Maelledition.

A general for the discussion of Clair Obscur: Expedition 33. Be nice and use spoiler tags.

>Store Links
https://www.expedition33.com/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1903340/Clair_Obscur_Expedition_33/
https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/p/expedition-33-b3240d

>Latest patch
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1903340/view/499446847117461384?l=english

>An ASI plugin for Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 that removes the 30fps cap in cutscenes, fixes ultrawide issues and more.
https://www.nexusmods.com/clairobscurexpedition33/mods/24

>Mod for min-maxxing (no more low/medium/whatever/extreme damage)
https://www.nexusmods.com/clairobscurexpedition33/mods/134

>Mod removing the constant blood and shit on the expedition
https://www.nexusmods.com/clairobscurexpedition33/mods/143

>Pictos Tracker
https://e33.hultz.dev/pictos

Concept arts, models and other cool shit:
https://www.artstation.com/channels/TheArtofExpedition33
https://www.artstation.com/nicholas-maxson-francombe
https://www.artstation.com/reynaudalan

Old Chroma: >>526049413

We Lost.
Also, I need to get back to E33. I still have post-game content to do.

Cute and perfect.
Also, favourite OST track? Mine would probably be the title track I’m a basic bitch.

I can't believe we were gommaged...

>>526752525
>favourite OST track?
Probably Alicia, due to how cleverly it is used throughout the game. It signals that this "Alicia" character is going to be very important because you keep hearing her theme all over the place, but throughtout majority of the game you don't know how.
As for the sheer bop - Megabot 33.

>>526752525
Very hard to choose a favorite, maybe this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anD2aeIrMOs
I like 00:33, the heavy piano that starts at 1:25, and when the music combines all the layers at the end.

>>526753131
I thought someone would bake a new one, so I went to sleep.

I guess I am a slowpoke, but I only now realized that Alicia's scars look as if a book blew up in her face.
I suspect the devs might have more planned out than I give them credit for.

>>526752525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qe0XzhJix8

Something I noticed is that the canvas PAlicia was painting didn’t look very good or detailed because Aline painted her as someone who doesn’t know how to paint.

>>526755150
>today i will paint... the vagina looking monster that my father made to represent me
hmm

>>526759450
>see, pa-puh, I don't want to go back home for a REASON. you people are weird.

I had a dream, where I saw Verso and the '33' and I realised I was in a dream.

So I resurrected Gustave and Gustave told me that I didn't need to worry about him and that he was perfectly okay and showed me his arm that I had resurrected him with. Then we sat down and he made food for us. And I woke up just as I was about to eat it...

>>526752525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VbLG22k3U8&ab_channel=SandfallInteractive

>>526751517 (OP)
22+ years of playing games and this is the best I've ever played. It's not even a difficult decision for me to say it's the best.

>>526752525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTAlomrlDvo
i love this one

>>526764148
I envy you.
You can still dream.

>>526752525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1-DSn_6eRQ

im about to quit this garbage
i keep getting random bsod
but i will miss maelle's naked ass

>>526770178
Never saw anyone complain about BSOD on this game, AMD?
Try checking your drivers or something.

>>526752525
>listening to the soundtrack
>get to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMcGGiP9Xw0
>end up replaying it for hours
every time

>>526770178
It's because of the schizo new nvidia drivers that they didn't bother beta testing. Downgrade to a stable version and it won't happen anymore.

hehe

>>526770178
why does exposed shoulderblades and neck feel more lewd than ass?

>>526767247
Rip anon's hopes and dreams...

i read in the last thread that alicia has been in the canvas for 16 years? am i reading this correctly? but where do you get that? also is there a timeline of the events

Finally beat Simon.
I tried Maelle one shot build but I was lacking half the luminas and could only do 10M at most even with roulette so I said fuck it and tried it the normal non cheese way.
Anyway all I had to do with switch to dodge instead of parry, I have been parrying all game but I couldn't seem to do it for Simon.
Took me 18 mins and 320 dodges total. lol.

>>526785402
Maelle is 16 years old therefore alicia was 16 years in the canvas, also the game literally shows alicia being born in lumiere because of maman's chroma overtaking her body and overwriting her memories

>>526787994
We actually don't know if Alicia is 16 years old. It's assumed that way, because it makes sense, but some anons have a theory she's actually older.
I myself don't think so, if Sandfall wanted her to be older than Maelle, they would've make the game state that directly.

>>526787994
i know maelle is 16 but my question is more about how much time has passed on the real world, alicia enters the canvas at 16 years old but how old is she at the ending?

>>526788607
Probably still 16? We don't know the exact real world to canvas time ratio, but we can assume that it hasn't been longer than few weeks to a month after Verso's death and that's at least 67 years in a canvas.
So Alicia most likely has been in the canvas only for a few days tops.

>>526787994
The canvas shit is insane. If a painter was evil they could forcibly imprison people in the canvas and do whatever they liked to them.

>>526789163
I think only painters can enter the canvas

Kasoi dale uuu
Moi dane

>>526789163
the lore has insane potential, being vague about details and stuff is also a huge pro since you can play around it in the following games

>>526792703
the whole story behind this game is insane but for the music it was basically a once in a lifetime miracle combination

>>526764148
FUCK

>>526788463
>because it makes sense
It doesn't. It would be a bizzare coincident to time every event in the canvas so everything we do in the game happens exactly when Maelle is the same age as Alicia.
>if Sandfall wanted her to be older than Maelle, they would've make the game state that directly.
They didnt't state anywhere that she's 16.
In the one cutscene when Alicia and Maelle stand next to each other, Alicia is noticably taller and they have very similar heels. I wonder why would they do that...

I finally managed to beat Simon. What cool shit can I build with his weapon?

>>526752525
It's genuinely so difficult to choose a singular favorite with a soundtrack this varied and well crafted but honest it really does have to be
>Alicia
For me. It's the first track you hear and the one that has the most present leitmotif throughout the game. Aside from just being a beautiful piece it's a track you feel something different about with each bit of story you progress through. Even after the climactic bombast of Une vie a t'aimer, the fun-loving groove of Monoco and Megabot33, and the soothing ambience of Sirene's Robe de Jour, Alicia is still ALWAYS there in some shape or form.

I can tell if it feels right or wrong for a video game to criticize escapism

>>526804212
That's something I also love about Alicia, that everytime I booted up the game during my first playthrough I had a different context for it. It really was the perfect choice for the main menu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S62i9f6CSb8
GIVE ME THE ENTIRE BTS INSTEAD OF THIS TEASING BULLSHIT

>>526752525
simon phase 2

Going through NG+ has made truly realize how fucking bad I feel like painted Alicia. What a torturous existence.

>>526807998
feel for*, I meant
I am not a colorless burn victim

>>526807998
Yeah what Aline did with all of her fake family was a little fucked up but that was particularly fucked up

Where are people getting that Alicia is 16? I figure she's about that age but I think it's weird to assume she is exactly the same age as Maelle. I think both of the girls are old enough to be out of school. Clea seems older than she looks but Alicia could easily be college age.

>>526793526
>the lore has insane potential, being vague about details and stuff is also a huge pro since you can play around it in the following games
I'm not sure the sequel would be well received. The canvas will be destroyed in both endings after some time. I don't see Renoir letting the canvas remain after Maelle died inside in her ending.

So what would it be about? The writers and Clea? The real-life Simon?
What about the underlying theme too? Expedition 33 was about grief and moving on. I don't see a sequel having something as impactful..

>>526751517 (OP)
I love Lune! Both real and in-game!

>>526810158
>Expedition 33 was about grief and moving on. I don't see a sequel having something as impactful.

Few things will be as universal as grief but there's some themes that mentioned in Expedition 33 that are explored like the link between an artist and his creation or just mentioned like the relation between the painted people and the painters.

I believe the lore can hame some potential but it should move away from the Painters pov. Exploring the conflict from the Writers point of view can be good, while having some other themes.

>>526810158
There's no way a sequel is going to be about the characters or plot from the previous game. If it focuses on any of the previous characters it's going to be on someone like Clea or Aline.

>>526810158
>Expedition 33 was about grief and moving on. I don't see a sequel having something as impactful..
I mean, you can have a lot of similar themes in the sequel: love and venegance, depression, family. The most obvious theme for the sequel is going the TLOU 2 route and going with the cycle of vengeance thing, with Painters and Writers warring between each other and killing each other's family members until the protagonist decides this shit is stupid and leaves to become an astronaut or something.

>>526815203
I can absolutely see Alicia returning for the sequel as a supporting protagonist for the new PC. I guess there are plenty reasons for her to drop her stupid family and do her own thing.

>>526816307
>Implying they would give E33 a canon ending

this game feels like if a sequel were to be made, it wouldnt top the first game.

btw, chromatic glissando is an awful design

>>526825631
They'll pull an Invisible War and make both endings canon.

>>526751517 (OP)
Why can't she be real? WHY?!

>>526752525
Sirène - Robe de Jour. This whole area was pure magic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTAlomrlDvo&t=12

>>526829584
Go work as a high school teacher and unless you’re a total sperg you’ll have tons of Maelle’s wanting you to be their Gustave.

>>526825631
>>526827128
or mankind divided where they picked elements of all three endings from human revolution

>>526830195
>finding a total 10 out 10 16 year old french girl with a big ass and even cuter freckles
Come on anon even you don't believe that, unless you are willing to settle for less that is

>>526831293
I lucked out. When I told her I had to look for a higher paying job and leave the school at the end of the year she begged me to stay and keep teaching there (playing the piano). Life keeps forcing cruel choices.

The sequel will be a stealth prequel
>focus on a young writer
>tells the beginnings of the writer/painter feud
>his attempts to stop the feud amount to nothing as both writers and painters crash out harder.
>by the end he's exhausted
>sits down and begins to pen his draft
>Clair Obscur: Expedition 33

Kneel and worship.

>>526751517 (OP)
>Be nice and use spoiler tags.
Game has been out for a while now. This should be over, honestly.

>>526841587
Owowow

>>526804091
You have absolutely nothing to play Simoso again. You beat the game. Even the NG+ is trivial unless you purposefully gimp your stats with a Recoat and/or play lower leveled weapons and purposefully unequip any damaging pictos like Roulette or game-breaking pictos like Cheater. In truth you would need to start an entirely new run of the game if you wanted to re-experience it game. Even with NG+ the HP values weren't balanced enough. And this isn't a game with a variable QTE triming which would be the one thing that would really keep combat fresh and cause people to focus. If you weren't being fed the same pattern every time or if there were slight differences in the speed of some attacks then they could either make this game better...or mess it up entirely by making it too difficult. Either way you're crapping out damage and will likely one-turn the final boss either way.

I just hit act 3 and the meme builds I threw together fell off. I also don't have all the imba bullshit pictors/weapons maxroll says to use to do their meme insta oneshot 1 hp builds.

I just need something okay, any tips?

Dude... how in the absolute fuck do I beat this fucking freak?

His phase 1 is pretty manageable. Maybe a few tries to get the rhythm down. I actually got past it on my first try.

Phase 2 is fucking incredible. The phantom follow-ups can be learned & time, but if you miss one your rhythm is completely fucked. Plus he deletes anyone who dies. And that light speed attack is severe bullshit.

I only got him to about 60% in phase 2. I hear phase 3 is even worse...

The crazy thing is, he doesn't even actually feel unfair. He just feels like an all-time elite getgud challenge.

Holy fuck, man. I really want to beat him before returning to Lumiere to finish the story.

My party is around level 93 btw. Starters are Verso, Maelle, Sciel.

>>526752525
Changes week to week. Right now I'm on this shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U-5p-mgZ8I

>>526752525
Simon. I just got to him and it slaps so fucking hard.
Second favorite is probably Renoir 2.
This game has a legendary OST. Can't believe how crazy good this game is for a first effort by some Frogs.

>>526810609
Trve

Reminder if you used the Cheater pictos, you didnt beat the game. I would also go as far to say if you used Stendhal you didnt beat the game, but I did use it on Simon.

>>526855618
whoops forgot picrel, not that who I'm talking about is hard to guess for anyone who's gotten to him.

>>526855618
If you are letting people stay dead before his next turn comes around so he can banish them, your speed isn't high enough.

>>526858681
Gotcha, I'll work on my speed. Do you think it's better to go low HP builds and max damage/speed or go more tanky and run Cheater+Clea's Life so you can be max HP before every one of his turns?

Lune's Lunes

>>526859510
Check this out for a good idea of what are the bare essentials. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjH3eN2ATLE

The key is always being able to do good damage but it's not like it even has to be burst. A huge amount of damage this guy is doing is just through machine gun free aim spamming.

>>526865142
Thanks, anon. Will review.

>>526865816
Oh yeah on watching it again a big thing he's taking advantage of is revive paradox as well. If you ever have multiple people die you only need to revive one to guarantee the other isn't banished.

>>526751517 (OP)
Wouldn't it be funny if Lune entered the real world, but she was giant and stepped on everyone with her bare feet, hahaha...

The nuke one hit girl

>>526877957
ENTER

>>526864332
They're pretty big.

>>526808713
Gustave says Maelle shouldn't be on the Expedition because she still has 9 years until her Gommage
current gommage counter is 33, which in nine years will be 24
24-9 is 15, but there's wiggle room for whether she's actually 15 or 16 unless her birthday is literally on the day the monolith changes

>>526880994
i now realize i misread your post

What the fuck are the combat prompts misleading as fuck

>enemy does a fast attack
>takes 10 years winding up for a 1-2 hit

>>526825631
>Implying they would give E33 a canon ending
They could let it be vague and imply Renoir and Clea came back after Renoir was defeated in Maelle's ending. For Verso's we can keep it as it is.
There, boom, Maelle can come back in the sequel. The problem is I have no idea what the game will be about...

is there a new update?

>>526884581
No.

>>526884970
oh then wtf

if alicia is a painter, why the fuck doesnt she just paint herself a new world that she wants to live in? she has the power of essentially god, but the theme of GRIEF insists upon itself, and she cant let go.

>>526885785
it's explained she's too shit to do so
i swear you retards just watch youtubers

>>526886005
i may or may not have finished the final act(s) while sleep deprived at 3 AM
i take the L, and consider replaying the game again, mostly because after the paintress, it felt like the final stretch where i wanted shit to just be over with.

>>526884581
>>526884970
Yes
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1903340/view/499449376025873686

>Challenge Modifiers (Act III onward)
>At flag checkpoints, players can now:
>Limit max player damage to 99,999 or 999,999
>Multiply enemy HP by x2, x5, x10, x20, x50, or x100
Huh. I guess that's the smartest thing the devs did. Instead of trying to constantly balance the game, they just let the players do the honors. Want your game stupidly hard? Go for it.

>>526885785
What does it solve? She will still trap herself in a new canvas, while Renoir wants her to touch some grass.

>>526885785
Shrimply grab some of that sweet, sweet Verso chroma and repaint him in a new canvas.

>>526885785
she's not as good as her mom when it comes to painting her perfect fuckboi

>>526887993
Yeah sure I will, lemme just- oh...wait.

>>526888534
I don't think Verso would ever win naturally, especially if
>just use Stendahl

>>526887183
ugh i don't feel like updating my elamigos copy

>Simon Rematch
>Players can now rematch Simon after defeating him!
who cares just go to new game plus plus plus
>Story Mode Balancing
>Parry and dodge windows increased by 40%
>Incoming damage reduced by 10% to 50%
no one wants to humiliate themselves by playing story mode, they'll just mod in the parry mod
>Challenge Modifiers (Act III onward)
>At flag checkpoints, players can now:
>Limit max player damage to 99,999 or 999,999
>Multiply enemy HP by x2, x5, x10, x20, x50, or x100
damage limiters should have been implemented as 99999 for base game and 999999 for new game plus, where act 3 is just one shot sloppa

fucking reddit patch

also the gayest shit
>still no red real maelle hair

>Simon Rematch
>Players can now rematch Simon after defeating him!

>>526888776
Can I farm him for colour of lumina?

>>526887183
Fucking finally
Time for ng+ then

>>526788463
>I myself don't think so, if Sandfall wanted her to be older than Maelle, they would've make the game state that directly.
We actually have some info to estimate her age
Verso died at 26, two months before 27.
Alicia burn scars are healed in Monilith year 49, so at least a couple months after Verso death (which also seems to align with the estimate of the passage of time inside the canvas vs real world)
We see both Alicia and Verso as kids with their mothers teaching them how to paint. I'd say they have between 6 and 8 years age difference.

So 27 - (6 or 8) = Alicia is 21 or 19 at the minimum.
Align with Alicia and Maelle side by side profile where Alicia is taller than Maelle.
No way she's 16.
They look

>>526891087
So does this mean we can legally lewd Alicia now?

>Next Clair Obscur game is a space opera, but based off of futurist predictions of the likes of Jules Verne.
You think it'll sell?

>>526897525
The art direction could be really great.
The story ... it depends. I always hated Around the Moon from the author because it was like some kind of scientific journal, but having some characters and actual story could be good.

>>526829584
UUUOOOHHH SEXO!!

>>526752525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK5QXdkDw9c

>>526887183
>simon rematch
The game needs a fucking restart battle not just for one fight.

>>526904986
No wonders Simon fell for that beautiful woman.

Flying Manor is one of my favorite places. This OST with this scenario gives an inexplicably atmospheric feeling. I love it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnEnLVaOP7E

>>526887183
>Challenge Modifiers (Act III onward)
>At flag checkpoints, players can now:
>Limit max player damage to 99,999 or 999,999
>Multiply enemy HP by x2, x5, x10, x20, x50, or x100
so their balancing solution was adding mod functionalities into the vanilla game. instead of actually thinking how to properly balance act 3, they just outsource the balancing to the player. what a disappointment

>>526909847
I mean, it makes sense. You want your game to be stupidly easy, it's your call.

>>526909847
You're retarded. Balancing Act 3 is literally impossible if they want to keep the "become absurdly strong if you want to" selling point.
Giving us the tools to limit damage and multiply hp is perfect, it's the only way shitters won't come whining because we nerfed their favorite toys.

>>526911617
>it's the only way shitters won't come whining because we nerfed their favorite toys.
but what if that's what i want?

I think balancing this game is an impossible task. There are way to many variables, build creation is massive.

I've seen streamers struggling to kill the final boss, I've seen others steamroll it without needing to do A3 content.

>>526911307
>>526911617
but why do they make the player balance his experience if he wants a harder difficulty? they should just make a Very Hard difficulty to select that has some actual balancing and playtesting by the devs behind it.
BG3 got an honour mode too. just give us harder difficulties instead of these bs difficulty sliders.

>>526911934
>I've seen streamers struggling to kill the final boss
let's be honest with ourselves here:
if you have a functioning brain and higher than lukewarm temperature IQ, you can easily oneshot the final boss.
all it takes is just putting all your damage buffing Pictos on one character and pressing the character's biggest attack button.
if you cannot achieve that by yourself, you should be playing on story difficulty anyway, because you are too stupid to play an RPG

>>526911948
>they should just make a Very Hard difficulty to select that has some actual balancing and playtesting by the devs behind it.
As >>526911934 said, you have WAY too many tools to break the game to be able to tailor a perfect "very hard" experience.

>>526911948
Ah yes, BG3, the perfect example to talk about balancing right.

>>526912324
they put more effort into it than just adding 2 difficulty sliders and telling players "just do the balancing yourself"

>>526912189
You underestimate people's aversion towards glass cannons in videogames.
Also, without testing or mods, it's hard to tell what abilities will do the most damage.

>>526912431
Larian games, including BG3 are nothing but a shitfest of "fun" mechanics that 90% of players will use to cheese the game.
Same level of "we want our player to be able to break the game if they want to" and then adding sliders because players are surprised they can break the game tbdesu.

IIII
SEEEE
YOOOOUUUUU

>At flag checkpoints, players can now:
>Limit max player damage to 99,999 or 999,999
>Multiply enemy HP by x2, x5, x10, x20, x50, or x100
Neat, now I can actually experience the final Renoir fight. Even with Painted Power off he folds too fast, idk wtf they were thinking giving him only 850k HP.
Even if you go straight there from Act 2 that's nothing.

>>526911934
I agree, at least if want to keep Pictos/Lumina as varied and comboable as they are. Kinda like FF7's materia half the reason this system works is because they didn't care very strongly about balance.

Anyone got the image of Lune in the Verso ending wearing the fell for it again medal?

>>526924849

There's lots of end-game post-game stuff to do in this game, I like it!
I almost did the Flying Manor, but Clea is stopping me hard there so I left and tried Renoire's Drafts even though it said dangerous. I got a bit into it but the Creation fights are stopping me in my tracks there.
What's a good place to grind up my levels? Just endless tower? I think I have done most of the other stuff on the map, except for Sunless Cliffs I think it's called which also says dangerous. And I haven't done that Painting Workshop boss either.

>>526752525
>Also, favourite OST track?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH14bNRLWj8
mfw this came on for the first time

Got like 520 luminas stocked up and I'm scared to use them lol

>>526931970
Dark Shores is a good place until you can farm Renoir's Drafts
>>526932329
you can literally farm them, why are you hoarding

>>526833485
I think it should be some Xenoblade 2 tier stuff that seems completely unconnected to the original at first only to have an absolutely insane crazy level top kino twist. That's the only way to be equal or top this one.

Where can I find Simon? Is he down in the Drafts?

>>526932958
yeah, he is at the end of it

>>526932706
Where can I farm them?

>>526933215
Renoir's Drafts, all mobs there drop it, even the merchant

>>526933215
Every encounter in Drafts gives like 5 IIRC, and yes that includes the field mobs that respawn.

>>526933718
>>526933849
Thanks brochachos

I got a 100% recently and I've been considering doing NG+ but I want to make sure I did all the side content before I do so.
If you 100% the game, can you be relatively sure you did everything there is to the game?
What side content shouldn't I miss?

>>526934231
Just check here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-d2ybbBy94JiVF6Mo_0-jmICTueH4oyN2q9_Va2gXbw/edit?pli=1&gid=158968432#gid=158968432
I thought I had done everything possible in the game, but I was missing one weapon for Monoco that drops from a chromatic boss I missed, one picto hidden in the overworld, and some energy shards.

What do you think are some must have pictos on your characters that you have on all the time on everyone?

>>526938430
Second Chance
Cheater
Energy Master
Energising Turn
Beneficial Contamination (cause bugged and give everyone +2 AP at the start of the battle, ie it's easier to reach a 9 AP start with this alone and Energy Master)
Painted Power
First Strike (bugged too if you let the ennemies attack you first, they'll get a turn maybe in one hour or two)

and for characters using physical damage:
Painter

>committing genocide of an entire world of sapient beings is okay if it's to force your family to move on from a single death!
I'm not really feeling this message.

>>526947704
It's a trolley problem because in order to keep that world alive you also have to forcibly keep a dead man in a life he detests and let another member of said family kill herself (when the reason said dead man died in the first place was to save the family member in question) while she stays addicted to playing god in a facsimile of reality.
There's no truly happy endings here, it's a shitty situation in some way either way. Possible compromises existed but the parties involved are too stubborn and often hypocritical to meet each other halfway enough to achieve them.

>>526947704
Yeah the problem with the ending is that the devs are trying to have their cake and eat it too, "moving on from grief" usually doesn't include sacrificing an entire society of thinking beings, your friends and community you literally lived among for 16 years, the game really stretches the message it tries to say here, and I still think Maelle should be the only ending (it's just better and more messed up in all the good ways) but hey we wouldn't have the debates over who is right otherwise, so it was a smart move

>>526947704
Don't worry, me neither. I can write entire essay about how Verso is an idiot and his ending doesn't work, but I can't be bothered at this point.

>>526947704
>is okay
It never says that it is 'okay'. Neither ending is morally purely good. The game isn't telling you that it is morally okay that Verso manages to erase the painting for the sake of Alicia/Maelle

>>526947704
I don't know how you got the sense that it's okay, both endings are intentionally pretty fucking grim in their own ways because the Dessendres are bullheaded, selfish fucks.

>>526949136
Also, my issue with Verso's ending is that it proposes a "one key fits all" solution to a very complex problem. Alicia has other problems that she wants to escape from that moving on from grief won't really solve and the game kinda doesn't want to address that, because that would break the message they are trying to push in half.

>>526949481
>because the Dessendres are bullheaded, selfish fucks
Except real Verso, all indicators we see point to him probably being a cool dude.

>>526949710
I have a feeling Alicia also used to be a sweet girl before the whole universe decided to shit on her.

It's the complete failure of their parents really. Renoir and Aline utterly failed as parents following the fire, and they were probably aloof arrogant pricks before as well considering the sheer magnitude of their failure as parental figures.

>>526947704
Renoir was right.
Don't care.
If the family dies (which is happening in Maelle ending) the painting gets destroyed by the writers anyway.
Aline is to blame, don't hate Verso or Renoir. Hate the bitch that doomed the entire painting.

>>526949931
Yeah probably, maybe she was as sassy and fun-loving as Maelle pre-Act 3 (and especially pre-Act 2) before the fire. Maelle lost a lot of her attitude when she remembered herself as Alicia.

Do you guys actually want a 'golden path' ending? I feel like it would cheapen the two ending we have for the sake of happily ever after wish fulfilment.

>>526950341
Absolutely not, a perfectly bowtied ending doesn't fit the characters of this story.

>>526950213
It's implied she actually wasn't. She was most likely very quiet and bookish, literally the opposite of Maelle.
It's actually implied that Maelle is a person Alicia wants to be and she subconsciously created that persona for herself in the canvas.

Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 (2025)

>>526949315
>>526949481
>verso's ending
>sunny funeral
>family together, clearly healing
>the entire party waves goodbye
>meanwhile Maelle's ending
>sudden turn to monochrome
>close up to Verso crying
>sudden piano drop to shaken the player up, close up to Maelle's face being twisted
Maelle's ending is kino but it's pretty obvious which ending the devs meant for the player to pick, and it was not that one.

>>526950479
Hmm, suppose that makes sense. Especially with how much more reserved Alicaelle is, even if Maelle is more who she wants to be she can't quite put on that persona the same way with her previous memories in her head.

>>526949710
>Play one, ONE game as god
>Everybody decides it's okay to sacrifice an entire universe because he's sad and doesn't want to play the piano

>>526950663
Maelle's ending is definitely the more in your face grim one, Verso's is more unsaid aside from watching the immediate party fade away.

We started the fire, fuck the Dessendre family
#ripbozo #packwatch
This post was made by the Writer Gang

>>526950663
>Gustave calling her over while everybody else waves her goodbye
I don't get it

>>526951024
Even if it's lessened since leaving the canvas, he probably represents her lingering regret over not being able to keep the canvas.

>>526950905
Also Lune giving Verso absolute murder eyes and sitting down in defiance.

>>526950663
The devs clearly don't think of their characters as real people, therefore it's okay to murder them all.

>>526951020
t.Verso

>>526950874
Yeah he was clearly the favorite child, idc what the fuck painted Verso said on the Reacher about Alicia being the actual favorite.

>>526950054
Apparently, Aline was a turbocunt even before the fire. And Renoir may have always been the controlling one.
That's why I don't think that putting the already traumatized girl back into this pretty dysfunctional family is as such a good idea as Verso's ending proposes.

>>526951368
It is definitely something interesting to think about since Verso did not want to be a painter, but a musician. And what do you do to create music? You write it.

>>526951565
Verso was Aline's favourite. Alicia was Renoir's.

>>526951735
And Clea is the one that got forced into being a 3rd parent, probably from a young age to boot

>>526951624
He's way too chill in the fire scene too, he seems more disturbed that Alicia got caught in the fire antics than in dying

>>526952229
Because it's not a real scene, but Alicia's nightmare.

>>526949481
>>526949710
I'd actually argue Clea is a good egg, she may be a bit cold but from every interaction she seems to have the most level head on her shoulders.
The chief problem in this family are the parents, ESPECIALLY Aline.

>>526952635
I honestly think painted Verso was on the verge of going along with Maelle's plan if not for Aline finding and jumping back in the canvas during the final boss. His immediate doubt and regret is written all over his face when it happens.

>>526953158
Between that and directly witnessing the toll it was taking on her, yeah that sealed the deal in his mind. Any possibility of him going along with Maelle was gone in that moment.

At least we can all agree Aline is a terrible mother

I think people forget that Verso is just as fucked up as Maelle and that he isn't making purely selfless decisions. He states repeatedly that he wants to die and he even shows that he is willing to kill everyone he knows just so that he can finally die. He does not view himself or other painted lives as real because of his unique perspective as part of a family created just to pretend to be someone else for a painter's amusement. I think he was fine with saving Maelle but he likely would have still asked her to kill him. It was once he realized that she was going to kill herself that he said fuck it, I will again throw away everyone else's life because they are all painted and you are real to me. Verso is suicidally mentally ill and he shouldn't be viewed as making a wholly selfless choice.

>>526953979
She is.
Our cinnamon bun didn't deserve that.

>>526954553
Coming back to add to this, the clearest example we get of how Verso thinks are Monoco and Esquie. He repeatedly shows to them that he assumes they think of him as just a replacement for old Verso. Every time they tell him directly that that's not true; they love both him and old Verso and recognize that they are similar and different. It's only Verso that cannot stop thinking of himself as anything more than a replacement and a fake person and it's that, which is intertwined with his desire to die, that makes him want to kill everyone and himself. Verso is being totally irrational due to a distorted sense of himself and reality and suicidal depression that makes him totally devalue himself and all painted life while only valuing life outside the canvas.

>>526954553
Well, the irony is not lost on my that Verso gets very upset that Maelle forces him to live the life he doesn't want, but is fine forcing Maelle to live a life SHE doesn't want.
But it's allegedly for her own good, so it's fine.

>>526955010
Palicia, I will protect you.

>>526955425
Yeah, and I've thought about that too a bit. In the end I think Verso is being selfish because he cannot see himself ever having a good life. This is something I came up with now but he might have even been trying to get Maelle to be angry enough at him to erase him when he tried to kick her out of the canvas. Whether she erases him or Renoir erases the canvas, he gets what he wants and dies. The problem is that because he has convinced himself so hard that all painted life is fake and doesn't matter, he doesn't care if everyone else dies to achieve it.

In the end, Maelle isn't even being particularly cruel. She isn't torturing Verso. I don't think there is any indicator that he is being forced to play piano against his will. I think he is just very negative and he cannot value anything inside the canvas. Instead of looking forward to spending time with Maelle and friends, all he can see is that Maelle will die early in the real world and he still has to live.

>>526950341
Fuck no
Im still mad about Triangle Strategy's golden path ruining 3 perfectly good gray endings in favor of a gay "everyone is happy now" route

Post 'em
>Favorite party member
>Favorite character in the game
>Favorite skill
>Favorite boss
>Favorite dungeon
>Favorite OST
>Preferred ending
>Biggest DLC hope

>>526958349
>Favorite party member
Maelle
>Favorite character in the game
Maelle
>Favorite skill
Sword Ballet
>Favorite boss
Sirène
>Favorite dungeon
Forgotten Battlefield
>Favorite OST
Une vie à t'aimer
>Preferred ending
Maelle
>Biggest DLC hope
I would love if they continued from Maelle's ending, but this time with gustave in the party from start to finish

>>526958349
Verso
Maelle
End Bringer
Dualliste/Pallicia/Goglra (can't decide)
Sirene, even though the enemies sucked
World Map - Dechire la toile
M
Expedition 0

Most popular items in the Steam Point Shop currently

Do you think Maelle purposely didn't let Verso say goodbye to Alicia to punish him?

>>526950663
I once read a comment, "Any functioning adult would choose Verso. Maelle's ending is for children."

They weren't wrong. They wrote Maelle as a child for a reason.

>>526958349
>Favorite party member
Verso
>Favorite character in the game
Lune
>Favorite skill
Lightning Dance
>Favorite boss
Simon
>Favorite dungeon
Flying Waters
>Favorite OST
Eveque's theme
>Preferred ending
Verso's
>Biggest DLC hope
I'd rather them just focus on their next project, though I wouldn't mind a balance patch

>>526955425
>But it's allegedly for her own good

She's a naive 16-year-old girl in a comatose state in the basement of her house who will eventually die from essentially overdosing on hallucinogens for an inevitably doomed fantasy world.
There's nothing "alleged" about it; it's the shit ending.

Alicia cosplaying as Maelle is cringe.

>>526983770
>inevitably doomed
Your life is inevitably doomed, whether you live in the canvas or in the real world.

When do you find out Maelle is a drug addict?

>>526997681
After you undergo a lobotomy and refuse to take your medication before playing the game

>>526958349
>Favorite party member
Lune
>Favorite character in the game
Alicia. All four of them.
>Favorite skill
Typhoon
>Favorite boss
Lampmaster
>Favorite dungeon
Flying Manor
>Favorite OST
Children of Lumiere
>Preferred ending
Maelle
>Biggest DLC hope
None. Give me a proper sequel instead.

I dunno what the devs were thinking with the Reacher NOT being a mandatory quest in Act 3.
This quest is so important to Alicia and her later decision to stay in the canvas, yet it can be completely skipped.

>>526999901
Anything that significant of a story cutscene should've been at the very least recommended in Act 3 and the final area should've been scaled accordingly.

>>526999901
obvious cut content
same as Frozen Heart in Act2, zone which is "recalled" in the monolith before the paintress and was obviously part of a Monoco station quest to unlock the way to old lumière
same as Yellow Harvest in Act 1 (info coming directly from the devs)
etc. etc.
seems like they cut half the game in order to keep up the rythme and shorten the length of the game to ensure most people will experience the whole story

>>527003513
I figured they were just keeping things short on purpose or they were incompetent new devs. Hearing that they could have done more if they didn't choose to cut content makes me feel optimistic for what they will do on their next game with all the money from this one.

>>527003513
>still don't know what the boy in Yellow Harvest does
>still don't know what the wooden stick does
oh well

Finally got Simon and finished all achievements, what now...

>>527006837
>What now? We go back to Lumiere and… life goes on?

>>527007139
>well, I do have a surprise for you

>>526958349
>Favorite party member
Verso
>Favorite character in the game
Renoir
>Favorite skill
Rain of Fire
>Favorite boss
Dualliste
>Favorite dungeon
Sirene
>Favorite OST
Lumiere
>Preferred ending
Verso
>Biggest DLC hope
At most, focus on challenge content and new build variety to bolster NG+ runs, prefer them to do a sequel.

>>527007282
>Favorite party member
Maelle
>Favorite character in the game
pRenoir
>Favorite skill
Sword Dance
>Favorite boss
pRenoir
>Favorite dungeon
Sirene
>Favorite OST
Une vie à t'aimer
>Preferred ending
Maelle
>Biggest DLC hope
Expedition 0/Julie/Painted family

>>526958349
>Favorite party member
Monoco
>Favorite character in the game
Renoir
>Favorite skill
Lampmaster
>Favorite boss
Simon or Renoir
>Favorite dungeon
Flying Manor
>Favorite OST
Une vie à t'aimer
>Preferred ending
Verso
>Biggest DLC hope
That there is no DLC if it's going to be worse than the base game.

just throwing it out there in the interest of discussion, what if the sequel ends up making the writers like eco-terrorists in that they targeted the Dessendres because they knew that painters could create sentient life with their powers and that life had no rights or protection?

>>526958349
>Favorite party member
Verso
>Favorite character in the game
Gustave
>Favorite skill
Phantom Stars
>Favorite boss
Lampmaster
>Favorite dungeon
They weren't really dungeon-y
>Favorite OST
The OST that plays when you fight Renoir
>Preferred ending
Maelle
>Biggest DLC hope
New game

>>527008307
That would be incredibly lame.
>Stop right there criminal scum! Cease your godhood at once!

Fuck you, she's real to me.

>>527008307
I mean that is the plot of FF7.

>>526752525
do you guys like clair obscur or lumiere more? i cant decide, more melancholic or slower or the other sounds happier and more innocent
https://youtu.be/iqizXvvWnmM?si=-hSlHUl3up7bQDsy
https://youtu.be/pNEB3i1thU4?si=YX6WJzHPhVjlrh8f

>>527008307
I'd think it's weird since I assumed that they were also creating magical art, and if they aren't writing about characters that either come to life or they have control over, I'm not sure what their powers would be.

>>526752525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK1vBuVpFmY

>>526752525
It's fucking impossible to choose so i'll just pick one of my favorites from the ones nobody chose yet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc-6bPYg9yE

>>526752525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNbB-gzZAiU

>>527030720
>>527008307
There's a few writing related super powers I've thought up.
1) Geass aka geas. Painters paint for history and entertainment, while writers enforce binding vows or contracts. What's written or agreed upon must be followed.
2) Neon Nostrade's nen ability Lovely Ghostwriter where the fortunes all come true.
3) Writers decide what fiction should become real. Painters paint possible worlds while writers decide what should exist.

So anons, are you going to be making use of the new challenges?
The dmg limiting ones seem a bit anti fun, but I think I'll make use of the HP multiplier in my current NG+ run.

>>527037740
>3) Writers decide what fiction should become real. Painters paint possible worlds while writers decide what should exist.
This one has some fun potential. You can even have a mindfucky dillemma where the protagonist starts wondering if the choices made were their own or did some writer wrote it this way.

>>527038078
x20 hp is enough for me to be able to go full retard without killing everything, it's pretty fun

>>527040426
Tried Simon with 100x HP, got my ass absolutely blasted. probably need a lot of Lumina and very specific builds to beat him like that without spending 1 hour, Stendhal isn’t enough.

I chose to fight as Maelle ;_;

>Painted Alicia
>Alicia
>Maelle
Told you, 3 different characters.
Maellicia simply doesn't exist, Maelle dies and Alicia takes over.

>>527055972
>post-credits cute dev thank you art
>BRO IT'S CONFIRMED THAT-
I can smell your desperation from here.

What was his problem?

>>527056543
His wife made a caricature of him

>>527056543
>I’ll lobotomize and use Alicia to save my wife and then get hecking surprised that she’s fucked up :O

Simo just cheated my cheat death picto

>>527055972
How do you know?

>>527056543
Nothing, I think he actually might be more reasonable than real Renoir.

>>526752525
Une vie à t'aimer, that song got stuck my skull for weeks now

>>527055972
...why does this game attract the most autistic of fanbases?

>>527064121
>Peindre l'amour
>Peindre la vie
>Pleurer en couleur
Gets me so fucking hyped every time I hear it.
Every time I play this song I'm waiting for this part like an excited kid.
The whole song is great, but there's just something about this part....

I love the violin :)

Can you farm the level 33 weapon upgrade material anywhere?

when did you fall in love anon

>>527067959
It helps I got there while underleveled when I reached that stage (I took the advice of anons to do the mainstory first a little too hard), I had a lot of minutes hearing that song the violin was amazing too

>>527069327
This is when

>>527069327
At this exact moment.

Struggling to move on from this game and play something else so I've been watching other people play it, but holy shit watching streamers play this game is absolutely surreal. I've never seen so many retards just flat out misunderstand the story, miss details that explain character motivations, completely misunderstand long running mechanics even all the way up to the final boss, just insanity.

>>526855618
The easiest way is to just cheese it with Maelle and 1shot his second form. I did like 164 million damage to him in one hit, and I think he only has like 45-50 mil HP in phase 2. If cheesing doesn't bother you, a build like this will accomplish what you need: https://maxroll.gg/clair-obscur-expedition-33/planner?profile=at66b00i

>>527081483
How can you be surprised?
99% of streamers are stupid losers whose only real ability is make people laugh, usually by making even bigger asses of themselves.
The average stream viewer/chat spammer cannot realistically have an IQ over 90.
You mean to tell me that people actually sit, for hours on end, and watch some basement dweller waste their money on stupid shit, all the while spamming "pogs" or whateverthefuck hoping their favorite parasocial "friend" glosses over their message for a millisecond?
I refuse to believe people like that are real. At worst they have to be bots...
And I'm not even talking about the lonely fucks who want to hear someone in the background while they waste their life grinding an obscure MMO or whatever, that's a different matter.

It's best to make your own conclusions about things, and not listen to "internet personalities" about anything, until you've done your own research or formed your own opinions. Only then should you start comparing the two, and if something they said is persuasive enough, you can modify them.

Anyway, lune feet, maelle uoooh amirite kids?

>>527065317
It's Atlusfags trying to grasp on straws, trying to make stupid discussions because Metaphor is a bad game and they're tired to shill a bad game.

>>526953979
Aline is a legitimate self-serving piece of shit that deserves a painful death.

>>526993939
People cosplay as their WoW characters all the time

>>527083883
>How can you be surprised?
I mean I'm not really for all the reasons you listed. But at the same time, witnessing the conclusions people come to in real time, in response to what they're seeing and reading on screen, and it being the complete opposite of the intention or a complete misunderstanding of the characters is just baffling.

>>526953979
>>527084341
Aline is the real villain.
Maybe she didn't do anything evil directly, but her inability to cope and her (what is essentially a) drug habit led her to dooming not only herself, but also her daughter (in the Maelle ending) and the last remaining shred of Verso's mementos that the family could've continued enjoying were it not for her selfish actions.

>>527055972
Low-IQ take. Alicia and Maelle are the same character: They're literally the same consciousness. It's not a difficult concept if you have anything above a double-digit IQ. Using "Thank you" art to try and push your midwit take is so comically desperate that it weakens your case even further.
Picrel
>SSJ3 Goku, SSJ Goku, Base Goku, Kid Goku. SEE THEY'RE ALL SEPARATE IN THIS OFFICIAL ART, THEY ARE FOUR DIFFERENT CHARACTERS.
Fucking idiot.

>>527085098
Not to mention the fact that she treats her daughter like shit. I have a lot of contempt for Aline.

>>527085153
nta and I don't really disagree but please tell me you didn't just compare dragon ball mid to the one and only Clair Obscur: Expedition 33.

>muh cute girl with big eyes

Just finished Clair Obscur first time going in blind and goddamn did that ending hit me in the feels, I went in fully expecting to be all yeah fuck it Im gonna save my waifus in the game but it actually convinced me to go with Versos ending and it really did pain me to do it, but it just felt like the right thing to do. And thank fuck I was rewarded with that epilogue because that shit was heart breaking to do

The main story concept and writing is really good, like 8/10 minimum, alot of the side dialogue was abit too melodramatic for me, felt very YA novel for girls, but the main plot more than made up for it, aswell as the beautiful environments, character designs, overall ambience. I really enjoyed the turn-based with dodge/parry combat too, as well as variety of build crafting.

Great gaym overall if somewhat overhyped (definitely not the best game of all time but this one will definitely stick with me for a long time)

>>527096740
Oh and I fully went in thinking I was gonna like muh Asian waifu the most but Sciel ended up being super endearing, and I did end up caring for all of the cast eventually

>>527096980
also this made me lol

>>527056543
He was the TOO fucking handsome version

>>527097183
for me it was Esquie that stole the show

>>527100461
I didn't expect myself to like the comic relief so much

>>526947704
retard thinks soulless NPCs that can be resurrected at will are just as important as people that not only stay dead when they die, but are capable of creating countless NPCs in countless worlds
AND THEIR EXISTENCE IS AT RISK DUE TO THE WRITER WAR
you are the dumbest gorilla nigger I have ever encountered in these threads
gommage yourself

>>526958349
>Favorite party member
Verso
>Favorite character in the game
Verso
>Favorite skill
Follow up
>Favorite boss
Dualliste/Simon
>Favorite dungeon
Visages
>Favorite OST
Lumiere
>Preferred ending
Verso
>Biggest DLC hope
None or another game. Maybe expedition 60.

>>527109754
The painted people can also paint. See painted Clea. And there's a canvas in the Manor which is in the canvas, meaning that canvasses within canvasses can exist.

Also, if you have a world where time moves faster, it makes sense that they have a far faster cycle for developing weapons to murder the writers with. If you can figure a way to move them out of the canvas and mobilise them, you can have hyperbolic time chamber babies grown to adults in hours that are extremely loyal to you. If you figure out a way to trap other people in canvasses, you can keep your enemies contained forever.

Even if they can't physically exit the canvas you could have them pilot drones or some shit. And imagine if the half painter half painted kids can actually exit the canvas.

>>527109754
Gustave created the means to control the foundational structure of his world, he was just unaware of the true nature of his world to scale it up appropriately.
The painters have not and are likewise unaware. Therefore yes the painters are less important than the lumierans.

>>527110528
I think painted people painting are more like automated subroutines seeded by a painter instead of actually creative painting. Also, it does not change the fact that you cannot resurrect real people, and that the existence of souls in the setting has deep implications regarding what actually counts as a person (or even a philosophical zombie, in the most pessimistic case and interpretation).

>>527110660
Good thing painters can just farm worlds for similar insights. I bet you think the latest iteration of chatGPT is more important than your own mother.

>>527110982
Ironically it's the AIfags that seem to be on the side of the canvases not being real because to admit the people that inhabit them are human admits that one day they will have to cope with an AI being given that same humanity.
So stop projecting AIfag.

Did anyone else realise that the game is a retelling of inception? Just me?

>>527110982
They do have souls because you can't reuse the chroma of mega old dead people to make new ones, suggesting its gotten imprinted. This magic shit is too overpowered, they're not AI, they are people who can reproduce and teach themselves. Just imagine if you teach them to paint and shit out an army of reality warping gonzos.

One of the best plot points in a book I read was when the painter villain with painty magic, creates life by painting an imposter for the throne into reality and teaches them to pretend to be the person that they are replacing.

>>527111216
I admit that one day AI could be a person (actual person, not just AGI), but in this setting we have souls, which is what enables personhood in settings that have them, so you have to account for that.

>>527111379
I don't think that shows they have souls, but even if I were to concede that, they would be lesser souls compared to real souls by virtue of them needed a real soul (in this case Verso's) to sustain them in the canvas and to create them in the first place. Also, AI is able to reproduce and teach itself/themselves too.

Now, going back to the writer war, since writers seem to be able to affect base reality (or what we think is base reality), how is painting going to compare in warfare? At best they could try to use it as an AI or use the time exploit (better if nested) to give themselves time to think, maybe they could trap or brainwash people, but, ultimately, it seems they are at a dire disadvantage.

>>527112981
Yes and chroma is the soul. The game tells you as much the instant we get to goblu.

>that short period of time where you thought Une vie à t'aimer was hyping you up to get revenge for the fallen Expedition 33 members

>>527109754
>they are less important because they can be resurrected at will
>permanently destroys their reality, making them unable to be resurrected, therefore making their deaths just as final as the people who he is claiming are more valuable because their deaths are final
????

>>527117825
>permanently destroys their reality
yes
>making them unable to be resurrected
wrong
painters can conjure them up again from memory
unless you think act 3 Lune and Sciel are not the same ones we meet at the start, counter to what the game shows us

>>527118009
As far as we know, there is no way to take chroma out of a canvas and no indication that whatever imprint of the person it held will remain if used to make them in a new canvas. It would be the equivalent of a painter killing you and saying it doesn't matter because they can just make a new you inside a canvas.

>>527118272
by the visible properties of chroma, it seems the pattern it forms coupled with the memorized essence of the painter is what actually matters
I would say that is also what makes them lesser souls. The extent of their physicality and how much its existence hinges on it.

>>527118570
I would say that based on how much Maelle values this particular canvas, and how she saw absolutely no alternative to staying inside it forever, this is probably not the case. If this were true, she could have easily converted everyone to chroma, left the painting and let Renoir destroy it, and just put everyone back in a new painting with all of their memories intact. Renoir could also have done the same and used that as a bargaining chip. ("I've already taken all your friends away, and I'll only give them back if you leave the canvas and use it responsibly.") There is no indication that chroma works the way you describe and plenty of indication that it works this way instead because otherwise there would be huge plot holes.

>>527118951
Or hell, all Aline would have had to do was delete everyone, turn them to chroma, and leave the moment Renoir starts getting upset at her, and then put them all in a new canvas.

>>527118951
I think she just wanted to be in that particular canvas because of the fragment of Verso's soul it contained. Sciel explicitly says that "death isn't death anymore" which means that it is not merely a copy but a resurrection when she paints them again (and it seems it works even if the memories come from another painter since Aline is her orginal creator). Also, Verso does use the fact she can paint other worlds on his ending, which only makes sense as a bargaining chip if it means you can conjure whatever you want in them as painters seem prone to do (irresponsibly).

>>527119403
The fragment of Verso's soul was likely made out of chroma, given that it gommages along with him in his ending. And Verso himself begins to gommage just by trying to exit the canvas, only staying alive because he was designed to be immortal/resurrected automatically. The only reason that any of them could not leave is because their lives are somehow tied to the canvas, and if they are tied to the canvas in this way and the canvas can be destroyed, their deaths are just as final as anyone else's.

>>527119843
Yeah, I admit that is a possibility, except I don't think the REAL soul fragment is made out of chroma. It is more likely that it needs a chroma vessel to be anchored to or something like that. I think even the visual cues suggest something like that, with the golden cracks/heterogenous component aesthetic it has.

>>527120260
I just think that if you look at the attitudes and actions of all the painter characters, it should be obvious that they believe that painted life has value and is sentient. I mean, Renoir even takes time to talk to the expedition, showing sympathy to Sciel for her dead husband and son (who wasn't even born, so take that as you will for whether or not painted life has a soul if Renoir respects the lives of unborn painted infants) and actually reasons with them instead of immediately killing them for being worthless automatons that are being used by his daughter. You are shown over and over that painted people are sentient and have real feelings because that's how every painter treats them. Some value their lives more than others, but no one except people outside of the story makes the claim that they aren't sentient or don't have souls.

>>527120968
I think they can feel. I think the philosophical zombie interpretation is the worst (or maybe best, depending on perspective) possible one. I do think they can feel and might even be self-aware. I just think they are also soulless (or have an ontologically inferior pseudosoul) and that has implications regarding their importance as people and ease of resurrection (including inter-canvas resurrection).

>>527085153
>ur stupid im so high IQ 4real
>so about based dragon ball n goku and shit lmao
Ok.

Before I even lurk this general ornpost about anything else, I have to profusely apologize to Sandfall because I was under the impression when thus game came out that it was just another SQUAREslop fotm leCINEMA garbage and I just assumed I was never going to play it. It was by a huge coincidence that I got exposed to the actual game a week ago and found that it is, in fact, one of the best videogames I have ever played in my 32 years on this earth. I am completely enthralled by it, to a point I didn't think possible for a game to do that to me by now. This game has single handedly rejuvenated my belief that we can still get good games instead of vapid slop to be mindlessly played for passing time. It's honestly fucking inspiring, especially discovering itnwas made by basically a bunch of nobodies who just got together because they wanted to make this.

/blog

also, idk what the feeling towards 60 is in here, but I'm actually not a huge fan of having le silly meme gigachad expedition in this universe. I get that it was sort of easter-eggy and it's just a fun detail and does't really matter in the bug scheme of things, but I find the people who think lememe E60 is really funny and cool to be pretty cringe.

>>527119403
>Sciel explicitly says that "death isn't death anymore"
She also says a bunch of retarded shit throughout the whole game, and Verso and her also have a conversation where he asks her if she would choose to bring back Pierre knowing that it wasn't really "him" which implies that a painted copy isn't really the original consciousness. I think this is also reinforced by what we're shown of how the resurrection of Sciel and Lune happened. The reason they get resurrected as the originals is not just that Maelle had fresh chroma, but that she got "their" fresh chroma right after they gommaged ("i can see them"). Think of it like reviving someone who just entered cardiac arrest vs making a clone using a deceased person's DNA

>>527132474
so you think Gustave is not actually the Gustave we knew in Maelle's ending? I think once she has total control of the chroma in the canvas, we could say she is able to do full resurrection without having to have "their" fresh (so to speak) chroma

>>526958349
>>Favorite party member
I assme this means gameplay wise? I'd say Sciel then
>>Favorite character in the game
I guess Lune. Painted Alicia is also pretty underrated I feel like...
>>Favorite skill
Steeled strike
>>Favorite boss
Serpenhare (if you don't go overleveled) sticks out in my mind
>>Favorite dungeon
I don't think I have one so I'll cheat and say the Monolith
>>Favorite OST
Mist of the OST lives rent free in my head depending on the day, but I guess alicia
>>Preferred ending
"preferred" is a tricky word. Verso's is definitely thenmos satisfying and natural end to the story. I picked Maelle the first time around though, sommake ofnthat what you will
>>Biggest DLC hope
I hope they make none and I hope to God they don't make any sequels. The story stands perfectly on its own and doesn't need expanding. Just move one to the next thing that will hopefully be as good in its own way.

>>527134246
>so you think Gustave is not actually the Gustave we knew in Maelle's ending?
Yes. I think that's oart of what makes that ending so bleak. Alicia's effectively become cosmic dictator of world she built to escape reality. She brought Gustave and Soph back probably knowing full well it's not really them anymore but she just wants to build this giant coping mechanism for herself and just ignore any reality that may interfere with that.

>>527134460
Not sure if I agree with the resurrection mechanics, but it is a coherent interpretation, and it makes the trade-off a bit more tragic.

The Old Grandis at Monoco station "learning the gestral way" are actually an allegory, wishing for a change of attitude towards the brown masses flooding France.
You can't convince me otherwise.

>>527007282
ngl, one of the very few continuity flaws that really bug me is that Verso clearly drops Painted Alicia's letter in the sea but then Maelle says she found/read it in one of her act3 time spending moments.

I really don't like the drug addiction analogy. It's clunky and breaks down really fast once further analyzed.

>>527112981
Tbh we don't really know if this setting has true souls or just a mechanism that is colloquially called a soul. When one creates a great work it is said they put their heart and soul into it. The canvas soul may well just be a remnant of creative energy from the person. Verso's soul fragment may as well not even be a soul, just some sort of painter magic they call a soul for simplicity because they don't even understand what happens when they paint. There are a fuckload of assumptions happening that have no basis.

>>527140783
>It's clunky and breaks down really fast once further analyzed.
What do you mean by this?
Sure it's a bit deeper than aline sticking needles in her ass, but I'd say it's pretty accurate.
Maybe she's not addicted, but she's not willing to let go anyway.

>>527143196
It's too gross an analogy. Aline/Alicia aren't really "addicted" like a chemically addict junkie is. It's not really like that. It's just an inability to cope with loss and letting go. It's really that straightforward and I don't think you need to make it an analogy for anything else. Sure you can make it work as that, it's fine, but I don't like that people try to make it out like that's THE analogy thenstory is about because I think it's inaccurate.

Drug addiction often takes drastically different forms, and often the addicts know they have a problem and even want help fixing it, and the problem for them is that they are literally chemically dependent on this substance that's harming them. It's often not mental at all. Grief, or even more generally the inability to deal with loss is a far deeper issue that's phsychological. You will have a very hard time convincing someone coping that they are in fact coping and that they need to let it go. I was going to say that if you ever lost someone or something that was really important and meaningful to you you can understand how hard it can be to see that you're going down the wrong mental path when you do, but it doesn't even need to be that drastic. You can experience different types of poor handling of loss in every day life. Even in regards to the fucking game itself, even though I know Alicia is wrong in the end (or at the very least acting for the wrong reasons) I still have a very hard time going with Verso simply because it's tough to have to let go of the painted world and the characters I've grown attached to, even though they are completely fake video game characters from my perpective that I can just boot up and play with all over again at any time. It has very little to do with a chemical dependance the way I see it.

>>527147460
To be fair, Alicia's problem isn't "letting go". Alicia simply doesn't want to return to the world in which she has to physically suffer. That's actually a pretty human response.
And Renoir's biggest failure is not providing her with a reason as to why should she return in the first place.

>>527085098
My neighbor had a daughter who died to drugs and she basically became Aline irl, just in forever mourning mode and her family unable to snap her out of it. It was a sad spiral to see, this woman never went outside after her daughter's death, just ordered vast quantities of fast food, never took out the trash and let things pile from floor to ceiling, and wallowed in her own depression until she had a heart attack and died. Her family is white trash so no one really made any real attempt to get this woman to snap out of it. Having seen what my neighbor went through, Aline is very real to me.

>>527148296
You're confusing what she says from what she feels. She says that but that's not REALLY why she doesn't want to.go back. How do I know this? For one, thengame outright tells you through Verso that she was lying to her father during that final confrontation and that Renoir was even aware of this but chose to "believe" in her (another form of delusion people often suffer from but that's an issue for a different discussion) and she corroborates this by every single action and emotional cue during her showdown with Verso. She talks and acts like an unreasonable person lashing out of desperation that she might have to give up THIS specific alternate reality. It doesn't even make sense she would be that bothered about erasing Verso's canvas ifnitnreally was about her not wanting her real life. After all, she's a paintress, she can paint anything she wants in another canvas if this one is destroyed. Verso even points that out to her in the end that she's a paintress and thus will.never have to suffer a life she doesn't want. She'll be fine.

The truth is that all that was a bunch of emotionally manipulative bullshit (both to convince her father and maybe even herself) to hide the fact that she just didn't want to part with the canvas of her brother (and metaphorically, by extension, parting with her brother)

toenails are finally fixed
Only for the expedition clothes set
and only for paypigs
did lumen smearing get worse in the update? updated my copy with new elamigos patches, only have Enhanced Lumen engine.ini installed, seems a bit more crappy

>The creator god died and his ghost roams the world
It's pretty fucking metal concept when you think about it

>>527151768
Aline is like those crazies who try to lucid dream to see the dead people they know again. I will never understand the appeal of recreating real dead people in lucid dreams.

>>527085098
Aline is like those crazies who try to lucid dream to see the dead people they know again. I will never understand the appeal of recreating real dead people in lucid dreams.

You know how they say that it's a really bad idea to write real person fiction? Just imagine doing it with real dead people, only now you bring actual people who are now inflicted with those traumas into existence. Unethical as a fuck!

>>527149418
>>527148296
Thing is, Verso is NOT EVEN her brother. He looks like him and sounds like him and behaves like him, but absolutely isn't the genuine article. That's why Verso gets the 'oh fuck' moment when she calls him brother. He knows she has latched onto him just like Aline has and won't ever let him go.

You just know the instant she doesn't get mad at him the instant he admits he could have saved Gustave but didn't. The gears in Maelle's mind is turning towards having Gustave back and having Verso too.

>>527149418
>After all, she's a paintress, she can paint anything she wants in another canvas if this one is destroyed.
But what does that change? She just exchanges one addiction for another.

>>527153854
yeah, basically. As I see it, in her ending she is basically completely invested in her delusion and it no longer matters to her who her painted people are as long as they look and sound like the people she remembers. At the end of the day Renoir knew his daughter and was proven to be absolutely justified in his hardline approach to the canvas.

>>527155323
again you're being led completely astray by the stupid "addiction" metaphor. That has no bearing on what's going on. She doesn't want to give up this canvas because it's the one she's emotionally attached to. Nothing to do with addiction. The while point about her being able to oaint another world anyway she want in other canvases just serves as a foil to her coping argument that the reason she doesn't want this canvas destroyed is because she doesn't want her real life, plainly showing that's not actually her true reason because even though it's a truthful solution to her stated problem, she's still not satisfied with it. Because the real reason she doesn't want to part with the canvas is because she does not wanr to let go (of her brother, that painted Lumiere, her brother's soul and essence and creations, of Sciel, Lune...) It's not addiction, as in a drug addiction. meth head cares not fir WHICH meth he gets, he just wants the meth. See the difference? Maelle can get new friends, new "family", new adventure and ourpose to her life, but she doesn't want these new things, she wants to cling to these and deny that her losses ever happened. "I can just bring them back, see? it's fine, I just brought Gustave back! It's really him, because I painted him! Oh Verso, you are tired of this eternal life? That's fine! I'll just make itnsonyou can grow old now haha, ALL IS FINE, no one ever died and no one is unhappy..... because I painted it so...."

But as Verso said, there are things you can't outrun. Eventually Verso will grow old and die. Or Gustave, or Sciel, or Lune. Maybe one or multiple if them even die earlier due to accident or other tragedy. Is she just going to revive everyone every time? Forever? Eventually she WILL have to deal with losing these people that aren't even the original ones, let alone "real". It's not addiction, it's inability to deal with loss.

Could someone explain to me rVerso's relationship to the Visages axon?
I get Cleas.
I get Alines.
Alicia's still confuses me a little but I don't get Verso's at all.
I'd understand if it was painted to resemble pVerso, but since we know nothing about the real one, I can't quite put my finger on the mask symbolism that Renoir intended.

>>527157691
Verso spends the entire game wearing masks to protect the truth with lies.

>>527158650
Only pVerso does.
And he's not the real Verso, on who the Axon should be based.

>>527156964
But that's false equivalence. The game in the end just forces her to exchange one family and one life for another, the one that she feels is inferior.
It's like someone kicking you out of your house and telling you to live in a trailer, because that's better for you and you have to let go. Why should she even entertain this idea?

>>527162096
>The game in the end just forces her to exchange one family and one life for another,
except one is open ended and ultimately real (from her perspective) and the other really isn't. It's one thing to argue tgat from, say, Lune's perspective, the painted world is just as "real" as ours is to us, which is true, but the same cannot be said for Alicia. That world and that life she lives in there is not real, because it's a subset of the reality she came from.

Her future outside the painting is not at all sealed. Inside the painting it is. In real life she can grow and learn to deal or even overcome the challenges and tragedies life offers (not to mention she can further grow and develop her paintress side too), inside that canvas there's growth that's possible because there are no challenges or tragedies for her to overcome. She's a god in her fantasy world. That's not a life, that's just pure indulgent escapism that won't do real Alicia any good.

this will likely prove a stupid question to ask, but were you in Renoir's shoes, would you be happy, or even just accept that you child would chose ti waste away her life inside a created reality where she just withers away while accomplishing nothing in the real world?

>>527164046
i mean renoir as a father has a responsibility over her daughter but they as a family of painters have a responsibility over their creations. you can't just create a universe, create actual life and then just destroy everything in the blink of an eye, regardless of whether you have an attachment to the creatures that live within it or not

Not sure what else I was expecting with 100x but this made me laugh. Time to actually play the game and figure out how to do decent damage even after the first hit.

>>527166454
That's actually pretty good, my fully buffed Gommage was only doing 150M

>>527165873
but now you're arguing a different thing. Incompletely agree that it's at least morally questionable to erase the canvas, but that's not a question that's at the heart of the conflict between Re and Mae.

Let me put it another way: were Maelle mature and reasonable enough to say something like : "Papa, I understand. Even though it hurts to leave I know it's best for me and for everyone else to do so and face reality, painful as it seems at the moment. I'll leave with you now, but Papa, it's not fair for them to be erased because of our personal issues in our realm. I promise to help you keep Maman out of the canvas, but please let's not destroy it." or something to that sentiment then Alicia would've been 100% correct from my perspective and Renoir would be an asshole to abide. But the thing is that this is a story where the main character is not mature or reasonable enough to say that, and thus it forces a hard decision one way or another for Renoir, and although there is definite collateral damage in destroying that painted reality, if it is a choice between that and his daughter (which it is, because she's essentially forcing that dichotomy by not willingly let go of this sub-reality) I can completely understand his decision, even I may not agree with it. I can also see the same reasoning on Verso's side, I mean, of course he would.choose to sacrifice himself and everything else in that realm to save Alicia. Of course he would.

>>527164046
>Her future outside the painting is not at all sealed. Inside the painting it is.
Not really. Maelle's ending is as open-ended as it gets. She can be mentored by the canvas people, Renoir can always return to convince her to go back home, hell, she can get guilty that she lied to her father and return on her own, she can have a therapy session with Verso's soul and process her grief that way. Maelle's ending sends nothing in stone.
>but were you in Renoir's shoes, would you be happy, or even just accept that you child would chose ti waste away her life inside a created reality where she just withers away while accomplishing nothing in the real world?
I want to believe I wouldn't have been in Renoir's shoes, because I would try my damnest NOT to escalate the situation to such a degree my own daughter doesn't want to go back home. And I would be MUCH more patient with my own child that I KNOW is traumatized and depressed.

>>527159208
Real Verso was the one masking his true feelings from the family, pretending he was happy because that's what the family expected of him, while in reality he was most likely quite unhappy.
As for Alicia - that's simple. She was the quiet one with cripplingly low self-esteem, mostly because apparently she was never good enough for Aline. So Renoir evisioned her as someone trying to reach for the sky, while literally everything is against her. Which backfired when Alicia interpreted it as Renoir putting an insane amount of pressure on her.

>>527170480
brother, you are just as high on that copium as Mae is. Did you not see her ending? She absolutely would never willingly leave that world. You think indulging her would make her somehow MORE likely to accept that she needs to leave? That not even naivete, it's downright delusional. There's absolutely no growth or future for her in there. She's playing with cheats on and she's clearly willing to delude herself into an indulgent coma. Her own mother almost nearly killed herself just before her decision to stay, and if that didn't make her see that she probably shouldn't wallow in this fanatsy, I don't know why you'd think just letting her take over the painting would eventually.

And I guess I already expected a non-answer to my question, which is fine.

>>527172397
>She absolutely would never willingly leave that world.
That's just your assumption. And I for one don't believe for a second Renoir would give up on his daughter this easily. And if he does, he just proves Alicia right that she had nothing to return to.
>You think indulging her would make her somehow MORE likely to accept that she needs to leave?
I just don't think that using a shock therapy on a girl that's already pretty distraught to begin with is going to help with anything.
>And I guess I already expected a non-answer to my question, which is fine.
Because it's a false equivalency that I don't agree with. The trolley question that only gives you two absolute options, while ignoring the middle ground.

>>527173570
Anon, that are things you can't outrun. You won't ve able to hack every difficult situation away. This is the whole point of the fucking ending. You are literally huffing copium that "i can fix her" "I'll find a way".

Let me play you scenario as Maelle;
So you, as the great mediator decide in your wisdom that you can just leave me in here and "you'll figure it out". Now I decide to stay and I don't show any signs of changing my mind, and in the meantime you watch over my increasingly feeble body in the real world.... How long do you wait until you do something and what do you do?

>>527174357
You want to hear my masterplan? Sure, here it is.
I would help Alicia fix Lumiere. Then I would leave her with Gustave, Sophie and Emma. I've been hanging out in the Expedition camp for a while, I know they are good people that care about her. And I've seen first hand that the canvas has a good effect on Alicia's self-esteem, so maybe I would just give her some space. Aline at this point needs my help more anyway, so I'll deal with her first.
After Aline's done, I would return to the canvas and we would all go for ice cream or something, where I can finally have a heart-to-heart with my daughter and show her that there are people in the real world that still love her. She's a lost and depressed kid, not a supervillain, tough love won't do shit.

>>527175219
okay, the ice cream is nice and I love the visit, but I'm still not willing to leave. I feel like this is my home now, even moreso than before since I've only grown more attached to this place and these people and more detached from the real world and its' people with who knows how many painted world years have passed. What now? Also btw the clock is still ticking irl and my real body's health is only getting worse

>>527176168
Verso's death wasn't your fault. Nobody's blaming you and you shouldn't blame yourself either.
That's one thing that Renoir in his rant about how he wants his family back forgot to tell her.

>>527176673
okay, I appreciate, but there's no way I'm leaving. I got a family in here now and all these people depending on me. I even have Gustav's and Sophie's kid as an apprentice. I know no one in the real world and I see no reason to go back. I got fake Verso here anyway and I treat him as my brother and he treats me as his sister. For all intents and purposes we are family now. Sorry, but this is my life now, I can't leave it behind.

What now?

>>527177196
Cool, I'll stay with you.

Reminder that Real Verso is a secret writer who set up the entire fire to sabotage his own family because the Dessendre's are high up in the Painter hierarchy.

>>527166454
i thought my DPS was bad with pClea, wtf is this Simon guy

>>526751517 (OP)
Are they going to dub this game in italian/german/spanish etc?

>>527155330
Nah, the painted people are still the same people that they are resurrected. If they are not, it's usually a massive plot point like with the remembrance tanks in doctor who.

Why was Clea making a whole gallery of her own in Flying Manor?

>>527193502
It's especially weird because we literally have the gestrals who are made to reincarnate but without memories, showing that any reincarnation anyone else does is different. Verso himself also isn't exactly immortal, he just keeps coming back to life. He is still the same person with the same memories. If he wasn't, then I imagine Aline would have just made him unable to die.

>>527204429
The gestrals don't lose their memories though. They retain most, but lose some so after multiple reincarnations they fundamentally change as was the case with noco. And isn't verso practically immortal? Dude can get cut in half and be just fine. The only way for him to die is to be gommaged.

>>527214297
From what I remember, he dies and comes back. I believe he says this, and if he gets downed in battle he even says "Did I die again?" He has likely killed himself before so he would know.

>>527198765
idk

>>527181519
>I love to write! Writing is so amazing, I love it!
Obviously. And both Aline and Renoir know it, at least subconsciously.

>>527244005
He sure set that page on fire didn't he.

>>526938430
Augmented Counters
Dodger
Energizing Starts
PP
Auto Rush
SOS Shell
Powerful On Shell

>>526958349
>Favorite party member
Sciel maybe? Or Verso
>Favorite character in the game
best girl Lune
>Favorite skill
Something about Percee is really satisfying
>Favorite boss
Clea was really cool
>Favorite dungeon
I really like Ancient Sanctuary
>Favorite OST
Impossible answer but one I keep coming back to is Megabot#33
>Preferred ending
I flip flop. I think Verso is the right one but both are kino.
>Biggest DLC hope
Cant really think of anything. Somebody mentioned maybe one of the canvases that Renoir had been trapped in before.

>>527109754
Anon they they literally have parents and children. They reproduce.

My skin crawl everytime I see an illiterate nigger trying to sell Verso's ending as the most moral choice.

>>527109754
>NPCs
t. NPC

>>527262521
Well, every psychologist worth their salt is going to tell you that while Renoir's and Verso's intentions were good on paper, their shock therapy methods were very wrong. If anything, they were almost goading Alicia to kill herself the second she gets booted out of the canvas.

>>527165873
erotic feet

>>527270546

>>527272143
Not even into feet, but I would suck those toes like my life depends on it.

>>527272220
based

>>527020684
Lumiere for me

>Want to play something else
>Launch E33 again

>>527279169
Challenge run idea: Lune Solo Expert No Lumina, Simon Kill

>>527279169
i interrupted my kcd2 run to play e33 but now that i finished it i find it difficult to go back or just play other games, i mean kcd2 is a great fucking game and still while i play it's like i am missing something

>>527279169
>>527280625
play Genshin

>>527279169
>another day of Rain from the Ground being stuck in your head
>must be the half-hour Sprong battles

>>526958349
I like Sciel because she is underratedly loved compared to Lune.

>>527279169
I actually wanted to give FF7R a try while I'm in the mood for jRPGs.
I don't like it, waaaaaay too much padding. Maybe I'll just go with FFX instead. Or finally get around to play BG3.

We're getting to that thread 33 even if it kills us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK3vsdtPFH8

IT'S UP

So I just finished the game, I didn’t do any real exploration since I finished act 2, but I get the feeling almost every optional location is empty and without anything interesting (except the reacher, flying manor and endless tower from what I’ve read).

Is this right? I don’t feel like exploring a world that has little payback, and I kinda feel I’ve got my fill of Expedition 33, I loved it but I don’t feel like getting burned on it jus to fight some chromatic rehashes

>>527284012
I did the opposite thing Anon.
"Finished" FFX a couple of days ago >Turn-based combat without active or at least positional defenses sucks
>Just about every encounter is an ambush, you never see the enemies in the open world, you're suddenly transported to the battle arena. And not only that, they happen, I shit you not, every 5-10 seconds; so a normal run goes like: 1. walk for 5 seconds 2. get amsbuhed 3. walk for 10 seconds 4. get ambushed. It's fucking retarded and boring
>technically, every character can get every skill, no uniqueness to any of them
>start of the game up until the very end is a complete breeze without even any grinding
>end of the game is a slog with 7 gorillion hp enemies and lame status effects, need to go out of your way to get weapons
>crafting system is complete garbage, you need to farm enemies ad nauseum to get materials to craft weapons
>nothing unique about any weapon, msot of the time it's deal a certain element or inflict an ailment
The plot was pretty good though. I got bored close to finishing and watched the rest of the cutscenes on youtube
Now I kinda wanted to give FFVIIR a shot.

>>527294042
It's time to stop painting bro vs we're getting to thread 33

>>527295308
>Now I kinda wanted to give FFVIIR a shot.
Like I said, I don't feel it. The plot moves at the glacial pace and feels ridiculously padded.
And then you realize that the OG was the 20+ hour game that was padded into a three parter of 40 hours each. It's like watching the Hobbit movies. At some point just want the game to get on with it already.

>>527295998
But, is the gameplay good Anon?

>>527166454
Alright done. Still didn't play the game, just abused some things I knew existed but didn't think would work here.

>>527296516
Eh. It's allright. A bit too floaty for my tastes. Dark Souls it ain't it.

>>527296516
nta but the boss fights are fun. The combat is nothing special, but it's servicable. I think there are some trouble with character control, feedback and animations. The aerial combat is also really awful when it happens, but I heard they imrpoved this in the sequel.

Does anyone know what the rest of the bug fixes are?

What game can I even play after this without feeling disappointed?

>>527302990
I stopped trying.

>>527302990
>>527305154
i have not played anything for a month straight after this

>>527302990
Either something completely different or another of the JRPG greats to try and recapture the same feel

Imagine what Maelle's feet must smell like after all that running around, haha.

>>527302990
Balatro

>>527302990
I am playing Rocksmith.
Some nerd uploaded the Lumiere track, so I'm learning that

>>527302990
The last game I played that made me feel like this afterwards was disco elysium which I played a couple of months ago.
However we can only experience so many good games in our lifetime.
Just chill and play some stellar blade or lies of p while waiting for the next good game.

>>527334653
>Want to replay DE with the final cut
>Still remember almost everything, even though my first playthrough was one month after launch
Alzheimer can't come soon enough

Time for Expedition 33 K-pop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA_4thDLkoA

Playing Metaphor Re Fantazio after this makes me want to kill myself.

>>527345354
Louis is a better villain.

>>527346734
Is that the blonde faggot from the opening scene? I don't really care. Game's already uninstalled. No reason to play a boring persona game without hot high/middle schooler girls in it for eye candy.

Chromatic Dualiste and Simon are coming

>>527355723
AIEEEEE MAELLE SAVE ME

>>527302990
Have you tried Baldur's Gate 3? That can be an all-consuming experience, if it clicks for you. I currently have a 1000 hours in the game and counting.

Why is Alicia's hair white inside the canvas when it's red in the real world? Same for PAlicia, why is she black and white? Did Aline purposely not give her color as a joke?

>>527358193

>>527358193
Painted Alicia: because Aline is a bitch, probably jealous of her beautiful daughter too
Alicia: because Alicia is a shit paintress and to be fair she was kind in a hurry so she said fuck it i'll colorized this shit later

The real reason, however, is that it looks cool and my post only exists as a free bump

I finished the game, liked it but I lost all motivation to finish the post-game

>>527358193
1. It is somehow intrinsic to immortal beings in canvases.
2. Aline or Verso made the rule that immortal beings have white hair, or Aline wanted her family to have white hair for some reason.

Literally none of this would have happened if someone just bred Maelle.

>>527345354
Yeah I tried playing it after as well, uninstalled after a couple of hours in, just childish writing.

aw shit

>>527369206
My first playthrough I just bum-rushed through the main story because I wanted to see what happened. I'm playing a slow playthrough now trying to find everything.

Asking this during dead hours so I might ask again later but

Has anyone here successfully ripped any 3D models from the game yet? Do you just use FModel? Is there an AES key you need for it?

Just finished the game. Goddamn, this scene. No one has been betrayed harder in fiction than Lune in this moment, and she's making sure Verso fucking KNOWS it. After everything the player has been through with Lune throughout this entire game... it's almost like she's death-staring at you as well. It hurts.

Also, why can't Verso just ask Maelle to gommage him? Why does it have to be suicide AND genocide?

I refuse to believe that Maelle is so stubborn and cruel that she wouldn't even consider that option for him. What does she even gain by keeping him alive as a pet anyway? That can't be something she wants. It feels so wicked and out of character for her.

She knows she's torturing him but does it anyway. That's not who she is, but the ending demanded she turn into this cruel torture god just for the sake of drama. I just didn't buy it.

>>527379610
>She knows she's torturing him but does it anyway. That's not who she is, but the ending demanded she turn into this cruel torture god just for the sake of drama. I just didn't buy it.
This is an interesting take and one I've seen a few times.
I think it's hard to tell who exactly she is. She seems a bit more selfish and deluded in Act III once she becomes Maellecia when you do a lot of the side content.
I don't think what she's doing to Verso comes from being malicious though. She can not comprehend that he wants to die and not exist. I mean, how could you comprehend that from anyone, especially someone that looks exactly like your brother that you just remembered died? Especially when he's been saying for all of Act III how he wants to make amends to the people he lied and work towards a future for Lumiere.
She's not a cruel torture god, she just wants painted Verso to live and to do the thing he wanted to do which was to play music.

But the ending is tragic, just like the Verso ending, because painted Verso doesnt want to live and the ending basically paints him as Maelle's puppet. Both endings are tragic and there is no good ending, this was the intended outcome by the game writers.

I do think you have to put yourself in Maelle's shoes to understand why she keeps Verso alive. It's not so simple as being wicked and manipulative. She just can't cope with the fact that he wants to die. How would you deal with the fact that your sibling wants to die? Wouldn't you want to save them too? Surely you wouldn't just say yeah kill yourself if you really feel like it right?
Both of these endings have absolutely brilliant writing. Even though they both end in tragedies they both show their own advantages and disadvantages and the perspective of Maelle and Verso for why they do what they do in their perspective endings.

>>527379610
>It feels so wicked and out of character for her.
Why does everybody assume she deliberately tortures him? The whole point of Maelle's ending is that she wants to give everybody she cares about, herself included a "happy ending" she thinks they deserve. She's not "torturing" Verso, she's trying to give him a happy end and a reason to keep on living. But the whole tragedy of the situation is that she's just a broken, traumatized girl that is playing around in a make-believe world. It's a deconstruction of "happily ever after".
Granted, she's more or less subconsiously selfish, because she doesn't want to let go of Verso and her found family, but she's not doing this thing out of malice, but from a desperate desire to finally be happy for once.

>>527384460
trvth nvke

>>527382501
>How would you deal with the fact that your sibling wants to die? Wouldn't you want to save them too? Surely you wouldn't just say yeah kill yourself if you really feel like it right?
Also, keep in mind that this is the very same thing Verso does to HER in his ending. She also doesn't to live the life of a mute cripple that Verso forces her into and would rather die in a painting. But only becuase the game later shows that Maelle somehow got over it in Verso's ending and Verso didn't in Maelle's ending, Verso's ending is considered more "moral".
But if Verso ending showed Maelle jumping off a cliff after attending the funeral, suddenly his ending wouldn't be so sunshine and puppies, would it? And that is a very likely possibilty as well.

I hate that people keep comparing Alicia to Aline, and calling Alicia "delusional" because it only dismisses the true issue.
IMO, Alicia in her ending isn't delusional. She's resigned. She knows the canvas world is an illusion - and she doesn't care, because for her the alternative is even worse. Now that's sad as fuck.

>>527379610
Verso can obviously be happy again IMO, so he's depressed, he can get past that eventually.

>>527384802
"You'll never have to live a life you don't want." She can paint herself into an endless variety of worlds. She doesn't want to let Verso go, but it's one of many options. Verso doesn't get that option in her ending, and he's trapped specifically in a life he stated he doesn't want. It's not comparable when you have the power of creation on one side.

If Alicia jumps off a cliff after attending the funeral, that's a choice she chooses to make.

I think both endings have their complexities, but I think it's reductive to compare them as equivalents. Shit is hard either side of the coin, but not the same.

>>527387534
>She can paint herself into an endless variety of worlds.
Yes, but this doesn't solve her issue on not wanting to live in a real world to begin with due to her both mental and physical traumas.
Also, doesn't that defeat the purpose of "you have to face your reality" message the game keeps hammering, when upon facing her reality she immediately creates a new canvas to run away to?

>>527387724
>Yes, but this doesn't solve her issue on not wanting to live in a real world to begin with due to her both mental and physical traumas.
It doesn't, but it doesn't take away half as much from her as it does from Verso imo. Let my boy rest.
>Also, doesn't that defeat the purpose of "you have to face your reality" message the game keeps hammering, when upon facing her reality she immediately creates a new canvas to run away to?
Yep, but it's also in the game, so I see it as creativity being an escapism. Not a bad thing, and she'll be less attached to other canvas, so I imagine she'd be more responsible about it. Renoir and Aline have been in hundreds of canvases.

>I think God should give up on our world and kill us all because maybe God can go be God in a different universe so why do we matter?

Who would even want to live with Renoir the genocidal psychopath after all he has done? He has murdered millions of people and caused immense suffering because he won't let his wife live in a canvas of her own choice, he has no right to control her. Verso is incredibly selfish, willing to murder every living creature and his "friends" just so he gets to die because he's depressed.

>>527388189
>Not a bad thing, and she'll be less attached to other canvas, so I imagine she'd be more responsible about it.
I am not very sure of that, because wanting to hang out with Verso is one thing. Not wanting to live in a reality where she is a cripple is another. You can paint yourself a million canvases and that won't change the fact that the reality still has nothing to offer her, so why should she ever return?

>>527302990
>>527356431
I started BG3 just to hear more Maelle and cope

Post your favorite Hair+Costume combination

>>527390469
Messy Bun/Pure
Baguette/Real Maelle

>>527392285
Verso, Renoir's Suit and Real Renoir's hair
Maelle, Real outfit and Painted me hair
Sciel, default outfit and Rebellious hair
Lune, Default outfit and default hair
Monoco, Lumiere suit and black hair

>>527388498
The only person who's done anything unforgivable in the story is Aline for creating this impossible hostage situation that is doomed to force several of a dozen choices of tragedy. Verso filled his world with whimsical creatures who would be satisfied forever fighting/debating eachother, because that's the only kind of life any sane person would condemn to canvas existence.

The city Aline painted, and its people, do not live in a world that was meant for them. When Aline/Alicia die, there will be no painter interested in taking care of them, and the world will decay into nightmare for entirely nonmagical reasons (plus in all likelihood many magical ones, the canvas probably doesnt physically last forever with integrity).

And thats putting aside the unwholesomeness of Alicial/Aline's attention while it lasts. Your existence being a matter of whim for a psychological equivalent who is using you all to deal with their neurosis is a horror premise that is doomed to go poorly. I choose Verso's ending because I respect the lives of the painted people, and so don't think they deserve "Maelle" for a god. She's not evil, but she's no where near mature enough, or immortal enough, to take responsibility for this. Staying dead is cleaner and more dignified for everyone involved.

>>527402415
Who is Aline keeping hostage? You mean painted Verso? I will agree that's cruel of her. But it's not comparable to the suffering Verso creates to right that wrong. He betrays and kills his friends and the entire world with the help of Renoir.

And from what I see in the canvas world is that most people live normal lives, with good and bad parts, especially before Renoir came and caused all that "unnatural" suffering. None of the cast seem to think they're better of dead just because their god is imperfect.

Just imagine if it turned out a girl like Alicia was god in our world, would that make you feel like no living sentient being has any worth suddenly? Hell even if you think that I can guarantee that many would disagree and many unwilling would be killed, all animals for example, they don't care what "meaning" their life has to some creator, they just want to live.

I don't think Aline is right or justified, but she's a lot less wrong than Verso and Renoir.

>>527384460
She knows Verso loves to play music because he tells and shows that he does. She even says that when this is all over she wants to see him play in front of an audience and he agrees. And when she takes over, she even says she is willing to let him grow older and die of old age, as a sort of compromise because she recognizes he hates living forever.

People underestimate how much of Verso's motivation is tied to him being depressed, hating himself, and thinking he isn't real. Like Verso got an ending where he and everyone else DON'T die and he's sad about it. He is mentally ill and his reactions shouldn't be taken as gospel. He makes fair points and he has good intentions but recognize in the end what he values is his own death and the real Dessendre family over every other person he knows, including his childhood friends who love him dearly.

>>527404590
>>527404590
She's made hostages of the whole human society that exists in the canvas. Theyre called "her creations" and creating them with what chroma she still controls is how she is losing chroma to the Nevrons when they kill. She gives them "souls" and without her they presumably at best cant reproduce. We don't know how society worked before the fracture, but given how vaguely they recorded anything about it (unsure of gestrals and other creatures are real) I think its safe to assume their city was painted into existence with false memories, and carefully controlled by Aline to keep it behaving like fake-paris rather than naturally turning into a panicky, alien society due to its alien circumstances.

Resurrecting everyone isnt the end of things, even if Maelle doesn't let herself get ill. If she doesn't tightly control society to not be aware of her/their true nature things could be fine, that's how things were before expedition 0, but Maelle isnt as skilled as Aline, and in any case this doesn't seem sustainable or even much more moral.

If they do know what's up, its going to be chaos. Without the gommage to unite around, lumiere will have just as much internal strife as any society, multiplied by existential terror and an omnipotent citizen-god to appeal to for everything (including the your future child's vibe). Maelle is going to abandon them or die, and they will either die hopelessly or live forever in purgatory.

Even with godlike power it's hard to conceptualize a permanent utopia for trapped humans, and he has to worry that that utopia would just be the perfect bait to lure Aline/Alicia back into trying to make it about them again to their own destruction. So he can either spare the canvas and let Aline/Alicia continue an endeavor he is reasonably certain will still end badly, or allow Aline's crime to reach its natural conclusion and not prolong things.

>>527302990
you should probably read something. dunno if it's a hot take but I think E33 is a far better story than it is an actual game

>>527069327
>>527080397
There is no appeal in the B-cup anon.

>>527414860
I don't see them as her hostage, she does not treat them badly in any way from what I've seen in the game, she does all she can to defend them from Renoir. She also does not have the power to control the humans or the other creatures, if she could she would have stopped the expeditions.

I don't see why Maelle would need to tightly control anything, just pretend to be another person like she seems to be doing in her ending, people will live their lives.

>>527421492
>>527414860
Yes, calling them hostages would imply that she is in some way restricting them. All we see is that she brought dead people back to life.

I just started Act III and realized that I’ve misunderstood Foretell the entire game. I thought Foretell was the same thing as the sun and moon charges. But apparently it’s something totally different. Not that it’s a big deal because Sciel is a benchwarmer anyways.

>>527428762
>Sciel is a benchwarmer anyways.
>Not doing the 2sluts1dog strat with Momo Sciel and Lune

https://youtu.be/4N1Qgac8NSQ?si=v_lxQDzQJRyKNhM4

Can I beat the Frost Eveqye at level 33? I was thinking of beating it before Morocco Station.

>>527428762
Sciel is a bench warmer for me as well.

>>527441162
Can I beat the Frost Eveqye at level 33? I was thinking of beating it before Monoco Station.

>>527441519
You can beat anything you can fight since you can dodge all damage, but it's not really intended to be fought that early.

>>527442189
How do I get verso's free aim to do lightning damage?

>>527442637
It's based on the weapon damage, so equip a lightning weapon.

>>527442752
So trebuchim counts?

All souls are a projection of their creator.
In that sense Gustave, Lune etc. are all different versions of Aline.

When Maelle was working as a courier in Lumière, she had a fling with a young Lumerian boy.
Basically, she french kissed her mother.

>>527443560
That's not a Verso weapon, it would give Lune lightning damage.

>>527443697
Yes just making sure but thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmwM724yGjQ

Maelle-sama?!! You've come back to the painting?!! After I tried for ONE-HUNDRED YEARS to try and save our mother from KILLING HERSELF in a FICTITIOUS REALITY that she TRAPPED herself in because she couldn't HANDLE the fact I BURNED TO DEATH saving your life?!? Huh?!? You're decided to keep the TROLLEY going FULL STEAM AHEAD?!? Instead of MERCIFULLY letting this ABOMINATION die where a bunch of power-tripping RETARDS played GOD with human lives in PETTY FAMILY DRAMA, you're going to TRAP and BETRAY the last vestige of both me and your REAL LIFE BROTHER, who DIED saved you from an AGONIZING DEATH out of his LOVE, in a DEMIURGICAL HELLSCAPE?!?! And to add INSULT to INJURY you're going to make me watch Alicia, Clea and Renoir DIE HORRIBLY without even getting a chance to say goodbye, and you're not EVEN GOING TO BRING THEM BACK??! You want TWO brothers and my personal happiness would GET IN THE WAY OF THAT?!?! And to make sure I'm REALLY fucked over, you're not even going to bring Julie, whom I loved and am haunted in my NIGHTMARES for harming, BACK to life?!!? You're going to let her stay DEAD?!?!?! You don't care about my feelings in ANY CAPACITY, despite EVERYTHING BOTH Versos have done for YOU?!?! I will be SUBJECTED to a fate WORSE THAN DEATH?!? And THEN in the REAL WORLD people will argue that your ending is the UTILITARIAN ending despite the struggle for LUMIERE causing more HUMAN SUFFERING than the FORGES OF HELL?!? I Well what can I say but YABBBA DABBA DOOOOO! WHERE'S THAT PIANO?!!?

>>527446303
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9wxqvOhcSs

>>526770178
fucking jailbait
there are not even any proper r34s yet

>>527379610
>That can't be something she wants. It feels so wicked and out of character for her.
Like other anons have alluded to already, she's revealed to be a really morally suspect person as the game goes on if you pay attention. Maybe "morally" suspect is not exactly it, but she's clearly got character flaws that present her almost borderline psychopathic, especially going into act 3. I would argue we get pretty clear indications early on even with the crazy eyes when she's thinking about revenge for Gustav, it's just that at the time those moments seem somewhat reasonable responses from an immature person still hot from the recent trauma. Except those tendencies don't really go away. In hindsight it should be somewhat of a red flag that she never once seems to ponder Verso's perspective when she shows explicit and overt murderous instinct towards Painted Renoir. Up until the very end. Say what you want about Painted Renoir, but it becomes pretty clear pretty fast after the initial shock that he's not a moustache twirler at all, and by the end it becomes kind of weird how Maelle is still completely dead set on eliminating Painted Renoir even in fron of Verso when it's abundantly clear that regardless of what Verso's position is, he nonetheless still harbors feelings and a deep and complex history with this being.

This is even more flagrantly displayed after the whole reveal when she erases Painted Alicia. Even at the time when I first saw that before I was aware of her ending I felt like that was pretty fucking psycopathic. It's not that I don't understand that intellectually one can determine that Painted Alicia's desire to cease to exist are empathetic, but Maelle is for all intents and purposes performing euthanasia, and she seems pretty fucking ambivalent about the whole thing, to be honest. She just terminated a living being in cold blood and doesn't really seem affected by it, and what's worse she doesn't even seem to consider Verso.

(cont.)

>>527379610
>>527449371
(cont.)

To be clear, I don't think she's necessarily a bad person, but she seems at least somewhat recklessly detached, especially in act 3 after she gets her memories back. She gets this vibe that feels like she believes she's now inherently superior to any existence in this painted world and thus she doesn't really seem to be concerned about anyone or anything in it apart from their usefulness or value to her, personally.

Again, I don't think she does any of this out of malice. She's just a kid, at the end of the day, but in retrospect, knowing the whole story, she does come across as a pretty.... red flag-ish? I'm not gonna lie, on subsequent playthroughs, I can't help but feel very differently about her than I did when I first played the game. I initially saw her has a pretty heroic and lovable character, probably in large part because of how charismatic and charming her performance is and because of protagonist bias I guess, but having gone through the whole thing multiple times and thinking about it a lot I just can't look at her in that light anymore.

If you haven't already I would challenge you to play through the game again looking specifically for her scenes in the context of knowing what she becomes. I think you'll find her someone not nearly as easy to root for.

>>527382501
>>527384460

Yeah, actually, I agree with all this. Verso isn't necessarily suicidal... he's been beaten down, is on life support and wants to pull the plug. But Maelle doesn't make that distinction. She thinks it's her job to save him, even if he protests. And she has the power to do it. At least, that's what she believes.

It actually feels more like a discussion about suicide (Maelle's PoV) vs. euthanasia (Verso's PoV).

Maelle thinks she's prevented a suicide. Verso feels like he's forcibly hooked up to life support like Terri Schiavo.

And hell, maybe Maelle is right? Maybe Verso could be saved? I think they should have made that more ambiguous. Just like how Alicia COULD live a better live in the real world and learn to overcome what she lost in the fire. Verso COULD learn to love his life again in the canvas as well.

But then again, "everyone is a hypocrite," so it's unlikely they'd ever find a compromise.

Ultimately, I think the tone of that final scene with Verso, the piano, and the jumpscare into Maelle's fucked up face just really gave a lot of people the impression that this was some kind of horror torture scenario in which Maelle was the mastermind. So really, I think it was a failure of that scene to communicate what the writer intended.

At least the Verso ending was 10/10. Even of Lune, Sciel, and the others were basically betrayed, murdered, and wiped from existence against their will.

>>527449371
>>527450709
I'm replaying the game and I feel disgust towards Verso more than anything else, manipulating the group knowing they'll kill themselves and everyone they love just so he gets to die.

We'll see if I see Alicia differently at the end, I'm just at the axons. But Renoir and Verso mass murdering people is not making me cheer for them.

Why is dodging in this game is so hard? How do I get better at this?

>>527453979
I definitely did not experience her ending like that, yeah Verso is sad, but everyone else looked happy, well Maelle was melancholic in that moment but not completely broken or anything, it was a somber moment. I don't see why all of them can't find happiness.

In Versos ending I see nothing but pain for Maelle, and the canvas world has been destroyed and everyone in it murdered. Her family is miserable. She'll probably end her life or hide in a canvas.

>>527449371
>Say what you want about Painted Renoir, but it becomes pretty clear pretty fast after the initial shock that he's not a moustache twirler at all
Does that even matter when the guy is the direct responsible for the death of dozens of fellow expeditioners and her brother? Verso never tried to paint Renoir as some incomprehensible guy, either. Didn't read the rest of your arguments, but this is a pretty awful one. Anyone in her position would be dead set in kill him, regardless of his kinship to one of your colleagues.

>>527454389
Some attacks are easier to dodge just by sound.

>>527450709
>she seems at least somewhat recklessly detached,
>She gets this vibe that feels like she believes she's now inherently superior to any existence in this painted world and thus she doesn't really seem to be concerned about anyone or anything in it apart from their usefulness or value to her, personally.

Yeah, I got this vibe too. She's probably thinking "There's no need to consult Verso about this decision because I already know I'm right." It probably seemed to obvious to her. "P-Alicia is asking for death. I have the power to give it to her. The choice is obvious," etc.

I can't remember the scene, but Verso even calls her out on it... I think it was when she's apologizing to him after erasing Alicia. He says something like "You painters just play with peoples' lives without thinking" or something like that.

Although I don't think it's unrelatable that she wants to kill P-Renoir so badly. The dude fuckin massacred the expedition and ruthlessly killed the one person in her life that mattered the most. I think anyone would be out for blood at that point. And Verso didn't exactly dissuade her either. He never made any attempt to say "Hey he's an asshole but he's also my dad." If anything, Verso knew their mission would result in P-Renoir's death, and he was accepting of that, even if he didn't like it.

Although once Maelle regains her memories and stops being the underdog/victim, then yes, it's fair to judge her differently.

>>527441243
>>527428762
She has some of the best utility skills with Fortune's Fury and Intervention. She's even the queen of buffs/debuffs with Doom and All Set.

Also, End Slice is one of the hardest hitting abilities in the game if you're in a prolonged fight.

>>527433665
>2 seconds in
>ALLRIGHTITSGONNABEAVERYLONGVIDEO
I'll pass

>>527454389
Practice by parrying. If you master parrying, you'll be able to perfect dodge anything.

>>527455157
Versos entire plan is to kill everyone though? And not just that he's misleading his "friends" to do it for him, I find him reprehensible.

>>527456131
Not him but
I don't think we can really tell what his plan is. He does nothing but lie. He hides the truth with lies. I think the only things we can be sure of is PAlicia's gommaging was a turning point, and nothing he says is actually fully truthful.
And yes his entire character is why I can't justify his ending, because that effectively rewards everything he did.

>>527454671
>>527455157
>Although I don't think it's unrelatable that she wants to kill P-Renoir so badly. The dude fuckin massacred the expedition and ruthlessly killed the one person in her life that mattered the most. I think anyone would be out for blood at that point. And Verso didn't exactly dissuade her either. He never made any attempt to say "Hey he's an asshole but he's also my dad." If anything, Verso knew their mission would result in P-Renoir's death, and he was accepting of that, even if he didn't like it.

I think I was misunderstood. I'm not arguing that she's wrong for wanting revenge or even for wanting to kill Renoir. My point is that she never ever seems to consider Verso or even Renoir for that matter. I t would be one thing if Renoir was always shown to be a completely impenetrable malignant force beyond reason, but he's clearly not and even all his interactions with Verso, while Verso does seem determined to oppose him even if it means his death, it's obviously clear that he doesn't "hate" him in the way you'd hate a villain. It's a familial type of hostility. You can tell those two have a ton of history and not all of it negative. My issue is she never once stops to consider if Renoir is the monster she thinks he is or, more importantly, how killing him would affect Verso. I mean, consider that the whole reason, or at least the main reason she wants to kill him so badly is because a "stranger" came in and killed her father (figure) in front of her. How can she not at least think of how it would feel for Verso to experience the same thing, even if it's in the context where he's helping you do it.

Consider the scene during their final showdown in the monolith. Verso has his final argument with Painted Renoir, which once again, clearly paint a picture of a complex relationship at the very least, and ends with Verso saying "we only need to incapacitate him" and Maelle without skipping a single beat replying "I'll find a way to KILL him".

>>527456895
I think Renoir being a mass murderer is a pretty good reason to not pick Versos ending as well, he should not be rewarded for all the evil he has done. But yeah, Verso is a lying snake.

>>527454671
>>527455157
>>527456954
She seems completely oblivious of Verso's perspective. Did/would she even consider that maybe Verso's goal to DEFEAT Renoir is not necessarily the same as Maelle's to KILL him? Would she consider the reason he said that is because he kind of doesn't want to kill him, just to defeat him?

And you can argue that yes she's a kid and in the heat of the moment she may have just said that with no thought, which is fair, but this is a repeated pattern. Literally every single one of Verso's family is erased BY HER in FRONT OF HIM, and not once did she even glance at thim for approval or in consideration or anything. Honestly, if you take a step back it kinda makes Verso look like a clown and this girl is just doing whatever the fuck she wants with 0 respect for him a conscious being.

>>527454506
>In Versos ending I see nothing but pain for Maelle

This was also the most brutal part of that ending, other than Lune's stare. Alicia is just standing there holding Esquie as she watches the last memory of her friends vanish. And the fact that she's holding the Esquie plushy, like she's just desperate for a hug or for some kind of warmth from a friend after everything that just happened. Fuck, that was just tragic.

But I think it's important to remember that Verso's last words to her are, "You'll be okay... you have this incredible ability to paint." He's telling her that she'll have to create a brand new "life to love" as the title of the epilogue implies.

It's a daunting task, and it's not fair. But it is possible. And the pain she's feeling now CAN be overcome. She has the ability to do it. And really, that's what Renoir and Aline should have been doing from the get-go - together, as a family. Recovering from grief is hard work, but you have to try.

>>527457693
The ending rewarding the mass murderers is just too disgusting for me, I'm shocked it's the more popular ending.

>>527457235
I don't think it's fair to judge real Renoir as a one dimensional evil character. Obviously in a vacuum, unilaterally deciding to terminate a whole realm of existence with conscious being in it that have no recourse is morally reprehensible, but I think it's unfair to describe his perspective only focusing on that part.

From his perspective he believes it's a choice between this world and the lives of his wife and daughter, and this motherfucker spent over 60 years trapped in this place going through hell to save them. I don't necessarily agree with his decision in the end, but I respect his point of view. He's not simply an evil guy, and in many ways he's far more rational than Maelle, who even though is trying to save this world, she's not really doing it for the right reasons, she's only doing it because it's ultimately what's more convenient for her.

>>527457391
>Literally every single one of Verso's family is erased BY HER in FRONT OF HIM
So just like he did during their first encounter? Because his omission in not saving Gustave isn't that different from pRenoir killing him, even more so considering it was extremely beneficial for Verso. I know Maelle didn't know that until very late, but Verso don't have the right to ask anything from her in that regard.

>>527457928
I understand his reasoning, but I think it's an evil way of reasoning. He's willing to murder countless beings just to force his wife to come home. That's what it comes down to.

>>527458121
What are we arguing? Because you seem to be arguing this is a competition about who is the better character, while I'm not. I'm just arguing Maelle is a pretty flawed character. I never said any other character isn't. They all are in their own ways.

>>527457928
>she's only doing it because it's ultimately what's more convenient for her
Yeah, nah. She loves her friends and is definitely doing for them, too. Summarizing her ending as just some kind of playground for her is downright offensive.

>>527458409
As a Maelle supporter I'm fully aboard that she's not perfect, but she's faar morally superior to Verso and both Renoirs.

>>527458539
Agreed, and her friends look happy in the end.

>>527458409
I am arguing that she doesn't need to be considerate of Verso's feelings about this matter because Verso never showed the same sympathy when he could. They are exactly the same.

>>527458147
>just to force his wife to come home
But this is my problem with how this pov tends to be described. You're saying "just to make his wife come home" and it sort makes it seem like it was a triviality. From his pov -- and we have no reason to believe he's wrong in his assessment -- it's either that world or his wife (and then his daughter) dying. Not "just them coming home". It's a bit silly because you don't need to strip away the merits of is pov to still disagree, because the price he's willing to pay is big enough that you can still think he's in the wrong. Personally, I still think he is in the wrong, but I also see where he's coming from and I can't say for sure were it not me in his position and I had to choose between a whole realm and the people I love I wouldn't do the same. It's easy for me to sit here and say I wouldn't or I'd find a better way, but really I can't say for sure what I'd do in a situation like that.

All of you discussing the merits of Maelle's ending when I'm here thinking Renoir had the right idea that it isn't acceptable, moral or sustainable to paint sentient humans into a virtual world because you're mindbroken, or to continue to allow this demiurgical event to monitored and altered by women with the mental stability of children.

>>527457917
It's really hard for me to grasp. I love that ending, but the casual genocide of Lumiere and everyone else is still jarring.

Although that's probably how the family felt when Verso died in the fire. Pointless, cruel, and with no lesson to be learned. Like the universe has inflicted some great injustice upon you and just gets away with it. If the game wants you to feel the same way as the Dessendre family, then it kind of succeeded. The big question then is how will the player manage their "grief."

>>527458539
Everything about her ending is clear as day that the primary reason she wants to save this world is because that's where she wants to live and stay. She never once makes an argument about the worth of fairness about destroying all these conscious beings and in fact, the only time she even mentions anyone else apart from her or Verso when pleading with her dad is in the context of what they mean to HER, not that they are beings with inherent worth that deserve a life of their own. Also we see the fragment of Verso's soul clearly agreeing that he is tired of the whole thing and wishes to rest and stop painting, and she never even considers him at all. I believe she doesn't even acknowledge his existence at the end. It'd be one thing if she weighted the pros and cons and sort tried to find a solution to keeping this world going while also not keeping Verso's soul perpetually enslaved or whatever, but she doesn't even seem to think of him at all. Because it doesn't matter to her. It's all about her, in the end.

>>527458634
>he's faar morally superior to Verso and both Renoirs.
debatable, but ok.

>>527459071
So just because someone else did something bad, then it's ok for you to then do it too like 3 times? Not to mention that she didn't even know of it until after the fact and when she did she forgave Verso. And also not to mention that regardless of what is "fair", Verso is someone Maelle presumably loves, right? Why would you do something like that to someone you love? For fairness? Payback for them doing the same? I fail to see how that makes her seem less morally grey, honestly.

>>527459520
You're right, but once the beings are created then the genie is out of the bottle. I can't see how you can make an argument that there is no moral significance in just deleting the whole thing.

>>527460232
>primary reason she wants to save this world is because that's where she wants to live and stay
Yes? Doesn't change the fact she's also doing for the people she loves. You can have both, there's nothing wrong with that.

>the only time she even mentions anyone else apart from her or Verso when pleading with her dad is in the context of what they mean to HER
Because that's everything that matters to Renoir. She clearly knows he doesn't give a fuck about her friends, so why bother trying to use their existence as a bargain? She appealed directly to what would make him let her keep those people alive.

>Also we see the fragment of Verso's soul clearly agreeing that he is tired of the whole thing and wishes to rest and stop painting
A fragment of his soul is not his entirety. The real Verso who sacrificed his life for her would definitely understand her wishes.

Verso could've just told Julie the truth, S&R keeps believing the Paintress is good, then Lumierans eventually take down Renoir.

Verso dun goofed

>>527462085
>She clearly knows he doesn't give a fuck about her friends,
she does? We have no reason to believe Renoir has no sympathy for these people. In the contrary, he immediately addresses painted Verso and seems to regard him with the respect of a fully conscious being. Seems to me like she just made that argument because it's just what her line of thinking was.

Also, the way you're saying this makes it seems like she's just being manipulative and making arguments based on what she thinks will work, not the actual arguments she believes are righteous, which doesn't seem to paint a great picture of her either.

>agment of his soul is not his entirety. The real Verso who sacrificed his life for her would definitely understand her wishes.
This is irrelevant to the fact that as far as we can tell, her wish requires this fragment to perpetually paint to keep this world alive, and that he clearly seems to be exhausted and just wants to rest. Again, I'm not saying there isn't an argument you can make that somehow his enslavement is acceptable but 1. she never even seems to consider him AT ALL. I mean she sees the whole exchange between painted Verso and the fragment and never even seems to acknowledge the fragment, and 2. if there were and argument to be made, as far as I see it, it would be an argument about the worth of the conscious lives that exist in this universe that would be terminated if he stopped painting, NOT about granting Maelle's wish. I cannot see a morally sound argument you can make that it's at all fair to enslave an even semi-conscious entity just for making a person feel better about her life.

>>527459520
I was thinking the same thing. Although Renoir always frames his statements in the context of the painter's wellbeing, he inadvertently makes an argument regarding the wellbeing of the painted beings who live in the canvas.

Basically, the only way to avoid dooming all these painted people is to either leave them the fuck alone.

Or even better, just don't create new life in the first place.

Remember when Sophie said she didn't want to have kids:

>I'm not selfish enough to bring others into our doomed world. I know we are not many to think like this right now... and it destroyed the relationship with the one I loved the most.

Renoir probably considers painting new life just as dangerous, irresponsible, and cruel as having children in a doomed Lumiere.

He must believe that these canvas worlds are unsustainable, and that the painters, as flawed gods, will only bring suffering to these people.

I just wish there was at least ONE line in the game from Renoir that confirms this is what he thinks, because it's such a great parallel with the beginning of the game.

>>527462442
... but why would Verso do that?

>>527463190
I don't really have an argument against this. This is something where it boils down to the most fundamentals assumptions you hold. Personally, I believe existence is good, and life is good. So in the end I do tend to be at least viscerally skeptical of the statements like "Or even better, just don't create new life in the first place.", and for the record I also believe Sophie is wrong -- or I guess I should say I disagree with her -- about her decision not to have kids because she doesn't want to bring life into a "doomed world". To keep it game terms I guess I agree with Esquie that "losing a rock is better than never having a rock"

>>527463251
To live a happy life with Julie like he initially wanted to

>>527463043
>We have no reason to believe Renoir has no sympathy for these people.
How about the fact he gommaged every single soul from that place in the first opportunity he was free from the stalemate with Aline? He was already settled on destroying the world in order to make his wife unable to go back.

>and making arguments based on what she thinks will work
Yeah, that's usually what desperate people do. She needed to make her father letting her be free and not destroy the Canvas. There was no reason to waste time trying to tickle his non-existent sympathy for the gang.

>I cannot see a morally sound argument you can make that it's at all fair to enslave an even semi-conscious entity just for making a person feel better about her life.
You're, once again, reducing her reason to keep the world alive just to be a playground for her, when you know it's not true. If that's all she wanted, she could just accept to get out and then fuck around with her power in another Canvas. She was doing for her AND for them. The fragment's sacrifice was for a greater good. She should have at least addressed it? Yeah, sure, but her decision about keeping it painting wasn't malicious or wrong considering the greater good. I could make an analogy about rape, abortion and responsibility, but I not sure I want to enter within this territory just to fully explain my point.

>>527464137
"Life keeps forcing cruel choices" as Renoir says.

I would have loved a line from him where he looks at Lune and Sciel and basically admits, "It was irresponsible of us to create you." Lune probably would've kicked him in the dick.

>>527465404
>How about the fact he gommaged every single soul from that place in the first opportunity he was free from the stalemate with Aline?
Just because he wanted to erase all those people doesn't mean he had no sympathy for any of them. Just like Maelle defying her dad doesn't mean she has no sympathy for him. This is a basic concept to understand. Renoir clearly shows sympathy for Verso when addressing him. He could've just ignored him or simply erased him with no words or whatever, but he seems to care enough to at least verbally show sympathy towards his situation.

>Yeah, that's usually what desperate people do.
this says a lot more about you than about "people". I usually don't make a habit of making manipulative arguments for the sake of reaching my ends. But this is irrelevant either way.

> reducing her reason to keep the world alive just to be a playground for her, when you know it's not true.
But it is. Her primary reason is clearly so she doesn't have to give up this universe she wants to live in. Let me go about this another way. I invite you to point out a single time during act 3 where she EVER seems at all concerned about the perspectives or lives of anyone inside the painting that is UNRELATED to her, personally. Does she ever make an argument or voice an idea or opinion for why erasing the painting is wrong aside from her desire to live there?

> I could make an analogy about rape, abortion and responsibility
I suspect I would probably agree with your argument there, if I'm right in my suspicions of what your argument would be. My point is and was never that it's right to erase the painted world or wrong to try and maintain it. My argument is that whatever you believe about the righteousness of trying to keep the world alive, Maelle is clearly doing it for the wrong reasons, which is what matters in this context, because we're arguing about Maelle as a character.

>>527463190
>>527460473
Is this just Woman Moment: the game?

>>527467510
Well, yeah, kinda. But it's a very interesting and artistically accomplished rendition of a woman moment.

>I'm right here, Peggy.
>I know, Hank... I know you're here.

>>527475576
So is Dale trash bin guy?

>>527475965
Yes

If Maelle wasn't hot she wouldn't have a single supporter.

>>527478834
Nobody supports maelle though. They support either the lumiere position, the anti-verso position or the anti-painter position.
All three of these are just also nominally anti-verso and anti-painter.

>>527478834
Imagine her burnt squeals

>>527463190
When you put it like that, it makes one realize that Renoir is an anti-(painted)natalist

>>527454052
So you choose the expeditioners over your mother?

>Choose Verso's ending
>Wow that was depressing as fuck
>Go look at the Maelle ending expecting a happier ending
>...
>My instincts were correct

Can someone provide me with the post-game content check list? Missable locations/ Overworld bosses/ Things you need to return to with flying?

Maelle and Aline putting humans in yhe canvas is like me putting fish in a fish tank that only receives oxygen when I blow into it with a straw.

>>527486884
https://mapgenie.io/clair-obscur-expedition-33/maps/the-continent

>>527459094
Yeah she will die eventually, but she knows that, she's free to make that choice herself.

>>527459520
That woman with the mental stability of a child did a fine job in the canvas before Renoir showed up and started murdering everyone though? People seemed to have fond memories of the times before he showed up and destroyed the world, even Verso.

>>527485192
I thought Maelles ending was pretty happy, Verso being a bit sad didn't really bother me, since the other option is the end of the entire world, seeing Lune, Sciel and all the other people happy is nice.

>>527489698
The canvas is unsuitable for human life. It is literally powered on hell-like misery of a fragment of Verso. It can not be sustained without a painter essentially holding the world together, a painter that dies in the process of doing so. Painters are playing God with sentient humans like a shitty isekai protagonist running around screwing up his pocket universe forcing them to endure in a dying world on par with Dark Souls. The greatest sin is not killing them, it's putting them there in the first place.

From a non "muh fanily" angle that Verso's ending is better at, you might consider Maelle's ending better due to the people of Lumiere getting more time, but I can't even think of it that way either

Maelle is just once again reviving everyone and re-causing the dilemma when everyone was dead. Verso and Renoir tried to force them past their grief, which is the root cause of all of this, to prevent perpetuating these disasters.

I never thought I would unironically think a genocide ending was better.

>>527491276
I think the fragment of Verso is sad because Renoir is destroying everything and causing suffering. Everything points towards him being happy in the times before.

I disagree that it's wrong to create them, they seem to be happy with their existance, fighting like maniacs to preserve it.

>>527491276
Unironically I think there were original drafts of the story where the lumina converter played a larger role and may have even been involved in solving these dillemmas. It's a magic device that permits them to control the building blocks and metaphysical foundations of their reality, to reshape them to their benefit. It's important enough to explain what it is and what it does to the player. Then after act1 it's never brought up again. Too much attention gets put on it to just be an explanation of how pictos work to the point that it's specifically shown in dramatic slow motion that gustave's arm falls off, and then it's dropped like nothing. It was too broken a device and potentially solved both endings.

>>527491547
People really need to stop looking at Verso as being a reliable source of information for his own feelings. He is severely depressed and he cannot imagine himself being happy before or again, and he thinks everyone either dislikes him or wants to be someone he's not.

>You miss old Verso and wish you had him back over me, don't you?
>"I like you and old Verso. You are similar but different, and I like you for who YOU are."
>You never talk about old Verso because you think of me as his replacement.
>"No, I don't do it because it makes you sad."

>>527495936
From the moment I learned about his axon I viewed eveything he said as at minimum half truths. It's mind boggling just how many people take him at his word for anything.

>>527479260
beautiful and charming

aaaaa why wont you die!?

>>527467510
>Woman Moment
I don't get it please explain the joke

>>527504389
I believe he's just a misogynist, there's no joke, well except his personality.

>>527502868
>get victory screen
>die in the cutscene
really makes you think

>>527491547
>>527495936
>>527496090
Whatever you think of painted Verso's reliability as a source, the point here is the fact that the fragment of real Verso's soul is clearly in a morally questionable position. The game makes it explicit that the fragment is in a predicament akin to slavery and that he is no longer content with this situation and wishes to stop and finally rest.

Whatever argument you wish to make that it's just because X and he would be happy if Y is just copium because it doesn't align with your view of a happy ending. At the end of the day, everyone that once made that version of Verso happy and nostalgic of a better time is gone. Clea has outgrown that version of him and his canvas, for his mother and father that has become a symbol of great pain and grief, same could be said for Alicia. The fragment, however, is almost literally frozen and stuck in the past. Unable to ever move past a bygone moment in time because he can't because his soul is literally gone for the most part. All he is is an echo of a slice of time of a previous life.

Which is not to say all this justifies erasing a whole universe with countless sentient life in it, there's definitely a moral dilemma there, but to handwave the fragment's predicament away as not what it is is pure wishful thinking and there's no reason to believe that's the case.

>>526887387
>>526885785
The drawn from Verso's Canvas is that they have a fragment of Verso's soul in there. So the painted Verso is as close as one can get to the real Verso only in there.
If they paint another 'simulated family' in other Canvas, it would be a Verso colored by their perspectives, not the real thing. Like, Renoir's Verso is a fucking Axion.

>>527504389
It's a misogynist joke.
A lot of times in fiction women do something absolutely fucking insane that prefaces and is the primary driving force behind the entire story.
>Marika smashing the Elden Ring
>Aline making sentients humans in her Game Boy Advanced with a battery life of 50%

>>527485192
I wouldn't say it's happy since Maelle is going to die, but it's worth it to see Verso suffer as a pianocuck.

>>527516669
Aline is the personification of an everlasting woman moment. If there was any justice in this game, we'd be allowed to brutally torture her to death.

>>527517473
I don't know, I'm not completely sure what to think of the whole thing. She definitely did everything for the worst reasons, but isn't it a good thing that there is more life than previously? I get the argument that she brought them into a flawed world that is doomed to eventually collapse and may be unsustainable, but couldn't the same be said for our own? Everything the births is destined to die and as far as we know, the universe itself is a winding clock too, just with a much longer fuse. Would you also argue that our existence is also a mistake or a "bad" thing? Because I don't think I would. Even if it turns out that this universe was created by some sort of entity that wasn't particularly invested or did it for "the wrong reasons", I still think that ultimately existence is a good thing, and I can't see why I shouldn't apply the same logic to the painted world in that case.

>>527510182
Is his real soul clearly in a questionable position? He looks sad right now, probably because Renoir has been causing havoc and killing and destroying everything no?

If we're to make assumptions I would assume he will get better, most conscious people heal over time, why would he be sad and depressed for all time when things go back to being better? Maelle can visit and they can create things together etc.

>>527517151
Everyone dies eventually though, she might shorten her life a bit? But a bit shorter life in health and with friends rather than maybe a longer life as a cripple with a shit family...

Verso does deserve some pain for sure, but I don't see why he can't have some happy moments as well. Depression isn't permanent for most people.

>>527518479
Not the same poster but I think Aline let her family down in a pretty awful way hiding away in the canvas. It's also cruel how she painted Alicia. But other than that she's not awful I think? Renoir is far worse, so is painted Verso.

>>527518817
>If we're to make assumptions
but that's all you're doing. Assuming. You clearly want that to be the case but you have no reason to believe that. That entity has been trapped in that limbo world working to keep the whole thing alive for the equivalent of a century with no respite. It's no longer a full person either. It's merely a fragment of the person that once was. There's no real future for it because it's not an actual person. It's a fragment stuck in a moment in time that is not coming back anymore. Also, my understanding and yours seems to be different of what is actual position is. It seems to me like he's not an active participant in the world, he's merely the engine. It's not like he gets to live freely inside the painted world like Aline or Maelle, he seems to be more like the power source that keeps the lights on so to speak. In any case, all I'm saying is you are choosing to believe something that the game gives no reason for you to believe and in fact implies the complete opposite.

>>527519368
But you're assuming he won't get better, that he's forever broken and sad. You're assuming a ton about its mental state.

All I'm saying is that if we are to assume forever broken or eventually healing then experience dictates he will heal. That's what happens to conscious creatures given better circumstances. they start healing.

>>527519127
Oh I'm not arguing Aline is a good agent in this scenario. I don't think anyone is a purely good agent in this, which is part of what makes the whole thing so complex and interesting. All I'm saying is you can have good things come out of bad intentions. In this case, she may have created all these people for pretty dubious reasons, but one can still think it's ultimately a good thing that they were created, regardless of the motives. I think so at least.

>>527519771
Agreed. The people and creatures in the canvas seem to live as fulfulling lives as anything outside of it.

>>527519679
>That's what happens to conscious creatures given better circumstances. they start healing.
But you're both assuming that we're talking about both a complete conscious being and that his situation can improve, which I don't think either is the case. What exactly is the path for the fragment? He can't grow. He can't really fundamentally change because he's just a piece of a person stuck as a perpetual child. And his situation isn't really getting any better either. He's still condemned to perpetually keep the whole thing going in the limbo realm as far as I see it and we're given no information of ways to change this from the game.

You are assuming a lot more than I am. Is it possible that there's a way to give the fragment some kind of existence where it would want to keep existing? Maybe, I don't know. What I do know is that he tells us explicitly that he no longer wishes to keep his post and everything we see from his predicament gives us no reason to believe there was a better future for him. Everything else is copium.

>>527520241
Why do you think it's sad? Do you think it was always sad? I think it's reasonable to assume it's sad because his sister and father is murdering his creations and destroying his world. When that ends and his sister will help him rebuild it I don't see why that can bring happiness. His mother should also care about him right? Now she's not busy fighting a war.

>>527518927
It's stated that she's severely shortening her life which the ending reinforces by showing the paint mask on her. Inside the canvas, it may be a lifetime or maybe more, but outside of the canvas she's likely to be dead within a very short matter of time. DESU what really gets me about that ending is the fact she doesn't bother to repair Lumiere which feels off.
>Verso does deserve some pain for sure, but I don't see why he can't have some happy moments as well. Depression isn't permanent for most people.
Most people don't try to end an entire world as a result of their depression. Now, for what it's worth, Verso has a ring on his left ring finger in Maelle's ending, which if we take the lyrics of the game's main theme that puts him and Lune together, we can reasonably conclude that he's banging her in that ending. That said, fuck him for being a manipulative, pathological liar. Back to the piano mines.

>>527519679
Personally, IDGAF if Verso's sad or not. He deserves to be punished for his actions. "Oh, he was depressed, let's forgive him trying to end our world."

>>527520775
>>527519679
BTW, I might have gotten mixed up on responses. I'm talking about pVerso, not Verso's soul fragment.

>>527520495
>I think it's reasonable to assume it's sad because his sister and father is murdering his creations and destroying his world. When that ends and his sister will help him rebuild it I don't see why that can bring happiness.
But why do you think this is the case? There's nothing in the game that would support any of this. This seems like a complete assumption fabricated out of nothing. All painted Verso asks is if he's tired of painting and if he wants to rest and he nods. There's no mention that this has anything to do with anything that's going on inside the canvas.

And I cannot see what your vision is for him to have a good life. How do you relieve him of his duties of keeping that canvas going? Because I don't know of any that the game provides. And even if you could, what would then be the path for him to have a better life? He's an incomplete frozen piece of a person. His parents are no longer the parents he knew, they are Aline and Renoir post the death of the person the fragment once belonged to. Clea and Alicia are grown and no longer the sisters that kid had. See, all these people are ALIVE. They will grow and evolve and eventually age out of and into different phases of their lives and, eventually, die. The fragment cannot do any of these things. It's stuck. It's a photograph, destined to be left behind as everything around it progresses. There's no future for something like this.

>>527520953
Oh nevermind then. Painted Verso is a completely different matter. My view is that if he wishes to stop being immortal and die, I completely understand. Motherfucker basically lived long enough to see every single person he ever loved or associated with die, including every single one of his family members. Could he get "better"? Eh, maybe. I wouldn't try to second guess a man person who's lived and lost more than most people in all history about his willingness to keep going, but if if you're a loved on I understand wanting to try.

I still think Maelle is doing it more for selfish reason that she just doesn't want to lose him rather than because she wants what's best for him, but yeah, that's a different matter.

>>527519127
Her sperging out and dealing with trauma in her own way is the most understandable thing she did, what isn't understandable is why she created a million sentient people in a decaying painting to be tortured.

>>527521367
I base it on you basic knowledge of how feelings work? It's reasonable to be sad for that reason, it's reasonable to start feeling better if you take away those reasons that cause sadness.

If the soul fragment is just doomed to be depressed like it sounds like in how you see it, then it is what it is? Like it was always going to be sad...

And in the end even if it's sad, tough luck, killing all the people and creatures in the canvas just so save that fragment of a soul some suffering is definitely not an equal trade.

>>527521726
She didn't create them to be tortured? They lived normal lives in a pretty damn cool world.

The ethical issues within the canvas is pretty much the same as it will be if we can ever create real AI.

>>527522891
>It's reasonable to be sad for that reason, it's reasonable to start feeling better if you take away those reasons that cause sadness.
but again you are assuming that based on nothing. No one mentioned anything that's going on inside the painting during that final exchange. All Verso asked was if he was tired and wanted to rest. There's no reason to believe that even if everything is wonderful inside the canvas that he wouldn't still be tired of painting. It's not even about "sadness" he's just exhausted. I imagine if I were bound to a single task for 100 years I'd be pretty fucking done too.

>And in the end even if it's sad, tough luck, killing all the people and creatures in the canvas just so save that fragment of a soul some suffering is definitely not an equal trade.
And that's the dilemma here. There's an argument to be made both ways and I'm not sure myself which is the more morally righteous one, but to act like the fragment's predicament doesn't present a moral problem is what I'm arguing against because it does, and simply handwave it away with assumptions is just copium.

>>527524240
But you're arguing as if it's a given that the fragment will suffer, that sounds strange to me. Every canvas has a fragment of the painters soul that is tortured for eternity?

>>527524741
WE don't know. The game didn't show us enough. I can only speak for what it did show, and the one example we have, there is a fragment of a soul that's clearly in a situation it no longer wants to be in and there's no reason given to believe that it was ever going to get much better if any better at all. I'm assuming very little here. I'm only going by the most direct interpretation of what the game seems to want to tell us about the situation.

Imagine putting fish in a fish tank without live support systems like a heater, water changes and oxygen pumps, and its ability to be populated with those ecological necessities is entirely dependent by my ability to stab myself with a rusty knife every hour on the hour forever without fail.

That's Lumiere.

>>527525065
I assume that the fragment of versos spirit is a creative fragment that enjoys painting, because that makes sense. And it's sad because his creations are being abused and destroyed.

Your assumptions sounds illogical to me, but to each their own.

>>527525065
It also shows us that this fragment consider creation born through Painting as real as the Painters (Flying Manor and another optional zone I don't remember the name).

I find it hard to side with this shithead of a child when we hear from him that he considers the Canvas as a real world but during the last 10 minutes of the game he realized he's tired of painting.
I think this idea should have been introduced earlier in the game.

Why are people using Verso's soul as a gotcha to justify erasing the Canvas?
>oh you see God is le tired of running Earth so that makes destroying it good!
I don't get it.

>>527529424
You actually get a fair bit more info from all the times the fading boy shows up, but we would need a script of the game to easily reference what he says.

>>527532585
Those two things aren't contradictory though. If you told me that the our whole wold would be annihilated by some sort of sadistic alien race unless I could finish counting the number pi, then it's not a matter of whether or not I think it's right or not for me to accept or decline, it becomes a matter of time before I fail because I just can't do it anymore. The fragment has been doing this for at least like 100 years. There's so much a consciousness can take of performing a permanent task. Not to mention that it's not an altogether fair and just outcome to sacrifice the freedom of an innocent person (or entity I guess, since he's not exactly a person) for the good of all. It's pragmatically sound, but morally impure.

>>527533057
Literally no one is doing that.

>>527533305
They're not contradictory in the idea, but they oppose each other in the attachment the player can have towards the soul.
Is it morally impure ? Maybe, it's hard to tell how much of a sentient being this entity is, it's like you tell me that it's morally impure to use a battery to produce energy (not very good analogy but get the gist).
Even then, we could argue that a few are morally impure by knowing the truth to have the rest of the people inhabiting the Canvas living unaware of it. Does that make the people unaware as morally impure as the other ?


I would end by saying one must consider Sisyphus happy but I never bothered to read the original myth to know if Sisyphus actually speak his mind about it.

>>527533451
Not in this thread specifically but I saw some various comments here and there I was just wondering how a faceless boy visage of a piece of a soul being "tired" can sway some people towards the genocide ending, this is the one argument I just don't get

>>526752525
Final boss track
Reminded me of the Airbuster theme

>>526752525
Yeah Alicia is the best track to me as well, but I also love the singing on the Sirene level.

> Come home
> You see this
Anon, what did you do?

>>527534759
Look, I don't even disagree with you on the conclusion in that I would also probably choose to condemn the fragment of Verso's soul for the sake of saving the canvas world. My point is that I don't think it's right to present the consequences for making that decision as non existent, or the constant downplaying of the moral price of doing so.

case in point>>527535214
Why characterize the situation like this? Why dehumanize this being for arbitrary reasons like he "doesn't have a face" or characterize his situation as "he's just tired lol". Whatever is the nature of the fragment as a being, it clearly can communicate and understand language and can clearly understand and express a will. If you want to say it's immoral to erase the canvas because all the entities inside of it seem to have full consciousness and should thus be granted moral value, then you must also grant the same value to the fragment, since it exhibits the same qualities. You can say that if you were in a situation where you got to decide the fate of the fragment and the canvas you would choose to keep the canvas at the expense of the fragment (as I probably would too) but I think it's undeniable that there's a moral tax there in making that decision.

Also, to be clear, that moral tax falls entirely on the shoulders of whoever the person who gets to make and enforce the decision. The beings inside the painting are completely innocent in this. They have neither the knowledge nor the power to enforce such a decision even if they wanted to.

>>527523420
woah bro, what a visionary take

Anyone else regret learning the Stendhal first turn kill?

Kinda ruined the endgame for me.

I'm exhausted reading Verso pickers opinions, it just makes no sense to me. He's a lying snake who tries to murder the entire party and everyone they want to protect, all while charming them to be his friend, absolutely disgusting. Fuck Verso.

>>527536780
>Why characterize the situation like this? Why dehumanize this being for arbitrary reasons like he "doesn't have a face" or characterize his situation as "he's just tired lol".
I wanted to showcase the absurdity of arguing that a being we briefly meet at the very, very end, in a visual form that's not particularly relatable, a being that we don't know much about aside from scraps of information here and there, that has it's state relayed to us by Painted Verso (who's proven to be extremely unreliable) is considered more important to some people that all the characters and beings we bonded and interacted with on our long journey.
>characterize his situation as "he's just tired lol".
But that's exactly how it's presented to us? We're not given the explanation as to what that entails. What does it mean that a remaining, smal piece of Verso's soul is tired? How does that manifest and what does that imply? Why would relieving that fragment of its duty to the Canvas be of importance to us in deciding who to side with?

>>527542937
I bet it looking like a child makes people pick Verso. People will be like "Verso is helping the innocent child!".

It's clear that at the end it's the writers who were "tired" and all they wanted is to shove "le message" down players throat without bothering to even think about whether people in canvas have value or right to life as a sentient being or what not, these questions clearly were not interesting to writers and they wanted to hammer their anti-escapism message at the cost of the world and the characters.

>>527542937
>we briefly meet at the very, very end, in a visual form that's not particularly relatable, a being that we don't know much about aside from scraps of information here and there
What does this matter to the issue? Killing an innocent person is morally wrong whether or not you know them or relate to them at all. What is this argument?

>that has it's state relayed to us by Painted Verso (who's proven to be extremely unreliable)
This is debatable but what is not is that whatever you think of Painted Verso as a source is irrelevant because the information about the state of the fragment comes straight from it. It is the fragemnt itself that confirms that he is indeed not doing what he's doing of his own will and he no longer wishes to continue. Unless you want to argue the fragment itself should not be trusted but in that case you're just mind reading at that point and it seems to me like you're just making up whatever truth aligns with your wishes the best.

> is considered more important to some people that all the characters and beings
Not more, equally. He's a consciousness, and as such deserving of as much respect and consideration as any of the consciousnesses you want to save inside the painting.

>But that's exactly how it's presented to us?
No it isn't. The game is clearly no portraying him as "just being tired", like it's a trivial grievance he can just sleep over. It's clearly a situation where this thing is being compelled against its will to keep working with no respite to keep something alive.


>>527543992
That's obviously not true. Both endings make damn well sure to show you the moral downsides of your choice. The writers were clearly aware of the dilemma they created. They just didn't completely flesh out all the details because that's not what the game is ultimately about. It's about the relationship between the handful of characters and where their perspectives lead them to, not necessarily about what the "correct moral" calculation is.

>>527446628
/dbs/...

>>527545608
>Both endings make damn well sure to show you the moral downsides of your choice.

No. The music, the cinematography painted one ending good and the other bad, doesnt matter what they say. They show hope in Verso's ending, family healing etc. The opposite in Maelle's ending. Both endings want to say "Renoir and Verso was right!".
Like cmon, ghosts happily waving goodbye? How much more hamfisted could it be?

>they make a Gustave lives 'Golden Path' route expansion
>marketing all makes it seem like this is the one happy ending for everyone
>ends up actually being equally bleak as the other two

>>527546378
Did your forget about Sciel and Lune gommaging looking at Verso (and you) with utter disappointment and seething contempt? It's the natural ending for this story, yes, but it's far from a completely happy ending.

>>527546976
verso pickers dont care about npcs being sad.
>>527545608
>Not more, equally. He's a consciousness, and as such deserving of as much respect and consideration as any of the consciousnesses you want to save inside the painting.

If you interpret Verso's fragment this way, this is an argument against making any living canvases at all, because it involves in creating a slave that is stripped of agency and forced to paint for eternity while being constantly awake and aware of being a slave.
Making these canvases and using painters power is just fundamentally unethical and all their canvases should be destroyed and they should be prevented from ever making more.

>>527547356
If you wish to see it that, then that's fine. I feel a lot more conflicted about it, personally. Even if it is the case that there's a sacrifice to be made in creating a whole world full of life, maybe it's worth it. I'm not convinced either way myself. I can see both sides, but my natural inclination tilts me slightly towards "worth it".


>verso pickers dont care about npcs being sad.
I suppose it's easier to discard a different point of view if it's villainous...

>>527546378
I did think it was ridiculous that Aline forgives Renoir in that ending honestly, the man has slaughtered millions of people in his attempt to control her.

>>527542605
Resist the urge to use it. It's fucking broken and the devs are retarded for keeping something like that in the game, even after nerfing it.

The payoff on that ability is just way too high given how easy it is to set up. Other character have to jump through hoops in order to pull off big damage like that, and it feels earned. But Stendahl just fucking flattens the entire gameplay experience.

All of Maelle's damage needs to get nerfed to account for the absolutely gigantic boost that Virtuose stance gives. Or just nerf Virtuose stance down to +100% damage instead.

Playing Maelle is like Sciel for idiots.

I had to play the entire second half of the game with self-imposed challenges. No attribute points, no equipping pictos on big fights, and absolutely no Stendahl.

Same with Maelle's level 3 gradient attack, to a lesser extent.

This is how Verso's ending is presented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAyJqCPoYnM and autists are still believing that they're both ambiguous and they're not sure which ending writers think is the "good" one.

>>527542605
I never used it before Simon, and i only used it on his 3rd phase

>>527550669
Verso's ending is clearly portrayed as the "good" one for this particular story, yes, but not without its own price. I don't understand why it's so difficult to to accept complexity.

>>527550669
Alicia never had her symbolic "putting the hat back on and getting back into the game" moment, though. The ambiguity is in whether she'll ever recover and be able to live her life again, considering the people she's lost as well as her physical impairments from the fire.

Van Helsing just doesn't get to fuck his vampire GF anymore, or whatever. IDK, I haven't thought about that movie in 20 years. I'm kinda surprised it doesn't get mentioned more often.

>>527550669
>and they're not sure which ending writers think is the "good" one.
There is no "good" ending.

>>527510182
His soul fragment isn't even in a questionable position. It's said multiple times that painting makes him happy and he's just tired of the conflict. So PVerso makes choices to ensure the conflict escalates to create the environment for his murder/suicide plan to work.

>>527558095
Even the writers said there is no good ending, but verso pickers need there to be one to cope that they made the right choice.

>>527560036
>Even the writers said there is no good ending
proof?

>>527559812
Copium.

>>527560036
The writers just saying it for PR, they dotn want to put a thumb on the scale. I dont like the ending, but you guys are giga coping if you cant acknowledge how heavy handed they push the message in their endings. In maelle's ending youre supposed to feel bad for picking it and it's framed intentionally as "bad" one. Stop being autistic. Criticise coward hack writers

>>526751517 (OP)
I liked this game but there's too many male party members for my liking.

>>527521686
As far as pVerso goes, what gets me is that he could still be given the ability to age and die normally without having to destroy the entire canvas. We see he's clearly ageing in Maelle's ending, so ending all life in that world just to get his own relief is kind of a dick move.

Of course then we have to get into the whole topic of whether or not he was planning on destroying the canvas during the entirety of Act 3, or if seeing Aline suffer and Maelle lying to Renoir/acting like a crack addict make him decide to go back to his original goal of destroying the canvas? But I'm getting off track with that.

>I still think Maelle is doing it more for selfish reason that she just doesn't want to lose him rather than because she wants what's best for him
100% You really see how Maelle is using pVerso as a substitute for real Verso in his ending when she's saying "Don't leave me again" and in her ending when she calls him "brother". She's basically doing what Aline did, trying to pretend Verso never died, she doesn't even view pVerso as his own person (also why the fuck didn't she fix Luminiere in her ending?).
Ultimately, I find pVerso and Maelle to both be pretty selfish characters that manifests in different ways, though there is the possibility that pVerso was actually concerned for Aline's health and Maelle killing herself in the canvas. I still think he's a cunt though.

>>527549969
Aline creating them in the first place and refusing to leave was fucked up too. She doomed the entire world.

>>527568221
>what gets me is that he could still be given the ability to age and die normally without having to destroy the entire canvas.
I mean sure, but the feeling I get from his ending is that he really just wants relief and to put his mind to rest. I don't think he wants or can even endure another 40+ years of living a sort of fucked up epilogue of a life....

>or if seeing Aline suffer and Maelle lying to Renoir/acting like a crack addict make him decide to go back to his original goal of destroying the canvas?
That's my interpretation. He kinda seems to flip flop as he just kinda goes with Maelle as she kicks off act 3 running from Renoir and he just kinda seems like he doesn't really know what to do, and then in the end it seems like the whole situation just finally gives him the clarity of purpose he needed or something like that.

>also why the fuck didn't she fix Luminiere in her ending?)
That just seems like an artistic choice to me. To differentiate it from real Lumiere and whatnot. I wouldn't think too much about it and I don't think it's important for the story anyway.

> I still think he's a cunt though.
That's where I don't know I agree. I really think he's got the right intentions in the end and I can relate to his instinct in his situation having just fully realized what a clusterfuck of a mess the whole thing is and how Maelle is clearly on the verge of just repeating the same thing again. He may have got the calculation wrong but I think the intent is correct and genuine.

It's kind of interesting in a way because I feel like Verso is trying to do what I believe is the wrong thing (erasing the canvas) for the right reasons, and Maelle is trying to do what I believe is the right thing (preserving the canvas) for the wrong reasons. It's a neat dichotomy, thinking about it now....

>>527549969
She's probably done similar shit considering she's had to get Renoir out of a canvas in the past.
I feel like when you've created hundreds of canvas worlds, you wouldn't be able to view canvas life as having the same importance of life in the real world (if at all), even if you recognize that they're fully sapient.

Seeing some boss fight footage is making me want to drop the $70 for the gam3. My only question is how is the replayability in this? I'm an autist who likes NG+ and post game content with cranked difficulty and unlockable goodies. Does Expedition 33 have any of that?

I'm asking here because asking on /v/ got me a 3 day ban for off topic somehow.

>>527573097
yes

>>527573097
Go back.

>>527570492
>I mean sure, but the feeling I get from his ending is that he really just wants relief and to put his mind to rest. I don't think he wants or can even endure another 40+ years of living a sort of fucked up epilogue of a life....
No doubt he definitely was looking to die, but having the stance of "fuck everyone else on the canvas, I want to die NOW" is at the very least, heavy-handed of him. Also...

>That's my interpretation. He kinda seems to flip flop as he just kinda goes with Maelle as she kicks off act 3 running from Renoir and he just kinda seems like he doesn't really know what to do, and then in the end it seems like the whole situation just finally gives him the clarity of purpose he needed or something like that.
It makes a lot of sense, but I have one hangup about it that ties into the above point: If pVerso was entertaining the idea of preserving the canvas, then why is he suddenly unable to bear being alive for another 40 years or however long he'd live as a mortal when he was seemingly willing to put up with it before? Reconciling that is the biggest hurdle, the easy (and comical) answer would be that he hates Maelle, but I sincerely doubt that's actually the case.

>That just seems like an artistic choice to me. To differentiate it from real Lumiere and whatnot. I wouldn't think too much about it and I don't think it's important for the story anyway.
Crazy, I can't spell Lumiere. But yeah, I think the still-ruined state of it bugging me is just my OCD getting to me, although I know she gets mocked a lot on here for that.

>>527568221
Maelle and Verso treat each other like siblings. Verso is even treating her like a little sister before she got her memories back. Painted Verso is really not that different from the original and Maelle knows that, especially since he has all his memories. I wouldn't say anyone is pretending.

>>527573097
It's not $70, it's $50. Well worth it.

>>527573097
I don't know what those retards are talking about. The game is over once you finish the story. You have a new game plus but there isn't any super hard post game content once you beat the final boss. This isn't the kind of game for replayability. The story is the game.

>>527577045
>there isn't any super hard post game content once you beat the final boss.
???

I just realized that the guy who sang in
Une Vie à Peindre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnfuZg28qYo
Une Vie à T’aimer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEtmFgonY3E

Also did bury the light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvy9km7g6fw

>>527574192
>then why is he suddenly unable to bear being alive for another 40 years or however long he'd live as a mortal when he was seemingly willing to put up with it before?
I think it's really just the culmination of the moments preceding the exchange. I'm also not convinced he was totally on board with preserving the canvas, or at least not at all costs anyway. We never really get a big moment where he confirms that he had a change of heart from act 2 and wanting to put an end to the painted world, I guess he was just caught up in the moment with Maelle now getting her memories back and all that happened as a consequence. My feeling is that there was probably a sequence of events from the start of act3 until the end where Verso would find it in himself to want to fight for the future of the canvas, if not his own, but considering how things turned out it was pretty evident things were just going to stay the same or worse with Maelle rapidly descending into the same mental issues that plagued her mother before her that caused him personally, and the whole world and the Dessendre's so much pain.
I don't really feel like there's anything there to reconcile, to be honest. He's just a human being trapped in a complex situation, like everyone else in that story.

>>527578219
I know it's not a popular opinion, but I honestly am not a huge fan of these tracks. They work as hype themes for a final boss, but they kinda stick out as a little corny in comparison to the otherwise pretty tasteful OST.

I'm a little retarded but let me just get this straight

>Aline was coping in Verso's Canvas playing "House" with a fake family
>Renoir entered the Canvas and started cleaning house to get her to leave, causing the Fracture
>Aline is the Paintress, Renoir is the Curator
>the two fight each other for control of the Canvas, Renoir is gradually getting stronger and Aline can't keep him from erasing things, so she starts counting down on the monolith as a cry for help for her creations in Lumiere, but they interpret this the wrong way
>Aline can only keep her painted family and her newer creations alive, each year she gets less capable of maintaining everything
>pVerso, pRenoir, and pAlicia know that they're fighting a losing battle and will die when the countdown hits 0, but Alicia enters the painting because mom and dad need to stop fighting + oh shit it's nice being able to talk and not be burnt and have two eyes- whoops I lost myself in the painting!

Is that it? I didn't quite get why Renoir was getting stronger/Aline was getting weaker (with the Monolith annual countdown), or why the Paintress avatar was fucking huge and the Curator is human-sized, nor did i understand why they were broken in appearance in the same way the fractured soul of Verso was depicted.

>>527580576
>so she starts counting down on the monolith as a cry for help for her creations in Lumiere
small but important distinction; it's not a cry for help, it's a warning.

> I didn't quite get why Renoir was getting stronger/Aline was getting weaker
Renoir created the Axons and Clea created the Nevrons to serve as sort of Chroma batteries/resistences. Every piece of chroma they absorb (or trap inside the bodies of the expeditioners they kill) is prevented from returning to Aline, meaning she gets less and less chroma as time goes on.

> or why the Paintress avatar was fucking huge and the Curator is human-sized
The Paintress Avatar is what you fight in the end of act 2. It's basically the same as the curator or fragment of Verso. The giantess is never really explained exactly what she is afaik but I just assume it's akin to the axons for Renoir in that it's a giant painted servant/weapon.

>nor did i understand why they were broken in appearance in the same way the fractured soul of Verso was depicted.
Again, also not sure if this is explicitly explained but my interpretation is that it's a consequence of their fight pre/during the fracture. They are both severely weakened from their long confrontation.

>>527582183
> I think it's really just the culmination of the moments preceding the exchange. I'm also not convinced he was totally on board with preserving the canvas, or at least not at all costs anyway.
True, a lot of it is intentionally left up to interpretation to encourage the exact type of discussion we're having. That said, if pVerso was intending to wipe the canvas out again from the start of act 3, it'd just mean he was trying to regain everyone's trust in order to trick them again which would be pretty messed up.

>My feeling is that there was probably a sequence of events from the start of act3 until the end where Verso would find it in himself to want to fight for the future of the canvas, if not his own, but considering how things turned out it was pretty evident things were just going to stay the same or worse with Maelle rapidly descending
This makes the most sense since it would be bizarre to focus on his notably strong reactions both to Maelle's whole "Just one more hit, please Papa, I promise I'm not addicted" (paraphrased) or seeing Aline's failing health if he was just going to do the same thing anyway.

>I don't really feel like there's anything there to reconcile, to be honest. He's just a human being trapped in a complex situation, like everyone else in that story.
It all really depends if he was ever really on board with preserving the canvas, which could go either way since it's intentionally left vague. Granted, like you mentioned, he could very well have decided he was suicidal again after realizing Maelle was just going to become Aline 2.0 which isn't unreasonable.
That said, though, I still see destroying the canvas just to fulfill his own death wish as selfish, regardless of how much he's suffering. Just like Renoir (who I don't think was in the wrong), his approach is unnecessarily heavy-handed. "Millions (Billions?) must die so that I can rest"

Anyway, I'm about to call it a night, but it's been good discussing this with ya!

>>527574236
I wasn't saying that anyone was pretending, but she was definitely treating pVerso as a replacement for real Verso instead of treating him as his own person which is a point of pain for pVerso that is brought up multiple times. While it definitely would seem that Verso cares about Maelle, he treats her differently than pAlicia.

>>527573097
I killed the super boss and immediately quit forever, it honestly has zero replayibility because once you get strong weapons and pictos the gameplay is trivialized and there is no rush parrying and murdering enemies. Was fun while it lasted.

>>527588053
Maelle was character assassinated for "le message" simple as

>>527590391
I say Maelle was rotten from the start

Maelle was rightfully mindbroken and if you didn't protect her by picking Verso (which is what versoCHADs did) you hate Maelle.

>>527550669
To me it's so obviously wrong so it doesn't feel like a good ending to me. I guess the devs and me disagree on what is right and wrong if that was their intention.

>>527568461
Absolutely nothing fucked up about her creating those people, they live good lives. She didn't doom anything, that was Renoirs doing.

>>527590391
I didn't think she did anything wrong. Verso is the evil one.

Let's get some facts straight
>A painter is needed to keep the canvas alive, whether that is Maelle or Verso
>Without an endless toil of a painter holding the world together almost metaphysically as a god then the world dies
>Aline, then gets the brilliant idea to put human life in this world.
>Now all human life in this setting is dependent on a painter keeping it going

>Now that humans are here, You now have two choices
>Verso's soul, or Maelle either toil for eternity, or until they just die, keeping the world together so the humans there can live
>You somehow, either humanely or inhumanely, put an end to all life in Lumiere so that the Painters can fuck off/rest
Putting humans in Lumiere is like loading a million people onto a figure eight trolly rail and then making it so the only way to divert it for 10 seconds is to stab yourself.

>>527600660
Is there really an endless toil to keep it alive? Where does that come from? To me it seems you can leave and it will continue on fine by itself. They even talk about that as an option, the reason Maelle won't leave is because she knows Renoir will destroy it if she does. If she could trust him to not destroy it she could leave and come back when she felt like it.

>>527601148
Why is the painting destroyed and Verso dies when he stops painting, the lost boy essentially spells it out in all his dialogue.

>>527600660
Bro gestrals, grandis, and other random life that the family created existed long before other humans. Humans were one of the most recent additions.

Is there a way to get rid of the fucking black bars in cutscenes? That shit drives me up a wall.

>>527579068
Agreed. The hair metal screaming was getting really tiresome during the final boss. The OST was amazing in every other area but this.

>>527606048
>he hates Cinéma

thank God for AI

>>527606048
>frfr where is my 4K stretched shit brooo

I wish the endgame narrative wasn't so stacked in favour of Verso. I have a feeling most people who picked the Maelle ending did it out of spite, because the game promised a moral dillemma and then immediately took side in this dillemma.

>>527600660
We don't actually know a lot of these for sure, to be honest. We can guess based on what is implied about the specific canvas we get to see in the game, but that's all....

>>527615162
I do not get this at all. There's an inherent trump card on Maelle's side in preserving the painted world. To the point where in my first playthrough I knew Verso was going to be the correct ending and I still went with Maelle anyway because it's pretty hard just to choose to delete the whole painted world.

I also don't get this perspective of framing the situation as like an adversarial competition that should be balanced like it's a gameplay mechanic.

>>527617620
Near the end even the game itself stops treating the painted world as the argument. Also, the game is really afraid to show that Renoir's logic is full of holes, so in the end he comes off as more "in the right" then he actually is. The only one who does call him out on his absolutist logic is painted Renoir, but he then gets ignored.

>>527619263
Good point on painted Renoir, some retards think he was "evil" so what he says must be wrong.
But yeah he is one of the only characters who says erasing people in canvas is really really bad thing and is "death". At the end of Act 3 the last things Lune and Sciel say is only to support Maelle in her decision to stay, at no point do they say "we have right to exist, erasing canvas is wrong" or anything like that.

>>527620487
Painted Renoir even goes a step further and outright tells Renoir "it's not going to fix anything, you idiot, because the canvas is not the problem."
And coincidentally, I agree. Renoir is spending all this time focusing on the wrong, outward issue, even though the real problem is inward, that is the family is dysfunctional and destroying the canvas won't magically fix it. Because what is the next step of his master plan? Pretend everything is fine and nobody feels any resentment?

The sequel is a massive timeskip into the future and we are now playing during the modern day as one of Alicia's writer descendants.
You think it'll work out?

>>527622052
no. There wont be a "canon" ending, there wont be a sequel. And first of all, devs dont care about world building, they wanted to deliver a message and then throw this world into a trash bin. They are the "writers" game mentions.

>>527613197
I'm surprised I didn't notice the similarities sooner

>>527619263
>Near the end even the game itself stops treating the painted world as the argument
The game was never about the painted world. The painted world was never the argument. This was always going to be about the Dessendre's.

Anyway, I'm not sure what "holes" you're referring too with Renoir, but I don't think he's any less rational than anyone else in the story. I also completely disagree that his solution solves nothing like these posts below suggest. It's not like it solves everything in the best way, but it definitely solves a major problem for him and his family. Destroying the canvas WILL at least in the immediate future save his Wife/daughter from just straight up dying irl, and it WILL remove this major source of temptation from their options. Part of the allure of wanting to escape into a painting for the ladies is that the canvas contains a piece of Verso's soul, and by destroying it means they will no longer have that to escape to.

Could they resent him? Could they just eventually decide to build a different coping mechanism on another canvas even without the piece of Verso's soul? Yeah, they could, but that's a problem that could be solved when it comes up. By at that moment the most urgent concern was getting them out of that particular canvas and make sure they can't go back.

>>527620487
>>527621195

>>527627603
It doesn't solve Alicia's biggest issue. Meaning that she doesn't want to live a life as a cripple. I know the game takes an easy way out and later on announces that this was never an issue for her and it was always about Verso, but that's IMO disingenious. And don't give me that "she can paint herself a new canvas to escape to" because that's not a solution, because the temptation remained.
And I don't even think it'll help Aline much, because she'll just find herself a new way to cope, like sitting catatonic in front of a piano all day. What, is Renoir going to burn the piano next, instead of addressing the issue like he should have to begin with?

>>527627603
>Anyway, I'm not sure what "holes" you're referring too with Renoir,
The gaping hole in his logic is that this method does not address the issue.
He just decided to take away their toys, but they can just find themselves new toys to play with while the main issue remains unaddressed.
What is stopping Aline from creating a new canvas and painting a new Verso from her memories? She already did it once, she can do it again. And I don't think she would need Verso's soul for that.

>>527579068
>>527606248
Must suck not having taste

>>527628637
>It doesn't solve Alicia's biggest issue. Meaning that she doesn't want to live a life as a cripple.
Right, but neither does escaping into a fake world and pretend it never happened. I'm not sure if there's ever a "solution" to her being disabled in that world, but if she's ever to overcome it she has to at least accept it and learn to live with it, not run away and just ignore it.

>And I don't even think it'll help Aline much
It helps her not dying before she can find a away to deal with her grief at least. And again, secluding herself in a fake world and pretend like it never happened and straight up creating a clone of your own dead son to replace him is definitely not the solution to help her accept and move on from the event either.

>>527629445
>The gaping hole in his logic is that this method does not address the issue
It addresses the immediate issue which is that she's actively killing herself and just making her own situation worse but not actually dealing with her own situation and instead pretending like it never happened.

>>527630319
>It addresses the immediate issue which is that she's actively killing herself
Ok. So now Alicia and Aline will potentially start killing themselves in a different painting, unless Renoir literally ties them to a bed. Especially Alicia. Because for all this autism about how she has to return "home", he never gave her a reason WHY. "You will die" doesn't cut it, when she hates her life to begin with.
Again, the game just fixes one symptom of a much bigger problem and then tells us it all worked out offscreen.

>>527630913
Renoir should have let them be in the canvas, and visited them in a friendly manner like a normal person would and not a fucking psychopath who decides he has the right to murder and destroy everything just to force his wife to come back to him. Absolutely mental.

>>527630913
It also seems like you can live longer than a lifetime in the canvas anyway? They've been warring inside of it for 100 years haven't they? So they will live more than a full life... She'll die in the outside world faster, a world she doesn't want to live in anyway.

>>527615162
I think Aline just jumping back into being the loving wife in Versos ending makes no sense, it's a cheap way to make his ending stronger.

>>527632828
Well, he did needlessly escalate the conflict with Alicia, because she wasn't even hostile towards him at the beginning. She just wanted him to help her fix Lumiere and then we'll see. And then he immediately decided to blow more shit up, before Alicia even finishes her sentence.

>>527633658
Yeah. There is too much bad blood between Aline and Renoir, Alicia and Aline, Alicia and Renoir and even Alicia and Clea to make me believe they will just suddenly become happy family. And then there is Clea and her "I don't give a shit" attitude.
Renoir might try to tardwrangle this for a while, but they are one step away from another drama.

>>527633771
Even in the end, like if he just consistently visited the canvas in a firiendly manner and asked her to come out for a bit I don't see why that would be impossible. The reason it's impossible is because he doesn't trust his wife and daughter and wants to destroy the canvas first chance he gets, so they can never trust him and therefore never leave.

Do we know how long Aline was in the canvas before Renoir started destroying it? Like how many years did humans exist in peace before the sundering?

>>527630913
Brother, She's super young and clearly immature. This seems like insanity to argue that just because they're having a tough time you should just give up on you relative and let them kill themselves inside a fake world. That's actually insane. If it wasn't for the existence of sentient life inside the painting (which granted, is a big if) Renoir would be 100% correct in everything he did and said.

>>527633187
It's not real for them. They are just wasting away in there. They won't live a full life because it's not "their" life. "Their" life would've been spent as a fucking zombie having accomplished nothing and leaving nothing behind except a malnourished body slowly rotting away.

>>527633658
Why doesn't it make sense? Clearly she came to her sense and got better. People lose loved ones all the time and a lot of them end up finding peace with it in some way. Why would you believe it's impossible for a mature woman to eventually come to terms with it, especially when she's surrounding by a loving family (and husband) who want to help you through it?

>>527634120
>This seems like insanity to argue that just because they're having a tough time you should just give up on you relative and let them kill themselves inside a fake world.
Who says anything about giving up? I'm just saying Renoir picked the most idiotic method of getting them out there is.
He just assumed there is no other way and hyperfixated on the atomic option, that in Alicia's case backfired spectacularly, because if it wasn't for the deus ex Verso, he wouldn't have gotten shit done.

Are you guys going to argue in circles about this dumb fucking ending until the end of time? It's a shit ending that makes barely any sense, that's why you can spend forever humming about the what ifs and but could theys until you're blue in the face.

>>527634315
Sure, but the way they get her back is awful. If they talked to her and trusted her to come back then sure she would recover. They went in and destroyed everything she loved against her will and force her home against her will, I haven't seen a lot of good relationship built on those grounds.

>>527634315
>Clearly she came to her sense and got better.
Too bad it happened offscreen and we have to take the game's word for it.
>Why would you believe it's impossible for a mature woman to eventually come to terms with it
From what the game had shown us, Aline was anything but mature.
>especially when she's surrounding by a loving family (and husband) who want to help you through it?
Do they? Do they really? Clea only cares about the war with the writers, Alicia probably holds resentment, Renoir keeps setting her toys on fire.
This family is a clusterfuck. It's anything but loving.

>>527634508
how else is the thread going to be kept alive? lol

>>527634420
Except you don't know if anything else would've worked. It's easy to say his choice was the wrong one because it didn't work post-facto, but it did work for Aline eventually and very nearly worked for Alicia too , even without Verso. You have no idea if any other approach wouldn't have yielded even worse results. You can throw whatever approach you'd like to believe would've worked much better in your mind but you're just saying stuff. There's no reason to believe that appeasement and capitulation would've made her any more willing to leave the painting, when she was shown to be willing to force her own (painted) brother to live a life he begged her not to give her. She clearly thinks she's absolutely right and her ending doesn't really paint her as someone who's susceptible to getting more reasonable about the issue.

>>527635147
>There's no reason to believe that appeasement and capitulation would've made her any more willing to leave the painting,
I am pretty sure there is a middle ground between "let her do whatever the fuck she wants" and "BLOW UP EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE SHE CARES FOR, BECAUSE FACE REALITY BITCH, EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU". Renoir just operates on extremes that in this case are unnacceptable.

>>527634708
>and we have to take the game's word for it.
Yes. Whose word would you want? Literally everything that happens in the story is the game's "word" on it. What???

> Aline was anything but mature.
you seem to be confusing her clearly messed up mental state during the events of the game with her before (and presumably after) the events. From all the contextual clues and bits of info we get she's clearly a competent and capable person. She's the head of the painter's guild ffs.

And yes, her family clearly cares for her. Clea is the coldest of the bunch, sure, but even cold people have loved ones. Alicia clearly cares for her parents. She may resent the whole ordeal in the moment, but she never shows or says anything that indicates she actually dislikes them. And Renoir just went through a 60+ year war for her. It's pretty fair to say he fucking cares.

>>527635507
>that in this case are unnacceptable.
I mean it did work out, so....

Vita Mortis Careo

>>527613197
Just curious, what was your prompt?

>>527620487
They don't say it for two reasons.

1. Renoir himself says he doesn't really want to do it, that he perceives painted life as real and just values his own family more. (Remember Sciel even says she would kill to get her husband back so it's not like the rest of the cast doesn't get this.)
2. Having the cast argue for basic human decency when that is not the issue at hand isn't really what the story is about. It seems like certain players needed that to be stated in order to realize it, but I'd say that's more a failure of a player than of the writer.

Lune, Sciel, Maelle, Monoco, Esquie, Gustave and all the other people and creatures vs. Versos tears, Clea and Renoir. Yeah I know which side I'm on.

>>527635558
>she never shows or says anything that indicates she actually dislikes them
She is potentially choosing to never see them again in her ending. If I were her I would definitely think that Aline and Clea don't love me and that Renoir has good intentions but doesn't understand me at best.

>>527645849
based

only like 4 hours in but are all of the bosses just health sponges? i found this guy out in the open world and he had the same 3 attacks despite taking 20 minutes to put down

>>527645625
> Renoir himself says he doesn't really want to do it, that he perceives painted life as real

where does he perceive it as real?

>I'd say that's more a failure of a player than of the writer.

Listen guy, if so many players think life in lumiere is just fake and equivalent to npcs, video game, simulation etc it's due to writing in act 3, that is unconcerned about life in canvas and is just about family drama, and "le message".

>>527645625
>>527646651

Literally the next post im reading on forums that i see repeated over and over, confirming this is failure of writers

>>527646437
The (DANGER!) on the entrance is supposed to be a clue that it's content for higher level.

>>527646858
This is a reddit post isn't it

>>527645940
>She is potentially choosing to never see them again in her ending.
That doesn't mean anything. People do stuff like that all the time. A lot of people at some point in their lives make a life decision that is pretty much guaranteed to remove close relatives and other people they love from their lives. Doesn't mean they don't love them. I don't know, so many of these shit arguments come across as really autistic to be honest. It's like people don't want to move on their pov at all and don't wan there to be any drawbacks or challenges to their position and will just say whatever.

>>527646858
I'll blame the players, the majority being wrong is pretty standard.

>>527646651
He tells Sciel that he is aware that she is grieving for both her husband and child, as well as actually taking the time to talk to Maelle's friends and not instantly delete them. Like I'd say the fact he is willing to even entertain their conversation, much less express condolences and sympathy, shows that he believes they are real.

>>527646858
This is possibly the dumbest thing I've seen written about the game.

>>527643881
>first time it makes it but covers some of the dialogue
>the next 6 images created are random nonsense even though all I said was "make the sprite smaller"

better luck tomorrow!

>>527646883
to my credit it was still in the first open area so i thought it would be only kind of difficult

Did Renoir try to like, be nice and supportive of his grieving wife?

>>527626746
>>527643881
something like this. chatgpt is a wunderapp

>>527647334
>shows that he believes they are real.
So he didnt say that he " doesn't really want to do it, that he perceives painted life as real" . In the future dont make shit up

>>527647848
just attach the base image and a reference image of the replacement

>>527648008
another example. I added the last sentence because a previous attempt generated two Verso sprites

>>527626746
there is way more depth and nuance in E33, but the concept is very similar to FFT:A. I won't be surprised if Sandfall says it's their biggest story inspiration.
I think it's a very cool, under explored premise/concept that could also be viewed through a meta commentary lens towards gaming and our attitude toward it.

>>527648556
meta dogshit is boring, lazy and disrespectful to good stories and world building

>>527646437
>Why yes I killed the sprong at level 30 why does everything have so much health?

>>527648742
you can have both. good stories have multiple layers you can appreciate, anon. Though E33's meta commentary is a reach and isn't really a focus of the game, if it is deliberate.