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>Are mystery dungeon games allowed in this thread?
Generally yes, most mystery dungeon games(Shiren the Wanderer, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Etrian Mystery Dungeon, etc.) can be considered roguelikes too
>Is Elin/Elona allowed?
Yes, they are roguelikes
>Is Dwarf Fortress allowed?
If it's adventure mode, yes, that could be considered a roguelike, the same can't be said about its other modes though
>FAQ
https://l.idrix.fr/J7sOv
>What to Play
https://l.idrix.fr/eYNOh
>Individual Game Pastas
https://l.idrix.fr/wXd8t
>Roguelike Archive (Collection of pretty much every free roguelike there is)
https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z
>/rlg/'s "official" Cataclysm: DDA fork
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/releases


>News
28 June 2025 - Shadow of the Wyrm v1.8.4 released - https://www.shadowofthewyrm.org/downloads.html
26 June 2025 - Gloamvault b21 released - https://store.steampowered.com/app/3460840/Gloamvault/
22 June 2025 - Steam Sky 11.0.2 released - https://thindil.itch.io/steam-sky/devlog/971350/version-1102-arrived
20 June 2025 - Overworld v2.5 released - https://redasteroidgames.com/overworld/
19 June 2025 - NLarn 0.7.7 released - https://nlarn.github.io/news/2025/06/19/release-0.7.7
18 June 2025 - Tangaria "Deeptown Era" released - https://tangaria.com/news/deeptown-era/
9 June 2025 - Coop Catacombs 1.6 released - https://aikoncwd.itch.io/coop-catacombs

>/rlg/'s shared DCSS online account
User: rlgrobin
Password: ownfault (or "robin" on Xtahua)

Roguelike Servers
https://angband.live/ (Angband and variants)

https://youtu.be/-13LUfagQhY?si=7IJA2eUmFAesOR7B

I am making a bg2 inspired roguelike
Wish me luck rlg!

Dude sex roguelike?

>>531712405
for Bright Nights I would simply walk into town and butcher every zombie I found including hulks and kevlar hulks
the only things that stopped my rampage were acid and shocker zombies if I wasn't decked out to be immune, which I typically always was which may have contributed to my durability lol
I also don't remember if Barbaran Montante was the solution to shoggoths and sludge crawlers as well. I had a solution but I don't remember if it was eskrima or barbaran montante
the longsword has better storage options, is faster, and has Parry instead of Block which makes it superior for all purposes as far as I can tell
maybe the combat chainsaws would be good lol

Punk rock like ... I'll be back

>>531805438
what does that mean? setting or ruleset or both?

>>531809928
This was Bazza once I got him properly set up. Max str build, with Medieval swordsmanship.

>>531819014
yes you can optimize the fuck out of it but I was just a dude with 10s in all stats or whatever
maybe it was 12s, I was pretty well juiced all-around without being post-thresh in anything

>>531819268
I get that, it's why I mentioned MS being broken if you build for it.

>>531819513
why would you build for anything in cataclysm, if you can't do everything then there's no point because it takes so many goddamn hours to do anything
I guess the specific mutation thresholds are unique enough and exclusive enough

Winning with Sorcerer was harder than I expected because he can't build any defense. Poison Familiar is pretty strong with willpower though, especially if you know that leveling the skill summons an extra familiar.

>>531819676
For fun I guess, I've done plenty of average joe builds, schizo builds, no guns runs, no modern shit at all runs etc
For Bazza I was doing max one stat builds. His was obviously the max str one.

>>531820564
>average Joe builds
lol, Cataclysm protagonists aren't average joes, they're ubermensch

>>531820689
You know what I mean, low stats, no OP skills, no OP traits. Obviously the ones that survived weren't average joes by the end.

>>531805438
You mean a DND RL?

Is anything but strong antibiotics useless against infection?
I ate normal antibiotics like candy but still succumbed to infection.

When you cast an evil spell on arelgee:
https://youtu.be/oLic8uyGmXs?t=91

I'll be back later

>>531830258
this is one of the one's that varies by version I think

>fight and sneak my way through city to get to hospital for blood draw quest with a few police batons
>finally get to hospital
>it's swarming with zeds
>ok gotta find centrifuge
>find the room where the console is and where it should be
>it's fucking destroyed
Ffs. I'm going to spawn it in. It wasn't nearly as hard as getting that dude's sex pants, but took way longer

>>531863359
centrifuges are all over the place in labs and there's at least one in every hospital
if that was your only hospital then yeah

>>531863573
The only other hospital I've seen was completely fucking obliterated by zombies. I don't seen to remember their destruction being this bad last time I played two years ago

>>531864747
you need to specify which version of the game you're playing

>>531865043
Experimental from a few days ago

>>531865716
you need to specify which version of which fork of the game you're playing

>>531865782
DDA of course

>>531866006
you should kill yourself

>>531866061
And why's that

>>531866390
most efficient solution to your problems

>>531866521
Nah, I got a good roll this life

I'm playing a Golem in Frog and even at level 20s I'm stacking up healing potions because the Destroyer, who is the golem race boss, will definitely take dozens of potions to beat

>>531806525
I'm 87% sure there is atleast one sort of cyberpunk/deus ex roguelike

Call me Paul Bob Page

Roguelikes for old men?

>>531872076
Nethack

>>531872076
A Quest Too Far
https://www.randomstuff.org.uk/~geoffrey/roguelikes/aquesttoofar.html

>>531872076
Tetris

>>531872076
All of them

>>531801554 (OP)
>Cataclysm The Last Generation
Alright, what the fuck happened and why is a new Cataclysm fork on steam?

>>531882051
Some eceleb from CDDA discord clique got banned for antiKevinism and made their own very special fork, or something like that

>>531885254
Is it special with features or just the same with prettier graphics?

>>531882051
Why isn't your fork? It's completely legal, and fleecing normalfags paying for games is a commendable activity.

>>531885625
The dev has boobs, that's all I can remember

>>531885254
She got fucked over, went on hiatus and when she figured she could make money off her own fork, she started kissing Kevin's ass. He's been fluffed enough to not care about her branch even though her people are more hostile towards Kevin than the BN folks.

>>531885625
Something something combat harder or more involved?
No more exodii, no more portal storms
Added throwing people?
People also say there are more lovecraftian or sci-fi monsters or something
It's free on git. No reason to buy it before you try it or at all unless you absolutely adore it
>>531885702
Isn't CDDA on steam just the last stable version?

they removed exodii and imgui and backport all the good shit

#fuckkevin

Did Cataclysm in any of the ports end up having sex- I mean, the ability to have a family yet? Last time I played, which was probably years now, had tampons and stuff in almost every single house by the hundreds and I was thinking that someone's bound to make them useful, whether officially or through a mod of a sort

>>531872076
Undertale

>>531819014
>53 strength
what kind of clown mod bullshit is going on here

>>531888203
>She got fucked over, went on hiatus
what exactly happened

>>531891645
>bro I REALLY need to goon to my turn based pixel graphics non-animated zombie survival game
literally why, there are a billion porn games in existence. also tampons were already useful because they can be disassembled for cotton balls and plastic.

>>531888809
Who's Kevin

>>531907817
Yeah, but it felt like a weird random thing to suddenly shove into the game, with Kevin back then citing that 'homes with (young) women would typically have these' or something like that. But I suppose in his world, half the people would go around wearing pride clothing and carry related items like those 'everyone is actually bisexual whether they know it or not' that the old shitty homos and lesbians would pull out prior to the trannies taking over their community.

>>531907336
20 str start, 20 str from hydraulic muscles, 2 str from the str CBM, a bunch of str from ursine mutations, a couple of points from an artefact iirc.

>>531913207
>20 str start
lmao meme bullshit, imagine presenting that as a real build.

>>531912282
Tampons aren't a weird random item, anon. You gotta get a gf
There are also menstrual pads in the game, but for some reason they're always displayed as a hidden item in a box unless you ">" the box. I wonder if this was done because menstruation is triggering to certain people...

>>531913396
What a strange thing to say.

>>531913674
They certainly are if it was added into a game like Cataclysm where it wasn't around before, purely for that reason. Though it's still an okay source of cotton balls and plastic early on if you can't seem to find a better source, I guess.

Damn, my character that I've spent the last two weeks with, the first to get through any T3 dungeons, got exploded in one turn in Rak'shor Pride, by a single normla necromancer. I stripped his sustains and he summoned a bunch of ghouls around me, I cast lash out killing most of them then immediately died. I didnt even use some of my buffs because they have crazy long cooldowns, I just had no idea this would happen.

>>531919078
Was just looking through my character dump, I think it was the 0% blight resist that did me in. IT wasn't 0 when I last checked, weird

Advice on how to horrorform this?

Been dumping into asi malak and master bleed to get the prestige. Sometimes it works well, sometimes I get raped instantly.

>>531919078
>>531919550
>>531920229
Stay on topic, please. We're discussing possible menstruation mechanics

>>531920956
It doesn't say troongames general on the OP, does it?

It's such a shame that DDA has a strangehold on all the autists that are willing to do the boring technical shit, all of these forks inevitably have a handful of gameplay focused people that are unwilling or unable to do that drudge work causing it to never overtake DDA.

>>531919078
>f***ed up evil elf

how the fuck do guns actually work in cdda? how significant are stats for them, does automatic fire actually do anything or is it the same as spamming 4 shots in semi auto? what is the difference between sight dispersion and actual dispersion and does the field of view rating for different sights do anything?

>>531943640
What? Its apt for a Shalore Writhing One, right?

>>531944726
I personally just shoot the zombies and hope I score a hit

What fun scenarios would you guys recommend for DDA?
Last time i played with a 20INt genius character in the LMOE bunker winter start. Spent ninety fays avoiding zeds, eating roots, farming copper from fridges in rural houses and smelting up bronze gear.
Then also manufacturing gunpowder from bird shit for weeks on end only to amass like 4-5 pipebombs worth.

>>531949052
>Then also manufacturing gunpowder from bird shit for weeks on end only to amass like 4-5 pipebombs worth.
bird shit is a waste of time, gotta look for caves with niter inside.

>>531949245
Buddy my char would job to a boneplate wolf. I was skulking around eating roots and bark. Anything to avoid conflict.
When i died on the thirtieth of april ive had like 9 kills.

>>531949052
Playing a different game

anyone play Touhou Crawl, and if yes, how long is the game exactly? does it have a ton of extra branches like DCSS?

>>531949052
>farming copper from fridges in rural houses and smelting up bronze gear.
Is it possible to go full dwarf fort and mine for metals and shit? I know you can find some useful resources by mining but I never found any metals.

>>531952786
Not metals but afaik you can get all three blackpowder components.
There are mods for mining ore.

>>531866659
you wouldn't be here playing roguelikes if that was the case

well I found my first aircraft carrier but I was instantly killed by a jawed terror randomly while on the way back to land to get guns and ammo. Apparently they are faster than motor boats, so there goes my chance of exploring a location I have never seen before.

>>531920229
I guess some self dmg would be best? Or some other way of stacking some other form for horrorform to inherit.

>>531907516
WG had a bunch of code pulled with no explanation. Boomer spit or some shit. Lots of hours of work gone and the usual shitty and dismissive attitude on git from the dev team. Classic cdda drama

>>531967824
oh wtf she was the one that added the dumbass slip and falling thing? Is she also the one that added the vehicle volume preventing movement bullshit? my expectations for TLG just plummeted if so.

>>531967969
Here's a link to Dumb fighting Dumber
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/72172

>>531952786
bog iron from swamps is easy in BN
I don't think I've managed to get copper out of the dirt yet but I could be wrong

>>531968360
jesus the clownshow sounds more reasonable in this exchange than the TLG chick does. And it sounds like she's an even bigger realismfag than kevin and company which is unbelievable, I guess that tracks with some of the bad changes I experienced playing her fork.

Why can't there just be a normal person that wants to make a video game calling the shots on one of these things?

>>531968783
have you tried Bright Nights

>>531968783
Autism is gonna autism

>>531967969
>Is she also the one that added the vehicle volume preventing movement bullshit?
she was lmao
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/70184
and kevin was the one that reverted it

welp

every fork is a monkey's paw I swear

how does CDDA have both turn-based gameplay and a physics system to handle stuff like cars moving around etc? it confuses me

>>531970870
Real-time gameplay is just turn-based gameplay that doesn't pause for you to act.

>>531971027
its a bit different because most turn based gameplay uses an action-points system including CDDA
trying top replicate real-time gameplay leads to confusing gameplay usually in a turn-based game which is why most don't do it.
yet somehow cata does both and idk that sounds incredibly confusing to me

>>531971246
Those action points are literally tied to time passing ingame.

>>531971246
>yet somehow cata does both and idk that sounds incredibly confusing to me
does it? I don't really know what's physics based about driving, you just point the car in a direction and go, if it does have some kind of physics going on it's extremely basic because I can stop my 10,000+ pound tank on a dime from like 50 mph.

the only thing physics-like I can think of about vehicles is when they get knocked around by strong zombies.

>>531971246
Realtime games are also turn based, each turn is one frame. They even use action point systems for animations!

>>531971539
lets say you got two cars driving around nearby
1 - does car A move 10 spaces, then after that car B moves 5 spaces (going at half speed)?
2 - Or does car A move two spaces, then car B move one space?
IMO method 1 of car movement would be incredibly awkward and janky
I don't remember, I don't think there are multiple cars driving at once in CDDA but iirc there is a physics system

>>531971450
it doesn't work exactly like that
if you do something thats slow it could take 150 action points (in a game where a turn is 100 action points)
so you pass 1.5 units of time in 1 unit of time, its a bit confusing and doesnt exactly mirror real-time games being paused frame by frame
this is how different speeds are commonly simulated

>>531972026
>I don't think there are multiple cars driving at once in CDDA
yeah that's what I was gonna say, there is never more than one car driving at once because only the player can drive. And even so I don't understand how what you are describing requires physics like at all. That scenario is simply a question of how movement speed is handled there's no invoking physics necessary there.

>>531972157
I thought that there was a semi-realistic driving simulation in CDDA not just "car travelling at this rate enables you to go X distance per turn"
if not, then ig you dont need any physics but I could've sworn that there was some sort of physics system in CDDA

>>531972026
you can get multiple cars moving at once in sufficiently energetic collisions
it works like 2 until the vehicles are moving faster than ~15 mph, at which point it moves like 1

or rather, vehicles get updates once per second every second on the second
I notice because I made my last dude fast as fuck so I got to observe that shit

rogoonlike

>DDA
>Bright Nights
>Era of Decay
>There is Still Hope
Corporate needs you to find the difference between these pictures

>>531801554 (OP)
Is Quasimorph any good?

Dragged a ghost crab over to a death drake and then willingly stood in spectral mist so that the death drake couldn't hit me with miasma.
Feeling pretty IQ over here.

>>531988935
i always feel high IQ whenever i use gell's gravitambourine

>>531978945
It's fucking awesome. There's a lot of item bloat, though, so it makes sense the most popular mod is a bag extension/weight reduction one so you can carry more stuff out of each successful run

>>531978671
Despite of or because of all its autism, DDA is the only one worth playing out of all of those

how do I make a dungeon in roguelike???

>>532002675
Make a pit.
Make a rope over the pit.
50% of the time, the rope detaches from the ceiling when you jump onto it, and so you fall into the pit from lethal height. The actual door is at the bottom of the pit.
50% of the time, the pit is full of asphyxiating gas, and the rope is not trapped at all. In these cases, the actual door is across the pit, on a ledge.
In both cases, the two doors look the same.

Behold, randomized challenge.

>>532002675
If you want to make a dungeon from scratch, you must first invent the universe

>>532007707
Recently I put some thought into this and it's actually not always correct. Sometimes in order to invent the universe, you have to start with the apple pie.

>>531973085
>>531973365
so then vehicles DO have their own physics system outside of the turn/action point system?

Zealot class + Dumuzi god. Makes it easy to activate prayer triggers because all the prayers fully recharge in every new area.

What's a DND like roguelike

Phoenix with Pyromancy can technically clear every level in the game with just the second prayer. Scorch stacks trigger fire damage on game turn, and fire damage adds scorch stacks. Not even a willpower save can break the loop.

>>531988935
me when I poison mist myself while being immune to poison
>>532017723
action points just divide turns into a timeline of who gets to go in what order during that turn
if you're fast enough you get to move multiple times during a turn (noticeable when doing very fast actions, like aiming or running while mutated)
vehicles are processed at the very beginning of a turn

He is Coming is a roguelike, and it's new
I just beat the hydra with a purity build

The nightmares are coming back rlg
I dreamt of being recruited into some army and turns out they are turning people into eldritch creatures.
Anyway Lovecraft/X Files roguelike?

>>532051783
I played a lot during the NextFest. I've been put off from buying it because it sounds like the whole "the more you play the more you unlock and thus the more you fuck yourself with RNG" aspect. Could never beat the demo version, boss' second phase always got me

>>532060075
Does that slash mean "and" or "or"? Infra Arcana is the most popular Lovecraftian roguelike. I recently came across this
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2958790/Cyclopean_The_Great_Abyss/
which is a Lovecraftian turnbased drpg with a permadeath mode. Haven't actually played it though.

>>531801554 (OP)
I tried at least 20 times and i still can't beat TOME with the basic bitch Berserker(or any character for that matter), how do i cope with being a brainlet?

https://www.youtube.com/live/_mFJ4XA7L9g?si=vg-2uNuY0DRrSuJ1
1 hour and a half of roguelikes

>>532066912
Have you tried skeleton archer?

>>532070324
>Have you tried skeleton archer?
Nope, only Berserker, i was told that was the most straight forward class but im still getting my ass kicked around level 20
Im almost considering Adventure mode

>>532071574
Not the other guy but most melees are terrible in tome4 and berserker is among the weakest of them simply because it's a strictly worse version of several classes.
Archer is a good recommendation, since you just need 1 point in every skill then shoot people to death with your basic attack.
The most important part of tome4 is escaping, which typically involves setting up your infusion to have at least 1 Movement Infusion, 1 cleansing (Shatter Affliction rune is preferred). When things get rough learn to cleanse your debuffs then use Movement + zig zag walk your way out of a fight.

I don't recommend Skeleton since they can't use Movement and they are very vulnerable to silence. Archer has Escape, but it has poor movement bonus (high level movement infusion can go up to +1000%) which is very important to get away from fights.

Make sure to learn Disengage/Tumble from th[e mobility tree, max Trained Reactions and wear robes. And to run away often.

>>532071980
I'll give it a shot, thanks

In Pixel Dungeon there is a weird mechanic that breaks the fourth wall.

If you start a new game, or get to the next floor while it's between 0:00 and 6:00, you will get the "Be cautious, since the dungeon is even more dangerous at night!" at the start of each floor.

And what this feeling does is it increases the spawn rate of all enemies on the floor for like 50-75%.

You get to farm way more XP/item drops from mobs, but it's almost always not worth it.

But I still think that it's way more fun when floors are filled with a lot of monsters, I always set my time to 0:00 at the start of every new run.

On PC I could easily set up RunAsDate, so I wouldn't need to do this manually every time. But I play on Android, and I couldn't find anything like RunAsDate for it, either there is nothing, or there are old apps from 2012 that no longer work on the modern systems.

>Hour into the achra build and you realise the King of Many Colours is about to kill you
I'm going to hang myself

>>532077476
He's pretty tough. It feels like I get strong enough to clear normal monsters halfway through the game, and I spend the rest of the time building to kill the boss.

>>531801554 (OP)
>59% chance
>fails 5 times in a row
Is there something more going on under the hood or am I just very unlucky?

>>532082370
It's 1.15% which isn't even rare. You only notice it over long periods of playing.

>>532065547
I've heard that complaint and I did find it bizarre that there isn't a simple save slot system
That being said I feel like the unlocked items are overall a bit higher quality than the baseline stuff
Even though the item pool gets diluted it's just better items that work and synergize with the same handful of mechanics that either level uses
If you can manage to just not worry about it like me I think you will find it literally doesn't matter, and unlocking items is fun

>>532082478
I literally had it happen again not even 5 minutes later with a kobold demonologist and 53% chance. 5 resists in a row.

>>532077476
>>532081390
GOT HIS ASS. Took me forever to get this Death Knight build to actually fucking work. Angra was a trap, his prayers charged too slowly for consistent divine intervention and the passive wasn't useful because my summons are already squishy enough to die quickly. This entire time I've been going all in on Stand Ground, but the key was to spend more points on Master Doom and use Shimmergang for consistent summons to proc the Death Knight passive.

Probably doesn't work without the robes that remove stasis. Without it you can't reach enemies in a timely manner without removing your poise (so ranged enemies fuck you) and you don't have enough summons because you need consistent shimmergang procs.

>>532082531
To be fair I probably wouldn't notice it if I hopped back in. I noticed it in the demo when trying to make bomb builds, but one of my favourite roguelites/likes is Slice & Dice, which has the exact same "you dilute your upgrade pool with more unlocks" issue.

>>532085121
>forgot the image
dios mio

>>531888203
>She
Let's not be silly. Worm"Girl" is a man with a dick. As you say he also sucks off Kevin (metaphorically only, I hope) to stay in his good graces.

It is funny that he glazes Kevin so hard just to make some petty money off of his fork. Seems very humiliating and degrading.

>>532077208
That's pre Shattered IIRC. I guess it's a nice trivia but I doubt anyone plays original PD

>>532089127
pretty sure it actually is a woman based on earlier evidence presented itt. I thought the whole reason her fork was created was because of a fight with kevin though, she's still sucking up to him after that?

>>532100930
kevin is sucking "her" worm if you know what i mean

>>532105360
kevin was actually kinda based in their github spat, pretty mercilessly shut down her stupider ideas.

This is a big day.

I have two wins
1 2,397,494 MiFi Skullcrusher escaped with the Orb and 4 runes! 79,259 05:52:14 Okawaru 4 2017-09-07 06:48:13 0.21-a0 CUE
2 10,385,198 MiFi Conqueror escaped with the Orb and 15 runes! 162,204 08:12:08 Okawaru 15 2025-07-21 10:11:23 0.33.1 CAO

The first win was in 2007 with 3 runes. I have played 2391 games total.

The build was Minotaur with throwing. I learned translocations at the end, but didn't get to use them for anything. Used death form since the 3rd hell. To deal with tomb, I drank haste, reapplied death form and finess, used about 4 fogs and 2 immolates, and 3 blinking scrolls to get out and make a second attempt. I got lucky, in that there were no dispersal traps, but I also entered the floor with -tele gloves equipped initially.

Even with no or few bennu, the chip damage from priest smite almost did me in.

I didn't do abyss until after pandemonium, and there was a hidden benefit to that. Low-floor abyss is not as dangerous as pandemonium. That means that okawaru got to keep his piety and turn it into gifts, which made the large amount of ammunition I needed for the last part of the game.

I feel invincible, but have been trained to respond to that feeling with unease.

>>532112350
You would win more games if you just played for three runes. Extended sucks anyway.

>>532002675
Cellular automata

>>532114168
>not doing 4 or 5 runes
Extended sucks because of damnation and torment and malmutate RNG.

What is the best version of DCSS? I hate the direction main branch has moved in, namely attack of opportunity and what they've done to casting and some of the God's feels way worse. Their obsession with making spellcasting more involved ended up getting way out of hand to where literally the vast majority of spells in the game are some sort of weird Monkeys Paw where the game actively punishes you for wanting to use magic. Most spells just feel horrible and finding them is unrewarding. Way too many high level spells that are either unreliable, inconsistent, or outright suicidal to bother with spending 5 or 7 spell levels on. (You have to stand still/ you have to be adjacent to enemies/ you literally get drain every time you use it/it can only be cast a limited number of times/etc)

However I do like some of the bigger overhauls. Most notably I am a huge huge fan of removing hunger. I always hated spell hunger and played mummy a lot just because they didn't have to deal with it.

>>532117171
Hunger's existence made spells more involved. For every spell, you had to balance between the amount of natural food which was available and the amount of hunger you were willing to spend on bigger spells.

If your complaint in the old times was that things were too involved, and your complaint now is that the spells specifically are too involved, simply wait. Over time, they will decide more and more things are too much effort for the player and eventually you'll have access to simple and hunger-free spells, after a few more years worth of updates.

>>532117171
It means you have to pump up dodging / EV earlier. Can also find an amulet of acrobat or play as a tengu caster if you don't like AOOs. I think it's a shitty mechanic and hope they remove it -- or perhaps force the monster to have a much more significant chance of falling back one tile away from you after attacking you.

The game, however, appears to be more generous with drops -- such as branding / acquirement scrolls + more rings of slaying, evasion, etc., earlier on. Also easier to get spells in general. You pretty much always find spells on D:1 now.

>>532119678
Attacks of opportunity are usually irrelevant after a certain point in the game. They mostly just exist to make sure you get mega super assfucked by D1 spear gnolls. You will NOT outplay the enemies with zero mechanics other than punching you real hard at level 1.

>>532120152
Walking away from a yak while my health regenerates in layer is no longer an option, which in turn means that I can never have a situation where a normal-speed enemy brings me to 10 hp, because retreat is not consistently possible at that point. Hydras, then, are more deadly than before, and must be fought under conditions where victory is nearly assured before we ever face of in the first place.

This is to say, aoo doesn't become less relevant. You play differently because it exists, which is why it isn't killing you and you don't notice it. That's also why you do notice it with the gnoll, because you haven't found a good enough work-around which you can execute without actively thinking about it.

Not going to reply to that nigger, a guy that hated hunger is definitely not going to work on anything even with AI, but I want to say again I'm surprised with all the AI coding we don't have a sperg re-adding removed shit back to DCSS
I would prolly try it if I had a working PC

Where is the guy who tried to make a roguelike in BYOND? has he rogueliked himself?

>>532124130
Eh you can argue semantics about what "relevant" means but I just mean that the attacks of opportunity don't constrain my gameplay that much after the early game. I have 40 consumables in my pouch and I can take a fuckload of hits with a level 15 character. But a D1 gnoll is like... I literally have one consumable. I use it, hope it works, and if it doesn't then I guess I'll just die. Like people didn't ENJOY walking around a pillar for 200 turns, but there are no other game mechanics available when you literally just spawned into the dungeon, and it's a bit of a dick move for that part of the game with zero options to also be tuned as the most lethal and random part of the game. I guess that gives us reason to read ID our scrolls asap but holy fuck the gnolls spawn on THE FIRST FLOOR, no one is read ID'ing their scrolls on the first floor before you even cleared it.

This is actually one of the things that burnt me out on DCSS more than anything. I got good enough that I could beat the midgame with like a 90% success rate but the early game is way too swingy. One successful hit in melee takes half your life, and orc priests have a 1/8 chance of dealing 7-17 damage with their smite every round. I hate the early game because it's too random, and I hate the mid game because it turns into a resource optimization problem that is tuned too loosely so you never run out of resources. Takes too fucking long to tab through the sheer number of monsters in the vaults and depths too, like fuck they really juiced the monster density in some of the areas and the midgame ends up dragging for too long because of it. Everything between the end of the S branches and the start of Zot is terrible content that should be compressed to half of its current length.

>>532119678
Yeah i noticed the more generous drops as well. Rings of slaying got increased drops this most recent version. Books are way more abundant but also there's way more spells that are not very useful that dilute the pool so it ends up being really frustrating having this giant library of spells you don't want. Just a headache to look at.
>>532118182
It didn't really, it just made it more tedious in my opinion. Only exception was spriggans or the extended game with less chunks due to demon/undead enemies mostly. But by then you have so many rations saved up it's pointless. Idk, i just hated having to eat every time i used a high level spell, it annoyed me.
>>532128729
the only game i had in recent DCSS where AOO weren't a pain in the ass is one where I got amulet of acrobat on like D:2. But it's still annoying because it functionally means i no longer have an amulet slot since wearing this one is basically mandatory.
>>532124465
what is so good about hunger?

>>532128729
Gnolls do not have enough respect on their name.

Orks look like civilized folk. They look human-sized. They have wizards and their priests actually work. They don't appear on the first floor, maybe ever. I would figure that their basic fighter is stronger than the rats and snakes and gnolls you find on lower floors.

Ork:. .HD1, hp 4-10, AC 1, EV 9, will 0, attack 2
gnoll: HD2, hp 8-18, AC 2, EV 9, will 10, attack 6

This is to say, a single unequipped gnoll is arguably twice as dangerous as an ork, and you would litterally be better off ignoring the gnoll and fighting a line of orks on D2, assuming you don't find a priest or a wizard and a poison weapon in their hands.

Does ANYONE have that one comic that broke down the 5 venom mob styles in cata

>>532117171
Hunger forces you to move forward. It's supposed to be a mechanic that keeps giving you incentive to continue moving on rather than just grinding. And when it was tied to spells, as a way to stop you from just mindlessly shooting off the biggest spells incessantly. It can create hard choices. Do you stay and try to gain some more levels and loot, do you use that big spell or a smaller one, do you wait and heal a bit or are you forced to trudge on and hope for a corpse for some food? These make the game fun. You aren't supposed to be tabbing your way through the game. You should be having to think and using your time and resources strategically to maximize your odds of winning.

>>532112350
congrats

>>532135968
I see your point and I am convinced. I'm not being sarcastic or ironic I mean that sincerely. I'm giving bcrawl a try right now. It feels a lot more like OG crawl, it's a good sensation. I died to a stupid death pretty quick lol. But very fun and feels so much more familiar. Don't get me wrong I still like nu-crawl too, but it almost doesn't feel like the same game anymore sometimes. How do you feel about forgecraft? Or the changes in general with current DCSS? Are you a fan? Detractor? Neutral?
> Do you stay and try to gain some more levels and loot, do you use that big spell or a smaller one, do you wait and heal a bit or are you forced to trudge on and hope for a corpse for some food?
I have a neurotic compulsion to clear every single level 100%. I get genuine anxiety and discomfort if I go down a stairs without fully exploring the level first. Only exception is the last level of spider where after I get the rune I just leave. But shoals, snake, swamp, even lair, even vault, I will not go further in the game until I've cleared every last enemy. I don't know why I'm like this but I am. Probably thats a huge part of why I liked hunger being removed.

I don't do this for any tactical or strategic reason other than thinking I might miss some highly vital item. But it isn't really to grind or farm hp. Just feels incomplete otherwise.

>>532112350
Congrats anon! Yet Another Victory Post. Feels better than another stupid death. I have I think 3 or ascensions but only with I think 3 and 4 runes. 2 were formicid warriors, I forget the other one, maybe I imagined it. It's crazy how many games you can play without winning. I haven't won since like 2016 or 2017. I tell myself it's because I am not REALLY trying but probably I just suck lol

I have zero victories. When I finally ascend we're throwing a party. I'll buy pizzas for the first 3 people that congrats me.

>>532138227
Bcrawl is fun. I like nu-crawl too. They at least added in the zot clock as a way to kind of supplant hunger and add that hard choice factor. Like you I like to 100% clear a level. I always fear missing out on valuable loot or something. But that's part of making the tough choices. Exploring every level 100% takes up valuable time, but you also could be missing out on valuable loot as a result. That's why I usually just save and come back later if I find myself treating it more as a slow realtime game and making dumb decisions. It's turn based for a reason. You should be taking time to examine enemies, checking your spells and items, etc., before facing off against an enemy. I used to be a hoarder too and die while having a pack full of shit because I'll "need it later". Once I started tidying up habits like that I started making it further.

>>532138889
hell yeah anon! you got this

>>532144421
>I used to be a hoarder too and die while having a pack full of shit because I'll "need it later".
same. i think this is pretty much everyone at first. Very hard habit to break but you really have to just treat every encounter as life or death, because mostly they are. Can't use that piety/scroll/potion if you're dead so may as well ensure your survival. Of course im preaching to the choir here, but man that mindset is exactly why i love rougelikes so much. No other genre can ever come close to the level of tension and stakes other than maybe those hardcore extraction shooters. Idk about everyone else but i play pretty slow and sometimes I will have a character with 15+ hours of playtime across several days or even weeks. Being in a deadly encounter at that point is just such a rush.

>>531801554 (OP)
>Is Elin allowed
Oh goodness I've found a thread to talk about this game. I thought it's just too niche and autistic even for for Dwarf Fortress level.

>>531809928
>I also don't remember if Barbaran Montante was the solution to shoggoths and sludge crawlers as well.
Barbaran Montante's schtick is anti-armor, and neither has that much. It's the regeneration that makes them hard to kill. Putting them on fire slows it down and a shotgun with big magazine takes care of it.

>>532148001
>Elona/Elin
>niche
Bruh

>>532148001
Just an FYI, there's a general for it on >>>/jp/. You're more than welcome ITT of course, but figured you'd like to know that.
>>>/jp/49721404

There used to be a dwarf fort general on this board but they're on a different board now, can't remember which maybe retrogames board or traditional games board or something.

Btw I hate Fern but love Freiren. Anyways welcome.

>>532152078
They're extremely niche dude. You probably have a warped perception due to being well versed in online communities and imageboards in particular. In wider broader mainstream those games are basically completely unheard of. Ask anyone in real life if they've heard of them, you will have a very hard time finding even 1 person who has.

This race gives a payoff for inflexibility but it feels so bad getting quad turned by fast enemies because I'm constantly limited to my minimum speed. I think if I stacked willpower I would just die before my damage can apply to the enemies.

>>532152078
Well this very thread has zero posts about it
>>532152742
>jp thread
>It's full on English, including screenshots
Times are a changing.
I'll lurk and ask in both I think. Thanks for the tip.

>>532153121
You can do some fun things with Arba myrmindon and inflexibility.

>>532153181
Elona and Elin are barely roguelikes. They're closer to JRPGs. If those are roguelikes then Dungeons of Dredmore and Binding of Isaac are roguelikes. Also it's weebshit garbage anyway.

>>532154068
Elona is more of a roguelike than DDA by far

>>532154603

>>532153181
>Well this very thread has zero posts about it
I mean, when you consider how many posts are actually about RLs, that's not really a surprise.
I might have to do a Gearhead run at some point just to liven the place up a bit.

>>532138227
i like nu-crawl more than bcrawl. too many autistic changes in bcrawl. and im really not a fan of only having 12 dungeon levels. i think other branch dungeons have reduced levels as well in that variant.

>very little programming experience
>first project is a roguelike with a ton of features

i can do this

>>532172170
yes, you can
don't be a pussy and just code code code
don't spend too much time getting it perfect just go go go go go
you got this
dont code an engine btw

>>532172170
libtcod is a library that does some of the hardest things for you like pathfinding and terminal emulation, and its available for C/C++ and Python.

I'm trying for a Shapeshifter Draconian in DCSS. Should I rather aim for high Unarmed Combat skill or high Shapeshifting to get access to the latergame forms as quickly as possible?

I just found out addons are a thing in TOME, can i get some recommendations?

>>532178479
OldRPG is an alternate tileset that gives a super nintendo vibe, its good to turn occasionally to break up the monotony of things. Cleaner Item Descriptions make item descriptions easier to read.

>>532172170
I believe in you

>>532172170
Should be easy enough. It's ascii right? So you cut out all the need for art assets and shit like that right there. The content is just letters and symbols any keyboard has. Really just limited by your imagination and being able to procgen levels.

is furtranny around

>>532154068
bullshit, elona+ is very similar to ADOM in a number of respects. and like ADOM and TOME, there are optional "adventure mode" things and perma-death

Man, some the Achra prestiges feel really weirdly designed. Mind Knight's features don't feel cohesive at all. I guess I could do a generic stand still repulsion build and throw in stand ground, but it's really lame. Same with Samnite, no synergy with the packages that make it up, just random bonuses.

>>532148001
if you want somebody to read your Elin blog I recommend here
if you want answers to your question I recommend /jp/

>>532151492
yeah, but I could kill them in melee, which was fun
you can also magdump with a CFAR or other AR-15

>>532186575
I haven't seen him lately

Turn 1 in Daikara, pop my precognition.... See this, most of the mobs are invulnerable too. Thanks Daikara.

>>532214234
They should fight among themselves as soon as you get in LOS

>>532216016
this game doesn't have infighting among hostiles lol, nice try tho, im pulling them as piecemeal as possible

>>532217506
It does, because horror enemies are hostile to everything non-horror and there's a decent high chance that a horror spawns in the middle of the vault.
(It might not spawn at all though)

highways in cdda are goated as fuck, it's the best update to the game in a long ass time.

>>532217727
Hm, I've never seen it happen, not even with this group which had Dredges (horrors faction) and an Onilug (fearscape faction) in it. Whenever I checked who was targeting who (even through walls with precognition) the target was always me. Although I did notice that the onilug mysteriously disappeared when I was resting on the other side of the map, I can't find him now.

is the site shitting itself again or what

>>532217727
Weird, because I've never seen it before. Even in this combat where there were Dredges (Horrors faction) and an Onilug (fearscape faction) I never saw them fight and when I looked at their target (even through walls with precognition) it was always me. Although weirdly enough the Onilug did disappear without a trace when I was resting on the other side of the level, so that could lend some credence to infighting.

highways in the new cdda updates are goated as fuck, one of the best additions in a very long time.

>>532218332
it was for me, that's why the double post, I thought the first one didn't go through

>>>/jp/
fuck off avatarnigger

>>532218098
this is crazy, your map mobility is 10x better now with highways. just messing around with them for 20 minutes I think I have covered more map area than I did in my last 5 games combined. you also have a reason to care about making fast cars now.

>>532172170
If DCSS and CDDA developers can, why can't you

Anyone fixed the reproduction mod yet?

It would be great if in no hope, guns were proportionally likely to spawn with magazines, and end dungeon loot always spawned.

There's little point doing labs in no hope because of how often the reward loot is either missing or in unusable combinations. Given how hard it is to reach this loot, especially in no hope, this just sucks.

Probably a case for dungeon loot to always spawn loaded.

>>532235513
I'm not familiar with that one, how is it different from dda?

>>532235594
It's just a mod which increases the difficulty of the environment significantly and makes it far more of a cataclysm.
Most vehicles are damaged or unusable, many locations can start on fire, it puts a ton of hostile NPCs in, reduces the item spawn chances significantly.

A lot of its features should be mained, in a toned down way

Kind of feel like downloading Bloatcrawl 2 just to fuck with the meme species

>>532066912
Berserker is one of the worse classes in the game (right after bulwark and alchemist).
Try Sawbutcher or Skirmisher, they are very strong but still require you to try your best.
If you want to just sit and do nothing and still win the game play as a summoner or necromancer (focused on skeletons and ghosts).
There is also oozemancer but it is one of those classes with very stressful early game but then you just snowball into unkillable antimagic artillery.

>>532178479
Hunted for willpower based unarmed class based on a werewolf.
Root's Classes (has only one class in it) has Raider, a pirate based tinker with a gun, one handed melee weapon and a robot parrot.
Light From Below is a short campaign about crawling out of underground back to surface. Has some pretty cool stuff in it.
Cleaner Item Desriptions is a very good QoL
Odyssey of the Summoner allows you to play as a hydra/wolf/minotaur/dragon/mantis. Each monster has a LOT of builds and skill trees and they are fun to play but the big problem with this mod is an overwhelming amount of lore and dialogue. It feels sometimes like Disco Elysium, no joke. It has too much lore and dialogue.
There is also a seaelf mod (forgot the name) it adds a new race, a new town and adds generic whips and tridents into the game. It also has a trainer for Exotic Weapon Mastery in that new town if you want to play Marauder dualwielding whips or Doomdringer with a trident right from the start.

>>532218098
My only complaint is that on and off ramps are lacking and I'll often have to smash through a guardrail to make an exit

>>532152742
why is it on jp and not here

>>532251223
I know right how could you hate this face I'm so lonely

>>532251572
I would say I hope you never have kids but I know you never will

>>532252603
it's a bit for the thread

>>532112350
congrats anon. Do you still play or do you now have a burnout?

>>532254897
I've played 5 games today, still playing the last one.

luv me some immo kino

>>532259603

No.

Early alpha mutations are just +1, +2 to stats, right?
How do stat boosts work for the post threshold prime mutation ones? I'm not running anything crazy 8 str, 8 dex, 12 int and 10 per, but will probably have each or some of these boosted by three points with bombastic before I even start alpha mutations. If the stat boost is bad, I might just go medical

>>532272114
If it's the same as it used to be, it's entirely dependent on what your base stats are.
I don't remember the exact detail but I do recall doing a 4 4 4 4 start and going alpha was pretty broken.

I'm racist, look at me ! I hate non-white women !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9yYJ6ZAYns
Fucking RIP ;_;7

>>532247981
yeah I had that same problem, and the guardrails in the middle are their own issue. highways naturally incentivize you to go fast but I found out the hard way that when you are doing 80 and accidentally hit the wrong key to make a slight turn it's enough to immediately send you into the middle guardrail and explode your entire car.

I'm not sure why they have them either, highways don't typically have guardrails in the middle between lanes IRL.

>>532272114
>>532276949
raw stats don't seem to to a whole lot in cataclysm t b h. I remember the first time I got hydraulic muscles thinking I was gonna instagib zombies with 30+ strength and a warhammer, but my damage barely increased at all. The only time you get a major effect is when a melee technique that explicitly scales with strength procs, outside of that it's barely perceptible.
Same goes for dex and perception, I unironically can't tell you what they even do for ranged combat. high dex/per or low dex/per, guns seem to work exactly the same to me. And int as far as I can tell might as well do literally nothing, what is its intended benefit even supposed to be saving time on reading and crafting? Not exactly the most exciting thing.

imo they should just axe the stats as a feature entirely and have character builds be entirely trait/mutation/cbm based.

>>532290196
Str has some benefits such as max hp, the ability to move stuff, break grabs and the like.
Dex is mostly about dodge and melee accuracy iirc.
Int affect craft failure chance, reading speed along with offering some protection against mind effects.
Per is mainly night vision
Honestly if you really want to see the effects, you should just compare a character with 4 in a stat to 20 in a stat and you'll notice a huge difference. Just dragging a desk or break furniture can take ages on a 4 str build for instance.

im trying Path of Achra
and im not really getting it
its kinda boring

>>532302257
It's really not for everyone

>>532302257
It's like someone designed an autobattler then decided you have to press a button anyway.

>>532296874
these effects are all so disparate and many of them are low impact. Like who is building strength to move furniture easier? Seems like it would be way cleaner to roll that effect into a trait like strong back or similar.

And there's a lot of overlap too, like if you say dex is mostly for dodge and melee accuracy, that's also what the dodge and melee skills do. Why have two independent character values with essentially the same effect? Int is even worse because you can already get traits that reduce your reading or crafting speed, why even have the stat? keep the learning and crafting traits and make the things that scale with int scale with the relevant skill, e.g. heath care or science.

I say get rid of stats, add starting traits that give +melee damage, +ranged accuracy, +night vision etc. and add more mutations to similar effect.

What are the best looking Roguelikes?

>>532319773
brogue

Trylogia księżycowa roguelike when?

>>532290196
guns aim much faster with higher perception/dexterity
it does make a difference

>>532319970
the oryx tileset?

>>532319773
Probably Jupiter Hell

Its not a roguelike in its default gamemode but Stoneshard is gorgeous.

>>532350756
I'm surprised you get exp for Dowan's kills.

>>531882051
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/3560030?emclan=103582791475198023&emgid=523096634204094683

What's the best/worst entry in the Cata TLG changelog?

>>532358216
the best is lots of de-bloating including cut items like tranny socks, useless enemies like hummingbirds, and my personal favorite removing fungaloids for being a pointless cancerous enemy.

worst is adding even more autistic realism shit that makes the game more annoying to play.

mixed bag for sure.

How do you play a rune knight in frogcomposband?

I used a teleport scroll in Gehenna
it can be done

>>532358216
Worst
>Removed many pointless variant animals, pruned out bloat and redundant monsters. Dogs now come in three varieties (tiny, small, and medium) and cats in one.
Best
>Improved HP for pet animals, especially dogs.
>Added trained versions of the small and medium dog, the attack and guard dog. These are stronger, tougher, and braver. You cannot currently train your own animals, but that is planned.

Shadowed just got a really big new patch, there's a new mutant class who can mutate randomly, but mostly actually just absorbs essence from eaten corpses which they can use to buy special abilities.
Also another stealth overhaul.

>>532315317
>who is taking str for moving furniture?
Probably no one, they instead will be taking it for extra hp, grab breaks and melee dmg. Them being able to break and move stuff easier is just a nice bonus that can come in very handy.
You don't miss being able to move lockers until you find yourself in a situation where barricading a door or walling in a turret is useful, then suddenly you do.
>And there's a lot of overlap too, like if you say dex is mostly for dodge and melee accuracy, that's also what the dodge and melee skills do. Why have two independent character values with essentially the same effect?
Because they stack. And one you can improve relatively easily and the other you cant improve easily.

>>532358216
> Exodii have been removed. Personally, I appreciated the writing of DDA's Exodii, but found them to be a bad fit for the game as they take the focus off of procedural world exploration and shift it to repeated visits to the same static NPC. They also run counter to our theme, which is more backyard sci fi and conspiracy and less alien invasion.

Was this being diplomatic or a real opinion. "I personally think the writing is fine, BUT...!"

>>532411743
Why can't it be both? He liked the writing but didn't think it was good for the game

>>532411743
We'll see if she removes the refugees and hub01

>>532381426
Damn I just checked my steam and yup it did, I'm usually more on top of updating all my games, nice! I thought the Onmyoji was the last class.

Are all roguelikes just resource management at the end of the day.

>>532421923
Most of them let you rest up to full resources between every fight.

>>532302257
you literally have to be autistic to enjoy it
watching a million meaningless stats fly across the screen has no effect on normal people, autistic retards think it makes them look like a hacker or something

>>532421923
Rift Wizard 1 definitely is about resource management. DCSS can be a resource puzzle sometimes too, but it eventually becomes extremely generous with consumables as you get further into the game.

>>532416065
Not so far.

https://github.com/Cataclysm-TLG/Cataclysm-TLG/pull/958
> There was a known meta of getting a jackhammer, breaking into hub 01, and robbing the place blind for ultratech loot. This is stupid.

>>532066912
>Start an Archer like anon recommended
>Pretty good, easy even, at least in comparison with my previous attempts
>"Maybe i was just green, i'll give Berserker another shot"
>By far my best attempt, level 30 and cleared almost all the dungeons
Then i misclicked and got zapped by some magic users at the spellblaze dungeon, i was supposed to pop a heal and instead i walked towards them
Anyway, thanks for reading my blog, this is a fun game

>>532381426
It's just like I'm playing demonspawn in DCSS

>>532438575
what's a good demonspawn background? they suck so hard in the early game.

>>532439695
Gladiator, Artificer, or almost any spellcaster start. The game recommends Berserker but it sucks if you get magic-based mutations on that background. Demonspawn has 100% HP and all its armor slots so it's effectively a better Human the moment you get your first mutation. A few -1 aptitudes don't matter as much as you would think.

>>532425961
That's only really ToME

One issue with resource management in some roguelikes is that the resource is tied to inventory space, so often it feels like after some initial hurdle you can accumulate enough resources to never run out of them.
An interesting compromise from a non roguelike is potion slot in Slay the Spire. You have 2 slots in A20 and you can't go back to pick up items that you throw away, so you are always considering whether using 1 potion to come out on top is a good idea or not in case a potion drops for you.
Unrelated but in a lot of soulslike that allows you to upgrade your healing potion slot, the game also feels oppressive early and too relaxing later. The issue is the same, consumables (as sustain/risk management tools) should somewhat be tied to the fights that you do rather than being something that scales with game length.

>>532442323
The worst resource by far isn't the inventory, it's time.
I think every game would be massively improved if it removed all automatic regeneration.
You could even replace it by just massively buffing hp or littering the starting floors with helath restoring food so you can tank shitloads of hits in the earlygame but it ruins you later on. That way you'd actually get a lot more experience in your initial runs and get to see much more of the game before you figure out enough to actually be efficient and beat it.
I'm not a huge fan of levels and exp either for similar reason but I can see their purpose and they lend a distinctly different feel to games.(Basically in games without levels/exp you're entirely dependent on rng items so every character has to be very adaptable, whereas level based games let you stick to an archetype much easier)

>>532444863
Result of that is

Early game you don't die when you've made mistakes that would otherwise kill you. Therefore, you make it at least 30% into an 8 hour game before you lose due to mistakes in the first 5 minutes. There is now a massive disconnect between the point in time in which you made your mistake and the point in time in which you paid for your mistake. Making a mistake and then learning that I am fucked 3 hours later isn't just tedious, it also hides what my mistake actually was.

You can make your healing items non-instant so that they fail to bail you out meaningfully in a single combat, and that solves the issue where mistakes are made harder to notice and runs waste way way more player time, but it causes another issue. Now, the player has to stand still for a long time in order to heal. There is, again, no reason for the player to move forward and incur risk instead of just waiting.

This can be solved by making the healing items temporary, such that the use of time as a resource is limited in terms of healing.
What I have described is food, almost.

>>532444863
Not having automatic regeneration isn't a bad idea, but it's just very hard to do without very nuanced procedural generation so the healing locations are smartly put down so the player doesn't feel too forced to play the game like a stealth game by default. There's also the matter of backtracking, say you leave some early healing locations unused so later you can use them, which ends up meaning that you have healing potions that you can't carry in inventory.
I don't like item rot or time limited mechanic either, because the time you spend sneaking around or stay in combat should be a function of your build, which is often too variable that you don't want some hidden global variables to screw you over.
Currently the game I work on has backtracking + full regen between fights so I don't think there are any easy options to maintain the risk game. There are a few options however, but that's for later

>levels and exp
The issue I see is that leveling up in most games leveling up gives too much good stuff. That more or less can be tuned by giving away more permanent upgrades as reward for exploration/killing enemies.

>>532448745
That's what happens with health regen anyway.
Early on you can constantly spam wait to regen to full, later on that can become impossible and suddenly you can't survive anymore because you're used to a crutch.
Really you don't need to add lots of hp or healing at all, just make healing very rare or impossible and have the whole game be about careful damage management.
If you can only take a few hits per game you can even print out a list of all the damage you ever took the entire game when you die to explicitly lay it out.

>>532448938
I think the whole point of exp is just choice about your build, but is a bad mechanic because of other stuff.
It should be replace just with better more guaranteed shops. Can do the same/similar with healing. Just make every X floors a rest area where you're guaranteed to be able to select from a few items and/or heal.
Then make those floors points of no return to avoid backtrack spamming. This effectively balances each group of floors into it's own separate area to make it easier to design and add leeway for some mistakes so you don't just get permafucked by stubbing your toe on floor one.

Most of these issues have to do with the lack of limit on consumables (healing is the most obvious ones) and the ability to make the ones over limit temporary while making it convincing. The roguelites do this by having limited inventory space + no backtracking. Roguelikes however tend to allow more freedom in walking around, which in turn requires them to introduce mechanics like item decay/food rot to prevent using the entire game as an inventory. Now I suppose item decay is fine in some game, but it's not something I'd rather have in every game for example, to me the entanglement between the procgen being merciful with enemy/item location and having a timer on your gameplay is enjoyable, it's a bit too much to ask.

>>532449374
I'm trying to make an interconnected world game and backtracking is a feature, so having points of no return is a no-no for me.

See, the whole problem can be done with by removing backtracking. Have a more restricted inventory space. Now you don't have to care whether your game has regen or not - consumables are now tools that you want to spend/save to get through difficult fights. Or the player gets a choice to complete a level without full clearing and preserving their loot. Could even separate the consumable inventory out from regular inventory to balance these more easily.

The issue is backtracking, which is where a lot of ugly concepts were introduced to deal with it.

>>532449858
Well you can fix backtracking by pseudo limiting it. I.e. just make items in each location very limited and non-renewable so you don't get anything from going back.
Kinda defeats the point of allowing it at all though.
If you actually WANT the player to backtrack the only way I can think of is to go hard on encouraging stealth and diving. This is actually kinda the adom model, you play through levels many times going as deep as possible each time, because you have away to escape and go back to the start at will if you get trapped.
They fix backtracking by regenning the level every time you enter it so you never just have piles of shit lying on the floor, and then giving you the two as a sort of universal safe floor.

If you wanted even more backtracking for some reason, like visiting multiple towns/dungeons multiple times, then you;d just have to add things like elites and lairs where earlygame you basically just run away but later on you can come back ad loot them for better gear.

>>532450547
It's not exactly a good model to regenerate enemies because we're now moving to the Frog/Diablo like model of grindy games. If you remove the loot, it becomes obnoxious.
The reason why I have backtracking is because the game is inspired by Zelda/Metroidvania where you are constantly looking for what to do next.

So there are solutions like
>Non-instant consumable and they are tiered
So in combat, spending a round to use a low tier potion is not as good. You still want to hoard though.
>Consumable is 1 item that only recharges when fighting equal or higher level enemies
This is kinda cringe to be honest, it works in a utilitarian manner but if the player progresses through the game in the "wrong" order they are screwed (since the game is heavy on exploration and enemy levels are not displayed)
>You can hand in low level consumables for corresponding amount of reward (like EXP)
This is weird, it puts the pressure on the player to figure out whether they want to hold onto stuff for risk management or to get some small, permanent upgrade.

I could also consider 1 + 3, so tiered potions and handing them in.

>>532451848
Shops solve all this. Low tier items are cheap, high tier items are expensive.
At the start of the game you loot high tier stuff and sell it for low tier stuff, later on you sell all the low tier stuff to buy high tier items.
You can avoid storage and trading tedium by just removing the default merchant assfucking and just making everything flat prices so you can buy back anything you sell without losing any gold. Once you do that you can just auto-sell everything you pick up and buy back what you want currently. Can even set a template to auto-buy stuff to replenish your kit.

If you want to avoid shops you can just use elites as effectively tradeups. Like you balance them so you NEED to use consumables to beat them,so effectively you're trading what you have currently for what you loot off of them, with better gameplay getting a better deal.

>>532452568
This isn't as simple, because a lot of things do have better effective value in trading as the game goes on. Consumables do tend to have more utility than equipments of slots you already occupied for example.

I don't think this is a big deal depending on the game objectives. Ultimately there are higher level decisions that the game has to make (whether it has points of no return mechanic) that overrides it.

Holy wrath goes dead in the hands of a death-form user.
Chaos, in long fights, inflicts the enemy with fast+slow and might+weak, while death form already causes slow, weak, and drain.
Draining weapons are obviously redundant.

So, if you're blowing scrolls of branding on a +9 demon whip in the late game, what brand are you hoping for?

>>532460601
Pain if you're a necromancer, else electric.

>>532461326
Pain deals negative damage, right? Meaning that it fails to affect the same enemies who you fail to inflict draining on.

Still pain? Does it deal so much damage when it does work that it is still worth it? Isn't basically everything immune to it at that point, or does it put in work?

>>532370307
I hope horses get the same treatment. It's disappointing to find them, only to remember they can barely carry any gear/loot you may have

>>532464498
what's the point of horses at all when a car or bike is far superior in literally every way?

did they buff grabs or something in dda? I just died on a fully healthy 10 strength character because I could not break a grab from 2 soldier zombies after literally like 50 attempts. I lost a really good start too, and once again I lose interest in playing and probably won't pick it up again for weeks.

>>532469220
yeah don't play DDA, use BN instead

>>532469281
they really have a hard time with game balance. it seems like the only way they can think to add difficulty and danger to the game is add a million ways for the player to be killed in a single turn with no counterplay.

>>532469649
yup

>>532469220
They know that zombie melee skill is too high. Said they're delaying a fix until new hordes are implemented.

https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/81923

>>532471298
they have been that way forever though, why would that cause me to suddenly be completely unable to break a grab that was very easy to break in the past?
I mean I tried to break it like I usually do and failed 10 times in a row, then I figured I was fucked and just held down the key to see if I was able to break the grab at all, and I never managed to despite holding down the key for 20 seconds and watching all my limbs get chipped down to 0. either it's a bug or they buffed grabs to a ludicrous degree making them effectively an immediate death sentence.

>>532469649
Adding dormant zombies in towns to make them more populated and Hordes 2.0 are still pie in the sky, right.

Nobody has ideas to make the woods interesting yet though. Maybe make them more dangerous at night somehow?

>>532471739
>Maybe make them more dangerous at night somehow?
they already did that with their "boss" monster, aka another thing that kills you on the spot if you don't know about it and how to kill it beforehand and carry around exactly the right tools to do so at all times.

>>532471514
I think it's the group grab thing, two soldiers is enough to make it impossible to escape

>>532472076
it was never like that in the past though is my point, and that's the reason why I wasn't concerned about it and let it happen. If being in melee range of 2 zombies is an instant death for the player the game will be a hell of a lot more annoying to play.

>Grabbed the first god I saw on TrMo, who was Ash
>Cursed my starting robe as I'm unlikely to find any usable armour as Tr soon
>Found Pearl Dragon scales like 20 steps later
I guess this is game's another way of punishing me for forgetting Ash doesn't boost unarmed for leaving hand slots empty and is useless for a claw character

>>532472310
yes, don't play DDA, play Bright Nights instead

>>532474671
it's time to go clubbing

SEX!
SEEEX!!
SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEX!!!

Isn't real.

>>532340706
It's beautiful in ASCII too, in fact I wish more games had ASCII like that

I like portal storms

Where do I find this boy
https://cdda-guide.nornagon.net/monster/mon_cat_chonker

>>531994382
>>531978945
i just bought it, what am i in for? wont be able to play for at least 2 hours

>>532517007
Don't leave Mars
Install mods to see enemy speed on their tiles, what items you need for upgrading your ship, and auto sorting loot
Also give the intel item thing to someone and you get some nice loot to start with in exchange
That's all I can say after trying an older pirated version
Not a roguelike btw

>>532517752
thanks

>>532517007
A roguelike btw

>>532503636
it looks like Forays into Norrendrin got heavily inspired by this. I'm gonna have to try this

Bright Nights added the small mutation to troglobite D: My heckin free stats nooo

is DCSS just entirely ruined now?
im not aware of any other game out there with the same size of audience, quality of life features, graphics and webtiles capability as DCSS
its a damn shame

>>532532064
Good, I can RP a dwarf now.

>>532534378
dcss has been basically developed by 2 people ever since 0.31
maybe you can join in idk
also there are plenty of forks

>>532534378
DCSS was ruined like a decade ago
ToME is better at all of those other than webtiles

>>532540019
the same two people?
why is it that there are seeminlgy so few roguelike devs :(

>>532540447
>the same two people?
yep, they do pretty good work but the direction of the game is too pointed with just 2 people imo, it's extremely spellcasting focused and melee just keeps getting indirectly nerfed and kept at a braindead level of complexity while spells turn into elaborate ritual dances

>why is it that there are seeminlgy so few roguelike devs :(
it's a super niche boomer-coded genre to begin with and the longstanding ones have ancient decades old code, cliquey dev teams etc.

In cdda what advantages do the other melee types have over knives/spears? Knives are generally lightweight and have insane dps while spears have reach attacks so you can poke zombies from rooftops so why should I use the other ones?

>>532319970
>>532340706
>>532503636
Ruined by having to turn all the graphical effects off to display the vision radius and light levels so you can actually play the game correctly.

Anyone have the "Is it a roguelike" chart? I have a need for it.

>>532547935
>Is it a roguelike?
>No.

>>531801554 (OP)
Rouge?

Pray for my soul arelgee

>>532561780
Get a pass now and use a VPN.

>>531931439
Unlike others, TLG is simply regularly cherry picking all the work done in DDA over time.

Let's be honest, we're all going to die anyway

>>532577540
>complains about dying in a genre of games notoriously brutal and unforgiving where death is expected to occur constantly
Maybe roguelikes aren't for you.

>>531967969
>the vehicle volume preventing movement bullshit

The funny thing is Kevin seemed to be arguing on the side of keeping that limit there, before he finally ripped it out. worm-girl seemed to be regretting it hard. Or at least the arbitrary limits set.

https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/74897#issuecomment-2225960752

>>532589674
>worm-girl seemed to be regretting it hard.
She can't have been regretting it too much considering she included it in her new fork.

>>532564201
how long can you keep that up though, eventually there will be a desirable update from DDA that can't be backported because of an incompatibility with a new TLG system. It's the same issue that other forks have had.

Did NPCs and quests used to be worse than they are now in DDA?

>>532590484
The major divergence is over the imgui code, right. You'd hope that'd be mostly separate from the actually interesting systems (mapgen, monster behavior, reality bubbles and optimizations).

>>532592494
even for the gameplay there will inevitably be significant disparities if they continue in the way they are going.
>>532591947
NPC quests have been the way they are today for a very long time, as long as I have been playing the game. Individual NPC behavior is also largely the same, the major difference now is in the UI and controls for interacting with NPCs which are a lot better than they used to be.

alright, 44 days after starting stone stoup i have achieved
>3 rune victory with caster
>15 rune victory with melee
>15 rune victory with caster and completed ziggurat

what's next roguelike to beat

>>532593654
CDDA

>>532549192

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6-AN8J385c

living in currentyear makes you wish you were a sociopath instead of autistic

>>531801554 (OP)
>Dwarf Fortress gets Lua support
>check steam recent mods
>it's just a bunch of mods tweaking how gay civilizations are
Bruh

>>532613178
Steam workshop and discord killed modding

chronic pain does not have any of the flair of a sudden single traumatic event, even though that gets better. Ain't that a bitch?

>>532534378
Ruined how? I've been playing 33.1 and it seems fine.

>>532540447
The code for every roguelike is a spaghet nightmare.
Last I looked, CDDA was spending a quarter of the cpu cycles recalculating the body part coverage of every item, multiple times, every turn as part of its retardo bodyheat calcs.

>>532258979
Holy mother of bugs! Are all asian girls this ugly or just specifically this one?

>>532613178
Is there a mod that give you improved moral for stoning fags?

>>532617968
you burn fags, silly.

>>532618089
you throw fags from the top of buildings, silly.

>>532618196
Nae. Don't smoke. Filthy habit.

>>532618267
You cheeky fuck.
Kek.

>>532621105
bug

Am I at mid game in CDDA if I'm getting bored of looting houses and even a mansion

>>532630786
yeah probably
have you built a full forge stack yet

>>532549192
>A mummy curses your weapon and you starve to death
Needing a sharp weapon to butcher was removed so long ago I wonder how many posters here even played the game back then to know that, probably not much

>>532630786
Looting houses is early game outside of trying to get loads of ammonia and bleach because you are too lazy to craft that shit yourself.

>>532630897
Nah, mainly been riding around on my motorcycle and pwning everything I see with Eskrima martial style and a KBAR knife or my AR 15
I'm also playing with Mind Over Matter for the first time but started with level one electricity spells and haven't really used them. I think I'm going to keep doing some quests, train up my spells and then start doing mili bases or labs

>>532631242
I killed hundreds of sludge elf stalkers in the Lair

>>532631678
>outside of trying to get loads of ammonia and bleach
What should I be crafting with these? Sorry, it's been a couple years since I lasted played

>>532631867
I don't know how badly DDA has fucked up the progression loop but you should finish your core forge and tailoring stacks before trying to do anything exciting
are quaterstaves still:
A. good
B. eskrima weapons
because they used to be the best for that

>>532632067
general chemistry requirements
in good forks that you're not playing they're required for mutagens and antiseptic

>>532632067
Ah, I haven't played CDDA for years, in the past it was for mutagens.
I guess that got Kevin'd though.

>>532632830
>>532632328
>crafting mutagens
>not raiding a gorillion labs until you find the specific primers you are looking for

>>532632161
eskrima in general got nerfed when they nerfed stuns.

>>532634885
>primers
See, you've already lost me.

>>532634885
yeah, the way you get mutagens now is definitely better than it was before. looting a few labs gives you enough mutagen to max out, as opposed to spending in game weeks processing salt water and other bullshit into chemicals and then chemicals into mutagens.l

>>532632328
>>532632830
Hitchhikers guide still shows they're used to craft mutagens. Forgot about that
>>532632161
I've been leveling tailoring and got it up to six but don't really know what to craft. I'm wearing jack shit for armor and getting away with it thanks to Eskrima and an artifact with speed boost
What should I be looking to do with a forge? I heard a loaded stick is the GOAT with eskrima
Also, looks like quarterstaves aren't eskrima:
Martial Arts
Bōjutsu
Karate
Ninjutsu
Silat

>>532635146
early game armor is motorcycle touring suit then leather armor suit. mid game armor is tempered chainmail. they nerfed eskrima but it doesn't matter much since martial arts are not even close to the most significant form of character power. as long as you have a style with a grab break that works with one of the tempered steel melee weapons you are good aside from niche scenarios, e.g. needing montante to kill an enemy in melee with retarded levels of armor for some reason.

>>532634904
I want barbaran for my warhammer but haven't found the skill book yet

>>532635406
they made big libraries contain basically every book in the game including martial arts manuals, if you find one you will walk away with like 10+ martial arts.

>>532634885
see, this shit is why I don't play DDA
>>532634904
+2 accuracy is really really good, especially with the rest of the kit
it also has a down, is that still really good?
you fish for crits with accuracy and low move cost moves, which give you a general damage buff which enables a really huge bonus damage combination strike if you can crit multiple times in a row, which you can because you have an accuracy buff

>>532635658
what I mean by nerfing eskrima is that they nerfed stuns in general, and the most common way to use eskrima was with a combat knife to fish for infinite stunlocks, you can't stun zombies at all anymore so that doesn't work.

Aside from that it's the same, and no doubt you can get big damage but it barely matters since landing massive overkill damage doesn't really do anything useful for you in a scenario where you would want to use melee combat, and since most martial arts in the game can be used to get big damage one way or another.

Total bonuses received from artifacts in a 4 runer: +6 dex, rElec.
Scimitars were also the pinnacle of sword technology in this cursed world, and rF+ just did not exist outside of a ring of fire and fire dragon scales.
Luckily you can't lose with Zin, but what were those item drops lol

>>532635941
I've never even noticed stuns or maybe it procs but I'm just focused on blending up everything that comes at me. It's great for these early level mobs

>>532636304
It especially doesn't matter for early game mobs because they are so trivial to kill. with any decent weapon you will blend them even with no martial art at all. and with early-mid game armor you are nearly immune to damage from basic zombies anyway.

>>532635406
euro stuck fighting off zombie hordes with a hammer because he can't get a knife license anymore, tragic.

>>532635941
look man, combination strike oneshotting even mid tier zombies is really good when clearing towns
it's not barbaran montante letting you mindlessly tab but it's still pretty good

>>532589674
clown car crash comedy

>>532637071
kill yourself mutt, your gun rights are eroding as we speak

>>532637365
they just completely removed the tax from NFA transfers thoughever, gun laws are actually getting looser lmao. state hardware bans are heading to the supreme court within a year too where they will likely be ruled unconstitutional.

>>532637071
Amerifat education on display.

>>532637639
>they just completely removed the tax from NFA transfers thoughever
don't you think I know that? I follow your laws and browse /k/ daily
point is that singular states have bad laws, at some point they'll want to ban guns altogether and rewrite the constitution. this is the time you'll have a civil war

>>532637835
we're all amerifats in the MRE and 5.56 filled apocalypse.

>>532637941
>point is that singular states have bad laws,
and they are steadily losing on that front not winning. concealed carry was borderline unheard of 30 years ago and now a majority of states have constitutional carry not just concealed carry. every major supreme court ruling of the last 20 years on 2nd amendment cases have resulted in the expansion and protection of gun rights not the opposite.

democrats literally don't even run on gun control anymore outside of the commie strongholds of NY and california because they know it's a losing issue in the majority of the country lmao.

>>532638224
1/3 of states have straight up bad gun laws from your perspective
the other 1/3 is mid
the other 1/3 is gun heaven
california is a giant rich state, wyoming isn't
we'll see what happens when next administration comes in

>>532638751
>we'll see what happens when next administration comes in
as if that makes a difference, none of the recent gains in gun rights have come from the executive branch and the executive branch has next to no ability to unilaterally curb them anyway since they are constitutionally protected.
>1/3 of states have straight up bad gun laws from your perspective
It's more like 8 out of 50 states lmao. and even among those only NY, CA and IL are the really bad offenders.
And like I said, the bans those states have in place are heading to the supreme court within a year and will likely be overturned, and this pattern will continue for the foreseeable future with the court remaining solidly conservative for 20+ years.

Some chad updated Arcana to one of the newer experimentals: https://www.reddit.com/r/cataclysmdda/s/EnZPeZRSqs
How's it compare to Mind Over Matter?

Scorch is pretty broken in Achra. I'm not a Scorch build but I am stacking "on attack" effects so I put the scorch gloves on and they saved my ass on the final boss. I put 840 stacks on him before running away so it deals 181,000 damage x 42 repeats.

>>532640042
Oh, didn't know about this, cool.

>>532547935
Which one, there are several

>>532661826
Is there a wiki or something with everything Arcana adds? I know there are spells, but also items, new mobs and locations?

>>532651339
After seeing yours I realised I never did a Scorch run, so I did one.
This run was free as hell. Once I got the fire staff I just aggressively stood still and watched things melt once the game turn ticked. Final boss walked up to me, attempted an attack, and instantly lost 80% of his HP. Then again playing as Skeleton Zealot of Pallas I guess most builds are a free win since you get so much defence for free hence can invest more in damage.

>>532631242

i remmeber; i also remember potions being shattered due to ice / cold clouds, haste and dig being castable spells, dragon call being the most OP broken thing ever, and having your abilities go to -1 immediately killing you

>>531801554 (OP)
Pokemom Dungeon is Rouge?

>>532471514
Looking into this and found someone with a similar complaint.

https://github.com/Cataclysm-TLG/Cataclysm-TLG/issues/930

Grabs may be a bit OP but I'm still figuring out when it may have changed.

>>532593161

Looks like the backporting process does create some buggy collisions sometimes.

https://github.com/Cataclysm-TLG/Cataclysm-TLG/pull/714

>>532692047
I think you are confused, I was playing DDA when I had the crazy grabs not TLG.

>>532667585
Pretty sure there was an item/mob list somewhere, might be outdated though

>>532694627
The same bug is likely to be in both codebases and predate the point where they forked.

Maybe it has to do with

https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/65774

Roguelikes where you can kill russians?

>>532698043
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/64999

>>531801554 (OP)
I'm really liking CBN. I just solved the bandit problem in town. She was coming right for me.

>>532675860
>playing as Skeleton Zealot of Pallas I guess most builds are a free win
It's probably the best combo for hitting with your weapon damage. There are other combos with more busted interactions but Skeleton is the way to go if you want to fight the enemies directly. There isn't even a King with astral damage so the one weakness never really comes up.

>>532706434
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/64980

>>532708124
owned lol

rogue like

How is the BYOND roguelike going

do you ever feel like you're just piling up neuroses as you get older and you're just stitching them together around you into what passes as a personality

>Choose DrCj
>Came across temple very early, worship Veh
>Became yellow scaled
Yellow is more melee/transmut than caster, had I waited a bit more I'd have chosen a different god
This isn't that bad, could definitely beat the game but it's annoying enough

Cuck'd

>>532742154
Hot Alien Bitch BEGS FOR Big Barachi Cock!

Play Quazimorph now or wait for more updates?

How can someone as awesome as Kevin even exist?

>>532708124
nice, I've never actually used launchers against a meaningful enemy before, looks fun

>>532732697
yellow is my third favorite color after purple and gray for sure
purple DrTm was a lot of fun
>>532739936
lmao

>>532742154
meep

I beat ADOM once.

>>532756176
I've used one against a spider queen before (it wasn't very effective).

>>532756176
I found a bunch of grenades right before their hideout popped up on my map, so my strategy was to take them and this old recoilless rifle I found and blow up their whole house. It worked pretty well, the rest only took a few bullets to finish off before they could shoot me.

>>531951165
It's nice to play a touhou-theme crawl.

>>532769267
Now at the end of the day I'm starving, and what better meal to have than some JERK jerky? As you can see it's quite enjoyable to eat. I think I'll make a loincloth with their cured skin later after I give their bones to that bone witch.

>>532753363
It's definitely worth playing now since as far as I know all major features have been implemented. Although I think the next major update will be the 1.0 release so it could be worth waiting; no idea if there's a set date for when it releases.

Horror form has been the hardest prestige to win with so far in Achra since it has no armor, no block, and no divine intervention. How it works is whenever you get a kill, it does aoe damage with friendly fire, so it will loop itself if each loop can kill something. Eresh deals damage every time a friendly minion dies and it activates about 50 times a turn if you summon enough fodder.

in bed with a goblin? Have babies with a goblin?

>>532708124
Holy shit lol. If that debris hit you, would it have fucked you up?

In Path of Achra I've been staring at the powers and armoury screens for a while trying to figure out how to make a self-damage build work. There's lots of abilities and items that causes self-damage, but what is something to trigger of taking damage?

>>532778560
i member

>>532796702
Fire healing triggers if you deal fire damage to yourself, and you can scorch yourself with Pyromancy to build stacks for Master Scorch. Also Master Entangle triggers off any self damage (combo with Vineform or Technique to build entangle stacks in melee). Blood Familiar and Gore Chant trigger off any self damage (it is kind of blood's theme).

In the prestige classes, Horror and Pyromaniac can stack buffs on themselves with self damage. Torturer can stack debuffs like Scorch on itself with self fire damage and give them to enemies.

This will sound weird but I've played Diablo 1 and have no desire of playing games with similar gameplay. That means Moria, Angband, etc. where you begin in a village and descend and return back with loot, etc. Are there worthy titles that break out of this mold?

>>532817492
Not a single one. Might I interest you in a nice game of chess?

>>532817492
Cataclysm is the obvious answer.
There are also a lot of roguelikes where there's no village and no backtracking and you just go deeper into the dungeon, if that sounds any better. Sil, DoomRL and Rogue to name a few.

>>532820516
>Cataclysm
You have to descend to the labs so it doesn't count.

>>532817492
tales of mal eyal 4 is more diablo like ever ... but the towns are purely optional to return to since most loot are from enemies and you can transmog unused items in the dungeons for gold
The stealth games (Cogmind, that lovecraft game) might be better for you

what roguelike has the best mage/wizard gameplay

>>532823371
adom

>>532823371
I liked Majeyal's gameplay.

>>532773959
I love goblins