Thread 537187696

Previous thread: >>535674642 Featured game by thumbnail: Cogmind
You faggots let the thread die edition

>Are mystery dungeon games allowed in this thread?
Generally yes, most mystery dungeon games(Shiren the Wanderer, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Etrian Mystery Dungeon, etc.) can be considered roguelikes too
>Is Elin/Elona allowed?
Yes, they are roguelikes
>Is Dwarf Fortress allowed?
If it's adventure mode, yes, that could be considered a roguelike, the same can't be said about its other modes though
>FAQ
https://l.idrix.fr/J7sOv
>What to Play
https://l.idrix.fr/eYNOh
>Individual Game Pastas
https://l.idrix.fr/wXd8t
>Roguelike Archive (Collection of pretty much every free roguelike there is)
https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z
>/rlg/'s "official" Cataclysm: DDA fork
https://github.com/cataclysmbnteam/Cataclysm-BN/releases


>News
21 Aug 2025 - ROGUE-FP v3.6.1
17 Aug 2025 - BOSS v3.3.2 released
17 Aug 2025 - Steam Sky 11.0.4 released
16 Aug 2025 - Shadowed: the Demon Castle of Ooe v1.0 Full release released
11 Aug 2025 - Overworld v2.5.3 released
9 Aug 2025 - ROGUE-FP v3.6 Steam gog
6 Aug 2025 - HyperRogue 13.1 released
6 Aug 2025 - Coop Catacombs 1.7 released
3 Aug 2025 - Piki Rogue Build 94 released
2 Aug 2025 - Zorbus r61.16 Steam Homepage Changes
1 Aug 2025 - Wizard School Dropout Preview 6 "It's a Curse" released
29 July 2025 - Crablike v1.0.9 released


>/rlg/'s shared DCSS online account
User: rlgrobin
Password: ownfault (or "robin" on Xtahua)

Roguelike Servers
https://angband.live/ (Angband and variants)

>>537159523
Energy vs no energy is pretty straightforward.

The typical no-energy basic turn system is:
You take an action > the next monster in the list takes an action > the next monster in the list takes an action > ... > until no more monsters are left- You then are free to consider your next action at your leisure, as your next "Turn" has arrived.
The game can simulate all the monsters actions near instantaneously, of course, which leads to the turn-based feel we have today- You take a step, all monsters take a step or attack or whatever they do almost "simultaneously"
The action the monster takes CAN be "take two steps" or "attack twice" or they might "wait" every other time they have a turn or "do nothing, clear stunned" but each entity's turn is resolved sequentially. The order maybe be based on which monster first entered view or some arbitrary other (Dexterity, alphabetic, whatever) but the list is depopulated and the turn is the player's agin.

Energy systems shake out in one of two ways, but work the same:
The game runs a loop- If no player/monster has (arbitrarily) 100 energy, it increments a Time counter and adds 1 energy to EVERY player/monster. If there IS a player/monster with 100 energy, that entity can take their turn. Any ties, entities with 100 energy at the same time, can be resolved as above- Appearance order, Dexterity, alphabetic, etc). Once they take their turn, they lose 100 energy and the loop continues, incrementing the Time counter.

The way that this differs from the no-energy system is either in that different entities gain Energy at different rates (2 per Time, 1 every other Time, based on a stat like Dexterity, etc) OR that different actions will subtract different amounts of Energy other than 100- Walking may take only 50, and so you can act in 50 more units. An attack may take 200, and you pay off the negative debt, letting other creatures get a "free" move in between your next action.

Various stats and effects can add complexity

>>537159523
>Can you cover this energy and no energy system in more detail. Aren't they both basically the same or am I missing something?
Original Rogue had "atomic turns" in the sense that a turn is a turn, there's no such thing as a half-turn, quarter-turn, etc.
In a sense, Rogue was a true turn-based game, like any other, it's just its turns happen to be one-step-long for everyone.

Later roguelikes, however, has expanded on that system with the introduction of "Speed" and "Energy".
All actions take some amount of energy, you can only take an action if you have enough of it, and speed is used to regenerate said energy.
The idea is to allow for actions that take different amount of in-game time, as well as entities that move at different speeds.

The technical implementation is basically the game processing the usual "full length" turns the players see and interact with via much shorter internal turns, or "ticks" for simplicity.
For instance, in ADOM the default energy cost of taking a step is 1000, and the default speed is 100 - for most players that's the closest thing they'll experience to a canonical "turn" in ADOM.
So, for the default speed of 100, it will take 10 ticks to generate enough energy for a single step.

The game can then manipulate both the speed and the energy cost.
For example, if a creature has 120 speed, they'll be able to reliably take a step every 9 turns with some overflow, averaging to 25 ticks required to make 3 steps, i.e. they'd move 20% quicker than usual.
Conversely, the cost doesn't have to be specifically 1000 - if you level your Ranger to 40, their movement cost will be reduced to 750, so even with 100 speed a level 40 ranger would move faster than a regular creature with 120 speed.
It allows for in-game actions happen at varied paces instead of rigid "turns", creating more gameplay variety and an improved sense of character "growth".

>>537192562
It's worth noting, that in most cases (at least in all cases I know of) internally, all actions are actually instant and simply have an allocated energy "cost".
Then there's an energy threshold that allows a creature to take their turn.
For example, in ADOM, you'd need 1000 energy to act. You can then do something that'd cost 2000 energy, go down to -1000 and essentially spend two "turns" recovering.
But that's more of a design decision for better UX. Technically speaking, nothing prevents the system from handling "startup" times for various actions.
It'd just feel like ass to swing your sword at an enemy and die before the hit lands, as there's no way of actually inferring that from the UI of most roguelikes, especially if we're speaking ASCII.

>>537071190
>>537073938
the smooth simultaneous movement makes it looks more like rtwp with pause at fixed points, something like Enter The Chronosphere or Toribash
in traditional energy system roguelikes the actions are instant, there is no delay between for example initiating sword swing and hitting the opponent, thus no real controllable counters or dodges etc.

>>537192562
>>537190169
You can also imagine it as the equivalent system of a priority queue.
Everyone decides what they want to do, then they're put into a queue sorted by when those actions will take place. One at a time the soonest action gets taken, that actor decides on their next action, and it gets put on the queue.
This is actually exactly the system that realtime games use, with the only distinction that the game only renders a single frame after each of the player's actions, and automatically pauses to let them make their choice. If you just had the system advance by one tick per frame automatically it converts all energy based roguelikes directly into realtime games.

>>537193315
It depends, actually.
Most melee attacks are indeed instant, but some games do handle travel time for projectiles.
ToME4 in particular expects you to manually dodge projectiles quite a bit.

>>537193364
I figure the (general) lack of startup cost/instantaneous execution is the biggest differentiator here, then.
Something like uh...
Ah.
Something like Y.our O.nly M.ove I.s Hustle (see also, Yomi) is probably the best way to highlight the difference.
The ability to "react" to incoming actions is typically reserved for telegraphed attacks/abilities that have to "charge" up.

I just realized you can make custom sprites.

>>537198254
still somehow better than the base ToME sprites

>>537158381
warden would probably be better for this. baka cringe desu

>>537187696 (OP)
>Cogmind
I've had this on my backlog for a good while. Is it fun?
I like the theme.

>>537206493
Yeah, this game cums.
Great onboarding process, fantastic in-game guide. Intuitive system, lot of customization and cool systems to learn.

100% belongs in Top 5 roguelikes, if you're making a list.

>Great onboarding process, fantastic in-game guide. Intuitive system, lot of customization and cool systems to learn.
These are all lies btw, Cogmind expect you to read up guides outside the game because everything that you try to do by yourself will fail.
Oh you picked up a gun and shot something like the game instructed? Rookie mistake, the game doesn't want you to fight people.
Oh you picked up a part? Too bad it doesn't work unless you look up what that part is supposed to work with.

>>537207206
I'm moving it up my backlog then. Looking forward to it.

Played DRL. What's with the sudden difficulty spike after Phobo's? Also what's with the "knowing how enemies are programmed" to cheese the system a requirement? It ruins the immersion if I need to know that stuff. Is Jupiter Hell Classic different compared to this?

>>537208570
Enemy AI in JHC is mostly much the same as in DRL and the entire los/ballistics cheese is left exactly the same, just with more random see-through crates that obstruct bullets but can be wiggled around by manually aiming over enemies.

>>537207431
You genuinely let your ownfault tilt and filter you
This isn't even the first suggestion since the start of the manual that you shouldn't fight everything and instead focus on going downstairs once you've got some area-appropriate loot.

Idk what part you picked up that had you utterly flabbergasted but I'm willing to bet you did something stupid like installing a flight booster while your only prop method is big fuckoff tank treads, given your enlightened and well reasoned opinion so far.

>>537209772
:( the first area's difficulty is fine but when I saw a vid on what to do at the Wall it just put me off. Makes it feel like the design is made in mind with the player cheesing the mechanic's rather than being straightforward.

>>537208570
The dev seems to really enjoy some particular burden of knowledge type design mechanics

To them, "having to abuse a gimmick till it's tedious" is just a regular gimmick, playa

>>537210440
The more you read up on internal workings of the engine and the development history the more you realize the entire game is one very elaborate inside joke taken way way too far.
It's one of my favourite games ever but it's really more of a schizo puzzle that merely pretends to be a tactical simulation.

>>537208570
>Also what's with the "knowing how enemies are programmed" to cheese the system a requirement?
You don't need any of that on HMP or lower.
But if you want to go higher, you generally do need to understand the mechanics.

I think it's fine, because it adds depth to the game if anything.
Corner-shooting and gift dropping are just realities of DoomRL, and you either balance the game around them or not.
If you don't, the game becomes trivial for everyone who interacts with those mechanics.
Everything else you can figure out by playing the game yourself.

DoomRL is honestly great.
I don't particularly like N!, but UV is very fun.

>>537187696 (OP)
Let it stay dead next time. There's nothing here but ghosts and sad old men.

>>537209964
>Idk what part you picked up that had you utterly flabbergasted but I'm willing to bet you did something stupid like installing a flight booster while your only prop method is big fuckoff tank treads, given your enlightened and well reasoned opinion so far.
>start with ad homiem
>tell other person to give enlightened and well reasoned opinion

>>537213351
I didn't start with ad hominem
I actually replied to your trogthink and baseless bitchmoaning with ad hominem

You called me a liar, faggot, where the fuck was all this civility two posts ago when you was typin shit about me?

>>537212180
Nah, I think I'll stick around.
If it dies again, I'm taking the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and DF Adventure mode shit out.
Also, we're gonna become an FTL/Void War thread if you fucks don't straighten up.

You try to talk to a Cogmindfag. First thing he does, like in the game, is to put his brain inside his inventory so it can't get damaged. Then the second thing he does is to turn tail and run away from the conversation because combat is intrinsically anti-Cogmind (in fact if he replies to this post, he outs himself as a shill). Then he starts citing things like how he doesn't do things unnecessarily, because that's what the game taught him to do, then piss in a bottle to reduce unnecessary trips to the bathroom.

>>537214228
Utterly baffled that you could show up, call me a liar, refuse the evidence of your own eyes that the game has a robust manual advising against the EXACT pitfall you complained that the game didn't teach you about.

And then you call me a jugpisser and cry out that I'm a shill if I don't let you shit on everything.

Truly they're only sending their best to the rl gen

>The manual has a paragraph that says "part of this game is a trap, but we implemented it anyway"
Brilliant Chinaman, god bless the CCP

>>537215316
Ok anon, you don't have to keep pretending. We all know you're not retarded enough to think that just because a game has a mechanic you should always maximally engage with that mechanic.
You gluttonous fuck

Cogmindfags be like
>b-b-b-but it's a stealth game
Cogmind is inherently an anti-stealth game. In every other stealth game in existence you are encouraged to engage with the combat and make stealth takedowns or kills and balance it with sneaking around.
In Cogmind thanks to the brilliant level wide alarm, combat is a stupid trap.
>b-b-but you are not supposed to interact with a mechanic
Then don't put it in the game retard chink.

>drivers manual tells you you have to stop at stop signs
>but the FUCKING GOVERNMENT keeps making stop signs ANYWAY

>comparing inaction (stopping) to action (shooting)
Crazy how retarded Cogmindfags are

this used to be a nice thread

The thing is this level of stupidity is only achievable in Cogmind. You don't see it in Infra Arcana because Infra Arcana is a real game made by a person with a brain and not some malnourished CCP rice farmer.

>>537215946
The mechanic you're choosing to engage or not engage with isn't "combat" btw it's "Get the fuck out of Dodge when you bring too much heat down on yourself"

Bet you hate the police in other video games, too, criminal scum.

>>537216138
Post your runs then. I would but I switched to Cogmind instead of IA and I don't wanna hear Coghater bitch about that too

Cogmindshill so retarded he tried to shift blame to Infra Arcana but I one upped him first.
This isn't about IA dumb nigga Cogmind is just a dogshit game.

>>537216069
Stopping is an action.
Avoiding combat is an action.

or
stopping is inaction
not fighting is inaction

pick one

cogmind is a great game, but it isn't a roguelike

cogmind is dogshit and that makes it roguelike

>try out cata last generation
>segfaults on world gen
Cool game bro

>>537216870
Go on. Elaborate.
What retarded malicious interpretation of roguelike are you using to try to rustle my jimmies?

>>537217294
cogmind isn't like rogue

>>537215946
The dev is Chinese?

>>537218261
i think he’s a white guy who lives in korea

>>537218737
You don't know that he's white. He could be black.

More like Cockmind elmaoooo

>>537217716
Ok, Cogmind is a Broguelike.
Next question.

>>537219262
you can see what he looks like here: https://youtu.be/9yJflbg0V38?si=E39RgSDNnnxfxMwh

I'm in your area
Area 51

Fuck fuck fuck fuck please cmon please fuck

>>537217040
>download week old version
>still crashes
>build it myself
>compile error
>figure out that localize=0 option won't compile
No other roguelike seems to be as much of a pain as cataclysm, any of the versions, really. Takes forever to build as well, just to spite you more.

>>537229583
My shit is so cooked, I'm not escaping Samsara this time

The creator of Cataclysm is Whales.

>>537231138
Unsalvageable dogshit run, gg no re

What the FUCK, Caves of Qud?
Who starts a run like that?
I just pressed New Game, what the hell?

>>537235725
Oh come on

>>537235725
You have GOT to be fucking kidding me

>>537236024
Every starting NPC in Joppa except for the Warden, Argyve, the Mechanimist and the Dromad Merchant are dead.

I guess I'm missing out on the one quest but... I have an entire village to loot, mostly consequence free.

How should I best abuse, oh mighty sages?

>>537210440
>made in mind with the player cheesing the mechanic's rather than being straightforward
that's accurate to DOOM then!

I don't get these complaints. There are legitimately nonsense strategies in games which are based around exploiting AI. You can, for instance, cause an AI got get stuck in a loop by toggling what equipment your characters are wearing. You can force a pokemon to use a move which doesn't do anything due to type-matching. These kinds of things reveal that the AI isn't actually a reasonable creature making reasonable decisions based on the information available. There's no part of the handy equipment menu which was ever meant to allow you to preform free micro-stuns by causing the enemy to re-target. It's neither realistic or mechancially interesting.

but then their's your dumb asses

>durr when you shoot around corner that's cheese

>when you notice that AI like to pick up thing and then use it as bait, that's NOT IMMERSIVE

like, swallow a quark or something

>their's your dumb asses
Stopped reading there.
You're 100% black redditor.

>>537236292
I really doubt there is enough worth looting that it justifies losing early NPCs. I would restart.

I know it's a decade old meme, but they removed Ghouls in crawl for their oc dont steal revenant species. I just want to play a generic undead not have some spell gimmick.

>>537245621
>DCSS devs removed
Must be a day ending in "Y"

>>537245621
Revenant is just Ghoul with power creep and LGBT fairy dust anyway. The aptitudes are all the same as Ghoul. The gimmick magic is just free extra power.

DCSS devs are such pieces of shit 2bh.
Deliberately ruined a perfectly sounds game.
The only silver lining is that it's still possible to find the older non-shit versions of the game.

>>537249957
recently heard passwall would instakill you if it got interrupted originally
maybe some changes were good

What roguelikes have the most depth and detail?

Nethack, CDDA, Caves of Qud... what else?

>>537245621
sorry, best i can do is mummy

>no changes to heavy brand in dcss trunk
I guess there's value in having a dead brand in the pool.

>>537252003
Please help and answer please.

>>537252003
Elin/Elona+

>>537252003
>Nethack
If NetHack applies then so does ADOM.

>>537252003
obviously rogue itself, it encompasses all genres and all possible gameplay elements, such that you can correctly say that every other game is "like" rogue

>>537256673
>>537258280
I almost added Elin and ADOM to the list. But yes, I've already played those.

I don't like ADOM, though. I'm a Nethack person.

>>537258349
VR Chat is my favorite roguelike.

>>537258421
ToME has a lot of detail in a very different fashion.
Angband forks are comparatively surface-level but they do feel similarly to NetHack-likes IMO.
I played Frog after decade+ of not touching ASCII and I liked it quite a bit.

>no roguelike with emacs keybinding
>no roguelike that can be embedded in an emacs editor so that an aspiring author can play it in between sessions of writing goon fictions

>>537252003
IVAN

>>537214228
You try to talk to a ToMEfag, but all of his skills are on cooldown for the last schizo he dealt with.
You try to talk to a Cataclysmer, but they haven't found the book that teaches rhetoric yet, and he drives on.
You try to talk to a Chudcaver, but their cacophonous ramble thrums gently with gossamer notes of pretension.

>Became a white draconian
>Find 2 ice magic manuals in an ice cave
Now watch that nigger Veh not give me Absolute Zero again

>>537261147
In this house we aim to win the matches where we don't get lucky, and consider the rest free.

>>537260969
correct answer

>>537263039
dunno why people cared about this after the "modal" bit, obviously a retard gathering

>>537263948
People are stupid.

>>537249649
gay is ok
nothing makes my dick softer, faster, than "powerful and speshul becos gay"
it's the lamest fuckin thing

>>537243820
Aight, I won't bother then.
Is it really that great? I figure I can't get Harvest from water ritual- Or learn Apple Matz, grab a follower and... Learn secrets?
Is completing the quest/getting bandages off the Elder's son really that great? I've never actually finished the quest- I got BTFO trying in my first attempts a long time ago and heard it's something to aim for later on

>>537211127
Yeah I think I'm out on buying Jupiter Hell Classic then. I'm not interested in that. None of the other roguelikes have this design on purpose or at least as far as I know. In most roguelikes this gains you a benefit by taking advantage of a flaw or limitation but here it just feels like a purposeful design meant to be taken advantage of.

>>537276274
Most roguelikes try to move AWAY from the Nethack/*band era of scribbling magic words on tiles and abusing uniques (like nurses) and polymorphing garbage piles or playing with dropped items

>>537219262
Kek

>>537249957
What versions are fun? Even when I played long ago the dumb smoke dissipates if you cant see it mechanic sucked
>cast freezing cloud
>ohh you cant see the other end of the frrezing cloud because its too thick?
>let me just dissipate it faster to not let you have fun because hey you could take advantage of this by casting freezimg cloud cloud and shut doors to lock enemies in!

>>537261132
Kek

>>537276274
Dunno what others are talking about but the guy explicitly stated that one of the major goals for EA of JHC is mechanical transparency. He already added explicit tohit values that werent in DRL.

>>537275647
The quests are kinda the entire point of doing Joppa start instead of a random village start. I don't really like starting Joppa because the rust well quest is annoying af, but Mehmet's quest rewards are useful consumables. Plus Mehmet sends you to Red Rock which you want to clear anyway for some equipment that is guaranteed to spawn there. I won't spoil you on it, but the equipment comes along with a short note to read, so you'll know when you find it. Even if you do a random village start, you would still want to clear Red Rock before level 10.

If you're struggling on Red Rock then try going to the Six Day Stilt first. You'll get XP just from going there, and Fire Breath, Acid Gas, etc. are all easy mutations to buy for ~10 drams. If you have a ranged weapon and some decent food Red Rock is not that hard.

>>537278798
In DoomRL certain things require indepth knowledge of how the game was coded to have a fair chance of winning. It's similar to speedrunners making use of flaws in the codebase of a game. Difference being one is intentional, the other is not. In this case the devs of DoomRL assume you will take advantage of this. They treat it as the base state of what's required to play this game, rather than a flaw that gets taken advantage of for an added benefit. That's where this game fails. Idk if that is the case woth Jupiter Hell Classic but I'd rather not take my chances on it.

>>537229837
>run it in debugger
>discover that's it actually running out of memory due to an infinite loop
No idea what that line was supposed to do, but commenting it out makes the game actually able to create a world. Hopefully it doesn't explode later.

>>537279330
>because the rust well quest is annoying af
How so? NTA but I like starting at Joppa though that might just be because I played it long ago and enjoy starting there for nostalgia or something, maybe just autism?

>>537261132
You try to talk to an Elingrinder, but the wiki doesn't have this conversation so they can't reply.

>>537281547
It's just tedious fighting 100 qudzu in a row and getting your shit rusted.

>>537282584
Should've been born a flightchad, better luck next life

>>537279659
The whole point of JH was removing all of that jank, so it's really stupid to say the devs like it that way. They're also removing it from DRL/JHC slowly - radar shooting was nerfed a full version ago, now this version nerfed gift dropping and added an enrage timer that kills all "mass wait in corner" strategies. Corner-shooting apparently is getting proper cover indicators next version.

>>537245621
They just really hate "vanilla" species for whatever reason. Just like how Ogre became Ogre with tiny horns and a very niche free attack when chugging healing potions. And how you can't just have a plain jane centaur, it needs to be a special armadillo-centaur hybrid thing.

>>537261132
>>537282485
You try to talk to a Dungeoncrawler, but talking has been removed in trunk

>>537276937
To be quite to be honest, this has always been my major gripe with DCSS.
"X was too effective so we buttfucked it"
Like doing anything but fishing for branch-enabling resists isn't allowed, any tactic that lets you improve your gameplay strategy beyond The Vision™ gets kneecapped.
Some real MiBe only, no items, Zot Destination faggot shit

>cleared aircraft carrier in DDA
They really did just add infinite of literally everything in a single location. Theres nothing unique in the carrier, no unique enemies or rooms or loot. Couldn't they have made it into a dungeon like transcoast logistics with a boss at the end, maybe make part of the carrier sunken and have crazy shit in that part. Any amount of creativity other spamming basic soldier zombies and having
[55 ammo cans > 41 5.56 ammo boxes > 20 5.56x45mm NATO] (45k total ammo from 1 of the like 6-7 armories)

>>537290449
DDA hasn't been worth playing in 3 years.

>>537289893
Reminds me how the troon devs are offended by the suggestion that bat form shouldn't silence you, because "then people will use it to kite enemies." It's apparently supposed to be an escape tool and you're NOT allowed to use it in any other way.

Or the stegosaurus egg that only hatches with enemies in sight because otherwise people will hatch it before going into dangerous areas.

Or the attacks of opportunity that have to exist because pillar dancing against D1 gnolls and D3 ogres was abusive.

Or the talismans that need 5 turns to deactivate because otherwise people will deactivate their forms with negative poison resist when they see monsters with poison damage.

Or the new Zot 5 design that infinitely spawns monsters because otherwise people will carefully clear the monsters one by one instead of bumrushing it.

Got my second JHC win finally

After many failed attempts at Gun Kata got disappointed in it and left it as last pick but it could probably work fine early in this run
Tactical set with phaseshift boots on top got me to 0,46s move time
9mm once again proved its superiority for pistol calibers, only trumped by some uniques
Void is as silly as ever
Harbinger was bullied into a far corner of his altar with zero resistance

Funny how in addition to Void this seed also spawned Avalanche, Firestorm and CRI blaster - a complete set of no-ammo guns iirc

>>537293025
Fucking ganking pillar dancing, of all things, was insane to me. There's no way that was an experienced roguelike player's opinion, you can't... Sure, you made people "stop running in circles around pillars" and maybe you think that's le hecking dumb and not ebin

But it fucking collaterals something like a half of all higher order position based tactics and now you get scuffed to fuck trying to position enemies advantageously. Now that every enemy has a magical danger zone... It feels like trying to turn DCSS into a tab targeting MMO, where the grid is just a convention they're trying to work around and not a part of the game.

Fuckin talismans just made me throw my hands up in the air and give up when I came back to it and in all honesty the most I'm willing to engage with them is "Yeah this got added as wish fulfillment for some furry"

>>537294231
I wish you could more reliably fish for ammoless weapons to feed Gun Kata with, for me it feels like ammo is impossible to manage otherwise

>>537299306
One big problem with JHC Gun Kata is how when you door-dance it shoots from tiles that are behind cover, NOT from ones that have you and enemy in direct line of fire from each other, and the half-broken implementation of targeting lines means you shoot at the wall half the time. That's probably how you lose all your ammo. Otherwise pistols are very ammo-efficient.
Gun Kata now is strictly for big open areas, never attempt dancing cover to cover with it and you will have more than enough ammo.
But then you will inevitably end up with no ammo in your gun and more visible enemies than you are comfortable with, because you do not get DRLs free reloads.
Honestly idk if Gun Kata even has a viable use on regular maps that are anything but conveniently long halls with sparse columns.
Especially if you try Gun Kata asap before maxing all of accuracy, reload speed and speed/dodge.

this general would benefit a lot from having a list of games people new to the genre should try before asking questions, there's like 20 different recommendations in op

>>537303464
Well?
Make a list then.

>>537187696 (OP)
So far really liking the tight focus of cogmind.
I like the sound (the fact that it factors in proximity is neat)
I like the art, especially the detail of the animations.
I like how the tile set doesn't try to depict realistic figures (e.g. what tome does with humanoids)
I like how there is no xp making fighting secondary to the primary goal of going up, instead of fighting being a required step in going up

I dislike how the first 4 levels are just shitty "pick your load out" in disguise tedium. As in, if the game had a simple, pick your "class" and load out screen at the start and put you on lvl 5 it would be more enjoyable on resets. But I guess part of the problem is that I need to gitgud so I don't see resets as often.

>>537308771
Any negative effects associated with just sitting around to give my analyzers to their work on the map? Other than a lower final score that is.

>>537309794
I have my answer, a little cunt comes in to tattle on me.
Gave me flashbacks of playing SS13 and killing someone in some hidden away closet and a random clown walks in and just goes "uuuhh" standing there for a couple of seconds before walking back out again screaming over coms.

>>537293432
You've had all game to prepare, surely you're you can handle a boss with 1(one) mechanic, right anon?

>>537310173
how fucked am I?

>>537308771
I should play some cogmind to check out the new stuff
You should try a stealth/hacking build at some point, to read the lore and discovering the hacking commands is always useful for future runs

>>537215946
You can dominate a main floor to the point that the complex gives up and tries to burn you out because multiple waves of assault squads broke against you. More typically you can simply fight stuff as you find it and use multiple methods to reduce alert in between fights. Heavy combat isn't always easy but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.

>>537311378
apparently I am still ok

>>537312638
I came across a data jack, but it seems like the cost on slots is hard to justify this early on?

>>537308771
>I dislike how the first 4 levels are just shitty "pick your load out" in disguise tedium.
Most of the items in Materials are trash to tide you over until Factory. It's never too late to pivot when you find something better.
>>537311378
>adv emp blaster
You're fine. EMP could set off the alarm traps but if it gets the crowd under control it's fine.

fuck ye, thought I was a gonner for sure, but made it to the next floor.

>>537313383
Datajack is for robot hacking and really dedicated stuff, I meant basic terminal hacking. When you eventually find your way into the derelict base the npcs will teach you the basics for hacking machines

>>537314154
>see stairs
>use it
>end up in a cave
>ohno.jpg
>"beast" appears
ya, goodnight inventory.

>>537313383
One thing to note is that your lil fella is a tough cookie.
You can survive pretty long as just a core, especially given how it impacts your speed- Your core is actually fairly tanky.

Ducking into a room to break line of sight and install some more parts is also usually pretty safe. Even if you're just slapping on a flight module so you can fly past robots in corridors (make sure to offline your melee), it's pretty quick to install stuff.

Breaking line of sight is really strong and, of course, if you get handy with the terminals you can always try recalling investigations/assaults too.

>>537317271
>kill the beast
>walk into corridor
>hidden door
>opens as I walk by and discover it
>"surprise motherfucker"
whoever said combat wasn't part of this game or a mechanic meant to interact with has clearly not played this game.

>>537317759
oh, using terminals like that is good to know, so far been dodging the fights I can, but in this cave system I am kinda pushed into a corner.

>>537318204
welp, had to attach some hover units and ditch my storage unit (along with its contents) to get to an acceptable mass and then legged it (or hovered it). On the next floor now, but still in the cave.

>>537319728
the gift that keeps on giving

>>537321062
How strong is the cannon to the south? Strong enough to break walls? You might be able to dig an alternate path and avoid him, though a dig longer than 3 tiles risks cave-in when you walk through it.

>>537321062
seismic detector saving my robo skin here letting me track the beast (really am in no position to fight it with only 5 spare parts to my name).

>>537321251
all those parts are discarded broken/corrupted parts.

>>537293025
it's hard to believe the shitto "fight started, now afk for 3 turns" spells like egg and bee and blazeheart are in the same as something as sick as gell's gavotte

>>537245621
I was really annoyed when they changed transmutations. Come on, man — a wizard turning into a dragon is a D&D classic!

>>537252003
It depends on what you mean by depth and detail.

Tome4 has a lot of combat depth. You’ve got 20 or more skills to use for attacks or buffs, and three pages of stats to keep in mind when deciding how to engage.

Nethack excels in system interactions. You’re constantly surprised by emergent mechanics — like discovering that setting a wooden wand on fire destroys it and releases all 20 fireballs.

CDDA (Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead) has depth in its survival mechanics rather than its roguelike aspects. To stay alive, you can craft all kinds of things out of all kinds of materials.

CoQ (Caves of Qud) sits somewhere in the middle. It offers cool interactions, like permanent body-swapping, and the combat is somewhat interesting. It does a lot of things decently, but doesn’t push any single aspect to the extreme.

>>537324917
CDDA suffers horribly from lack of purpose or incentives. No, it doesnt need a dopamine dripfeed of achievements and goals, but it could do with something more than "survive". Doesn't help the world and its lore really arent that interesting, so you can't even set any self imposed goals that aren't somehow tied, again, to the goal "survive".
It also misses overarching world mechanics like factions (no, a handful of barely interactive NPCs in a hub a faction does not make).
And all of that wouldn't even be bad, if the one goal, survival, was even moderately hard, but it isn't. What is hard is learning the mechanics, after that it is just another menu crafterlooter like any other.

>>537318362
Once you've escaped from the bowels of the beast, you should give terminals a try, yeah.
They all have different "visible" hacks per different terminal (and once you know a type of query you can make you can do (z) Manual Command to force it, at a penalty) and when you fail you'll START a trace that locks out the terminal and generates some alert- You can just cut your losses and cheese it scot-free before that though.

>>537318204
The fucking melee bots are the no1 cause of my late early game rails. They just fuck me up, fuck up my parts, stop me from dumping AoE into other bots, and bypass my largely ranger centric utilities. They are also fastasfucbois, so you are only running from them on hover/fly platforms.

>>537327230
The transition to goal oriented progression game- Get food, a base, win over NPC factions, make individual locations actually difficult to loot and worthwhile once you do, make the player establish some kind of viable farm and base, chase some MacGuffin or break into some facility to hit the OFF switch

Fuck, that takes a singular purpose and vision. Not seventeen cats in a sack wrestling over which color dildo to add next.

Making incremental updates to the granularity of the simulation is easy
Picking and sticking to a specific direction for the gameplay is hard

>>537327230
This is why I could never get into cdda. I play it, learn soms mechanics, build a base and then I'm just like "and now what?". Ya I can expand my base, but to what end? No trade, no population to take care of, keeping zombies out becomes trivial. It's like building a base and surviving a full year IS the goal, and everything after is like remaining seated in the cinema when the credits roll, or the kojimbo jeep ride.

I keep on dying while playing stoneshard, all my spells damage me wtf

Hey demon castle of ooe dev if you're reading this could you add a back button to the equipment purchase screen after you select a class? It's a minor thing but sometimes I change my mind on the class I want to play and a back button would be more convenient than closing and reopening the game.

>>537331670
did you try backspace? >>536683956

>>537331872
Ah that does it, thanks!

>The elin thread is in /jp/
>despite /rlg/ being pretty slow

why is dis? did someone have a tuna melty and scare off all the eliners

>>537332543
The elona/elin thread has been in /jp/ since the dawn of time.

>>537332543
Origin is because back in there day there was no real english translation, then when there was an english translation it was pretty terrible for the longest time. So it, like touhou, stayed in /jp/

Is Sil the "tightest" RL? As in, no fluff, no nonsense, no dumb useless mechanics, no "what do I even do?", no reading books to level up

>>537327230
I've said it before, DDA needs more serious evolution timers. If you stay long enough in one area it should keep getting worse and worse exponentially. Not just zombies evolving, but more zombies, portal storms dumping more fucked up shit, slime pits, fungus, werewolves, nuclear winter, acid rain, solar storms, whatever, constant base assaults.
It should be stay in one place and build a fortress, or move from place to place constantly on the run from bad shit.
Lets you put a few simple easy to implement end goals too. Like for example have each of the finales permanently end their associated issue. Close the portal, no more portal storms, exterminate the fungus, no more fungus, etc... Make a quick setpiece for each type and have it control the entire region. If you take out everything you can play farming simulator now, you won.
Alternatively just let you join all the factions, just like you can effectively join the fungus and mutant factions already, and have them take over a region.

You can avoid the performance fucking too if you just simulate the factions abstractly and only spawn random hordes that don't exist unless you're looking at them and not ten billion fungus particles.

I've been trying out human fighter of okawaru, and I've faulted like 10 times now but somehow I just don't die ever. Is this normal?
Like I'll get into a bad situation, surrounded, elites with wands, slowed, red health, etc... and instead of just running away or burning resources I just activate haste and heroism and kill everything then regen from single digit hp.
Usually even with max caution and expending all my resources I die instantly the first time I make a mistake, this feels weird.

I want roguelike mechanics (topdown, turns with turntime actions) but with an RPG coating (story, geography, lire).
The genre is over 3 decades old and we haven't really ventured beyond "go down levels to fetch prize", I want more.

>>537335363
I'm working on that
It's tough thoughbeit

>>537335363
CoQ has that. It's shit and pretentious, but there is a main story questline.

>>537335363
Been asking for Zelda X Roguelike for years. I'd do it myself if I were any good at coding.

>>537335069
Okawaru is pretty strong. You can easily stat check every monster in the game with double attack speed, but you can still die to disabling effects, torment, or attrition.

Compare that to Trog who has built in willpower and regen, but his berserk is obviously inferior to double attack speed, and you can see the tradeoffs. Lotta gods will straight up carry you in this game, and most gods give you plenty of piety to use their abilities. It's such a powerful part of your character that often you can fill up XP recharging abilities/items with god abilities, and then fill up god piety with those XP recharging abilities/items in a never ending loop. This is how team LGBT intends for you to play the game.

>>537335487
I disliked CoQ story, because it was essentially just loredumps locked bevind quest progressions. I didn't feel my actions were a driving force. I just did whatever the quest required me to do, and as a reward soms NPC or item or locale would become accesible and I would get a bunch of text dumped on my screen.

When it comes to narrative, RLs could do with a lot of improvent.

>>537335069
seems about right. hasted fightermans hit hard and jank dcss consumables are jank and hard to use well.

>>537335363
Underrail 2 seems to do energy system turns

>>537327230
They (or was it Kevin) still using the excuse about NPC's being too complex to program or was that fanboy's claiming it?

>>537334285
Sil wasn't even the tightest RL of 2012, bro.
Try Sil-Q if you want more of the same

huh that;s a weird spawn for herbalist hut

>>537263948
too many trolls declaring that vim is a roguelike

>>537263948
What modal bit

>>537335363
Cogmind is the only rl I played that does it in a decent way imo

The One Piece roguelike (which is real) made in BYOND engine will have a strong narrative.

>>537346287
>The One Piece roguelike is real
sure grandpa, let's get you to bed

>>537339821
what's roughly the difference between Sil and Sil-Q again?

>>537348057
It's the "-Q".

>>537330165
guys my bad
I realized I completely fucked up my character build, I 'respecd" and now everything with the right abilities and skills it feels less unfair
arcanist goes brrrr

>>537335363
Stoneshard does that a little if your're into fantasy and medieval stuff

>>537335363
>you know what would be a great addition to your focused procedural strategy game genre?
>a bunch of shitty ass lore dumps and fetch quests
Go away Kevin.

>>537351351
>focused procedural strategy game genre
This isn't the Civilization general

>>537349134
I think I understand.

>Sil-Q download is 7 MB
>Look inside
>Compiler needed to build Sil-Q is 3 GB

>>537351351
I really fucking wish the fucking dumbass fucking TOME 4 devs would write like just ten more fucking quests we've been on TOME 4 for like TEN FUCKING YEARS holy shit dude no amount of

You
You guys are so fucking LAZY holy SHIT, how fucking hard is it to build a mission module you lazy CUNTS you've got fuckin one and a third campaigns and like four sidequests, no I don't give a SHIT about your dumb potion quest anymore give me like FOUR MORE JUST LIKE IT already GOD DAMMIT

>>537357416
>game doesn't even have that many quests
>one of the them (potion) literally features randomly unsolvable choices because it's based on random drop

So the condenser vane is good. It makes acid and damage.

If there's a big collection of enemies, you can use this to place damage near all of them. In order to keep that damage active, you can't retreat afterwords, or your clouds disappear. Using this item, you can hold your ground against a very strong and large group of enemies.

However, if you're able to hold your own against the damaged swarm, then you probably could have retreated and dragged a small number of enemies with you and beat those.

So, while the vane lets you feel really powerful, isn't there no real difference between using it to clear the enemies, and just clearing the enemies one-by-one? If you didn't have the vane, wouldn't you still be able to clear the same enemies without using consumables? IT seems like the absence of the vane would make not difference, if used in this way.

>>537357982
These fucks keep looking for modern "skill expression" to add to the game. It "trivializes" encounters, so it has to go.

It's not clear what the skills ARE, if they're not "understanding the items and mechanics" and "using them to their fullest extent" but it IS clear that if something "trivializes" an encounter then it's NOT skill-based expression, right?

This is how you get Dragon Age Veilguard gameplay, mark my words: Where the buttons you're pressing don't matter and the build isn't important, so long as you ARE pressing buttons and you do have your points assigned.

Roguelikes should be thought about and puzzled through, not locked onto the rails depending on your race/god.

You know what?
Just for that I'm downloading Trunk rn

>>537360171
...What the fuck are parchments are you shitting me?

Should've stayed on 0.24

>>537355642
wtf

am bout to play infra arcana for the first time
any tips?

>>537360009
I'm failing to see the connection between
"something's odd about the condenser vane and I might be misusing it" and
"designers keep dragging games towards autobattle"

Not sure why you said all that.

Are you accusing them of getting rid of the condenser vane by nerfing it or something?

vshitter incel = rlg
successful man = roguelite player

>>537364619
cosplayer = me

>>537245621
>leave /rlg/ for 9 years
>see it in catalog
>decide to have a look
>DCSS still has things left to remove
I'm shocked.

>>537362149
He's saying that their point of balance for all strategies/tactics is the neutral point AKA doing nothing.
If using an item is objectively superior to not using it, then it's rebalanced until they're equivalent.
Hence the condenser vane has been "perfectly balanced" to not affect gameplay in any serious way compared to just normal tactics.

>>537366434
A bit more understandable.

Seems a bit like nonsense.
Like, ambrosia. Is it balanced around the neutral point? No, right? Because it's better in some situations compared to others, and a small number of situations have ambrosia as massively better than doing nothing.

>>537366991
The balancing has not yet been completed.
In the future these recklessly overpowered "consumables" will be rebalanced to cause mutation and contamination effects so every choice to use them is a gamble. Perhaps all potions will be merged into a single perfectly efficient item which just randomly selects an effect each time it's used.

>>537367214
Namalex cards are massively better than doing nothing. A single "any potion" action would also be massively better than doing nothing, but just as difficult to use as old namalex cards, or xom actions.

Anyway, if we admit that ambrosia is better than inaction when used correctly, then the difference between ambrosia being worse than nothing and better than nothing is the choice of the player on when to use it.

If that is the case, then it is implied that the same can be true for the condenser vane. Perhaps the correct use of the condenser vane is 1v1s, for instance, though that doesn't seem right due to its randomness.

That's what I was after, was talk about how to force the vane to actually be useful.
>"What is the use case?"

>>537367692
Specifically? The condensor is still really powerful.
It's a good panic button for when you can't run away and have to stand and fight.
It's a wall against other clouds.
It functions kinda like walls for many creatures, trapping them and helping you run away.
It even works in kill holes, not as powerful but still useful.

If you think about it in reverse there's really not that many scenarios you wouldn't want to be using it, and the only reason you don't is either you don't have it, it's out of charge, or you're trying to save it for later.

>>537357982
you may be planning to take a nice controlled engagement, but drac shifters and malevolent forces often have other plans

love me vane, love me root wand, 'ate running, 'ate zerking

>>537360959
Tonehack on YouTube
Don't kill everything, there is no xp
Exception is cultists for their loot

>play cdda
>expect fall out
>get fall out 4 with NPCs and locations removed and its worst feature, base building, left in
Well that was disappointing

>>537351351
?
Take a game like Zelda
Give it turns
Make dungeons deeper, harder and possibly procedurally generated, keep big reward at end of each dungeon
Keep NPCs
Keep overarching narrative
No need for loredumps

Stuff like this can be done, it's just that it is a ton of effort for a genre that doesn't sell. CoQ is probably one of the few RLs with a pricetag that is moderately well known, and it's hardly massive money.

holy shit cutting it close, pretty sure I am done for now though, no parts left.

>>537376627
anyone have any smart ideas, I believe I am literally fried. Fuck these little unhittable system corrupting cunts

>>537377381
AAAAH WHY IS THIS A DEADEND

>>537334629
>DDA needs more serious evolution timers.

I disagree.

>>537377554
I'm sorry anon
I hope you find a weapon very very soon so you can equip your armor and make your last stand

>>537377554
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3jCAyPai2Y

>>537378110
Actually pretty amazed how long you lasted after >>537319728, I don't think I have ever recovered from having to ditch my inventory

is this good, is this bad? I have no idea, this was my first real run at this since playing this guy's prototype 7DRL years and years ago.

Fun though, one of the most polished roguelikes I have played, it actually feels like a game rather than a project or work in progress.

Is maidensnow the only good H Roguelike out there?

>>537382026
>H roguelike

Roguelikers are all asexual trannies so I can't see H-likes being popular.

Did I ever mention that Void is fucking ridiculous?
Just blind scanned the map beyond LOS, clockwise or counterclockwise, until everything was voided.
Seems to be unpopular opinion, Sharpshooter feels stronger than other pistol masteries, with more freedom to pick an extra trait and control in combat.

Anyway, Tech win came way faster than expected, but feels hollow for being carried hard by the same gun again.

>>537382163
That's only the western players thoughever

>>537387865
1 abymsal dogshit please, and randomly generate it.

Don't worry /rlg/ my roguelike will be a success
Just pray for my soul

my open world survival crafting roguelike with rape mechanics is almost complete.

>>537393942
If it has no graphics, I'm not playing

I'm finally losing my virginity guys. Wish me luck.

How do I use the Bright Nights .aab to make an .apk? If I have to use google play store or anything Google related I'm dropping this fork.

>>537349214
Any tips for a magic run?

>>537395616
what roguelike doesnt have graphics

>>537238528
the problem is when combat degenerates from something fun into something boring once you start playing optimally

>>537393942
If it has graphics, I'm not playing

>>537335416
Same. How far along are you

>>537407331
For now I'm not doing anything crazy: I never played the game before, I'm a lvl 6 chilling in Osbrook.
Got the first three Arcanist perks, the "Battle Trance" one and "Step aside!".
My strategy so far is telport and confuse them while staying still and waiting for the enemy, then whack them with my staff.
Will probably invest future skills in Survial and one Arcane Magistry seal

I tried to go Pyromancer/Arcanist/Dual daggers, and it was fun but enemies mopped the floor with me, so I died a lot and figured dipping in other stuff is not really the way to go, at least in these early levels
now the game feels more fun and I kinda feel "powerful"

>>537400798
>I'm finally losing my virginity guys.
don't come back

>>537360959
To pile on to "don't fight everything" it's important to remember that nearly every non-cultist enemy will forget about you in a few turns once you're out of sight. Also, they've got deliberately inefficient pathfinding often, so even if you think they'll stay hot on your heels half their turns are devoted to Wait or Walk Random or Retreat 1 type shit.

Rat things barely care about you even when you are sighted, but will swarm in numbers.
Invisible undead will (more or less) give up on you if you move even just a few tiles away
Walking dead will reanimate once, unless you destroy their corpse via kicking (read your items, Hatchets and other items will make this much easier), in addition to being big fuck off noisy tanks.
Snakes are evasive in melee and some variants spit blinding poison from range.
And lastly, wolves- Wolves are the harbingers of death. If you reveal an entire pack, you probably need to just shut the door. They're fast, high damage and will gleefully surround you. If you can't immediately step through a door or into a one tile wide hallway then you need to start blowing resources a turn ago- Darkbolt, fire your revolver off, STRONGLY consider a scroll or molotov.

Oh... and keep your gun out, cutter. Anything you want to save ammo on, you can take your time pulling out that hatchet. Cultist rounds the corner, you put a bullet tween his eyes before he says IA, got it?

>>537407331
Respect enemies that can mult strike you. My 7lvl Pyromancer died to double daggers bandit. He took me from 55 to 0. I assumed i can finish him in meele because he was at like 10% hp. I've missed my staff multi strike and he deleted me.

>>537357982
>>537367692
there are a lot of spots where taking the giant brawl, and at least clearing most of it on the first round, is the safest option.
are you gonna one-by-one a rape gang waiting just inside a branch entrance/grouped stairs? you're courting death every time you reenter.

>>537427391
this, a 100 times this
I said I feel "confident" now, but that's about my character's potential when it comes to killing enemies
in reality, a couple bandits can screw my day with ease, and wolves are still the most terrifying creatures

Don't worry /rlg/ my roguelike will begin a roguelike renaissance. It will cost 34.99 btw and sell 1 million copies before the roguelike renaissance begins.

>>537335363
maybe i'll work on it, maybe not seeing as a couple other guys started making something like it. anyways im making something else in the mean time and i can say for a fact i hate coding proc gen.

>>537357416
Isn't it just one dude and isn't it open source for whatever reason?

>>537442812
Indeed, good sir. Roguelike renaissance. . .i do declare . . indeeeed

*sigh*.....idiots......

>>537444940
It's also a little itty bitty bit monetized so I feel super fuckin entitled about it.

>>537444940
It is one dude and at least 2 trannies contributing
Kinda crazy

>>537465610
>and at least 2 trannies contributing
what? they're not about to ruin ToME are they?

>>537468948
The guy who makes the majority of the game is pretty committed to whatever tolkien-like vision he has, so no, but he lets them contribute code and run his discord.
That said, idk if it's going to get any update.

>>537187696 (OP)
>You faggots let the thread die
not our fault if this general is already fucking dead for years, you dimwit

>>537472090
It's okay, you just gotta savescum,

>>537472960
>savescum
why do they get so butthurt about this? it's like the CoQ dev making it harder to have fun with precog. not like he can stop me from making use of it by backing up the game from several map tiles away to get around his little anti fun design.

>>537474902
It does deflate the stakes and tension when you can always just jump back to a previous save, so I understand folks who want to communicate the gameplay value of trying to avoid doing it.
. But when a game's buggy I will back up my save, and if I die to the cat stepping on my keyboard or something, I will happily savescum and feel no regret. And getting mad at other people doing it is silly, unless they are actively encouraging other people to do it as if not doing it is wrong or dumb.

>>537475660
Save scumming usually isn't a problem in CoQ because you can literally just choose whether you want permadeath or not. This is the right way to do it IMO, because the people who actually want permadeath will hold themselves to it without a bunch of restrictions being coded into the game.

But in some other games, especially outside the roguelike genre, save scumming becomes a problem in a few situations. Either the dev designs the game's probabilities in such a way that save scumming is far and away the best way to see the content, or the game itself teaches players to save scum by giving them unpredictable game overs
("I don't know if this is going to kill me, so I'm going to save before I choose that option" was a common thing I said to myself in Disco Elysium for instance). A well-designed game shouldn't even tempt the players to save scum, but it's admittedly quite hard to design a game so perfectly that it never comes up. If the game doesn't completely negate the idea of save scumming, it should at least try not to tempt the players to do it, for instance by giving them other ways to deal with randomness.

>>537474902
you can toggle on save options in the settings for qud including quicksave/quickload hotkeys. Precog and sphynx salt are just more fun ways of making you work for it

>>537474902
Wait, precog got nerfed? How so?
All I know is that the lil gay wristband tugs on your dick (who cares, lmao, that's more flavor than anything) by spawning spatial vortexes and that the +attribute cooking has a literally hardcoded progression track for if it works or not (turbo gay but not a crime, I guess)
What am I missing?

super cool Faction
I wonder then who's 6th and last bigwig

roguelikes with this mechanic?
https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxW13Gex5OcP270aRMANp_NHwHL_SocoSZ

brb food

>>537187696 (OP)
What the fuck happened to the dwarf fortress general? Also, how is adventure mode these days?

>>537499712
/vg/ is the gacha board now. Dwarf Fortress general is on /vst/.

>>537500625
When the fuck did that happen?

>>537501124
When they refused to make a gacha board. Lots of generals got pushed out. /rlg/ is on the chopping block next.

>>537502163
Fault.

dead general

is making a roguelike even possible? people talk about it but i never see screenshots past the "@ walks around an empty room" stage.

>>537516989
There were several playable roguelikes pasted here in the past.

>>537517402
w-what happened to them?

>>537524428
They were created for 7 day game events and the link to those events aren't in the OP anymore.
One of those was mine and I still work on it but due to large changes in direction I haven't posted any update

Forget everything, last generation has performance 10x better than dda, that's crazy

Roguelike like Cultist Simulator or Sultan's Game?

Rouglike that's like rogue?

>>537524428
No money = why work on it? Pay up /rlg/don't you want roguelikes? What, you're not willing to pay up? Then keep playing your decade old roguelikes.
>CoQ
Intially free, now $29.99
>ToME
Free except for DLC and for the fact so many people just love giving away their money, $19.96. Maybe less if you get the free version and then buy DLC.
>Dwarf Fortress
Free unless you want those graphics, $29.99
>CDDA
Not one, but two different versions both of which are not controlled by the original creator of the game. $19.99 and $5.99 both available for free though.
>Jupiter Hell Classic
An updated version of DRL but it costs $14.99.
>Cogmind
Was it ever free? Now this is another pricey one, $24.99.
>Quasimorph
And yet another pricey one, $19.99.

>>537538923
Jupiter Hell Classic sucks ass, I don't regret paying money for Jupiter Hell or Cogmind though.

...Quasimorph was bait, I liked my first couple runs before I realized I had to play empire maker.

I'm never going to pay money for those first 4, kill yourself.
3/7, gimme more roguelikes wagecuck

>>537207206 >>537216231
I am blind as a bat then - I bought the game but damn it is so TINY.

is Infra Arcana worth my time? I've already got a crazy backlog of games like the rest of us, but the setting of Infra sure sounds neat

>>537294231
how are you liking JH Classic? how is it different from DoomRL?

>>537538923
tlg on steam is controlled by the main dev of tlg
even if kevin himself were to put DDA to steam, he wouldn’t be the original creator of cataclysm

>>537542253
>how are you liking JH Classic? how is it different from DoomRL?
Less fun imo.
I don't like how progression for both player and enemies is slower. Feels like repeating same level over and over, then getting insignificant power up once moving to next act to grind its one level another 6 times, and again, and again.

>>537538923
>Pay up /rlg/
No.

>>537540996
>Quasimorph was bait
I read it was a stock market simulator on here. Plus Sseth, despite clearly upselling it, said stuff that made it obvious that it isn't fun. Oh wow I have to overthink every move or I die? Nah no thanks.

>>537378452
Making it to mid-factory is a good milestone.
>get filtered by factory for a while
>get filtered by research for a while
>get filtered by access for a while
>win
Check out the ends of cave branches (go all the way west on the second caves map instead of taking the exit close to the start) for a lot of possible information and rewards, but of course you do need to be geared up going in to survive the whole trip from and to the complex.

>>537469309
When was the last update? I only vaguely recall him making some paid content free to play. Has the game even changed much since ~2015 if you don't pay up for the DLC?

>>537542253
Try uh
Try making it not tiny

Also, IA is super worth, despite me shitting the thread up bitching about it.
It's not terribly complex and runs either go well or they go bad. You won't spend time scrounging for specific items to conquer a branch or looking for answers to a tough monster like the hack/bands.

You're either going down or you're dead.
Like pouring river water in your shoes. It's quick, it's easy and it's free.

>>537538923
Bright Nights is still free

>>537554426
Ok? They’re all free

>>537542253
JHC is much cleaner than DRL's jank and seems to be even more heading that direction. Lotsa stuff added that DRL didn't have. It is a bit slower but the traits are getting more interesting then -1 to speed +1 damage, and each class has more of its own identity. Too bad the nostalgia factor isn't there, but after a while that doesn't matter much.

>>537542862
I guess nobody remembers Whales

(I mean, I do. I even sent him a couple patches)

>Glaive of the guard; one of the only reasons to use a 2H weapon; gets nerfed twice.
>The demon trident unrand is untouched and still completely ignores a mechanic designed to balance polearms for "flavor" reasons.
>Last version adds a new 1H polearm type that is both top-tier and way too common.
>All of this is only looking at polearms.
>Trunk adds a bunch of new orbs, aka another reason to not play two-handed.
For supposedly being balancefags, DCSS devs are allergic to buffing two-handed weapons. Crab talisman doesn't count. I have not seen a single run in my entire life that uses that shit.

>>537236024
>Tell off-color joke
>Warden destroys your entire village

>>537564106
Two hand only exists so you know what you're NOT getting because you have to sacrifice your offhand to some garbage.
Two handing isn't average or well-rounded or "drawbacks" anon
It's just specializing in a thing and doing good at that thing. There's no eternal equilibrium with 2-handers

>>537564106
partisan is a real head scratcher

>>537554393
I take it back, just died to two invisible SOMETHINGS with zero warning. Single turned, from 16 hp on level 3. IA sucks never play it reeee

>>537567108
No need to wonder how strong the Wardens are, yeah. Just watching that maniac no diff an entire village was...
Well, enlightening.
Not that it's hard to find something I can't kill. Apparently that first slumberling was a fluke because the second one ran across the screen through suppressing fire, every bullet missing because THAT'S ROGUELIKES BABY.
I guess.
What a pain, that run felt like a decent start, had lots of shrines and secrets and stuff.

its probably a trap right

MfSh^WuJian, got to lair twice, died both times. Feels underwhelming. Like I'm totally independent of rng because of unarmed and the starting talisman, but also don't have the skill budget to get anything else online fast enough before I get turbofucked with no way to escape. Shapeshifter seems to really really want me to branch into spellcasting but I just can't do it or I die.
I actually caught myself investing into stealth and stabbing last run because it was more effective than using the forms, which is just sad.
Doesn't help that every talisman is totally unique and requires it's own set of backup skills which are all different
>different element casting forms
>armor forms that merge gear but allow weapons
>weapon forms that merge weapons but allow armor
In theory I'm a shapeshifter, I can use any of these, but in practice I can only use one form, mayeb two, unless I somehow gring infinite exp in a zugg or something(good fucking luck doing a zig as a shapeshifter!) and max out all the skills.

>>537559982
you think whales is secretly seething about them getting free money off his open sourced game?

>The Shining One
>It's a literal shining "1"
DCSS was a mistake

>>537580720
Nah, he left ages ago, and he selected a license that permits commercial use.

The way I see it, if you can find a way to add enough value that people will pay you for something they could get for free, good for you, I guess.

>>537581037
Can't believe I never noticed it before

>>537516989
Shadowed dev here. It's possible, but honestly, the genre is extremely underrated in how difficult it is to develop for. Dev communities are always filled with people who start out and then quit a week later, but it's especially bad with RLs because of how difficult things are, as well as the fact that they seem simple on the surface. They also seem to attract people who think that things will go smoothly because that person has past programming experience, and it pretty much never pans out that way on your first game in any genre really.

>>537577938
depends on what chapter of shonen we're on

>>537584716
Big problem is you can't control anything directly, or really effectively do playtests by yourself.
It's kinda like a multiplayer game that way, you can try to make sure everything works, but you can't actually tell until lots of people are giving you feedback, and then using that feedback is a nightmare as every change either seems to do nothing or totally fuck the whole thing at random.

>>537570107
>Axes guy: "Hmm I'm gonna be surrounded a lot. I'll want a tower shield to not die quickly!"
>Polearms guy:"Hmm all of my top-tier 1H weapons drop like candy, so I guess I'll start training shields now!"
>Blunt weapons guy: "I'm not an Oni so all of my 2H options are dogshit past the early-game, so I might as well use a shield in my free hand!"
>Blades guy: "i'm stacking a billion dex so I can't easily wear heavy armor. Better grab a shield to cover my ass!"
>Ranged guy: "Hand cannons are stupidly rare so I guess I'll have to use a longbow, but I hope I'll finally get to wear a shield!"
>Staves guy: "What's a lajatang? I'm a pussy bitch mage with a magic stave and a buckler to protect my virginity!"

>>537589106
love to pay 30SH plus 7 accuracy tip for the privilege of 5 extra damage on my swings.

>>537591284
It almost felt worth it when I could start the game with Manifold Assault in my spellbook. Full LoS range with a 2H weapon basically makes it a bow that costs mana to fire, but of course they fucked Manifold Assault too.

>>537596530
>Full LoS range with a 2H weapon basically makes it a bow that costs mana to fire
>crawl.exe
>but of course they fucked Manifold Assault too.
>esc esc esc esc

Brogue is a great game honestly, definitely underrated here

>>537606574
Yup. It's a fucking level 7 spell that also requires training a weapon to min delay. The effect of Manifold Assault is still powerful when you cast it, of course. But so is Shatter. For the amount of training that it takes to make Manifold Assault good, you literally could be casting Shatter instead.

>>537261132
Gold

>>537611229
Shatter gives you petrify and passwall.
Manifold gives you passage of glorb.

Seems fair that shatter would be a bit better.

>>537610673
Brogue is too fair and good a game and thus always ownfaulted. Who's going to post their L in an objectively based game?

>>537216231
>try ia
>try every class
>every run ends with
>open tomb
>die to invisible thing
fucking unavoidable bullshit zero counterplay deaths. nice ""design""

>>537619001
I'm gonna fucking kill you AND Coghater
Just don't open the fucking tomb if you're not ready to cheese it.
Aura of Decay works if you're really stupid, or you can kite it to a chokepoint and zombie dust it, I guess.
But you should just clear the area before you graverob- Maybe find the stairs, then pop the tomb open, grab the loot and scoot. Shut the door and don't look back.
izi peasy, please come back when you've died to the dumb fucking shrieking dickbags

>>537619772
>don't open the fucking tomb
No.

>>537611806
I don't begrudge Shatter for its power. I just think Manifold is kinda trash now. Sometimes you luck into all the right pieces to make Manifold work, but usually it's a trap. Gavotte is the spell you really need to find to justify investing more than ~10 levels into Translocations. Then after Gavotte has already won the game for you, you're allowed to fuck around with Manifold. But if you don't have Gavotte then it's too long without a power spike to train straight into Manifold. It comes online too late and requires too much investment in other skills besides just Translocations to actually be good.

There's no point to keeping this Chrome Revolver around since I already have this Issachar Rifle, right? Might as well sell it right off?

>>537620457
don't open the fucking tomb.... Right away?
You're explorer mans. Deal with the unwashed savages first, THEN grave rob
...And stop trying to manfight the ghost, you're worse than coghater. Just walk away it won't even chase you 50 feet

>>537620715
>But if you don't have Gavotte then it's too long without a power spike to train straight into Manifold
this is my main gripe about dcss spellcasting in general. the spell progression from early to mid to late always feels like shit.
it'ld be nice if spellbooks weren't just completely incoherent combinations from a gameplay standpoint, it'ld also be nice if half the spells weren't gutter trash.

>>537623025
Name a gutter trash spell.

>>537621638
you might have a bit of the tism

>>537623109
FORGE MONARCH BOMB

>>537581037
They changed the texture from a cross to a "1" years ago to remove any kind of ideological/political impact about it.

>>537623109
Sigil of Binding. I actually like it on Barachi but that is the ONLY time I use it.

>>537624778
picking a hex spell is cheating

>>537624778
Assuming you're a hexer, you're incentivized to turn your melee damage off and stand right next to an enemy for multiple turns, or else spam sleep and hope it lands. This means you are likely to take half hp damage before getting a hit in in some portion of fights. Sigil gives you the ability to set up a reliable retreat before a fight begins, meaning it completes your strategy against many enemies, even ones who are faster than you.

Sigil slaps.

>>537623417
As I understand it, that's a summon who makes summons. I can't tell how much damage it deals, but it seems to suggest 2d8 per explosion. Explosions are generally unevadable.

So lvl 6 monarch is lets say 4*2d8 = 64 damage
vs
starburst is 6d25 at 200 spell power. Realistically, you'll be dealing less, lets say 6d18 = 108 instead of 150 total.

Both have similar waveclear, except that monarch is harder to deploy. it takes turns worth of setup. Starburst is capable of hurting far stronger enemies. Monarch, however, is a summon. It does not require that you stand in front of your target. It does not always attack the same thing as you. It and its bombs take up spaces which enemies are not in. It bodyblocks. The utility of a 1 turn summon which makes multiple followers is very high, even if their only job is to stand there and get beaten.

And 64 damage with minimal spell power sounds pretty good, anyway. Wiki didn't say what spellpower does here.

>>537625728
maybe you should use the spell instead of theorycrafting off a half finished wiki page lol

Path of asscrack bros...
Lands of achra never ever.

>>537202580
Base ToME4 sprites are actual art, because they all look so aggresively fucking ugly jesus christ.

Has anyone who has killed void weaver and dropped this ryusei armor set tell me how it works? The entire set weighs around 700kg and wearing a single piece makes you unable to stand up. The only usable piece is the battle kit, which incidentally gives you a buff that makes it "nearly impossible to be knocked over or pushed back", though it doesn't apply to being knocked over due to weight, it seems. Is there a trick to using it, or is everything except the sword and battle kit a joke?

>>537637287
Can* not has sorry am retarded nigger

Hey bros

Are there any dungeon crawling co-op games in a similar vein to Barony? FP or TP are fine

>>537636067
Let him cook. He hasn't let us down yet and he seems to be working at a pretty decent pace honestly. I have more faith in Achraman than any of these other roguelike devs right now.

>>537625728
You're so retarded it hurts.

>>537642154
>I have more faith in Achraman
>his next game isn't even roguelike

>>537642232
Eh it's close enough. We'll see when it comes out.

>>537642232
Better a guy that finishes games over someone that spends a decade diddling the same garbage.

>>537642154
I trust him, he'll cook.

I wish Elin were balanced around permadeath.

>>537621546
It solely depends on the skills you choose to put points in. I always go for rifles rather than pistols and end up selling the revolvers for some liquid money

>>537650985
I'm glad it wasn't

>>537661546
the game kinda sucks THOUGH. It's just grindslop with no risk.

>>537587297
5th one i think..tower of fortune and dice of fate

>>537665567
Yes.

>>537655685
Aight, yeah.
I keep seeing various things that seem to point to rifles being worse late game and the skills "not as good" as pistols, but pistols being ammo hungry so like
I figure I don't put too many points into rifle, try and get a nice pistol- Not sure if I should go for the Masterwork Scoped Carbine or Chain Pistol though, desu or what.
Not that I've gotten a character that far anyways.

Hold my hand plis RLG chads.
I built a marauder with uh
>multiple arms
>a beak
>night vision (I don't think it's working, is mutant night vision dogshit compared to true hooman??)
>Precog
>Mental Mirror (Dogshit, I've heard, whatever, could have gotten fur and slime ig)

I just kind of wanna try axe dismember cheese (Do I stack STR or AGI btw?)
I think right now Phasing>Wings>Flaming Ray, unless I want to start melee cheesing with wings?
Phasing I figure is great to explore caves early, but only good until I can get a pneumo hammer (I'm probably overestimating how soon that would come anyways), so maybe wings is more value?

Also, do I just pick up multi-weapon Flurry and stuff to dismember for quad hand axeman it up?

>>537665567
an accurate assessment

>>537625728
Monarch bomb is a 99% backloaded spell that takes 12 mp 2 full actions and several turns of waiting to do anything relevant.
Bomblets can't be tempered to sneak in smite targeted damage against the enemies trying to kill you. It kills your other summons.
IT KILLS YOUR OTHER SUMMONS.
And you pray to sweet baby jesus that the bombs aren't body blocking because they do not explode on death, and they die in one hit, and if the main one dies you're now 7+ turns and 18 mp away from seeing your spell do any damage because you have to recast to clear off a single living bomblet.

And after you've spent all this time and mana and hassle? It doesn't even apply enough to clear a lair pack in practice. Nice level 6 dual school spell, i'ld rather clear sbranches with starter spells.

the dreams are so wild man

new roguelike just dropped

>>537710017
Here's your (you), baiter

roguelikes need to go to the next level
roguesex

>>537187696 (OP)
yal'l some goofy aaaaaaaaah niggas

Two bards come together to do what bards do
>Alchemy

I'm not gonna play a roguelike just to have something to keep the thread alive with you cucks. Start some runs, damn.

>>537710017
Was playing the last couple days. I haven't unlocked all the classes yet, but Vampire feels absolutely busted with how strong it is.
>self heals all day
>can shit out *free* projectiles with punches
>fuck off AoE every 10 seconds without an annoying animation slowing it down
>the Blood Ritual weapon absolutely slaps
Literally why even play other characters?

>>537710017
What's the deal with those oaths you can take? Some of them just feel absolutely terrible, but I don't know if there's any penalty for not taking them.

I'm fed up with searching on my own, just tell me which fork of Cataclysm is the best now.

>>537734665
Bright Nights is the most fun and user friendly. DDA is great if you like realism and micromanagement and you hate fun, TLG is great if you enjoy beta-testing for a weirdo

BN is my pick. I actually like the dev community, unlike DDA. (Can't' say about TLG, haven't dealt with them yet)

>>537734665
bn has the least tedium. cdda has the most stuff. tlg has the most segmentation fault

>>537263948
Berlin was created specifically to disallow Diablo from being a roguelike and no further, it was overly lenient and left a lot of wiggle room for experimentation because they didn't think there would ever be a real definition problem with the term roguelike outside Diablo because it's just some niche freeware games played by autists, no way any other groups would even interact with the term enough to misuse it, RIIIIIGHT?

>>537735130
It's an utterly bizarre fascination some people have with coming into the roguelike community and shoehorning their roguelite into being one.

Like... Sure, ok, you have to accept that 85% or more of gamers just will never give a shit about the difference (and the remaining 15% will give up after realizing nobody else cares about the difference you just painstakingly explained to them)

But to accept and understand and know the difference and STILL want to piss all over the vibe.
Fuckin why??

>>537737286
card and dice games are roguelikes now, deal with it chud

>>537737286
>It's an utterly bizarre fascination some people have with coming into the roguelike community and shoehorning their roguelite into being one.

/tg/ has a simliar problem with the OSR movement, which started out to resurrect original TSR D&D and quickly became a meaningless marketing buzzword, with nerds getting furious if you tell them their unrelated things are not OSR

>>537716593
How can they when there's only one good roguesex game?

>>537741457
Wait, there's an H roguelike? Does the president know about this?

I regret picking this dogshit prebuild. What am I supposed to do here, anyways? Dual-wield wrench/dagger and try to cheese my way to an early main quest completion?

>>537745551
Kill plants in the marsh for a few levels, take desert navigation, go to Six Day Stilt.

>>537730137
It scales sorta like ass into later runs, but I haven't played mortal sin since a year or two ago.

>>537746086
I've actually never gone there, just grind to 10 and die in historic ruins or caves under Joppa or Rust Wells.
Guess I should try.

>>537742849
No we must keep it a secret

I was having a pleasant chat with some random cutie that was passing by and all I could think of was "MATING PRESS MATING PRESS MATING PRESS" as she played with her hair.

>>537752480
You didn't discuss roguelike with her this time?

>>537753529
Oh yeah she said she was playing hades and the binding of isaac. Personally I'm more of a balatro fan.

>>537753735
Phew if she had mentioned something like Cataclysm you might have to deal with her dick being bigger in the future

>>537753846
>the sad realization that you will never have a pleasant evening of listening to a cute woman sperg about cdda development going to shit and how shitty pocket mechanics are

>>537756513
I managed to get a pleasant postcoital evening of listening to a cute girl sperging about how secrets of mana was fucking bullshit while I turbovacuum'd her nipples and that's an objectively terrible 40 year old jrpg so that can't be that hard

Roguelike devs what resources did you find useful in making your ragu?

t. newbie dev.

>>537760052
youtube videos

>>537624549
>every time I think DCSS can't possibly get any worse its devs prove otherwise
It's genuinely impressive by this point.

>>537762840
I don't know. "Our god which most directly opposes demons and evil spirits is literally just Jesus." is a bit more than just having a political statement.

It's also kind of lame in its own way.

>>537763531
I'm with you. The altar design is the last thing I'm gonna complain about in nu dcss.

Kinda disappointed in JHC honestly. Feels like there's not much character progression, and I have no idea how to pick between different stairs.

>>537762840
That change happened like a million year ago

>>537794292
Before I installed trunk last week the instance on my shitbox was .24 (it was already changed then, anyways, I think) but checking the wiki shows the last trunk I played would've been .28
Shame, though, Meteoran sounds cool.
Not good, but cool. Go loud, be proud, press t>t to shout. Could be fun.

idk why we call it Stone Soup, that story was about a guy getting a village to add a bunch of random ingredients to make a tasty soup.
DCSS is a collaborative removal process, if anything

What to do with Qud arm blossoms?
That's just an arm without a hand then? So I can wear an extra bracer or some shit? 5 bucklers?

dumb elin question:
which fish are worth more when turned straight into wine instead of bonito flake wine?
not quite sure about where the line goes and don't really want to start testing it today

So I've been thinking about it and isn't the DCSS race selection basically just bullshit?
There's only like three actual character types
>human generalist
>human but with lopsided apts
>human but with restricted equip slots
Like the only difference is skill allocation and equipment. Felids are just human monks who don't wear any armor, gargoyles are just stone form, undead are just death form, etc...
You can basically treat all the differences as starting equipment you can't take off, nothing actually plays different than anything else.

If you allowed point buy for skill apts and starting equipment literally all the races and backgrounds would effectively cease to exist. In reality there's just one character: the Crawl-Man.

>You charge right through!
>kay...

>>537810913
You mean CoQ's mutant.

>>537780748
Check the 5 traits at the bottom of the list, pick one and work towards it - they're like sub-classes and have a huge impact on the character.

Stairs - gray go down, green go to a branch. Red stairs are special levels with special rewards - each branch has a different one and so do the main branchless route. Once you give each a shot and know what to expect you pick one on each moon based on build and equipment.

>>537810913
No.

Lack of chest armor is the most significant bit. Characters with this trait have higher spell casting chances in general and higher stealth, while also having less defense, meaning they have multiple stacking reasons to try to win fights before physical contact occurs, and less value from certain buffs due to less survivability. That's a different way of fighitng in the most extreme way.

Stealth in general is the second most significant. While stabs are always good, a character who must fight almost every enemy they see is different from a character who almost always has 1 turn in which to decide if they should let that enemy sleep and go fight something else. While the chest armor makes a big difference here, some creatures have very high aptitude for this and/or natural stealth buffs. Since enemy stealth-detection scales, that means some characters simply are more sneaky during actual gameplay, and picking your stats can't quite make up for that without other large sacrafices. Some characters are stronger than others when played this way, meaning they have different ideal ways to be played.

Resistances in general are important, and some characters come with free resistances. Specifically, the mummy. Free immunity to poison makes a large difference as to which early-game fights you have to think twice about, which enemies you are naturally strong against, even if the mummy is weak in general. Sure, another class can eventually become a mummy, but they certainly can't use death form to clear lair and dungeon, and must pay in large amounts of skill-points for the privilege.

Generally speaking, if a character has shapeshifting locked away or has armor locked away, that means they don't have to pay for it, meaning that they get greater access to other skills, either physical or magical. Early access to higher-power spells means you're using them earlier, which means you solve hard fights differently than you otherwise would.

>>537815097
Many characters have extra-attack mutations, such as minotaur horns and octapode constriction. Those attacks work under different conditions, and so solve different problems and demand different choices. The horns, while they trivialize some enemies, can't actually be depended on since they have a % chance to activate and require you get hit. Instead, they tend to clear out weak swarms when you have enough defense and kill enemies who you are running away from. Amulet of acrobat + horns will kill ogers on its own, often, and no other creature can do that. Octapode lowers enemy evasion with their constriction, meaning that low-accuracy spells like shock and sandblast benifit from inflicting this status first. Octapode also has reason to ignore an almost-dead enemy in favor of attacking another, which is a risky idea in general.

Some characters have extra abilities. The draconian breath weapon can do wonders all the way through zot, if used well. While I haven't used it, the poltergeist also has a special ability which lets you select a single occasional threat and give yourself a large advantage against it. These abilities let you stand your ground more often against stronger enemies without spending piety or potions, meaning that there's an extra reward for correctly understanding when to use these buffs which other characters don't have.

Demigod does not have a god. This means no special panic button. Opposite to the previous example, this character has even less chances to select a tough enemy and get an advantage of them, but also the demigod is stronger in general. They have more reason to train shields and dodging, since they are highly dependent on their stats and those skills turn dex into defense. Higher general defense and offense means they don't need so many buffs and panic buttons, meaning they shouldn't use them on so many targets. They also have higher spell power, in general, and so can make their own advantage-state, more often.

>>537815097
>>537816220
Yeah but all of those things are fake.
Like if I just decide to not wear armor or use weapons as a human, that's just a felid, there's no difference. Sure the skills are slightly different, but I've played human stabbers before, it's entirely possible.
As for resistances that's once again totally possible, several times I've found resistance rings to poison/neg/elements on D1 or else gotten randarts with them.

There's really just skills and equipment slots. Resistances are just an invisible equipment slot and starting gear, aptitudes are just a manual. Any race and background can be created directly out of a human character by just dropping a pile of loot right at the start of the game using wizmode and self imposing restrictions on gearslots/skills.
And that's not even considering mutations!

>>537817681
Human with no weapon gets no stab bonus, and has regular stealth aptitude. Human with no armor is still a norma-sized body, and so had lower evasion.

Human pays more skill points and eventually caps off at less stealth and less evasion while doing less damage.

>>537818148
All fixed with equipment/muts.
Like for example you can just use a +0 dagger and now you have "stab claws"
Modulate the skill points to match unarmed damage of a felid.
>normal sized
+dex/evasion equipment
>stealth
literally just a scarf

There's no difference at all. Felid is just a human with cursed unremovable equipment that boosts their stats but has zero AC.

>>537817681
Aptitudes and manuals stack. A human with a stealth manual gets up to 16, while a cat or an octapode may hit 27 from that alone. Still different.

Poison immunity is different from what you can find on basically any any natural armor or jewelry. Finding a poison ring and using it means giving up that ring slot, but the mummy doesn't have any locked equipment other than shapeshifting itself. This means that, assuming we're giving both characters the right to just spawn in equipment, that a starting human can never be equal to a starting mummy in these ways. EXP will always tilt in favor of the human, and equipment benefits will tilt in favor of the mummy in some way.

>>537818663
Claws scale off of strength while dagger scales off of dex.
Dagger is short blades while Claws is unarmed combat, meaning that claw damage scales directly with skill level while the dagger scales with enchantment and scale as a % with skill. Daggers generally simply deal less damage.

The cat will be able to take greater advantage of forms like storm and dragon, if that part of the game is reached, than the equivalent dagger-based human.

Assuming we're just comparing the equipment sets directly,
cat: ring, ring, necklace
human: ring, ring, necklace, hat, chest, glove, boot, cape, weapon, shield

Cat benefits are stealth+, higher evasion scaling, stab+, rC+, ac, sInv, bite, and lives.

Assume a single fancy hat for sInv, stealth+, and 2AC
Assume a dagger for stab+
Assume necklace is the dream-necklace to make up for lives
Assume shield is rC+ and makes up for the evasion
assume +5slay on glove to make up for bite

>>537821287


It's now
Cat: necklace
Human: chest(robe) cape, boot

Meaning, if the cat has cursed equipment, then that equipment sucks ass, and is permanent. The human still has to give far more exp in order to reach the same point as the cat. The human has to get pretty lucky to get the equipment which makes it work like the cat. The human still won't actually have that equipment until late in the game. The human's revival is far less significant. The human's HP is much greater and so revival is going to be less common or acceptable as a part of strategy. The human is capable of reaching, overall, greater heights than the cat, and those heights are inherently a bit different. The cat is forced to use tools the human doesn't have early access too, and that's what "different gameplay" is. In the end, given every possible equivocation, the two characters still only seem kind-of equal if you squint.

>>537818663
I will simply choose to find gear with the stats I want (lol)

>>537807175
https://ylvapedia.wiki/wiki/Elin:Vendors/Wine_Prices

>>537821440
You're still not getting it. A felid is just a human starting class with preset equipment and mutations.
That's all races/background are: starting equipment, some of which you can't take off.

I'm not saying that ingame you're going to naturally find everything needed for one race to become another, but that you could trivially spawn in items and effectively transmute a human into any other race by using them. Races are just starting item packages.

The fact that we're arguing about felids and octopodes makes it even more obvious, you didn't even bother to attempt saying any other races weren't just humans with a funny sprite.

>>537822001
I did tho
cause like
there was a part where I listed a bunch of other races
and described them individually and in groups.

>all they are
If you choose to make your claim as strong as this, then I just have to gesture above. Even given every equivocation, humans still aren't equivalent to fields in ideal strategy or effect. Dream necklace =/= 70% and regenerating lives. Shields =/= being small, actually.

If, hypothetically, there was a character who was capable of wearing 7 hats and 4 shoes, along with normal equipment, that character would not be equal to a human, even if every other detail was the same.

>>537810913
>Like the only difference is skill allocation and equipment
That's the entire fucking game, my man. What did you expect the difference to be?

>>537822727
I've avoided mentioning throwing weapons, but lets mention throwing weapons. Small critters can't use them. Javalins do wonders against fire orbs, which are some of the most important enemies to prepare for in the game. You can call this a locked equipment slot, but it's more like a locked skill.Assuming that just having a "locked skill" is the same as being a human-with-alterations, then we can imagine a class which has every skill locked and every equipment slot locked while receiving no benifits and then say this is the same thing as a human in some essential manner.

It's a coherent and internally-consistent viewpoint and therefore correct. It's just completely divorced from reality as either of us experiences it, and ONLY coherent under its own rules. It is outside of the bounds of relevance.

>>537822746
I dunno, anything? As it stands it's just an anti-rng measure.
I was playing a bunch of characters after only using a few races for years and started realizing there really wasn't any difference between any of them. I was doing the same thing in the same way every time.
Sure there's some obvious differences, but they're minor tweaks and optimizations, not real changes.

Like obviously stabber/blaster/tabber play differently, at least until/unless you make a hybrid out of them, but within those archetypes there's little to no variation.
And honestly they don't even really exist since you'd naturally shift between them in an optimal playthrough.
Stabber is always the best strategy for earlygame, and it's pretty much free to get your first stealth points, everyone who can pick up a big axe and armor can become a tabber, and every character that finds the right spells can turn into a blaster.

To make things clearer I'll give an example of something that's NOT trivial: the god choice.
It's actually different, the whole game changes seriously in ways no items or skills can emulate.
Trog v Chei v Nem is a REAL choice, you can't possibly make them equivalent.

>>537823624
Again, I ask, what did you expect the difference to be? Surely you've played some other game that does this amazingly well.

>>537823624
Trog is regen, will, summon, and breserk. It's equal to potions.
Chei is evasion/spellpower and damage, which is slay, ev+, and arch
nemalex is blasting-spells, summons, or "escape". Escape is potion effects + a wall and a banish. Banish isn't different from a blasing spell and wall is either passwall or splinterfrost, depending, but most often it's the same as haste/swiftness.

>>537824740
Yeah, DCSS. I want the races and classes to be like the gods, entirely different experiences.
The difficulty is really just that the base game is so simplistic now there's not much room for differences. Like every possible melee class no matter what plays in the exact same o-tab way and every stabber works with the exact same strategy. I actually kinda like the modern spells fuckery forcing you to do stupid shit to use them, aside from them being mostly janky and broken to the point where you just always have to ignore them and use the straightforward spells instead. At least it's different.

In managing to define exactly how two things are different, you also define exactly what details would have to be accounted for in order to make them the same.

A bucket of popcorn is the same as a bucket of shit, except with more popcorn and less shit. Or with a mere 4 hour time difference.

This is an essential issue with perception.

>>537825319
Trog is no magic, chei is permaslow, nemelex is unidentifiable items, ru is every race with restrictions rolled into one, xom is practically a different game, vehumet gives all your spells an extra tile of range(which is way more of a huge deal than you'd expect), etc...
It's not just a matter of degree.
Even the item gods are a complete change of the game balace by giving you massively more of their buffs than are normally possible. Like ika giving you effectively infinite heroism potions.

>>537822001
This line of reasoning is just a function of the (much stupider) argument that "Like, you can put any stat you want on equipment, bro..."
How about a Ring of Reviving +0? Every time you gain three levels, this ring gains one enchantment level- On death, revive and subtract one...?

Wow, it's just like being a Felid, lmao

>>537826054
If no magic is a meaningful difference, then so is no javalins.
So is no god.
So is no chest plate.

>>537823624
Wait so you can fucking find bizarrely curved gear drops to mimic entire different progression paths while committing to esoteric conducts and rolling the exact mutations to mostly mimic some other race's performance

But you can't just pick decks up and trust the heart of the cards without using Nemelex?? Just topdeck what you want, lmao. Since it's so easy already.

"Djinn are just humans with uh, really weird amulets and uh, Vine Stalkers aren't real, we should've removed them with Meteorans and Hill Orcs!"

Spellcasting in Heavy Armor? It's basically just getting like, a manual or something

>>537826115
Forget all of that, I mean it doesn't really matter does it? Like say you decide you want to play a stabber, is there REALLY any difference between any of the stabber races and a human? Like are you actually playing seriously differently? Or is it just a slight increase/decrease in challenge.
Cause I don't feel anything major. A caster will get spells online at different d levels, but is otherwise the same, a tabber will be more or less cautious but otherwise the same, a stabber will skip more or less levels but is otherwise the same.
Being a felid and not being able to pick up armor is basically the same as deciding to play a stealth human and finding an executioner's axe. Sure you COULD pick it up and use it, but you could also just decide you don't actually want to play that kind of character right now and ignore it.

>>537826614
Well yeah it is pretty much. There's no difference in gameplay whether I'm a djinni or a deep elf or a human or a ogre or a felid if I'm playing a blaster caster. One character does slightly more damage and has a slightly lower cast fail rate than the others, that's it.
You're playing the same game, performing the same actions.

>>537826054
Magic Dart is just hitting a guy, but from far away, but only about every third turn on average.
Chei is just pressing . every other key
Nemelex is just... Finding a deck of cards(???lol???)
Ru is just DCSS v.40 once all the bloat is removed
Xom is net neutral

And Vehumet doesn't give you anything that you couldn't get by just walking forward one tile?? By far your weakest argument. It's harder to get a consistent source of sInv or dual-wield two handers than it is to just walk forward one tile

>>537825327
>i want it to be different
>ok, how?
>anything
>ok, gimme something specific
>I want the race and classes to be ... different experiences.
Ok, so again, what specifically did you want to change? Stop fucking vagueposting like a faggot and state even one fucking example of what you think would make it a different experience.

Also, dcss doesn't have classes in the first place. It's a background, not a railroad you ride from before the game starts.

>>537827205
If you're so good at the game that there's no meaningful choices to be made, no matter what race or general build you've developed in the early game
And it's a foregone conclusion you'll make it to the mid-game, where you'll face zero consequences or boons related to your race
And it's a foregone conclusion you'll make it to the late-game, where you'll face zero consequences or boons related to your race

Just find a different game to play. You beat this one. Not once, or twenty streaks. You just mathematically solved Crawl, stop wasting your time with it.
Here's the (you), champ. You did it, you won at DCSS.

>>537827481
Alright, MAKE IT a railroad, that'd be different.
Specializations now become mandatory.
Trolls can ONLY use claws and can't use armor or spells at all, merfolk can only use tridents and ice magic, Djinni only get fire spells, all mummies are necromancers and can't use weapons.
Now there'd be some real differences, humans are also a unique class simply for being allowed to mix and match skills as they please.
Want a hybrid race? Skill caps, no exp you just physically are not allowed to cast above 4th level or pick up second tier weapons.

>>537827686
Who said I won? I die all the time, but it's just faulting, nothing to do with race.
I can get killed in the same situation as a minotaur berserker and a felid hexer. Likewise I can succeed with either if I don't fuck up.
I'm just saying it's kinda boring how the race/class choice is meaningless and how I wish it had more variety so there was a reason to play anything specific besides which sprite you like the most.

>>537827879
Making it a railroad now means that drops do not affect your gameplay. You now do not respond to what the game gives you and instead attempt to press your class as far as your class can go while hoping the game gives you the much-more-narrow items which your class/race combo specifically benefits from. Now it's a 1/(races*classes) chance that each game-saving-drop you get is the particular item your class needs for mid game, meaning that the player is not being rewarded for making the best out of what the game decides to give them.

That's a worse game.

>>537828210
you complain that you play the races like they are basically the same despite their differences in ideal play

then you say you fault and die

do the math

>>537828210
>I can get killed in the same situation as a minotaur berserker and a felid hexer. Likewise I can succeed with either if I don't fuck up.

Condenser vane thoughts.
Don't worry, project Remove All Races Except Humans (Or Lookalike Exceptions) (RAREHOLE) will fix your concerns in a few more version.
You won't pick a race or a background in NUnuDCSS. Just o+tab and unavoidable ownfaults

>>537828487
Where's the sweet spot then, do you think?
On a sliding scale from
>"95% of games can eke out a 3 rune, even if the worst case is blowing every consumable as they clear the door on 1 max HP"

>"Every single run can feasibly reach extended, do a zigg and grab every rune if played optimally, no matter how ball bashingly tedious 'optimal' play is"

>>537828487
Just rip out the useless item gen and have all drops converted to be usable to your current class.

Better yet do the exact opposite, remove all skills and classes and make items directly into abilities. Spellbooks just let you cast the spells in them, weapon skill is just flat enchant bonus, see that wand, you can zap it.

>>537829141
Completely randomize runes and balance them for equal levels, then make them much harder, add more of them, and go with the first scenario.
>any character can get at least three of the runes and the orb if they pick the right ones and use the right strategy
Extended is bad design, literally intentionally cutting off half the game and not letting 99% of runs even see it.
I want to see three rune Tomb/Hell/Vaults runs.

And this >>537827879 is why it's best to get people to lay out their whole idea before disputing specific points. So you can disregard them as obvious retards.

>>537829260
If you just want to play your race/class out play ToME4. Even that has some schizo builds like poison mindstar rogue, melee classes using short staves, arcane blade's best weapon being a bow, etc

>>537829628
An extended game isn't unheard of in the genre, like Brogue's basements, but I guess it is a design flaw that swamp/spider/vaults are just the easiest 3 runes by far and there's not much decision making unless you have perfect resistances for slime

>>537829772
There's a reason this kind of obtuse waffling gets your hackles on edge
You know they've got some dumb fuckin core idea they know everyone is gonna make fun of them for saying

>>537830220
Extended should just be the infinite levels. Ziggs are fine as an optional post game super area. It shouldn't be literally 4/5ths of the areas!
There's fifteen runes, FIFTEEN! And everyone always does the same three! The only reason we have any variety at all is the lair branches having variants. Even that's fake variety, why not just have ALL the lair branches available in every game so you can pick between them?

>>537830549
>>537829772
Learned helplessness is a serious problem in the roguelike community.
There are two types of anons, those who strive for change and those who fear it.

fugg
thought i got out of my addiction but some random /v/ thread got me to recheck some roguelikes i played for a few hundred hours each in the past and now i have barely slept since i chose to play them again and rediscovered why they were so damn addicting
i should just stick to nethack

>>537831307
If you can pick between them, then they fail to be variety. You will now just pick the 2 which your character is best at, which will be the same on every run for that character.

Inability to select your specific tools creates variety.
Inability to select your specific challenge creates variety.

>>537832356
Alright then just make them random from ALL the branches. Your lair options for this game are now Hell, Vaults, and Abyss.
Turn all the other branches into random choices too, then half the number.
Also have only have the gods and half the items spawn.
You'll complete slime with an octopode of trog and you'll like it!

>>537832689
Well, that would certainly be variety, if that's what you were after.

>>537831487
The change in this case being "make it like every other rpg"
The whole raison d'etre of dcss is that you're specifically not locked out of spells or melee simply because you started the game with a bow in your hand or pointy ears.

>>537758806
Wasn't trying to see this

>>537833287
Sounds like bad design. The entire point of roguelikes is combinatorial elements making a mechanically simple game into a much larger more complex one.
With unique races, classes, items, gods, enemies, floors, and branches, you can put in the labor of making a 10 hour game and turn it effectively into a 10000 hour game by reducing playtime down to one hour on average.
Simple formulas that create massive complexity and variety is the foundation of procgen.
Though yes the second pillar is strategic headroom which allows you to cobble together any random shit you happen to find into something coherent enough to win so 90% of games aren't just "well guess the RNG decided you're fucked, time to restart!"

In that spirit instead of locking half the items/gods, just lock them INSIDE the branches. Want blaster spells? They're all in Hell? Want a good weapon? They're ONLY in Vaults/Elf.
This is already half implemented, there's branch altars and different item tables, but they usually don't matter since by the time you get to most of them you're basically done with your build just off dungeon drops.
For a less extreme example, just put all the good items in random vaults, no unrands lying out on the floor, you've gotta kill this minotaur to get his executioner's axe.

I have nooticed something.
Most DDA players fall into 1 of the 2 categories.
Every player that uses Ultica/Altica tileset exclusively plays as a male character.
While every player who uses UDP/MSX+ tileset only ever plays female characters.
Is there some transcoded dogwhistle about UDP/MSX+ ?

>>537834287
>They're ONLY in Vaults/Elf.
While that one is almost the case already, your setting up a chian.

You start with nothing, obviously, or very little. You have the correct tools to handle 1 branch, or part of one.

To do elf, you need two resistances and enough firepower to deal with a demonologist before they get out of hand and a blademaster when they inevitably get right next to you.

to do hell, you need the ability to fight without retreat when dropped into at least 1 group of strong enemies. A wand of digging really really helps with this.

To do vault, you need dps enough to not be overwelmed and a bit of stealth helps, and maybe a quiet way to snipe wardens.

So now you do vault to get a evokables so that you can do elf to get a weapon so that you can do hell. Each branch becomes the container for the weakness of another branch. As this would become the most significant aspect of progress, a character being slightly better at evasion and therefore being better able to handle dungeon/vault/hell would be irrelevant compared to the effect of what you found in other branches. This causes characters to play more similarly while making the branches even more linear. .

>>537832356
Variety: Sometimes you have to scum the top most layer(s) of every branch and Exclude a couple threats till later. Sometimes you don't have to do that.

>>537837289
Rebalance the branches to be more flexible in their requirements.
Shuffle their locations/order/variant to prevent using the same chain every time.
Honestly do this with the non rune branches too.
Every game should not go to Lair.
Put branches into other branches recursively in randomized orders, have multiple entrances to each branch.

>>537838945
If they are "rebalanced" in their requirements in a way which is relevant to my critique, then the branches no longer really need their mechanical "weaknesses" in order to be completed, meaning that all branches are weak enough to be completed using tools that don't even work that well relatively. Since their perfect-counters still exist, that means many branches become piss-easy when you DO show up with tools that work on them, or else that all options have been re-balanced to be about equally valid.

>>537834924
Shit post, but UDP is cartoony and cute, there's your answer

>>537839885
That's bad rebalancing. Don't remove the ways to beta them, add more.
For example even just having each branch have two obvious methods for clearing them tied to two other branches turns the ideal line into multiple loops. Three methods allow intersections of these loops into arbitrary patterns.

But there's even better ways to balance these issues while also adding new content, multiplying available strategies, and all without having to actually create much new content.
Merge the branches together into pairs at random. Instead of 15 rune branches you now have 225. And every single branch now automatically has at least two very distinct methods of clearing it.
Slime Hell, Elf Swamp, Spider Vault, Abyss Tomb.
How to merge them? There's several ways. Just stick each floor together down a seam, alternate floors, merge lists and have separate themed vaults, merge vaults and have separate themed levels, split branches into level modifiers and layer them to make hybrids, etc... Or even all of the above for complete chaos. Can't deal with threats in one side of the branch, run away until you get to a part you can handle.
You could probably do that with a lot of other shit too. Double ended weapons that count as two types, double spells that cast two things at once or work with EITHER(not BOTH) skills, hatgloves, drinkable scrolls, hybrid forms, merged gods, etc...

>>537848669
So now you have 225 branch types all with their own monopolies on separate mechanically-distinct categories of spells, equipment, and resources, but where the items in those categories are simmilar-enough to themselves that they are somewhat interchangeable. In that scenario, each of the

Lets call these groups of branch-specific rewards and categories of character-improvements "capability-schools".

Each of these 225 branches has about 3 types of "capability-shools" which work well on them, each of which can only be found in one of the other branches. This means that there are 225*3 branch-counters, and 225 capability-schools which are those counters.

After you clear 1 branch, you now have tools which work for 3/224 remaining branches, which you may not have access to. After you clear another, you have keys for around 6/225 total branches. The chances you would naturally run into a branch which you had an answer for are currently very low, and so many runs would end due to not having the required equipment.

After you clear 75 branches, you have 75 unlocked capability-schools. You have likely matched your schools to a branch-counter 74 times, and have removed 151 other counters from the pool, some of which you also already possess. you have a total of 225 counters, but those counters will not perfectly map onto the total 225 branches.

Each indevidual counter has a 1/3rd chance of being a counter you possess on average, but near 100% of those 74 branches were matched. so
100%*74+x%*(225*3-74) = 1/3 * 225*3
74+x%*601 = 225
x% = 151/601 therefore x = 25.1247~% so you have a 25% chance of having every counter which you haven't outright used already.
for a branch, with 3 potential counters, you have (1-25.1247%)^3 = 41% chance of not having an answer, even now.

>>537752480
>random cutie that was passing by
were you playing roguelikes in public? they just come up to you and ask what you're doing?
>woah dude is that like the matrix?
huh maybe i should go play roguelikes in some coffee shop in ascii mode

finally managed to drag a necro-based caster across the finish line, i still don't understand how you're supposed to play this trash. it's just jumping through hoops with no payoff in sight.
only time it felt like a real lategame caster is after winning multiple fights with subpar spells to get the scarab death ball up. and then you have to walk a little too far to find your next fight and it's back to suffering.

>>537851529
Wrong formulation, there's 225 possible merged branches, but only 15 required strategies.
The goal is that every branch still can be beat with it's initial required strategy, but can also be beaten by moving through the other branch merged into it. For example Spider Crypt could be beaten with rP OR rN if you ran away from all the encounters you couldn't handle and dived past approximately half the floor.

And you can actually guarantee it's always completed if instead of permutations you use combinations and ensure every existing branch is always reachable by reducing the number of rune branches per game to 7.

>>537856084
Basically it's just a tabber but with necro instead of berserk.
You start out each fight just swinging your axe, then every enemy you kill snowballs buffs and summons. You've got to constantly tactically use animate dead in the middle of fights to nuke your old zombies after they take too much damage and replace them before they kill all the enemies.

roguelikes for this feel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLFx8uY6GwY

>>537861935
You can mispronounce aegis in any roguelike you want, anon

>>537864236
Languages evolve. Ayyyy gis is the correct pronunciation now. You can thank Dota for that one.

>>537187696 (OP)
Vampire Survivors is so fucking good

video games are so fucking shit, pathetic how incels are one shotting their lives over something so mind numbing

yeah I know I've been preferring books recently

>>537867586
>remove video games
>do not replace them with another invented hobby pulled from my imagination
>still ain't got no money when I'm unemployed
>still ain't got no time when I'm employed
>still don't know anyone within 150 miles who isn't my family
>still can't justify the gas expenditure just to go stand conspicuously in public without any actual business to attend to in the hopes that someone speaks to me, fuck that
>certainly don't have any public place where I can exist without it being suspicious or loitering
>guess I'm sitting on my porch and watching the wind now

incels be like "abloo bloo don't take my drugs away"

>>537864426
>illiterate vidjeo gaymers
More like devolution.

I want a hug.

niggas in the club wanting a hug

>>537870162
That should be a roguelike class, like Acolyte of Mister Rogers. Instead of fighting the monsters, you sit them down and talk to them, ask about why they are trying to hurt others, and then give them a hug and tell them they don't have to be monsters if they don't want to be. If you succeed, they become peaceful.

>>537871650
undertale roguelike

>>537871450
Niggas seriously be like the only animal in literal billions of existence who got far enough ahead to ask themselves "why" and then cry at the fact there's no answer while literally every other living thing in existence just goes on with their daily life
humans are literally the teenager emo kid of planet earth

>>537872193
>"why"
Because fuck you that's why

>>537874564
ASS TO
S
S

>>537758806
>will never experience this
Why even live?

>>537880356
Even then all you're left with is memories of someone who's gone.

>>537880356
i do this all the time with my tulpa, git gud

>>537872193
I wish I could like people's post

I haven't played cogmind for a long time, it's hard... Bots keep blowing up my sensors it's a massive pain, but at least I remember some of the trojans for hacking

>>537889428
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9BrMloJEhU

Cockmind
Cataclitsym: Dark Dicks Ahead
Dongeon Crawl: Bone Soon

>>537892308
Made it to Zion
Time to gather every item on the map to make a big loot pile and think for 1 hour about what to leave behind

>>537858107
>tabber except you have a bunch of win more spells that are backloaded and deal damage slowly
>also your stats are awful for melee
No wonder it's shit. I mean there are good spells in there don't get me wrong, but as a main focus of your character it's awful.

>>537899669
Yolo into the deep caves anyways, game is a fuck, fuck your bomb factory nerds

What sort of guaranteed things are there in CoQ?
I know like, the quests are there always, you can hit up the Mechanimist Convert in Joppa for a headstart on trash artifacts for Argyve, so on

I've just learned that there's a guaranteed statue north of Joppa with the location of a Historic Site, though

Is there anything else like that?

>>537923074
Mayor Nuntu in Kyakukya is guaranteed to have Corpus Choliyus for sale, that is a good one.

>>537925001
Good to know at least. That reminds me I read a little and saw that there's a lot of skills to get via reputation, like meal prep and tinkering. Gotta remember not to waste skill points on those

>>537867959
Also most hobbies are expensive to get into and in the event you don't like it you've essentially wasted that money.

what are some AAAAA roguelikes

>>537931660
real life

>download Bright Night again to check out latest experimental builds
>hit random character
>spawn in a forest as a lactose-intolerant scaly mutant with snake tail and kung fu training
>kill a couple of lonely zombie dogs and grecks barehanded
>stumble through a dairy farm
>the owner gives me a quest to bring him 200 stones
>destroy all his windows and workshops for string and scrap metal (he doesn't care)
>craft a homewrecker and smash nearby boulders
>finally bring him the required rocks
>game crashes

>>537926808
the guaranteed skills are Shield and Intimidate from unique wardens, physics from the priest at the entrance of the Stilt, cooking from the monkey mayor of kyakuya, tinkering from the baratroonites, and dual wielding from the centaur village although for the last one you need to complete the most retarded """investigation""" quest to ever exist.

Then there is the secret underwater tunnel from red rock to joppa which spawns a guaranteed glowsphere, and if you explore the "Rusted Archway" you are guaranteed to find a special broken gate. it can be repaired and you can go inside if you dare, but it's pretty much guaranteed to teleport you to the right side of the map, where all high level enemies spawn.

What even is that time estimate
>>537933910
Reminds me of one quest where some group wants a bunch of planks to upgrade their fence... and the easiest way to get them is to just disassemble their existing fence right in front of them.

what's the endgame for Cataclysm: Bright Nights now? I got a char with 6k kills and maxed everything, pretty sure the NPC faction camps are still removed and I tried manually getting NPCs to build shit for me via zones and it was just too tedious, so wat do.
Roll a new char? suicide for the lab ending?

>>537938125
Currently, you can go to the refugee center and recruit all the racially-diverse npcs which were left behind by the bigoted chuds security guards and not allowed in the bunkers for not being white enough (actual lore of the game btw).
Recruit especially the family of five pajeets, the strong independent trans muslim welder girl and the schizophrenic who lives in a cardboard fort.
Then go north until you find Hyperborea and settle there.

>>537938125
It's open-ended, you kinda make up your own goals. End game state ideas have been tossed around, but aren't implemented so far

>>537939187
>Currently, you can go to the refugee center and recruit all the racially-diverse npcs
You can't recruit any of them except for the beggars who all are completely useless and crippled by their traits.

>>537941353
the bricklayer beggar is goated, I had him build pretty much an entire defensive wall while I forged melee weapons for the rest of my troop

Anyone else notice how sometimes shots will phase through zombies even with 100% chance of hitting in Cata TLG?

>>537934820
Fuck I'm just gonna die instead, that shit sounds hard.
(thanks)

>>537902228
>there are good spells in there
Not that I could find.

>>537954989
torment punch sounds pretty good against chunky targets.

>>537956123
>level 5 spell that takes (at least) 3 turns, in melee range, to damage one single target, and is unable to kill
I will admit that I have never once considered memorizing it, so maybe it plays a lot better than it looks.

Do recoilers use more charge if you activate them from the fucking inventory instead of using the ability?
I tried using fidget cells that were "full" (and hadn't been used at all, but sat on my arm for thousands of game turns) and they burned out

But when I wished in a visor to check that they were at 100% and slept them full, the Joppa recoiler worked just fine??

>>537966564
Well, who fucking knows.
Obviously I've got the Charging bonuses from Mauls from character creation, Jump and Pistols unlocked.

I'm getting into folded carbide axe/offhand dagger and two chrome pistols- Where do I start pushing from here? Any big fuckoff obvious skills to grab or can I kind of fill out axe/pistols and the defensive trees without worry?

>>537944713
over penetration

>>537971172
With 9mm hollow point? No way. Regardless it was a complete miss, since over penetration would still do some damage.

>>537969645
>wayfaring 1/10
Do you enjoy getting lost or something?

>>537979703
probably just prefers when the way isn't fair

I have a dwarf fort question. Many years ago when I played I remember having a mod which made it possible to see through multiple layers granted it was open air. I can’t seem to find it. Does anyone know what it’s called? The steam version seem to have it but I can’t stand the new music

>>537982830
I think you're talking about stonesense.
Never personally used it, but I remember a ton of people posting about it when it first became known to dfg

>>537969645
Axes are only good if you invest lots of strength from the character creation screen so you can get all the best skills early.
I say ditch the axe and use a sword instead in your main hand.
Then prioritize agility for all your future levelups and try to get cybernetics which either boost your agility, make you faster or give you more options for movement (i.e. teleport)

>>537983003
>>537982830
Scratch that, stonesense was to paint a 3d map.
Maybe it was DFhack

>>537982830
I remember that one two, I can't remember the name but I'm pretty sure it's in the LNP so you should be able to look it up.

>>537984183
>>537983273
Thanks! It’s definitely DFhack through the noob-pack

Holy shit
Ownfault, of course
I took the stairs down to the 3rd strata of Joppa without preemptively fucking... Blaze injecting or Sphynx salting, apparently
I'm so tilted, I'm Alt+F4ing and going to bed, the game doesn't even deserve the satisfaction of killing me

>>537979703
It's not even dangerous half the time?
I'm going to ownfault to a sleepy pig trying to zonebait it anyways.
Sooner or later I'll know the center of every worldmap anyways. What kind of rube gets lost that way?

Fallout roguelikes? Hello?

>>537998594
One of the CDDA branches. Don't ask me which one.
Next question
>Who's going to make the next thread?
(It would be pretty cool to have an actually nuclear themed apocalypse roguelike, not just "sometimes the zombies are radioactive." Running around zapping nerds with plasma guns, cracking open vaults. Maybe something like AlienRL?)

dcss invis has to be the most pitiful in all of gaming.
roughly everything explicitly sees invis, but if you find 1 of the 5 mobs that doesn't, it'll still 360 noscope you every turn all the way to max range.

>>537999124
Fallout Tactics roguelike
>fight raiders, tribals with psionic powers, super mutants, reavers and vault robots
>build your base and advance rank as a soldier of the Brotherhood

>>537997851
It can waste several minutes of real world time when you get lost because you're forced to roll RNG to get un-lost, and it definitely can be dangerous if you're traveling through an area that is higher level than your character. Wayfaring skills unlock the entire map for a low level character.

Getting lost just sucks. The map generation can place mountains along the bottom edge so that you spawn in the middle of the zone instead of the edge, or you can have strong monsters spawn on both sides of the edge where you spawn. Wayfaring skills also save you like 1 dram of water on every step you take on the world map. And it lets you travel to the Yd Freehold at level 10 if you feel like merchant scumming.

If you want to spend 200 hours on a single savefile and map out every world tile then you will have all the skills anyway so it's not like you're losing anything there either.

>>537999168
I just faulted the other day because of that.
>stabber stealth build
>get blinked into an orc mob by a phantom
>oh well this sucks, luckily I have my invisibility potion!
>drink potion
>run away
>everything just chases right after me, follows me up the stairs, and gangbangs me

>>537999168
>>538000356

why do these mechanics even exist? who is this game even meant to appeal to?

RIP
I kept running into ambushes in the caves coming back from data miner, then I hit 2 ambush traps in factory, the first one killed all my propulsion parts and the second one spawned melee bots trapping me in a corridor
Also I checked and the new faction I wanted to see is on the fucking earliest floors, ffs

>>538000356
>>stabber stealth build
This is a viable build now?

>>538005619
"See Invis" is a measure of enemy resistance, same as elemental resistances. The same is true for willpower. Invisibility is not actually there so that you can supplement your stabber build.

Instead, invisibility allows any melee character to approach an enemy without being seen and get a %damage buff for that combat, thus removing certain enemies from each branch, or at least rendering that enemy less of a threat. Similarly, low willpower means that any player with wands can paralyze, charm, or polymorph that enemy, and so either remove yet more enemies from the list of real threats in each branch or even use the sleeping enemy as a body blocker.

Paralysis is capable of effectively instantly killing an enemy. However, if you attempt to paralyze an enemy when they are already about to kill you, you'll still die a large percent of the time.

Fire can quickly kill an enemy who isn't resistant to it, but if you cast while being hit, eventually you'll fail and die.

Invis greatly increases your evasion and makes enemies uncertain of your location, but if you use it as a gamble while you run away, eventually you'll fail.

>also yore probably stupid
invis in clouds still shows the enemy where you are
invis in puddles still shows the enemy where you are
I'm sure there's other mistakes you could have made that would have given away your location.

>>537934820
>baratroonites

It's over

>>538008449
Not *really*. Stabbing things can't be your only gimmick later in the game because the enemies come in large groups and wake each other up. But if you play a stabber, you can get pretty far by stabbing things that make sense to stab, avoiding things that are too tough, and using consumables when your hand is forced.

Then you will find good weapons or spells to use later. You don't want to be a stabber forever, because eventually you have to kill things head on.

I think I'd really enjoying playing Dark Days Ahead bu the graphics put me off, especially the fact the characters have no animations

>>538022025
that's very funny

>>538022025
There's multiple tile options to try.

>>537938125
1. find the red central lab at the center of the map
2. goto the finale at the bottom
it has an victory win condition button inside

>>538020175
it never started

>>537999925
I'd wanted to visit the Yd Freehold earlier, too (just to tumble rocks I guess, because I'd been storing most of my value in gemstones from a merchant I'd found in some caves) but I didn't expect it'd be easy to get into- I figured I'd probably have to dive past dozens of high tier enemies, like with Grit Gate or some shit.

>>538044332
i like the cute plant girl merchant there that sells all the good shit

roguelikes are brown-coded

>>538053416
Or pooplikes, as I like to call them

>>538053416
No no no no no explain

"I think the immortal NPC in this roguelike is a good training dummy to test my damage output on"
"MMNNNOOOO you can't DO that you're a sick and twisted MONSTER these NPCs aren't there for your SICK FANTASIES, you fucking PERVERT"

The Qudmunnity at large is never going to beat the fuck allegations, lmao
inb4 leddit

Man is about to break some gangbang records.

>>538055507
Summons man, based
Show build pls

>>538056014
Here you go.

My arms seem to fall off the second I run into any enemy that isn't susceptible to trash can cheese in cata tlg.

>>538044332
It's all open and you can always buy a recoiler from one of the NPCs to get back there if you make the trip one time. It's even easier to get some sweet loot early if you have the cybernetic that identifies items in shops.

>>538054727
>and it's not even close
Thanks, Q-Girl!

>>538056464
Mmm, crowbeast
Hell yeah.
I like to win with lots of unspent Glory
But I also like to summon 20 familiars to dunk on the KoMC

anything new & exciting? anything upcoming? haven't really played or looked at any rogue(lites) since path of achra and rift wizard 2.

current playing the new siralim ultimate update. not rogue_ but it'd probably appeal to a path of achra enjoyer

I killed 400 reptiles in this lair and all I got was this fucking Hatter

>>538080046
"Sir this is an alligator farm, not a tailor's"

>>538080204
Alligator farm and now I've got entire land, sea and air honey farm. Great. This game is fucking stupid holy shit, I hate it here