Pagarus Undertale edition!

Latest:
Project Multi is now known as Gekishin Squadra.
XV2 Daima DLC just dropped.
Shallot DLC released for Sparking! ZERO

DRAGON BALL Z: KAKAROT -DAIMA- Adventure Through the Demon Realm Part 1 Launch Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPfh7-8Bdlc

http://youtu.be/v_8qBd-K7SQ

>Useful links:
rentry.org/dft79

XV2 news:
>Future Saga 3 DLC on the way, release date TBA
>Upcoming character: SS3 Vegeta
>Festival of Universes 3 ended, both Universe 6 and 11 won twice between 4 platforms.

SDBH News/Resources:
>SDBH has ended...We are all Heroes! RIP 05/09/24
>SDBH Database: www.carddass.com/dbh/sdbh_mm/cardlist/
>Deck Autism: rentry.org/sdbhdecklist

DBSDV news:
>SDV3 leaked: More Frieza saga, SS3 Goku (Mini-Daima), and Gomah as notable GDRs and Giants returning as an Action Skill
>You can have a team of up to 8 characters (7 cards and an avatar)
>3 card types: Impact, Rush, and Boost
>CAA/TAA have been renamed as Action Skills
>If you collect all 7 dragon balls in-game and summon Shenron, you'll pull an guaranteed Super Rare card
>Avatars can also be Namekians or Fridges
>Avatars can also equip accessories and level up a skill tree
>If you max out your SDBH avatar's level and transfer them over to Superdivers, you can unlock default SDBH avatar skins for your Superdivers avatar

>HOW TO FIND YOUR XENOVERSE 2 SAVE ON STEAM guide:
steam > userdata > [your steam id] > 323470 > remote > DBXV21
DBXV2.sav should be there, which is your savefile
If you wish to delete it to try reimporting or for other reasons, disable steamcloud on both Xenoverse 1 and 2 first.

Kakarot:
>Daima DLC Part 1 will release on July 17th 2025
>Daima DLC Part 2 will release in early 2026

DB The Breakers:
>Season 8 launched with Golden Frieza Raider
>Ultra Instinct Goku transphere

>XV Booru: Upload drawfaggotry here
http://xenoverse.booru.org/

Rest in Peace, Akira Toriyama (3/1/2024)
Thank you

LAST TIME ON /dbg/: >>532917363

I hope Gekishin isn't the only DB game coming out soon. I'm still pissed they've wasted such beautiful looking models on this Pokemon unite clone.

DB The Breakers:
>Season 9 launched with (Z)Broly, Buu Rework (Gohan Absorbed), and Cell Rework (Cell Jr's) Raiders
>No new transpheres

>>533454589
What truly saddens me is that the fusions devs are in charge of it
I don't want it to do well because I hate mobas, but I want it to do well because they can do fusions 2 justice

>>533454772
This spells End of Service pretty hard I wonder how much longer they can keep Kakarot, Sparking Zero and Xenoverse 2 going.

Man, can you imagine in 2028 all those game die and xenoverse 2 is still going?

>>533459378
>Kakarot
It still has all the Z movies, and they have DB and Super if they want to do a sequel
>Sparking Zero
After the Daima DLC, they've still got characters from DB and GT they can add. I heard that the producer confirmed sequels, so they can gradually add extra maps, characters, stories, pieces of the story they skipped in S0, etc, then it can manage.
>Xenoverse 2
Never gonna die, will never get a sequel, and it'll never get interesting. It'll just shake up its status quo once every 3-6 years like it's doing right now and in 2018.

I am kind of curious to see what the next big DB game is going to be and when.

>>533454048 (OP)
these threads suck

https://youtu.be/xAz_miEiVtU

>>533462161
Duh.
>Anime dead
>Manga dead
>No sign of either coming back
>Akio in hiding
>no movie
>Breakers dying
>They messed up making Gekishin Squadra a moba
>Sparking Zero's only content for now is a set of characters
>Dokkan and Legends have been reusing the same shit since Super Hero and they have to go easy on the Daima content because there's not much of it to make playable
>Xenoverse 2's new story is over a year away from concluding and there's a huge chance it's going to be a big fat nothing burger
>Kakarot's second Daima DLC is a year away
>none of these games can adapt Moro or Granolah
We're in a drought and it bleeds into the games.

Captcha=DAYMN

>>533462924
Is Akio really in hiding? He hasn't been in any of these conventions.

>>533462924
>none of these games can adapt Moro or Granolah
Why would you want to? Stop trying to force this shit on us.

>>533462924
It's safe to say that we're back to the gacha games and the occasional DLC being our only means of content.

A lot of people like to compare this to the drought we had before Super even started, but back then we got games (plural) every year. Now we get like 1 a year, a bunch of Gachaslop updates, and shallow DLC.

>>533463421
Stop trying to force your shit opinion. Granolah is really cool and would be fun to play in a game Moro has so many hack abilities. They are both interesting villains if nothing else.

>>533463421
I hated everything about Granolah, but I want a playable Moro and that Susanoo shit for MUI Goku because I'm sick of the generic Super Kamehameha he did on Jiren being his ultimate in games.

>>533463861
go back

>>533463861
Here's the ACTUAL strongest.

>>533414724
>>533415008
Nice
>>533414837
That's probable.
>>533463861
Nobody cares about your filler characters, I'll take Commeson over him.

>>533420567
That would explain a lot really, such a shame too. Vegetafags can't stop ruining even their own good ideas.
The fact I've never seen a single person character about or mention the OG DB parts of Sai is super telling. Even Multiverse has people talk about the OG DB specials.

I finally got Dole Out Vengeance and was under the assumption that you both bestowed invulnerability when you revived somebody and received it when you, yourself, were revived. Even then, I thought it was "just okay" passive, but now I'm disappointed to learn that only you get invulnerability yourself.

>>533474154
It's a Gacha, stuff has to be either useless or stupidly OP with no in-between.

MY HERO!

>>533477390
Insanely based and canon.

Goku? More like....... GoPOO!
Because he STINKY!

>>533478247
How do you explain that then?

>>533478320
Dirty monkey needs it

>>533478541
And he took it so he isn't stinky! You defeated yourself!

>>533477726
>canon
yup yup YUP

>>533478765
Seriously, Goku would make for a killer himbo romance manga protag.
Kinda crazy how common that genre is becoming.

>>533478703
He still has monkey smell.

>>533480298
You smell like a monkey too. What have been up to with Goku?

>>533480682
I smell handsome. Unlike Goku.

>>533481245
Goku is indeed handsome and put his smell on you.

>>533477390
>>533478320
>>533478765
Do the femanons that lurk here really think Goku is hot? Genuinely?

I haven't been around here since xenoverse 2 got released they are still updating with dlc? jesus

>>533481551
eh. maybe some do.

>>533481641
we'll never get Xenoverse 3 at this rate.

>>533481957
Fusions 2?

>>533482057
even less likely.

>>533481551
Everyone thinks Goku is hot, even you.

>>533481957
Is that a no, ma'am?

>>533482214
So you're a femanon that thinks so.

>>533482401
Everyone is a femanon that thinks so.

>>533482509
Proof?

>>533479012
>Kinda crazy how common that genre is becoming.
At some point the usual tropes get changed up a bit, specially once one story establishes a fun plot points others will copy, with their own take.

>>533482697
I thought the boss was more into Goku's father...
but Goku's father also stick 'it' in Mira...

>>533482401

>>533483939
>Implying Chronoa isn't a fujo

>>533485547
Nice tits

I'm bored are we dead? even xenoverse can't really hype because the things people want they aren't gonna get

>>533490840
I'm just curious about the Conton City destruction but I know it'll be a nothing burger

>>533490958
As someone last thread said it probably won't even happen it's just something Fu saw that spurred him to do whatever it is he's trying to do.

>>533491021
>As someone last thread said it probably won't even happen
Yeah, I think that was me unless someone made a similar argument.

>>533454048 (OP)
Can he beat the Roaring Freeza?

>>533497415
>shartnga
ewwwwwwwwwww

>>533463861
I want to ki spam with this fucker's finger guns so badly

>>533481551
Not a femanon but goku is hot, he's just also got a personality that repels romance 90% of the time.

>>533477390
Remove Bulma, her mother, 18, and Videl then this becomes based. Cheating isnt christian

>>533477390
Characters ranked by how many women they pull in canon, fanworks, and fanfics.
>Roshi
Literally everyone.
>Oolong
Almost everyone.
>Goku
Chi-Chi, Bulma, Suno, Android 21, Caulifla/Kefla, Vados, Chronoa, Aeos, Pan, Panzy, Princess Snake.
>Gohan
Videl, Erasa, Angela, Lime, Zangya, Kefla, Cocoa, Bulma, Chi-Chi.
>Trunks
Mai, Chronoa, Pan, Bulma, Chi-Chi, Android 18.
>Goten
Valese, Marron, Fayra, Rulah, Bulma, Chi-Chi.
>Yamcha
Bulma, Maron, Vidro, Puar (transformed).
>Krillin
Android 18, Maron, Bulma.
>Piccolo
Janet, Cynthia, Chi-Chi.
>Tien
Launch and Yurin.
>Vegeta
Bulma.
>Broly
Cheelai.

Goku and most male characters in the franchise have aesthetic physiques which make women horny just looking at them. Goku isn't the most popular amongst women though but they universally find him cute.
Bejita > Goten > Gohan > Trunks > Goku
This is about what I see online from women. EoZ Goten is surprisingly popular.

>>533508716
I've seen Goten x Mai and Goten (and Trunks) x A21. Kale x Goten and Caulifla x Trunks are popular craskships. Gohan x Aeos is super common and somewhat implied in Heroes. Trunks x Pan is common. Goten x Bra is so common I am surprised you didn't include it.

>>533509001
>Goten x Mai
>Goten (and Trunks) x A21
>Kale x Goten
>Caulifla x Trunks
>Gohan x Aeos
Haven't seen much of those, but I'll take your word on it.

>Goten x Bra
To be honest, Bulla just slipped my mind. Same with Mrs. Briefs, actually.

ENTER strongest Z female

>>533509338
Why did he do it?

>>533509297
>Same with Mrs. Briefs
It's super easy to forget about her. People only pair her with Goku or Bejita.

>>533509895
Why was she more buff than Videl?

>>533510397
Toriyama forgot how draw non buff women halfway through the manga.

>>533510539
Videl is a stick

>>533512281
Not really

Salagir's autism has made had this thought for about a week now. Current DB has SS1 be 50x base, SS2 be 2x SS1, and SS3 be 4x SS2. You can mostly ignore the exact numbers and feel that the intention is for SS1 to be a massive boost while SS2 and 3 are smaller boosts. Is this represented in the series? SS2 and 3 feel massive like SS1. I can understand where Salagir is coming from when he has 2 and 3 be massive like SS1.

>>533518094
Honestly the jump with Gohan was less about SSJ2 itself and more about how above everyone else he already was + his potential and rage boost.

>>533518094
I'd argue that super saiyan 3 was meant to be a huge boost. Super saiyan 3 goku was the first person to ever actually hurt fat buu after the entire cast got clobbered including super saiyan 2 vegeta with everything he had. As well as gotenks being able to challenge super buu with it. Super saiyan 2 never felt that strong but I mainly chalk that up to it essentially being the gohan form and nothing else (I don't count prince of destruction, that's more the majin seal than 2 itself, no one cares about normal ss2 vegeta) if you want to count the anime, you can't really deny that the monumentally long transformation scene it got wasn't meant to make it seem strong, similarly to how ss1's transformation was extended

>>533518094
Two times stronger is absolutely massive. If you were keeping up with someone, even if barely, then it doesn't matter if you get 2 times stronger or 50 times stronger, you clown on them now. The only reason SSJ multiplier is so high is that Goku already had kaioken up to 20 at the point he achieved it, so you logically needed something even bigger.

>>533520924
Not to mention that ss2 gohan isnt actually just a 2x boost. It's 2x on top of whatever crazy multiplier his anger gives him. We straight up see this and its what gives him win at the end of cell saga yet people still act like goku and vegeta catching up with cell games gohan isnt impressive as hell

>>533518094
Some people are too dumb to understand anything but big numbers so they go crazy with them, but you don't need such a massive numerical difference to be overwhelmingly stronger than your enemy. Just from the manga itself, Vegeta used to be 18,000 units of PL before meeting Goku but was 24,000 when he fought Cui. Cui was supposed to be Vegeta's equal until Namek, so we know being only 1.3 times stronger (in terms of PL at least) is enough to give someone an incredibly disrespectful death.
SS2 being SSx2 is more than enough, and SS3 being SS2x4 is pretty bonkers, those are MASSIVE power ups already. Honestly the only reason SS1 had to be a big multiplier is because Toriyama introduced Kaioken and made 50% Freeza strong enough to block KKx20 Goku's full power with one hand, so logically SS is forced to be over 40 times stronger than base at the very least. Making SS basex50 and then SS2 SSx20 or something like that is insanity.

SS3 Cell Games Gohan would be able to take out Fat Buu and probably Kid Buu too.

>>533521132
People also forget how much above everyone Gohan was in base, he thought Goku was just fucking around and essentially saw him in slow mo when he fought Cell and that's before really powering up to full power, let alone getting SSJ2 and his rage boost.
And even then he hadn't went all out until the final beam clash.

>>533520628
>As well as gotenks being able to challenge super buu with it
Animeonly please, SS3 Gotenks didn't "challenge" Super Boo, it straight up humilliated him. There's ONE single page of SS3 Gotenks taking the fight seriously and that's when Boo was going to die and got saved by SS3 and Fusion energy consumption

I do believe that if SS1 Gohan went all out he'd be able to beat Perfect Cell/

>>533521230
Yeah, you could make Kaioken increses to be +10% (so Kaioken makes you 1.1, 10xKK makes you 2 etc.) and it would absolutely justify it being a huge boost. But it just wouldn't sound so impressive to a 7 years old.

>>533521502
Ehhhh, if cell actually got pushed back he'd just nuke everything and a ss1 wouldn't have been able to beat super perfect. Personally I dislike that gohan was sandbagging so hard anyways, did he learn nothing from saiyan saga when that shit got people killed? He didnt sandbag at all during namek either

>Playing since launch
>Joined dbg guild since it started
>Guild leader & other heavy hitters MIA for half a year or more
>characters lose viability after the next new character
>back to back complete ASS anniversaries
>No new game modes
>PvP issues still outweigh all of it
>do my dailies & close the game until the next day
>Bored with the game but can't uninstall
Help me bros

>>533521630
Destroying your body and risking genuine insta death for 10% more power sounds retarded and boring. It's shit you'd hear in a min-maxing tabletop game.
>>533521758
>did he learn nothing from saiyan saga when that shit got people killed?
The whole point of Gohan in the Saiyan Saga is that he took all the wrong lessons from it outside of 'don't be a pussy and fight'.

>>533521758
Full Power SS1 Gohan could probably beat Super Perfect Cell too if he got angry.
>gohan was sandbagging
Not a fan either. The pacifism shit came outta nowhere.

>>533521792
>>Playing since launch
>>Joined dbg guild since it started
Which game? Legend or Dokkan?

>>533521927
>the whole point of saiyan saga gohan is that he took all the wrong lessons from it
No? The entire point was quite literally that hesitation in a battle to the death gets people killed. He gets over that and is instrumental in the fight against vegeta and stalling for time against frieza. What exact "lesson" would have helped in either of those cases?

>>533522040
Legends

>>533521927
Exactly, 10% increase doesn't sound impressive, but anyone who'd sit down and count will notice that in life/death situations it's more than worth it (though most tabletop would probably underestimate it still as usually a 1HP character deals the same damage as a fresh one). So it's natural Toriyama went for big numbers.

>>533508716
>Goku
I feel like Videl got a push in more recent years.

>Goten
Same as above. As pointed out there's also Bulla. 18 and Caulifla/Kefla are done once in a while too.

>Vegeta
Once in a while he's paired up with Tights and Bulma's mother,. There's also Bulla. A few times he's paired up with 18.

>Broly
His most popular non-Cheelai ship is Kale.

>>533509001
>Bejita > Goten > Gohan > Trunks > Goku
>This is about what I see online from women.
Women are Vegetafags? Jesus.

>>533522573
>Women are Vegetafags? Jesus.
Women love bad boys. He's the ultimate female fantasy of taking a bad man and "fixing" him by turning him into a faithful handsome husband. He's easily number one.

>Gohan in Cell Games: I don't want to ho berserk and lose control
>everyone: come on, Gohan, release your anger!
>Gohan: *releases his anger and goes full sadist*
>everyone: o:
it's incredible how 30 years later it still flies over people's heads

>>533522469
>but anyone who'd sit down and count will notice that in life/death situations it's more than worth it
Not really, you're basically rolling the dices for an instant death to get a 10% bonus for 1 heartbeat. Nobody in real life would risk their gun exploding in their hands for 10% more accuracy and penetration.
Like Goku would have completely wrecked his body for 40% boost for one attack, AKA a boost lesser than the gap in upper body strength between an average man and an average woman.
It would work for a boost with no strings attach but not one with such big drawbacks.
Only reason it works for Goku to begin with even with massive boosts is basically he's essentially hitting frame perfect inputs the entire time he's using it AND they're so fast that fighting for a single heartbeat is more than long enough.

>>533522797
I read an incredible insight into Gohan once. I'll repost it:

What really needs to be addressed with Gohan is how he's a total asshole when he becomes the strongest. He was a psycho against Cell. He called Buu retarded. He even looks all smug when he unlocked Beast. Every other time he's a nice guy or dependent on Goku and Vegeta but the real Gohan comes out when he gets a power up. I don't know if Toriyama ever intended this but it could be an interesting thing about Gohan to explore.

>but it could be an interesting thing about Gohan to explore.
You could always frame it as Gohan's saiyan blood acting up. While Goku and Vegeta are much more in tune with their innate bloodlust and fighting autism, Gohan denied it his entire life, so when it flares up, he just can't process it in a healthy way and ends up going way overboard.


he always had elements of that to his character, even early on when he all but tells chichi to fuck off when she tries to stop him from going to namek. his gentle side isn't necessarily fake, but he certainly developed a very bejita like cruelty as the series developed. you can even see parts of that in his saiyaman persona.
really think about what he's ACTUALLY doing when he stops to flex and do silly poses in his costume while everyone around him is in a life threatening situation just so he can catch the bullets of a machinegun by hand, save a cute girl and make some criminal shit piss and cry because he flexed an invisible ki field at him
or when he flexes on kibito with ssj2 just to feel himself up and try to psych him out and make him shit himself.
1/2

>>533508716
Goku and Gohan also get literally everyone, including girls from other franchises somehow.
>>533522573
>I feel like Videl got a push in more recent years.
I wonder why. The Goku x Videl doujins I've read were surprisingly good too.

>>533522040
lmao both games have these problems?

I also want to point out that even at school, he's basically 'playing' at being a weak nerd to fuck with people. He lets Sharpner talk all that good shit and then utterly fucking humiliates him in gym class, but if you pay attention to what he's thinking it's not
>Oh no, I didn't mean to do that
it was
>Oh, I didn't mean to do it THAT BADLY, I misjudged my strength
he's a masterful humblebragger even when he's being "nice".
2/2

>>533522329
I tried to get into but the tutorial was too long.
>>533523307
Most Gachas have those issues.

>>533523306
>Goku and Gohan also get literally everyone
This is heavily carried by self inserters. Goku and Gohan have the worst self inserters. Krillin has surprisingly many.

>>533523352
>it was
>>Oh, I didn't mean to do it THAT BADLY, I misjudged my strength
IIRC, it actually was 'Great, nobody suspects a thing, I did a great job holding back'.

>>533523575
>This is heavily carried by self inserters.
And Oolong and Roshi are fully carried by Ugly Bastard fags. So what?

>>533523773
Nothin really, Just an observation.

>>533456372
>but I want it to do well because they can do fusions 2 justice
If it does well then they'll be pretty much confined on it for years to come, no?

Not expecting Fusions 2 because Switch and Switch 2 don't push games with Chibi aesthetic anymore, and Fusions with regular models wouldn't even have half the charm.

Cabba gets alt universe Gine as a cute housewife

>>533518094
SS2 isn't treated as that massive of a boost. Piccolo comments that Goku and Vegeta would never be able to defeat Buu with SS2, no matter how many there were. In BoG Beerus doesn't really care about it too, it's only when Goku used SS3 that Beerus reacted like the fight would be fun. I think this is why SS3 has such a big jump, it could easily be 2x SS2, but the power it's implied to have is meant to be overwhelming.

>>533521502
I don't know about that, Cell was holding back the whole time, and Goku talked like Gohan only stood a chance if he unlocked his potential.

>>533521935
Goku also says that Gohan isn't unleashing his full power because he's afraid of destroying Earth. Also while the series itself hasn't talked about it, Toriyama mentioned in interviews that things like confidence and courage make you stronger, and letting yourself lose control of your emotions will mess up your ki control (or something among those lines), and I feel that applies here. Gohan screwed up, lost confidence, he now feels weaker because of it. We also had Nappa throwing a fit when fighting Goku and being overwhelmed, but when Vegeta ordered him to calm down, Nappa fought Goku better to the point Goku himself and Vegeta were thinking the battle would take a long time to end.

In short, emotions affect your ki. I don't know why the franchise never explained this at any point, having Korin or Popo explain that to Goku would make sense...

>>533524575
Yuppy yuppy. Gohan wasn't confident he could beat Cell. He always had the power to do so even as an SS1. Being unconfident lowers your power just like in real life.

>>533524575
>I don't know why the franchise never explained this at any point, having Korin or Popo explain that to Goku would make sense...
Because it's cultural common knowledge in Asia that's shared by almost all settings with Ki / Supernatural Martial Art genre.
It'd be like explaining that it take mana to cast spells or what stat points are in RPG Fantasy type Isekai or a cross in a church.
Same reason they didn't feel the need to explicitly explain the whole 'tingly back' thing with Caulifla, anyone who grew up in asia with it's cultural influences, spiritual beliefs and all that stuff is just gonna almost instantly be like 'Lmao, did she really just hotwire her way to Super Saiyan?!'

>Lmao, did she really just hotwire her way to Super Saiyan?!
Manga did this better by not showing how she got it and by not giving her SS1 and 2 in the same day.

>>533525679
>Manga did this better by not having the concept and cool reference at all
No.

Caulifla is quite literally a random thug, not a master martial artist.

>>533526039
Caulifla is someone even Cabba's mentor and superior in the Saiyan army said was stronger and better suited for the TOP than him.
Same Cabba who was SSJG tier without even knowing what SSJ is.
It's not different from the joke about Goku just copying Roshi's Kamehameha because 'Monkey see, monkey do' being an actual literal power in Journey to the West.

>>533523306
>I wonder why.
Probably to increase the amount of women Goku is fucking, but I'm not sure, sometimes what becomes popular is inexplicable. Oolong went from barely getting anything to being Roshi 2 in more recent years.

>The Goku x Videl doujins I've read were surprisingly good too.
Any recommendations? I only saw one by Hazama Null, two of Videl and Goku in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, and some short ones FunsexyDB has drawn.

>>533526297
>stronger
Doesn't mean better at martial arts. She was bad.
>Same Cabba who was SSJG tier
We love Toei powerscaling here
>It's not different from the joke about Goku just copying Roshi's Kamehameha because 'Monkey see, monkey do' being an actual literal power in Journey to the West.
Slight agree here. Still left a bad taste in literally everyone's mouths. Tenshinhan also called the Kamehameha a basic technique. The scale in difficulty to achieve is much different.

>>533526851
>sometimes what becomes popular is inexplicable.
Seems like people just liked the first doujin a lot and it started a trend, sometimes it all it takes.
That or people just decided that turnabout was fair play with how much Gohan fucked Chichi.
>Oolong went from barely getting anything to being Roshi 2 in more recent years.
True, it's crazy to have seen the change in real time.
>Any recommendations?
I think you already named all the good ones.
I didn't know about the funsexyDB ones, any link?

>>533527382
I think off screening it like almost every Saiyan post Goku did is a good decision. The DBS Manga did it better.

>>533527382
>Doesn't mean better at martial arts. She was bad.
And she got better at a stupidly rapid pace while being younger, that was the entire power.
>Muh Toei
It's the same in the manga.
SSJ1 and 2 are basic as fuck by the time Caulifla get them too, it's the same thing. You can even compare the effort Goku took to achieve SSJ with Roshi's 'It took me 50 fucking years to make that move, come on'.
Goku just lasted long enough to be the one to get that done to him by young punks, just like he did to the older generation.

>>533527579
>I think off screening it like almost every Saiyan post Goku did is a good decision
It isn't.
> The DBS Manga did it better.
It didn't.
>>533527382
>Still left a bad taste in literally everyone's mouths.
Only a handful of westerners who were autistic enough to get mad but too retarded to just google the reference care about this at all.

>>533527908
>handful of westerners
>The majority of the western fanbase (the majority of DB fans) is "a handful"
People to this day complain about it

>>533526039
SSJ has nothing to do with martial arts.

>>533525185
>Because it's cultural common knowledge in Asia that's shared by almost all settings with Ki / Supernatural Martial Art genre.
DB still explains things that are common knowledge, such as "You're wasting too much movement" and "You must have a calm heart", all of this because Goku himself wasn't aware of them, so having someone explain to him you mustn't lose control of your emotions for better ki control would still make sense. Or they could also have Goku himself explain that to Gohan, since he very clearly struggled with his emotions.

>>533528079
>3 hood weebs on twitter is a majority of the western fanbase
Nice delusion.
>I still whine about it to this day!
You hardly count as 'people'.

>>533527496
>Seems like people just liked the first doujin a lot and it started a trend, sometimes it all it takes.
Sometimes it's an overly dedicated autist. I've heard there was only one guy doing OolongxBulma hentai, but he did it for long enough that it became popular to use Oolong.

On the Naruto side, someone did the same think with Raikage, though it was apparently for spiteful reasons?

>That or people just decided that turnabout was fair play with how much Gohan fucked Chichi.
I've also wondered if that was the case...

>True, it's crazy to have seen the change in real time.
For real...

>I didn't know about the funsexyDB ones, any link?
It turns out there's only one and it's short. My bad, could swear there was more...

https://e-hentai.org/g/814418/1b13cf8060/

>>533527496
Thewritefiction has a Goku x Videl. He has a few Goten x videl, adult and ss.

>>533330473
>>533330920
This talk reminded me of pic related.

>>533516556
Damn that looks good, is this the only Erasa vs Videl pic around?

>>533523306
Besides the obvious ntr reasons, if i have to do huge reachs to explain it videl and goku have ryu and sakura vibes, and if you think about it, videl is almost tailor made to be goku's ideal wife

>Tuffle Quest
>"All right... so, what do you need to restore Shenron?" you ask, Goku and Chi-chi nodding.
>"Modeling glue."
>....the four of you stumble.
>What.
Kek. Wish it wasn't a joke and Kami actually needed it.

It was a little disappointing Kochin was involved with King Piccolo, they had a falling out, but we never saw any of it. This arc really showed the downsides of the story happening exclusively from Maple's point of view, since what other characters were doing, and who got killed, was alluded to but never shown. Maybe this is why Kato made more characters later...

It also seems the story won't let Goku lose either his tail or Nyoibo, since it wasn't cut off yet, even when he was fighting Grandpa Gohan, and he flew to Kami's lookout, makes me wonder if he'll still use it even as a super saiyan...

Towa was probably the one who gave King Piccolo the means to become so strong, but I'm wondering why she bothered, she could deal with everyone on her own.

aie

>>533548813
>Wish it wasn't a joke and Kami actually needed it.
If I remember correctly, that is a joke in Dragon Ball, Popo used modeling glue to fix the Shenron statue.
>Towa was probably the one who gave King Piccolo the means to become so strong, but I'm wondering why she bothered, she could deal with everyone on her own.
Have not played or read this Quest but I know that cunt, and she will rarely ever deal with something directly. Towa loves to play the smug, slightly lazy manipulator, even when she could handle things on her own. She's probably conducting yet another "experiment."

>>533463421
Everyone wants Moro and Granolah to be adapted, dude. Hell, Spike included manga moves into Black's and Vegeta's movesets.

I can't wait for the day we get Moro in a game.

>>533556430
>If I remember correctly, that is a joke in Dragon Ball, Popo used modeling glue to fix the Shenron statue.
You're right! Never noticed Popo holding that tube of glue.

>She's probably conducting yet another "experiment."
Likely, when she debuted she was annoyed when seeing Goku but did nothing, only made a bet with Melee, showed up again to give Melee her reward for winning the bet, then left.

>>533556716
He's in almost every DB game, come on, what more do you want?

>>533563140
Cell wishes

>>533563140
Cell (Hitler absorbed)

>>533463219
I doubt he's in hiding. I think the only reason he hasn't been seen in these conventions is because he's spearheading this legal dispute and since Toyotaro, Torishima (Shueisha reps) have been in them, it'd make things awkward.

I won't lie though, I'm sure there's also a chance he's been in way over his head with this capsule corp thing, got lucky with Daima, and now with Toriyama gone he's been trying to find some way out of the hole he dug himself in.

I'm downloading the entirety of Fenyo's, Toriyama's, and DBSKaeru's entire catalogues. Is there anyone else I should nab?
Im also downloading ever piece of DB official art.

>>533565017
>Toyotaro, Torishima (Shueisha reps)
They weren't Shueisha reps. Torishima parted ways with Shueisha 10 (ten) years ago. Toyotaro still works for them, but he was there in his own name. Whenever asked any questions about future of the franchise they just replied not to ask them since it's not in their power.

>>533565253
Dragon Garow Lee. Also, this is a good collection of official promo art https://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/

New Hyper DBZ build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_mE1be7ZFw

>>533530831
>It turns out there's only one and it's short. My bad, could swear there was more...
It's okay, anon, it's already something!
>>533540119
>if i have to do huge reachs to explain it videl and goku have ryu and sakura vibes, and if you think about it, videl is almost tailor made to be goku's ideal wife
Good point actually, especially since Pan already feel more like a Goku daughter than a Gohan one.
>but I'm wondering why she bothered, she could deal with everyone on her own.
Fucking around like that results in more bullshit energy being generated from the changes in history, that's how DBO and Xenoverse justified it.

>>533565983
>11 year anniversary

>>533555739
RIP.
Surprising amount of effort in that animation.

>>533566718
To be fair, like 5 of those years were essentially a hiatus because COVID fucked up all their projects and lives.

'A New Tournament' is one of the worst DB doujins I've ever read since we're talking about smut.

>>533567279
It's incredible a doujin managed to do a shonen "Everyone gets their highlight dragging down the plot", and it doesn't have a plot to begin with!

The weird interplay of fighting and fucking is odd, it's supposed to be comedic but the jokes don't land... Coomer bodies for every female too, no variation.

>>533569463
>It's incredible a doujin managed to do a shonen "Everyone gets their highlight dragging down the plot", and it doesn't have a plot to begin with!
Right? I still don't even understand how they pulled that off.
It's almost impressive to fuck up that hard in such a unique way.
>The weird interplay of fighting and fucking is odd
The ONLY time that worked to be somewhat hot was Goku vs 18 and then never again
Also if you can't cum in 1 page, you just can't cum to that doujin, it keep cutting off to another 'fight' every page so you don't actually get any sex scenes, just random 'sex panels' I guess.
>Coomer bodies for every female too, no variation.
I mean, it's porn so I don't mean the coomer bodies but they are all identical, the only difference is the head, hair and MAYBE skin color.

>>533467452
>The fact I've never seen a single person character about or mention the OG DB parts of Sai is super telling.
The only thing from it that could be interesting was Android Taopaipai, as he could be a plausible threat to Vegeta in power, and better martial art expertise. But Taopaipai lost any personality he had, acted like a robot, and Vegeta was still far stronger than him anyway. So lame, like an Isekai...

>Even Multiverse has people talk about the OG DB specials.
That's because of the implied history they have (Android Yamcha, Turtle Master Krillin, Videl with Z sword), but the specials about their past are lame. What if Goku wasn't sent to Earth and how was Bulma's initial adventure up until the 21st tournament? Grandpa Gohan went along with her and it was pretty much the same (Save for Grandpa Gohan winning the tournament)! That tells us nothing!

>>533572991
>But Taopaipai lost any personality he had, acted like a robot
Reading the chapters again, no idea why I thought he was like 19 in that regard, when fighting Vegeta he is fine... He is too obedient of Gero though, even calling him "master", and waiting before Gero finished his speeches before he got to fight, doesn't feel like Taopaipai still (Who's very arrogant and impatient), although him being a coward and immediately surrendering to escape is in line with him.

>>533565983
I looked at Dragon Ball Legends and sighed

>>533565983
>moving over to IKEMEN
that should be a good thing, but considering how long it took them to put this out...

>Tuffle Quest
>Characters are watching news about Mifan's new emperor
>"Ah, here he is, the new King!" the reporter declares. Cameras move up to the palace balcony, a familiar-looking woman and dog person flanking... the form of... a... blue imp...
>"Is that Pilaf?!" you almost shout in surprise. Krillin, Acer, and even Bulma seem shocked by his appearance.
I expected Chaozu, but this is much better!

>>533576603
Oh hey he actually became a ruler of something other than a castle in the middle of nowhere

had the idea for a Pride Troopers raider.
>Level 1 is Dyspo
>Level 2 is Top
>if Top takes too much damage, he auto evolves into a Level 3 Destroyer Top who cannot evolve further but gets health back
>if regular Top collects enough energy to evolve into Level 3 Jiren
>if Jiren takes too much damage he evolves into Level 4 Full Power Jiren

>>533481463
>Naho Ooishi lurks among us

>>533583885
That's using Jiren twice, potentially Toppo too. It'd make more sense to do something with the other jobbers before Dyspo joins in as level 2...

>>533584347
most raiders are the same guy for all four levels. I was trying to cut down on the number of Ginyu Force reskins, and I liked how the new Z Broly gives you two different evolution paths so I wanted to come up with something similar. both Top and Jiren are notable for their God Ki transformations, it seems like a waste to skip out on them, or to skip out on their base forms.

This is boring I wish xenoverse 2 owould at least give us new hairstyles or something

Why do games hate him

>>533589014
His ToP performance wasn’t great. I think that’s the only reason.

>>533591394
Kahseral's fight with 17 was decent.
>but
17? Needed to use his shield against him.

>>533592354
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpJy01ct4EI

If this is the best he got... No wonder he's ignored...

got these today

>>533593583
Oh hey I've had those before. They're all right.

>>533593232
>made 18 fucking FLEE
>conquered planets singlehandedly (Saiyans needed troops to do this)
>helped defeat an alien that gave Dyspo trouble
>FORCED 17 to shield up
What. A. CHAD.

>>533593838
That point about the alien monster made me wonder; that monster fight made us think they were building up Kahseral to be relative to Dyspo and Toppo, and Belmod spoke so highly of him. He also had way more screen time than any Pride Trooper not named Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo. So, why did the ToP make him look mediocre at best?

The ToP was so retarded.

>>533594542
Same reason Krillin got so much build-up prior to the ToP, only to get caught by surprise by Frost so early in.

>>533594542
I think there was a change of plans. IIRC, didn't Dyspo have a different personality in his debut compared to later where he's more arrogant?

>>533594884
Jiren was originally going to face Goku in the prelims and his personality was more like Toppo's

>>533575349
What does that mean?

>>533595157
IKEMEN's basically an upgraded open-source version of MUGEN that has a lot more engine customizability, which i expect they'll probably spend plenty of time dicking around with while 'porting' the characters over (which considering IKEMEN's innately compatible with MUGEN characters is more likely to do with adding new shit or fixing things that previously needed workarounds)

>>533595954
Sounds pretty cool. Honestly I don't think the port is what took 5 years, the description mostly blame COVID

>>533596656
yeah they haven't done the port yet that's what's next apparently, but COVID wasn't exactly 5 years long so my worry is that they'll get so caught up with fucking around with the shiny new toys that it takes another 1-2 years somehow before we even get the port, never mind new characters

>>533596870
That's a pretty legitimate fear, yeah

>>533565983
>Yamcha still not in the game
>but Chiaotzu is
TFS was a mistake

>>533603163
Payback for all the times Yamcha got in but not Chaozu.

>>533603342
You died to Nappa.

>>533603163
>TFS was a mistake
But in TFS itself Chaozu is still sidelined. Yamcha got more moments than him.

>>533603643
And Yamcha died to something slightly weaker than Raditz, what's your point?

No die

>>533566689
>especially since Pan already feel more like a Goku daughter than a Gohan one.
in hindsight is very common how this line is used in doujins, it goes back to even that old doujin of roshi fucking pan drawn by muscleman where pan admits she is goku's daughter, so the concept isnt new

>>533531894
Goten x Videl has always been a fairly popular /ss/ pairing. probably the second most common after kid Goku x Bulma.

>Get a Level 1 Buuhan as the Raider
>Gotten good at picking up ST so go for Lv4 build. Afterimage to get out of melee, Dragon Fist to armor through supers, Power to Change the Future, TBAA, and Beyond Super Saiyan
>Keys take forever to find and plan, ST drops right before we get the STM up
>3 People have died, one person is level three besides me, other two are 1&2
>Dangerous Ground gives me a ton of rocks to loop the raider around to avoid supers and get close enough for melee
>Beat the absolute shit out of him, bring him down from full HP to 1/3rd 1v1 before I finally lose all my health, one other guy dies in the crossfire while other two work on the ST
>Buuhan instantly kills 3rd to last guy when he spawns, we're down to 2, last guy hides
>Starts chasing me when I go for the other ST but makes the critical mistake of going back for the STM so I get Vegito
>Last guy hiding valiantly jumps in and gives his life to stall just long enough for me to arrive
>Beat the shit out of Buuhan till the STM activates
It only happens once in a blue moon, but Breakers can have some hype moments. I can't remember the last time I actually felt powerful as a Level 4/ST with how gutted they got over time. What a mismanaged game.

I'm actually mad about the STM going off because I fully believe I could've killed Buuhan with another 2 minutes. I should've let him destroy the STM.

>>533612317
I think the core issue is there's too many survivors per match. it makes it too unpredictable to balance matches, and it makes it so you have to queue as a survivor for a dozen times before you get a raider match. I think if they narrowed it down to 3-4 survivors and adjust the balance around that player count the game would play a lot better.

>>533548813
>Maybe this is why Kato made more characters later...
She also took to trying to write up some extra things here and there if I recall correctly, though it's only Kai (and some small parts of Z) that we get the full switching protagonists thing. Certainly helped I think.

>It also seems the story won't let Goku lose either his tail or Nyoibo, since it wasn't cut off yet
We were pretty adamant about him keeping both, and I think he even develops some moves using his tail.

>>533556430
>>533560687
Towa pretty much kept throwing her experiments at us or using us as a tool to help her schemes along. Probably not helped by us choosing to play into the kinda rivalry that developed between them as more theatrical, even if half the time it involved trying to mock her for being an obsessive NEET.

>>533576603
Oh hey you're almost at the tag team tournament. Those were fun.

>>533612662
I kind of agree. One of the biggest problems with asymmetric games like this is balancing randos vs premades. Breakers ran afoul of the worst of both problems for a while. Part way through the game's lifespan the power creep became so bad that even partial premades communicating could render a raider utterly helpless and Survivors became too oppressive. You weren't locked in with the Raider, the Raider was locked in the game with (You).

But then, they went so far in the other direction balancing around premades and meta skills, new players or randos are kind of turbo fucked unless they all happen to be running highly meta skills, which only come from the fucking gacha, orthe raider is kind of a scrub. But it doesn't matter for premades anyway because the powercreep is so absurd they'll stomp all but the most godly raiders and even they have to sweat their ass off to win by the skin of their teeth and they'll still lose more often than not.

I get that in a TEAM GAME, you don't want one person able to do too much, but with 7 people they took that idea too far. Back in Season 2-4, as a level 4 I could have literal 2-3 minute long battles with a Raider 1v1 and still not be dead, which admitedly was probably a little overtuned on the survivor end. But now, a decent raider will beat the ass of a level 4 in 20-30 seconds 1v1 unless the Raider is so low HP they can't keep rushing in for melee.

>>533614094
another change I'd make is ban premades from ranked.

>>533612681
>She also took to trying to write up some extra things here and there if I recall correctly, though it's only Kai (and some small parts of Z) that we get the full switching protagonists thing. Certainly helped I think.
Hopefully it's used well. King Piccolo's arc might be the worst one, because way too much was going on offscreen since the focus was exclusively on Maple (Other characters fighting King Piccolo's sons, Roshi, Shen and Chaozu being killed, King Piccolo becoming young again, King Piccolo teaming up and betraying Koichi), it felt like entire plot points were rushed because of that, and if it weren't for the entire confrontation with Darkness to get the Ultra Divine Water, the arc would be just the usual King Piccolo but worse... And even that confrontation was kinda weak, since anons generally picked the "right" choices, and that made Maple way too self aware about how things work and emotionally in control, so how she dealt with Darkness was almost too easy.

>Oh hey you're almost at the tag team tournament. Those were fun.
I read the first chapter, I'm surprised Taopaipai's partner is Yajirobe, how did that happen? Having Tien and Chaozu not be each other's partners was also good to vary things.

>>533603163
Fucking CELL is still not in the game. They have very lopsided priorities.

>>533589014
It's not that anyone hates him, he's just one of dozens of tertiary ToP characters, obviously vast majority of them is getting cut (and he at least got into gachas which is still better than most). The sheer size of that arc's roster is insane by DB standards. Most DB sagas don't have more than 20 characters actually playing active roles (and then some of these 20 aren't combatants). Red Ribbon Army characters often suffer the same fate because there's too many of them. If you want someone that stands up like a sore thumb it's Pui Pui and Yakon since DBZ characters comparable to them get in all the time, and it's really just them who are treated like this.

HAMEHA

>>533624879
ka

>>533563140
>replies to a post about Moro
>posts green Cooler
?

At first I thought that was a Cell Jr and therefore out of character for SS2 Gohan (he only starts smiling after the giant Kamehameha) but it's Cell so it's in character

Fenyo never misses

You ever think about how the super spirit bomb doesn't really make that much sense? It was never established nor even really implied (or really make sense) that people willingly giving their power makes it way stronger. Its also rather weird that vegeta would suggest it because what they needed at that point was an attack that would completely vaporize buu, and vegeta was already hit by the spirit bomb and it absolutely did not do that to him

>>533548813
The whole towa thing with king piccolo is something that I have something of a gripe with in dragonball fanfiction. The cast is almost always way sttonger than they are in canon and the author has to find ways to make the plot work despite that. Stuff like the androids and frieza are usually fine since theyre such large jumps but OGDB struggles pretty hard. Just having towa buff them is kind of the least interesting way to do it, though

>>533643917
in most cases, Goku only pulls a little bit of energy from a localised area with the spirit bomb, which is why the one he used against Vegeta was so tiny. the one against Buu though he pulled everything short of killing people from just about every living being in the universe. it was like getting hit with a pebble vs getting hit with a meteor.

>>533643917
You're overhinking it, making it more of a black box than it is. It's clear that Goku didn't take all the humanity's power when hitting Vegeta, so he just considered "what if he did". Especially that willing power sharing is an established concept. Genki Dama is just a a handy technique to gather it all in one place.

>>533646161
Are you sure youre not thinking of the universal spirit bomb from GT? The super spirit bomb only ever pulled from the people of earth and the namekians (plus otherworld if you count filler which really should have been more than enough on its own but whatever)

>>533646446
My issue is would vegeta know that, though? It feels pretty out of character that vegeta before buu saga would ever just ask how the spirit bomb works.

>>533646463
pretty sure Goku said he was collecting everything from the universe. Toriyama just drew earthlings and namekians because he didn't want to invent a dozen different alien species to only appear in one panel.

I think the implication is because Goku's heart is pure the grass, trees, animals, sky, water, and bugs willing gave up their energy for the smaller spirit bombs.

>>533646656
Then it's weird that somehow a bunch of humans specifically giving their energy is the decisive factor. We see the spirit bomb before and after humanity gives their energy and earth alone seemed to be most of the size

>>533646645
It's been 11 years since then by that point. Plenty opportunities for that to happen. E.g. Yamcha could be telling Bulma about hs training with Kaio and that there's this technique Goku learned and used on Namek, with Vegeta overhearing. We know that Gohan visited Briefs household fairly often between Cell and Buu too, so it could just pop up at any time.

>>533646656
No, you're confusing two things. Goku asked kaioshins if they can let him speak to the whole Earth, and when they said they can't do that, then Kaio dropped into te convesation boasting he could een make him talk to te whole universe if he wanted. Goku didn't need it, so he only talked to the Earthlings.

>>533647363
I just double checked and Vegeta dismisses King Kai's suggestion but not definitive (silly of him to say "it would be overkill", given the stakes). regardless, Yemma does get a panel to say otherworld gave their energy too.

>>533647897
I forgot to mention, Goku was also absolutely knackered at that point and could barely push it. Dende wishes for Goku's power to be restored and he then instantly overpowers Buu. it might have been the case he didn't even need earth's extra energy, just needed his own power restored.

Can someone post a side view of Launch? I cant find one fsr

For me its funny that gohan was probably just hanging out somewhere at the check in station and could have solved the whole kid buu thing very easily. Like sure he was arrogant against super buu but it was really gotenks that fell for the bait not him, and its not like goku and vegeta weren't super arrogant themselves against kid buu

>it was really gotenks that fell for the bait not him
Average Gohantard opinion

>>533648638
I don't even like gohan that much and I feel like the series never really knew what to do with him, I just feel like Gohan gets endlessly slandered for super buu when no other character does so for making similar mistakes (IE goku with frieza, if not for king kai being the GOAT and chaining dragon balls goku would have fucked up big time)

>>533648986
>I just feel like Gohan gets endlessly slandered for super buu when no other character does so for making similar mistakes
This much is true. Gohan, Goten, and Gotenks get all the criticism and none of the love. It doesn't help they get nonsensically shafted in every sequel to Z.
Gotenks getting absorbed was 100% Gohan's fault. He allowed that shit to happen despite knowing it was a setup.

>>533648284
Fenyo opus saved me

>>533649478
DSLs

Do people actually believe SS2 is only x2 because of Daizenshuus? Just looking at how much stronger Cell was than any of the SS1s and how much stronger Gohan himself was, it's easily a x5-10.

And no, Gohan wasn't sandbagging against Cell. He didn't really want to fight but he'd have lost no matter how serious he got. In fact he WANTED to turn SS2 the moment Cell refused peace but couldn't.

>>533661560
> it's easily a x5-10
No it's not. You just want bigger number. Super Saiyan is already supposed to be x50, simply doubling that is a massive amount of power. I can even help you understand the math if you need to actually see the numbers to understand this.

Say something starts off at 600 million, if you double that, it becomes 1.2 billion. That's more than enough to overpower anyone 700 million, 800 million, or even more given just how much a difference in numbers that actually is.

>>533661560
Read the Manga. The one time Gohan ever punches Cell in SS1, Cell gets knocked the fuck back. He never once took the fight seriously until SS2 and the rage boost.

>>533662447
I don't want bigger numbers, in fact I always preferred thinking Kaioken didn't multiply your strength by fucking 10 or 20 because that was always retarded OP. Super Saiyan being a x50 "kind of makes sense" if you go "yeah Goku used Kaioken x20 on Freeza 50% so just double that and add a bit more, x50 there you go" but it's wildly inconsistent generally speaking (base form doesn't appear to be THAT much weaker in a lot of moments, even though being x50 weaker would mean instant death normally).

Regardless of SS1/Kaioken, we actually saw 50% SS2 Gohan hold his own against and defeat Super Perfect Cell who should be much stronger than Perfect Cell. That's as explicit as can be. But honestly I didn't even need to think about that to see that SS2 appears to be way more than x2. Cell was able to kill all of the Super Saiyan 1s back there with ease, even tired. It wouldn't really make sense if he was merely 1.5x stronger than a SS1, or even worse, as strong as SS1 Gohan (which is profoundly retarded)

>>533662654
Gohan was very much taking the fight seriously. This is right after he kicked Cell and he's explicitly not able to follow

>>533663204
>nooo you don't get it Gohan was still sandbagging on purpose, that's what Cell means when he says "get mad", not "awaken the hidden power you can't control normally"!

>>533663329
And honestly this is probably the stupidest part of this "SS1 Gohan can definitely take Cell!" bullshit.

>our only hope... is that Gohan stops being a retard and fights normally - wait, did I mention awakening hidden rage power? No, we just need him to stop being a little bitch and just punch Cell hard

>>533663441
>HAAAAAAAAAAH TIME TO SHOW 30% OF MY KI

>>533611609
I mean even End of Z basically had Goku act as Pan's girldad while she barely even interact with Gohan so that probably influence that perception a lot.
> it goes back to even that old doujin of roshi fucking pan drawn by muscleman where pan admits she is goku's daughter,
Sounds fucking wild.

>>533644147
In Tuffle Quest Towa didn't directly buff him, but gave him a similar device that Babidi uses to steal people's energy, so it's not just giving up purple energy that makes him a little stronger.

That being said, it effectively the same thing, since we never really see his sons stealing energy, and whatever his teamup with Koichi was happened entirely offscreen...

>>533660653
Cute

>>533661560
>Just looking at how much stronger Cell was than any of the SS1s and how much stronger Gohan himself was
SSJ1 isn't a level, it's a multiplier, not all the SSJ1s were equal and Gohan was stupidly above them in the same form without even trying.

>>533460508
>I heard that the producer confirmed sequels
SAUCE? GOD I WISH THAT'S TRUE

>>533665732
>stupidly above them
Not really. Well, I can buy Gohan being a 15 to Goku's 10 but not much more.

>>533661560
>Do people actually believe SS2 is only x2 because of Daizenshuus? Just looking at how much stronger Cell was than any of the SS1s and how much stronger Gohan himself was, it's easily a x5-10.
No Salagir, there is a lot of room for Cell to outclass SS1s while still being far weaker than Gohan's SS2. If Cell's power is 1 billion and SS1 Gohan's is 800 million, then SS2 would put his power at 1.6 billion.

>>533666248
>Salagir
I fucking KNEW someone would call me Salagir I even hesitated to call it out preemptively.

Get your head out of your ass. I'm probably the #1 DBM hater here.

>Cell's power is 1 billion and SS1 Gohan's is 800 million, then SS2 would put his power at 1.6 billion
50% Gohan beat Super Perfect Cell.
If Cell was merely 25% stronger than Gohan then there would be a reasonable chance to believe they had a chance to beat him by ganging up on him. Goku was weaker but not that much weaker than Gohan. And Vegeta/Trunks were even stronger than a tired Goku so they're weaker but not by magnitudes. Ganging up on Cell would be an option. Except it's not, he's so much above SS1s (Gohan included) that the only hope they have is SS2.

It's also crazy how people are attached to this "x2" figure specifically. It's from a Daizenshuu, this shit isn't canon. How about x3? Or x4? It doesn't have to be x10, but why do you think it HAS to be x2 other than Daizenshuu stupidity?

>>533666757
I mean, no multipliers past goku's x20 are actually "canon" in the sense of being explicitly stated in the source material, anon. Super saiyan 1 being an x50 thing was also supplementary material. At best you can just kind of infer that super saiyan is nebulously above x20 somewhere

>>533667480
I agree, quantifying any of that (and even specifying whether it's "multiplier" or something else) is kinda foolish

Super Saiyan makes you super strong, and the level above it makes you even stronger. That's as far as it goes in the DB logic

>>533666757
>Get your head out of your ass. I'm probably the #1 DBM hater here.
It's the same logic Salagir has used for making SS2 a 500x multiplier, I couldn't help myself!

>50% Gohan beat Super Perfect Cell.
I've talked about this here >>533524575. Goku during the kamehameha struggle itself was saying Gohan was holding back, and the explanation for ki Toriyama gave in later interviews does line up with this moment and the Nappa fight about how emotions affect your ki.

Plus if Gohan was literally at 50% power then the whole thing doesn't make sense, because then it would mean SPC was only about half as strong as Gohan, but that can't be the case because he broke Gohan's arm to begin with, while trying to kill Vegeta, not Gohan. So their strengths are comparable even before the broken arm.

>It's also crazy how people are attached to this "x2" figure specifically. It's from a Daizenshuu, this shit isn't canon. How about x3? Or x4? It doesn't have to be x10, but why do you think it HAS to be x2 other than Daizenshuu stupidity?
I don't care that much about the multipliers themselves, I just think Gohan didn't literally lose 50% of his power just because of a broken arm, as I explained above.

>>533667480
You can assume SS1 is around a x40 multiplier given that x20 kaioken failed, anything after that is too nebulous.

I wish x20 kaioken didn't happen, it's because of it that multipliers "have" to be so absurdly big... Thank god the manga never commented on them later, and we just have a vague sense of how strong characters are, like before, but I wish the numbers and multipliers were dropped earlier.

>>533668780
>That's as far as it in the DB logic if you ignore DB's actual logic and what it actually says
Most retarded statement in history.

>>533668967
If you have any kind of common sense you'd know that Toriyama never cared about that shit and "Super Strong!", "Even Stronger!" and "Even Stronger Stronger!!" is the extent of it.

>>533669070
>If you had any common sense, you'd know the retarded nonsense I just made up and ignore Toriyama's own word in the matter
How about no?

>>533668956
>Goku during the kamehameha struggle itself was saying Gohan was holding back
Yes, then 40% or 30% SS2 Gohan is losing to SPC but 50% SS2 Gohan can win with some help from Vegeta. Nothing contradicts me.

>because then it would mean SPC was only about half as strong as Gohan, but that can't be the case because he broke Gohan's arm to begin with, while trying to kill Vegeta, not Gohan. So their strengths are comparable even before the broken arm.
Sucker punches can go a long way.

Well, I'm going to meet you halfway, and say that claiming this was "50% SS2 Gohan" is an instance of taking statements literally even when they mean something else. This could also just mean "Gohan lost one of his two arms, hence 50%". I can buy Gohan not being literally at 50%.

Still. SS1 Gohan was nowhere near Cell's level, and x2 multiplier seems way too small given that Cell was hopelessly above Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo, even after tiring him out, and able to spawn 7 Vegeta tier Cell Jr like nothing.

>>533669309
lol, lmao
Yes, I'm sure Toriyama made some autistic calculations about multipliers and powerlevels instead of writing whatever he felt was cool (while still keeping some reasonable level of consistency naturally).
Hmm, what's that? The sound of Goku and Vegeta using SS1 against Super Buu instead SS2? Lol.

the real reason super saiyan 2 doesn't feel as impactful as super saiyan 3 is that its design kind of sucks on anyone that isn't cell games gohan. Goku and adult gohan's hair barley changes and vegeta's doesn't change at all. Same reason people forget full power super saiyan/FPSS4 even exist

>>533669661
>Yes, I'm sure Toriyama made some autistic calculations about multipliers and powerlevels
It doesn't require a calculation to give out multipliers and power levels, which Toriyama did. The multiplayers and power levels come from him.
>H-h-hmmm I made a gay sassy statement! T-t-take that!
And that's supposed to change what Toriyama said because?

>>533669973
Toriyama never gave official multipliers (Daizenshuu aren't him) and just giving out numbers doesn't mean he wrote with said numbers in mind

Toriyama doesn't care about multipliers or even the idea of Super Saiyan 2 being a big step up, because he'll gladly have Goku and Vegeta only use SS1 against Buu for no reason at all. It's that simple.

>>533669661
>Retard want to force his dogshit interpretation that is contradicted by every official info
>Reddit spacing everywhere
Every single time.

>>533670382
>Toriyama never gave official multipliers
Yes, he did, he even talked about the SSJ1 multiplier.
> (Daizenshuu aren't him)
Daizenshuu got their infos from him and his notes from when he wrote DB.
>Toriyama doesn't care about the stuff he himself directly stated and stayed consistent on for decades.
Or, get this, you're wrong and retarded.

>>533670382
Hell, even the original x50 was never consistent.

Pic related. Unless you want to believe Kid Buu was powering down to literally 1/400th of his power for some reason and Vegeta still thought this was a good idea to try and fight like that. Yes, Buu is playing around but I call absolute bullshit on these insane numbers. I also call bullshit on Goku not telling Vegeta he'll instantly die without Super Saiyan if the rules were clear and established.

The much simpler, more logical interpretation is "Super Saiyan is stronger, and Super Saiyan 2 is even stronger!!" and that's it. Some numbers might have been discussed in an interview (the one where Toriyama said it felt more like 10x at first but Kaioken caught up)... but that's meaningless overall against the way this manga was written.

>>533670406
>>533670653
>Daizenshuu slurpers
>muh notes, trust me Toriyama wrote this!! He cares about everything there even though it contradicts everything!!
>Noooo you're retarded for pointing out the manga never gave a FUCK about these rules

>>533670947
By the way, still ZERO explanations for Goku and Vegeta not even bothering with Super Saiyan 2.

>>533670947
>Y-y-you dare care about something official more than my fanfic, you're a slurper!
>Someone else wrote Toriyama's notes from when he wrote the manga and it was a body double at that interview!!!
>I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT THE MANGA SAYS SO IT DOESN'T CARE EITHER!!!!
So you were indeed wrong and retarded.

>>533669661
>Sucker punches can go a long way.
Not if the difference is overwhelming. Goku as a kid was hit by what were essentially sucker punches multiple times but he walked it off because he was that much stronger. Goku himself as an adult hit much stronger opponents with sucker punches and all that did was annoy them (Such as when he kicked Freeza's head after tricking him with kamehameha), and we've had other situations like that too, such as the multiple times Nappa was sucked punched, and he wasn't worse for wear.

Gohan himself comments that Cell was stronger than he thought too, so their powers were comparable, broken arm or not.

>>533671115
That never made any sense...

>>533670947
Reddit space harder, I'm sure it'll convince someone to believe your dogshit interpretation. (it won't).

>>533671220
>fanfic
I'm autistic, but not enough for fanfictions.
>Someone else wrote Toriyama's notes from when he wrote the manga and it was a body double at that interview!!!
I think Daizenshuus are 98% written by other guys and Toriyama gets there and says "okay sure whatever", with maybe 2% coming from him.
>I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT THE MANGA SAYS
The manga clearly says Super Saiyan 2, or 3, aren't really that much of a big deal, since Saiyans wont bother with 2 when facing strong opponents sometimes. Except the manga also says the opposite against Cell. And then the manga also says Base is actually not that bad since it is even CONSIDERED to fight Kid Buu, the guy on SS3 level.

>>533671410
Yes, I'll Reddit space all I want. You're free to run away like the little bitch you are.

>>533669661
>SS1 Gohan was nowhere near Cell's level, and x2 multiplier seems way too small given that Cell was hopelessly above Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo, even after tiring him out, and able to spawn 7 Vegeta tier Cell Jr like nothing.
You're missing something absolutely crucial. Gohan is special. When he gets angry he powers up several fold as seen against Raditz and Freeza. SS2 Gohan is more than 2x because he got a huge rage boost. Normal SS2 is 2x.
Cell also got SS2 but his boost wasn't nearly as large as Gohan's. Gohan's rage and hidden potential are so high even enraged SS1 Gohan could beat SPC if he went for the kill shot immediately. Normal SS1 Gohan is probably weaker than Perfect Cell.
That's the most consistent interpretation I have found.

>>533669924
Truearoo

Btw the multipliers dont come from the Daizenshuu. They come from the Super Exciting Guide iirc

>>533671496
>I'm autistic, but not enough for fanfictions.
Your fanfic right now says otherwise.
>I think
What you think doesn't matter. You made a whole ass fanfiction about what happened with 0 evidence and contradicting Toriyama's own fucking word on the Daizenshuu saying it's accurate.
>The manga says it's not a big deal despite hinging 2 different arcs on them
Absolutely delusional.

>>533671582
At least your interpretation is interesting and doesn't try to pretend there wouldn't be a lot of ground to cover to go from the regular Super Saiyan 1 (Goku) to Gohan's Super Saiyan 2. It's just that your interpretation says this huge amount of ground is because of Gohan's rage boost instead of multipliers. I don't really know if it makes sense, but I'm fine with it especially since it's not more muh multipliers shit.

>>533671496
That's a good obedient reddit spacing faggot, still won't convince anyone.

Toriyama in that quote where he commented on SS1 being a 50x multiplier, but he wrote it as 10x, does explain moments like pic related...

>>533672086
>but he wrote it as 10x,
He actually said it FELT like a 10x as he wrote it, that's different.
I guess he just didn't manage to depict a 50x in a manner he found convincing.

Toriyama 100% was just a vibe based writer. He has directly stated whatever he found cool in that moment is what he drew. Don't try too hard to apply ruthless logic to a kid's comic. He never once planned shit that far ahead.

>>533671834
>Your fanfic right now says otherwise.
Interpretations aren't fanfictions.
>Toriyama's own fucking word on the Daizenshuu
That's not Toriyama's word, that's the gay book they sell to children in Japan to make money. It's as canon as Toei's anime and movies.
>The manga says it's not a big deal despite hinging 2 different arcs on them
You will NEVER explain pic related because there is no way to explain it. because it was never supposed to be explained. Because you're an autistic faggot on an imageboard discussing a decades old kung fu comic book made for children and stating "YES every single one of these transformations and powerups and strength level was written with intent, internal logic and care for consistency" even though the (now dead) author was trying to find the best paint for his car instead of your autistic shit.

>>533672292
Thank you, some common sense around here for once.

>>533672086
This too. You know why Base Gohan can handle SS Trunks? Because that Gohan is an adult and the master so he feels stronger so it's a nice way to show he's above Trunks and teaching him how to fight.

A shitty writer like Salagir would never have that because of multipliers autism and muh x50. But Toriyama's version is actually better storytelling for anyone other than autistic fans.

>>533672319
okay but seriously what WAS up with toriyama and super saiyan 2. We got gohan using it to get sucked off but not using it against dabura. Goku and vegeta using it against eachother but not against buu for whatever reason

>>533672319
>Interpretations aren't fanfictions.
When they are based on nothing and contradict Toriyama's words and every official info on a topic, it is.
>That's not Toriyama's word
Yes, it is, he literally wrote a pre-word on the book saying how accurate it is. Are you so deep in denial you're gonna pretend they made a fake Toriyama quote?
>Why won't you care about my micro detail I'm obsessing on
Because it doesn't matter, you're just autistic and latch on to that moment.
>WHAT TORIYAMA SAID IS YOUR AUTISTIC SHIT!!!! HE IS DEAD SO CARE ABOUT MY FANFIC INSTEAD!!!
Lol, no.
Also you're the self admitted autist here.

>>533672581
>Thank you
Ew, you thought what I said was in support of your retardation? Learn to read.

>>533672696
Somewhere down the line Toriyama felt a distaste for SS2 and 3. He probably invented a stamina issue or some shit for SS2, plainly forgot it existed, or didn't feel like drawing it.

>>533672581
>But Toriyama's version
You mean the one with the multiplier you're super mad about? That he created, wrote and repeated consistently since their creations? Which were then repeated by every other official source?

>>533672732
>based on nothing
Based on reading the manga and seeing how inconsistent it is with these things because of how Toriyama writes
>he literally wrote a pre-word on the book saying how accurate it is
Are you actually 10?
>hey Toriyama-san we're going to print the guide, please add a word saying how it shows everything there is to know about Dragon Ball and how accurate it is! Thanks
That's exactly how it went.
>Because it doesn't matter
>I choose to disregard your point because... it doesn't matter okay???
I accept your concession.
>Also you're the self admitted autist here.
I'm autistic enough to debate these things on a Saturday, sadly, but also self-aware enough to know how a children's comic book is written and how much consistency is expected.

>>533672927
Don't care about your gay "support". I appreciate the common sense nevertheless.

>>533672581
>Thank you, some common sense around here for once.
There are legitimate autists here who spend all day sperging out the second a debate happens. I dont think the guy has anything else going on in life

>>533673102
>I appreciate the common sense nevertheless.
You appreciate the common sense saying you're wrong? What?

>>533673079
If you take these "official guides" seriously you're retarded, it's really that simple. You're a simpleton if you think Toriyama actually took time of his day to write these things. You're even more retarded if you think that not only did he write these things but they were in his mind as he wrote the manga back then.

There's nothing else to add. This isn't an issue of multipliers and powerups. This is an issue of common sense and how children comic book artists work.

>>533673256
>the common sense saying you're wrong
Where exactly?
>Toriyama 100% was just a vibe based writer. He has directly stated whatever he found cool in that moment is what he drew. Don't try too hard to apply ruthless logic to a kid's comic. He never once planned shit that far ahead.

That's exactly what I've been saying from the start. None of these "logical rules" were ever a thing, none of these supposed multipliers were kept consistent, it was never supposed to be a thing. Toriyama didn't care, and you're retarded for caring.

>>533673103
>There are legitimate autists
Such as the anon you're talking to

>>533673102
>Based on reading the manga
Which disagree with you and who's author said you're wrong.
>Only a child would believe official info rather than my fanfic!
Cope.
>TORIYAMAN LIED!!!! IT IS NOT ACCURATE HE LIED!!!!
Meltdown harder, it's hilarious.
>Proving me wrong is a concession!!!
Cope harder
>I'm autistic enough
We noticed.
So final objective conclusion since you're running away: Toriyama is right, the multipliers are right and your fanfic is wrong.

>>533673823
why did I expect anything from you

>>533673328
>You're dumb if you actually take what the franchise says over my word
I really don't get why you decided to make your autistic hate boner against multipliers our problem but pretending DB and Toriyama didn't make those multipliers won't make you right.

>>533673823
>Strawman arguments
You are fucking obnoxious holy shit. Go outside nigga

Since Salagir gets talked about a lot, what other dragonball fanfic gripes do you have, whether it's a thing specific to a fanfic or just tropes in general. Something that i've always had a bone to pick with is saiyan empire wank or the thought that saiyans would be generally amicable to training. Saiyans always came off to me like bullies who don't even really like fighting as much as they like beating up a weaker guy, hence why the oozaru button was pressed the second they got outmatched

>>533673927
Nobody ever expected anything from you for very good reasons.
SSJ1 is 50x, SSJ2 is 100x, SSJ3 is 400x, that's Toriyama and DB's logic, cry about it.

>>533672961
I think it's more that when Toriyama really takes a fight seriously, he'll tend to have a character powerup and appear strong (pic related) which is when he'll bother adding the distinctive features of SS2 (or the SS3 at all in Goku's cases)

Basically if it doesn't matter too much, just SS is enough to convey the idea the character isn't fighting nerfed

>>533674085
>What I said is a strawman, stop proving it wrong!
>Proving me wrong is obnoxious! *upset hood weeb noises*
Learn to read

>>533672287
>Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point.
Him saying he felt it was like that while drawing does mean he was writing it as 10x.

I do wonder how Toriyama mastered the art of talking so vaguely. He said "10x what it was up to that point", which is occasionally interpreted as "He was thinking of Goku's Kaioken". We also have an interview where he talks about Freeza and Cold, and the way he talks about Cold in Japanese can either mean there isn't a mother, or there is but she doesn't matter.

>>533672292
Yeah, while DB has some internal logic to it, it's not autism math, and it's for the best. While not math, Jujutsu Kaisen has some autism going on with its combat system, with it being so strict, while also having characters finding so many loopholes (SPECIALLY Sukuna), that it just got annoying...

>>533673504
>Where exactly?
In the reply I made that you were somehow desperate enough to think agreed with you in any way.

>>533674167
I know we're being a bit negative right now but I just got to say i've always loved how kid buu fights. He plays around a lot with the bubble gum anatomy and it's always really fun to watch no matter how many times I see it

>>533674323
Forgot pic related...

>>533674091
>tropes in general
Making kids look exactly like their parents. Multi colored hair. Making characters names either nonsensical within existing naming schemes or overtly simplistic/stupid. Not having any information anywhere about what exactly your comic or whatever is and where to read it from the beginning, Tracing. Lack of originality.
I have more but these come to mind.

>>533674323
>Him saying he felt it was like that while drawing does mean he was writing it as 10x.
No, that's not what it means at all, when you actually write stuff, there's a massive gap between what you're writing it as and how it feels as as you write it.
It's like when you write someone as smart, you're writing them as smart but they can easily feel smarter or dumber as you write them.

>>533674323
>it's not autism math
There's nothing autistic about directly stated straightforward multipliers.

>>533674331
I literally copy and pasted the original post, and it's EXACTLY what I've been saying. Toriyama is a vibe based writer. That's my entire point. I don't care about what YOU think, the sentence
>Toriyama 100% was just a vibe based writer. He has directly stated whatever he found cool in that moment is what he drew. Don't try too hard to apply ruthless logic to a kid's comic. He never once planned shit that far ahead.
is perfectly in line with what I've been saying.

Call me an idiot or whatever you want and voice your disagreement with me, I don't care. That sentence is what it is.

>>533674323
>Him saying he felt it was like that while drawing does mean he was writing it as 10x.
It does feel like that, yes. Big enough that it makes no sense to not use it whenever you can and base doesn't really compare, but not huge enough that base is complete shit compared to it. Basically close enough that you can have the rules bend a little and get fucking base Vegeta to try and stop Kid Buu for a while.

>>533674363
He's really cool yeah. I like that SS2 Vegeta put up a fight at the start.

>>533674772
>I don't care about what YOU think,
You clearly do since you were desperate to misread what I said as support

>>533674772
>That sentence is what it is.
And it is disagreeing with you quite directly.

>>533674772
>but not huge enough that base is complete shit compared to it.
It actually is more than huge enough to make it complete shit compared to being 10x stronger, what are you on about?

Toriyama is a vibe based writer. This is irrefutable

I truly don't understand what would make a man so obsessed and so devoted to Kaizenshuu.

General observations like "the manga doesn't seem to have these rules in mind" or "I don't think the author really gets involved with that kind of merch, certainly not on that level" are just parts of a normal discussion. They could be more true or false (for instance it's probably impossible to disprove SS/SS2 multipliers being at least SOMEWHAT inconsistent with >>533673504 and >>533672319 ) but they're just basic reasoning.

On the other hand, sperging out about how VALID and OFFICIAL the Kaizenshuus are and how THE FRANCHISE has STATED the CANON numbers feels like a cult's way of thinking.

>>533675141
And the vibes said SSJ1 was 50x, SSJ2 was 100x and SSJ3 was 400x. This is irrefutable.

>>533674998
>You clearly do since you were desperate to misread what I said as support
I'm not a faggot who needs "support" from anonymous posters on anonymous online discussions about comic books.

I saw a sentence. It said "Toriyama is a vibe based writer and didn't plan this ahead". Which is what I've been saying. So I answered "yes, this is what I've been saying, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see that common sense". I can't read your thoughts, but I can read your sentence and that's what it means.

>>533675138
>It actually is more than huge enough to make it complete shit compared to being 10x stronger
Based on Kaioken numbers, yes. Based on future portrayals of base and SS, not so much.

>>533675242
You're literally the only one who brought up that website

>>533675393
>I'm not a faggot
Reality would disagree.
>who needs supports
And yet you're still desperate to claim that what I wrote is somehow supporting you.

>>533674091
>what if gripes
>everything stays the same
>no couple changes or anything
>Gohan stops being a nerd and always starts training this time around regardless of the what if topic


>Something that i've always had a bone to pick with is saiyan empire wank or the thought that saiyans would be generally amicable to training. Saiyans always came off to me like bullies who don't even really like fighting as much as they like beating up a weaker guy, hence why the oozaru button was pressed the second they got outmatched
this is funny how hard it has been retconned, saiyans were not a warrior race, just a bunch of savages opportunists. the strongest saiyan was vegeta and he was an average frieza troop at most, but saiyans have been whitewashed so much after toriyama retcons and vegeta going on and on about saiyan pride and yadayada

>>533675393
>I saw a sentence. It said "Toriyama is a vibe based writer and didn't plan this ahead". Which is what I've been saying. So I answered "yes, this is what I've been saying, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see that common sense". I can't read your thoughts, but I can read your sentence and that's what it means.
The guy you're arguing with didnt say that btw. That was me. I dont know what he's trying to get at

>>533675393
>Based on Kaioken numbers, yes. Based on future portrayals of base and SS, not so much.
That's a pointless and subjective distinction.

>>533675462
Meant Daizenshuu*, not Kaizenshuu (nor Kanzenshuu, the website).

>>533675593
So he was pretending to be you all along? It felt weird from the start.

>>533675593
>>533675680
>Pretending to be me to claim support
Pathetic

>>533674091
>what other dragonball fanfic gripes do you have, whether it's a thing specific to a fanfic or just tropes in general.
>Vegetafagging
>Gohanfagging
>Shameless tracing
>Author outsmarting the setting
>Small fights that last for a really long time
>Fusion spam
>Making everyone relevant, causing the plot to become REALLY SLOW
>Bad dad Goku, good dad Piccolo
>TFS influence

>>533675657
>pointless
Not really. THAT is subjective.

>subjective
There's nothing subjective about characters fighting at least somewhat alright in base form.

Want more numbers? SS1 Goku is at 3000 Kiris, Yakon at 800. Base Goku can do just fine against Yakon, and according to Gohan, they can take out Yakon with the two of them without going Super Saiyan. This isn't a x50 situation.

>>533675549
>saiyans have been whitewashed so much
This was gay and I'll never acknowledge it. It just ruins the entire vibe of the Saiyan arc.
>>533675872
>Unironically using inspect element/4chan X
Seek help dude. Take the fucking L

>>533675872
Why are you pretending to be me?

How were Saiyans "whitewashed" exactly?

>>533675940
>Not really
Not an argument
>somewhat alright
Subjective meaningless qualifier.
I do not care about your non-sequitur about Kiris, a metric we have no actual info on.

>>533676162
Pic related is probably not in the minds of any writer nowadays. Neither Super, nor the fanfictions. The Granolah arc really didn't go that way

>>533675883
>Making everyone relevant, causing the plot to become REALLY SLOW
This is absurdly common in fanfiction and i've never liked it. Tien had ONE good showing in cell saga where he stalled imperfect cell and people think he deserves to be relevant when in actuality he got essentially humiliated in both the 22nd and 23rd budokai. Goku countered everything tien threw at him in the 22nd so badly that tien was forced to ragequit and blow up the entire arena, and even then only won through luck and then proceeded to job to a mook goku oneshot in the maou piccolo saga and was humiliated again in the 23rd
Don't even get me started on yamcha, I like wolf fang fist as much as the next guy but god damn there's just not that much for him to do

>>533676037
>Just give me the fucking support I want
Not happening, you were wrong and got jumped for it, get over it.

>>533676319
Anon we quite literally see the saiyans genociding Granolah's planet. Bardock is uncharacteristically good and I agree with that, but saiyans in general are still conquering genocidal monkeys. Bardock even has to lie to another saiyan that there's no people left alive.

>>533676197
>noooooooooooooo Toriyama wrote the Kiris in logarithmic form!!!!!!!! But the scouters units and multipliers are all linear... because I said so!!
Super Saiyan is a x5, sorry man. Goku is 600, he can take Yakon (800) in base form with Gohan's help, but he can also powerup to 3000 with Super Saiyan.

That's not me, that's Toriyama. Sorry bro.

>>533676319
How the fuck does that show them as "whitewashed?"

>>533676482
I agree that they didn't turn them into boyscouts, but they also turned them into objects of pride and such.

Goku had to learn to fight from Bardock. This is canon now, lol. Even though he's multiple WORLDS ahead of the entire Saiyan race experience wise. This is so fucking stupid.

>>533675242
>I don't understand why everyone would take an official piece of information over my fanfic
That would be because you're retarded.
>General observations like "the manga doesn't seem to have these rules in mind" or "I don't think the author really gets involved with that kind of merch, certainly not on that level"
Those aren't general observations, those are objectively untrue and disproven statements.
>are just parts of a normal discussion
It is not normal to deny official information and pretend everyone is just lying, a normal discussion would have had you looking at what the manga, the author and the available official information, which you're incapable of because you're just having an autistic meltdown due to your autistic fixation against multipliers.
>but they're just basic reasoning.
It is not. At all. There's no reasoning to 'Toriyama lies whenever he disagrees with me'.
>sperging
It is not sperging out to point out you're wrong and that official information confirms it.
>It is a cult's way of thinking to look at official information rather than my fanfic.
Lol, no.

>>533676669
As I said, I agree that the bardock stuff is really dumb as well as saiyan pride being a real thing. Pride my fucking ass they seemed perfectly content to just go monkey mode and give their opponents zero opportunity to fight back

>>533676325
>>Making everyone relevant, causing the plot to become REALLY SLOW
People really think they want this but they don't actually want it. Small condensed casts > huge ones. Toriyama constantly condensed the casts and swapped characters in and out of the spotlight.
Out of all the characters here, only one was still relevant at the end of the manga.

>>533676669
You are making even less sense now.

>>533676802
Yes, I've been calling you out specifically. I'm not even going to engage with your retarded shit again.

>>533676497
>That random meltdown
Show where you got that info from then.
>That's not me, that's Toriyama
Show Toriyama saying that then.
Everything you said so far has been at best subjective nonsense.

>>533676869
In a normal manga, characters like tien and yamcha would have been killed off permanently during saiyan saga, cutting out useless characters that the author doesn't really want to write anymore. But since the dragonballs mean they cant die, but also you cant really write someone like tien giving up, they just kind of hang around forever

>>533676885
The manga already handled the subject of Goku being a Saiyan and it was done with far more taste than Super's "muh Saiyan pride" shit.

It is true, in Super, that Goku and Vegeta both needed a good dose of old Saiyan heritage to get ahead. Even though they were WAY beyond any of the Saiyans shit at that point in their lives and training.

Trying to do any character development post Namek/Cell Arc for Goku is a fucking disaster. He really should have continued with the mentor role. Buu Arc Goku is a dumpster fire.

>>533677014
>Show where you got that info from then.
Yep, there it is.
Super Saiyan? x5. That's just how it is.

>>533677112
How does that show them as "whitewashed" though?

>>533676935
>Yes, I've been seething at everyone who proved me wrong
We noticed.
>I was wrong, I know it and I'm ashamed of it so I won't 'engage' but it hurts too much so I'll still reply like a pouting kid to feel better
Cool to see you're learning your place. Now repeat after me SSJ is 50x, SSJ2 is 100x and SSJ3 is 400x, only a sperging autist would disagree.

>>533677271
>Yep, there it is.
It doesn't say what you said. Now show where you got that info from.

>>533677230
What are you talking about? Cell and Buu arc Goku are perfect. They build up on Namek Goku in all the ways they should. These are the two arcs where he gets to be the mentor.

>>533677271
>I was only pretending to be retarded!
Fooling nobody.

>>533677230
It's not like goku's reasoning for leaving at the end of cell saga holds up to any scrutiny. Like sure he technically caused the androids and cell but it's not like his death would have made those problems go away, trunk's timeline proves this and yet trunks never calls him out on that

>>533661560
>Just looking at how much stronger Cell was than any of the SS1s and how much stronger Gohan himself was, it's easily a x5-10.
See >>533521230 retard
Let's say SS Gohan had a PL of 18,000,000,000. Cell could atomize him with two fingers by having "only" a PL of 24,000,000,000. And then someone with a PL of 32,000,000,000 could atomize both Cell and SS Gohan.
So SS2 could be LESS than a SSx2 multiplier.

Reminder that Cabba is stronger than SS3 Gotenks in base

It's really obvious we're getting swarmed by /dbs/ refugees, all their seething at Dragon Ball is really jarring when /dbg/ actually likes Dragon Ball.

>>533677285
Maybe not "whitewashed" in the sense that they still commit crimes but at the very least praised for their pride and knowledge of fighting that fucking GOKU doesn't have after the Buu arc. And then you have Bardock saving poor innocent people onscreen while only killing fighting soldiers (even though Saiyans go to genocide entire planets anyway) so that you don't feel he's too much of a bad guy. This is selective writing

>>533677638
Doubly so since they are the only demographic autistic enough to seethe against the multipliers when everyone else has long accepted them.

>>533677495
I already responded to this. If Cell was only 33% stronger than Gohan then 5 vs 1 with Goku and the rest would at least be an option. It's not (confirmed by Goku) so it certainly appears that there's a lot more ground to cover than 33%.

>>533677495
Power levels aren't linear.

>>533677646
That's am entirely different issue than them being "whitewashed" that's just Toyo being a Bardockfag. Just like Oishi being a Bardockfag for the Super Saiyan Bardock one-shot.

>x50

>>533675593
>>533675872
>>533676037
>>533676053

>>533677510
Kid Gotenks*
Goten and Trunks get massive powerups by the time SH happens
>>533677478
I'm not even talking about that. I liked when he trained Gohan up and had faith in him over himself. That is the next step from Goku on Namek. Iiked how he gained a new perspective of life after getting the heart virus.

>>533677821
33% stronger is less than the gap in upper body strength between an average man and an average women BTW.

>>533676669
>>533677112
Are you honestly so genuinely stupid you think Goku and Vegeta can't attain wisdom from previous generations just because they are stronger than them?

>>533677919
They certainly aren't depicted the way they used to be back then.

Like, yes, we see them killing armies as Oozarus, like we used to do back in the 90s, but... Do you truly feel the Saiyans are perceived the same way as pic related nowadays, both in story and fanbase? Toriyama never talked about embracing the pride of the Saiyans in the same way as they did in Super (the Vegeta burial is very different).

>>533678191
Given that Saiyans had no wisdom and were retarded murder hobos who had long lost their way as a species and ended up as Freeza's little battle slaves? Yes.
Especially since Goku at that point is close to Enlightenment.

I don't like goodboy bardock at all. I liked it when Saiyans were a ruthless heartless warrior race who didnt give the slightest fuck about each other's survival. It made them feel like actual bad people.

>>533678191
Goku has trained with multiple masters, divinities, aliens, even went to the afterlife to learn everything there was about fighting. He's the best living martial artist, maybe dead too. There's no way any of the arrogant Saiyans would possess any wisdom he doesn't have.

>>533678303
>Toriyama never talked about
Yeah, cause that was written by Toyotaro.
The DBS Broly movie, actually made by Toriyama says Goku and Broly are the true pure saiyans and it's the rest of their species that got it wrong.

>>533678465
old toei understood saiyans better than senilyama, the bardock ova was amazing at showing how ruthless they were and when bardock needed them the most they laugh at him

>>533678083
I do like how Goku had absolute faith in Gohan's power. But it's still really weird how it was executed.
I think Toriyama should have had goku get his ass beat against cell much harder to really sell that he had nothing else up his sleeve. We've seen Goku with his back up against the wall before against Vegeta and Frieza and those looked way different than he did when he was supposedly at the same point against Cell. Him also not telling Gohan the plan doesn't really make any in universe sense and only exists to be a suprise to the reader

>>533678303
You are going entirely off vague, contradictory vibes and not any hard facts. This is stupid.

>>533678572
>The DBS Broly movie, actually made by Toriyama says Goku and Broly are the true pure saiyans and it's the rest of their species that got it wrong.
Did it say that? I don't remember.
Either way, that'd be in line with "most of the Saiyans were pieces of shit and they deserved their fate", as shown in >>533676319

>>533677821
>this retard thinks ganging up on someone is the same as adding all your powers together into one guy
Three SS Gohans wouldn't beat a Cell that is a 33% stronger than a single SS Gohan, just like three Cuis wouldn't have beaten Vegeta, Vegeta would have oneshotted one of them, then the other, and then there's just the original Cui left who jobs the same.

>>533678465
>I don't like goodboy bardock at all
Bardock was always a goodboy Saiyan. In the original movie he loved and protected his team like family and ended up caring for Goku in general.
In Minus he only cares about his wife and doesn't leave other saiyans to die for the lolz and only cared for Goku as a stand out one time thing when faced with the idea of imminent destruction.

>>533678741
It's not additional but surely 5 vs 1 would still be a possibility.

>>533678465
>>533678619
This is why Saiyanfags deserve less.

>>533678619
Bardock OVA will always be THE Saiyans for everyone.

>>533678697
>Did it say that? I don't remember.
That was the subtext that Toriyama then explicitly stated in an interview.
That's why Goku tells Broly he can call him Kakarot, because he recognized him as a true pure saiyan and thus felt comfortable with his saiyan name in relation to Broly.
>>533678741
A man is 50% stronger than a woman and yet 5 women ganging up on a man is likely to work.

>>533678682
Goku not telling Gohan not even once "you are stronger than me so if i cant beat cell i need you to take over" is the most absurd thing ever

>>533678682
>Him also not telling Gohan the plan doesn't really make any in universe sense and only exists to be a suprise to the reader
Maybe it's a "you perform better on the real day" thing? Telling Gohan could have made him freeze on the spot. Besides, Gohan understood the plan instantly so it didn't change anything.

I really like these two's relationship btw

>>533619252
Wow, I guess being the general of the entirety of the Pride Troopers and having the 4th most screen time of the whole group means nothing. Make way for generic Freeza soldier #200, everybody! If anyone knows anything about roster variety, it's Spike and Dimps, amirite?

>>533678368
Saiyan wisdom in regards of their nature and mindset you absolute retard. Of course Goku, who has no memories of being a saiyan, and Vegeta who was a what, 5yo? When the saiyan culture disappeared, could learn from the previous generations.

>>533678538
>there's no way his mind can learn because he's already the best at fighting
Do you even read yourself? Hell why do you think Goku went to train with Kaio in BoG despite surpassing him in the saiyan arc? Being stronger than someone doesn't mean there's nothing you can learn from them.

>>533678931
Inferior to DB Minus btw. In both style and character.

And the next complaint will be about how the U6 Saiyans are "pathetic" compared to U7 even when U7 Saiyans are only worth a damn because of Goku NOT being like the rest.

>>533679173
the only thing i like about minus is Gine and its purely for coom reasons since her design and hair is cute

>>533678901
I just think female saiyans are really cute okay. I don't buy saiyan empire wank and I think that vegeta showing that you can conciously do zenkai abuse helped to really ruin this species in fanfic but monkey girls with cute tails and cool transformations are peak
>>533679169
why do you think Goku went to train with Kaio in BoG despite surpassing him in the saiyan arc
That's kind of a bad example because he was mainly there for King Kai's planet allowing him to hit himself with his own blasts for training

>>533678692
We wouldn't be seeing "embrace the Saiyan's pride instead of their sins!" back in Toriyama's time, that's my point.
And we wouldn't see Goku's "that's why they deserved their end" nowadays.

Doesn't have to be a hard fact to be accurate. You know exactly what I mean by that and you know that I'm very likely right on that. It's just how a brand expands, popular stuff loses its edge to be more viewer-friendly. Here, the Saiyans. You can't have asshole Bardock anymore, and not just because of DB Minus or Toriyama changing his mind, Toei wouldn't want to make asshole Bardock nowadays, they'd rather make him a lot easier on the eyes of the audience.

>>533679169
>Saiyan wisdom in regards of their nature and mindset
Which they are retarded and wrong about to the point of spamming Oozaru and not even being able to use SSJ, their race's true power.
So still 0 wisdom.
No, there is nothing a bunch of retarded thugs could teach Goku and Vegeta.

>>533679169
>there's no way his mind can learn because he's already the best at fighting
He can still learn stuff. Just not from a bunch of barbarians who never evolved or exploited their potential. The Saiyans were shitters.

>>533678830
Yeah I'm sure five Cuis could have beaten Vegeta, lmao

>>533679269
Something something, muh muscle. Please forget Fasha was far from a musclegirl and was literally Bulma sized.
>>533679316
Also King Kai is a coach, not a fighter, his wisdom is in making good training methods, not in being an oonga booga thug like the saiyans.

>>533679269
Theyre coombait and thats about it.

>>533679161
Not our fault your ToP fights were so underwhelming, old man. Maybe live up to the hype next time, yeah?

>>533679594
I don't even necesscarily need them to be musclegirls but bulma has more meat on her bones than caulifla or (untransformed) kale which looks weird

>>533679484
And yet Vegeta put up some kind of fight against Kid Buu and Fat Buu despite being likely 4 times weaker (not 25% weaker, 400%). These things aren't consistent.

You can interpret it the way you do and say it's all about 15% jumps that let you shitstomp your opponent and the multipliers are super small because of that. It's one interpretation. I think it doesn't feel natural but it's not outright wrong.

>>533679335
The thing is that you're attributing Toyotaro's Saiyan and Bardock Wank to Toriyama and the franchise in general when Toriyama and the anime side of things really didn't go that root.
>You can't have asshole Bardock anymore, and not just because of DB Minus or Toriyama changing his mind,
Bardock WAS an asshole in Minus tho.

>>533679803
>but bulma has more meat on her bones than caulifla
They look the exact same in Toriyama's artwork.

>>533679803
>bulma has more meat on her bones than caulifla or (untransformed) kale which looks weird
In DBS they are around as skinny so not really. Also Caulifla and Kale are supposed to be teenagers so them being skinnier would make sense.
Meanwhile Bulma is a mother of 2.

>>533679958
Guess he's talking about old Bulma from old Toriyama artworks

>>533679958
In fact Android 21 has the literal same bodytype as Caulifla in Toriyama's artwork too.

>>533679316
He can hit himself with his own blasts for training anywhere, he literally did so in the original manga in a small spaceship.

>>533679361
>keeps comparing knowledge to strength

>>533679478
Those barbarians are his people. Nobody knows how to be a saiyan better than a saiyan, if anything it makes sense that if Goku can learn something from mortals is something more basic and rooted into his race because he has already conquered traditional martial arts. When Goku needs Bardock, Piccolo or any random U7 alien to teach him martial arts tricks we can call it bullshit

>>533680140
I don't know why people insist on comparing characters across different artstyles. It's like when people try to compare Trunks in Bojack Unbound to DBS Trunks.
In the same artstyle, Caulifla and Bulma are basically as skinny as each others.

>>533679594
>Fasha was far from a musclegirl and was literally Bulma sized.
Ceripa was perfect sized actually. Muscle girls are gay deeply homosexual shit. Transformed Kale is ugly ngl
>>533680087
>Caulifla and Kale are supposed to be teenagers
Headcanon btw
>>533679958
Every other Toriyama design was adapted. MUI Goku and Blue Goku have exactly the same muscularity as SSG Goku in Toriyama artwork.

>>533680303
Goku fought with Vegeta who remembers everything from the Saiyans and generally proved his superiority martial arts wise over Vegeta. There's nothing he should learn from low class Saiyans.

>>533680303
Saiyans didn't have any knowledge, that's the point.
And the knowledge Goku got in the DBS manga directly translated into strength, the fuck are you on about?
>>533680432
>Ceripa was perfect sized actually.
She's literally the default size every other girl was in the Z artstyle, just like Caulifla is the default size all the girls are in the Super artstyle, get over it.

>>533679958
I like beerus and whis well enough but for the most part I've never been able to get into Toriyama's modern style. This isn't to say I need everyone to be ultra JACKED like they did around late cell saga, but designs had a great combination of muscle and realistic fat around late OGDB
>>533680303
>He can hit himself with his own blasts for training anywhere, he literally did so in the original manga in a small spaceship.
I'm just going with what super itself said, Goku even prevented king kai from wishing to change his planet because he wanted it at that specific size in order to hit himself with the blasts

>>533679863
>put up some kind of fight
Both Buus playing with Vegeta like an abusive drunktard father with the child he never wanted to have isn't Vegeta puting up a fight
Also we don't really know the difference between Buu and a SS2, people always say they are SS3 tier, but truth is they are weaker than every SS3 ever seen

>>533680692
>Both Buus playing with Vegeta like an abusive drunktard father with the child he never wanted to have isn't Vegeta puting up a fight
SS2 Vegeta at least surprised Buu by destroying his lower half and that wasn't faking.

Dragon Ball just doesn't have the careful, minute planning and restraint it takes to be consistent on a rule as restrictive as "30% weaker? You're getting oneshotted on the spot buddy, every single time"

AAAAAAAAAAAH

All we know is that Caulifla's gang has been around for a while, Kale joined it later, Cabba is a well established soldier in the military, the girls are their age and they aren't chibi like Goten and Trunks were when they were under 17 so Caulifla, Kale and Cabba aren't under 17 either.
Her behaviour is modeled after the Sukeban, not a teenage girl. Sukeban are girl gangs filled with female delinquents. The first ones were founded by highschool girls, but that's not where the story ends. Some grew to even rival smaller Yakuza clans. Many "girl bosses" in anime are modelled after the Sukeban. It is not an age restricted thing.
They are adults

>>533680432
>>533680567
To emphasize this point, Z Bulma and Fasha have the same kind of muscle definition. It is entirely an art style thing, as you can see with how 21 looks here >>533680213 vs. in FighterZ proper.

If you want to be mad, be mad at Toei I guess.

>>533680493
Except someone who was a 5yo when the society was destroyed can't possibly remember everything from them and you keep mixing knowledge with strength. Being stronger never means you know more than others.

>>533680567
>an entire race with a functional society and space travel technology didn't have any knowledge
You are genuinely insane.

>>533681272
>be mad at Toei
Toei is SHIT
...except for the Bardock and Trunks specials because those were cool.

A reminder that even normal bullets can "pierce" Buu if he lets them.

>>533681272
DBZ girls used to have subtle but real muscle definition

Are harems cringe or based?

>>533681385
>space travel technology
They didn't make that, they stole it.

Saiyans were worthless genociders. They knew nothing about martial arts or fighting that greater masters didn't. If Goku or Vegeta had something they could learn from them, they learned that long ago either with better masters or by training themselves.

I'm sorry, pic related isn't learning SHIT from a bunch of barbarians. He's already reaching enlightenment.

>>533679958
>>533680213
Yes, and the U6 Saiyans are as skinny as they are because Toei are directly adapting them from Toriyama's art. Same reason SSG Goku is skinny and has Toriyama's boot design.

It's retarded because in Toriyama's art, Goku has those boots regardless of his form, but because they took SSG as is, he's both skinny and magically gains different boots.

>>533681561
There's no more muscle definition there than there is with Z Bulma.

>>533680925
"Destroying" Buu's body isn't a feat, see >>533681536
And we know he was fucking around there too simply by his reaction, he was completely careless against Vegeta

>>533681802
I cant unsee scoliosisku

>>533678191
NTA but Bardock wasn't much of a fighter, Goku learned how to trust his own power, something he had no reason to have doubts about, and Vegeta learned to... Accept his saiyan pride? Something he only let go in this very arc to relearn to accept it?

>>533678795
>and ended up caring for Goku in general.
He checked Goku's power level, thought of him as worthless, and only "cared" about Goku during his final vision where he sees Goku confronting Freeza, so it's less "I love my son" and more of "Yes, my offspring will avenge us!".

>>533681910
I know Buu can let himself get pierced but that doesn't answer what's shown in >>533674772

Buu is clearly surprised and not faking, and Goku himself thinks this is going well.

You don't say "Great! This is going well, we might be able to buy a minute like that" if your guy is getting Cui'd.

Let's not forget that Toyotaro actually did change the main U6 Saiyans for the manga AND that not all U6 Saiyans look like the Tori artwork ones in the anime.

>>533681875
>Low quality image
Do you guys even have the series downloaded?

>>533682304
Only the manga.

>>533682195
His legs especially were something Toyotaro tried to emphasize as more defined, and he held back on it to make Cabba more in-line with the rest of the depictions.

>>533682379
If you're an autist enough to talk here you should invest the 100 gigs into downloading the entirety of the series. I have literally everything (OG, Kai, DBS, GT, Movies, every special, Heroes, bw manga, and full color manga) in English and Japanese for 120 gigs.

>>533681783
>they stole it
First of all, that has never been said in canon, second, even if they stole it you don't keep that stuff for generations without keeping knowledge. You don't get THIS unless your people keep traditions, knowledge, wisdom and information from the older generations, it's impossible.
You sound like the kind of idiot who thinks vikings were a bunch of drunk brutes who just fought and raped like rabid animals.
Also the think Goku and Vegeta learned wasn't even martial arts, it was a reminder of a saiyan's proper mindset.

>>533682701
I think the anime isn't very good, so I got the manga and some movies that I like.

>>533682553
Even Toyo drew him gross. He looks like someone who's never bulked in his life and thought cutting was a good idea.

>>533682774
I think the anime improves on a few things, like making transformations feel more impactful and a few fights within the buu saga like goku versus vegeta. It still has a lot of microfiller which makes everything drag unless you're watching kai. People joke about how long goku versus frieza is in the anime but holy shit that fight is genuinely way too long

>>533682968
You're right, everyone loves a good SS2 Gohan transformation for instance. And then you have some good standalone episodes/scenes here and there. But if you're trying to follow Dragon Ball and not watch one isolated episode/scene you're probably going to suffer, Kai or not.

>>533682169
If he's careless enough to not even do a full jump then yeah he's totally playing.
And yeah you don't expect a minute if your guy is getting Cui'd, but Vegeta wasn't being Cui'd not because Buu couldn't, but because he was playing with the food, he did so with both SS2 and BASE Vegeta

>>533681385
>Muh society
Of retarded murder hobos. Worthless

>>533682968
Even when grabbing the bulma screenshot right here >>533682304 I noticed something. The spaceship segment in Kai is under a single episode. Literally 3 minutes in the spaceship and they're on Namek. It's similar in the manga.
In Z getting to Namek takes around 10 fucking episodes.

You want muscle definition? I'll fucking GIVE you muscle definition! Saiyan Arc Bulma? Buff as FUCK.

>>533681063
Cute SSJ Pekora. 50 times more subscribers!
>>533681779
Based

>>533683176
I don't think Goku banked entirely on Buu playing around, and Vegeta's dialogues ("is this what Kakarot was fighting against?") indicates that Buu is actually fighting like he did against Goku when he was beating up SS2 Vegeta.
And it makes sense. Vegeta did SOMETHING against Fat Buu. He couldn't truly hurt him but he wasn't unable to touch him at all. Basically Toriyama doesn't work with that "30% stronger? Instant death" rule he made up for Cui once.

>>533683269
Rawdogging dragonball's anime is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. There's just so much of it. Even the good stuff is brought down by just how much shit there is to get through. I do think that the manga is a bit too lean at times, it feels like characters don't interact that much and things that really should have been explored are just skipped over.
Like, could you imagine if the bulma vegeta stuff happened today and how much of a shitstorm that would cause?

>>533682195
>>533682553
I could break this faggot's neck
>>533683368
She has bigger arms than me

>>533682774
>>533682379
Based. Same here, in regards of anime format I think I only have some movies and Daima.

>>533682968
>People joke about how long goku versus frieza is in the anime but holy shit that fight is genuinely way too long
I vaguely recall it had a lot of generic dialogue like Freeza seething and calling Goku a monkey.

>>533683368
Still weaker than Erasa btw >>533510397

>>533683368
What the hell does NATTYma do to give herself arms like that?

>>533683567
>Like, could you imagine if the bulma vegeta stuff happened today and how much of a shitstorm that would cause?
I like Bejita x Bulma. I hate romance arcs yet Bulma x Bejita felt realistic. Relationships just kinda happen kek. You show up some day and that guy have a girl

>>533683368
Holy FUARK.

>>533683741
Relationships can be kind of spontaneous, sure. But this relationship was entirely offscreen and with the guy who both tried to and is still trying to kill all of your friends and family. I like bulma and vegeta nowadays but it's had 30+ years of the benefit of the doubt when at the time it had zero narrative justification. Like god damn woman at least use protection

>>533683368
>>533683572
>>533683730
>>533683671
>>533683982
Bulma is a twig compared to Marron. Now that's muscle.

>>533683567
>Like, could you imagine if the bulma vegeta stuff happened today and how much of a shitstorm that would cause?
Yamcha would be memed for being a cuck far more than when he got killed by a Saibaman...

>>533683741
>I like Bejita x Bulma. I hate romance arcs yet Bulma x Bejita felt realistic. Relationships just kinda happen kek. You show up some day and that guy have a girl
It's just completely bizarre for Bulma to invite the guy who killed her ex-boyfriend to live in her house to begin with. Her having sex with him only strains it further... And she talks like she's the voice of reason later kek.

>>533684153
Tiny twig arms.

>>533684153
>bimbo is actually a bodybuilder

>>533684153
Smol, smol arms...

>>533684327
modern dragon ball could never

>>533683506
>I don't think Goku banked entirely on Buu playing around
I do. Vegeta lost the Majin boost so he was even weaker than SS2 Goku, it was COMPLETELY impossible for him to survive the fight unless Buu was just playing with him.

>>533683995
This page is enough imo. She openly flirts with him right here.
>>533684153
>Fanart
>>533684158
>It's just completely bizarre for Bulma to invite the guy who killed her ex-boyfriend to live in her house to begin with. Her having sex with him only strains it further.
Women can and will do this. Toriyama was a real one for knowing this.Women get horny for crazy guys

>>533684492
>Women can and will do this. Toriyama was a real one for knowing this.Women get horny for crazy guys
toriyama and kishimoto write realistic women, if so explain all the dumb girls who love sending letters to killers

>>533684303
>>533684386
You know she could take 2 or 3 Bulmas without any issue

>>533684492
I mean, it's less to do with "realism" and how spontaneous relationships are or whether or not woman do this and it's more like it heavily damages bulma's credibility as a character and makes her out to be a kind of skank who'd sleep with a mass murderer because he's kind of hot. I don't care how "realistic" this fictional character is, i'd be pissed

>>533684735
>makes her out to be a kind of skank
Nigga...
Did you READ the original Dragon Ball? She is a purebred WHORE

>>533684914
even vegeta comments that he can't stay all day on beerus planet or bulma WILL cheat

>>533684492
Let's be fair, y'all dudes have trouble resisting the temptation to stick it in the crazy too. Look at how many monkeyfuckers and majinfuckers populate this general.

>>533684914
Granted, her flirting with general blue and such was played more as a joke there than anything and didn't really go anywhere.
>>533685057
Fuck you, majin girls are good girls and I wont take this slander

>>533684327
I like how people point to this scene to talk about how hot she is when she looks like this for most of the episodes

>>533685057
>Look at how many monkeyfuckers and majinfuckers populate this general.
Every 21fag...

>>533614749
The latter half of the Dragon Ball arc sees some pretty significant changes, and the 23rd Budokai is basically unrecognizable from its canon counterpart.

>>533644147
>>533665492
If I recall correctly, there are only like two big instances of the Xenoverse "Towa makes someone glow purple and gives them a power boost" happening in the Quest, and both times they end up with the Villainous Mode'd character failing pretty spectacularly (hell, second one goes so badly it gives Vegeta minor character development). More often than not the shit she pulls are things like "throw Turles and Slug at one another so they fight over the fruits" or "get Gero to save King Cold's life by turning him into an Android" or the stuff she shoves into the beta version Mira to test how it works before she finally makes Mira proper.

>>533685189
Still bigger than Bulma

>>533685057
Purely for the reasons of securing strong children. Imagine having a hybrid army

>>533685307
I still remember not being too much of a fan of towa being the cause of butterfly effects instead of just having them happen naturally, but to be fair xenoverse was much newer back when that quest was being made so I guess i'll give it a slide

>>533683567
>Rawdogging dragonball's anime is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. There's just so much of it. Even the good stuff is brought down by just how much shit there is to get through. I do think that the manga is a bit too lean at times, it feels like characters don't interact that much and things that really should have been explored are just skipped over.
When we're talking about anime original expansions (not the padding type), the problem is that it's both repetitive and inconsistent. A good illustration is that time Chi-Chi is throwing a fit about how Gohan wasted time he should have spent styudying during the Cell Games after she already outgrew this phase and accepted Gohan's role as the world's protector. Even if some filler episodes are good.
>Like, could you imagine if the bulma vegeta stuff happened today and how much of a shitstorm that would cause?
This really wouldn't work with any build up, it's supposed to be a twist and Vegeta's still supposed to be very much evil by then. The best you could do is officially kill the Bulma/Yamcha pairing beforehand, to let him preserve his dignity. Say, by the time Trunks show up you already throw a line about how they broke up and Yamcha's already dating someone else.

>>533685152
See >>533685207

>>533685332
You're not going to deny at least half of it is you wanting a monkey girl that's a freak in bed. I know what you are. Ives seen the porn this general posts.

>>533685640
21 is a fake majin girl and I refuse to call her one, she has none of the cool shit majins can do and instead just has candy beam

>>533685551
I think the thing with Turles and Slug actually happened in the Quest before XV2 came out and did something similar, ironically enough.

>>533685640
>Ives seen the porn this general posts.
Have you?

>>533685640
Saiyans would feel the same as humans on the inside

>>533685740
Don't deny she's part of the category. The fetish shit.

>>533686136
Yes. Even the futa. Especially the futa.

>>533684327
the eyecandy of yesterday
vs
the eyecandy of today

>>533686165
but anon you're not factoring in super saiyan, imagine 50x the tightness

>>533686165
Isn't that literally an in-built fetish for Saiyans? They want freaky partners?

>>533686247
Have you really?

>>533685189
It's like Rogue in that one 90's X-Men scene where she's knocked down. Her ass is not that big in most scenes, and even during that scene it still isn't. Her ass suddenly grows when falls.

https://youtu.be/tfhIdDF8KHg?t=39

>>533686712
If you're gonna keep seething over an art style thing at least switch it up a bit.

>>533686712

>>533687126
seething? not so
i like both

>>533686712
>>533684327
>Both are drawn so hilariously off model no one actually remembers what they look like
Funny!

>>533686852
>She turns super saiyan
>Her pussy squeezes you like a vice
>Literally

>>533687453
I like how she just kind of turns into mordred on the top right

>>533686712
Only one of those is eyecandy

>>533687556

>>533685307
>hell, second one goes so badly it gives Vegeta minor character development
That sounds hilarious, actually. What happened?

>>533687453
I am so happy neither of these two will ever be important.

>>533681779
harems are cringe
reverse harems are based

>>533688149
Bulma...

>>533688149
Woman detected

>>533688149
What Dragon Ball reverse harem would you want to see, ma'am?

>>533688551
5 gokus

>>533685640
>Ives seen the porn this general posts.
I don't know what you're talking about...

>>533688551
me x all gokus
me x all brolies
me x all of you
me x all lolis (double reverse harem)

>>533687823
He lost to a regular human 1v1 even with the power boost. He blamed the loss on the mind manipulation shit he was experiencing, to the point of him prioritizing keeping smug, witchy cunts like Towa out of his head. He actually never goes Majin in the Quest because of it.

>>533688739
Aubah?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK2SE7LKmS4

>>533688595
>>533688739
That is too many Gokus! Cease this immediately!

>>533689191
i won't stop at just 5
all of them
even metal goku
even shadow goku
even you, zamasu

>>533688551
>Goku
>Bardock
>Gohan
>Goten

>>533689420
You must stop this degeneracy at once!

>>533688885
>Vegeta jobbing that badly
Finally, a fanfic that doesn't have relentless Vegetafagging

>>533689431

>>533689504
not even just one version of you either
goku in your body
you in goku's body
crimson-masked saiyan
each and every single one of them will become mine

>>533689431
B-based!

>>533689431
>>533689786
Such degeneracy...

>>533690640
Grok, take this character and turn them into a woman

lolihan is lowkey the sexiest character

>>533690707
Of course! I've included a small bonus as well.

>>533690959
I don't believe y-

>>533691112
Oh.

Gohan does look a lot better with long hair. Goten looks best with a mullet
>>533691185
Dragon Ball Heroes has been fixed.

>>533691216
i only speak truth

>>533691512
Nice feet

Goku should have had a daughter

Same with Bejita

>>533689759
YOU UTTER NINGEN, YOU WILL BE THE FIRST TO BE MADE AN EXAMPLE OF!

>>533691946
AN EXAMPLE OF A MOTHER OF A HALF-KAI YEAH BABYYYY

>>533685307
I'd hope so. Part of the appeal is changing things, and while I understand it's supposed to start with small changes, King Piccolo arc did very little to stand out.

>If I recall correctly, there are only like two big instances of the Xenoverse "Towa makes someone glow purple and gives them a power boost" happening in the Quest, and both times they end up with the Villainous Mode'd character failing pretty spectacularly (hell, second one goes so badly it gives Vegeta minor character development). More often than not the shit she pulls are things like "throw Turles and Slug at one another so they fight over the fruits" or "get Gero to save King Cold's life by turning him into an Android" or the stuff she shoves into the beta version Mira to test how it works before she finally makes Mira proper.
That sounds fun, specially the Vegeta one.

>>533689542
It was mentioned in another thread that he got SS4 before Goku, and during a tag tournament he gets overconfident in his power, almost loses, and has to be bailed out by Tien.

>>533692428
ss2 girlhan would be a daddy's girl and would take cell out after goku asked her to

>>533692723

>>533693276
Not gonna lie, I've always had a softspot for Xicor purely because I found the idea of Goku just having fucked a random chick in space and having a kid from that hilarious.

>>533694081
I thought he didn't fuck her, she just stole some of his Saiyan seed while he was asleep

>>533694268
That was a later retcon after Toyotaro got flamed to hell and back over that plot point.
I thought it was lame because it made Xicor's whole shtick as 'Goku's only worthy son' moot since he's basically as much Goku's son as Cell was.

>>533692812
>he got SS4 before Goku, and during a tag tournament he gets overconfident in his power, almost loses, and has to be bailed out by Tien
This again sounds like one of the few fanfics that actually understands Vegeta as he's supposed to be

>>533694268
One of the many versions of AF had Goku fucking some princess, and when Toyotaro adapted it, he changed that into West Kaioshin.

>>533694268
It was his blood. I do find it hilarious that West Kaioshin wanted to make a powerful warrior and made Freeza out of that, and then made Xicor, she was Towa before Towa!

>>533694469
>That was a later retcon after Toyotaro got flamed to hell and back over that plot point.
I've heard about this, allegedly she raped Goku while he was sleeping, but I've never seen the original page, if it's real.

>>533695472
impregnating herself with blood? that's hardcore

>>533695754
I didn't mean that and you know it!

>>533685740
>she has none of the cool shit majins can do
She can, at the very least, do minor to moderate transforming between the human form and various attacks.

>>533697230
she can stretch her tail, yeah. But that kind of just makes her cell tier at best, she's not ripping her arm off and using it as a projectile or just leaving your fists to punch a guy while you walk off or turning yourself into a paraglider, you know?

>>533692812
>>533694836
I will say that it never comes off like Kato hates Vegeta in particular or anything, more that she doesn't really hold any favoritism toward him. So when he pulls a... well, Vegeta, jobber thumb and all, he doesn't get any sort of special "out" like some might try to give him and gets his ass beat. Probably doubly ironic given how much he still does accomplish, like getting Super Saiyan 4 way early.

>>533695472
i do wonder if it was ever drawn or if it's one of those situations where he got told to not do something retarded before he made it

>>533698534
I feel like you kind of HAVE to shit on vegeta in order to do his character properly. if you reward him for his shitty behavior it'd just come at the detriment of everyone else. Vegeta improves both as a warrior and as a person BECAUSE he's not allowed to get away with his shitty attitude. If he was ever allowed to get away with it he'd just stagnate. Like, vegeta straight up admits this is the case in resurrection of frieza yet i've never seen anyone really reckon with this in fanfic

>>533698547
Legends says it was drawn, fans complained about Goku getting raped, Toyotaro initially defended it but eventually changed his mind.

I'm not sure he was told to not do something, I remember seeing AF in his blog, so maybe it wasn't published?

>>533698762
This just goes to underscore fans are never suited to write about their beloved franchises.

>>533698534
Not Vegetafagging is the best way to Vegetafag. Write him like Vegeta, have him get beaten up once his ego grows too much, but still keep him among the strongest. That's what keeps him bearable.

>>533698762
>Like, vegeta straight up admits this is the case in resurrection of frieza
IIRC he said he needed Goku to become stronger, but didn't comment more than that.

>>533698762
Yeah, pretty much. Hell in the series itself the times he does actually get something positive it's a result of his very, very gradual efforts on being less of a dick.

>>533699527
kek, true. Kinda funny when you think about it.

>>533699527
>IIRC he said he needed Goku to become stronger, but didn't comment more than that.
Well yeah, sure. But given this is after the whole "hang in there kakarot, you're number one" speech, I'm not sure how else you're supposed to interpret how goku helps in this relationship.

Holy shit, DB Sai is so fucking boring outside the Kakarot fight.

>>533686712
8 years ago is not exactly today, is it

>>533705142
Clearly it should be Panzy then.

>>533705885
Not even close

>>533705885
>over 40 pounds of pussy and ass

>>533690387
I really like this look for a female Super Saiyan. Is there anything like this in that xenoverse revamp mod or whatever?
>>533693276
I like Xicor a lot too. He is the pinnacle of kid's playground rumors.
>>533694268
>Goku getting raped while sleeping
Funny

>>533705885

>>533681779
Based!

>>533704259
This might be the most universally agreed upon opinion in this fanbase. I've never seen anyone defending Sai's OG DB take.

>>533709545
Bardock is such a lucky bastard

>>533709545
>jabba
they'd fry and eat him

>>533710283
I think it's because Goku was already treated as overpowered for most of OG DB.
So replacing him with Vegeta doesn't really change much from that angle and an overpowered character is a lot less compelling when he's a grumpy asshole threatening people and lording his power over them rather than a cheerful moron who barely even realize how above everyone he is.
Even more so in OG DB's wacky tone and situations, which Vegeta doesn't synergize with at all.

>>533710351
>Gine
>Selipa
>Chronoa
>Aeos
>Muezli
IT'S! NOT! FAIR!

>>533710971
>>Aeos
She was into Goku, not Bardock

Haremfags proving they don't pay attention

>>533711458
How dare they mix up Goku and Bardock's harems!

those don't even exist
Bardock doesn't want any of them besides Gine
Goku's happy with Chichi

>>533711635
You're so jealous

>>533711358
Gohan*

>>533710595
Vidra or Buldel?

>>533711716
none of them are the girl I find most attractive
not even the top five

>>533710765
>So replacing him with Vegeta doesn't really change much from that angle and an overpowered character is a lot less compelling when he's a grumpy asshole threatening people and lording his power over them rather than a cheerful moron who barely even realize how above everyone he is.
Not to mention, any sort of training just doesn't matter because Vegeta is too powerful.

>Even more so in OG DB's wacky tone and situations, which Vegeta doesn't synergize with at all.
He could if the story allowed him to be the butt of jokes, but all it does is show Vegeta overpowering every OG opponent, making the story have no plot.

CHADren is pretty fun to mess around with. But my soul still begs, pleads, and cries Ribrianne's name.

How did one High Quality Rip™ that may or may not have been by Toby and blogposts by Noelle cause everyone to think she have a Gir hoodie before Toby making it canon that she have it as her Computer's wallpaper

>>533715203
Wrong general, buddy?

>>533715361
Yes

Bardock:
>Gine
>Selipa
>Chronoa
>Muezli
Goku:
>Chi-chi
>Suno
>Princess Snake
Gohan:
>Videl
>Erasa
>Angela
>Lime
>Aeos
>Zangya
>Cocoa Amaguri
Goten:
>Marron
>Fayra
>Rulah
>Bra
>Palace
>Robelu

Why are the Son CHADS so popular with women?
Was Annin into Goku?
We need a time God that's into Goten

>>533716064
You forgot Princess Misa on Goku's side, she outwardly developed a crush on Goku
I guess Chu-Li too

>>533713664
Impressive.
The Kamikaze would be fun too.

>>533715203
I didn't know we had a deltarune crossposter, that explains the edit.

>>533716064
>Was Annin into Goku?
I thought she was with Grandpa Gohan

Super Black Kamehameha Rose vs Gigantic Roar
>SBKR is faster, but has less active frames and costs more
>Gigantic Roar deals slightly more damage, has more active frames, costs less

very few people probably care about this, but I'm recording attacks to analyze damage and frame data. anybody curious about any certain super attack?

>>533716064
>Gohan
>>Zangya
This is a thing?

>>533718934
Suprisingly, yes. Gohan would save her from bojack during the movie and things go from there is what i've seen in the occasional gohan MC fanfic

>>533718934
Gohan x Zangya is one of the most popular ships in the franchise. It right there under Goku x Bulma. It's a crime not to include it on a list such as above.
Zangya never once talks in the entire movie so her personality is a blank slate.

>>533718501
What's the one that does the most damage and the one that does the least?

>>533719118
>>533719373
That's some real fanfic crackship shit

>>533719373
It's kind of funny how many popular females are essentially non characters. Gine, Erasa, Zangya, Serpia, all barely characters but still pretty popular. At least 18 got to be cool

>>533719574
its surprising how common the pair is, but the idea of Gohan having a pirate space girlfriend is funny

>>533719373
>It right there under Goku x Bulma. It's a crime not to include it on a list such as above.
But Goku x Bulma isn't ON that list, and that one has official manga statements backing it up!

>>533719658
Coomers be coomers

>>533719907
Erasa isn't even really a coomer thing as much as it just appeals to the "Gohan slice of life" fanfic makers. There's a suprisingly large amount of these

>>533719514
There's trade offs to consider with that question. There are fast attacks, slow attacks, high cost, low cost. I think the highest damage attacks are Super Spirit Bomb, Death Ball, and (maybe) Beerus' Sphere of Destruction. But they cost a lot, have a lot of wind-up, and they're big slow projectiles that you have to aim. A super attack won't do any damage if you can't hit them with it.

>>533719843
Bulma is married to Bejita. I can't change reality

>>533720074
and Muzeli to someone else but here we are

>>533720074
Goku is married to Chichi, Gohan to Videl, and Bardock to Gine though?

>>533720028
>Erasa isn't even really a coomer thing
She is tho
>>533719658
It's a shonen. All they have to do is have sex appeal.
Rulah and Fayra are in a similar boat to the guys you listed. Each of them only appear in a dozen panels. I'd argue GT Bra and Marron are non characters too.

>>533720028
>Erasa isn't even really a coomer thing
anon there are like three posts in this thread talking about Erasa's hot body

>>533719574
>crackship
Zangya Gohan is tame. They interact in the movie. There is an easily conceivable scenario where they'd get together
THIS is a crackship

>>533720480
I meant in the sense of when she's used in gohan fanfiction, okay! That's more of a female oriented thing and it's less coomer then. Speaking of, now that I think about it I can't really shit on people getting attached to women that barely show up given Chi-Chi herself was literally that until she decided to randomly show up again during the 23rd

>>533716471
Oh right that anon talking about that Tuffle thing brought those up, I think
Funny how that has its own OC redhead (right?) with Goku too

>>533720031
I know, I was just asking about the raw numbers. I remember the Makankosappo being OP

>>533720662
Wait are you telling me that girls self-insert as Erasa when shipping her with Gohan?

>>533720662
Every DBZ successor like Naruto and One Piece went all in on creating women because DB is lacking. They overcompensated

BOOM!

>>533721286
Insanely based. Goku would be a great step-dad to Duu and Kuu

>>533720712
Yeah, Maple's (the players' character) design reference is mapped to DQ4's Alena, who is a redhead

>>533716064
Bulma also had a crush on Goku once upon a time.

Stop talking about your Goku fanfic ships!

>>533722490
one more word out of you and i'm shipping (you) with goku