telegraph gameplay concepts for Versus this whole time?

>>725294971 (OP)
KH1 is better as a complete package.

2 has more polished combat mechanics and gummi ship sections, but it’s worse in every other way.

>>725360768
>VERUM REX is a completely different thing
what the hell this boy doin

>>725358880
>XV
>loved

>>725360923
Using KH to violate his Versus NDA without violating it like he did with SoP. In fact I think even non-Nomura devs did the same thing in XVI and that game is teeming with Versus devs too

>>725360970
Normies did until Episode Gladio so they threw it away like all the others kek

>>725341207
>I've heard rumors
From where?

>>725361258
I'm assuming he's been following the information dug up by Tokyo Team anon, which consists of LinkedIn work experience posts, testimonies from Versus devs on Twitter, and of course speculation from here. Kando and Chiba leaving were public statements, though.

What's clear though is that there were two people who were rehired by Nomura to work on his games again. Anon brought up Sase who left Square (don't know why) to go to Konami only to be brought back on 7R and another who left for Platinum Games when Tabata was directing 15 only to return to KH3 and 7R. Barry talked about the second one a lot in the days of Stellafag. Can't remember his name though

>>725295227
No one play the Kingdom hearts games for the story they play it for the combat.

>>725361482
>Sase who left Square (don't know why) to go to Konami only to be brought back on 7R and another who left for Platinum Games when Tabata was directing 15 only to return to KH3 and 7R
>rehired by Nomura to work on his game again
What the fuck was Tabata thinking

>>725360583
Hopefully Verum Rex will come out eventually so people will stop samefagging about it in KH threads

>>725361482
>testimonies from Versus devs on Twitter
I know this is true because people kept reposting this exact testimony, which is also how I learned that devs from the Matsuno/SaGa games worked on Versus and Nomura picked them because he never worked with them before and they never shut up about it.

>>725361630

>>725361630
>LinkedIn work experience posts
>>725361482
>this exact testimony
assuming we're talking about the same guy he's directing DQ7R btw

>>725361518
People in this thread take the story really seriously. The story is only to move the game along to the next world.

>>725361630
>I learned that devs from the Matsuno/SaGa games worked on Versus and Nomura picked them because he never worked with them before and they never shut up about it.
Thanks to you I just did too
Holy shit were we robbed

>>725361482
>Stellafag
Who?

>>725361518
You know that isn't true.

this enitre thread feels like one KH1 autist samefaging like crazy

>>725294971 (OP)

KH1 is a little tiny bit better if you are a child or a fat, smelly, neckbearded manchild with a tight Disney t-shirt who played it as a child
KH2 is (WAY) better if you are a normal adult who simply likes amazing video games. Especially the ones who are pure lighting in a bottle

>>725362164
sex

>>725326192
it's actually so fucking kino, considering that Sora "forgets" COM anyway - you all see what I mean right? Nomura factored in the fact that the middle story wasnt played by most, and then incorporated that in the story narrative (intentional or not)

>>725340418
wonderful comment, much of KH3's "issues" were attempting to answer some 20 plotlines that opened AFTER KH2 (which for the most part was a closed loop)
KH1 ends with Kairi and Riku still lost, KH2 necessitates itself.
KH3 is 15 different things, and then 5 more unrelated things, with characters that most players didnt meet or only YT cutscened, or characters that nevver directly met Sora either and when they all do meet its glossed over
THAT'S the oddest thing, ALL of the Kingdom Hearts OC's finally meet and there is so so little dialouge and syngery between them. For a crossover series, each "faction" really just sticks to itself. The ending battle was cool but should have has more interactions, khfandom in 2007 wrote better than what we got

>>725362387
She looks familiar

>>725362652
Forgot pic