Previous thread: >>528440430


Featured game by thumbnail: Rift Wizard

>Are mystery dungeon games allowed in this thread?
Generally yes, most mystery dungeon games(Shiren the Wanderer, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Etrian Mystery Dungeon, etc.) can be considered roguelikes too
>Is Elin/Elona allowed?
Yes, they are roguelikes
>Is Dwarf Fortress allowed?
If it's adventure mode, yes, that could be considered a roguelike, the same can't be said about its other modes though
>FAQ
https://l.idrix.fr/J7sOv
>What to Play
https://l.idrix.fr/eYNOh
>Individual Game Pastas
https://l.idrix.fr/wXd8t
>Roguelike Archive (Collection of pretty much every free roguelike there is)
https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z
>/rlg/'s "official" Cataclysm: DDA fork
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/releases


>News
28 June 2025 - Shadow of the Wyrm v1.8.4 released - https://www.shadowofthewyrm.org/downloads.html
26 June 2025 - Gloamvault b21 released - https://store.steampowered.com/app/3460840/Gloamvault/
22 June 2025 - Steam Sky 11.0.2 released - https://thindil.itch.io/steam-sky/devlog/971350/version-1102-arrived
20 June 2025 - Overworld v2.5 released - https://redasteroidgames.com/overworld/
19 June 2025 - NLarn 0.7.7 released - https://nlarn.github.io/news/2025/06/19/release-0.7.7
18 June 2025 - Tangaria "Deeptown Era" released - https://tangaria.com/news/deeptown-era/
9 June 2025 - Coop Catacombs 1.6 released - https://aikoncwd.itch.io/coop-catacombs

>/rlg/'s shared DCSS online account
User: rlgrobin
Password: ownfault (or "robin" on Xtahua)

Roguelike Servers
https://angband.live/ (Angband and variants)

1st for TOME is the best roguelike

>>529272463 (OP)
That's a lot of roguelike news

>>529273952
Roguelikes are healing

>>529272789
well of course

>>529248534
Pick a spell with at least two damage types (or an upgrade that does two damage types). They're literally always the best because you can pick the level with the best rewards instead of dancing around portals with immune enemies.

Imp Swarm has multiple damage types. Fireball has multiple damage types. Pyrostatic Pulse has multiple damage types. Golden Skull has multiple damage types. Flame Burst has multiple damage types. Every single type of Drake has multiple damage types.

See a pattern? These are the actual good spells in Rift Wizard because 100% immunities exist in this game. You can COPE with your shitty Conductivity, Pyrostatic Curse, Acid Fumes bullshit to break immunities or you can just pick a spell that doesn't get fucked by immunities in the first place.

>>529285482
So you’re basically saying “play chaos build”, half of those spells are either chaos or have a chaos upgrade

>>529286198
There definitely is a big advantage to dealing chaos damage types. I don't know what the devs were smoking when they made Prince of Ruin 4 SP and let it receive damage upgrades from so many passives. It even gets stronger if you build up stacks from the fire mask.

reposting rat tats (with crocs)

wait that's not a rat and that anatomy is atrocious

>>529285482
>Pyrostatic Curse
that's one of the best spells in the game as far as I can tell, even discounting the -fire resist debuff
I was doing insane damage with it deleting levels, given I had item synergy to go with it, pic related, turn 4 clear of realm 18 with the curse doing the heavy lifting
it also has a generously huge aoe and plenty of charges
now that I think about it, it also has funny synergy with carnival of pain
>pyrostatic curse to lower fire resist
>carnival of pain
>throw fireball or whatever
>fire damage repeats as lightning then the lightning as dark
maybe throw in a chain lightning with the fireball upgrade for extra fun


>>529286198
I think you can do fine with the resist lowering stuff and focusing on a single element, though at that point you're doing one of the archmage trials basically
there's plenty of synergy investment to do without going for chaos spells
like going for fire+holy or dark+holy or ice+lightning etc.

path of achra is cookie clicker for roguelikes

>>529292974
Pyrostatic Curse would be good if Prince of Ruin, Starfire, and Cracklevoid didn't exist. Damage proliferation is a good effect but Pyrostatic Curse comes with a ton of downsides. I'm glad you like it but I think it's dogwater.

I had to manually rebind my vi keys. More evidence that rw devs don't even play roguelikes.

>>529296963
dylan said so in an interview, he’s not trying to hide it

>>529296963
my game uses vi keys
will u play it?
it's not out yet but I'm cooooking

>>529298512
>nigger zoomer slang
probably won't be good then

>>529298512
It takes more than a control scheme to make a good game, anon. Good luck but no promises.

Warriors Abyss updates on July 4th with loads of QoL and free content additions. Has this general tried the game before? Should give it another spin soon

This game is supposed to be hard???

>>529300208
I'd say it's fairly difficult, yes. It ramps up in difficulty as you get closer to the end, but you also get more SP per level.
I see you are also a flame gate enjoyer.

>>529300138
Not a roguelike so this isn't the place for it, but I hope you have fun.

>action roguelike
https://files.catbox.moe/5qi2fb.mp4

>>529302564
An oxymoron of a genre tag if I've ever seen one
a real time turn based game
a first person third person shooter

>>529302564
this confusion would be cleared up if you guys said at the top of the general that this was specifically for traditional roguelikes

>>529302795
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SuDqNLgVHv8
an action roguelike is not turn-based

why would you use any melee weapon other than an axe in dcss? the utility of more range or miniscule more damage or using dex for damage is literally nothing compared to cleave

>>529302947
That's redundant, the term is just getting misused for marketing purposes at this point. A non-traditional roguelike would be like path of achra, which is still a roguelike.

>>529303145
Are you pretending to be stupid? I'm agreeing with you. I'm calling action roguelike an oxymoron, because it's not turn based when roguelikes are inherently turn based.

>>529303198
Not everyone plays extended, in shorter games you might not have all that xp to pour into axes + good axes are rareish. Reach can situationally be good to reach that summoner behind the wall of magic meat surrounding you. In bcrawl you get cleave with giant clubs btw, go wild.

>>529300671
We'll see if it ramps up. I think I'm out-scaling the power curve right now since I'm doing nearly a thousand damage per lightning bolt.

Nvm, an eyeball teleported behind me and I one shotted myself with a thousand damage lightning bolt. This game is pretty hard after all.

>>529304329
kek, I was just about to say, with that much damage you might be able to brute force the final boss
getting that far is still very good

why the hell do i keep playing formicids

>>529300883
So it's roguelite?

>>529305620
If you can define what a roguelite is, go nuts. Though this still wouldn't be the place to discuss it.
Personally I think it's a nonsense term. Roguelike: something that is like rogue.
Roguelite....something uh, sort of has random stuff in it and is run based? Mario kart is my new favorite roguelite.

W-why.. did they remove the sandbox settings on creating a world from CDDA, a sandbox game?

>>529306842
It's not realistic. Are you able to pick what world you spawn in in real life? didn't think so kid. Grow up

>>529306842
You one of those fags that likes FUN? We don't take kindly to those around here.

>>529306842
Xister we've already moved onto TLG
https://store.steampowered.com/app/3560030/Cataclysm_The_Last_Generation/

>>529307850
Jokes on you, removing them is on LGs road map turns out Worm Girl and the Special-K Edgelord hater kissed and made up after Worm Girl discovered she has no idea what's she doing. There's no escaping the K grenades

>>529306842
I don't even know what you mean here, can't you go to the advanced world gen settings?

>>529303414
Whether you like it or not, roguelike has become an umbrella term to encompass all games with procgen and permadeath, and traditional roguelike has become the term for ones that are turn-based and tile-based. If you want to cry about it you can but if you keep using the terms as they meant in the 90s people will just get confused whenever you talk.

>>529306185
roguelite used to mean what action roguelike means now, but ever since rogue legacy and hades and shit got popular now it means a game with procgen and permadeath but you have vertical metaprogression, meaning the game gets easier every time you play it, whether you win or lose. I hate them personally but they’re everywhere so its not like I can just ignore their existence and say “roguelite” to mean action roguelike because people will think I mean the games that get easier every time you play them.

>>529312412
That's nice sweetie, run along now. This is roguelike general.

>>529313280
This is a traditional roguelike general, and until you say that, people will keep posting about action roguelikes because you refuse to use modern genre terminology. And why should I leave? I came here specifically to talk about traditional roguelikes, which is what this general is for.

>go into someones house
>get told you're in the wrong house
>WTF DUDE STOP CRYING *shits everywhere*
You're definitely sane.

>>529306842
I wish there was a static world mode for cataclysm, where someone designs a world with specific locations and routes and balance etc. Then you choose your starting location based on scenario or class.

>>529313894
>jared goes into our house, labeled “our house plus jared’s house”
>jared enters, you have to kick him out, this happens fairly regularly
>I suggest changing the name of the house so jared doesn’t get confused
>you scream and cry at me for telling you how english works
its pretty clear who is insane here

Keep fighting the good fight, we're staying roguelike general because it's the general to talk about roguelikes. That the term gets misused and misunderstood is irrelevant, the definition has not changed. That you're a belligerent idiot is also irrelevant. I'm always polite when informing people this is not the place for it. See >>529300883
>google roguelike
>wikipedia is the first result

>>529314813
Enjoy fending off action roguelike players until the end of time. And if you’re really into traditionality and making sure nobody understands you might I suggest using middle english? noth hab ven ve awaẏ fare: All ẏs wermēs þt ve for care

>>529303198

- polearms are pretty OP in many circumstances
- axe is slow AF early on + hard to find good ones. can go an entire multi-rune game without finding one executioner's axe (same goes for triple swords + hand cannons)
- swords allow for maxing out dexterity, using stealth and ranged
- mace is probably the 2nd worst weapon type in the game but you can usually can get a demon whip, giant clubs, and great maces pretty easily
- staves are mostly trash but are good for mages + spriggans

>>529307850
they must have nerfed the fuck out of healing in TLG, It's taking me over a week to heal a wounded arm. It's like having those slow healing traits in dda.

Pretty cool that Jupiter Hell sold well enough to fund classic. Looking forward to it + the workshop support.

https://youtu.be/-13LUfagQhY?si=7IJA2eUmFAesOR7B

>>529312412
"People" also call men in dresses women. However we've yet to witness a man turning into a woman no matter how often we refer to him as a woman.

>>529321461
There is a very big difference between the two. One is a natural evolution of language to accommodate concepts or distinctions that didn’t exist before, and the other is the purposeful redefinition of words by political pundits to obscure meaning and confuse, to make it easier to accomplish their goals.

How am I supposed to survive in dcss as a spellcaster with such shit armor?

>>529328668
Could play an ogre so you at least have HP

>>529329593
I’m playing demigods who have decent hp but my magic based builds never last long because I’m stuck with robes and ring mail

>>529330145
>>529328668
Nuke everything to death before it can touch you.
Try DEFE or DECj of Vehumet, once you figure out how to not blow yourself up you can wipe the entire screen in a single cast. The key is that inner flame makes enemies take shitloads of damage when they're hit by anything, and then explode after death, dealing damage to other enemies... You can setup a chain reaction pretty fast, and the fire clouds block enemies, or if they walk through them anyway they become your next victim.

Also alchemy spells are incredibly OP, mephitic cloud will save your ass by blocking hallways and stopping archers from shooting, and then ignite poison turns them into death clouds. Finally you get olgreb's toxic radiance which erases everything in sight that's weak to poison, and then you ignite poison it and double kill them.

And yeah if literally anything gets next to you ever you die almost instantly. So teleports/pushes/summons are also helpful, but not as good as just killing everything instantly.

>>529040798
again playing forays and got to depth 10 again. This time I got detect movement and it really becomes a stealth game now, just trying to avoid all enemies while finding the last shrine for level-ups on this floor. I lured this guy on the glowing fungus for visibility, now I can shoot at him from a safe distance. If he survives, I can just set him on fire and run
I also learned that blink works differently than in DCSS. It is more like a small teleport and also works through walls, but you can't control it. pretty good panic button if you know due to "detect movement" that adjacent rooms are safe

>>529332190
Saved. I’ll try that next run. Thank you

>>529333936
easy clear
another trick I learned is that since scorch doesn't do direct damage, only sets enemies on fire, they won't automatically notice you when casting it. Perfect spell for stealth builds, the beam targeting allows for some cool plays on enemies outside of your LOS

>>529334410
>scorch doesn't do direct damage, only sets enemies on fire, they won't automatically notice you when casting it
that's an interesting mechanic
I remember you mentioning how there's limited resting too, seems like the game has some cool ideas

Does a roguelike alternative to CDDA (or any of its forks), with a comparable level of complexity and focus on survival, exist or am I stuck with it? Unreal World is the only game that seems close to what I want, but I just can't get into it.

At this point, watching the autistic drama around Cataclysm is far more entertaining than playing the game itself. Like they're def the chillest of the bunch, but the most hilarious troll is to get the Bright Nights fork people raging about, of all the the things...pockets. Yes DDA and BN split because of pockets.

>>529338349
I was going to say unreal world before I read that half
Is there something in particular you dislike about it? I've enjoyed it more than cata myself.

>>529338349
how is cdda complex

>>529341780
Have you seen the way armor is calculated in DDA? CBN just directly assigns a value to clothing while DDA calculates its armor values based on the materials, weight, thickness and composition.
Also water freezes o algo

tipping over the torch to light up a zombie

>>529345156
it actually worked, but fire is not as useful when you don't have a clean path for retreat. It needs a few turns to do its damage

>>529345742
>the heat sears you x17
I killed an enemy I set afire in a corner and now his burning corpse is doing tons of damage

>>529346126
a kobold smelled the cooking knight. normally, they're pretty useless and a support. Their darts apply "vulnerability", which lasts for 4 turns and means the next damage you take will be amplified. Normally, you just disengage when hit.
The fire procs it too.

>>529346343
the '%' are bombs that sometimes spawn, you can light the fuse. This enemy is about to get blasted

>>529347469
the cavern hag got one shotted from the bomb.
traps in Forays are more of a tool than a hazard. This poison frog is about to run in a stone rain trap

>>529347656
1 hp left. If I lunge at him, I get a guaranteed hit, killing him, and my weapon will have a good chance of becoming poison coated

>>529347869
finding an invisible enemy via detect movement and killing by setting a whole field of grass on fire

>>529348958
there is one of these triggerable bombs under this pack of rats. I hope I'm not in the blast radius

>>529350059
splatted to a cloud elemental again. These guys seem to be resistant to physical dmg. Problem with just zapping them with spells is that their cloud also blocks LOS. Next time I see a cloud, I just run away or blindly fire into it

good morning rlg

>>529350948
Good job, I fucking suck at Forays

>>529334410
I have barely moved from the downstairs, my single rest of this floor is already used up and now this asshole shows up and camps from my only exit of this dead end.
Considering just trying to blink out of this dead end and hoping to find stairs somewhere

>>529365326
I tried read IDing some scroll to get space for an orb on the ground.
Of course, it's a scroll of thunderclap, sending out a shockwave and breaking the orb, which explodes and freezes me.
But the second scroll is finally a scroll of knowledge, so afte rmore than half the game I finally have a fully identified inventory.
Of these, scroll of rage and ob of blades seem like excellent panic buttons, orb of teleported lets me get rid of a single enemy, and overall I have some decent offensive options now if I sense early enough that a fight will be hard

>>529365916
I finally got the god-combo lunge and necksnack, allowing me to instakill all humanoids from two tiles away (they can only see me for one tiles)
or so I thought. Apparently, armor can block it, and now I have a bit of a problem. This is still the same floor, so I have to start the next one with using my healing again at the start

>>529366509
good blink, now I can either be smart and rush the stairs or take a detour to the chest in the northeast corner
>>529335804
>I remember you mentioning how there's limited resting too
one rest per floor, and a fixed numbers of shrines (level ups) every two floors. Since I already have all the shrines for floors 13 and 14, it's probably best to just run.
Mana is also limited, but in practice you can cast a bit after 0 zero mana, which adds exhaustion. In my screenshot, this means I can cast detect movement without problems to evade enemies, maybe 3 blinks if I fail that, and can even throw down one escape spell, throwing the enemy away with telekinesis (good for throwing enemies into traps btw) or just spawning walls)

>>529367002
went for the chest and got rewarded nicely. Belt of warding means nothing can one shot if I have above 16 HP. This might actually allow me to survive the trip back to the stairs

>>529367172
unless this stupid troll corners me again. Blinking here has a good chance landing me in the heavily trapped treasure room.
>>529364318
yeah, it's tense. Normal roguelike tactics like I know from DCSS don't help that much because enemies don't really swarm you. Almost all enemies can be compared to uniques in terms of threat level. The tradeoff seems to me that the player has much more tools with spells, the environment, stealth and eventually items. At least the runs are much shorter and the game small enough that you don't need a wiki so one can learn much of it quickly

>>529367631
dumb troll, I walked back 3 steps into the corner and it forgot me lmao

>>529367823
safely made it down the stairs after dodging the troll a few times, but got interrupted during resting. necksnap+lunge solves this

the next level, 15, allowed to come back a bit. lost only 40 hp and still have a good chunk of mana.
I also got some nice items for the last few level, scroll of knowledge reveals the map (in addition to revealing items) and potion of mystic mind reveals all enemies to me for a few dozens turns. The stairs are guarded by demonic idols, so I fear it will be getting a bit harder now still.

>>529369207
level 16 greets you with some cultists ritually burning themselves.
That spawned a demon, I wonder if I can snap it's neck

>>529369408
I probably want to evade this guy. Good thing I invested heavily in stealth

death stranding roguelike

>>529369572
survived 16, 3 (or 4) more to go. This floor cost me my heal wounds potion.

>>529370153
and yes, you can snap the necks of demons, but they have double the perception of humans, so it's much harder to sneak up on them

>>529370586
17 was a cakewalk. I got "Passage", the spell that allows me to skip through walls, which makes evading enemies much simpler. I'm always unsure when having to chose between a magic and a stealth shrine, but Passage and extra mana help my evasion much more than 1 point of stealth ever could. I'll probably never get enough anymore to be save near demons anyways.

>>529373065
18 still has one defense shrine (don't really care about this desu) and a crusader guarding a healing potion. they are very strong and armored, so neck snapping won't work.

>>529373226
since he stood in a field of grass, burning down the whole room should work

>>529373384
burning down this whole level woke up everything too, making it a bit chaotic. The mage didn't notice me yet, so I can lunge to hopefully snap his neck.

thanks for the blogposts dude

>>529374769
I won, so this is the last

DCSS is the only roguelike.

I keep coming up with crazy roguelikes ideas
Perhaps I am too inspired playing non roguelikes

>>529377542
post the ideas

>>529377779
No I won't (I'm 100% black)

what did he mean by this?
https://roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Berlin_Interpretation&diff=53575&oldid=52105

>>529376040
Congrats
there is still hope for /rlg/

>>529377968

Berlin Interpretation? More like Berlin Shiterpretation

okay I'm adding hit chance for ranged weapons
I thought of this formula:
point blank hit chance is 100%
for each tile of range to the target, multiply the distance by the weapon accuracy decrease and subtract that from 100%
then, add the user's coordination multiplied by two
this way accuracy is linear
btw the maximum range is 28 tiles (roughly 30 meters, let's say it's 30 meters) as this is the viewport size
so at maximum range of 28 tiles for a weapon with weapon accuracy decrease of 1 it'll be 100-28 = 72% hit chance + average coordination of mobs of 5 multiplied by 2 = 82% hit chance
of course there will be weapons with lower accuracy decrease (meaning that weapon is better) like 0.3 so then the hit chance is 91% + 10 == 100% or if you don't have good enough coordination 91 + 3*2 = 97%
it's actually isn't like this IRL but who cares it's a game

>>529378849
>point blank hit chance is 100%
unrealistic

>>529378963
then suggest an alternate formula?
point blank accuracy stat and an accuracy decrease
so an item has 90% base (point blank accuracy) and an accuracy decrease for each tile to the target plus your character coordination multiplied by 2 (actually, not two but the weapon skill increase)
so there are three stats: point blank accuracy, accuracy decrease per tile, and skill multiplier

>please make my game for me
no

>>529379162
I come here for feedback

>>529379132
>point blank accuracy, accuracy decrease per tile, and skill multiplier
seems fine, but if there are multiple kinds of ranged weapons/ammo their accuracy over distance varies wildly and would be more impactful than skill

>>529376040
Grats

progress

>>529381871
are you gonna have infinite LOS

two roguelikers want to sit down
The rogueliker with high wisdom score buys a land, then builds a house on it then buys a sofa upon which he sits down.
The rogueliker with high intelligence score instead buys a sofa, then buys a house around it and finally the land the house is on top of.

>>529382748
not currently, maybe later
shooting at 50 meters is cool but then you have to worry about NPCs out of line of sight (maybe make a notification/status line for no. of enemies out of viewport?)
either way I'm currently making combat and all thje other stuff so that it's a game and not a techdemo

>>529379132
How about
>every obstacle, creature and item is modelled on a voxel grid
>ranged projectiles are modelled as lines starting from the end of the attacker's weapon
>bullets are straight lines, thrown objects and arrows make ballistic arcs
>they have a random angle error depending on attacker's skills and weapon properties
>the projectile hits wherever the line intersects a voxel, damaging that object and triggering any secondary effects (e.g. explosions)
>also if you try to make a ranged attack with an enemy adjacent to you, you need to make a CQC check against that enemy, and if you fail you shoot in a random direction and not where you were trying to aim

>>529395290
>>also if you try to make a ranged attack with an enemy adjacent to you, you need to make a CQC check against that enemy, and if you fail you shoot in a random direction and not where you were trying to aim
this is a feature from x-piratez, not og x-com
overall I think voxel sim is too complex, idk about it
I like the CQC check though

I planned more than 30+ unique locations on a giant open world map..

>>529410581
>Non-procedurally generated locations

WARNING WARNING WARNING NON-ROGUELIKE DETECTED WARNING WARNING WARNING. EVACUATE IMMEDIATELY

>>529411331
calm down, they will be procgenned
unique as in a separate dungeon with an enemy/loot set
it's basically the same as a level/floor in any other rlg like nethack or DCSS but it is instead a whole dungeon (meaning that it has many levels) with a FIXED location

>>529411556
so like ToME

>>529411892
yeah, it's basically like ADOM, ToME and QuD but the world is open (e.g. no overmap)

>>529412173
Wait you have a 1:1 scale open world map that’s static? I don’t think that’s a great idea. Either procgen the overworld too or just go for an overmap that you spend less than a minute in between dungeons like ToME

CDDA should have a fixed map now like project zomboid but the buildings inside should be randomized

>>529413247
how do I explain it
it's not static
the way world is generated:
there is a 2048 by 2048 grid of 32x32 cells (currently X Y for testing, Z level is WIP)
I have full control over the 2048 grid, I can place various cell types on it depending on the seed in any configuration or pattern, I can properly generate random railroads, roads, dungeons and whatever structure I can imagine depending on the seed
not only that but the 32x32 cells arent static too, they are also dependent on the seed (e.g. I can have a forest cell, fill a large area on the 2048 grid with it and it will have trees placed randomly or other features)
it's honestly more complex than having an overworld but uh well I'm doing it this way, it's kinda unique (no other traditional rogulike does this as far as I'm aware)

>>529413708
this

never understood the appeal of project zomboid
my buddy would grind his character's skills for hours doing mundane shit only rivaled by DF adventure mode
then he'd get hit a single time and have to make a new one

>>529415717
>he doesn't have autism

>>529418710
I start as a demigod in adventure mode each time
fuck wrestling zombies

>>529413708
>hey this great game should be more like this piece of shit slop game
Fuck you, buddy. How bout that.

>>529428000
>cdda
>great game

How many levels are there in rift wizard 2? I'm looking at lvl 20 and it's getting spicy

>>529429425
there’s 21 levels

>>529429425
you're at the finish line
20 has a big boss and a ton of monster then 21 has the final boss

>frogcomposband last release 5 years ago
>but it's been updated 2 years ago, just not compiled
>composband 7.1.3 also uncompiled
>7.1.2 is 6 years old

>>529429625
>>529429741
alright wish me luck I just killed pepo the frog

>>529431957
Good job dealing with frog the pope, good luck against mordred!

ok
....
so what does one do about this?

I've got throwing and maces, but that isn't important. The only answer I know of is some high-teir spell that doesn't check ev, but clouds still check ac and resist, which this guy has.

How does one plan for this possibility. What investment should I have made, just in case?

>>529431957
Killed him
pretty sure I was lucky didn't feel safe at all

>>529438659
a win's a win, grats
how'd you enjoy volcanic eruption? come in handy? I see it did the last hit to Mordred

>>529428000
unironically what is the appeal of a 100% randomly generated map? the difficulty curve of the game is incoherent based on what locations you randomly start next to. You could die instantly or be handed end-game equipment day 1. And your sense of progression is non-existent, the player is completely aimless because you don't know where anything is and the game doesn't either until it's generated. Every game of cataclysm inevitably ends up with hours and hours of miserably boring driving around hoping to trip over the place you are looking for, and then getting boxed in by forest and city requiring even more boring painstaking efforts to bypass those obstacles or resort to backtracking.
With a more structured or static map you as the player can at least plan out your run and what places to go and how to get there.

I can see procgen being desirable for actual gameplay content, in the cdda example those would be labs and other desirable locations like that, but having randomly generated podunk towns with loot that is useless past the first week is not the most exciting gameplay experience in the world.

It's even worse now that they added the quest factions, I can't tell you how many games I have resorted to driving in a random cardinal direction hoping for a quest hub to spawn and then it never actually happening.

>>529441479
Simplest solution is to use the Daggerfall method: generate worlds until you get a good one and then make that seed canonical and have every player by default use it.
You can still let people gen their own worlds, but there should be an option to just always use the default world which has been hand picked to work well.

>>529431538
FCB has potential to be the GOAT if it actually had a UI and some reasonable tilesets. Life's too short for no autoexplor and VI keys

>>529446319
Just wish I was tech savvy enough to compile something for myself. I tried following the instructions on the github for it but got nowhere fast.

>>529441342
I didn't realise how it worked when I got it actually, but the aoe is huge if there's a big chasm and the base damage is pretty good, I also had the shoes that let me fly so levels with lots of chasms were really good for me, it's quite situational I guess

>>529449546
There is a Wallcano upgrade too, which is doubly helpful if your build needs line of sight to function. But honestly I found the most use with blindcasting upgrade on Volcano because you often DO find levels where it works really well, and hitting over walls is one of the more powerful abilities for any spell to have in RW2.

>>529453309

Sayonara ... arelgee

I just splatted a DENe, is it just me or is necromancer basically a hybrid class? I had to melee so many things as a pure wizard and half my fucking spells only work at melee range! The animate dead spell destroying your zombies, making it impossible to kill enemies to make more zombies is an especially crippling nail in the coffin. Literally only Kiku made it barely manageable, and he gives you animate dead for free! All my other spells were useless outside of melee combat.
I'm going to try again this time as an ice elementalist and see if I can actually get some decent backline support abilities.

>>529413708
>CDDA should have a fixed map now like project zomboid but the buildings inside should be randomized
Aren't they working towards that? The Massachusetts map mod was an attempt at a fixed map and the current experimental riot damage is the attempt at building randomization.

>>529464285
>is necromancer basically a hybrid class?
Yeah
>I had to melee so many things as a pure wizard and half my fucking spells only work at melee range
That's because you're supposed to hit things with a stick when they get close. There's a reason why the basic spells from each school now all have some weird gimmick mechanic instead of just being reskinned magic missile. It's giving you a hint on the intended gameplay. Also Deep Elf is kind of bad because having negative HP aptitude is overwhelmingly terrible in crawl

>>529473117
isn’t ability to survive to a certain amount of negative hp just a reflavored increased max hp? At least that’s how it works in ToME

>CDDA, "zombie is about the same speed"
>Enemy can somehow keep up while also attacking
Are movement points different from attacks somehow?

Is it worth exploring the caves connected to a dungeon in Qud? What about just every cave you can find? Up until this point I would never go off the screen in the underground part of a dungeon but I decided to follow the cave off-screen and it let me to some interesting stuff like an ancient warlord cryonically frozen in gas and an ancient library with a ton of books. So is it actually like Terraria where there's just stuff scattered everywhere underground? That would be pretty neat.

>>529482290
yes it is worth exploring the Caves of Qud, especially if you arent merchant abusing

>>529482290
Qud has practically infinite procgen world. Every square on the world map is made up of 9 screens in a 3x3 grid and it's not just surface, it goes underground basically forever (although I never went deeper than 50 or 60). Even when you don't have stairs the underground levels are still there and you can access them by using a spiral borer for example.
As for whether or not it's worth it - a lot of cool stuff can generate on any given screen, and the deeper you go the more stuff you find. For example, once you go deep enough you can find cryo chambers with clones of yourself, including all of your gear. It's the only way of effectively duplicating some unique items like sultan masks since polygel does not work on them. A chimera with 8 faces wearing sultan masks is one of the most broken things in this game

>>529446319
auto exploring would kill you in *bands

I'm tired of shitty autoexplore. Either make it play the game for me so I can skip all the boring parts or remove the boring parts so I don't have to use it and can just play manually without it taking 30 hours.

rogue
>*licks*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHDWRyJ8P_U

>>529482290
>>529484025
>>529484426
can you travel WITHOUT using the overmap/overworld in Qud? if yes, then what I'm making isn't that unique and Qud did it first

>>529493986
You can, just walk to the edge of the screen and go to the next one (you might have to use a pickaxe if you run into solid blocks). There is no reason to ever do this though (except for the mountain biome, which forces you to do this saying "the terrain is too difficult to navigate from the map"), as the map is way too big due to the aforementioned 3x3 grid of screens for every overworld tile.

>>529494659
very sad, at least my game will have a really giant-GIANT map

Find the difference
>I am a very independent person
>I only get invited to events by the same person once

A large map without content to fill it seems pointless.

Robbie, I'm going to smash your empty neko head with a bat

>>529504763
there will be content
it's supposed to make you *feel* that it's large and you can go anywhere, just like any other "open world" game (the world is still limited)
gameplay should have multiple ways to progress e.g. you could go to branch X Y or Z first and then decide to go branch F or G but eventually you'll need to choose between branches H and J (there will be multiple endings. a good one and a bad one, depending on who you side with)

Die arelgee

you don't belong in this world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrl5Mrftz_o

>>529272463 (OP)
Anyone ever play roguelikes on mobile?

Inethack has been my go to phone timewaster for like 5 years now. Its a full version of nethack, and it surprisingly works well enough with touchscreen controls. most comon ones are on the bottom, can bring up keypad when specific actions are necissary, and directional controls are just tap in the wanted direction.

Its a really good genre when there is no internet or outlets available cause of replayability and low power consumption.

>>529519768
Mobile controls suck and the screen is too small. I never understood the appeal of phone gaming.

>>529525362
>Mobile controls suck
yes
>screen to small
and yes.

but its about how convinent it is, not about it being the best method to play ergonomically.
I always have my phone on me. I dont always have my laptop.
>screen to small
you can pinch to zoom in and out. I usually play in landscape

>>529519768
spd is my phone timewaster at work, although im noticeably worse at it because i dont want to take stuff slow. huntress/warden is my favorite class and when i'm on my phone i end up trading blows with tough enemies that i could have kited through doors and grass or gone around to a different entrance to their room.

>>529494856
> at least my game will have a really giant-GIANT map

2nd win,
Slime are strong, they are so strong that level 20 took forever because i had to fight a slime battle with slimy demons who resisted all my stuff and constantly summoned more enemies
Also I wish there was a way to tell who your super slimes are and would be nice if they could move past allies too...

>>529536240
Slime tree was a real mistake. There's a reason no one plays brain trees.

>>529376040
Congratulations man, fuck that other guy, I'm glad to actually see someone posting roguelikes in /rlg/.

>>529536240
grats
did you try the slime mimic upgrade for amalgamate?
I also ran into the same issue of slime vs slime levels being the most difficult

>>529533515
spd?

>>529534495
the image is not true for traditional roguelikes

>>529537415
Didn't try it I wanted to keep my slime friends

>>529538480
Shattered pixel dungeon

>>529505045
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8boAqMa-Bt8

>>529300671
>>529300208
Based on the number of victory screens posted here, I’d say it’s the easiest roguelike.

>>529540831
I had an easier time beating dcss, personally

>>529538727
>Shattered pixel dungeon
ah, thanks

>>529540831
its really not, I’d say that its the hardest for its length, the only ones that are harder are the super long ones

>>529479410
Negative HP apt in crawl just means you have -10/-20/-30% less hp than a human. HP is extremely good in crawl because it has a sort of rocket tag thing going on with how much damage enemies can do vs how much you can take, and later enemies potentially bypass almost every source of resistance through smite targeting, AoE or branded attacks except for having more HP. Ogres and trolls have dogshit EV and cannot reliably get armor until depths and they’re still exceptionally tough early because they have meaty HP

But also yes negative HP is mathematically identical to extra HP if there’s no other mechanics to discourage you from going negative. I haven’t seen it much in roguelikes but it’s a good way in tabletop RPGs to make your system look super lethal and gritty while actually being more forgiving than usual

>>529540831
RW2 has a fairly high variation in difficulty between runs, and there are plain old knowledge checks that will fuck you if you don't know what's about to happen. It's easy to get stuck in unwinnable situations if you're not very careful and knowledgeable, but there are a lot of spell/item combos that trivialize the game once you get them.

That said, I firmly believe that an exceptionally good player could win 1000 games of RW2 in a row. The combat is almost deterministic, you get full information at all times, and the game gives you 6 portals to choose from for every level. If you play properly and know all the enemies, spells, and items then the normal game mode is NOT challenging.

>work all day
>9 hour shift
>come home
>refresh /rlg/
>9 new posts

>>529552318
>That said, I firmly believe that an exceptionally good player could win 1000 games of RW2 in a row. The combat is almost deterministic, you get full information at all times, and the game gives you 6 portals to choose from for every level.
I was going to say something similar before going to do battle in the bathroom.
Rather than easy, I'd call rift wizard exceptionally fair. You're informed ahead of time of absolutely everything about a level, and you get to pick from 6 potential ones.
The default game mode feels more like a sandbox tutorial once you get the hang of it and understand how things work; the real challenge starts at the trials.

>>529553812
Roguelikes have always been a niche game type. It's better than when it was faster honestly. The shitposting used to be unreal.

>>529324123
those are the same thing

>>529328668
get better armor and try dodging
next question

Fellas we should allow action roguelikes to speed up the threads
all in favor say I

Roguelikes have no action in them. They are completely boring, lifeless, and static experiences. so NO

>>529328668
Casters in DCSS are way more tactical due to this and limited damage. You can't o tab as often. You want to clear floors methodically by using stairs and resting. Sometimes you just won't be able to clear an entire floor yet and you'll have to skip.

Really it's the early mid game that I find rough for casters, depending on what start you picked you start running out of viable options as your starting spells start underperforming. For example right now I'm running Merfolk Alchemist. Early game is cakewalk. But as you hit Lair you're hitting poison resistant enemies. Until I get a mid level spell that can actually nuke poison resistant enemies there's just going to be some encounters I can't deal with. For this reason I don't recommend trying to play pure caster. You can and should spare some training into dodging, fighting (more hp), and even a weapon skill. It gives you a last ditch option.

Amulet of acrobat is another game changing find since it helps massively to escape. Especially with the lame ass attacks of opportunity they added

>>529464285
>is it just me or is necromancer basically a hybrid class?
It didn't used to be but they ruined it 7 or 8yrs ago and have never been able to make it viable again. For example agony used to not be touch only, skeletons and zombies were permanent, I could go on and on but just know they ruined necromancy forever ago and it's just for masochists in modern DCSS. You might as well play a pure warrior, the utility you get from necromancy is minor because they kept nerfing. Draining health is pointless if you need to stand directly adjacent to a fucking two headed ogre. It's also why kiki gives you "wretches". Before he just brought corpses for you to reanimate. It's basically that meme where the top has a gymnast walk in a straight line with the caption "I am a necromancer. So I bring the dead to life to fight for me and use dark magic against my enemies". Bottom is mental gymnastic doing backflips over burning cars "I use necromancy, but I have to deal the finishing blow, but this spell only works under x and y conditions but only if it's at a 37 degree angle but only during the hours of 3 and 7am but my zombies wither to dust but..."

>>529328668
kill shit before it gets to you; use summons; pump your EV

>>529541693
Only with MiBe

>>529572336
akshully it was a DsBe

>>529334262
remember to pick up some dodging/fighting/LB/staves skill roughly by Lair

>>529435221
dispel undead
was that removed?

Do roguelikes need telemetry?

>>529540831
Rift wizard is pretty similar to path of achra in that the game difficulty is rather short lived and doesn't really return once you learn what "the good stuff" is. The long term fun comes from challenge runs, self-imposed or otherwise.

>>529569464
It’s true that the current way necromancy works is awkward, but it’s still a strong school, it’s just that anything that let you get minions in crawl was straight up broken before they nerfed or removed all the straightforward options. Sticks to snakes was notorious in being the last pseudo-summon that WASN’T limited in number and that alone let you cheese 80% the fights in the game by just shitting out adders and ball pythons until whatever was bothering you disappeared

>>529569464
I was looking at things and realized the best way to be a necromancer was just to be an actual decent character and then get a necromancer god.
But then that still sucked compared to just taking a god that gave you shitloads of other powers.
And the whole point of necromancy is lategame shit like lichform, but you can just start the game as an undead and get it for free...

I was trying ice elementalist into kiku, but I actually didn't get an altar for three runs in a row, and then I noticed the starting summon ice beast was ten times more powerful than all the undead I got...

>>529583829
tf? Demon is made in Unity?

>>529593785
Yeah, it's one of the first I think.

>>529583449
>ignore ac
>ignore ev
>level 4 necromancy
>max power only 100
>max damage 90ish, so 45 per turnish

huh... that's what I was looking for, yep.
Seems like a tricky investment for a Minotaur fighter with 5 int, but probably still good.

(Being invisible+unnoticed also helped this time.

>>529479410
not entirely true in regards to "reflavored increased max hp" since there are several talents/innate abilities that scale based on your max hp and not on your -hp
for example, a character with 1k hp and 0 -hp can be hit by Swallow dealing 700 damage and still live at 300 hp, while a character with -500 hp and +500 hp can get hit by Swallow dealing 375 hp and instantly die (assuming they fail the save) since that would break the threshold for Swallow's instakill
-hp is also the best way for scaling total health on characters that benefit from resilience like ghouls
a ghoul with 200 hp and -400 hp is way better off than a ghoul with 600 total hp since the first ghoul can only ever take 100 damage from an attack while the second can only ever take 300 damage from an attack

############
# IMPORTANT

: local random_opts = {}
: local ugly_colours = {
: 'cyan', 'magenta', 'lightgrey', 'lightblue',
: 'lightgreen', 'lightcyan', 'lightmagenta', 'yellow'
: }

: function random_element(l)
: return l[crawl.random2(# l) + 1]
: end

: function randomise_opts(opt_table)
: for opt_name, opt_values in pairs(opt_table) do
: local opt_value = ""
: for _, opt_subvalues in pairs(opt_values) do
: opt_value = opt_value .. random_element(opt_subvalues)
: end
: crawl.setopt(opt_name .. " = " .. opt_value)
: end
: end

: function ready()
: randomise_opts(random_opts)
: end

: random_opts.status_caption_colour = {ugly_colours}

>>529605730
>>529479410
negative HP doesn't exist in crawl though, right
you're not yanking my chain, right

uhhh ToMEsters?

>>529616034
This isn't bad, the only thing that sucks about this is that you lose like 75% of the loot compared to the default layout

>>529616172
First of all I didn't even know ToME could support multi-tile creatures. given I've never seen one before. Second of all, he's still not hostile right, despite being an elite boss?

>>529616358
It is not really multi tile, you can walk onto it. It only has 1 real tile. It's a weird hack job like most Tome.
Wait until you find out some weird shit like Demonologist's meteors being scripted to do damage based on the animation and not locked to the turn, making it a real time element in the game
>hostile
It's not hostile. It's a level gimmick where periodically one of these guys will dig a path for you to get to the right hand side, but tunnel will collapse behind you. So you are more or less always locked into fights.

>>529616523
Yeah I noticed it only said his name when I moused over the upper right tile

I've done the sandworm lair before, I know that the tunnelers are normally nonhostile, I was just making sure that these guys were too despite the label of "elite boss"

Died to a chest rare :( I really gotta stop doing those

>>529617073
lots of roguelikers die when they look at a rare chest.

>>529617073
Can't you just teleport away
Speaking of which, in this zone, if you cast teleport it will move you to the next level stair (it might take a few attempts) which has the real reward. The first level has barely any loot and can be quite dangerous

>>529617221
I had a 280 shield up and was at max health and that mf did like 500 damage in 1 hit and killed me I had no idea it was that dire, I still had stasis on deck as well as the teleports if I thought it was gonna be that bad

>>529593624
> I was trying ice elementalist into kiku, but I actually didn't get an altar for three runs in a row
You’re guaranteed to find his altar on D:7 at the latest, through Temple or a vault. Simulacrum isn’t necromancy anymore so I don’t think this is a good synergy anyway
>And the whole point of necromancy is lategame shit like lichform, but you can just start the game as an undead and get it for free...
Lichform giving you undead resists is only relevant for extended. It’s kind of counterintuitive but if you just want to have henchmen necromancy isn’t very helpful for that, you’re in it so your otherwise melee character has a Batman utility belt. Current necromancer is one of the few backgrounds that starts with a guaranteed source of smite targeted damage. Vampiric draining and animate dead aren’t so much for using on big stuff as to capitalize on popcorn you’d be killing anyway and bulk up for when you have to kill something actually scary. Even the higher level spells work like that. BVC is very funny to use because it’s like having an infinitely reusable wand of roots. But even beyond that, summoning is and will always be extremely strong in crawl because there’s few situations in which having another thing attacking an enemy isn’t favorable vs doing it by yourself

>>529621185
Yeah I've just been playing the elementalists, most of them are kinda fucked over by book spawns though. Like FE seems well rounded and self sufficient, as well as Cj, but IE, while surprisingly tanky for a pure caster is severely lacking in single target damage and AE's entire plan seems to be "hope you can run away". Then Al is either stupidly powerful or just fucking totally helpless depending on what monsters you get.
So far my best runs by far have been FE, I've gotten all the way through the dungeon and two runes, mostly without even using anything but the starting spells. Cj is almost as good at one rune, it's powerful and very mana efficient but doesn't have the chain reaction death explosions. Meanwhile all the rest are hardstuck at lair unable to deal with massive swarms of bulky enemies.

>>529622751
Your book is purely an advantage. You're only getting "fucked over" by it because you are sticking to the idea of I'm a caster therefore I should train magic. You might not get level 5 ice spells early on your ice elementalist, but you can get your starting spells castable and then train a melee weapon to min delay by the time you hit lair 3.

>>529627601
Yeah but I'm running DE.
Probably this is because I've never really used melee characters so I don't actually know how to play them(I got through Lair with a MiBe once but I literally just held o-tab the entire time so I have no fucking idea how to actually play the game)

>>529621185
>BVC
Not in the game anymore. It's replaced with a weaker version AFAIK

>>529622751
>Meanwhile all the rest are hardstuck at lair unable to deal with massive swarms of bulky enemies.
Yep. Same exact experience I've had. That's why I said earlier I don't recommend going pure caster. I made it to Lair: 4 mostly by using melee skills for everything I can't kill with my spells. Around Lair you either get screwed by power creep or luck out and find a good spell. You are almost certainly going to die of attrition as you get forced to use consumables constantly to survive those encounters in Lair. Currently running an alchemist of sif muna but his spells are infrequent and he keeps giving me useless garbage. Honestly I think it might make more sense to run into Orc first since at least everything there is susceptible to poison and you might get a book merchant at the end in Orc: 2.
>>529593624
Yeah this is why I said Necromancy sucks now. It's more like what charms used to be, that is a sometimes useful set of utility to supplement your character but that's about it.

>>529630303
Deep Elves are just miserable. They're only "simple" in the sense that they suck at everything else. Play a Draconian or Merfolk and you'll win 10x as often as a fucking Deep Elf.

>54 design doc drawings
>1300 lines of design doc text
holy shit I need to code more instead of writing shit
I should focus on making a playable prototype first

wakey wakey

>>529616034
Wallah I hate this version more than the default
takes forever to travel through it

>>529525362
Phone being too small is an issue on your part and mobile controls are on the maintainers. Gurr's Nethack ports are excellent for example, idk why that guy is playing another one

I LOVE autoexploring.
I HATE autoexploring.

>>529616034
Easy.

>>529656850
the fuck are you talking about.

>>529671490
He autoexplored into an ogre mage paralysis and instantly fucking died because roguelikes are dogshit.

>>529671651
now that I think about it isnt auto explore kind of strange? It's like you don't want to play the game so you let the AI do it for you. doesnt that prove the game isn't fun

>>529672074
byproduct of sprawling level design that's 90% empty
it's especially bad in tome where there's tiny little nooks and crannies like on the forest map
takes fucking ages to manually explore

>>529672259
If you didn’t autoexplore in tome itd take you 4x as long to get through T1 and T2 and actually get to the hard parts of the game, and it already takes way too long

>>529630303
DEFi works just fine, anon, quit being a pussy and train long blades or staves or whatever
get a shield to no-penalty level, whatever

>>529681102
>shit hp
>shit aptitudes
>it's fine

>>529690092
yeah, especially if you have good support spells

Alright, so I tried it.
Here we have my Minotaur necromancer with 2 int. I have not found dispel undead, land so the point of this experiment was not made.

Cigotuvi's putrification is very strong in theory, but hasn't been used to effectively destroy a boss or strong single monster as of yet.
Curse of agony hasn't seen any use, due to 5% power meaning it can't really overcome willpower.
Switftness was a freebie after cigotuvi, but hasn't actually been used.
Grave claw is as good of a disengage as swiftness, but also hasn't been used.

So, the bonus of investing in necromancy, spellcasting, and air magic is, in effect, wearblood/fugue of the fallen, which generally amounts to +1 slayer against less than half of targets. This lasts for basically no turns at all, but I still get it up to +7 slay sometimes.

The downside is that, normally, I would be reaching 22 fighting and 22 throwing by now, instead, which is enough that okawaru pushes that to the 27 level cap.

Yet, I am somehow alive and have cleared vault 4.

This is, simply, because I consider my character weak, and preform proper separation of the enemies before engaging. I haven't reached the point of shouting into the dark of every room before I enter, but maybe that's how the game was meant to be played.

>>529700650
even the bare minimum amount of tactical thinking will let you win most battles in DCSS, yeah

speaking of, where the fuck does a webserver for kimchicrawl exist, I want to SSH in

>>529700650
Necromancy really does have a lot of terrible spells. Grave Claw is the best one because it's easy to train and doesn't have a bunch of strings attached. I think my only proper Necromancer win was a Demonspawn, and the mutations carried me more than the magic.

>>529700650
.... ok HERE is the picture I meant to post

>>529704806
Well that's a shit load of experience invested in Necromancy with -3 aptitude, -4 spellcasting, -3 air magic, and 2 INT. I can tell Okawaru is carrying and you're just larping as a Necromancer.

I can’t stand having to re-explore the same ugly, buggy overworld map in ToME every time I want to start a run.

>>529704806
lmao. I'd totally spectate you or watch a vod of this, as a noob I think I'd learn very much from this. I struggle getting through the game with a somewhat optimal build

>>529709437
is there some replay function in the game, or do you mean like if it were streamed using some 3rd party?
Anyway, akrasiac is the server.

>watch good dcss player
>realize i'll NEVER be that good

>>529710960
I just don't have the reaction speed

>>529712730
I don't understand. Does she play roguelikes? Are women roguelikes?

>>529712792
/rlg/ is 13 people
7 of them are mentally ill
You now understand.

>>529714282
at least one of them always congratulates me when I win so they're alright in my book

>>529716640
I love that fella like you wouldn't believe

>>529716640
Are you the anon who recently picked up rift wizard 2?

>>529721967
yeah I was the win last thread but someone even newer picked it up and posted a more recent win
playing a bit of jupiter hell right now, though I've been fairly busy irl so I haven't gotten much time with it

>>529722446
Aah ok I was the one who responded to the rw wins

>>529706121
>Mi
A demigod in the same spot and build would probably have comparable skills while NOT being able to worship a god. The much better access to magic is unironically not even enough to make up for it if all he's using is ice magic and necromancy

Should I play Elin if I've never played Elona but I'm high functioning autistic but hate incomplete games? I don't mind them if by the time I get to the end it's completed, and I'm a slow player. Or are there glaring omissions from the get-go? I've been playing Nightreign and I'm done with my main's remembrance, so looking elsewhere.

>>529728967
I'd just play Elona instead
also not telling you to leave as it's a roguelike, but there's also a general thread on jp if you didn't know
>>>/jp/49571386

>>529729218
Thx anon I didn't know, have fun guys

>>529728967
Elin is in pretty active development so yeah there's going to be holes and also things will probably be changed in the middle of your (very long) run.

>>529272463 (OP)
is cdda / bright nights dead? that used to be all you guys posted. I kind of want to get into it again but I'm a social creature.

>>529730703
cataTLG is the new hotness
though nobody is really playing it either and it's taking turns for the worse, as always

>>529730703
My impression is that the people who play any version of Cata gradually lose the ability to communicate in a language humans can comprehend

>>529730703
CataBN is alive and well. It's just that people play it sporadically.
Some DDA niggas fled afraid to give fat motherfucker Kevin 10 dollars for his copyrighted project, and now they're trying to delete stuff and do shit in BN.

>>529709437
I think this might be the first time I ever saw this room in person.
1 billlion scarabs pressed 3 dispersal traps every 1.0 aut. Every single turn, I tossed a javelin or silver javelin. There was never the slightest chance that I could have walked into the safety doors to the right or left. I am fairly sure that RN+++ is required to do this room, which I did not have.

The points in necromancy/air never did much good. By the end, the dispel undead could hit for most of its damage, but that damage was worse than just hitting things. A few times, I saved myself by using cigo's miasma, but more defense would have done the same job in all but one of those cases, and saved me a few blink scrolls for the one situation where cigo was required.

I just don't imagine that the +1slayer from fugue was really that good. On occasion, it would snowball, and so let me take out a lot of enemies very quickly, but doing that is how you end up dead anyway. It's better to just hit and retreat. The big thing it did was give me some way to handle surprise reinforcements, but again, I would be just as strong by default if I didn't spend exp on necro.

I FINALLY got silver javelins and max throwing in zot 5. That shit SLAPS fire orbs, probably through a meatshield. It also solves the royal jelly fairly easily. Might need haste, without okawaru. Works well with fugue.

I'm going to have to watch someone else handle tomb 3 later, because I'm not sure what one can do to counter being teleported every turn. Seems like a playground for ultimate AOE spells.

No RN+++ means you can't sustain the 4 hells, and that every turn in tomb is a chance to have 5% hp remaining. No reaonsable source of regen+ means you can't really farm abyss, even abyss 1, though that might have become less of a problem once I switched to good weapon+armor.
Never done pandemonium, but my understanding is that it's harder than.... well probably not the last floors of hells+tomb, but harder than everything else

>>529732920
Cleared zot, had the 2 layer runes+vault, slime, abyss.

And finally, the 50~EV playerghost that I had 1% chance of hitting which caused me to come here and seek aid? Yeah, there was a +8 artifact demon whip on the ground directly under it and some teleporters on that map. I switched my unrand +1 eveningstar for a +8 demonwhip, used the teleporters, waited until the ghost lost track of me, evoked invisability, hero, finess, and might, walked up to it with 14% chance to hit and killed it before it figured out where I was.

So, the answer which actually worked was "use the items which you gained access to by freeing this player ghost."

If you can't beat a boss to get the items, just get the items first, obviously.
And it's really hard to hit a thing when you haven't figured out where it is yet.

>>529732920
bennus

>>529732571
you can still download dda for free

>average DDA baby when they see a game with real difficulty

>>529732571
Wait, are you talking about the steam version or did the DDA fags launch a whole new grift in less than a year since?

>>529681102
>get a shield to no-penalty level,
I still have no fucking clue how this works, the wiki page is some gigantic autism equation that doesn't explain anything. Really all the skill shit is retardedly overcomplicated for no reason at all.
Like how much shield do I need to use a buckler? And how does this tie into magic skills and wizardry bonuses, are there diminishing returns, is there some sort of soft cap? What does more skill realistically do? Obviously it makes me harder to kill but HOW MUCH harder? Like at what point am I getting anything out of it?
Currently I just carry a shield and armor around all game and every few levels I try them on and check my cast chances and then take them off again.

I'll say one thing, DEFi might not actually be impossible, I've been trying out IE again and ozcubo's armor is INSANE! I, as a pure wizard wearing zero armor, with no weapon skill at all, killed a boulder beetle with a dagger in melee combat while never going below half health. I've splatted numerous full power mages on those things, often dying in a single hit.

>>529733594
is this real bennus?
or a bot bennus?
are you truly spurdo?
are you merely an illusion?

Finally, got the mindslayer unlock, took a lot of tries and a lot of different approaches, but it turns out alchemist is the best equipped to take out subject Z while keeping the Wayist alive at level 9. Now I never have to play as Yeek again.

>>529733924
DDA players don't even play roguelikes, when they get bored of DDA they go play shit like rimworld

>>529730703
You don't want to go anywhere near Cataclysm unless you enjoy the same repetitive grindy gameplay that refuses to change.

live ... arlegee

>>529656850
Same

Cortex Command is a roguelike.

>>529732920
why would do do tomb without death form or statue form

>>529732920
>why yes, I took my memebuild to Tomb:3, how could you tell?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gta_9GCJV40
it's a real scorcher in here

Sideways should return to maintain FrogComposband again

God I wish gacha games were relegated to /vmg/
they have a whole fucking board and they still spam their threads here
anyway roguelikes
Jupiter Hell is kind of ugly. Classic tileset looks pretty good, tempted to just wait for that.

>>529441479
>bro is in a roguelike thread asking what is the appeal of a randomly generated map
Next you’re going to ask me what’s the appeal of randart weapons. If I wanted the same experience every time I’d go play Dark Souls or something. The fresh experience of a new roguelike seed is a major appeal in itself. If you want to get down to the psychology of it, it’s probably a dopamine hit from the gambling part of our brains. Same reason I play 4x games instead of GSG, I want to feel like I’m starting from the beginning every time and build my way up from there. Not as a clairvoyant meta gamer.

>>529801658
Just because randomized elements can be applied constructively in specific cases doesn't mean that more randomization of everything all the time is always better. If your character's stats randomly changed every in game day and the capabilities of enemies randomly changed depending on the random weather it probably would not make the gameplay better I think we can agree. There are certainly times you can apply randomization to keep things fresh, but it's important to identify exactly how and when that opportunity exists.

I don't think that the map generation in cataclysm is one of those cases for the reasons I specified, the overworld map is 95% uninteresting stuff past the first few weeks, essentially useless for even a mid-game character. Meaning that the procedural generation of that map is more of a headache than anything very soon after starting the game, if not immediately when considering those scenarios I mentioned of being insta-killed or dropped on top of a loot pinata.

I’ve done about 40 runs in a row as an Ignis acolyte mountain dwarf and I’ve only made it to the orc mines once. I’ve been rushing maces to 16 while also training fire to 6 (for scorch) and armor/fighting at the normal rate. If I find forgecraft spells I start training that as well. I’m able to make it through the dungeons no problem but I usually die in a vault or in the lair. Sometimes I die due to laziness but more often it’s confusion between which enemies can kill me and which can’t. For example sometimes I see a red-highlighted mage which I kill easily but then a Komodo dragon has no warning but does loads of damage.

>>529802857
DCSS is like a cascading series of decisions to cope with bad RNG. If you have any melee weapon at min delay, you probably beat a Komodo dragon 90% of the time, but the other 10% of the time you roll like shit and you have to use some other resource to kill him.

Then once you start recognizing that there is a small chance you roll badly and shit goes sideway, you can spend resources earlier in the decision train, like spending a couple wand charges before fighting the dragon instead of drinking a potion in the middle of a melee battle. Those wand charges are cheaper than the potion so you get off easier by making predictions. If you play like this, the whole game just becomes a resource puzzle where you try to predict how many resources you need to spend on each encounter. If you're not making it to orc then I'm sure you're dying with lots of resources that you could have used. So read ID your scrolls, and use your early resources whenever you're not 100% sure about the outcome of a battle. If you die with no resources then that sucks too, but it's much less common than people dying with 30 scrolls and 20 potions.

were teenage girls in summer always this slutty and did I never notice because I was a pasty nerd or did they get hornier and sluttier

>>529806923
no, the world has become increasingly more degenerate, fat and covered in tattoos. Ignore women entirely. It'll make you better at roguelikes.

>>529806923
I live in Alaska. 70% of the year I’m lucky to get a glimpse of ankle, then suddenly when it gets to 70F all the women go out in sports bras and miniskirts. Do you have any idea what that does to the libido? It’s like being a Muslim and seeing topless women in Europe for the first time.

Any roguelike about grinding at the gym and hitting on fat chicks to level up and acquire skills, with the end goal being to snag a hottie at the beach?

you'll never snag a hottie but you can hold a slampig

>>529741894
>Like how much shield do I need to use a buckler?
About 4-6. It's basically never a major burden to pick up a buckler and if you're using a one hander anyway it's free defenses. IIRC the newer versions tell you how much skill you need if you open their description in the inventory. Regular shield is about 15 and tower shield is basically only if you intend to max out the skill

>>529806923
I remember years ago some guy came here and posted about the "mesugakis" he was seeing on his neighborhood and after he tried to explain himself with a hololive clip his post got deleted and he caught a ban. Which is to say, I think you should go to a club, download pokemon go or something if you've been playing so much nethack that the girls from the local middle school start looking good

>>529810113
>posted about the "mesugakis" he was seeing on his neighborhood and after he tried to explain himself with a hololive clip
pedophile general, checks out
>download pokemon go or something if you've been playing so much nethack that the girls from the local middle school start looking good
is pokemon go still a thing? I remember being really hot like 10 years ago
And I'm guessing pokemon go would be the best way to find middle schoolers so that's fair

>>529806923
Your sexual repression is wearing off.

>>529810113
Your sexual repression is going on strong.

i got overconfident and lost my 10 hour character

>>529820020
So it goes.

>>529802857

go with a different character, like MiBe or MiFi or gargoyle due to the high AC and poison resist

or go with something like MDFi of qazlal

for something extra spicy, use Ru and try to make it quickly to apocalypse and spam that

I fucking love necropolis es
...
necropoli?

>>529839148
I too prefer to hang around the dead. Just because they're more quiet and old fashioned, certainly not a necromancer.

I have just confirmed that if you don't like your okawaru gift and so you abandon okawaru and then rejoin okawaru, you still get the same gift after raising your piety back up.

Note, I accepted the armor gift, so it's still possable that accepting neither gift and then resetting okawaru gives you new gifts, but probably not.

>>529732920
>cleared slime
I am on FUCKING FIRE

>>529721650
same

>>529839726
too spooky, man

>>529802857
The game tells you how much damage an enemy’s attacks can do, how many it has and any potential effects. If you’re careful you’d know if an enemy can kill you in one or two hits as soon as they enter LoS. If you’re really struggling you can probably find a rc file that changes the threshold before the game stops you from tabbing at like 50% because the default is low enough that if you’re in a otabbing fugue state it’ll only stop you when you’re within 2-3 turns of dying to a strong enemy

>>529839148
"poleis"

any elinfags have a QRD on updates to the game since new years? haven't played since day after christmas. looking to start a new save that i already had about 20 hours into. is bonito flakes wine still a thing?

Does Finger 6 item not work in Rift Wizard 2? It says it gives to all spells +1 num summon, but I spawn only 1 Void Drake

>>529895435
it only works with stuff that already has num summon in the spell attributes

>>529633090
They changes some numbers but they haven't removed it last I checked.

>>529729218
The QOL in Elin is really nice though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR0XfHWRqA8

>>529896990
Thx

>>529313942
That'd be nice actually, hate that the 'unique locations' repeat, with identical NPCs in each.

Though what I want the most out of Cataclysm right now is a re-work of the roads, with highways, local roads and dirt roads. Highways connecting cities together (either going through or around), local roads branching off highways, and dirt roads branching off local roads going to out of the way locations. Giving the map some logic.

I shagged a girl that filled those dolphin shorts rather nicely while you keep posting pictures of women you will never touch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gre-o_tsumk

Does Mel's game belong here?

jerk off before posting
I used to be on team sweaty women but change your mind after a good whiff, especialyl if she hasn't showered and it's summer and she's that meaty
and girls with big thighs like that stink the most
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlSF5A18py4

>>529914590
>jerk off before posting

sometimes I jerk off so much my dick hurts and I can't jerk off. roguelikes.

>>529914884
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcDlFAOdeb8

>>529850589
cleared slime,elf,zot. That makes 2 3-rune wins in 4 attempts. I'm to understand that 33% is a good winrate, thus the excitement.

Tried to grind for 27 in physical skill + shapeshift for death form in abyss. Got malmuted to hell so I had -scroll debuff. Eventually, a starcursed with a swarm of abominations got me. That microstun on the starcursed makes retreating hard.

So, lessons
1. simply do not stand and fight if there's a starcursed or a malmuter in the abyss. Get to cover, or leave. This makes exp grinding near unbearable.
1-b. settle for rN+++ in hell. You don't need death form for that. Go get the safe-er exp sources from hell first.

2 if you are going to farm abyss, don't bother removing all but the worst malmutations after zot+slime. Just take those to hell and live with them. Save them for after you have death form access.

and, bonus lesson
the silver javalin strat on jelly does not require finesse or haste. It's really strong, and probably doesn't require 27f-27t skills, either, if you've got reasonable str-dex. On failure, you can even just try again, or else burn a scroll to make it a guarantee even without rF of any kind. This means that, if you live long enough to get here while having okawaru as a god, there is almost no amount of bad luck with loot which is enough to prevent a very likely 3 rune win.

>>529925710
The easiest way to do tomb is to worship the shining one and abuse tree form, cleansing flame, attraction potions and scrolls of fog/ poison to block ushabtiu clouds. You can also teleport on tomb:2 to skip tomb:1 and just go to tomb:3.

Abyss farming is very dangerous and very tedious, I find that only certain characters can safely farm it before they get dragged down to the more dangerous levels.

On the other hand, pandemonium farming is very tedious but also very easy, as you just find a decent floor without malmutaters and farm it until your zot clock runs low. You can press shift x ctrl f to forget the map to autoexplore for tens of thousands of turns.

In general, death form takes too long to grind for, which is why undead characters, gargoyles, statue form users and shining one worshippers are strong choices for extended. The vampire talisman is also a fairly cheap option, although somewhat limited by the lack of regen. Finally, you can also do the first 10 or so levels of a ziggurat to gain xp, although this is very dangerous for some characters and should probably be avoided unless you have a few blink scrolls.

why dont you just do 15 runes instead of farming xp

>>529939294
hells hit you with draining occasionally, which means there's a heavy incentive to have negative energy immunity before doing hells.
Tomb is tomb and I attempted that without maxed skills and it was nearly an incorrect answer, at least the last floor.

pandemonium, as I understand it, locks you into floors you can't retreat from. That means floors can basically drop you in a death pit, no matter how easy they tend to be. It would help if I had ever been in pandemonium in the first place. My ignorant oppinion is that pandemonium is more for reliably getting items per-floor, rather than getting the experience for max combat stats.

That's
2 layer runes (check)
vault, abyss, slime (check)

5 pandemonium runes (seems like you have to know that you are prepared before you attempt it, and I don't know when one is prepared for this yet, on account of having never been there yet)

4 hell runes( while I've done some of these in the past, they seem really dependent on resistances. Being dead contributes a lot of resistances. Seemed worth getting death form, or at least trying. Wasn't worth.)
tomb(recently attempted to do this instead of grinding exp. That was incorrect. This time tried to grind first. That was wrong too. That's what happens when you try to learn new things. Stuff doesn't work until you find something that does.)

Realize that I only just now learned to quit vault at vault 4 and go do slime instead. I aint a noob, but I'm not that far along, either.

>>529925710
>tree form rtorm
that....
honestly feels like a spoiler. I'm gonna go ahead an pretend I don't know that.

>>529944046
It literally tells you in the description for tree form. In the current version there are no useless consumables, only ones with niche or situational use

I really want to buy cogmind but at the same time I have a feeling I'll roll some terrible rng and get bored after 10 minutes. I wish I could make up my mind

>>529944046
idk if theres something new but afaik you can always leave pan, the issue is that you can't re-enter those floors if they had runes on them.
Pan is the easiest extended branch, get TSO near max in crypt and you're good to go. As good as you're getting anyway.

I need an idiot guide to DCSS. From what I can tell this shit is for babies and all I do is get assraped and keep playing the same fucking few beginner dungeon levels over and over and over. The furthest I ever got is Lair. Even with apparently retard proof builds like o+tab minotaur. I can't do fucking anything.

>>529953326
the key is knowing when you are strong enough to o-tab

>>529947283
I tended to use tree form when I needed to survive a swarm in nest, or for some situations in dungeon/early timed vaults.

Poison does a predetermined amount of damage per turn. Tree form multiplies your current hp by 1.5 and your Regen... increases some amount.

I did a run to test it. My
max hp: from 106 to 159 (*1.5)
hp reg: from .37 to 4.6 (???*1.24??)

So, it can save you if you are about to die from poison, and resists new poison from the local spiders.

Anyway, yes, the information to play the game is mostly present in the game. That doesn't mean everyone perfectly aborbes that knowledge the first time they come across it. Learning what everything's use is is part of getting good, and has to be done one step at a time, with help from the wiki/source code, preferably, or people.

>>529950392
If you enter pan, you might get a rune-level, at which point you have to get the rune or else you lose a rune forever. Seems like a bad idea to try to grind for levels there if you aren't already strong. Technically you can plan to leave, but that's literally a gamble with no way to increase your odds other than doing it after you've already got the exp you think you need.

>>529953326
Minotaur is a trap.
It teaches you exactly the wrong way to play the game.

Most other characters have a panic button, or speed, or easy access to a book of tricks and/or item skill or a racial trait. For them, the answer is obvious. When things go wrong, just make some distance and leave. When an enemy is stronger, use a resource you were born with.

Minotaur was born with horns, which trigger when minotaur is hit, when they feel like it. That's not useful when you've already fucked up.
Minotaur has the bestest stick hitting and getting hit skills. That's real nice when you want the thing in front of you to die. It's useless in the 5% of fights when your hp drops to 3 after two turns.

Minotaur tries to simply be strong enough to push through an enemy, to stack enough advantages that you don't need to retreat. That's wrong. That results directly in every 5th D:5 ogur smashing you, and every 4rth D3: priest smiting you, so that you're left standing there contemplating a might potion in your pack and an almost empty hp bar over the head of both you and your opponent.

>smoke demon
>potion of lignification
>fire +
oh

Minotaur isnt even that good after the early game. Personally fond of playing nagas, forces you to play slowly in the beginning but you get really strong.

>>529956732
>>529958696
Even for a beginner minotaur can be good because it ensures you can make it to the endgame consistently and get more experience with that part of the game. The problem is more that they're super fucking boring to play and still have some mechanical quirks (int so low and magic apts so bad you aren't casting shit) that they're still not "representative" of how other types of character play, but mountain dwarf exist for that exact niche of being an all-around easy mode race

>>529488027
I see you fellow /funkg/ retard

>>529965920
In defense of minotaur's design, the fact you have 2 int and low magic apt means that you only have access to low-level utility spells which don't care much about spell power, and you are simply desperate for some utility.

It tempts players to find uses for the seemingly unimpressive spells. At the very least, it makes swiftness look real good. Summon butterflies was also quite tempting in the past.

any use for this or is it just for shits and giggles? will enemies attack the sheep?

>>529979350
Suspect it would take up space and not attack you, so you could use it to decrease the rate at which you are getting hit
Might be a free raw meat shank, pending fire
haven't played whatever this is

>>529979870
its shattered pixel dungeon. i tried throwing it into some traps to trip them and it kinda worked, but the sheep spawned behind me and blocked my exit so it ended up not working overall

>>529953326
maybe try a hunter. kobold hunter or spriggan hunter. i would say halfling or centaur but that shit got deleted out of the game. go with okawaru or if you are adventurous, hepkliana because you can shoot through your summoned ancestor

won zorbus again today, this time with soothing solitude and spirited glad to see motion and evasion stacking is a viable strategy.
>>529979350
both, it blocks spaces like >>529979870 and can be used to put distance between an enemy and you in a pinch.

>>529925710
Got another one. That's 3 out of the last 7 characters which had 3 runes.
I am accelerating, fucking finally, after years.

Lets check. After 2200 losses

How do I read the resistance symbols? What's the difference between 3 dots, a lot of dots, an 'x,' etc...

I am playing cdda and have survived for a couple of months? Does the game have a decaying world like Project Zomboid?

Also why is heating so easy to beat in winter? You just go in a basement and its warm? huh?

Two worlds collide, on the inside

>>530001679
the enemies progressively get stronger as time passes. They start out as generic zombies and over time change into brutes, hulks etc and the rate of their mutation increases over time. So eventually you will see quite a lot of high tier enemies.
Of course by the time you reach that point you likely have a fully armed and upgraded vehicle meaning you are effectively invincible in the overworld.

As for the temps they tried to simulate the real world effect of underground having more stable temperatures than the surface but the effect is way exaggerated so it's basically comfortable year round. The only place you will ever be threatened by low temperatures is in ice labs but those are borderline extinct in the modern game anyway.

>>530001308
The dots are how many pips of resistance it is possible to have, the plus signs are the pips you actually have, an x means you're vulnerable to that kind of damage

Roguelikes that make you feel like The Wire?

Dredmor sucks

I have no idea what to play

sayonara ... arelgee

>>529979350
There are trap rooms where every tile is a summoning trap, you can throw one of those in those rooms to activate the traps and since tiles are full of sheeps the enemies don't get summoned
It had another use but I can't remember atm

soft

I own faulted
Didn't register that I was low hp while ascending in shattered PD, but it still counted as a win

I’m here to eat cookies and play roguelikes and I’m all out of roguelikes.

is there / why isnt there a roguelike game set in middle earth with a full overworld map of middle earth? it'd be so cool

>>530002170
sounds like shit gameplay

>>530062820
What would you do on the overworld?
And there's really not that many dungeons. There's Angband obviously, and Moria, but that's basically it.
I actually think Moria didn't get a fair shake, it's perfect for the "infinite abyss full of horrible monsters" setting in a way even Angband isn't. Remember even Morgoth was actually AFRAID of what was down there and a Balrog tucked it's tail between it's legs and ran the fuck away from the Watcher in the Water.

>>530065169
You're right, but I want to explore hobbiton and stuff. It'd just be fun to walk around and do stuff. Maybe a roguelike isn't the right genre for this though.

>>530037798
ya i literally did that after i posted and the sheep spawned behind me, trapping me, almost getting me killed lol
>>529980106

>>530062820
Almost guaranteed there's a *band or ten with this

>>529742325
But Yeek Necromancer is cool tho

Thanks okawaru

I'm sure that's fine

Is there a game like CDDA but with a decaying world and realistic winter survival gameplay?

>>530085664
>decaying world
Idk what's that
>realistic winter survival
That's UnReal World

>>530062820
tome2.x.x has that; so does First Age Angband (FAAngband)

>>530085664
pretty sure you can crank the climate temperature down in world gen. I remember being able to do that at some point at least, never did it myself.

as for decaying world like what do you want? 99% of playthroughs won't even make it to the second year let alone multiple years. there's only so much decay you can have on that timeframe.

dcss is the best roguelike

dcss is one of the roguelikes of all time

Holy shit what are the odds of this, tier 5 random unique belt dropping at level 16 in Dominion Port

>>530132890
Dominion Port has unique chests that drop tons of loot.
Otherwise, it's also possible for chests to randomly drop t5 early on, but rarely.

>>530132890
Can’t play tome because of the absolute item/stat bloat on every screen/submenu so I dunno

>>530132890
Happens fairly often in the main campaign, you can sometimes get a t5 orange weapon in a t2 dungeon.

>>530132890
embers of rage has a higher power level than the main campaign, the loot pool also has more powerful uniques, which gets turned on if you get a tinker escort in the main campaign
Difficulty also affects it. On nightmare or higher you'll definitely have at least one t5 equip by level 25 but the scaling of enemies outweighs the shiny gear

>>529272463 (OP)
Is RW2 really a big step up from 1?
My biggest problem with 1 is that while the build system was cool, it was completely deterministic and I had no real desire to play it again once I beat it knowing I could just use the same build over and over again

>>530135604
RW2 is a lot less deterministic, gear can make you change your entire build around

>>530135604
It's tuned hard enough that I usually rely on the random items to get through early stages. But I do end up building a lot of similar builds by the time I get to endgame because there are some things that just work once you have enough SP to buy them.

>>530136002
>>530136189
Thanks anons, its got a nice sale on now so might give it a go

>>530141294
women have the weirdest fetishes.

>>530084902
charm nessos and tp. Return to a room full of corpses and enjoy the loot

>>530147980
>charm nessos
>wasting one turn making sure that ther zerkbarian with paralysis can get right next to you
You're a special one, aren't you?
>>530147602
Yes.

>just discovered the path of dust
Oh. This, I like. All your wins are basically just proof of concept to see how long they last in the afterlife. Slowly accumulating more heros.

>>530001308
>>530003442
I never liked that system, it's very vague and arbitrary like why rElec is only one pip but rN 3 and Will 5 ?
I would like to change that to be more like RW with a clear % resistance but everything needs to be rebalanced. One attempt I made every resistance have 4 pips, each being 25% resistance, the cool part was rebalancing randarts to have more double/triple resistances and added full immunity ones, also added base rings with double resistance.
Then all the random rolls became even more unpredictable than before which was the opposite of what I intended so I gave that one up.
Maybe I should start that from a fork instead of mainline.

>>529272463 (OP)
Anything particularly notable change in the last five months when it comes to CDDA experimental?

Also, anyone really hate how autistic these fuckers are about the game world taking place in Massachusetts, instead of just generic Burgerland? Just glancing at the PR's in the github, they're now deleting guns and magazines over 10 rounds to comply with anti-gun laws in MA. Do they hate fun?

>>530141294
Sometimes I forget that this episode exists, lol.

Sometimes I forget that rlg exists

sometimes I forget that I exist

Sometimes I forget

>see /rlg/ on page 10
>bump
it's just a part of my daily routine now, like feeding the cats or putting away the dishes.

cheers /rlg/

>>530174067

Where the fuck is the option for easy wall jumps with Wu Jian? Did they remove that? I can't find anything in the help files

does this look like a forest

>>530184954
is this goatse

>>530184954
no it looks like a meadow or a field, triple the density of trees for a forest

How bout them roguelikes?

Why did like 20 gun stores spawn around me.

>>530217014
how the hell are you supposed to read this with all these ugly tiles around

This is what slavs want to destroy.

What start scenario should I do for my martial arts or swordsman run of CDDA? Choosing where/how the game starts is probably the single hardest choice for me desu

>>530231381
really doesn't matter at all anymore other than for roleplay. even starting as a martial artist barely matters because you find like 20 martial art manuals per library now. I had every sword based style after looting one.

Kind of insane how their idea of a more realistic solution for martial arts was to increase the availability of combat manuals to the point of being completely trivial, instead of just making fighting styles exclusive to character creation.

>>530233342
a classic

>>530233342
Paying to be on /rlg/ is unhinged incel behavior.

>>530233342
I can kind of get the appeal but even if I hypothetically wanted to do this surely it's cheaper than $150/hour to find somebody willing to let you rent out a shitty pool (which clearly isn't disqualifying) or just go to one of those places with sensory deprivation tanks

>>530249397
sensory deprivation tanks are way smaller though.

im never going to beat dcss

>>530233270
>instead of just making fighting styles exclusive to character creation
That would be incredibly gay design choice in a sandbox game. That said, the whole martial art system should probably be redesigned from the ground up.

>>529272463 (OP)
Do horses work for transportation these days in CDDA, or am I still forced to build a whole ass wagon if I want to use horse power? Last time I tried, a nearly naked character was just barely able to mount on a horse

>>530261747
want critique or want to bitch about it?

>>530261747
just o tab

God FE is so strong, just faulted again but literally every time I die it's blowing myself up. I've literally gotten 2 runes every time I found early rF+. It gives such a sense of invincibility when you just delete entire hordes or detonate elites before they can even walk across the room to hit you.
Most powerful starting book by far, can easily get all the way through lair without anything else. And if you DO get anything that combos with it like ignite-poison+toxic glare you're basically invincible.

>>530267958
no i'v received plenty of advice from these threads and elsewhere, i'm aware of what I need to do at this point but my luck and skill always come up short. I'll keep going at it. I love the game but my patience always starts to wane and I get lazy when I should be most vigilant.

Thanks though.

>>530268934
my response was going to be "Ok then, what do you need to do, according to you?"
the goal there being that, by putting it into words, you can then look at what you said and make sure it makes sense

But you already said what you think it is, so GL

So do I play BN or TLG?
And thoughts on Stats through Skills? Seems just too good, but zero stat increase seems too tough. I'm somewhat familiar with the game, but don't want to fuck up my run before it even starts

12/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, fiery

died to miasma from the "dark" pan lord, after having killed him, because I was in brezerk and couldn't drink curing.
now I know, use a scroll of poison first

Was minutes away from downing a bunch of mutation pots and living on in death form. Already had max physical skills.

>>530204735
nah
>>530206226
well I can't really make it more dense without making it entirely a forest
here's a map view of those 32x32 cells
3 out of 10 tiles are forest ones

>Your foot feels cold.
>Your foot feels cold.
>Your foot feels cold.
>Your foot feels cold.
>Your foot feels cold.
Average UnReal World midwinter experience (unless you get your hands on woollen socks or super high quality fur)

Live

What martial arts are the cool kids using these days in CDDA?
>tfw that really nice wiki with quick overviews of the different MAs got nuked

arelgee ... if I live through this week ... imma gonna so you something big ... like REAL roguelike big

>>530296439
what part of the game are you in?
unless they've significantly changed it from BN:
eskrima is really good early and stays good but requires some thought if you want to kill kevlar hulks with it
combat knives are very easy to find and work great with it
quarterstaves let you kill hulks but are either huge and a pain to lug around or very fragile

barbaran montante is amazing but requires a longsword, which isn't easy to get

banger
https://youtu.be/LQTaZbGHcek

>>530262190
>That would be incredibly gay design choice in a sandbox game.
you could say that about anything, the fact is that there are already plenty of character values that are essentially baked in at character creation. most notably the base stats, a base 5 strength character will never achieve the same amount of strength as a base 10 character no matter how ridiculous your mutation and cbm build is at late game, never mind the fact that you spend 98% of the game with a 5 point strength advantage anyway in that scenario.

If they insist on martial arts continuing to exist in their current form then baking them into character creation is the only way that makes sense to implement them. Learning them from a manual is retarded on its face logically, but ignoring that it still makes for shitty gameplay.
Either you have manuals be rare meaning you have to spend literally 10+ hours roaming the map hoping to find dojos in towns and cities that are otherwise totally useless to you like before, or you make manuals common like they have now where you effectively know every single fighting style by default because you can get every manual in a matter of days or weeks by going to libraries. At which point martial arts stop being an important aspect of your specific build and instead become yet another layer of micromanaging in combat you need to do, making sure you have the correct fighting style set for every encounter.

>>530297741
>unless they've significantly changed it from BN:
They have, they reworked how stuns function entirely, i.e. they are useless against zombies, and nerfed combat knives, and in fact combat knives don't even exist anymore they were changed into bayonets.

Conversely finding weapons that work with fighting styles is much easier than it was in the older game that BN is based on, they increased the amount of weapons that work with each fighting style by a lot, so it's pretty easy to find a weapon that works with basically every style.

Is there anything wrong with just drawing a line to every object near the player and checking if anything is in the way and if not drawing the object.

>>530300694
drawing a line to an object is really hard

>>530300694
I do it and it's fine
the game is turn based after all

>>530300694
Not fundamentally, though you should keep in mind that this is a very old problem and a lot of people have solved it before. If you come up with a bad raycasting algorithm because you couldn't be arsed to read articles on previous work done on it, you're going to look like a retard.

>>530313135
Don't be rude.

Alright ToMEfriends, Made it to Tier 3 with a Writhing One again. But I'm not sure what order to take the dungeons. It says on the wiki the order becomes more fluid at T3, but I don't know enough about the dungeons to make my own order. Tempest Peak, the first one on the wiki's list, killed my last writhing one, although this one feels stronger because I invested heavily into tentacles. Do I still start with tempest peak despite how scary Urkis is and the inability to leave until I kill him? Do I do Temporal Rift right after even though it says its dangerous for melee classes? Do I do Lake of Nur first to gain access to the Shertul Fortress so I can stop worrying about my encumbrance, despite it being a bit lower on the list? Any advice helps.

>>530330046
On normal difficulty dungeon order doesn't really matter, just play well.
To fight urkis you'll want a torque of mindblast for silence and some escape tools like a teleport rune and movement infusion. You can actually leave the floor by using the rod of recall, enter urkis's floor as soon as it's unlocked and come back later and it will still be a level 15 area. That's only really needed on nightmare though
If you want to really over prepare have a pickaxe in inventory and dig zigzagging tunnels. When you and the boss are in melee range, moving to the next part of the tunnel gets you out of line of sight, forcing the boss to use its turn to move. With a long enough tunnel you can get all your cooldowns back, boost movement speed or teleport to get away, heal up, and try the fight again. The boss of dreadfell is probably the hardest mandatory fight in the game so I do that every run for him
The reward for killing urkis is a rune that removes the enemy's magical buffs, and all the important story bosses are mages
I just skip temporal rift every run, you have to fight twin bosses in a wide open area with only the starting hallway as cover if you can lure just one of them there, it's very rng

>>530330046
I never really had issues with urkis or the rift so I'm not sure what to say, maybe bring an extra shatter affliction to dispel hurricane if you can. Check the shops for their level 20 restock to get more HP gear/better inscriptions if you haven't already. Sometimes (very rarely) derth gem store sells quartz that you can craft into a 30% stun res ring at the mage town.

>>530327903
>if you fuck up, you'll look dumb
>wow rude

>>530300306
>Learning them from a manual is retarded on its face logically
What? People teaching themselves martial arts from manuals already happens irl. Sure it takes longer than a few hours with the book, but it's not some inconceivable feat.

Well I'm glad I did Bearscape first, this will certainly help with Urkis

>>530337904
>but it's not some inconceivable feat.
It's pretty inconceivable, yeah. Reading a book for a few hours is not going to teach you a martial art. And realistically you aren't going to learn a martial art without countless hours of live practice and coaching and competition with other practitioners.
That's like saying you can learn how to hit baseballs on a competitive level by reading a book. It doesn't work like that, even if you have a scientific understanding of how to hit baseballs, it's fundamentally a physical, athletic skill that cannot be acquired without relentless practice.

But that isn't even my main point, I don't care too much about realism unless it's really egregious, the bigger issue is that the manual learning gameplay is dogshit for the reasons I described.

>>530339238
Lets say that you have an accomplished fighter. He's been punching things for most of his life. His unarmed skill, one might say, is maxed out. Maybe he even already knows judo.

Could he learn Taekwondo from a manual? Could he take the ideas in the manual and then apply them to a hoard of zombies until he gets more skill at the art?

>>530339805
That's somewhat similar to how I would prefer they make it work. I think that if you have more than say 4 in melee or unarmed at character creation it should then allow you to pick a fighting style to start with, and if you have less that that or 0 you can only ever get brawling. It's really not even much of a nerf since brawling is one of the better fighting styles.
The opportunity cost there for characters that don't start with at least 4 is no different than the opportunity cost of not picking any of the good starting traits so I can't agree with any complaints about it not being "sandbox" enough. Quick alone is like 10x more powerful than any fighting style. And it gives you a clear and intuitive way to obtain and utilize whatever specific fighting style you are building for from day one.

They're eventually going to remove martial arts from CDDA because it's actually fun. And fun things are simply not allowed.

>>530340759
Martial arts as they are really aren't particularly fun, the whole system is kind of a mess. They haven't been the kind of dumb fun you are talking about for quite a while, since they nerfed unarmed in general whenever that was.

More than half of the styles just suck outright and will never be used if you know what you're doing, but it's difficult to know that with how difficult to understand the descriptions are for each art. Once you learn though there's only like, 2-3 styles you will ever use and realistically it will be montante 98% of the time even then solely for the armor penetration.

>>530341531
is barbaran montante still cracked

>>530342039
It gives you more armor penetration than most armor penetrating rifle rounds, and with hydraulic muscles it gives your melee hits more armor penetration than literal explosives.
That alone is enough to make it the best martial art in almost every case, its only shortcoming is a lack of a grab break, but you can always just switch to brawling for that if need be.

>>530342039
>>530342414
In fact it's even better now than it was before since they added way more weapons you can use with it, including katanas for whatever reason. The only one handed sword that can be used with montante.

Let's say I want to use my bare hands. Which martial art is the best? Krav maga? Muay thai?

>>530345565
I don't know dude I don't play DDA
in BN it's karate or judo for offense and defense respectively

>>530345565
In DDA? they nerfed unarmed damage so hard that it's a waste of time to use unarmed for actually killing things, so the best unarmed style is aikido since it's basically purely defensive.
In BN it's one of the animal kung fus probably because those were the classic way to break the game with overpowered unarmed back in the day.

>>530345857
ah right yeah the animals
I had good luck with Dragon on my intelligence character

>>530345565
Not Krav Maga. It's all right, but its main benefit is that you can use it with a combat knife, i.e. not bare hands.
Last I made an unarmed character, I used Dragon Kung Fu, and that was pretty good. Just don't dump int.

How do people play BN when it doesn't have pockets? Also, does BN even have the MoM or bombastic perks mod? CDDA devs may be faggots, but I can't imagine not having those features.

>>530345565
For BN, Crane is pretty fun on a high dex character.
>>530348184
Have a (you) for your effort.

I'm going to do sparky blood bird and big blood bro till I ascend, damnit.

Today I played a roguelike.

Just got my first ever rune in dcss. I’ll always remember this.

>>530359620
well, which one

How is shadowed

>>530363380
requires money

>>530363205
Shoal. Went to spider nest to get my second and died on the 4th floor after a malevolent force marked me and 800 spiders rushed me. Ended up being my highest scoring run so far though

>>530363996
Shoals is a ridiculous pain in the ass for any character and I don't know how you finished it first.

>>530364720
I was Minotaur berserker so playing on babby mode to be fair

>>530261747
we had someone a few threads ago who beat it in one week of playing

>>530249397
anon, this man is a pervert and wants to bathe in shit
its not about the "reflection" or the sensory deprviation
he's a scat fetishist
get it now?

>>530367691
he's lying to demoralize

>>530372882
Or he's telling the truth to motivate you

>>530367691
that's me and I had already beat brogue and nethack many times so it wasn't hard to figure out dcss, got 15 rune the week after also

looks like tlg added mechanized policeman, love starting with a motorbike and spotting

>>530368679
I believe in his heart

>>530374697
So what are they, robot police bots?

>>529540831
What about the FIRST Rift Wizard THOUGH? Not many people are able to beat that one

>>530410530
first rift wizard is very easy, you just need some overhead time to experiment with the spells a bit first, but figuring out good spells from bad spells is very easy

>>530410605
Did you beat it?

>>530410783
I beat all of the challenge runs, which were the hard part
The base game is trivial to get 100% winrate on.
Posted a few 1-spell run here last year.

I think what makes a Roguelike exciting is the mcguffin - you want to descend the dungeons of Nethack not to make loot or whatever, you want it for the Amulet of Yendor and to appease your god. If a roguelike presents itself from the get go as a "game" instead of an adventure I lose all interest.

>>530410879
Oh so give me some tips I'm stuck and only reached the 17th realm at most with an ice build - stun passives, ice spells etc. - almost every run I also bought the initial necro spell and its upgrade that gives 1 more damage permanently.

>>530411034
The easiest elements in the game are lightning and fire, because they have these "Redeal fire/lightning damage as X". In RW1 the redealt damage is calculated before resistances, meaning you can kill fire immune if you have a skill that redeals damage as arcane for example.
The most important resource in the game is the mana potion, so carefully choose your realm with that in mind, just estimate how many pots you need to clear. You should _not_ have immunity issue with fire and lightning, but if you use other tools you have to triple check before entering a portal.
For leveling, you want 1-2 point in a lvl 1 ability. I say 2 because sometimes you can get to floor 4-5 with lvl 1 spell and upgraded capacity and it can save you 1-2 mana potions.
Shrines are _not_ crucial for winning RW1 main campaign, don't get baited into losing mana potions.
The best damage reduction in the game is to choose a long range skill (range upgrade, lightning spell) and sit in a corner while you blast enemies. You don't need a lot of max HP for this.
After the first 5 floors focus on 1 main damage skill. Learn the skill, preferably learn any capacity increase, then save for any Redeal damage skill and mastery skill that increases capacity. They make your mana pots better. Learn 1 teleport skill.
What you level with after this is up to you, all are cosmetic. But if you have issue with Mordred, learn a few teleport skills and pick up loot as he rerolls floors.

>>530411501
What about passives? The game for me feels like I never have skillpoints enough, like I'm running against the clock starving

>>530411801
The "Redeal" I'm talking about are the passives. Those are the most important ones. Second most important ones are the 7SP ones that increases your school (like lightning lord)

Lightning also has a bunch of crazy good passives, such as the one that leaves lightning cloud and the one that gives you +4 lightning damage whenver you cast a lightning spell.
When you have the full lightning passive package (redeal skills, lightning cloud generation, +4 damage per cast) what you do is to cast lightning bolt into empty space for 5-10 times before stepping into a portal, then cast Chain Lightning 1 and you clear an entire floor with 1 cast (lol).

The game is very imbalanced if you want to abuse it but once you start doing challenges it feels "fair" since you start using bad skills.

>skill point issue
The progression is typically quite slow, but you don't want to spread out too much.
If you want to kick start a lightning build, start with either Lightning Bolt or Fireball (the latter helps with immunity early on), then learn Chain Lightning, but don't use it until you have capacity upgrade. Upgrade capacity of you lvl 1 ability then clear the first few floors.
Ideally the next upgrade should be lightning lord (I usually try to get this before drinking a mana pot to refill) then aim for 1 redeal skill, then learn blink for defense.
The rest of the passives will be learnt as you hit mordred.

Castlevania: The Roguelike.

>>530412134
Nice. I will try a lightning build

>>530390420
Now now, that's not true.
It belongs below in the archive under page 11.

Does the Ki Strike trait in CDDA make unarmed martial arts OP, or does it actually even the playing field when compared to melee? I want to do an unarmed "Nanomachines Son" meme playthrough with CBMs and Mind over Matter, but it's also no fun if the trait makes everything a cakewalk.

>>530353715
>11k life
>killed by a wasp

>>530400202
its just a starting profession. cop on a motorbike with slight skill and item changes. Bikes are great for their maneuverability and shooting freely. One of the most useful things you can start with.

>>530423756
Bike + molotov cocktail is enough to kill literally almost anything in the game, including clearing entire cities.

>>530417180
Just play BN dude, unarmed is so fucking nerfed in DDA

Roguelikes that make you feel like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70eU840lc38

>>530424434
NTA but what does BN do that DDA doesn't other than remove pockets, change proficiencies and weariness? All I ever see about BN is that it removes things from DDA. What does it add?

>>530426474
BN is like what DDA was around like, 8 years ago that they then added new content to. It's not just removed things, it's almost a completely different game with how differently it plays.

>>530426215
Nethack

>>530426474
Essentially every single aspect of the game has been tuned differently over time, from how much low levels of encumbrance effect dodging to how quickly time passes to how much damage vehicle parts take from collisions to recipes.

>>530434448
Is that why I still get my ass kicked even with low encumbrance?

>>530437553
maybe. it should tell you what the encumbrance is doing if you scroll over it. In bn it mattered a lot more for speed and dodging.

What is the /rlg/ consensus best roguelikes? I've only ever played Isaac, Gungeon, ROR2, Hades and Nightreign if you count that. Really enjoyed them all except for nightreign

>>530440157
Balatro.

>>530440157
Against the Storm

>>530440157
Mono-I mean Star of Providence is the best one for me

>>530442275
Based.

>>530440157

The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall
Diablo 2 hardcore mode

>>530441152
For me the one thing marring Balatro is that it does the annoying thing every other roguelite does where you need to finish dozens of runs before you even have access to all of the content. At least traditional roguelikes are upfront about being huge timesinks

>>530452335
Balatro has an unlock all button. progression grinding is optional.

>>530452335
I don't mind the unlocks if done well. Take Desktop Dungeons. That has unlocks and still a pretty good roguelike.

>>530440157
Best?
Dungeon Crawl/DCSS
Angband+variants
Brogue
Moria/UMoria
Sil+variants
Nethack for legacy reasons.
Desktop Dungeons.
ToME

Desktop Dungeons, Crawl/DCSS, Brogue, and ToME being the most beginner friendly of the roguelikes if you wanna get into those. Which you might want to if you're coming off games like BoI and other roguelite type games.

>>530390420
yeah

>>530440157
some ancient Dungeon Crawl version

TLG changelog is very interesting. Lots of stuff I agree with happening including lots of item debloat and even removing fungaloids.

>>530472761
>removing fungaloids
the awfulness of fungaloids is a core part of the cataclysm experience
how else are you supposed to experience getting woken up in the middle of the night barfing gray goo all over the floor and all your limbs spontaneously exploding

>>530472926
They didn't remove fungals entirely, just the fungaloids that ruin your map like a cancer. They are apparently keeping the fungals as a faction and fungal locations like blooms and towers to be reworked into a less annoying enemy faction. That's exactly the kind of implementation I would like, and basically everything they are changing aligns with my preferences perfectly. Kind of unbelievable.

>>530473217
ah yeah, the combination exponential growth and ambient map spawns of fungaloids are bad
I don't mind the exponential growth where it keeps expandings its creep but it needs to be limited somehow so that you can burn it out or such

lighting fungal beds on fire is great fun, I highly recommend it

>>530473375
yeah burning them was my go to in the past, but it's complicated by the fact that fires don't work outside the reality bubble. So I would end up parking my car 2 tiles away from the fire I started to maximize bubble range and then read books in the cab until the fire finished.
The same tactic I used to burn car paths through forests actually.

>>530473603
yeah, you need to walk behind the fire as it burns to keep pushing the reality bubble forwards
luckily, the fungal creep doesn't expand outside of the reality bubble either

>>530472761
Nah, its DDA mentality but unrestricted.
They removed BB/Paintball guns training shooting skills, removed power armor, gutted Hub01 with plans to remove it, and removing any reference to xedra to move away from sci-fi.

>>530474314
They said they are reworking power armor into a new thing entirely, some kind of pseudo-vehicle, I'm not against it and will wait and see. I basically never got power armor anyway so meh. They also only got rid of the items and NPCs in the hub building because it was easily exploited and didn't make any sense anyway based on what the faction is supposed to be. In fact I think they said they are leaning into the government conspiracy/black mesa shit instead of away from it.

As for paintball guns, who cares. It's insanely easy to train gun skills anyway. I would be fine with them removing paintball guns entirely.

>>530474314
its an awful lot of nerfs, but the upside of swapping character control, even over the radio, means more strategic power and ability to compensate for build weaknesses. And there's still a little hope she'll tone down additive pain and morale debuff stacking.

>>530472761
What game is TLG?

>>530477015
new cataclysm fork, the last generation

>>530420172
to be fair, it is probably a wasp the size of a car. And it inflicts freeze on hit. The bane of speed builds.

>>529656850
GOOD post

>>530477195
Thanks. I'll check it out. I only knew of DDA and BN.

>>530477231
>woo i'm a speed build gonna 1 shot everything in the game
>wait i got hit one time by the final boss and now i have 300 freeze stacks on me?
>back down to 5 speed

>The wizard explodes violently!
>You blow up the wizard!
I love when this happens

>>530478930
It's more poorly choosing my opponents. Not every king of many colors inflicts cold.

Build works well after 1 game turn and no freeze. But that's it. It won't do well in the path of dust. Or at least, it won't be consistent.

>>530480894
I definitely have had some builds where I just prayed to get a beatable final boss. The status effects from the different king of many colors variants can totally fuck you, especially if your build regen tanks everything else in the game.

>>529995842
nice, anon. One little optimization you can do is to not clear slime and just dive it. Your just wasting potions of mutations for almost no gain. Especially if you want to do extended, it makes sense not to waste them

>Lair 5: Molten gargoyles and general fire vault (I don't have rF+)
>D10: Fire Giant and Psyche. All stairs are in a vault in the middle, haven't found them yet
>orc not found yet
all my options are blocked. My character is a vinestalker of usk.
I think I'll try snake one and see how long I survive. Don't have rElec either, hopefully my wands can take care of the electrical snakes

>>530481441
I'm not losing potions of mutations on slime, because I'm investing in throwing and okawaru, which means they die from a silver jav the moment they come on screen, most of the time.

I'm clearing vault 4, skipping vault 5, and doing slime because it's less likely to kill me. Vault 5 is pretty much insane. Even once you've got fullly enchanted armor and high skills and willpower, that place still minimizes your control a lot.

>>530483239
I think there are 2 strategies for vaults 5. Immolation is self-explanatory, but only viable if you have some rF+. Otherwise you want to go down with teleport and haste+might already queued and tp until you get to a relatively safe spot and stabilize.But yeah, it's probably the worst 3rd rune.

>>530482963
I assembled a team of trashmob with charming wand to kill the fire giant.
now in D:11, uskayaw line pass over water to get into a safe spot and scroll of noise, which trivialize the vault. When stuff like this works, it's the most fun

>>530478930
This is why the strongest build is a 2 element build that can float points in case you need to skill in a counter-counter if the boss counters you.

>>530485661
I just had a good run as uskayaw but I fell down a pit into a bunch of ugly things and then made a bunch more bad decisions

>lmao just play BN
Maybe if it had the same mods available.

>>530490423
fun god
but it really baits you to overextend

>heavy quick blade
.... is this thing busted or stupid?

>Adds +80% base damage, but take 50% longer to swing

I just one-shotted TRJ with might and silver javelins. I think Uskaway pain bonded everyone to make the jav deal multiple dmg to everyone

>>530496053

>>530495125
Stupid. It multiplies your base damage that you have very low amounts of. You want flat added damage brands like electricity and distortion.

16 scrolls of teleport for a trove
do you pay?

>>530496783
yes because i exclusively play formicid these days for some reason

>>530496261
>>529732920
>I FINALLY got silver javelins and max throwing in zot 5. That shit SLAPS fire orbs, probably through a meatshield.
I got some throwing after this and it really payed off in Zot. Really cleared the floor with some slaying

Cogmind lore be like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He1TntAK2fs

>>530494537
I was playing lava orc on Kimchi fork and the two went really well together. Too bad so much sweet content had to get removed for no reason

driving around my motorbike in tlg and seeing headless horrors, flesh raptors, and even a zombie necromancer day one hour one. a bit much perhaps?

Does Bright Nights have something like DDA's Bombastic Perks or Mind over Matter? DDA devs are massive faggots, but I really like these offshoot mods

>>530512178
there's a psychiclysm mod in this you could try
https://github.com/Zlorthishen/BrightNights-Structured-Kenan-Modpack

>>530500340
Woah, nice work anon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3X61zDcu4s

minqmale go wake darkgod to work on tome4 you lazy tranny

>>530504025
I don't get it
I've played but didn't get very far, I know there's a faction called Zion, is it the ultimate evil in game?

>>529272463 (OP)
>CDDA
>12 starting strength
>bombastic perks to increase strength and buff attacks as the game goes on
>biokinetic to pump strength even higher
>possibly find the Ki Strike scroll in my adventures
>toad style
>mfw

watching the wire and honestly Baltimore is the best biblically accurate depiction of Hell I have seen on teevee
Anyway roguelikes where you are in Hell?

what the fuck is going on with DCSS trunk? apparently they are now 'experimenting' with orbs of entropy (which shoot acid and bolts of draining) and orbs of winter (which do cold damage) -- and some kind of summoning thing on zot: 5

the fuck is wrong with these tranny devs

Has there ever been a good game designed by committee?

>>530504845
It's been a really long time since Lava orcs, I think they were in .13 or something? But IIRC they got removed because their heating up mechanic was very buggy and none of the devs could develop it properly
It's one of the rare cases where removal was not because of "bloat*

>>530550221
lorcs were around for a bit between .13/.14/.15 trunk
djinns were around .13/.14 trunk
VS were introduced around .13/.14 trunk and made it into .14 proper

don't forget the snozz

This reminded me of another thing that got removed because the coding was garbage, in the past if you worshipped good gods, Zin and other two, Angels would be friendly to you depending on your faith or whatever it was called, I don't remember
IIRC DCSS had an extremely annoying angel unique, but you meet that guy very late so if you were conservative with your faith spending and at max *s, when you come across him he'd be your friend
The reason for this removal was bad code but I wonder if they thought it was bloat but just used another excuse

>>529272463 (OP)
How hard is this one really? I like roguelikes but on the easier end honestly, I'm weak

What is your opinion on the following roguelike ideas

1. Map is static but enemies are randomly generated
2. Weapons are randomly generated. i.e random stats
3. No field of view. you see everything on the screen.
4. Real time mini-games like fishing, rest of the game is turn based.

anybody else play SETr in kimchi? It's fun

Whats the usual path in dcss, I haven't played in forever. I cleared dungeon, lair, and orc, and I think I go to the lair branches next right? I don't have rpois so it would be shoals

>>530569359
I'm doing elf instead cause I'm stabbing everything anyway

>>530550738
Doesn’t feel like a roguelike. Feels like a puzzle game.

>>530545290
I grew up in Baltimore. It’s a nice city. Even the inner city parts. The nigs don’t fuck with whites as long as you leave each other alone. I’ve walked around the inner city alone plenty of times. Even smoked crack in a house probably half a mile from Hamsterdam

>>530548276
Just grind abyss for infinite exp until you have 26 shapeshifting before entering any area post-depths. It is the intended gaming experience because the new devs did not even read the manual of the game they are developing.

>>530550221
>>530550598
Interesting, I'll have to do more testing of them on kimchi. The temp mechanics have seemed to work fine so far, basically you just heat up in long combats eventually "melting" which lowers your AC and you start exploding everything adjacent to you
>>530555807
I haven't run a sludge elf yet but it's on my list, I've ran a ton of OpTm (I'm assuming you mean Tm for transmuter I don't think there is a Tr?) and some High Elves too. SE seems like an easier Op alternative for Tm because still good stealth and magic without the armor limitation.

I like WWII as much as the next guy but what actually makes Armoured Command II fun? the gameplay loop is quite literally: move your tank on a big map ; move your tank around on a smaller map while trying to pivot and fire at people.

ARCANE MIGHT IS ONLINE BABY

>>530583925
Just got revenge on Urkis (he killed my last writhing one), and without taking a single point of HP damage, although he did deplete my shield completely. Thanks to the anon who said to equip a mindblast torque.

>>530578793

what's the advantage of death form in zot?

ive done a couple 3-rune runs with a formicid fighter (with Ru, Nemelex, and Zin) over the past several weeks and never touched spellcasting or shapeshifting at all. just God abilities and evocables

>>530569359
depends on your resistances. if you have rElec and rFire, then elf 1 at the least is doable. rPois is pretty much 100% required in snakes and spider lair. recommended in swamp and shoals. can maybe do shoals then get 1 rune, then do some vault levels before V:5

It's been funny to watch the most common complaint about crawl devs here change from "nucrawl is for casuals/too easy" to "nucrawl is too hard"

>>530550607
I think it was only The Shining One who would make angels friendly but I'm not sure
yeah, Mennas was a fucking menace

>>530586428
The most common complaint has always been "they removed my favorite stuff"

>>530586404
>rPois is pretty much 100% required in snakes and spider lair
Not really. It definitely makes them easier but you can clear them with some patience if you don't have it

>>530441152
eeeeeeehhhhhh...
i personally wouldnt consider balatro a roguelike

>>530555807
I used to play SETm in 0.7 or so
>>530569359
do more dungeon imo, maybe dip a toe into vaults, then go do lair branches and elf:1 but not the finales, then do more dungeon and vaults, finish off the dungeon, then do lair branch finales, then the vestibule of hell, then vaults finale, then clear Zot, then you can do either elf finale, abyss, slime or pandemonium, then the hells

>>530586856
I don't think I'd ever go into spider without three out of rpois, see invisible, diesel defenses or clarity

>>530587356
See invisible is really only indispensable for the rune vaults and you can just finish everything but those before picking up any runes. Sometimes you can even do a level or two of Depths. Nowadays it is even possible to enter Vaults before you ever need to bother with the lair runes but that's kind of a meme since you have to get the rune to exit

>>530586428
it's more about doing major changes in every version and removing cool shit like deep dwarves and centaurs

>>530587736
what the hell is a depths
did they do something weird to vaults????

>>530587862
Depths is the branch that replaced the dungeon levels after D:15 but that happened like a millenium ago

Vaults no longer asks you to have a rune before you can enter it but you need one to exit if you enter it early

>>530588073
>asks you to have a rune before you can enter
what
>replaced the dungeon levels after D:15
that's sensible, there was always a weird difficulty spike around that point

>Japanese DDA community maintains Kenan modpack for 0.H
>They also have a huge modlist of JP only mods
Once the western DDA community collapses, the Japanese will inherit it and save the game.

>>530587765
Kind of agreed for deep dwarves but did anyone actually like centaurs? They were pigeonholed into ranged combat incredibly hard. They literally had no apts above -1 except for fighting and bows/slings. The one move you could reliably do with them was to cheese their speed to get free shots at stuff, and speed and hp are still so good in crawl that they were theoretically one of the strongest races if you didn't care about having fun

Deep Dwarves as intended were similar in being super technical to play but at least with those you could decide the extent to which you wanted to engage with that aspect of their design by worshipping Makhleb or something

>>530586254
Hypothetically:
At current, not much. Toes hityou with torment + poison summons, and fire orbs malmutate you. Death from would solve those.

Death form offers 4 resistances, which means you can more easily cover all other resistances with equipment. If there are now orbs which hit you with strong cold and acid, that means there would be orbs which hit you with fire, cold, negative, and acid. Orbs are some of the highest hit dice and highest damage enemies, meaning you can't skip out on resistances for them. Meanwhile, you might assume all of these have malamute. If they don't, that changes things.

That also means that, if you're a wizard, you have to really quickly kill these things. As they all have different elements, they would all have different resistances, meaning that zot preparation involves grabbing a much wider range of high-power offensive tools since you can't just hit them with silver/holy.

It sounds reasonable that the final area in the game would test you on all the tools you have at your disposal, but that's bullshit. This isn't the final area in the game. By the time you get here, you haven't maxed out basically anything yet unless you're skipping other skills. You literally wouldn't have the tools to do this for some characters. Silver Javelins wouldn't mind much, and holy melee users can switch out rings on the fly if they have some. Everyone else would have to skip out on zot for fear of seeing two different orb types at once, meaning they would go to hell/pandemonium/abyss/tomb without that exp. That's harder, which is an arbitrary complaint, but more importantly it violates the principal of a 3 rune run.

t. has no idea what he's talking about or how bad it actually is
speaking purely hypothetically

how do I stop tab tab tabbing after playing a lot of MiBe? I literally can't help myself.

>>530588746
You empty your pretty little head of all those other keybinds and go back into the arms of daddy MiBe

>>530585475
Ok as a reward for the quest I got the rune of dissipation, and when I get my next category point I'll have room for another inscription, my current inscriptions are blink, movement, shatter afflictions, and wild (mental). But I also want healing so I've been saving those up as well, out of the entire list of blink, movement, shatter afflictions, wild (mental), healing, and dissipation, which is the least useful? I have the wild mental there just for silence but silence is incredibly annoying because all my talents are spells.

>>530589159
understood, tabbing commencing

Coming back to DCSS after a long break. What's this funny new icon mean?

>>530591935
I think that's from a new buff gnoll shamans can cast

>>530591935
swiftness

>>530591935
That is a flying dildo

Im kobold of WJC, with a shadow scarf and 3 tiles vision, and have cleared elven halls of all life and loot and found a leather armor with rpois
I used the golden kungfu storm to clear the finale for style points even though it wasn't necessary
Next stop is spider nest

kobold of the wu tang clan

>>530588612
FYI - I am only playing trunk. They might remove the stuff I mentioned.

>>530595127
That's so obviously what they were going for that I don't get why they didn't just call it that. Mount Wudang in China is in the same tier of overused literary references as like Alice in Wonderland, which are already in the game with the vorpal brand and Gyre and Gimble

>>530588195
>Japanese DDA community
wut? that exists? what the fuck lmao

>>530589212
For magic users it's usually best to have a torque of clear mind in the tool slot for silences, especially staff using mages that can't melee
2 infusions just for mobility is common, a lot of people on the forums swear by 2 movement, you can go around corners to somewhere out of sight in under a turn while a blink can only go somewhere you can currently see.
In short probably drop wild for dissipation and keep it the rest of the game for the final boss, replace shatter afflictions with a dual status physical/x wild infusion when you find one but they are pretty rare in the age of ascendancy campaign

>>530598156
Yeah, its fairly sizeable. Though its entirely located on the 'cord.

Forgecraft seems breddy gud in early, does it fall off during midgame or is it a little busted in 0.33?

>>530609598
Part of the reason Forgecraft exists was to nerf Summoning by splitting some of its spells into different schools and arguably to both kind of nerf Conjurations while also giving an on-ramp into other schools for a Conjurations character. I don't know about the higher level spells but everything up to level 4 looks good and Spellspark Servitor probably goes crazy

>>530611924
it's pretty funny to read about these school nerfs while being a complete shitter that struggles to get any caster off their feet. the forgecraft spells are pretty fun to use as a melee in earlygame though, so I'm going to keep trying to go down that path for a bit.

>>530586254
Why wouldn't you want max unarmed combat and max shapeshifting over literally any melee weapon in the game? It's free power, baby. Train Manifold Assault too while you're at it. You won't run out of chump abyss monsters to grind, so your success only requires you to grind for it.

>The Abyss is therefore mostly safe to explore without getting permanent bad mutations.
This is one of the most dogshit changes they've made in a while. Abyss was already a TERRIBLE idea and now they're incentivizing abyss grinding even more. At least you used to be soft limited by your supply of mutation pots but now you can farm forever if your character kills fast enough. That picture of the Troll with 27 maxed in every single skill in the entire game? That could be you if you have enough hours to waste on this shit ass game.

Official done with playing formicids for a while. Finally did a FoFi with Zin. Had an easier time doing fofi of ru and nemelex. The issue with Zin is that the piety goes down too quickly when using abilities. Also can't shapeshift, use lignification, or use chaos brand weapons. Kind of a shitty god overall.

>>530622750
On Uskayaw, piety is something you earn partway through combat which secures your victory so that you don't have to use resources retreating from the remaining enemies.

On okawaru, piety is something you gain all the time and spend before combat starts so that you get unlucky less often, and so use fewer resources panicking after an ettin hits you twice. The piety is otherwise wasted, though some is turned into throwables.

On zin, piety is dollars. That means you always have it. It's always usable. And it is almost never wasted. That means you aren't incentivized to use it first and use it often, like with oka, and you aren't incentivized to spend it before it evaporates, like with uska. Instead, the whole idea is that you can put that piety anywhere across your whole run, other than the 10% tax.

So, saying his piety drops to fast, literally just means you're using it to much, or not buying enough of it.

t. barely knows shit about zin

roguelikes where you fight MechaHitler?

>>530622750
Zin is a weak god but you can always swap to a neutral god without penance. It's what I recommend any time you find an early good god.

>>530630432
WolfRL when?

roguelikes for lesbians?

>>530649867
yes

>>530649867
I'm for it

fucking windows partition raped my boot record again and I dindu nuffin this time

Anyway, happy roguelike day

No such days.

>>530588612
I think you see only one type of orb, the type of which is "spoilered" in the temple with a statue, so you can prepare adequately.

>>530622750
how does formicid feel compared to coglin? Both seem to have insane damage while one can't escape while the other is just very squishy.

Is ADOM on steam supposed to have a dogshit inventory UI, or is it just a thing with the GOG copy? Like when you're in the world it all looks nice and crips, but opening an inventory tab gets you this shitty looking ASCII tab that's really gaudy to look at.

>>530699207
>shitty looking ASCII
Sir, this is not the league of legends thread

>>530699867
Can you for post something useful? I want to play a proper graphical roguelike, I don't want half-assed ASCII UI.

>>530688897
formicids probably a bit harder in some respects because you really have few escape options. the gameplay strategy is vastly different than most other races because it's the only race that cannot use blink or teleport under any circumstances + the dig ability. if you can reliably dig "kill holes" or whatever they're called, then you will have a lot of success

>>530688897
>>530702692

i would say that formicids are likely less viable in the extended game. dont know how many times teleport or blink saved my ass in a zig or one of the hell branches

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3263330/Landmine_Princess/

>Landmine Princess is a visual novel that delivers a perfect blend of a gripping yet romantic experience for players through various gameplay mechanics, including interactive fiction, roguelike, and dating simulation.

Roguelike dating sims!!!

>>530703651
Elin already has %100 realistic dating mechanics, I don't know why we'd need an entire new game for this

>>530706852
>Elin already has %100 realistic dating mechanics
what, that mechanic where I play a game alone and still have no chance of ever having a gf? Plenty of games have that, Elin isn't special.

>>530710432
Elin is the most played roguelike on steam right now. That's pretty special.

>>530622750
Nice work, anon!

>>530699207
People have been complaining about the graphics in the ADOM steam version being bad since it came out

>>530699207
It's in Steam version as well. I don't mind that, however. I have other issues with ADOM, mainly that it has boring as fuck bump melee combat. Mage seems pretty fun though

>>529750685
To be honest Cataclysm is fine to me, for the most part. The game only turns into a slog when you get stumped and your only solution is to grind skills and spend 3 hours crafting garbage, or picking off a horde one by one. What's great is how many solutions there are to many of the game's problems. For example, zombie hordes. Normally they are a massive hurdle to overcome, but a stubborn player COULD kite and pick them off one by one with a knife spear - but that's a grueling, slow and tedious job. A crafty player might instead set a building on fire for a loud, burning distraction, try to sneak through at night, which is exciting, or try and funnel the zeds into a bunch of high-cost tiles, then throw an explosive or a molotov at them, or hell, lure the zeds away towards wildlife or a more powerful opponent, or quickly run into a house to break line of sight and keep going.
Sadly I feel like that's the most emergent thing this game has going for it lmao. Crafting is still a grindy snoozefest and Kevin is hellbent on making it worse.

Pokerogue was great! Managed to finish it for my first time with my favorite pokemons.

>>530621546
you should play online so we can spectate your ass

>>530720713
All of those solutions are totally inferior to the simple bicycle + molotov combo. Just bunch up all the zombies by running circles around them on your bike, then throw a molotov in the middle and continue running circles until every zombie is dead.
This tactic can be used to clear hordes of literally any size with near zero danger, I wiped out an entire military base with >200 zombies this way using only 2 molotov cocktails.

>>530700526
kill yourself

>>530722831
Okay that's fucked lmao. Good thing Kevin doesn't browse /rlg/. Are there more insane ways to deal with hordes?

>>530722297
why did you pick the sex pokemon repeatedly

>>530723415
I don't think you could possibly come up with a more efficient solution, you can craft like 40 molotovs on day one after finding a single car with a decent amount of fuel in it.

The best way used to be acid bombs because you didn't even need to worry about extinguishing the fire with those, but they of course removed them.

>>530723415
long sword + barbaran montante and any 100% coverage armor that doesn't suck (I recommend RM13 or light power armor but the AEP suit works too)

I've also had good luck with eskrima and a combat knife

>>530723879
that only works in BN, crowd crushing will kill you instantly if you get grabbed by 3+ zombies in DDA, and they nerfed the shit out of eskrima+combat knife and combat knives in general.

>>530724183
I don't see the problem here

>>530724251
well anon was talking about DDA presumably since his post mentioned kevin.

>>530724363
I just assumed he was impotently seething unprompted, as is our wont

>>530723701
Because I am a coomer

>>530723415
Tier 1 zombies are closer to being environmental hazards than actual enemies, because there's a lot of ways to cheese them. Even if you don't have a bike or molotovs you can just climb onto a roof and poke arbitrary amounts of zombies to death with a stick. The DDA devs just are shit at balance/have some kind of weird hateboner for melee bump combat in particular and intentionally make the player character dumber than the player in all situations where you're in direct reach of a zombie.

>>530726230
>in direct reach of a zombie
of an enemy*

Reminder that dodge still doesn't affect 90% of the projectiles in the game because the script kiddies on the DDAcord still think aimbots exist in real life.

>>530726230
>The DDA devs just are shit at balance
They are definitely shit at balance, but generic zombies are like the one enemy in the game that is actually balanced perfectly. They are supposed to be quasi-environmental enemies like you describe, that works efficiently with the game's stamina system. Enforcing the gameplay of planning out your routes and attack approaches where individual combat with zombies isn't particularly threatening, but being caught in front of a pack with low/no stamina is deadly.

All the higher tier enemies are where the balance falls apart. A billion health regen so they are unkillable without heavy weapons, inescapable grabs, flaming eyes fucking you from a million tiles away. Until they nerfed them very recently like 2 weeks ago star vampires were the most bullshit enemy in the game. They are invisible and attack via draining your blood, and their blood draining attack until the nerf bypassed all armor making it basically inescapable.

>>530710898
that'd be spelunky and isaac though.

Wu Tang Kobold: cleared spider, shoals, vaults
Next, depths, then uuuh slime I guess? I don't want to think about hell or pan yet, maybe I will just ignore it entirely
Also I'm playing on phone, it's not that bad desu

what's the best starting class / race in TOME4? i wanna actually get into the game, not necessarily "win"

>>530728358
Not a roguelike

>>530727068
They're badly balanced because they're a threat to melee fighters in particular and an afterthought to every other gimmick and playstyle in the game, and melee does not gain some kind of merit against non-basic zombies to make up for that. As I mentioned, the devs have a weird hateboner for bump combat and characters/mechanics that are meant to be good at bump combat.

>>530732519
I think you are looking at the game in the wrong way. Guns are inherently more powerful than melee, they are intended to be balanced by low ammo availability. The purpose of melee is for fighting low priority enemies that aren't worth wasting valuable ammo on.
What you are saying only makes sense if you are trying to approach the game in the same way as you would a fantasy game with warriors and rangers, you can rigidly play the game with only one playstyle as a challenge but the intended method is to use both melee and firearms.

>>530732906
Except melee can't serve the very purpose you stated because it's worse at that than literally any other gimmick and playstyle because it can't even harmlessly take down enemies that we have already agreed on being effectively harmless.

And don't even bother making a realismfag argument, at this point everyone knows that the devs gladly prioritize reality warping that suits their ends over establishing basic realities like a 3 digit IQ person with a bat length weapon has no reason to ever step into the threat area of a slow, unarmed opponent and that they'd know to hit a soldier zombie in the 80% of its body that isn't armored instead of the fucking helmet and chest plate.

Melee combat is dogshit because of spite and retardation and laziness, not any other reason.

>>530734231
>Except melee can't serve the very purpose you stated because it's worse at that than literally any other gimmick and playstyle
What other gimmicks or playstyles are you talking about here? Your only options are pretty much melee and guns. Unless you are talking about late game mutation shit or running them over with cars you either hit them or shoot them. And hitting them does work fine for the purposes of preserving ammo, it's literally the form of combat you will spend more time engaging in than everything else combined. By the end of every character I have of the thousands of enemies killed probably >80% of them were killed by melee.

>>530731757
>I alone can decide what a roguelike is and isn't not the hundreds of thousands of people playing said roguelikes
ok boomie

>>530734691
Not a roguelike

Is STUMBLES still just free action movement for almost every tier 1 zombie that randomly gives them double turns?

>>530734613
I specified bump combat because that's the one strategy where you stand still like a runescape character and roll dice against enemies because the devs are too retarded to conceptualize a person with a weapon several feet long fighting an unarmed aggressor in any other way or abstract it as such. Crawl onto a roof and use a stick and you become invincible. Light one fire and you become invincible. Ride around on a tricycle with a stick and you become invincible. Use guns and you become invincible, because enemies still drop gun and ammo backpacks at comical rates. Have a car and you become invincible. Have 10 dodge 10 melee and you still die to 90% of the shit in the game if you make the misplay of thinking bump combat is a game mechanic. It's retarded game design.

>>530736471
Oh, and throw sticks and stones and you become invincible as well. Make a bow or crossbow and you become invincible as well.

>>530736471
>Have 10 dodge 10 melee and you still die to 90% of the shit in the game
If you have any decent amount of armor at all you are effectively immune to damage from basic zombies, so if you are gonna be histrionic about every other way to play the game you might as well be consistent.

>>530732906
if we're talking regular CDDA, ammo and guns haven't been scarce for a long time
one gunstore can net half a dozen okay guns and thousands of ammo, which can be exchanged with the bullet bank dude if needed
and unless they just recently changed it, you can buy fully loaded magazines from Hub 01 with the infinite money you get from NRE printouts
so it really isn't any trouble at all to dump a mag or two wasting regular zombies

>>530736471
>>530736654
>a person with a weapon several feet long fighting an unarmed aggressor in any other way
and that isn't even true anyway lmao, there are plenty of weapons capable of reach attacks.

It sounds to me like you are just asshurt that you can't stack one stat and use animal kung fu to explode everything in the game like you could back in the day.

>if we're talking regular CDDA, ammo and guns haven't been scarce for a long time
Ammo is way more plentiful now, but even if you loot a military bunker with its >5000 M855 rounds you would still blow through that pretty fast if you waste it on mowing down every horde of basic zombies you come across. The availability of thousands of rounds of ammo only significantly affects dungeon like locations like labs where they are usually populated with lower numbers of higher tier enemies that still die to guns quite easily.

They did indirectly nerf ammo availability somewhat recently by reworking FEMA camps however. Before FEMA camps would reliably net you >3000 M855 rounds for very little risk. So the only good way to find thousands of rounds of ammo at a time are the much rarer military installations.

>>530736654
Does armor keep you from being grabbed and fatigued? Because almost every single alternative strategy I mentioned does exactly that. Cataclysm was and is not designed through its baseline mechanics to be the epic reddit "melee is a punishment mechanic" game that you're trying to present it as, and the developers have not done the work for it to function as such in a way that can be called remotely sensible. Other options are too available and too easy for bump melee to be the shitheap that it is. It's literally just there so midwits think they're intelligent for using the intentionally overpowered option over the intentionally underpowered option.

>>530737348
>Does armor keep you from being grabbed and fatigued?
With a decent weapon you can kill dozens of zombies before needing to regain stamina. Reinforcing my interpretation of you here
>It sounds to me like you are just asshurt that you can't stack one stat and use animal kung fu to explode everything in the game like you could back in the day.

>>530737293
Do baseball bats get reach attacks? If you had to fend off a slow moving zombie with a baseball bat, do you see yourself walking into hugging range of said zombie to hit it with said baseball bat?

>Ammo is way more plentiful now, but even if you loot a military bunker with its >5000 M855 rounds you would still blow through that pretty fast if you waste it on mowing down every horde of basic zombies you come across.
There's no reason to use military ammo on basic zombies when basic zombies already die incredibly easily to the 9mm ammo that basic zombies drop in droves.

>>530737586
>didn't answer the question
That's a "no", then. Nice strawman, retard. Concession accepted. You're also using greentext wrong. Retarded discord newfag.

>>530737696
>Do baseball bats get reach attacks?
Long pointy sticks do, you know the weapon you can craft in 10 minutes immediately after spawning into a game with the only tool required being a sharp rock.
>reee baseball bats should have reach attacks
Sounds like you are pulling the realism autism now.

>>530737879
>That's a "no", then.
It isn't, the point is that melee attacks consuming a trivial amount of stamina per kill is not some overbearing detriment that ruins the function of melee as a whole. You can stop being an embarrassing histrionic clown any time now btw.

>>530737916
So baseball bats don't get reach attacks, nor do they get some kind of abstract advantage to make up for the fact that they should de facto get reach advantage. Why are you being such a disingenuous seething faggot? They talk you into taking HRT already? Is that why your IQ is so low?

Why do people defend CDDA? The devs obviously detest the fanbase and see the game as their personal vanity project.

>>530738243
>So baseball bats don't get reach attacks,
No they don't, and just because one particular weapon doesn't have reach attacks doesn't mean that melee as a whole is useless lmao. You are literally going full realism autist here I hope you can recognize.
You barely ever use reach attack weapons past the first few days anyway because in under a week you should have armor good enough to be immune to regular zombie attacks at which point many other weapons are more efficient.

>>530738386
There's no shortage of things in the game to criticize, I could give you a very long list myself. But being an embarrassing crybaby jackass over every little thing even when that thing is totally defensible is just stupid and obnoxious.

>>530738386
Kevin runs the community like a cult so it's no surprise that his players act like one.

Get that DAMAGE up in here

>>530738747
Bump combat is both dogshit and unealistic. It's so dogshit that it manages to become unrealistic through how dogshit it is. I'm not the one that claimed you have to be in a high fantasy game to have non dogshit bump combat. Again, why are you seething so hard over the fact that DDA's melee combat is dogshit when the game's own devs would gladly brag that melee is dogshit in their game?

>>530739059
It isn't dogshit however, it fulfills it's role in the game perfectly fine, I have many characters with dozens or hundreds of hours each that all used melee extensively for exactly the useful task it is designed for.

Just because the game isn't built to accommodate your fantasy of playing conan the barbarian in the zombie apocalypse does not mean that the combat mechanics are broken.

>>530738747
Why should an adult man with a baseball bat or similar sized improvised weapon need armor to reliably kill a slow moving, low intelligence, adult sized humanoid that's unarmed? In gameplay terms, why should melee need armor to do so when every single other means of killing the zombie, like digging a fucking hole, does not need it?

>>530739356
>Why should an adult man with a baseball bat or similar sized improvised weapon need armor to reliably kill a slow moving, low intelligence, adult sized humanoid that's unarmed?
You don't actually need that, you can reliably kill zombies naked just fine by luring them onto slow terrain. You only need armor to be effectively invincible to zombies, which was your complaint. That you aren't literally invincible in basic melee combat.

>every single other means of killing the zombie, like digging a fucking hole, does not need it?
Digging a hole takes hours of in game time to accomplish, and then a ton of your own real life time to actually kill them in by constantly trying to run them in the hole. Not exactly the most effective way to play the game. I don't know about you, but I would rather use melee than that lmao.

>>530739348
I didn't know you needed to be conan the barbarian to safely kill with a bat something that a 4 in every stat character with a stick can poke to death from any high surface.

>>530737293
just checked my game, from one gunstore I got 3k 9mm, 500 M855, and 1k .223, and some other rounds I don't have guns for
that's from one gunstore, I haven't bothered looting any more because I just hold tab with the national guard bayonet
so I still think you could afford to waste ammo on regular zombies, though I do agree it's better to just kill them with melee since they die so easy

>>530739943
Are you gonna complain next about how you can stab enemies through chainlink fences or prison bars? I know you are in the middle of throwing a hissy fit right now, but those situational methods of killing enemies are actually a good thing for the game because they reward planning and thinking on the player's part and are not infinitely abuseable, because to stab enemies from a roof or through a fence you need a roof or fence to do it from, and not every location in the game has those things, in fact most of them don't. So simply having the ability to use one highly specific method to easily defeat enemies does not mean that every other method in the game is invalid.

>>530739712
>That you aren't literally invincible in basic melee combat.
So a purpose built melee character needs to be 'invincible' to be able to tab down braindead simple enemies that die to literally everything else at zero effort or risk. Interesting.
>Digging a hole takes hours of in game time to accomplish
The hole kills infinite zombies and consumes 0 stamina. Fire does the same thing and takes seconds to make.
>and then a ton of your own real life time to actually kill them in by constantly trying to run them in the hole. Not exactly the most effective way to play the game. I don't know about you, but I would rather use melee than that lmao.
I didn't say traps were well designed, I said that they were better than melee. Overpowered strategies that tax the player are a hallmark of dogshit game design, which is why DDA is full of them.

>>530740280
Why would I need to be that specific? My point is that bump combat is so shit that it's worse than the available alternatives for dealing with the most basic popcorn enemies in any area but player convenience. It doesn't sound like you're even contesting the point anymore, just calling names because you're mad. DDA being so easy that you can be actively suboptimal and bump enemies to death and not have it matter a lot of the time is another issue entirely.

>>530740449
>tab down braindead simple enemies that die to literally everything else at zero effort or risk.
again, what is the everything you are talking about here. Let's look at your earlier post.
>>530736471
>Crawl onto a roof
covered that here
>>530740280
>Light one fire
You can't light fires everywhere there are plenty of places you are trying to get into and destroying them by fire kind of defeats the point. Not to mention that starting basic fires with a lighter or something similar take time to actually start.
>Use guns and you become invincible
Yes, and the intended limitations of guns is supposed to be ammo. You can complain that ammo is too plentiful and I would largely agree, but that's far from some insurmountable fundamental flaw of the game.
>Have a car/bike and you become invincible
Vehicles are extremely powerful yes, but they can only effectively be used on the surface, meaning in most of the mid-end game locations you want to loot they are unusable. And even in many surface locations they are tricky or impossible to use, like crowded city streets.

So again, your hyperbolic scenario where melee is completely useless because it can't be used to the same effect as these specific cases is pretty laughable.

>>530741062
>You can't light fires everywhere there are plenty of places you are trying to get into and destroying them by fire kind of defeats the point. Not to mention that starting basic fires with a lighter or something similar take time to actually start.
Anon's example with using 2 molotovs clearing a military base already demonstrates fire works in far more places and to far greater effectiveness than a melee capability that takes similar levels of effort to achieve. Plus the correct use of fire is to draw the enemies into it with either noise or pathing manipulation, not lighting the literal spot the enemies are in on fire.
>Yes, and the intended limitations of guns is supposed to be ammo. You can complain that ammo is too plentiful and I would largely agree, but that's far from some insurmountable fundamental flaw of the game.
It's actually a trivially fixed flaw of the game that the developers have left in place or made actively worse for a decade straight because they're retarded. You're not contradicting the original point. Making melee more useful is trivial and they simply refuse to do so because redditors think it's hardcore for melee to be intentionally underpowered and it strokes their ego to use gimmicks to kill enemies instead of a well built character to do so.
>but they can only effectively be used on the surface, meaning in most of the mid-end game locations you want to loot they are unusable. And even in many surface locations they are tricky or impossible to use, like crowded city streets.
Unless they nerfed small and foldable vehicles this simply isn't true, and again, molotov military base comparison. Plus if it's endgame you're going to be using the "intended high powered weapon", AKA guns, meaning melee is useless here anyway.

Again, why are you grasping at straws this hard when the devs themselves would gladly assert that melee is intentionally shit because they think that's what realism is?

With full survivor gear and mutations and bionics and a superalloy nodachi I can finally tab some popcorn enemies to death without getting hurt for no reason, and there's lots of popcorn enemies in the game, therefore melee is fine guys.

>>530742203
>Anon's example with using 2 molotovs clearing a military base
I made that post btw, and that method only works in open flat areas where you can turn a wide radius to huddle the zombies. So again this is caused far more from the vehicle than the weapon, using molotov cocktails on foot would only allow you to kill maybe a dozen zombies max before you are out of stamina from running.
>It's actually a trivially fixed flaw of the game that the developers have left in place or made actively worse
It's certainly a flaw, but it's still far from totally invalidating melee combat because like I said, if you used guns to kill every single enemy that you would kill with melee in a normal game you would run out of ammo quickly even with the >1000 round loot runs you can find in the game now. Not to mention the fact that the cumbersome nature of gun combat in the game makes it a hassle to use for random stragglers that you could easy kill with melee.

>Unless they nerfed small and foldable vehicles this simply isn't true
It's perfectly true. Try to do the molotov bike thing I mentioned in my earlier post inside a lab, you can't do it. Then try to do it on a jammed street, you also can't do it. I've tried it many times myself out of laziness or trying to preserve ammo, and without a wide open area it's very dangerous or outright impossible.

>>530742550
>With full survivor gear and mutations and bionics and a superalloy nodachi I can finally tab some popcorn enemies to death
Track touring suit you find in a closet + flame resistant suit you find on a firefighter zombie or firehouse + work coveralls you can find at a ton of locations gives you like 95% damage immunity from zombies.
You can find all of these things in 1-2 days right after starting a game.

>>530742735
Burning buildings make enough noise that you don't need to do the bait work yourself. The flaw does invalidate melee *bump* combat because there is more than enough ammo both from location loot and generic zombie drops to kill every zombie that doesn't die to some other cheese strategy like reach stabbing and environmental kills. Especially once you get a vehicle, like a bicycle, which is trivial enough that it can be done on the first day.

>>530743061
95% damage reduction is worse than 100% damage reduction. The game being too easy doesn't change the fact that bump melee is bad.

>>530738842
what's the best beginner TOME class / race

>>530744795
>Burning buildings make enough noise that you don't need to do the bait work yourself.
Burning buildings takes a ton of in game time to get started and then way more time to finish if you were looking to loot anything, add to that that like I said to burn buildings you need a burnable building in the first place which most places in the game don't have, especially now when they are changing many building types to concrete/brick.
>The flaw does invalidate melee *bump* combat because there is more than enough ammo both from location loot and generic zombie drops to kill every zombie that doesn't die to some other cheese strategy like reach stabbing and environmental kills.
I recently decided to clear a small town with my ammo stash because I was sitting on >20,000 rounds of M855, and clearing that one town of less than 20 houses consumed almost 2000 rounds. If you tried to do that everywhere you would run out.
>95% damage reduction is worse than 100% damage reduction.
just more bullshit sophistry, your complaint was that you supposedly can't kill basic zombies without a full endgame gear setup and then switched to crying about the fact that with literal day 1 gear you might take 5 damage after killing 20 zombies in melee.
You take so little damage from basic zombies if you don't run into a horde like a retard that I can't even comprehend why you are so asshurt about it. Are you personally offended by seeing your health bar tick down the slightest amount? I don't even pay attention to it because it all heals after sleeping for one night anyway.
Chip damage from melee combat in specifically the early game is not stopping you from doing literally anything in the game, anything. You are just complaining for the sake of complaining at this point.

>>530745690
Technically none because you have to unlock them as you play and the starter choices are quite bad (Archmage is good, but it does not have the full tree until you play a few times and unlock them)

>>530745881
archmage isnt a default class, its an easy unlock, but an unlock regardless, and needing to unlock any of its skill trees was deprecated, now they're all available as soon as you unlock the class.

>>530745690
Cornac is a great all-around race that gives you more generic points and an extra category point to play with, letting you experiment more. The really good races are unlocked in T3 dungeons minimum, and I only got to T3 after 100 hours of playtime, so you're going ot have to roll cornac for awhile (shalore is good too but its use cases are more specific). As far as classes go the best of the starter classes are probably berserker and rogue, but you're still going to die fairly early with them. Some classes that are incredibly easy to unlock and are good for beginners are Skirmisher, Summoner, and Archmage. You'll unlock Summoner on your own in your first dungeon most likely, Archmage you'll unlock by completing an easy quest that you can access from the very start, and Skirmisher, while easy to unlock, you would never find on your own, so check the wiki for Skirmisher's unlock condition.

>>530745837
The complaint was never that bump melee can't kill zombies. it was that bump melee vastly underperforms compared to alternative methods that take far less investment because the DDAcord thinks rehashing cheese strats that have existed for years is """"""""""'smart""""""""""" and that expecting a mechanic that has the direct REQUIREMENT that you stand in the attack range of the enemy to have some kind of specific merit warranting such does not.
>I recently decided to clear a small town with my ammo stash because I was sitting on >20,000 rounds of M855, and clearing that one town of less than 20 houses consumed almost 2000 rounds. If you tried to do that everywhere you would run out.
Man no wonder the game is so easy if the players are so braindead that when they hear "shoot every enemy you can't cheese" they proceed to shoot every single enemy period and still have 90% of their ammo left without doing any looting whatsoever. Then claim that guns aren't overpowered. Lmao.

Melee being inefficient at killing t1 popcorn is only the most basic example. I can easily point out how almost all the zombie evolution in the game is geared toward making them making more dangerous AT SHORT RANGE, which is only harmful to you if you try to kill them AT SHORT RANGE. What a shame the converstaion never even left day 1 zombies because the participant is too braindead to acknowledge that standing in melee range in a game where 99% of the enemies are exclusively melee attackers is, in fact, disadvantageous.

>>530747459
its just a little bit of damage dude!!! Not like the game is completely designed around a downward spiral from that or anything. Just completely disengage after and wait until all the pain and damage is recovered and all your focus is back.

>>530747459
>melee vastly underperforms compared to alternative methods
I wouldn't call taking trivial chip damage that heals in one day "vastly underperforming" lmao. There's the histrionics again.
>shoot every single enemy period and still have 90% of their ammo left without doing any looting whatsoever.
90% of my ammo that I had acquired after hours and hours of play time from looting 3 different military installations and a handful of gun stores. Clearing one small town used 10% of the ammo stash I had after all of that.
Know what that means? That it costs way more ammo to clear locations than you get back. And that's in a situation where I was insanely lucky to have two outposts and a bunker spawn in one game. Normally I see between 0 and 1 of either of those.

>What a shame the converstaion never even left day 1 zombies
It actually did, I mentioned other enemies than basic zombies here
>>530732906
>I can easily point out how almost all the zombie evolution in the game is geared toward making them making more dangerous AT SHORT RANGE
I can easily point out to you that in my post I linked, that you are not intended to kill late game end game enemies with melee or be able to kill literally everything with melee
>The purpose of melee is for fighting low priority enemies that aren't worth wasting valuable ammo on.
This isn't exactly a novel form of game design here, ever played resident evil? The purpose of melee is very clearly for killing low tier enemies for the purposes of saving ammo, NOT to 1v1 a shoggoth or a fungal tower lol.

>melee is underpowered
Sorry that's realism
>melee is unrealistically underpowered
Why are you realismfagging?
>melee is unrealistically underpowered and it's bad for the game
I use it in zero impact situations just fine reeeeee

Last hour in a nutshell.

>>530749351
Are you upset that Doom was designed with the intention that the player would primarily shoot guns and had melee as a supplemental method?

What happened in the last hour was an anon sperging out about the fact that the game isn't designed for him to play a pure warrior like you can in a fantasy RPG and that means the game is bad.

There is no shortage of things to complain about in cataclysm, complaining about the minority of things that aren't stupid just makes you look stupid.

>see small town with no gun store
>drive around it
>see small town with gun store
>shoot every single enemy in it even though I don't need to
>spend 2000 bullets
>receive >>530740227 4.5k bullets in exchange
Melee is for resource conservation :^)

melee is for fucking morons desu
>gets grabbed once

>>530750041
9mm is way lower damage and lower range than 5.56, sounds like a bad trade. The only place to get large amounts of rifle ammo is military installations.

If guns are the intended endgame weapon and most enemies are easily killed by just wearing armor or stabbing them from the roof or driving a vehicle or starting a fire then why would I build a character that's good at melee at the expense of being bad at guns? That would be giving up an developer-designed indispensable part of character power for a secondary feature.

>>530745690
>>530729510
There are stronger classes but bow archer engages with a lot of mechanics that are big in tome like applying status effects, keeping buffs up, and boosting movement speed/teleporting to get in and out of combat
Brawler also shits out damage and status effects while having a lot of passive protection, the other classes under the Warrior tab are all low tier and don't have a lot up their sleeves, partly due to lack of updates
I'd say Thalore is the race that requires the least thinking, going anti-magic simplifies your gear choice and built-in blight resistance helps against enemies that tend to have the highest raw damage. The orc corruptor you have to fight to unlock anti-magic
Krog is also good but if you're playing fair and square they're tricky to unlock

>>530750281
The only bad trade is using m855 with 12 armor piercing against a bunch of normal zombies that have 0 armor, which is why I'll use 9mm instead because I'm not a DDAtard.

>>530750518
Well one advantage would be to gain an advantage in the early game where you have little to no ammo, early game is generally the hardest before you have a good vehicle, good armor, good guns and lots of ammo so that would be a fine choice. But what do you even consider to be a "melee" build? Having high strength? Because I would argue that strength is just as beneficial for gun combat as it is for melee simply because it increases your carrying capacity and therefore increases the amount of armor you can wear and ammo you can carry. Strong back is probably a top 3 trait for that reason.
The attribute and trait system being dumb is one thing I can agree about, the way the stats work is pretty ass backwards in many ways.

>>530750518
Kevin removed point buy from the game specifically so he wouldn't have to be confronted with these kind of questions.

shit
>>530750571
>The orc corruptor you have to fight to unlock anti-magic
is hard, a real son of a bitch who might one-shot you. Have a movement infusion ready for the turn he spawns and run until he shoots, the projectile will hopefully go slow relative to you and then you have a couple turns to stun/silence/kill him.

>>530750825
the range and damage are way more important than the armor pen on 5.56. You would need like 10 to 1 9mm/5.56 for it to be an even trade imo.

I basically only use pistols for emergency weapons, submachine guns are decent but annoying to find good ones and good mags for them.

>>530630432
"Time Gentlemen, Please!"

>>530750518
you don't really have to build for using guns unless you're trying to outsnipe automated weapons and otherwise go crazy. automatic rifle fire is easy to find, easy to use, and works for most characters to solve most situations. You should be giving your character utility for the remaining situations or future potential.

so dwarf beserker or bulwark are shitty starting builds? maybe that's why i keep bouncing off