Thread 535674642

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>Are mystery dungeon games allowed in this thread?
Generally yes, most mystery dungeon games(Shiren the Wanderer, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Etrian Mystery Dungeon, etc.) can be considered roguelikes too
>Is Elin/Elona allowed?
Yes, they are roguelikes
>Is Dwarf Fortress allowed?
If it's adventure mode, yes, that could be considered a roguelike, the same can't be said about its other modes though
>FAQ
https://l.idrix.fr/J7sOv
>What to Play
https://l.idrix.fr/eYNOh
>Individual Game Pastas
https://l.idrix.fr/wXd8t
>Roguelike Archive (Collection of pretty much every free roguelike there is)
https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z
>/rlg/'s "official" Cataclysm: DDA fork
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/releases


>News
17 Aug 2025 - BOSS v3.3.2 released
17 Aug 2025 - Steam Sky 11.0.4 released
16 Aug 2025 - Shadowed: the Demon Castle of Ooe v1.0 Full release released
11 Aug 2025 - Overworld v2.5.3 released
9 Aug 2025 - ROGUE-FP v3.6 Steam gog
6 Aug 2025 - HyperRogue 13.1 released
6 Aug 2025 - Coop Catacombs 1.7 released
3 Aug 2025 - Piki Rogue Build 94 released
2 Aug 2025 - Zorbus r61.16 Steam Homepage Changes
1 Aug 2025 - Wizard School Dropout Preview 6 "It's a Curse" released
29 July 2025 - Crablike v1.0.9 released
24 July 2025 - PWMAngband version 1.6.2 build 2 released

>/rlg/'s shared DCSS online account
User: rlgrobin
Password: ownfault (or "robin" on Xtahua)

Roguelike Servers
https://angband.live/ (Angband and variants)

>>535674642 (OP)
you know what rogues like
you know what rogues want

>>535676023
Permadeath.

Love me some rogue likes but
never really played one recently, what's a good fantasy themed one?
Jupiter Hell looks cool but I want magic n shiet

>>535678008
Try Rift Wizard 2 or Path of Achra.

is Caves of Qud a roguelike?
and why the FUCK is Balatro even considered a roguelike
FUCK

>>535678785
>is Caves of Qud a roguelike?
It's an open world roguelike, yes. It's quite well made, but the open world design with respawning enemies actually detracts from the experience if you ask me.
>Balatro
I don't consider this one a roguelike, personally.

>genre is called roguelike
>rogues are always the worst class
what did they mean by this?

>>535680640
not the worst class in tome4 (that would be cursed)

>>535680640
Best class in Infra Arcana
Therefore IA is the best roguelike

My first JHC win.
Key to gunslinger bulletstorm build was to not bulletstorm until dante.
Lucky Jackal drop but .44 ammo was way too rare at that point.
On the other hand 9mm was abundant until the end, unlike JH.
Maglev is still good even after losing half its damage, it does not have its own dual-reload button but can be dual-reloaded in second slot.
Combat pistol would be even better but sadly it's exotic now so most of the run was done with a starter pistol in main hand.
7.62 sidearms are not really worth their inventory slots, especially after bulletstorm. I'd rather stock up on 9mm and modded starter pistol if I knew.
Tactical armor is crazy good now that it's not limited to green base. Strictly better than blue, onyx exotic or nanofiber red.
Mephitic reward does not block toxic puddles, only poison dot.
IDK what Magmacloak does, flavor text is about swimming in lava but lava still deals damage.
Overall drop balance is fucked, there is high chance to never encounter "uncommon" tier weapons like .44 revolver or hunter rifle in entire run, because no enemies use them, same for most lategame weapons that are not auto rifles.

In Shattered PD, are the only reasons to choose Warden finding Boots or Regrow wand? Looks like she'd be garbage without them

>>535683563
Sorry I don't play POZZED shit

>>535687358
What?

>miscast conjuration
>inconsequential damage
>miscast summon
>asshole appears that deletes your summons and is stronger than you
>miscast translocation
>-move -tele maybe instant death
why

she rogue on my like till i general

Bright Nights Best Nights

poz load ahead

the long grift

roguelikes for this feel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0o1wrwZ_EY

>>535679801
>but the open world design with respawning enemies actually detracts from the experience if you ask me
the open world roguelikes are the only ones i end up playing for hundreds of hours

>>535705187
ADOM

the ToME experience:
easily mow your way through countless weak chaff enemies then get oneshot by an enemy with the same sprite as those trash mobs

>>535705917
they should have a different frame for randbosses, if not check your settings

Any ham radio themed roguelikes?

>>535711169
CDDA

>>535712217
Didn't deal remove radio chatter?

>>535680790
not unless you're playing on baby mode or something crazy has changed since i last played.
rogues were simply too squish to deal with damage spikes. cursed could at least play the game.

>>535687358
This game looks old though. Before troon stuff appeared I'd use "they" frequently to refer to both male and female or groups and would get in trouble and told to use either "he" or "she" if its a single person. Eventually they wanted "he or she" man is it tiring.

>>535726553
wow what a struggle

>potion petition offers my caster berserk, lignification, and berserk
>you must choose one
t-thanks gozag

Well that was a solid run. Attack lots to stack Master Bleed which when I'm hit counters for huge damage, Blood-drinker then instantly heals me to full again. By the end I was pumping Vigor for more HP since (nearly) the only way I could die was to get one-shot.
Final boss was a joke as I stepped up to him and Blood-drinker hit for 1M + another 1M damage from the Bone Skirt with each attack.

>>535731649
That one looks like fun.

BOught Moonlighter, what do I think of it?

>>535678008
Sil or SilQ are in a LotR setting I think. Most classic roguelikes take place in a whacky fantasy sword&sorcery world.

>>535736060
thanks

>>535731649
that's a lot of bleeding for a skeleton

>>535679801
nah it should have leaned in more toward being an ascii version of fallout IMO. more overworld development, handwritten maps, complex settlements, side quests... more meaningful content to complement the randomized dungeon crawling

>>535740152
a defined map with random elements like Qud, and guaranteed placement of some critical items would be amazing in cata

>>535705258
I played Qud for 250 hours too, but the shop grind eventually wore me out. The shops really shouldn't refresh just by waiting. When I found myself rushing navigation skills and flying to the Yd Freehold at level 15 for the 6th run in a row, it became too obvious that I was doing the same thing over and over, even if I was playing a completely different kind of character. The game has so many randomized elements but all the most powerful tools are found in the same place every single time, so you can have your recoiler, forcefield generator, quest carbine, pet clonebot, etc. all within two hours of starting a new game, and you can access anything that costs money at the start just by acquiring a Yd Freehold recoiler and grinding the shops. That recoiler simultaneously opens up infinite access to the highest tier of tinkering bits, and tinkering bits turn into an infinite money exploit with any schematic that sells for more than the bits it requires. The unlimited nature of the resources ruins the game because any time you have the opportunity to take a risk or tackle a dungeon at an appropriate level, it's always smarter to grind for a few more hours and completely outlevel the content. You have to do a self-imposed challenge for the game mechanics to work properly.

>>535741938
>The shops really shouldn't refresh just by waiting.
kek
>time passes
>shop restocks
that ruins it for you?

>>535741938
Yeah the shop madness is real, it consumes the entire game.
Not just the endless refreshing and rushing settlements, but the grinding out dungeons just to get shit to sell to buy more shit is awful.
And then your reward for all that tedium is making yourself basically invincible and steamrolling through the game.
Doesn't help that the main quest is so linear.

I'd say the closest thing to a real roguelike in qud is just diving into the first hole you find and going down every staircase until you're in the underworld. Very very hard to not die down there though.

>>535741938
>>535743718
You guys seriously grind shops? Closest thing to grinding shops is the thing I've done in many games
>grab all the loot from fights and looting
>stockpile it
>eventually too much
>sell the stuff I don't want

do out of range kills give me less exp?
the message
>you feel a BIT more experience
seems to imply i dont get full exp for my kill.
im a felid spamming fuliment prism a lot so i often end up running away from LoS of the monster i am trying to kill.
dcss v0.24

>>535744125
The shops in qud are busted, there's endgame gear in there.
>yes I'd like to trade 5,000 rat asses for this black hole generator
The mods especially are broken as fuck, you can buy some random shit from the first shop in joppa that's better than anything you'll find in the entire rest of the game.

You're mostly safe if you don't pick tinker and go full mutant monsterman, that way you don't technically need any equipment at all, but if you go true man you're fucked and the shop basically entirely decides your power level.

>>535745080
When I used to play a lot, true man always felt underpowered compared to mutants.

>>535745260
If you get good items and the right cybernetics you become an unstoppable god. Basically there's a set of augments that lets you fire six full auto heavy weapons with infinite ammo at the same time.
Plus there's the internal recoiler that lets you mark/recall from anywhere so you can just teleport out of dungeons, restock and heal in town, and then teleport back to where you were instantly.
It's more powerful than mutations, there's no level restrictions, you don't need exp, and you can swap them in and out whenever you want for free.

phew... 45->15% banish chance btw

>>535743641
passive shop restocks are an extremely gay mechanic in general, unless it's just trade goods for a market arbitrage minigame that doesn't have any direct combat payoff.

what site do people use to track dcss stats?

>>535750486
/usr/bin/vim

>>535753596
>PMD is a roguelike
Anyone else think Explorers of Sky was overrated? Red/blue rescue team were more sovlful

>>535755020
All pmd are the same game and any emotional investment which might elevate one on a personal level is undercut by the core mechanics the the point of sillyness.

Pretty good tho

>>535743641
>that ruins it for you?
When the shop has all the end game equipment from the start of the game, yes. You can get zetachrome long swords and phase cannons just by refreshing the shop, and there are dozens of tinkering recipes that let you scum infinite money by turning bits into items like grenade launchers and missile launchers. Or you can collect 100 daggers from early to mid game areas, and turn them into 10,000+ drams of water. Going into any dungeon after Golgotha without end game equipment just means that you don't know how to gear your character.

>>535745260
True kin start weaker, but they can become friends with all robots in the world by doing the water ritual with the pink robots in the jungle. And they can take the clone robots from Bethesda Susa as pets to clone merchants.

>>535747936
-1 rune

>>535736060
Are Sil and SilQ the most tight roguelikes? As opposed to something like Dungeon Crawl that has no central theme, it’s just a bunch of random stuff from different cultures/mythologies, or just made up.
>>535741938
>>535743718
What’s a better alternative to CoQ?

>>535764645
Infra Arcana, Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, Path of Achra, Rift Wizard 2, Cogmind, Shattered Pixel Dungeon, Tales of Maj'Eyal.

Jupiter Hell Classic and Shadowed: The Demon Castle of Ooe just came out too, but I haven't gotten around to playing them more than an hour or two.

>>535765862
DCSS is not better than the CoQ

>>535765862
literally none of those are actual alternatives

>>535767496
Well if you specifically wanted an open world roguelike then no you're not going to find one better than Qud.

>>535764645
coq is basically a *band. It's got the same overall structure of dungeon diving and teleporting back to town. Only difference is there's nothing at the bottom of most dungeons(there is actually a win condition at the TOP of the spire, which functions basically like a traditional roguelike)

Closets thing is ADOM or TOME probably, but they play pretty different.

Gonna try out the ninja game. How badly will I get fucked for not playing a ninja?

>weasel hypnotizes you so you can't attack it
>lots of other shit was around
Okay, the answer was "very". Might as well try a few more.

>>535770097
that was fast

>find temple
>loot it
>buddha hates me, got 2 fire talismans
th-thanks

>>535770462
Such is life.

It's not looking good...

>got through some more tough fights
>died because I got tunnel vision and didn't realize the zombie was poisoning me
Well, I only had 1 curing pill left, so I was probably screwed anyway.
I might do one more, but I kind of just want to play it more without posting.

>>535769885
Haven't booted it up yet, I wonder where it falls on the scale of IA stealth murderhobo to ToME4 DBZ battles by endgame, there isn't 5 pages of MMO hotbar so probably not far to the right

Is this a DBZ reference? It seems kind of risky to use.

>>535772448
It definitely feels like mixture of both, but instead of a hotbar you have this Ki stuff that builds up during combat and all your abilities cost fatigue, which seems to basically be Shock from IA.

As predicted, the saiyan near-death boost thing doesn't pan out well IRL. Oh well, I'm done for the day.

I don't like COQ

>>535775191
you prefer cock

>>535775191
Just downloaded it, and I'm having a blast
I understand 20% of what is happening but its fun

>>535777985
it's one of the best, fantastic setting too

if your game is not released under a free software license I will NOT be playing it

>>535778381
pirate it

aaargh the roguelikes

>>535746035
I liked played without cybernetics....a true, true man.

>>535769885
How hard is it compared to Infra Arcana?

>>535773639
>Is this a DBZ reference?
Kek, looks like it.

>>535778749
i know we're 100% black around here, but you don't really have to live up to the stereotypes.

>>535472360
>can you name some?
A stealth build Forays into Norrendrin is very viable. You get almost nothing for killing enemies and can only heal once per floor. Dynamic lighting and fire facilitate some fun stealth shenanigans.

>>535744482
I don't believe that was ever the case, it's just s flavour text

Ooe is really good. I got a key last thread.

It's got a lot of polish, I really like the shadowed mechanic (you get 1.5x exp for sneaking past enemies without killing them at the end of a floor.)

Really incentives stealth in a fun way.

Also the perk system change the gameplay quite a bit between runs

Spent like an hour reading the tutorial but I'm ready to play the game now. Monk first as always.

I might be playing it wrong if I only get 18 exp on a level. Maybe I should go look at all the monsters in the level even if I'm trying to sneak past them.

>>535787529
I usually explore the whole map as best I can while avoiding monsters. There's usually good items and events hidden away so it's worth it

fuck red oniggers

Finally, I now have access to every mind/psionic resource. Equilibrium, Hate, Psi, and Feedback.

>>535792260
Praise Yakub, may he invent white people soon

Boss time

Second spa has a shop. I didn't expect to get this far on my first run so I will call it a night here.

buy an ad

Roguelikes based on the Hebrew lore?

>try shadowed
>everything going fine, just reached floor 6
>suddenly an effect rolls across my screen and then i'm blind and confused
>can't cure either because i can't use items due to blind and can't use skills due to confuse
>die
thanks

Shadowed question
I wonder if a full stealth pacifist win is possible?

Play Stone Shard, you faggots.

>>535799705
I think you have to fight stage 6 boss.

>>535806516
are you going to pay me for that?

Sayonara ... arelgee

do not put your trust in gooners

Is Shadow a InfraArcana-like?

I'm about to buy this, if the statement above equals not true I will cry in the corner. mind that.

>>535806516
>>535778381

>>535832809
Shadowed has a heavy emphasis on stealth and finite resources.

>kill orc pack with animate dead running
>it raises a single zombie
How is it that every necro starter spell both hyperrestricted in when you're allowed to use it, and also complete trash even when you can use it

Oh boy I sure LOVE when someone start talking about some ultra specific scenario in a specific game, inside a multiple game general, and just refuse to mention the game name at all

>>535858379
I give you one guess

come on
which game?

>>535858379
iykyk brother

>>535806516
Eww no thanks. That game was giga hard for the tutorial in the demo...lol

>>535678350
Talking about Rift Wizard, I recently bought it and I felt it was pretty hard to deal enough damage in the later rifts... until I read somewhere you can also purchase skills and not just spells.

I felt like a complete imbecile for not knowing there was a whole new menu where you could also spend your points. I'm also surprised to see how OP Mega Anihilate is, how you can fit it in any build and how it trivializes the final boss.

With all that being said, should I get Rift Wizard 2?

>>535876183
Rift Wizard 2 is still in active development so yes. There is a bit of power creep but the UI is better and there's a lot more content.

>Ctrl + F "stoneshart"
>0 resu-
oh hey >>535806516

I underestimated a bear and died, again.
To be fair, I think the bear trap not immobilizing on its final use (when it breaks) is relatively new.

>>535896208
What game

Downloaded stoneshard demo. Clicked through two lines of dialogue so far.
- font is barely readable on my high DPI screen and i can't resize the window.
- can't deal with this low quality writing after Qud lol

>qud
>quality writing

>>535909570
Correct

Now say it with me

Transrights are human rights

>>535909570
it can be annoying but its always stylish and thoughtful. way fresher and more creative than the typical videogame dreck.
>>535909405
continuing, i do appreciate the modern ui, but they keep throwing long tutorial popup windows in my face. it's like just let me discover things naturally by playing. control hints could be made way more concise.

>>535909570
>some nobody on /rlg/ thinks qud has bad writing
>qud wins a hugo award
lol

... for most amount of pronouns invented in a single video game

>>535910896
more like the huge gay award

writing bad cause pronouns

>>535906506
Stone Shard.
You should try it out.
It added caves recently.

>>535674642 (OP)
I love Infra Arcana, just very cool, but every itme I play, it's too brutal for me. I guess I'll leave it for some time, maybe they'll make it more approachable and polished. It's just too frustrating, I can't take it.

>>535909570
We already talked at length about this, not only it is embarrassingly purple, it's written by people smugly thinking they're smart for using big words as a substitute for actually knowing how to write. It's quite literally DDA tier NPC writing.

>>535909570
it feels like someone just grabbing a thesaurus and replacing common words with fancy words.

Mhhh... how good is 27 Alchemy I wonder?

>>535920269
depends
are you going to make all the noise in the world and run out of mana, or handle yourself?

report back

not even that, going on a rambling tangent half the time as well
we're not having the gauntlets discussion again

these fuckers used to have a description in line with every other gauntlet

Oh and would you believe it some fucking retard in the qud wiki has made it so that you can only see the edit history if you're logged in as a user so I can't tell you these literally used to say "This stretchy, foam fabric hardens when pressure is applied to it."
Oh and let's not forget the elastyne gloves that got turned from
>"Gloves made of a stretchy black fabric that sticks to your hands."
to
>Mitts of gunk material that arconauts call black stretch was fished from rubber grottos and tailored to hand.
Yes the material that the arconauts call black
we don't get that black anymore these days!

What did they mean by this?

>>535920446
I died shortly after by tabbing into a reaching gnoll sergeant :^)

>>535925180
is this real?

I am about to finish my Dulra Aegis ... pray for me arelgee

>>535792260
Tricknology prevails

>>535933990
I found a fursuit in a closet while playing BN, but so far not a zombie wearing it, and no "gender socks" either. Maybe I'm lucky, or it's CDDA exclusive

What are some roguelikes for twinkhons/semipassoids (biacromial-height ratio below 25% yet still clocky due to skull issues/ribcage width)

>>535910007
The right to euthanize themselves.

>>535925180
BN isn't adding that.

>>535952896
BN added all the tranny meds, what's stopping them from adding fursuit zombies?

>>535919783
>>535919202
I think the purple prose can be a bit much but it's mostly justified by the dying earth setting which obscures the way things work and behave with countless years of cyclical history.

What is actually really bad about Qud's writing is the randomly generated text. It's horribly uninteresting and I don't get why the devs push this barebones gimmick as a feature.

>>535946137
BN (currently undergoing bone shaving)

>>535946137
>>535954481
You should be roguelike devs

My run ended because I missclicked a directional key just before phasing ended and lost a 40 hour run in Qud and I want to die

>bright nights no longer releases x32 android versions
Its over.

>>535955703
I recently started playing Qud on RP just because of this very reason

>>535955703
I have no idea how people can stand to play Qud on permadeath. Who wants to go through the same quests over and over?

>>535956250
Can't you compile it yourself?

>>535925180
humiliation ritual

>>535953769
>BN added all the tranny meds
kek, the most DDA has added is birth control pills and ribbed condoms. Baby nights is even more troon'd than DDA.

>>535956250
Just buy a new phone dude lel, x64 stuff isn't expensive

>>535963389
I'm retarded.
>>535966327
I'm poor.

>>535979095
you're a perfect addition to this thread then.

>>535981632
to this website, or, dare i say it, to this world

No, I'd say this thread.

Shadowed is so complicated man. I want to make my own character but the presets are already complicated enough.

>>536008948
Just bee yourself.

Huh, so exotic assemblies are a thing now.
Imagine tactical phaseshift set.

>>535916158
Me too. Is there something else like this? I just hate autoexplore-slop

Has anyone ever made something like Infra Arcana but set in medieval Japan with 7 cool classes and hundreds of perks and great sound and music?? I'm dying here fellas

>>536039712
Drop some keys if you want to shill

>>536016678
Pretty sure you could always do assemblies with exotics. Or at least it was on DRL. In fact, some of the best assemblies are on a exotic.

>>536039712
It probably doesn't even have autoexplore so I'll have to pass on that one, bruv.

i came, i saw, i concurred

I mostly came

I just want old transmutation school back.

>>536030672
I guess I'll try Qud for some time until I hit a diifficulty wall or beat a run.
Qud has its share of problems, the biggest being too much text, but it's kinda well made and frequently updated, so devs seem to care for it.

The sweet kiss of the summer morning sun on your skin.

>>535954020
The procgen used for texts is as bad as the one generating ruins and caves

Gomes in Bloatcrawl have 5 apt in Stealth, Earth and Evocations lol

URW is going to work on marriage and permanent companions for upcoming versions
Peak comfy life soon

Should I buy Shadowed or Age of Mythology: Retold? (-50% sale) I can't afford both (third worlder)

What's the best DCSS fork nowadays?

>>536087010
autoexploreslop

>>535806516
Not until they let me create a custom character

>>536087682
I've heard some people say early game is easy because you can just autoexplore + tab without thinking about anything until you reach Lair, and if you die then you just instantly restart with minimal progress lost anyway.

I look all around and didnt find a dwarf fortress thread. Is this the last of it?
I am asking because I am a bit of a creative type and wrote a dwarf fortress fanfic a while back and wanted to know what people thought of it.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/30293/slaves-to-armok-rebirth-of-the-shinerock-a-dwarf

>>536098359
this general is definitely more toxic
usually talking about cataclysm too

>>536098359
The dorf thread is on /vst/ since they allow general there now.

>>536093825
I watch those people play on webtiles for entertainment. They don't make it very far because they never stop tabbing even after making it to lair.

>>536102432
is vrpg too busy for generals

I just spent a fucking week playing elin selectively breeding api crops through like 70 different plots and filtering through dozens of failed seed enhancements to have +15 END potency only to realize I don't use api nuts for anything in any of my recipes.

>>536102432
I still cannot understand how/why vst became a thing when general for all sorts of 4x, strategy and tactical games (except grand strategies because fuck those) is as active as before, which is constant near-death.

>>536106438
Not even true, games like starsector moved to /vst/ because it wasn't active enough for /vg/. /vst/ may be the dedicated Paradox board, but it still serves its purpose.

all they had to do was to create a gacha generals board and vg would be usable by niche generals again

>>536108394
There's a good chance some guy would point out random uncontrolled item drops and say we belong in the gatcha board
over and over

>>536106438
For some stupid reason making multiple small vidya boards and letting vg become the gacha board was deemed a better idea than kicking all the coomers to a containment board
I'm not complaining though 90% of what I play is /vst/ material

true roguelike gacha when

Is there a cure for tab syndrome? I keep getting myself killed in jhc because I just mindlessly spam f all the time.

>>536116475
hahaha how is tab syndrome real hahaha nigga just stop pressing buttons like nigga plan your turn hahaha

>>536102432
thanks for the info.

How's Dungeons of Dredmor?
The movement being only 4 direction moved me off it but it seems interesting still

>>536116475
Play DC:SS pick a SpBr and start worshipping Qaz

>>536116475
You have to fail so many times that failure becomes boring.
You have to get so bored with failure that planning your turn is worth it.

You have to know so much about failing that failure does not actually surprise you. You have to press tab until the dopamine from pressing tab is no longer enough.

You have to learn to love "trying" more than you love "rolling the dice". You have to learn to enjoy effort before you forget how to love failure. If you don't, then you'll just fail to love either, and then you'll quit.

And that's what decides if you'll suck at this game forever.

I should try an actually fun game one of these days
it's probably like giving crack to an amish

yeah no I seriously need an actually good fun game to play not this dumb boring rpg shit
I'm gonna check what people are doing on /v/

So dwarf fortress adventure mod was very lalckluster and pointless, is there a game that does what adventure mode is supposed to be doing? an open worlrd to explore with that level of detail

>>536127841
moi ploimp hoilmets

>>536128030
nasty

I really hate this

>>536116475
I get attached to my characters so I don't do this
try writing a background for every character
not sure what jhc is mind you

>>536106438
i appreciate the slowness of it, but a lot of anons dont know that generals moved there

I've gotten into lair on a PoNe, through no fault of my own. Several times I've gotten to single digit HP while surrounded and kept meleeing with my dagger only to somehow survive.
I think I understand Necromancer now, it's all about getting the ball rolling, you nuke for one or two turns and now you've got fugue stacks and zombies.
The Stabber/Agony default combo can actually function pretty well, you go for the most powerful enemy, blitz him down and raise him as a zombie, then use him to kill more and create more zombies, etc...

My only complaints about necro now is that it's so damned intentionally inconsistent. EVERYTHING is a dice roll for some reason, and not a good one either. Your wisp is a coin toss, getting zombies is a coin toss, and ontop of that the entire strategy of the build is a coin toss every fight where you have to burn al your health and mana to win.

Also I think vamp drain is bugged, it doesn't really seem to do nearly as much damage as it should and barely heals anything.

>>536137982
wat gaem?

>>536138252
dcss poltergeist necromancer

>>536133108
fuck i was going to post this and be like "look what i found on reddit guys"

>>536116475
Best difficulty for DoomRL is Ultra-Violence IMO.
It's not too hard, but you can't ever faceroll on it (maybe by the very end of the game, if your build comes online with vengeance), so it generally keeps you focused.

>>536137982
I've won a few poltergeists and I think PoNe is a miserable combo on a species with 90% base HP and bad AC. It's probably a mistake to train Necromancy highly on PoNe because you don't have enough base-line power to get the ball rolling on Animate Dead. Ideally you want Ice spells because Ice spells give you AC. If you start Necromancer then you can just take a few levels in Necromancy to get a few of your starting spells castable, then switch into something more reliable for killing things.

There are really only two things that work well with Poltergeist. Throwing always deals good damage (you have the best throwing aptitude excluding small races). And AoE debuffs like Metabolic Englaciation will give you 25 AC with the racial ability. Anything else you ever do with this race will be gimped if you don't have stacks of AC, whereas you're tankier than a gargoyle if you do have stacks. Necromancy doesn't give you stacks, so I would literally just train enough Necromancy to use Grave Claw. Maybe Vampiric Draining. Then look for a decent weapon, spellbook, or god to carry your midgame.

Poltergeist is also a species with high stealth and high aptitudes in conditional effects, so you have to run around the early game excluding a bunch of shit you don't want to find. It's very tedious if you ask me but it's not necessarily a bad race if played optimally.

how does a fire extinguishier cause a barrel to explode?
it did at least seem to extinguish myself

>>536137982
easily the shittiest caster background. worst part is any retardo can worship yred and instantly become a properly functioning necromancer

>>535674642 (OP)
*gasp* *pant* *gasp* *pant* *sigh* *sputter*

Depression Quest roguelike when?

what's roughly the best 15-rune melee character build these days? something with wu jian and just spam heavenly storm with death form?

>>536103002

Otabbing is sometimes the way to go because it's mindless fun in the same way a game like diablo is fun. i tab like a motherfucker and have like a 15 percent win rate -- but ive been playing for ~13 years

>>536145515
Quasimorph really good or meh?

odds - kms
evens - play roguelike
primes - play non roguelike

536173174 is not a prime number

>>536172119
NTA but it's a pretty fun strategy, the initial learning curve is pretty annoying and it can get pretty grindy once you know what you're looking out for, but I still think it's worth the money.

>>536127841
Elin

>>536173174
Unfortunate!

>2 points per arrow
Tough being a ranged build around here.

>>536170387

Best 15-rune melee is Formicid (for Shield + Executioners Axe). God choice is either your standard extended fair (TSO, Zin), or Wu Jian. Zin is my personal pick because Sanctuary is huge for a species that can't blink.

>>536127841
I know it will sounds as a joke but I don't see what else to suggest than CDDA and its forks. Maybe also Unreal World

The level of details and gruesomeness of DF adventure's combat system is pretty unique though.

I thought adventure mode had more meat to it now (beside the whole necromancy system) but what I read itt this thread implies it didn't change much in a decade

>>536127841
Cataclysm and Caves of Qud are the closest alternatives
Cataclysm is more of a match in terms of the amount of freedom you have to roleplay, DF is actually pretty good at that, there's just nothing to actually do

>>536187517
Wondering if you can just start with fireball and then live based on that alone.
Probably not.

>>536194846
It takes 18 spirit to use that fireball scroll so it probably shouldn't be offered as a starting item. Fire Breath is good at level 1 though.

how the FUCK do I learn how to play Caves of qud properly? I mean I'm having a hard time with controls, looking stuff thats on the same tile, and shit

>>536201741
Have you tried not being a dumbass zoomer with absolutely no memory retention to speak of.

>>536201741
Maybe look into the tutorial series from RogueRat and Big Simple on the youtube website

>>536202449
MR ADVERTISER GET DOWN

Would you play an elder scrolls RL?

>>536201741
There is a UI element in options you can enable that lists all nearby items. Don't think it's on by default which is wild because the game is near unplayable without it.

What fork of CDDA are you playin?

>>535953769
>>535952896
>>535925180
>>535965198
>>535933990
Why does this trigger you guys? There are big ass conventions filled with people wearing those, thus it follows there would be at least a few zombos wearing them

>>536213571
holy fuck it's sayo

And here I thought Horrorform would be a miserable glass cannon to play. Who even need stats? Enough dex for ~100 speed and the rest into Vigor. The Brud race ability heals for ludicrous amounts while Phoenix gives damage for free.
I did have shit luck with not getting many useful items; didn't find the Jade Pillum sadly. As for powers none of them really do much so I ended up dumping points into Agility just for the extra dodge.

>>536213571
TLG

>>536203428
will do, thanks!
>>536210656
thank you for the suggestion

>>536191870

I've done a number of FoFi characters (nemelex, ru, zin) and don't think it's viable at all for 15 runes. Doing 10-15 points more damage because you can wield an executioner's axe or great mace with a shield isn't worth the lack of tele/blink/haste. Zin also burns through piety like a motherfucker if you keep spamming sanctuary, even with the donations.

Discovered a broken interaction with MoM mod for DDA/TLG. Force push from level 1 can destroy every wall in the game if you push something with low enough weight, including reinforced walls. And this is after it was heavily nerfed to be useless against 95% of the enemies in the game.

>>536213571
tlg

Finally entered a zig today. Octapode with a flaming quickblade.
Had like 60-70 EV and a tower shield. It turns out, that's strong.

Got all the runes first and cleared zot, so basically I threw a win in the garbage.

Least I beat the first zig. In the future, I'll have to start throwing characters into the free zig when they don't have enough exp to progress.

Died in second zig. I think I might have self-damaged with chain lightning, but I'm not sure where my hp actually went.

>>536255941
At what moment would you recommend getting into a zig? Whenever you feel you don't have the power to actually tackle the endgame? Or just as a last minute challenge after basically beating the game?

>>536235160

I've never lost a FoFi of Zin in extended.

You effectively have infinite piety with Zin in extended because you can always just donate gold to top yourself up. Not that you need to though: you generate copious piety killing demons. You will generate far more piety than you will find blink scrolls: a character with blink scrolls but without sanctuary will run out of blink scrolls long before the character with sanctuary would run out of piety.

And Broad Axe vs Executioners axe: just ran the numbers on my last 15-rune Fofi win. Before armour and brand, the Exe Axe is ~50 DPT and a Broad Axe is ~35 DPT. So +15 is about right. But that's a nearly 50% damage increase. Before AC. Take AC into account and it's even better.

Other than *bands, what are some good RL for scumming in? DC:SS is getting rid of Pandemonium being endless so that's out

>>536213728
There's no soul to the degeneracy.
Kevin lazily dumps fursuits into the item pool.
A real dev would add convention centers with themed events and give fursuit zombies different stats like running on all fours.

>>536270993
coq has infinite random underground ruins, though they are persistant. Other than that I'm drawing a blank.
I think infinite dungeons is basically THE feature of *bands and every other type of RL is basically defined by not having them.
There's a shitload of *bands though, you surely haven't played most of them.

>>536270993
GearHead?
I'm not patient enough for it myself but iirc you can do some pretty crazy things with mechanics and robotics when you get them high enough.

>>536272689
I can never get the graphics to look good, they're always zoomed the fuck out and changing the pixel/font sizing never seems to save

>>536272946
I'll look at that

>>536273109
Show us your android waifu once you are finished building her.

>>536273620
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1565090/GearHead_Caramel/

Is this what you meant?

Looks like there's no way to get into Purgatory in Jupiter Hell Classic yet.

>>536265174
1. never enter a zig

2. enter a zig when you've finished everything in the game and you've obtained every or almost every resistance in the game, along with significant stat bonuses in the form of slaying, evasion, or dex/str/int, along with a particularly good necklace bonus and damage source. You are not, in this case, actually attempting to win. You are attempting to finish a zig, and you accept that this will kill you, despite being exceptionally strong in this particular run. You fully understand how to gain advantages from your god, and have a reasonable number of powerful scrolls and, if not in death form, potions.

3. You can enter a zig in order to improve your chances of winning if you are about to lose due to insufficient exp or consumables. Every floor of a zig can silence you and then hurl damnation at you, meaning every floor can simply kill an ill-equipped player with nearly no counterplay. If you simply NEED exp, mut pots, or something else in order to progress, you can do maybe 10 floors of a zig and then abandon it.

As an example, a caster who can't actually enter hell/tomb/pan/zot5/abyss without a good chance of death, may still be able to nuke many combinations of enemies from across the screen, and so may be able to use zig to get buff real quick.

4. be creative. I'm a first timer talking out of my ass.

>>536273973
https://github.com/jwvhewitt/gearhead-1/releases

>>536280720
>pascal
>lgpl
holy fucking based

>>536280720
Anon... I am not playing this game

>>536282407
Find a version from before he went full woketard, it's why I prefer Gearhead 1 over anything else he released.

>>536273983
They made the Cryomancer an Archvile, holy shit.

It's pretty fun how they managed to fusion DoomRL with Jupiter Hell. And we're getting DoomRL updates along with this game too, so even if you don't buy this game, everyone wins.

good RLS with giant armies of summons or undead?

>>536293550
Rift Wizard allows you to flood the screen with summons (and cause endless lag)
You can carry around like a 4-5 undead and summon more in combat in tome4

>>536216752
Only up to cycle 4 myself but I like how much variety there is even if most of it probably wouldn't fly in the double digits
Despite being an auto battler there are real decisions to make like floating points and speccing into items you find rather than having a build set in stone from turn 1

>>536293550
I'll second that tome4 necromancer is one of the classes that got the most love in updates, it can be played go wide with zombies, go tall with semi-permanent skeletons, and even 0 summon pure caster is one of the more viable mages

dcss 0.24

where can i read up to figure out what scenarios i am losing exp?
do i get full exp if i kill something outside of my LOS?
If i lay a fulimient prism bomb on the stairs below, then go up the stairs, do i get exp?
if i use luguno's corrupt ability on a level and the nuetral monster kill the mobs, do i get no exp?
what if i did most of the damage to TRJ with corrupt but a nuetral monster got the kill?
does the game differenciate exp whether i made a damaging cloud that killed a monster or if an ally/nuetral/enemy monster made the cloud with their own magic and they got the kill?
Is there any way i can look this stuff up?>

also do lower level spells like dazzling flash seem to cap out? seems as im getting into elf/vaults/depth, its getting hard and harder to blind stuff, and im a stealthy cat caster so i like to catstab a lot

so, what truly defines a roguelike /rlg/?

is it ascii tilesets, top down view, turn based combat, dogshit controls?

>>536303805
turn-based & grid-based is the main thing

>>536304097
not really
is ff3 a roguelke?

>>536304284
no transitions to static battles, that doesn't count

>>536304284
>>536303805

>>536303805
Roguelike, like all things, is defined best by what it isn't.

The binding of issac is a rougelite. It no longer qualifies for "like" and is instead "lite." Rouge legacy and hades are, similarly, rougelites. The main things which keep them from being "likes" are
1.Their persistent growth mechanics. While each individual run is quite like a full reset, individual runs are not full resets. The fact you can factory-reset your game and thus force it to be a different experience does not change what the experience actually is, which is once of perpetual progress, or at least burst of progress which alter the experience going forward.

Thus, a rougelike does not reward persistence itself, or change itself, but instead there is only a change in the player, and luck if you're stubborn enough. At most, it might have unlockable difficulties, but that's more like having a new game.

2. Their primary gimmicks. Here I am referring to the real-time platform-combat of legacy, the interactive bulelt-hell combat of issac, and the similar zone-dodging in hades. I'll also include the card-clicking of slay the spire. A rouge-like will take many of the basic ideas which allow the rougelike genera to work so easily, and intentionally inject a more directly engaging level of game play on top. These are intentional and wild departures from the conventions of the genera, and the focus is on those newly introduced mechanics, which the rouge-ness included only where it serves to expand the interest of that system.

Thus, a rougelike does not have such a gimmick, or that gimmick is at least significantly sidelined.

These details only serve as an answer if one already has an understanding of what both generas are. It's a clarification or the line between them. One could imagine a rougelike where the rouge elements do not exist to support the gimmick, but instead the gimmick exists to spice up the rouge elements. The game I'm thinking of is crypt of the necrodancer.

>>536306154
thank you for your answer

>>536306154
It's turn based, randomly generated, complex, happens on a grid in a dungeon, has shops and gold, and involves all characters moving at the same time. Most progression takes the form of unlock able characters. Most changes to the game involve new kinds of levels you can select or modes you can choose.

The only exception here is that you can unlock and adjust what items appear permanently, but lets pretend that isn't the case.

Ignoring the items, crypt of the necrodancer is using aspects of the rythm-game genre in order to improvise an more interesting food-clock, which is to say that the primary gimic exists in service of rougelike aspects, and not the other way around. In this hypothetical case, would necrodancer be a rougelike, or a rougelite, and why?

is cadence of hyrule a roguelike?

>>536306892
Almost, actually.
If it didn't play in real time, it would be.

>>536306154
>>536306669
I'd say the heart of a roguelike is the pacing, aka the ability to pause whenever you want and carefully examine and think through your every move as long as you want in as much detail as you want.
Much like a game of no time limit chess where you can walk away from the board and come back a week later with a solution to try.
As a side effect this means a roguelike must be sufficiently complex and difficult to warrant such pausing.

>>536306892
Seems to lack randomization, so no. It's not even rougelite.

It might be different later in the game, but at least the first 10 minutes are not rouge.
It's just zelda with a beat clock, far as I can tell.

>>536308102
I'm thinking about apple manor and feeling like you might be wrong.
Shit doesn't take that much planning, does it?

I only played it once or twice, so I might be wrong here.

>>536308102
isn't that basically any turn-based tactical game

what's the most quintessential element of a roguelike? proc-gen?

>>536308912
What, like fire emblem?
Are you saying fire emblem is a rougelite?

>>536309112
no i'm saying that's not unique to roguelikes
that exists in tabletop rpgs and tactical games like xcom

>>536308479
The difficulty is a secondary non-critical part, but the ability to just stop and think is crucial. As well as the complete lack of required execution skill. You press the button and a thing happens, there's no minigame where you have to dodge bullets or juggle fish.

>>536308912
Yeah, a roguelike is a basically a non-modal, proc-gen, turn-based, tactics game.
That's the core at least, there's all sort of other things that MOSTLY tent to be true but aren't always, like dungeons, item identification, overhead view, simple graphics, simulationist elements, combinatorial items, etc...

ok this really fucks me up
its a fucking CARD GAME

>>536309065
permadeath, no metaprogression

>>536309065
If I start a game of CS:GO or TF2, I can know to walk over to a certain point, aim my crosshair at a certain pixel, and toss a grenade over a wall where it will be likely to explode on an enemy before the match begins. You cannot do this in a rougelike, because there is no pre-known spot to throw from and no pre-known spot which is likely to yield a kill if blown up at a pre-known time. By having known elements with known answers, arena shooters fail to be rougelikes. That, and gunplay.

If you show me a tic-tac-toe board, I am perfectly capable of knowing the repercussions of every possible move as is relevant to me. Simply by being simple, tic-tac-toe fails to be a rougelike, even if the opponent moves first.

Chess is almost a rougelike, but the starting conditions are always the same, and so opening gambits are memorized, well known. At higher levels of play, despite the staggering complexity, experience in exact situations plays a primary role in skill level, and basic understanding of the pieces is immediately obtained. That, and both players move on different turns.

A rubix cube may almost be a rougelike. While memorization exists, that memorization is for the repercussions of specific sets of moves, not for specific gamestates. Moves are not simply "good", and do not have a specific known application over the course of a game. The starting state is random. you do not answer specific puzzles, but instead learn to apply your tools to every possible situation so that, no matter what, you can come out on top. Your victory is created through an understanding of the mechanics, and not an understanding of high-value actions. It is not a jigsaw. you do not simply put piece 10 in position 2B. You must instead understand the underlying system and operate it.

I think that's what a rougelike is "at heart", and that's why they require depth and randomization.

>>536310521
it kind of sounds like you're agreeing with

>>536306154
Streets of Rogue isn't a roguelike because its turn based.

Quasimorph isn't a roguelike because it has no endgame.

Path of Achra isn't a Roguelike because you can only move attack and stand still.

Rogue isn't a roguelike because its too old.

CCDA is the only real roguelike but it isn't a roguelike because nobody plays it.

"run-based" would be a better definition

>>536310756
wtf is CCDA

>>536310756
CCDA isn't a rougelike because it's a rougelike.

See, because you can just say any old thing.

2+7=g

but you gotta give the symbols meaning before they matter, and that's your job.

>>536303805
you threw a live grenade into the thread with this post

i hope you are pleased with yourself

>>536310902
>CCDA
cataclysm dark days ahead

>>536311225
that's cdda

>>536310889
run-based has more inffered meaning than proc-gen, it's like the idea created by multiple elements rather than a single element

>>536311343
I just assumed they're dyslexic

>>536311031
well I was curious and I asked, so yeah I am pleased
we're having a good conversation actually

>>536311031
it's been completely civil so far somehow

>>536312034
the grenade just has a very long fuse

>>536310756
CCDA HAS NO ENDGAME EITHER

>>536310756
CDDA is the most popular game in this thread, idk what you're complaining about

>>536313459
true, still a roguelike unless you're shitposting for (You)s

>>536313672
Alright fine lets give it a look
Anything so many people bellyache so vaguely about did nothing wrong.

> at the International Roguelike Development Conference 2008 and is the product of a
discussion between all who attended.
Alright right off the bat, a hint. Was this a debate? If it was a debate, how can a full confrence of people all get their ideas across and respond to all counter-arguments generated by every other attendee? No way.

So did certain people speak as representatives or otherwise simply dominate the discussion while most people existed nearby and offered the implication of legitimacy just by being their? If so, I would expect some very specific and narrow ideas here, clearly mashed together from the vision of a few particularly forward people. Probably not.

What probably happened, here was brainstorming. There isn't the time for back-and-forths on everything, just everyone responding to particular ideas. Assuming this is right, I would expect that the definition is inclusively-generated. The ideas here aren't tested and true, but instead cover all the little tidbits that they could think of during brainstorming which then did not receive outright rejection.

As this definition, then, was not created by a thinking human mind aiming for coherence, the information of this definition has to be interpreted from that perspective. This would explain, already, basically every negative response I've seen to this interpretation.

>It's a point system full of ideas which have weighted importance based on how accepted the ideas are
Fuckin yep

Everyone alive other than me is just media illiterate, simple as.

There may be no need to even keep going.

my back hurts

>>536303805
see >>535753596

>>536301317
>I like how much variety there is even if most of it probably wouldn't fly in the double digits
If you find the synergy, most element combinations and most character archetypes (melee, ranged, magic, summon etc) can actually work in Achra even at higher cycles. Some are better than others but there's not much that straight up doesn't work if built properly. Summons do struggle against the final boss' AoE attacks but even summons have ways to make it work, like dealing damage when the summons die, activating extra attacks from your familiars, or just picking up a boss killing ability if your build can't do it otherwise.

>>536323524
I think the fact that you post about it on 4chan is more pitiful than your back pain.

>>536323524
lose weight

>>536323524
Quit trying autofellatio, it will damage your back permanently

>>536348424
no

Surely i won't die

Realtime with pause roguelikes

Shmup card battle roguelikes

>>536357746
Its dangerous dammit!

>>536360570
did you died?

>>536389118
i saw so scary rand boss around the corner so I left. Fuck the crypt

>>535674642 (OP)
This is one of the funnest runs I've ever had. Mountain Dwarf Forgewright of Beogh. I got pic related on D:3, and a,+4 ring if slaying and an artifact +8 spear with +6 Int and +3 dex.

All of this before D:4. The robe works perfectly with the Apostle challengers as tough encounters to level it up.

Scary thing is I still almost died multiple times early on. First due to Maggie and an Acid Dragon. I forget the other 2 encounters. But I've had 3 times already before Lair where my hp was down to less than 5. One case I literally had only 1hp.

Been dumping my exp into fighting and dodging and armor now since my "killdude" skills are more than good right now. Damage output is more than sufficient, it's just a matter of surviving now

Wish there was a game like CDDA that people actually play and has its own alive thread, feels lonely playing it

>>536406543
I used to play cdda. I insisted on using arrows because the ammunition is producible, melee only really works when you have the game knowledge to never put yourself in a bad fight, and roller blades suck ass when getting punched knocks you on your ass. Managed to farm. Made so many sealed jars of woods soup and lumps of sourdough. Eventually, I would get a vehicle with enough storage and room for all my bullshit after clearing a few towns. Also produced drums of alcohol for med kits, and stuffed a few cbm's in myself. Last time I played, I was sitting in the middle of a swamp and turning water into bleach so I could inject it into my veins for like mutations or something.

The issue with cdda is that, despite how many possible tiles exist, the game does not actually change based on them. You walk down the street, clearing out the majority of zombies in a town, and then you comb through every house for plastic and tools and books and food which you drag back home with you so you can nurse your wounds while you read and craft for a week. After you've burned a year of calories and time, you rip stuff off of local vehicles to feed your motor addiction. Your personal transport will not be unique or worth showing people, just like it wasn't worth showing off all the books you read or the months you spent eating moldy marshmallows and earning a vitamin deficiency. It will just be "the bike", basically, and will let you cart more shit home and escape faster zombies if you can't handle them.

And it's fun. Once I decide I've completely mastered dcss, I may re-download cdda and spend my time reading by the light of the shelter monitor and buzzing my cock tip with a dildo for the mood bonus.

But it is a lonely game.

>>536410418
>world has fema camps full of loot pinatas to raid on day 2-3
>handcraft your meds and ammo and food instead
you really like watching a green bar spin, eh?

>>536417478
I've seen like 3 fema camps ever

done lots of playthroughs
nothing is more dependable than just making the shit yourself

>>536309065
turn based, grid based, primitive graphics. In other words, abstraction/simplicity of format, which makes mechanical complexity feasible for the developer. That's what I find most valuable about the genre. Other people could say procgen and permadeath if they find the replayability and tactics aspects more important

>>535771495
>Dying with 8 (scroll? combat consumables?) talismans
Talismans of flame better do less than nothing, anon...

>>535876183
I liked RW1 and RW2 was a sub-2-hour refund for me
Didn't feel like either an expansion on the gameplay mechanics OR an extension of the existing content. Just... A major rebalance pass to make you have less action economy, spamming more spells for less effect.
POE Ruthless mode desu

Roguelikes are like the legos of video games. Composed worlds

>>536118951
Bizarrely enjoyable despite the borderline toilet humor and weirdo design choices.
Suffers a little from imbalanced design- Not everything is always viable -and the lulrandumb artifact sacrifice bullshit
Worth the jorkin but do note I have never payed money for it and have no idea how much they have/haven't updated it in the 10+ years since it was "2.4/5, just like my peanits"

>>536421168

the dredmor devs went bankrupt, so the game is frozen in time now

>>536172119
Quasimorph REALLLLLY wants you to play the dumb fucking contract/stock market minigame and pump reputation with corporations to unlock specific gear you want and the devs are in love with that so no matter how frequently the rework everything else that shit stays front and center

If you like that kind of Elona/CoQ "infinitely reroll shops and perma farm one thing every game" style of bullshit it's fuckin peam.
If you don't you're gonna hit a brick wall where you build some spooky cannibal knife throwing speed demon that suddenly can't handle their shit because you didn't focus on the opaque corpo babysitting minigame to get the good gear for your build

>>536284012
What's even the point? Legitimately asking
Every post I see makes (nu)DoomRL look exactly like Jupiter Hell (which was already "basically literally DoomRL 2.0")

So like, why?

>10 relics now
>all useless
Are relics in BN supposed to be bad?

>>536326914
>>536301317
Lowkey Path of Achra opens up MORE viable combinations at higher cycles than it closes off. The astronomical amounts of Glory you get enable combinations you wouldn't be able to make functional enough to abuse the synergies before dying to attrition in lower cycles.

>>536421847
They probably deserved it desu

>>536424101
It's 2025 and I'm getting filtered, I never should have come back to this shithole

>>536423004
relics? do you mean artifacts or the holy symbol you find in cathedral basements? Artifacts have always ranged from being busted by giving +speed to outright suicidal in spawning rainbow dogs, relics on the other hand are just a fancier cross necklace.

>>536419262
In his backpack they kind of do. You have to put them on your prep slots to use them instantly.

>>535546675
I still think an elder scrolls RL could be pretty decent.

>>536425115
I meant artifacts. The only ones even slightly useful is a cape that makes you insane for +4 strength. Kind of useless since you can’t use meds to treat the effect and it makes you drop your weapon. The other is a pair of boots that lets you see through walls, but reduce dexterity by 3.

>>536429704
It's just schizo from an item, +4 str in return is amazing.
As for the boots, seems like something that would be handy for checking for turrets.

>>536429930
My mutant cyborg character has 22 str. I’d rather just use the exosuit.

>>536430719
I don't believe there is anything stopping you from using both.

>>536402654
Okay, so fun information. Beogh is not strong enough to pull things from Lugnou's grasp. I went against a Sonja and didn't realize she had a distortion dagger until after she died. I noticed 1 of my apostles was missing and checked. Sure enough, he didn't die, he got banished into the abyss. I tried using recall apostle but it gives a "nothing answered your call" message. In other words, my apostle is just lost to the abyss. I wonder if I go later if I can encounter him there, and if using recall in the abyss would actually summon him to me. I guess the brightside is if I ever end up being banished now I have a man on the inside. Pretty interesting interaction here lol. Not sure if it's deliberate or not but the lore implications are cool.

>>536445861
Soooo glad I almost never get these "unique enemy wielding the 5% Run Deletion Wand" people always report

>>536447897
Sonja has a distortion weapon a large % of the time but you can just not let her hit you. She is very easy and only exists to check if you're mindlessly tabbing. Randomly generated distortion weapons on the other hand are very rare.

>>536447897
The distortion blades aren't that big of a deal for most characters. Definitely just fight at range or put a meatshield between you. The wands of warping are the real terror, especially in early dungeon. Hits surprisingly hard, often blinks you further away and can banish you.

>>536453352
I don't think they can banish you? It's not a miscast or distortion-damage. It's a forced blink, isn't it?

>>536406543
CDDA is the most popular roguelike in this thread, granted that means like 3 people play it but still idk what you're on about

>>536453668
You are correct. Not sure why I thought it could banish

maurice just taught me that scrolls of immolation make an enemy not-invisible anymore.

I was use-ID ing for a TP scroll and learned something instead.

>>536456785
obvious now that i think of it, but had never considered reading one while getting molested by ghost moth with afking summons

>use teleportation artifact in vehicle
>cargo spot I was standing in gets deleted along with all my items
>game autosaved
rip to whatever junk was in that 300L/300L cargo, DDA experimental was not worth it

I hate skysharks so much.

skylard

I have finally decided
Dwarf Fortress Adventure mode with DFHack ad-fort is the ultimate roguelike experience
You get the best of both worlds, the greatest sandbox basebuilding system with great roguelike mechanics, and the worldbuilding and lore generation in DF is genuinely the best

Alright which of you is going to give some tips for Infra Arcana? I usually only make it to the second area every other game, the XP feels too swingy. Am I just being retarded trying to see everything on every floor?

And what the fuck is Flagellant's deal?

Any roguelikes for darkgreypilled cryptocels?

>>536486772
>Infra Arcana
Isn't that the Lovecraft one?

>>536486772
>Am I just being retarded trying to see everything on every floor?
Yes. I've barely played any of it but the first and most important lesson I learned was DO NOT explore the whole floor. Immediately find a downstair then explore around it, making sure not to get cut off, until you get spooked and then run away and go down to escape.

>>536461584
dda is never worth it

>>536461584
>game autosaved
wtf are you talking about

>dark days ahead
>bright nights
>the last generation
which one do i play?

>>536514739
Bright nights is the one you should play.
TLG and DDA when 0.I stable comes out can warrant a playthrough afterwards just to see the differences.

>>536490764
Most likely, theres a market for it. Whats darkgreypilled btw? just slightly less than blackpilled?

>>536515143
why bright nights

>>536422698
I don't even understand the question.
If you mean why have 2 games that look the same, it's because one pays for the other one. The funds collected by Jupiter Hell Classic pay the dev team that updates DoomRL too so it keeps being free and getting updates.
If the question was why make Jupiter Hell Classic play more like DoomRL, it's because some people (mysefl included) thought Jupiter Hell would play somewhat like DoomRL at launch, and they really were 2 very different games that even if both are good for their own reasons, didn't scratch the same itch.
So, with Jupiter Hell Classic being more in line with what DoomRL lovers wanted from the start, I think there's a lot to be offered with 3 roguelikes on the table.
And I really like they went this route, since that means more DoomRL for me, baby!

Dogshit game can't even starve to death
...Where the fuck are the stairs where the fuck are the stairs where the fuck are the stairs where the fuck are the stairs

>>536529097
whoooaahaha I'm going crazy whooooahhhh

>>536527287
its the most "roguelike" of the 3

>>536527287
NTA, but Bright Nights is stable and fun. It's the oldest of the living forks, and has been pursuing its vision of what good Cataclysm looks like for a long while now.

On the other hand, DDA has become tedious and annoying to play, TLG is an attempt to walk back some of the worse changes in DDA, which is cool, but I think it needs more time to cook.

>>536532375
good answer

>>536486772
Don't try to fight. Run from everything
>>535674642 (OP)
Man I ran into Mennas the Angel and immediately abandoned my God to switch to Yred, went through penance, all of elves 1, 2 and most of elf 3, while under wrath, almost died several times and used up most of my escape potions and scrolls, all just to get to piety 4 and get bind soul, went back and binded mennas's soul as a permanent ally, just to realize the enslaved version has lower stats.

I'm pretty mad right now. Honestly I killed a handful of uniques in the process of piety farming who I think might've been better anyways due to their abilities and spells. I only got him specifically for his absurd stats. What a waste.

>>536515143
no pockets no play

>>536540643
That being said, he is still absolutely slaughtering everything in Vaults. Between him, hellfire mortar, and my animated crystal armor that hits for max 2x120 there's not much that can touch me at this point of the game. Although his constantly casting silence is a bit annoying. The zombie army is just icing on the cake.

>>536540643
Those stats look better than ?/m entry for Mennas? Undead resists, will∞, extra pip of AC. Only thing you lose is rElec. And of course the Sacred Scourges get converted.

>>536544276
Yeah I noticed that. It was the sacred scourge that were making him so strong. He had a max damage of I think 240ish when I encountered him

>>536540643
>Mass Confusion
>Silence
>Minor Healing
That still looks really good honestly. Shutting down casters while cleaving them with your axe has to be one of the best feelings out there.

Was just playing Jupiter Hell Classic, this is much more fun than Doom RL was. Got wrecked in a Callisto Anomaly floor. Room felt sus, the moment I grabbed an item.....I should've known. Reeeee toxic reaver's attack launched me into the lava!!!!

>a cute pre-fab in a regular forest tile out of nowhere
Huh, the first time seeing this.
That's pretty nice, I didn't know I wanted this, but more of stuff like that will improve the overworld feel quite a bit.

>>536304284
>>536303805
simul-turn based grid-based 2-d top-down gameplay
>>536306154
TBOI is a 2d twin-stick shooter
It is not a "rogue-lite". So-called "rogue-lites" are a fabrication of marketing teams and idiotic independent developers. It's a meaningless marketing term that does not define any established genre. TBOI is a game with permadeath and metaprogression. That's it.
Defining RLs by anything other than the wholly unique game-state that is the staple of the genre is meaningless. SuperHot is a simulturn-based FPS game. You have all the time in the world to make decisions. Is it a roguelike?
If your save gets deleted when you die, does that make it more or less of a roguelike?
No, because these simul-turn based actions do not take place on a 2d grid from a top-down view.
>>536306892
the gamestate is influenced by real-time elements making it not a roguelike
the core of the game does fit the genre conventions, however
>>536310521
chess isn't simul-turn based
>>536310756
streets of rogue isn't a roguelike because it's a top-down twin-stick shooter

top 5 roguelike races irl?

>elves forcing firestorm hit it at start of sbranches
>humans don't get it until halfway through vault:5
a bit rough

>>536554670
>chess isn't simul-turn based
I already mentioned that. You're responding with a correction which agrees with the thing you're correcting, on account of not actually interfacing with the ideas you're responding to.

I would be more specific, but that's the problem with being specific when talking to someone who doesn't care what you're saying, isn't it?

Similarly, you simply did not interface with the term "rougelite" based on the intentions of the people who used it, and so your response again fails to have any relevance, by choice.

To understand how black this place is, understand that they start calling roguelikes "simultaneous turn based" simply because of the lack of animations. These niggas so simple they might as well be ooga boogas.

>>536555760
You know what? Dcss is not simultaneous. Your character moves, which takes up a certain number of auts. As each of those auts elapses, certain characters get moves, which then places them all on a delay based on the number of auts that their move costs. In a simple example:

You spend 20 auts swinging a heavy tripplesword
a spriggan moves next to you
a spriggan hits you with a dagger
the spriggan hits you with a dagger again
it is now your turn

This is exactly how it works in chess.

You move a pawn
your opponent moves a queen
it is now your turn

>>536555760
you didn't mention it as the immediate reasoning as to why chess isn't a roguelike
you first said that it isn't an RL because starting conditions then you said it isn't simulturn based which is why it isn't a roguelike
I replied with "chess isn't simulturn based" to point out that that is the far more important factor
the shorthandedness of that comment should have been enough indication
you're right in saying that I don't care what you have to say and that's because you fail to understand that the only thing that matters in defining whether or not something is a roguelike is whether or not it adheres to the Rogue game-state
anything else is meaningless
the intentions of the people who use the phrase "rogue-lite" is to imply "permadeath + metaprogression + procgen"
however, that isn't a genre, it's just a bundle of disparate mechanics that can be added onto existing game genres
FTL is a real-time strategy game, TBOI is a twin stick shooter, both are "rogue-lites"
The term is meaningless as it does not bring any clarity to what you are actually playing and only further serves to muddy the waters of genre definitions

>>536557226
>FTL is a real-time strategy game
???

I want a roguelike that will force me to adapt and build my character based on item drops and situations I find myself in. I just think it is lazy game design when the game pretty much expect me to select a class/build to stick on even before the game starts. I'm a webdev but I'm considering making one on my spare time

>>536563629
Well, the games don't force you to adapt like that, but quite often you find items which benefit one play style over another.

For instance, if you never find a maw talisman, but you find a quickblade of holy wrath, you might want to consider investing in short blades instead of shapeshifting.

Or, you might want to not invest in evocations if you never find a wand for the first 12 floors.

Sure, you CAN win by forcing a build, but you're more likely to win if you at least adjust a little, and focus a bit more on neutral skills until you find some tools.
It's a thing a better player would do instead of a mandatory thing, or it seems so to me.

>>536563629
need a slaythespirelike roguelike

>>536563629
Dcss is very much like this. Many a character will completely shift gears and go in a different direction due to a particularly good item or spell.
>>535674642 (OP)
Cleared up to Vaults: 4, what should I do now? I have cleared all of elf except the hall of blades and the final vault on Elf: 3. S branches and Lair obviously cleared except for Slime. Should I do Slime, finish elf, go into depths, or just go straight for it and dive into the Vaults: 5 ambush?

For reference my character cleared Vaults without much difficulty, although I *did* actually die once om Vaults: 3 due to an unusually bad situation snowballing and ending up cornered and overwhelmed. I had dreamshard amulet equipped so I'm still in the game (it gives you 1 extra life)÷. I'm also currently facing Beogh wrath which at this stage isn't really anything scary on its own. But does carry the small risk of getting smited by his wrath when I'm already low on hp.

Also for what it's worth, after Vaults:3 I had a huge power increase and I o-tabbed through all of Vaults: 4 without even breaking a sweat.

What do I do, /rlg/?

>>536566812
If you have any doubt about valut 5, don't do it. Simple.
I think basically any character which can clear vault 4 can clear all of slime other than the royal jelly. So, clear all of slime other than the royal jelly, but keep in mind that you may need to burn mut pots if you get malmutated, so it helps if you have some way to avoid getting malmutated.

At that point, if you have any doubt about V:5 or TRJ, then don't do them. Just do depths up until the vault door.

At that point, you're getting desperate if you haven't found an answer for V:5 or TRJ. You've already cleared everything reasonable, and now have to do something unreasonable. That means hell:0, crypts, and abyss. Abyss threatens to malmute you and loves regen+, so probably not that. Hell only works if you won't instantly die from getting dragged off of the staircase. Crypt has a lot of specific counterplay to keep in mind, mostly based around being undead or not or having necromancy/holy wrath.

If you think you can get the abyss rune and you don't think you're going to ever actually get strong enough to do V:5 or TRJ, then just hope abyss goes easy on you.

>ok but what do i actually do
I have no idea why you didn't do hall of blades. Indevidual living weapons aren't that strong, which implies you have a build which can't deal with them specifically, which means you're strong against certain things and weak against others. I would do slime. You might not. If you won't do slime, you'll do depths or crypt, so keep that in mind.

Also, single elfs aren't that strong and so patience renders elf:3 possible. Just don't fight two at once.

>>536566812
elf is not that spooky, unless you insist on running in and fighting to the death in the open like a gorilla. if i've got rf+, relec, and some anti-bowfucker tech already, i've started full clearing it directly after orc
as for grabbing vault or slime rune, depends on char of course, sometimes one is free as fuck and the other is a death trap that you'ld just skip completely if you're doing 3 rune.

>>536569690
>>536568980
Thanks anons
>>536546931
Yeah mass confusion and healing are great. Silence was getting kind of annoying though. I am a hybrid and having to quickly spam or time my casts before he silenced in every fight was getting annoying. Also some enemies can cast anyways due to it being innate abilities. Still I think I have maybe made a mistake and dropped him for another unique. Honestly I think keeping him would've maybe been better for the huge crowds... oh well.
>>536540643
Here's my new bound soul. Not shoddy at all. Not as versatile as Mennas but definitely no pushover. Also won't keep silencing me so that's nice. I saw posts online saying her storm continues hurting you and your minions after binding her as a perma companion, but I did a quick wiz mode test and it's fixed now thankfully.

>>536570708
Ah yeah. She definitely doesn't hit as hard. Hmm...

>>536570708
Yeah, Silence will fuck you up in some instances, if you're unable to send him into a corner so you can read your scrolls, but you should be playing to never get in those kind of situations anyway I think.
Anyway, I don't think Bai Suzhen keep her gimmick of transforming into a more powerful dragon when in this spectral form, and I'm not sure if it also gets her storm clouds passive either.
You probably should look for yet another unique.

>>536571130
Yeah, I'll trade her out as soon as I encounter a better unique. She's not bad but definitely a downgrade from Mennas. Honestly it might be awhile before I find anyone as strong as him that has that sort of utility. I've already killed a lot of the better options earlier before I decided to abandon Beogh. Like the guy who corrupts and summons abyss monsters, he would've been fucking awesome to have

>>536571745
Aaaaand she's dead. I have no clue how but something killed her off screen. Welp.

In Jupiter Hell Classic where do I assemble stuff? Found a schematic for boots.

Can I disable skill rust in TLG?

>>536572102
Depths has some great uniques you might find. Xtahua would be a good Bind Soul candidate.

>>536580179
there is no skill rust in tlg, hence why you cannot turn it off

>>536587878
At least the guy got some sense in him

I miss when the only game we played and posted with DCSS.
What went wrong?

>>536593604
Attacks of opportunity, purple prose, and every spell being forced into a "positioning matters" framework.

>>536593604
The devs ruined it, that's what went wrong.
It all went downhill when they removed Hill Orc and replaced it with some gay dwarf.

>>535674642 (OP)
Survival horror roguelike?

>cleared a zigg for the first time
>upgraded from +2 gloves and +2 helmet to +2 gloves of str and +2 helmet of int
So this is the power of farming?

>>536593604
DCSS wasn't good since they removed literally all good wands from the game, and even before that the game was spiraling the drain for a while.
The last patch notes that had more good than bad were from the 0.13. because despite Skald marking the beginning of overdesigned crap, it was at least baseline fun.

gae

What a solid run. Who needs speed when you can just sit in a corner while Paragon applies a shitload of buffs to my minions. Projective Link was amazing as it allowed me to apply buffs to my minions from the safety of my corner. Did take me too long to realise Psychokinesis was killing my own minions though.

>>536610867
Just look at this familiar: 300k armour & block and hits for 1M, and I don't think the extra 131% damage from Attune is included in that value.

>>536602826
I'll argue it was .19, which is the version I stopped playing it. There were still lots of removals but they were still adding stuff to so there was a reason to follow the development.
.19 marks the point where they removed Pakellas after adding it in .18, which started feeling like they were adding stuff just to remove them, it also added Usk and Hepli, which to my knowledge makes it the last patch with significant additions

>Doctors don't use autoclaves for the shit they operate your insides with
>CBMs need to to be clean
retarded

>>536410418
>dcss
how good is that?

>>536602826
there is literally nothing wrong with .33

>>536620130
rawr x3
uwu

>>536614728
Why are Asians so weird looking and why does someone keep posting this alien around here?

>>536619350
I wonder how much longer it will be until you have a free autoclave to use at Rubrik's castle. After all, he does basically everything else

Hopefully there's someone with autism knowledge of Caves of Qud here. I'm assuming I'm either misunderstanding how flight equipment works or the wiki is wrong/out of date.

Anti-Gravity Boots supposedly give +350% movement speed bonus while activated but this can't possibly be accurate for two reasons; my 340MS does not change at all and I'm noticing that for most enemies I would normally get to move multiple times before they move once but while the boots are active most enemies practically move 1:1 with me which makes me think that not only are they not providing any movement speed bonus, they're actually setting my speed to the base 100 without actually reflecting that in my stats.

I hate ... rogues

>>536623205
>and why does someone keep posting this alien around here?
autism

>>536627946
I have this memory in the back of my head that Anti-Gravity Boots and other sources of flying only grants movement speed bonus when traversing the world map. Think they also reduce the chance to get lost?

>>536627946
flight doesn't give movespeed, it gives overmap speed. I'd never noticed that it set MS to base but I guess most MS sources do obviously require contact with the ground

>>536647901
I wonder if that's true for cathedra. That'd be weird.

Can DDA mods be used for TLG?

>>536650257
nah you need a TLG version

>>536650375
Fuck, I guess that's not happening anytime soon.

>>536619485
it's a great game. (mostly) ignore the haters. most of the complaints are just complaints about flavor. take the complaint someone posted about replacing hill orc with mountain dwarf: MD has nearly the same stats as HO, plus some added bonuses on top. so unless you have some special affinity for Orcs in fantasy, you won't care.

(on a similar note, Revenants also have near identical stats to the now-removed Ghouls, but with some bonuses on top)

>>536652947
the complaints that aren't flavor-related have more weight, but I think really come down to personal preference. the game has trended away from cheesable or spammable tactics, and "compressed" some item categories to remove items with a lot of overlap in utility. this makes for a "tighter" designed game, but if you prefer a game with more to discover, you may like the game less.

>>536653364
>>536652947
How deep is it compared to CDDA?

>>536653553
It is a very, very different game than CDDA, so it's hard to compare. DCSS is a very goal-driven game: you are supposed to get The Orb of Zot. Get it and you win, fail and you lose. It's not open-world, it's not infinite. You cannot grind (with some minor exceptions). The difficulty curve is carefully managed so the game remains tense all the way through (no building yourself a deathmobile and running over hoards of enemies).

So where does that leave the "depth" of the game? I'd say that your decisions matter more in DCSS than in CDDA, but those decisions are also less... layered? Like, in CDDA you may need to complete ten steps just to build the thing you want, but it's pretty obvious you want to build the thing. In DCSS you may agonize over doing A or B, but actually implementing that decision is a simple button press.

Just wildly different design philosophies.

>>536653553
>>536654543
Biggest difference is you can complete an entire DCSS run in the time it takes you to do a single loot run and grind your knitting skills up in CDDA.
I've spent longer building a car in dda than I have doing a 15 rune.

>>536650730
>I guess that's not happening anytime soon.
More like never, TLG dev threatened to get rid of the ability to add any mods whatsoever if someone ported stats through skills.

>>536656531
that was a reddit rage baiter taking shit out of context
might of even been you lmao

>>536656531
aren't mods in cataclysm just compiled-in? The only way you can port a mod is to fork TLG anyway, so it's not like their threat has any weight.

>>536645313
>>536647901
Alright thanks. So mostly for the height advantage and world map traversal.

>>536657006
>aren't mods in cataclysm just compiled-in?
nah, some can work just by changing the dependency in the modinfo file from [DDA] to [TLG]. Even going swapping between [BN] and [DDA] can work if the mod is simple enough.

>>536619485
It is one of the best games.

Granted, I say that partially based on a version of it which is in the past now, but I've done nothing but grind dcss for about 3 months. Nostalgia isn't enough to cause that.

While they add new things (based) and they have a fucked up definition of "tedium" which they try to remove(less based), that's not the determining factor that decides if you'll enjoy it.

CDDA is a lonely game where you must enjoy standing on a tile highway and thinking of the nearby webbed forest and its hidden fangs while hauling actual garbage in an otherwise empty world and getting slowly buff. DCSS is a game where you juice every limited floor for amazing artifacts and scrolls and exp and potions and become mega powerful and then still get your shit kicked in because nothing stops you from rolling poorly. Your own calmness of mind and power of foresight must overpower the existence of probability. It's your mind and soul wrestling with luck itself, and learning vigilance.

So, those are the feelings. CDDA is a calming "everything will be alright" with a hint of "something may be out to get me." Cdda is a hike in the woods.
DCSS is hitting your personality with a mallet over and over. 10/10

>40 hrs played in DDA, but its only been 2 weeks ingame
I got bored of DDA around 25-30 hrs in and did multiple labs including LIXA, how the hell do people play until winter?

Im playing stoneshard and Im having a blast

>>536653553
the main difference is that dcss is a game which is like rogue

who is this fragile soul that keeps deleting their own posts

>>536659689
You can play CDDA with Megacity settings; it's not going to be so calm and relaxing, at least not until you kill off most of the wandering hordes around your base.
Recently did stable 0.H run with Megacity, 2x zombie pop, and 1% loot abundance - zombies everywhere, and all loot is treasure… except wallets.
For some reason wallets themselves, not their contents, are excluded from 1% loot settings.

>>536666329
the true core gameplay loop of cdda is watching a green bar spin while you waste time in base.

>>535674642 (OP)
I experienced pretty much if not entirely all the Jupiter Hell Classic Demo has to offer. Seems that there are a total of, spoiler ahead btw, 3 area's to be found 1 per the following floors; 2, 3, and 4. More spoilers. Are the toxic archreaver's or whatever they are called supposed to be hard? My only solution so far is grabbing two items at best. One item might be limited to the rocket launcher if I didn't get the item earlier so I can rocket jump away and escape otherwise I die against them. They seem to keep spawning, idk if there is a limit or if they just keep coming. How different is the full game compared to the demo?

Hey Ooe developer man. I know you post here or at least you dropped keys once. You need to fix the display window so that it always shows me what I'm hovering over.

Your game tiles are overlapping the UI space for the windows and the inventory, so the game is telling me that I'm looking at a ground tile. But I'm trying to look at the item. You see the problem? I can't hover over the items I start the game with on the 7, 8, 9 slots because the game doesn't recognize that I'm hovering over an item. Fix this please.

Also, add a "back" button on the character select screen to go back to the main menu, and a "back" button on the loadout screen to go back to the character select screen. Crazy that this isn't already in the game.

>>536677432
You can go back during character creation by pressing backspace, but you're right, there should be a button. Slipped my mind. I also forgot to bind it to ESC as well. As for mouse thing, it's been a thorn in my side for quite a while, but I recently tried to improve it. It seemed like it was better in my tests, but maybe not. It's been surprisingly annoying to actually get it to register as being over UI or not in any case, but I'll take another look at it.

bros the alcohol is making me fat

>Charge based melee fighter
>you have to buy Charge yourself
What's the fucking point, faggots? People pay money for this game? 20 fucking years of development hell, you're shitting me, how the fuck

How am I even supposed to know how to play this game? I keep dying to 20 Snapjaws in a cave under Joppa

>>536693973
>How am I even supposed to know how to play this game?
The same as any other game; play it and learn.
>I keep dying to 20 Snapjaws in a cave under Joppa
Explore the surrounding area before immediately going cave delving. The increased visibility, lack of obstacles and lesser enemy desnity makes it much safer than underground areas. Just don't go too far too early.

>>536695132
I think I'm just getting too fuckin old man. If I die to a blue beetle that has, apparently, at least 50+ health and the only way I could know that I can't take a blue beetle in mortal combat was to have died to the blue beetle I get mad and play something else

(L)ook should tell you more than "Yeah it's a blue beetle alright" man. Armor class, expected damage, something.

Just a skill issue ig, I really can't understand what makes COQ so good.

>>536693973
play a precognition mutant to try things out and learn, duh

>>536693973
You literally start with an Issachar rifle and 96 water, I think you can find a way to kill Snapjaws if you just stay alive. You don't have to go to Red Rock or anywhere underground really at level 1. If you kill snapjaws you can bring items back to sell to the vendor, or you can go to the marsh for easy exp lvl 1-5. Run to the Six Day Stilt for an experience boost and shops when you feel up to it.

>>536697813
this cant save you from overmap traveling yourself somewhere awful, but its a very solid start that makes figuring out how to progress straightforward.

>>536650375
Are EOCs not in TLG?

>>536704458
they are in tlg

>>536668160
why do you think anyone who deletes their own post is one person
are you stupid? do you lack pattern recognition?

Roguelikes about self love?

>>536668160
me, because i didn't fucking read what i was replying too lmao

>>536714089
The virgin "IT'S NOT ONE PERSON!!!1!one"
>>536714165
and the chad "It was me!"

>>536714089
might want to delete this one
>>536714165
lol

>>536714089
>>536714165
fucking lmao

>>536693973
You grind in the surrounding marshes looking for crocodiles, then kite Isakari men in the desert for more XP while praying you don't get spotted by one of the winged snakes roaming in pack, meanwhile collecting books in the ugly ruins to give them at the Six Day Stilt, get through the main quest until you die at Golgotha, repeat with different builds, reach Bethesda Susa, die, repeat with different builds, etc. Have fun

Are we down?

>>536719635
No, it's just you.

>died literally less than 10 tiles away from the entrance to Zot to a poorly timed unlucky high damage roll hitting
>death was completely and utterly avoidable but I was cocky and thought I was untouchable
Fault! So fucking close too, I actually haven't won a game proper in years and this was looking like an almost surefire 3 rune at the very least. This one actually hurt ngl. Oh well on to the next run. Btw what's up with pic related? There's no wiki page on this item, AFAIK there's no way to get it other than wizmode.

I've tried out Enchanter and I think I'm not getting it.
The basic loop is stab sleeping things and instakill them, and if they wake up put them back to sleep and then stab them, and if that doesn't work confuse them and stab them, and if that doesn't work blind everyone and stab them.
But like what am I supposed to do about all the enemies I can't just kill with a dagger? Or what about giant groups?
I got up to lair and was pretty consistently killing any solo monsters, but then the hordes start and I can't knock out 20 elephants, and I also can't just run away from everything constantly or I don't get any exp.
How's this supposed to work?

>>536722409
It's an item from the new (experimental) "Descent Mode".

>>536723036
Hexers need to branch out around Lair/midgame into something else. Pure hex just isn't viable. You either go into summons, a God that gets you through those encounters or gives you allies, more into ranged weapons, evokables, whatever. Other than that, positioning and stairdancing is the name of the game. You need to isolate enemies, stairdance, hit and run, etc.

For enemy groups confusion and tuskimas dance are gonna be your bread and butter

>>536724540
O ye also necromancy isn't a bad branch out for hexes. Both are more geared towards hybrids and it gives you some abilities to increase your options and survivability like drain health for example. My last hex-build spammed vile clutch and ran around kiting to kill everything that couldn't be put to sleep or confused

>>536724540
Hmm, gods seem like the only real consistent way to plan, so in that vein how about Yred/Dith/Kiku/Sif? Dith is kinda doubling down on stealth but at least lets you run away, yred can do auto necromancy so you don't have to, kiku gives you all the necro spells you need and the sign or ruin is pure stab bait, sif just dumps all the spellbooks on you so you can get anything you want.
Am I missing anything, I don't really have any experience using any of the martial gods.

>>536726126
Yred increases stealth, gives an all-in-one necromancer kit.

Dith decreases noise generated, and the shadow can distract enemies to give you low-tier stabs.

Uskayaw can confuse enemies with Line Pass, paralyze with Solo Time, and Pain Bond can spread stab damage to large groups of enemies. Usk is the premier stabbing god, imo.

Hepliaklqana with Hexer can greatly augment your hexing potential, or Knight can give you something tanky to make an escape.

Kiku is fine, but obviously augments the Necro side of the build far more than the hexes/stabbing side.

>>536727572
İ haven't played DCSS since Hepli was added, idk if anything got changed but the Hexer ancestor gets antimagic weapon just as hexes start becoming irrelevant, makes him quite powerful. He's still squashy like battlemage but isn't weak offensively as people might think

>>536727961

Hexes remain relevant until endgame these days, as Enfeeble and Sphinx Sisters are both excellent all the way through Zot. Although you still need *something* to supplement for when you inevitably have to fight more than one target at a time.

>>536727572
No mention of Wu Jian Council? Ability to stab groups, free movement for sleep stabs or retreating, and last power for big fights
Best god for kobolds btw

>>536723036
If you're depending on stab damage, then you're putting levels into stealth. You get extra damage even if you aren't using daggers, but you're using daggers.

Your starting spells are Ensorcelled Hibernation, Confusing Touch, Tukima's Dance, Dazzling Flash

Hibernation allows you to one-shot any vulnerable enemy, but also causes you to put yourself in danger to do it. The ideal fighting loop for this is to get within 2 steps of touching an enemy, cast it, and stab them. If you fail, you are now within 1 step, and must retreat up some stairs instead of attempting to cast it again, since it will fail often and you will want to use it against strong enemies like double ogurs. This process, as described, does not work on fast enemies like acid dragons, and is very time consuming even under ideal conditions. It exists, almost exclusively, to let you force a win against single enemies who would otherwise stop your progress, and isn't actually for general use, though it obviously works better against lower hd and will enemies. With a low spell power and no mult, it becomes unusable quickly.

Confusing touch is far more mana-efficient than hibernation, but requires that you directly punch a threatening opponent, which means you need defense instead of stealth. It is quicker, and doesn't fall off the moment you meet a hydra, but still stops working once enemy scaling really kicks in. You also shouldn't be using it on a hydra the moment you find one, cause it will eventually fail twice and you'll die. Confusing touch, despite being very strong, worsens the worst part of hibernation, which is to say it forces you to make yourself vulnerable, and so requires that you have some other escape method. You'll win many fights just off of landing a single confusion, but it will eventually kill you, because what you're doing is just letting the enemy hit you.

>>536729905
In the past, the simple answer was to be a fast race, like a cat or a spriggan, but AoO hit them on retreat too now, I think, don't quote me on that. So now you need summoning, fordgecraft, earth, air, or translocations sufficient to allow you to escape (which is very little, but still something). I suppose a well placed ice-beast would work. It used to target enemies based on HD instead of will, and so incresed the range of enemies which hexes covered. That advantage is not present any longer.

Tukima's hits enemies with weapons and low will, which is a few strong enemies, and a bunch of middling ones. A ranged tool that weakens a deep elf or a mermaid just seems pretty good, and this seems like a much better answer to a 2xogur than hibernation was. This requires that you're at least strong enough to fight them without their weapon. Again, enchanting requires other stats to help it along.

Dazzling flash, finally, is an AOE ability, and it's primary use is to let your escape. These other tools work for 1v1's, and this lets you turn a 5v1 into a 1v0 so you can retreat and then use tukima's on all of them. It also works on HD instead of will, which means that it lets you beat high-will enemies which you otherwise would be powerless against, or at least blind a weakling in a hallway so they hold back others.

>that's all the spells basically
Hypothetically, imagine a list of every enemy in the game. Remove every enemy you can kill with hibernation. That earns you the exp for tukima's. Now remove every low-will enemy who isn't a threat without their weapon. Assume you gained some skill in a support magic, stealth, and some combat skill. You're still mega-weak, but can clear most threats in early dungeon. Dazzling is now online and you have at least 1 escape spell. For the enemies who you fail to stab, you can always retreat and reset. The hardest spell you know is dazzling, with a power cap of only 50.

>>536730217
You have no reason to spend extreme amounts of exp on hexes, because your spells are already at maximum effectiveness even with middling int.

If the game doesn't give you a better hex, fine. We've all got fists, or daggers at least, and stealth. The game has to give you SOMETHING. If I can do spider4 on the power of swiftness and lvl 3 air, so can you.

Maxed-out dazzling has a 38% chance of affecting a normal draconian in zot, and a 22% chance of affecting a gold dragon. For the most part, you're fine. It's got you covered.

So you just need an answer for that list of enemies who outright don't care about any of your spells. Obvously, your spells won't kill them.

That means
Dazzling doesn't affect extremely high HD, undead, nonliving, plants, eyeless, or extra-sensory enemies. That's enemies with the "unblindable" tag, which I don't think you can directly check for in game.
Tuskima doesn't affect high-will enemies without a weapon, so that covers some of the undead and maybe a few non-living, but mostly doesn't cover the weaknesses of dazzling.
Confusing doesn't affect high-will enemies and is a danger to use, but when given space and proper setup basically solves strong enemies who would otherwise be unkillable.
Hibernation doesn't affect high-will or cold-resistant, which is a lot of enemies later on.

So how much does this cover? Well, there will be some enemies you just can't hex with your options, and those should be noted individually, but lets check a gold dragon again.
it has rC+, 180 will, and no weapon. Confusing touch has max power of 100. The formula for enchantment power is 35 * log2(1 + (100)/35) where that 100 is from spell power, and it = 68.
180-68 = 112, which is greater than 100, meaning that confusing touch can never touch a golden dragon. It CAN hit a quicksilver dragon(140 will), or a strom dragon(100 will), technically, though those were covered by dazzling.

Your spells, at this point, don't cover each other's weaknesses

>>535806516
I am going to, it looks good and felt good in the demo.

>>535910007
If that's true then furry rights are human rights, and I don't think you want that slippery slope to enter Congress.

>>536730416
Ultimately what this comes down to is that you're utterly helpless against the Orb Of Fire and the evil Toe without a spell better than what you started with, and your current will-check spells don't really do anything anymore. Sneak and stab don't cut it. These spells get you all the way to zot as long as you know to walk away from a handfull of enemies, but you have to have built something else by then.

Enfeeble, sphinxes, or discord can do the job if you line everything up right. Yara's can help with enfeeble, as it does significant damage, though not enough to depend on alone. Mana-vipers is good because antimagic is good against the things which are a problem for you. Again works well with yara's against toe and OOF.

All the rest of the spells basically don't cover your weaknesses. Englaciation is, at best, a slow on a bunch of draconians in zot. or a clown. Most things have at least some rC+, though it may be worth slowing the things you can, just because it is an advantage and sets up yaras.

Anguish is good, but doesn't do anything against the dead or the high-will and little against rN+++ .
Cause fear is ok for escape, but tends to surround you in only the strongest remaining enemies later in the game, and doesn't actually help you kill.
Dimensional Bullseye is for ranged units, which is a completely different set of concerns.

Sigil of binding is somewhat of a joke, but can be set ahead of time to let you try using confusing touch without caring about the risks, so long as you always get your enemy onto the sigil before it expires and then leave up some stairs. It may also be the cheapest yara's trigger, if it works on that particular swiftness which it causes.

>so, in answer to the actual question

>>535916158
Try alienRL. Or door in the woods.

>>535955703
Quad does give me the vibe of something larger and not roguelike ish even though it totally still is rogulike. Some rogues are play until you win or die, some maybe save once or twice before you win or die, some you always always save and the play lasts 20 hours and dying makes you sigh hard. Neo scavenger is like that for me.

>>536106148
YOURE a nut

>>536731297
The purpose of hibernation is to let you instawin against adders and gnolls if you are careful at all.

The purpose of confusing touch is to solve your mana-issues and force you to put your nuts on the table so that you use sigil, or mammals, or sprint, or whatever, and also so that you get the hint that you should still be training your physicals.

The purpose of yara's is be more safe than confusing touch at the cost of 1 extra mp. It doesn't solve lair, meaning you need something else for yaks/deathyaks/hydras. It does, however, let you re-engage uniques until they drop their weapon, and probably does work in orc.

Dazzling completely invalidates the rest of your spells against everything alive with eyes. You'll still need to deal with Wargs somehow, probably with hibernation, since they have no weapon +have nose + are buff and fast. This is probably the last real use for hibernation before it stops working.

After you've got dazzling, if the game doesn't give you a better hex, you don't need a better hex. Until you start dealing with liches, orbs, and toes, you can just walk away from whatever this spell and tuskima's doesn't solve.

btw I may have said tuskima's when I mean yara's or vice-versa so keep that in mind. Yara's blows up buffs/debuffs, and tuskima's weakens weapon-users.

>>536732114
How about skills? I'm torn between desperately wanting defensive skills so I don't die horribly, but then dying horribly anyway since I'm made out of glass and weapon skill since it is the only way I have of killing enemies but I kill them anyway dealing fucktons of stab damage with an unenchanted dagger.
Stealth is obviously extremely important but seems very random and I have no idea what each point of it is doing or how many points is worth training
At least the spells have a clear menu telling me my cast chances and spell power so I know exactly what I'm getting out of it.

>>536422698
Well from a considerate honerable point: I play doomrl all the time and am not allowed to pay for it, I can suggest and get friends/family to pay for this easily.
Also it's different n doesn't have doom music.

>>536429575
That would take many years of someones life to develope.

My wife's boyfriend plays dda

>>536732707
Only one way to find out.

By entering d9 I have fighting 3 unarmed 2, dodging 6, stealth 10, spellcasting 4, hexes 12, summoning 5, ice 5
I am a felid with ac 2 ev 21 sh 0 and an amulet of regeneration. I very quickly found summon ice beast and it has been doing work for me. Felids are not fast anymore, so that part doesn't work. I had to summon with red miscast danger, which could have basically killed me on the spot, but as a felid that's not such a problem. It also seems like miscast severity is partially based on max mp, which is low on a felid, so that concern may not exist for other characters. The game gave me every hex spell instantly as a joke, but I can't use them because the point of this is to figure out what stat spread is needed to get through lair given just the normal spells. I had skipped a d3 black bear, because I do not want to be dead, but I will now go back and get it. I have now skipped a d:9 acid dragon because I know better.

I had to pop an invis pop for this d:9 baily, but my little paws aren't strong enough to actually kill the griffins in here, even while invisible. Tuskimus and ice beast cleared the rest.

Cleared d:11,
entering Lair, I have fighting 6 unarmed 6, dodging 10, stealth 13.7, spellcasting 4, hexes 12, summoning 5, ice 5
Ac 2 ev 26 sh 0, regen amulet. That amulet has been doing some work for me, considering how easily I buy time with confusion and a sacrificial summon. My god, by the way, is gozag, so that I can keep all the piety I am not currently allowed to use in the form of gold. It wouldn't be much help if I just took namalex on d:2 and told you how good his cards were. Tusk dance + ice beast is a good combo, in that the ice beast is able to tank the weakened enemies so that the weapons can actually attack. However, I would otherwise be using mana vipers if not for the challenge.

>>536744560

Through L:1, many difficult enemies failed to notice me. There's some death yaks and a catoplease which I'm simply not going to disturb. I'm building 5 fire and 6 spellcasting in the hopes that it makes dazzling flash a little better. Currently 60% spell power. Sacrificed a summon in order to stop a boulder beedle's special attack. I'm not actually able to use dazzling very much, both because it's not full power and because my own summon would be hit by it. Once I am personally strong, that might become less of an issue.

The yaks woke up, and I could be responsable and simply ignore them and leave. Instead I'm testing my hexes. Currently, dazzling has 33% and hiberantion has 1%. However, dazzling max range is 3, meaning that after one failed cast, the enemy is 1 tile away from me. However, if I simply ignore my ice beast, I can cast dazzling, fail, have ice beast directly between me and the enemy, take one step away in which the enemy attacks my summon and my summon moves towards me, and then try casting again. If I run out of mana, I can use a door or a staircase and rest and then keep trying. Unfortunately, blindness is not a deathsentence for the enemy like confusion or sleep, at least until I am physically strong. Currently, I deal 10 damage unarmed and can't use a weapon(cats stab regardless). Confusion has a 10% chance to work, which means you can't reliably apply it while the enemy is blind either.

I fucked around until the death yaks took one of my cat lives. 33% chance of blind is not a viable escape strategy for repeated use. Sacrificing a summon or using a binding sigil is much better. Since I also now know that blind requires more damage to kill, I know there was no need to invest in fire without higher physical skills first.

>>536744696

Entering L:4, I have fighting 7.4 unarmed 7.4, dodging 11.4, stealth 15.1, spellcasting 6, hexes 14, summoning 5, fire 5, ice 5
AC 3, ev 28, sh 0
I have left a clump of komodo, 7H-hydra, and gastronok in a little corner together, because waking any of them up would wake up the others and the escape paths suck. It's a lot of juicy exp, but you get not exp if you die. Simply come back here when stronger. Often, you simply don't have to fight the 8-7 head hydras.

I have also marked a single isolated skyshark and left it alive because skysharks are rancid bullshit.
I am, at this point, strong enough to fight an elephant alone. They have 25% chance to hit me and that gives more than enough time to put them to sleep or retreat if I get hit.

With this small increase in skill, I can now fight single blind death yaks, but two kill me quickly. However, normal yaks are exp baloons, and there's more to come.

Cleared l4 with some difficulty due to a huge swarm of both yak types in the middle of the map, which made it hard to use one staircase to clear out the threat under another staircase. Still, none of that killed me. Everything was slowly cleared including a hydra until there was just a yak and two deathyaks left, and the lesson here is pretty simple. Don't fucking do it. If there's two death yaks, and they are glued together, simply don't fight them.The only way to engage is by wedging yourself into a chokepoint with a summon next to you. While blind is good, it doesn't last long enough to make up for the fact the yak will wander away immediatly, which simply lets the other yak take its place. Drag one of them up a staircase and be done with this nonsense, or die like I did. Remember, cats get extra lives but have tiny hp pool and no equipment. They are also small-bodied, which is why their ev goes up so fast.

>>536745925

Entering L:5, fighting 8.6 unarmed 8.5 dodgeing 12.5 stealth 16.1, spellcasting 6, hexes 14, summoning 5, fire 5, ice 5
On entering, a wyvern dashed onto a dispersal trap, leaving me in the middle of a swarm of elephants and a hydra. Horrific news.
Dazzling blinded 5 out of 6 of them, and I possitioned myself so that the dispersal trap would be triggered again. I was placed near a 2 tile wall to the south, and hid behind it to minimize the number of enemies which had eyes on me so that they would not figure out where I was either now or when blind fell off. The hydra, who had already seen me, forgot where I was for a moment. After dazzling saved me, hybernation took out the enemies which got close, and my summon occupied the tile next to me so that I wouldn't get hit from there. Hibernation was a bit too expensive. I noticed a cane frog was near me, and moved to intentionally let the hydra see me. It approched the 2 tile wall, and I moved so that it would definitly take a step to the south of the wall. I then moved north, and put the cane toad to sleep, effectivly uisng its body to lengthen the wall by 1 tile and seperate me from all the enemies. I then simply ran back up the stairs.

This is how you use your tools together. Confusing and tukimas didn't see any use, and that's fine. If you keep your head, you can make it out of some streight bullshit without us-IDing your scrolls and praying for blink.

And note that this didn't kill me, but fucking around with a pair of death yaks DID. Don't do it. If you can't handle an enemy, don't. If you have to limit-test, know the price is always death, and that's worth it some times.To some degree, dying to the death yaks is how I learned enough about my tools to survive the L:5 dispersal trap.

Found rupert. He was BORN to be LEFT THE FUCK ALONE. If he wakes up, it is basically worth abandoning the rest of L:5, until you have willpower.

I fucked with a frog next to rupert. I'm now going to ork.

>>536746663
Final score, 9.3, 9.3, 13.4, 16.8 and the magic skills are unchanged.

I trust that this has answered your questions on the importance and use of stealth and the distribution of stats, but no it doesn't, because different species have different aptitudes. While 16 magic is cheep for a cat, it's a funny joke on a minotaur.

>>536747149
>While 16 magic is c
16 stealth... don't know how I made that mistake

I have another roguelike idea
I won't work on it thoughbeit
It will die with me

>>536747891
It will then reroll with a better human.

my experiences with Roguelikes so far:
>Jupiter Hell Classic, its very fun but its like, a "quick thirty minutes adventure fun" experience
>Caves of Qud, I have no shame in admitting that I love the setting and worldbuilding, but I can't get into the visuals and combat system, I have lots of trouble "reading" the screen and I'm missing out lots of stuff
>Moonlighter, didnt really click with me
>Dwarf Fortress AM: very fun, quests feel..uhh a little random, I like exploring but the world feels..a little empty, I know this sounds ridicolous when talking about DF I feel like theres still a lot of work to do here, but I can appreciate the vision and scope of this game (I have 600 hours in Fortress mode)
>Stoneshard: now this is podracing. I love the pixel art style, combat and skill progression is solid and fun; exploration is rewarding and I like messing around and taking quests, and the camp progression system got me hooked

>>536757298
It's sad stoneshard won't be finished in my lifetime

>>536098359
Idk if you're still around but so far seems pretty solid

>>536759051
hey man, cheer up
we just got an update, its not all grim and the game can be played even in this beta
yeah Id love custom character creation and shiet

is NEO scavenger a roguelike?

>>536747149
It was a very interesting read and a good primer on how stabbers work. Not even the anon who was asking for help, but someone that once tried to make stabbing work all the way up to 15 runes.
Only got 13 because I was adamant on having to one-shot Antaeus or make the run invalid, but maybe now that Hexes have more tools for the endgame, I'll try it once again.
Your posts gave me renewed faith on that, so thanks.

>>536466132
Same. I remember when Hydras, death yaks, and catobepolas were the "scary" enemies of Lair. Now it's just skysharks. Fucking skysharks have ended more of my recent runs than anything else I think.

Jupiter Hell Classic is expensive for it feeling too early in development, at least that is the feeling the demo gave me. Is the dev just strapped for cash? There's stuff in there missing that gives the feeling of stuff just being strapped together to ship it asap.

I am dead inside but sometimes I randomly get a brief glimpse of what it was like when I still had feelings. Roguelike for me?

>>536764241
CDDA

>>536763942
dude its like 12 bucks

>>536172119
>>536145515
>kill pope
>become head of the church
>unlock members of the church to fight for you
also I stole the pope's armor
shit's fun, I can just sit back while they sacrifice themselves, sometimes they even manage to clear a whole floor before succumbing to their wounds

>>536757298
There are some purist naysayers when it comes to Stoneshard, but I like it. It has some solid ideas behind it. Essentially, it takes the concept of Battle Brothers and tries to reimagine it as a roguelike. Even the lore feels somewhat similar

>>536757298
Next you should try Cataclysm.

>>536766550
And jorking it to torrented JAV is free
I can cum on an ugly chick's chest for like $200 man, what the fuck am I gonna do with 16.6~ copies of DoomRL?

Why doesn't janny ever ban the Asian girl spammer? He's being a jannigger and needs to do his job.

>>536769686
is this your first week on 4chan? Do you not know how things work around here?

Yo, who the fuck tagged that porn game as a traditional roguelike? Also, what's the deal with Cataclysm: TLG? How is it different from Kevin's "muh realism" version?

>>536763942
Just bought it and Jupiter Hell for 12 bucks. I don't think it's expensive at all, but you're correct in saying it feels too barren at the moment.
So you probably could wait until it gtes more updates before getting it and just play DoomRL for free.

I hate ESL mods so goddamn much it's unreal

how's jupiter hell classic compared to DRL?

Thoughts on ancient Cata forks like Era of Decay and There Is Still Hope? They don't look like whatever CDDA is now, with normalfag sounds and loading screen art, aren't as dumbed down as BN and aren't buggy pieces of shit like TrannyLG. I've been playing more EoD recently, and while it doesn't have nifty features like smash until destroyed or jumper cable/extension cord chains, the stability more than makes up for it, and so does the relief of not having to worry about something pivotal to the game being removed in the next experimental because of retarded maintainers. Also dear god it's so much more performant than modern forks, at what point did we lose vehicles moving instantly and having long crafting/sleep done in seconds?

>>536773159
Barebones.
But if you like Jupiter Hell, it's a pretty faitful recreation of it on the DoomRL style. It's basically DoomRL 2, but it feels like some of the builds don't work right out of the bat like in DoomRL. You actually have to invest a shitload of levels in prerequisites or synergies before you can make your Master trait useful in some builds while others can just make it work from the very beginning. It's weird.
There seems to be more problems with ammo shortage in the late levels, and while that used to happen sometimes in DoomRL too, I feel this happens more often in this game. I don't know why they didn't include the ammo supplier terminals at dante 1 like in the original game, that could alleviate slightly that problem, not solve it completely but it was weird to see them not incuded anyway.

In short, you could probably pick it up if you want to play DoomRL 2. I did because I've replayed DRL countless times and wanted another game to try.

>>536775323
Who cares.

>>536770336
>How is it different from Kevin's "muh realism" version?
Worm """girl""", the creator of TLG made it due to constantly clashing with Kevin and his sycophant army of rimmers. They kept removing >her contributions and generally mistreating/ignoring/bullying "her". So "she" made TLG. For design and philosophy differences, Wormgirl has stated that "she" believes DDA doesn't have enough realism.

>>536775805
I care

>>536775323
For me it's pouar's DDA, the real thinking man's cataclysm fork.

>>536775805
Your picrel is exactly why I care, old stables and these ancient forks are like a photograph taken of a time when Cataclysm wasn't degraded to the point it is now. While I have no hope for the future of this game, I've had a lot of fun with it in the past, so playing it as it was in the past is surely the key to keep enjoying it. Better than giving up on the game or developing stockholm syndrome for eldritch condoms and exodii cyberfauci-approved super sex change drugs by continuing to play latest experimentals, at any rate.

>>536776832
King

>found an interesting cataclysm mod
>author put his OC into the game

>>536762671
i fear no shark, but that thing, it terrifies me

>>536762671
drink potion of tree. removes all of your blood so the skysharks can't go berserk, and gives a whackload of AC so the shark multiattack just nibbles at you.

>>536775323
>at what point did we lose vehicles moving instantly and having long crafting/sleep done in seconds
when z-levels became mandatory

>>536422052
what should i be doing with the stock market shit? ive only glanced at it

Currently playing Bright Night with the "sheltered" scenario as a lawyer. The bunker is right next to a town where some tough enemy are roaming (ferals with chainsaw, soldier, predator, etc.), so I'm very cautiously looting the outskirt. I acquired some fur and wool clothing, so my fellette should be safe from cold. The bunker should be a very safe place, but the lack of light is an issue for reading and crafting, and I don't know how I'll deal with the (close) hordes for now.

Any experience with this scenario?

>>536790857
With big hordes close by, it's only a matter of time before a group parks outside your door, so start prepping for them now.

Dig some pits outside your shelter in a cross-hatch pattern, you can lure zeds into falling in, which makes it much easier to kill them. Particularly if you get a reach weapon and dig them so as to leave a gap so you have places to stand and attack the pits, like so:
#_#_#_#
_#_#_#
_______
#_#_#_#
_#_#_#
If you dont have a reach weapon the gap's kinda useless, but it does make your trap field bigger

>>536747149
Made it to crypt 3. Ended with all hexes except jinxbite, anguish, fear, dimensionalBulseye, englaceation, and silence in active use and in statue form, missing a few max hp. Despite having all the resistances I should need, I seemed to be taking chunks of damage from anything that approached me.

Getting the sphinxes active made a wold of difference.
For quite awhile, enfeeblement was all I needed, but in many cases dazzling still had a higher % chance of inflicting blindness, which is required for stab damage.

Mana viper is a beast, just strong as hell, though that depends on spellpower. Ice beast also never really stopped being useful. There were plenty of enemies I wouldn't have beat without its extra damage and tanking. Learning that was a good idea.

While the hexes appear on paper to all share the same weaknesses, there were plenty of occations where disarm+living weapon was great, particularly against ranged units like yaktaurs. Despite having technically better moves, I found myself using hibernation a lot, mostly because my physical stats weren't able to kill blind enemies easily yet. Confusing touch covered a lot of undead/unliving targets.

Discord is a fucking blast. Combined with summons, you can turn your summon into an enemy and then get more summons, but also just walk away while everything is distracted and sack a snake.

I don't know how good yara's is because I didn't need it much. Even against discorded enemies, enfeeblement was better.

Main thing I learned was that statue form doesn't protect you from the damage of bat-clouds from the bloodprince vampire. It's not negative damage and doesn't require you to be living or have blood. It just seems to be irresistable undodgable damage, and I'm not sure if armor does anything either. It only spares the undead, and the prince has dispel undead anyway.

My fucking bad I guess. Use a scroll of poison/fog, dummy.

>>536775728
Barebones? What does DRL have that JHC doesn't? Cause for the moment DRL doesn't have branches and has less interesting traits by the look of the demo at least.

What if Yaldabaoth was just a good dude?

>>536793913
lmao

>>536790857
assuming you're in the LMOE bunker, try switching off all the lamps so the grid can charge up during the day time. then only turn on what you need. work your way to some bolas and stealth around for convenient non-building map extras

>>536784035
Tell me about it
(inb4 tourist)

>>536784035
which mod?

>>536762671
what the hell happened to death yaks man? i swear they used to appear less often and be scarier

>>536793267
It feels barebones in comparison with normal Jupiter Hell, but that's probably because that game has more mechanics that weren't adapted to this game.
And yeah, the game has more traits and more variety on builds. And DRL doesn't have branches.
What DRL has is much quicker progress to your power spike which makes the traits more simple to pick up. And it doesn't have branches, but it has special levels that more or less function the same, give you an immediate reward if you can clear them and by the sheer number of them it's basically the same as having various branches.

So, about traits, I think that one's personal preference for whoever play the games. If you like simplicity, pick trait, trait does the thing, you keep killing, then DRL's system is fine.
If you prefer to theorycraft the perfect minmax build for every challenge, then JHC's system might be better for you.

About branches, I think they're all too samey in JHC at the moment. There's not enough unique rewards to incentivize going from one or the other. You can just enter whatever branch you think your build can clear and go to town, while in normal Jupiter Hell they do reward you with unique effects for your build to start popping off if you pick the correct one. The same can be said about the DRL's special levels.
I think that's the part that feels more unfinished of the game, and the reason I feel it's "barebones". But with some time and development it will probably pick up the pace, so don't let my comments dissuade you on buying it, it's just the opinion of an old man, after all.

>>536801082
Yeah, barebones compared to JH makes sense. But JH is fully released and had eight(?) big updates since then. Pretty sure JHC will get the same care and treatment, JH at EA launch was way worse.

>>536798514
The entire dungeon got way more dangerous with every update, so by the time you see them now, unless you're incredibly underleveled or have been building yourself like ass, you're at their level more or less.

They aren't less scary, you just grew up to their level.

just picked up shiren the wanderer: tower of fortune
never played a mystery dungeon game but read it shares a lot with traditional roguelikes?
general tips?

>>536801569
I think barebones was a bad way to refer to it, so that one's my bad.
"Unfinished" might be the world I was looking for, and of curse it is; it's in Early Access. So with time it will become much better, but for now I still prefer the other 2 games.

>>536802254
Items you find are for you to use, not to hoard. It's not like in normal RPGs where you can keep a stash of Megalixirs forever, so try to use them whenever you feel like you're in particular danger, and not just when you're about to die, but when you see your ass getting surrounded by 3+ enemies that aren't explicitly popcorn or jobbers.

I like elin but I have no clue what the fuck to do and I feel like looking up a guide is cheating.

>>536803517
A guide will only help you get a grasp on the mechanics instead of going around pushing random buttons.
I guess that also has its charm, but if you have an actual goal in mind, it's probably better to know what you're doing.

>>536794487
How do people even play this game? I grew up reading books, have done plenty of writing myself, and even I need several seconds to parse this ultraviolet nonsense. Do the regular players just ignore all the descriptions, or do you just get used to it after a while?

>>536802060
im pretty sure the devs make sure to keep the xp the game awards (nearly) constant across all versions. i remember seeing a test suite for this kind of thing, but I can't find it now

>>536804902
That's genuinely a problem I have with it myself. I only just started putting hours into it lately, I avoided it because it was paid and EA (back when the majority of pack leading roguelikes were free, to boot) for the longest time but I thought that the phrasing was kind of cool, before having to actually parse it to play. Sort of... I mean it really hit the "Dying Earth" Jack Vance and sundry "post-apocalypse, high-tech scrap-world" vibe, right. Has the mysticism and the practicalities all mixed in but... like >>535920852 discusses, it's gotten much much worse.

I don't fucking understand WHY, mind you and I wonder if the devs offered a toggle option how many people would pick one or the other.

I wonder if they read this and they feel a little twinge in their heart, in the pit of the their stomach, if it really makes them proud to ignore it?
I'm a CHUD, I just don't get it, I guess.

>>536806019
>I mean it really hit the "Dying Earth" Jack Vance
I dunno about how the rest of it is or was, but that image in >>536794487 reads like Jack Vance's retarded no-talent nephew who got dropped on his head a lot. There's a vast gulf between his beautiful, imaginative prose and that autistic dictionary-clipping collage of confused nonsense.

I dreamt of working in a nuclear factory and embarrassed myself in front of the lady instructor.
What are some nuclear meltdown roguelike?

>>536792762
Wanted to try an Enchanter on the trunk version of the game, but they removed Dazzling Light and replaced with something called Goom I haven't tried yet, and Enfeeble lost antimagic and in exchange their spells do less damage instead.
Were Hexes getting too powerful or why the nerf?

>>536804902
>reading flavor text
ISHYGDDT

>>536811730
Never mind; seems like Gloom functions exactly the same as Dazzling Light, just changing from Fire to Necromancy.
Still, the Enfeeble nerf sound rough.

>>536811730

enfeeble changed was because the antimagic debuff on enfeeble was actually a different debuff than the one on weapons, with different logic for it's duration/effect.

antimagic on weapons is a stacking debuff: the more you apply it, the longer it lasts. and the longer it has left, the more likely it is to cause spell failure.

antimagic on (old) enfeeble didn't stack, and would roll a random duration on each application. if you applied enfeeble-antimagic to an enemy that already had it, longer durations would overwrite shorter ones. in practice this meant that sometimes you would low-roll and end up with super weak enfeebles, but had no way to know that you low-rolled until that Orb of Fire hit you with 3 fireballs in a row.

so they changed enfeeble to be more consistent and understandable (at the cost of making its top-end power worse)

>>536812901
Once you go into Hexes you kinda accept you're high rolling for your life with each spell you cast since almost all of them are binary yes/no with low chances of hitting, but I somewhat understand the change.
Guess now it's about tanking the hits instead of making them not happen at all. Time to lowroll on damage taken now.

I often wonder if all this die rolling is actually a good thing. Like if you removed all the randomness from the mechanics and had all damage/cast/resist stuff be 100% deterministic, would it really be a bad thing? Or would it just let you plan you actions more and cut out bullshit?
Obviously you'd have to replace the rolls with something else , I'd guess stacks/bars would be a decent replacement. Like willpower is now just the number of stacks you need for an effect to trigger, and spellpower gives you more stacks per cast. So a high willpower enemy, instead of having a 10% chance of being affected, now requires 10 stacks of debuffs before a guaranteed hit. Likewise with dodge and armor, they just become secondary small hp bars that absorb hits before you main hp is affected.

>>536815510
you might like Rift Wizard (1 or 2). There is still some randomness, but its probably the most deterministic RL I've played

>>536815510
Also the giant formulas for all the skills is ridiculous, it should all be renormalized to linear effects. I'm pretty sure that if you fucked around with the numbers enough you could get basically identical performance to right now but without having to have an entire essay long explanation of how scaling works.

>>536816247
the crackhead nonlinear piecewise functions go all the way back to Linley, and the devs are afraid to touch them lest they awaken the Old Ones

>>536815510
Yeah, Rift Wizard is closest there, probably.
The only other non-random combat that comes to mind is like... the Berserk mini-roguelike, or Hyperrogue. Maybe You Only Live Once? idk. Once you take out the random combat to make it just a... Tactics puzzle, I think you lose a lot of players in a niche genre (and you make balance harder/design more tedious, since now you have to make something "solveable" without the fuzziness)

>>536804098
YDBTG

>>536816661
You're not taking out all the randomness at all, just the unimportant bits. Like you've still got random levels, enemies, items, etc...
If there's a high enough strategic headroom people WILL find enough shit to piece together a win.
Really most games are deterministioc in effect anyway. By the law of large numbers every game has about average luck and all your failures and successed average out into a pretty unshakable ratio. So aside from the moments you get extremely lucky or unlucky and wind up dying all the dice rolls are doing is hassling you.

>>536816247
>>536816603
The formulas for everything in DCSS are so convoluted for no real reason I can only believe a methhead came up with them.

>>536815510
>>536564667

>>536817026
...Ok
Play Battlemage (on Itch IO)

What are some BN mods that add new mutation lines? Does magic nights add dragon mutations like the dda magic mod?

I did it, bros.
I got the cheevo.

>>536827843
This was scary as fuck, even if hypothetically making no mistakes would mean I wasn't ever in any real danger.
because usually I do make mistakes

Something's wrong with this run.
I keep getting like triple the regular enemy density.
The game is out to get me.

Figured it out.
And even got some treatises out of it.

>>536827986
What is the game loop in stoneshard like?
Is there fixed amount of contents you go through or is it meandering amount of survival/crafting stuff?

>>536830536
There is a quest chain that takes you to different towns and gives you stuff to do that's not just dungeon delving or overworld exploration for points of interest.
All towns (I've been to) also have a few local quests - some are just fetch stuff, but some could be their on mini-stories.
After you've finished the two main quests, you're given a caravan to manage, which is just a quick travel system + a bunch of QoL and passive upgrades you can build.
You also get to recruit up to three companions, so there are short quests for each of them as well.

A playthrough is roughly balanced around clearing all local contracts once (so three dungeons) > doing local non-fetch quests > moving to the next town.
Then it slows down a bit and you'll be revisiting prior town, buying gear, trading valuables, etc.
At any point you can (and probably should) explore the overworld, for hunting or gathering stuff.
They are also added caves and mines recently, that function like non-contract dungeons.

I dunno if there's a story continuation after you visit the capital - I keep fucking dying every single time, but there was still stuff going on even when I got to level 15+ and was doing contracts for the third hub.

It has this ADOM problem, where there's a somewhat specific sequence you go through every time you start the game which can make it feel repetitive.
But to the game's credit, it feels pretty varied right now. And also you don't really have to play on permadeath.

>>536829576
>>536830161
>5(Five) years of early access

>>536836757
First roguelike?

>>536838551
it just scares me, but I'll probably get it next sale

>>536839575
I wouldn't expect 1.0 for a few more years desu, albeit the development did pick up the pace lately.
But I personally got my money's worth out of the game.

it has been 5 years and all screenshots of Stoneshard are still one of these 3
>dying to a troll
>dying to a bear
>dying to the same catacomb with the same skeletons and zombies

>>536841253
anon's screenshots are killing the bear, what now, chud?

>>536841253
Last times I died were:
>Ghosts
>Rockeaters
>A bear
>Quest brigands
>A gulon
>A boar
>A huge pack of wolves
>A boar
>A boar
>Deathstingers
>A boar
>A boar
>A bear
>A boar
>A boar
>An ambush of brigands from like 4 years ago
>A boar
>A boar

Roughly.

>>536792691
>>536794398
Thank you. Pits and traps are a good idea, and I need a ranged weapon asap. I didn't see any light to switch on or off, but the fridge seems to be turned on

>>536842418
Which version off cdda is this?

>>536804902
>How do people even play this game?
I don't. I started to cultivate an irrational dislike for this game the last few months. Because of my own experience with the stable release that I waited for years, and probably because of the overwhelming positive reception despite what the game actually delivers. I shouldn't care that much for a damp squib but CoQ is the soul-like Minecraft of the rogue-like genre.

The writing is not the worst offender to me but It's often needlessly cryptic and confusing. Like they forgot it was a permadeath rogue-like game with a very heavy focus on combat, not an experimental novella. Should have toned down that to something "just" evocative and foreign enough.

>>536845252
Bright Night v0.6.0

>>536809923
Cataclysm dark days ahead

>>536804902
Not a lot of people read books or write, so this amateurish slop is what passes for good writing in their mind.

>>536806019
well the devteam is now mostly morons nowadays

you should play old qud sometimes
it was a fun game if extremely barebones, it showed promise
they abandoned it for years and made sproggiwood, a terrible game for the mobile audience
that is the same devteam that gave us nu-qud and it rims major donkey butthole

it's kind of a cataclysm vs dda situation
it's best to just move on

there's currently a bug on DCSS trunk where quickblades do infinite damage

get your free wins quick before they fix it

Which RogaLika has the best lore?

>>536860097
Cataclysm Dark Dicks Ahead

>>536861484
How much black dicks can I take in CDDA if I max out my orifice skills? Is it still 12?

bumpu

Combine draining dag + poison dag +
the barest minimum method of escape and crumb of defense
and suddenly those death yaks which are such a problem stop being a problem at all.

>>536854465
They suck though. The only real benefit is not getting shafted since you have dig. Other than that they just take a beatdown the whole game.

>>536811730
>Goom
ebin :-DD

man, Stoneshard is hard for wizards
any tips?

>>536879519
A modest investment in necro gives you reasonable dispell undead access, which covers most of the weaknesses of dazzle. The only threats left are unlivings like wyrmhole and OoF.

Meanwhile, the fire investment currently buys a hexer... a weak fireball? Nothing here seems worth using. Maybe sicky flame is good for low skill?

>so, oof and wyrm
wyrmhole is inf-will and has rSticky. While it can be weakened, it's a hard fight even weakened and alone, and resists everything but poison and can't be fought safely on an uncleared floor. I would say to throw curare, but their ev is 22, so unskilled curare probably doesn't work well. If you've got a poison attack, about 19 turns of full poison would kill them, which isn't bad but isn't great.

Anyone got an answer for this enemy or is it just "have fuckloads of damage by the time you hit depths 4"?

>>536804902
I don't read much. Most stuff is pushed as great quality by a bunch of literal who's and big news outlets; what size are their noses?

Caves of Qud is definitely different than usualf on purpose but it is readable and gives the game it's own flair. At least when I played years back, I heard the game had changes like with the black fabric thing so idk how much was changed. Tbh you just sound like one of those Oxford dictionary kinda guys who gets tripped up by the smallest non grammatically correct sentence eg I use a word not officially recognized as word like irregardless or simply forgetting a single word a long sentence despite the thought being obvious.
Put an "in" between "a long" in the previous sentence.

TLDR Caves of Qud is readable you just seem hard stuck on a certain formatting and have difficulty parsing anything outside of it.

>>536882371
>and resists everything but poison
Aren't they immune to poison? Or did they try to nerf them already. I just abandon depths when one appears, you can usually escape just with haste using tele scrolls to cancel the hostile tele.

>>536888958
> I don't read much.

We can tell.

>>536889551
>offended
Kek

>>536861819
Depends which branch you're playing.
>kevins
14 (he based it off realism, he tested it himself)
>worm g(uy)irl
20 (same as kevin but xer included the fake axe wound)

>>536842304
...Why the FUCK do you keep fighting boars??
Stop own faulting asshole

>>536888958
"I don't read because da juice ruined it all"
Blatant cope, you don't read because your shit's all fucked up and retarded.
Even a child should understand that if you don't like what's hyped by a particular popular outlet you can trivially go looking for more interesting literature yourself. It's fuckin obvious you don't even have an idea of scope
>"most stuff" is pushed by
What's "most stuff" here my guy? Most stuff you hear about? Comes from the slop outlets? Because that's all you passively absorb? No shit. What are you doing in this thread, this is a thinking man's thread, the NTR general is a dozen boards over and three threads down, bud. Casuul, reee, post your wins or gtfo

>>536804098
Nope, just rawdogging this game. I don't care. I will just do random shit and see what happens.

Am I supposed to be using the heavy brand if it spawns early game? I guess it makes sense in the endgame when you can hit the min delay and punch through high AC targets but early game it feels like a death trap and if I get it from a branding scroll I just drop the weapon like with Chaos

>>536914689
heavy brand is a trap early unless you get it on a really good randart

>>536914689
Nah, it's just trash.

>>536914304
When I was a kid they played horrid "Muzak" which nobody liked. It was like being on hold, but IRL

>>536827986
You juked with leg sweep ?

>>536918006
Did they play that devo album?