Horizons is not bad by any means I actually quite like it but I do think Ash was the perfect main character for this type of show because of how formulaic it is. Ash also got casual people talking and I do think Horizons has a niche fanbase

>>57999192 (OP)
Stop putting fucking shorts on him

The problem is not ash, the problem is rica matdumoto was fired, they are not changing ash voice

>>57999206
>rica matdumoto was fired
What happened??

I'm glad A*h will never get to defile Arven's presense. Good riddance, rest in piss.

>>57999192 (OP)
The main advantage the ashnime has over Horizons is that the stakes feel way more realistic in context of the show (aside from the Team Rocket stuff and the occasional villain plot). So it's more relatable within the kodomo genre.

Ash wants to be a Champion, Ash participates in tournaments. So league battles, Gyms, adventures and stuff they all feel like they have actual meaning and weight to them regardless of OLM's reset strategies.

Whereas Horizons has a bit more seinen pretense to it which isn't bad in concept but in practice it turns out extremely bland because within a Pokemon kodomo show, the writers simply can't go out with any serious plots. There's no tournaments either.

And the kodomo genre doesn't allow for any peak romantic or action suspense since it's gotta be kid friendly.

So Horizons is like in this weird zone where it's supposedly for teens in concept but due to age ratings it can't deliver on that.

If they wanted the ashnime fans they would have got one ashnime character like aged up Max or Bonnie to be on the RVT team. But there's no ashnime characters sk they're not aiming for the ashnime audience either apparently?

Meanwhile it's too moody for actual kids? so the intended audience is kinda unclear.

>>57999192 (OP)
When will Pikachu evolve already?

>>57999227
Ash deserves better than being in a flopping mediocre anime like horizons anyways.

>>57999242
He doesn't deserve shit, he's a dogshit non-character that only self-inserting autistic manchildren care about

You're just poorly coping with the fact that he's gone lol, deal with it bitch nigga

>>57999192 (OP)
Jessie and James are lookin' kinda sexy ngl

>>57999247
uh oh, looks like somebody got angry from me hitting too close to home.... Come back to me when horizons surpass the highest ratings the ashime had.

>>57999257
I literally don't give a flying fuck about Horizons, I would forget it exists if I didn't see it sometimes on /vp/

Cute copium tho

>>57999192 (OP)
i don't really like most pokemon media because i think they're really boring. i thought origins was okay, but shorter anime like generations or evolutions are kind of a chore to watch, at least not to me but maybe it has its fans

however, there was recently a pokemon short released called "Chimchar & The Newbie Pokémon Researcher". this might not seem like much, but it was honestly the best pokemon media ive watched. it really did make pokemon feel real and mystical and it was explaining pokemon behaviors. i do recommend people watching it because that'll make my point much clearer

i think for a kodomo anime like pokemon, horizons doesn't really work. what i do think could've worked is in journeys, they sometimes had these episodes that were split into two different stories. i think if you have one focusing on journeying/collecting badges and a b story where its just studying pokemon and learning about them, i do think you'd have a formula that would still stick. its not the kind of anime id watch, but i do think it would generally just work for kids

i do think a lot of people especially the writers were sick of ash so have him grow up and hang around with the new kid or some shit like picrel

>>57999192 (OP)
I think they missed a great opportunity by not making this a school rivalry: Ash and Arven (with the SpongeBob and Squidward dynamic) against the crazy Mona and Smelly Penny, competing in treasure hunts and Pokémon battles where the winner could take the opposing team's treasure, only to introduce Kieran and Carmine as a third foreign school mid-season.

While this is happening in the background, the Team Star, Arven's parents, and the mystery of Area Zero plots are happening, with the occasional paradox slipping out.

>>57999294
I got sick reading this. Why would you want to ruin Arven's good story with this goofy cartoon shit? It's ridiculous and completely shits all over his character. What a garbage idea.

>>57999192 (OP)
Would be funnier if Penny was the female travelling companion, and Nemona mistakes Team Rocket for Ash's rivals and becomes obssessed with following them around to 'help' make them stronger.

>>57999284
2 social credits have been deposited into your account.

That dogshit hick from Pallet town became so inflated with each gen that it's a mercy kill to remove him.

They literally only addressed what he thinks means to be a Pokemon master at the very end of his time and they rectonned it into the most generic "Become everyone's friend" crap but the Pokemon edition.

And honestly, his fanbase became so fucking toxic and repetitive by shoving his ass in everywhere, even if it's just to start another Power level faggotry.

>>57999297
>Arven's story
>good
lmao
>What a garbage idea.
Just like Arven's "good" story.

>>57999310
It is a good story, probably the best GF has ever written. But I guess it's too complex for a komodo watching manchild like you, which is why you want to turn it into a SpongeBob cartoon.

>>57999294
If they were going to be their own thing like SM's perky Lusamine, then it would have been fun to see the real Sada and Turo being passionate scientists but terrible parents.

>>57999192 (OP)
> I do think Ash was the perfect main character for this type of show because of how formulaic it is
But it has to be framed as part of his long quest to become champion and, at that point, you get the old ashnime again.

>>57999229
>aside from the Team Rocket stuff
You mean what happens 99% of episodes?
>Ash wants to be a Champion
I thought he didn't?
>l feel like they have actual meaning and weight to them regardless of OLM's reset strategies
>they have weight regardless of them not having it
>Whereas Horizons has a bit more seinen pretense
It doesn't. Its a very by the numbers kid show and not even close to an edgy one. The problem is that you only experienced the ashnime and think you can supply a lifetime of non media experience by googling words like "kodomo" or "seinen".
>so the intended audience is kinda unclear.
To reasonable people its clear that its for kids.

Torture and kill all Ashschizos.

>>57999219
She did bad things and she used the ash image without permission and she has problem with the staff and other voice actors

>>57999192 (OP)
I was really excited for horizons before, but it got boring quickly, it felt more like a personal project with just a Pokemon skin, now I'd rather go back to the classic formula, it's a shame Nemona was wasted in this series.

>Likofags still seething about Ash after almost three years and can't even say his name without having a melty
Hahahaha, let's see how long this thread last by either them spamming the report button or some unnatural push to other threads

>>57999468
but they still win because ash is not coming back

>>57999468
Ok can you explain the obsession with Likofags? The only deleted posts I see in the archives are from the Voreschizo and a few anti unova loaded posts since the mods have given up since July.

>>57999478
>but they still win because ash is not coming back
We know that but they still go around comparing the new cast to Ash to say they're better for some reason

Liko is just too boring to watch. We want spunky Ash

>>57999505
Weirdly enough, the mentions of Ash in Horizons-centric threads have plummeted over the months so you're wrong.

>>57999192 (OP)
>da Jessie hips
damn, son

>>57999494
They're mad that ash isn't there anymore. It isn't anything about Liko. These threads are always made by ashfags and then claim they aren't the ones seething.

Ban jobbed to a serious Akabane at the end of the manga tho

I wonder if the anime would still do well if Ash was just Goku, getting stronger with every passing Gen.

>>57999192 (OP)
>Horizons is not bad by any means
Why are you lying? Are you afraid of being attacked by Horizonfags? Because there is practically nothing that make Horizons stand out outside of it being a Pokemon anime.

>ashfags are so retarded they can't even recognize each other

>>57999554
I think that's the problem. Horizont isn't a bad anime per se, but it is a bad Pokemon anime.

Change Liko and co.'s setting, for example, setting it in Digimon world, and it would be better since Digimon gives more weight to its human characters, while Pokemon is more about the Pokemon and their worldbuilding.

>>57999247
>He doesn't deserve shit, he's a dogshit non-character

Nice way to describe every OC on Pokemon Horizon.
Unlike them, Ash is an actual character that goes to character development & hard work to earn everything unlike Roy, Liko & Alain who gets everything handed to them.

Do you think you have any right call others Self inserting autistic manchild after defending Roy becoming champion level Offscreen?

>>57999563
> it is a bad Pokemon anime
The main example of a pokemon anime prior to Horizon was literally the worst product of the entertainment industry.

>>57999567
Alain was from the ashnime, you completely lost it.

>>57999494
>since the mods have given up since July.
Because they realized that Pokemon Horizon has crossed a line when they forced Nemona to job to Roy.

>>57999567
>after defending Roy becoming champion level Offscreen
You complained about that prior to the timeskip though.

>>57999574
Don't talk to me with your false history, Fagmon. Work on getting a job first so you can stop being homeless instead of wiping out bullshit that can be refuted with the archive

>>57999494
Ragebaiters have taken the shitposting and antagonizing of posters too far, no one outside of one low cap sperg is biting it anymore and now blame Likofags for slowly getting Horizons the Unova treatment on this board. Really says a lot that the average response to someone saying they like the current anime is either misinterpreting on purpose, accusing someone of lying for having a different opinion or just derailing it into meta territory.

Doesn't help that a ESL lolcow who got kicked out of his home two years ago due to completely wasting the time on starting serieswars between the two eras out of bitterness that the old era is over. I legit don't even talk about the old one anymore because that Lolcow rolls in, throws a tantrum that dates back through Google searches into 2020.

>>57999563
i think the reason why the anime benefitted from having ash is because the plots were so simple most of the time. ash is so simple and bland that you can do almost anything with him and people will still tune in to see him lose or win. he's also very easy to talk about, good or bad. his pikachu was both very cute and very cool. team rocket were such formulaic villains but they had depth and character and in the same way, they were sort of ash's counterparts. these characters really did make pokemon of the day stand out or whatever gimmick pokemon was introducing at the time

you kinda hit the nail on the head when you say these feel more like digimon world, because there's nothing really to talk about despite them having so much character development for a setting like the pokemon anime thats for young japanese kids it just doesn't really work

i hate to say it but i think the next pokemon anime would ironically enough benefit from having a blank slate like ash again. its sad that there isn't a proper pokemon show that older viewers can get invested in

>>57999563
>Horizont isn't a bad anime per se, but it is a bad Pokemon anime.
Low budget animation, uninteresting premise, bland characters, boring stories, zero humor, no competition, zero humor, , total disrespect toward the game and absolutely nothing to hook people into watching them.

Pokemon Horizons reached every measurement of a bad anime, Its like insisting Mayoiga The Lost Village is not a bad anime.

>Change Liko and co.'s setting, for example, setting it in Digimon world
It would have sucked even harder considering Liko , Roy and the entire RVT are even worst than Davis and Yorlei.

>>57999601
>ash is so simple and bland that you can do almost anything with him
Not really, as he has a set goal that he has to make measurable progress towards.

>ts sad that there isn't a proper pokemon show that older viewers can get invested in
Horizon isn't for older viewers its, as you said, for young kids.

Pretending to be reasonable wont hide the obvious.

>>57999605
nice google skills

>>57999607
>Not really, as he has a set goal that he has to make measurable progress towards.
So does Goku, Luffy, Conan , Nobita .

>Horizon isn't for older viewers its, as you said, for young kids.
Young kids must be super excited to find out the mystery of Rakulium. Oh wait, young kids does not have the attention span to care about mysteries.

>>57999607
>Not really, as he has a set goal that he has to make measurable progress towards
not counting journeys, ash always had a goal that reflected what was advertised from the games. liko and roy just sort of go all over the place and there's not really anything to take away from it. they have a goal, it just doesn't reflect the games and i think that's kind of an issue when you make an anime about the games you're supposed to promote for 5 to 10 year old japanese children

i do think journeys had the benefit of being very episodic because i don't think a lot of children really give a shit about the mystery of horizons

>>57999571
>Alain was from the ashnime, you completely lost it.
Alain was the modern writers OC that they tried to set as the protagonist like Liko & Roy. In fact Alain was the red flag on how bad Horizon going to be.

>>57999618
> Goku, Luffy
Goku's story ended and Luffy's clearly will.
>Nobita
doesn't. Googling the names of the MCs of long anime was never an argument anon.

>young kids does not have the attention span to care about mysteries.
young kids are smarter than you are.

>>57999634
>not counting journeys, ash always had a goal that reflected what was advertised from the games.
Every time he lost you claimed his actual goal was beyond winning the league though.

> liko and roy just sort of go all over the place and there's not really anything to take away from it.
You outright didn't watch the show.

>t just doesn't reflect the games and i think that's kind of an issue when you make an anime about the games you're supposed to promote for 5 to 10 year old japanese children
And yet their games are the second most sold pair of games.

>>57999635
Ash is literally an OC though. He can't be Red as he beats the Kanto league and he can't be every other MC as they (actually) start anew. So I don't see what issue you have with OCs.

>>57999567
Ash has literally no character development because he needs to be eternally 10

And again, I don't give a flying fuck about Horizons, but apparently they aged if I remember correctly so that's already a step forward lol

>>57999636
>>57999643
Don't bother. You're wasting your time on a Lolcow who got evicted for being a NEET.

Pokemon is fundamentally incapable of having an ongoing narrative in animated format with good characters period because it has to maintain a reputation of being sanitized and inoffensive in almost all regards, and each media is designed to be an advertisement for other media, merchandise especially, rather than being an entertaining piece of media.
And even then, media that isn't as pressured, like PokeSpe, has its own issues with quality because of Pokemon's overall rigidity in how you're allowed to depict its world and write characters who live in it, so you'll never truly get a compelling story that feels satisfactory from start to finish unless you get a REALLY good writer to make a solid fanfic.

>>57999636
>Goku's story ended
When?

>Luffy's clearly will.
Do you seriously think Japan anime industry will ever shut down an IP like One Piece?Grow up will ya!
> Nobita
Yes he does.
His entire goal is to secure his future with Shizuka even if that mean competing with Dekisugi. Actually it more compelling goal than Liko journey to learn about her super special bloodline.

>young kids are smarter
I never said they are dumb, i said they does not have the attention span to care about mystery.

>>57999192 (OP)
I fucking hate Ashfaggots so fucking much

>>57999601
>next pokemon anime would ironically enough benefit from having a blank slate like ash again
The Chinese are two steps ahead. In that country, Goh and Horizont's characters failed spectacularly, to the point that they said, "If you're not going to bring Ash back, we'll make our own."

>>57999643
>Ash has literally no character development because he needs to be eternally 10
Yet he still had more character development in 10 episodes than Liko and Roy in the entire Horizons saga.

>but apparently they aged if I remember correctly so that's already a step forward.

If you think a character reaching champion level by training offscreen is character development than you know nothing about writing.

>>57999192 (OP)
Ash was a failure of a character and he's dead and retired, cope nigga

>>57999650
>When?
'95.
>Do you seriously think Japan anime industry will ever shut down an IP like One Piece?
Who said anything about the IP?
>Grow up will ya!
You wasted 20+ years because you couldn't let go of your childhood hero.
>His entire goal is to secure his future with Shizuka even if that mean competing with Dekisugi
How does he measure his progress towards this?
> i said they does not have the attention span to care about mystery.
One of the anime shows you googled is, literally, about misteries. Another one has multiple misteries throgout its plotline.
I don't have to tell you which is one, given you actually watched them instead of just googling them right?

>>57999219
Drug abuse

>>57999669
>reaching champion level by training offscreen
NTA but again, according to you, that happened prior to the timeskip.

>>57999642
i said that as a character, you can do almost anything with him. he can win the league, collect z-crystals and in journeys case win the master league whatever that shit is. his character is actually a really good way of progressing a kodomo anime like the pokemon series that promotes the games. his show was half of the time episodic, which meant you can tune in and kind of follow the story of the day while he still in the background has a clear goal.

as a pokemon anime, i don't think children really care about liko's story or the progress. horizon is fun, i just don't think it works for a kid audience in 2025

>>57999666
i actually brought this up as an example earlier. this and pokemon concierge are unironically the best media ive ever seen

>>57999660
They're very clearly just mentally 10 year old manchildren who want to see their self-insert go on adventures, they contribute fucking nothing to this board other than constant spergouts
Hate these retards

Rest in Piss Assh, same to your retarded self inserts too who thought he was going to end up with the many girls he traveled with, just for it to end with him giving backshots ro his Pikachu KEK

>>57999681
>his show was half of the time episodic, which meant you can tune in and kind of follow the story of the day while he still in the background has a clear goal.
That clear goal he kept selling you faux progress towards to.
Just because you repeat the word "kodomo anime" doesn't mean you know anything about actual ones.

>>57999669
No retard, Ash has no character development at all, his character resets all the time and only has the most basic traits that don't develop because he's made to sustain a status quo cause there is no plot
I don't care about your delusional fanfics, he's a bland ass character by design, and that's why he's retired and will never come back
Keep malding, dumbass

>Ash
>Character Development
HOLY FUCKING KEK, Ashfags are delusional

>>57999672
>'95.
Dragonball GT, Super, Heroes and Daima says hi.

>Who said anything about the IP?
One Piece one of the biggest entertainment IP on Japan. Even if Mangaka ends the manga, the publisher and Studio will keep it running.

>You wasted 20+ years because you couldn't let go of your childhood hero
I don't need to hear that from somebody talking about the same anime on /vp/.

>How does he measure his progress towards this?
By improving himself, there are many chapters on Nobita trying to be the worthy man for Shizuka.

>One of the anime shows you googled is, literally, about misteries

Which one ? Doraemon? Its a gag anime about a robot giving futuristic gadget to a boy. Onepiece? Its a shonen about a guy & his crew fighting evil pirates to become pirate king. Dragonball? Its about a guy call Goku achieving new transformation to fight new villain.

Horizons seems to have the same issue that made me drop Journeys: a shitton of OCs (picrel) and ignoring the game's characters and Pokémon almost completely

>>57999650
>When?
End of Z, which is still the canonical endpoint of the series, and will likely remain that way indefinitely as they continue to make new "in-between" stories that take place after the defeat of Majin Buu and the very end where Goku takes Uub under his wing.
Even amidst all the other worlds, gods, multiverses and all that shit, it still comes back to the humbleness of earth where Goku fulfills his vow to meet Buu again and finally completes his journey as the master now becomes the teacher for the next generation.

>>57999679
>that happened prior to the timeskip.
Which happened Offscreen.
Its like those fantasy anime where protagonist trains only on one episode offscreen during Timeskip and rest of the series focus on how cool and strong he became offscreen.

>It's the Sperg vs ESLschizoid again
Can the mods step in and ban both of them already? This crap is getting nowhere and the latter turd is just obsessed with having his safe space of retardation on 4chan.

>>57999701
>Dragonball GT, Super, Heroes and Daima says hi.
Those are spinoffs. The story of Goku ended. You can't see the diference because you're a consoomer.
>One Piece one of the biggest entertainment IP on Japan.
I know anon, I didn't need to look it up on wikipedia.

>I don't need to hear that from somebody talking about the same anime on /vp/.
I'm criticizing the ashnime.

>By improving himself, there are many chapters on Nobita trying to be the worthy man for Shizuka.
You didn't answer the question.

>Which one ?
You'd know which if you actually watched any of them instead of bringing them up each time someone criticizes your self-insert character.

>>57999711
The mods love watching these melties, they won't do shit about it.
/vp/ is a schizo containment board, and if they booted these kinds of posters off of /vp/, they'd harass other boards fulltime.

>>57999709
>Which happened Offscreen.
No, the fight with Geeta happened very much onscreen.

Believe in DotLiko.

>>57999713
Those specific melties ITT got deleted in the past and were met with site-bans and not board-bans, your case isn't applying here.

>>57999721
And yet they come crawling back eventually, allowed to spew their shit yet again because no one wants to bite the bullet and make it a permaban.

>>57999715
Honestly I don't see why you continue attempting to make sense of a retard. It's a waste of time and he'll just perform mental gymnastics anyway.

>>57999720
I believe in Meowscarada x Liko.

>>57999695
>Ash has no character development at all,
Keep telling yourself this won't make it true.

>his character resets all the time
Only time that happened was during BW series.

>cause there is no plot
Do you think plot ever matter in any anime? What truly matters is an interesting premise with compelling characters which Ashnime delivered.

Just look around yourself.
Shows like Doraemon, Youkai Watch, Original Pokeani and Phineas & Ferb become popular despite having no plot while shows like Cardfight Vanguard, Puzzle & Dragon Cross, Gyrosetter and Shadowforce flopped despite being serious & plot driven.

>>57999725
> don't see why you continue attempting to make sense of a retard
Because most here actually think the same way.

>>57999712
>Those are spinoffs. The story of Goku ended
Now you are just using headcanon.

>I know anon
I don't think you know

>I'm criticizing the ashnime
You mean an anime for children.

>You didn't answer the question.
I did but you did not pay attention.

>You'd know which
And I proven all of them to be not about mystery.

>>57999734
>Because most here
You don't speak for others, retard. Take a hike with your leaps of tard logic.

>>57999192 (OP)
Unironically why would I, or any other adult, care about an anime made for 6-12 year old boys?
>inb4 "the games are for kids too"
The games have depth that is appealing to adults because of their gameplay mechanics that are complex enough that adults can compete in tournaments. The Ashnime was a Saturday morning cartoon to keep little kids entertained and to make them buy toys.

>>57999737
>Now you are just using headcanon.
Nigga, 2 of them literally take place prior to the manga ending.
>I don't think you know
Then quote where I said One Piece is unpopular.
>You mean an anime for children.
Yes
>I did but you did not pay attention.
Where? Please point out when you said how Nobita measures his progress.
>And I proven all of them to be not about mystery.
Which is factually wrong.

>>57999740
If most people didn't then the ashnime would've been laughed off here since the start of /vp/.

>>57999745
>The games have depth that is appealing to adults because of their gameplay mechanics that are complex enough that adults can compete in tournaments.
...Mechanics the games themselves are afraid to express in the main campaign in fear of alienating the lowest common denominator who buys them, meaning you'll only experience those mechanics in PVP, and at that point, you should just play Showdown instead.

The only way to make Horizon interesting -

> Spinel announce a team tournament to promote Strong Sphere.
> Liko, Roy and Dot form a team.
> Gets knocked out in the first round by Nemona, Penny and Arven.
> The story shifts to Uruto who join a team with Emma and a masked boy voiced by Rica Matsumoto with a Pikachu who also wants to stop distribution of strong sphere.
> The story become more like Gundam Build Fighters and Beyblade X.

>bayblade x
Another flop

>>57999192 (OP)
Gross

Idc the tranime but good ash was removed, ashkek deserve it

Why some people refuses to let Ash go?

To think, none of this ESL autism would exist today if that one faggot with ultimate authority didn't keep insisting that Ash HAD to stay a fixture of the anime for all those prior years and just let the boy fuck off after Johto.
His character was basically good as done there, he made significant progress as a person, improved his skills to earn the respect from his most problematic teammates like Charizard, and most importantly, buried the hatchet with Gary, the ultimate show of growth on Ash's part. That was the reason he turned into a bland shitcake afterwards, because he matured and subsequently became boring for it.
Hoenn would've went way better if we got a whole new cast with the actual game characters, with whole new lessons to learn and approaches to familiar goals, and then you could repeat the cast swapping for every successive region.

>>57999747
>manga
Which still continue and confirmed Gohan Beast to be stronger than full powered Broly.

>Then quote where I said One Piece is unpopular.
When did I said you called One Piece to be unpopular?

>Yes

And you think you are different than all of us talking about the same anime.

>Please point out when you said how Nobita measures his progress.

By actually rescuing her from snowstorm .

>Which is factually wrong.

And what fact is that?

>>57999750
And what does that have to do with the anime being for little kids? Retarded deflection.

>>57999192 (OP)
The problem is that they replace Ash with Ash but brown

>>57999771
>ultimate authority didn't keep insisting that Ash HAD to stay a fixture of the anime
You mean the same authority that believes Pokemon games should have poor graphics despite being multi million franchise and keep releasing glitchy unfinished game because they want to maintain three year circle?

>>57999777
That's reason he was removed , ash is too white for nu Pokemon

>>57999770
Unironically autism. Autists hate change, and are often mentally still children. So they can't deal with Ash being gone cause they were obsessed with him their whole life. Now their "special interest" is gone and they can't deal with it and can't move on.

>>57999770
Because they does not want boring pokemon anime about current writers OC getting everything fall out of sky for them while more interesting game characters are treated poorly.

>>57999783
How? I grwp up watching the Pokemon anime until xy I honestly didn't feel anything when he was replaced, the anime wasn't even good.

>>57999772
>By actually rescuing her from snowstorm
Why didn't the show end there?
>And what fact is that?
That Detective Conan is literally about the MC solving multiple misteries.

You very clearly never watched anime without Ash, and know of them as things you always bring up to defend ash because otherwise, you have no basis to defend the ashnime on.

>>57999780
Not a damn clue on the exact details there, all I know is according to the Teraleak, literally EVERYONE wanted to retire Ash, but weren't allowed to because the one guy who has the final say in the matter refused any attempts to let him go, and it's literally only because of how catastrophic the Kalos League was and how poorly-received his concession win in the Alola League was that they finally set him up to become the literal world's strongest trainer in Journeys, that way they couldn't POSSIBLY keep following his quest to become a Pokemon Master because you can't go higher than that in terms of thrills and action.

>>57999791
Could you reword that in english?

>>57999795

Conan has a strong fanbase too and most of them are female now fujos, in fact there is nip thread about how Pokemon anime is a failure because the male characters (include ash)are not actratives for women

>deflecting THIS hard

>>57999796
>literally EVERYONE wanted to retire Ash
You mean those who refused to improve the game or wants to shove their self inserted OC to wish fulfillment out of them. Since Yuyama's new anime was more well received than Horizon, he had the last laugh.

>>57999808
This?

>>57999808
Link, sounds fun

>>57999833
https://pokemonbbs.com/sp/post/read.cgi?no=2329657

>>57999795
>Why didn't the show end there?
The same reason Dragonball did not end after Goku winning the World Martial Art Tournament or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle could not end Sherlock Holmes story even after killing him off.

Hack Doraemon was supposed to end with the chapter "Goodbye Doraemon" but people keep asking for more Doraemon.

>That Detective Conan is literally about the MC solving multiple misteries
Its a shonen anime , not children anime.

>You very clearly never watched anime without Ash
I don't need to hear that from somebody who think Detective Conan is a children anime.

>>57999826
Why would ladis would want a 10 year old?

>Least autistic thread on /vp/

>bring up Conan as an example every time the ashnime is criticized
>suddenly, its not an example anymore

>>57999844
This, different audience most of Conan audience are female

>>57999844
>bring up Conan as an example
For long running anime where the main characters are still ageless and nowhere close to reach their goal.

>>57999837
Thanks brah

>>57999849
Its audience its mostly female. Therefore, its not actually a long running anime where the MC isn't close to reach their goal.

>>57999856
>Its audience its mostly female
So? It is still a long running anime where the protagonist still haven't reached his goal and none of the characters ages.
At least Pokemon was a kids anime so characters being ageless is common among children show.

>>57999866
>So? It is still a long running anime where the protagonist still haven't reached his goal and none of the characters ages.
The fact that the audience is mostly female makes that not the case. Either the characters aged or the MC is close to reach his goal.

>>57999837
They are not wrong every shonen is popular because women jjk, blue lock, naruto, the most popular thing Pokemon had with female nips was raihan x leon

>>57999874
No the fact is that Detective Conan is more serious plot driven series yet it haven't even reached its end. Compared to that Pokemon was always a lighthearted comedy adventure anime for kids.

>>57999898
For retards even kids don't like it

>>57999898
Conan has a female audience though

>>57999875
Why do you think Pokémon is clearly trying to pander more to female audiences in recent times? It's pretty evident

>>57999219
she didn't pay a parking fine

>>57999206
In the leak Ohmori and Sugimori didn't care about Rica or any production drama, if they will it his VA would change or use an english one

> Ash, Iono, Larry with a Koraidon explore the region. Ash wants to fight strong trainers while Iono is drooling at the views she can get by streaming the shit he stirs while Larry is there to make sure "the world champion" is kept happy in the region.
>Other side you can have Juliana, Penny and Arven with Miraidon. Juliana and Nemona as Ash's rivals.
I think something like this could work, gives Ash freedom to dick around in paldea while occasionally crossing paths with the main game characters.

>>57999601
>its sad that there isn't a proper pokemon show that older viewers can get invested in
how about that live action series of the girl that enters corporate and associates pokémon with the people she interacts with? Is that series good or bad? Forgot its name.

>>57999192 (OP)
HZ would be doing excellently if weren't for the suits' meddling. Specially what they did with Roy.
TPC pretty much set the show to fail, and still manages to be a solid 7/10.

>>57999601
Ash messing around in Paldea with Latias would have been cute. Also could have fun interactions between Latias and Koraidon.

>>58000260
>ow about that live action series of the girl that enters corporate and associates pokémon with the people she interacts with?
The anon you replied to doesn't actually want an adult pokemon show.

>TPC pretty much set the show to fail,
Source?

>>57999703
>OCs
I'm going to take the bait, you're too far gone but I'll leave a message anyway, at least in hopes some slightly saner lurker changes his mind.
God I fucking hate that autistic obsession with repeating up the same story with the same characters. If you want to follow the game gang's adventures play the fucking games and I say this as someone who loves the game gang.
Surely I'd watch a show focused in them and I like seeing them animated from time to time. But I get the anime staff wanting to show a different take on the Pokéverse with a familiar cameo here and there. That's a lot less restrictive.
All the classic game-based anime characters you're familiar with are essentially OCs with a familiar skin, because for the longest time game characters hardly had any personality or development. Brock's horniness? OC. His entire family? OCs. Misty's fear of bugs? OC. May's bond with Manaphy? OC, they weren't even in the same fucking game. Dawn's Coordinator dreams? OC. Almost everything except their design is OC, Ash himself is an OC. You can't even make an anime without it being 90% OC.

>>58000247
You should unironically just fuck off and write some fanfics instead of seething on 4chan, it's clearly all you think about and no one here cares about your self-fullfillment fantasies

>>58000247
Fuck Horizonfags but you're not better, Ash doesn't want to fight anymore

>>58000389
Lol why the hostility anon?

>>58000400
You messed with his hero.

>>58000304
NTA but look at the examples you gave, Misty and Brock in the games are a two minute fight and you never see them again but the anime gave them personality, goals and quirky traits that made them memorable, same with every other region up until Journeys.
What did we get in Journeys? A character who forced the anime to change its rules so it could shill pokemon go while his team was just the galar starters (which replaced the one before them) and a girl who dumped her galar pokemon for another fucking eevee. Ash's team had two new pokemons and a vast majority of galarian pokemon and characters went unused. Same thing is happening with Horizon to a degree. They added too many original characters, with barely any new pokemon on their teams.

>>58000260
>how about that live action series of the girl that enters corporate and associates pokémon with the people she interacts with? Is that series good or bad? Forgot its name.
Poketsume.
It's good, but it's also written for actual adults and not for manchildren.

Don't show him this quote.

>>57999192 (OP)
Pokémon needs to stop trying to make a school setting work. I know Japan has a nostalgic fixation on compulsory education in its media, but Christ, trying to make the game/anime something so mundane will never stop being retarded and gay.

>>58000648
>T. School dropout

>>58000622
Nice.

>>58000490
>NTA but look at the examples you gave, Misty and Brock in the games are a two minute fight and you never see them again but the anime gave them personality, goals and quirky traits that made them memorable, same with every other region up until Journeys.
But that's kinda my point, game characters aren't fleshed out enough and the anime has to write them almost entirely - making them effectively OCs in all but design. So bitching about OCs is essentially retarded

>They added too many original characters, with barely any new pokemon on their teams
now this is a very fair point, but putting already existing game characters wouldn't really solve it. Would Journeys be better if Chloe was literally Gloria, and Goh was literally Hop? Would HZ be better if Liko was literally Juliana, Roy was literally Nemona, Dot was literally Penny etc? You get the gist.

That's what I'm arguing about, the mindless "OC OC OC" schizo rambling. The anime always has been 90% OC.

i'm writing a pokemon story that is better than both Ashanime and Likoanime

bump

>>57999192 (OP)
>Pikachu still isn't a Raichu
>Jessie has short hair and man lips
Thank goodness this isn't real.

>>57999601
How much longer are you going to live in your shiczo fantasy world?

>>57999745
Still waiting for a valid answer, faggots. Too scared to reply to me because you'd have to admit you're legit manchildren?

>>57999192 (OP)
The moment the anime shove a Lucario on Roy and insist he became champion level like Ash OFFSCREEN, they acknowledged Pokemon Horizon needed Ash.

>>57999607
>he has a set goal that he has to make measurable progress towards.
Not really his one goal was becoming a "pokemon master" and yeah you could say he completed his goal by becoming a champion but it's not like that means he's a pokemon master he's just a champion now. Ash's journey has always been the metaphor "there's always a bigger fish" just like goku he might've beaten Leon but that doesn't mean he's the strongest he's not a pokemon master he just completed a step towards his goal

>>58002206

Lets be honest , Ash can continuously run as the protagonist as long as writers comes up with new reason for him to catch new pokemon and introduce new opporent for him to battle.

Anipoke also does not need to introduce trainer stronger than him as long as they put up a good fight. There are already many many NPC from the game that can serve as Ash's challenge, there are also characters from past anime like Alain & AJ for him to battle. Once in a while they can introduce One or two opponent that are stronger such as Nemona, AI Saba/Turo , Lucius, Gibeon, Tobias , Ange etc etc for Ash to surpass.

>>58000247
I just want to see Ash interact with Nemona and Arveen, and Peony since they have similar personalities.

Penny and Peonia can rot in oblivion.

>>58000389
>Ash doesn't want to fight anymore
Do even know Ash at all?

>>57999192 (OP)
Problem with Ash was that he already was well developed character that had nothing really new to do except doing circles and going through the same motions over and over again. Writers actually tried to reset him in BW (but it imploded after multiple dropped plotlines) and SM (which was kino af but Pokemon fans are retarded and called it bad).
The ONLY way to preserve Ash would be pushing him to the side and turning into mentor character for someone else. They tried it with Goh, but Goh fucking sucks.

>>57999601
Ash is not bland, or at least he initially was not.
He's immature, moody, impulsive, naive... he's a kid. But he also was showing a lot of creativity in dealing with problems and genuine good will and care.
Issue is that with him growing up and developing, he was losing all these things and it was replaced with very generic "talented kid". Pokemon truly would be better with new mcs in every new series. Starting with new kid with new set of issues, goals and possibilities would feel Pokemon less stale, even if formula would be the same.

>>58004316
>Problem with Ash was that he already was well developed character that had nothing really new to do
That's basically every long running protagonist such as Goku , Conan , Luffy etc etc.

>The ONLY way to preserve Ash would be pushing him to the side and turning into mentor character for someone else
Pokémon Horizon has proven that Anipoke needs a protagonist that is already experienced and strong from the start like Ash Ketchum. Specially if they wanted to make stories about finding ancient ruins or stop forces of evil.

>>58004313

>Problem with Ash was that he already was well developed character that had nothing really new to do
That's basically every long running protagonist such as Goku , Conan , Luffy etc etc.

>The ONLY way to preserve Ash would be pushing him to the side and turning into mentor character for someone else
Pokémon Horizon has proven that Anipoke needs a protagonist that is already experienced and strong from the start like Ash Ketchum. Specially if they wanted to make stories about finding ancient ruins or stop forces of evil.

>>58004316

>Pokemon truly would be better with new mcs in every new series. Starting with new kid with new set of issues, goals and possibilities would feel Pokemon less stale
No it would not and the formula only worked because of Ash.
The idea that a newbie trainer with his very first Pokémon defeating gym leader that are supposed to be more experienced and skilled than ordinary trainers may make sense in the game which meant to be a wish fulfillment media but in the anime it doesn't work and makes the protagonist look like a Mary Sue. This is why Ash mostly received pity badges until he gained enough experience and character development to defeat gym leaders on Johto but this something they can't do with every protagonist.

The only reason you think this to be a good idea because you keep seeing Pokémon to be like Yugioh where every new protagonist is either a cheater or mary sue prodigy. The same thing also applies to Pokespe where every protagonist is a prodigy and already has Pokémon before receiving their starter.

Ash is dead

>>58002206
according to >>57999229 his goal was to be a champion.
Make up your minds.

>>58004437
> Goku , Conan , Luffy
Those are shonen MCs, not kodomo. COnan also has a big female audience.

>>58004510
>and the formula only worked because of Ash
What formula? Ash's problem is that they tried to do 2 different formulas with him making neither work.

>The idea that a newbie trainer with his very first Pokémon defeating gym leader that are supposed to be more experienced and skilled than ordinary trainers may make sense in the game
You don't play the games, but the leaders scale down according to the amount of badges the challenger has. Also, anime can also be wish fullfilment media.

>but this something they can't do with every protagonist
They can't do it with ash because he has to get above the point where a gym battle is any challenge. You've been wanking him being "frontier level" for decades.

>>58004530
Watch how the homeless ESL will twist the narrative to somehow fit his retarded view.

>>58004530
>>58004537
Watch how the homeless ESL will twist the narrative to somehow fit his retarded view.

You're wasting your time on a lolcow.

>>58004511
And I dance on his grave every day

>>58004437
>That's basically every long running protagonist such as Goku , Conan , Luffy etc etc.
All still alive and kicking as the head of their animes while Ash is 6 feet under kek

>>58004530
And what is the longest running kids anime? Oh its Doraemon. How many protagonist did Doraemon had?

>>58004537
>Ash's problem is that they tried to do 2 different formulas with him making neither work.
The very fact he was protagonist for 26 years proves the formula worked.

>You don't play the games, but the leaders scale down according to the amount of badges the challenger has.
That's simply game logic
> Also, anime can also be wish fullfilment media.
Only if you like boring wish fulfillment anime where protagonist gets everything handed to them.

>They can't do it with ash
They already done with Ash and Misty on MPM.

>because he has to get above the point where a gym battle is any challenge
Now whose playing the game? We live in an era where E4 member (Larry) and Champion tier trainer (Raihan) acts as the gym leader so there always be challenges for Ash.

After all, the anime doesn't need every trainer to be stronger than Ash to be a challenge. They just has to be good enough to put up a good fight like how Kathy did against Rika specially when Ash using brand new Pokémon.

>>58004558
We know Liko, but that wont make your show more popular

>>58004674
But Nobita wasn't brought up in that post.
>>58004683
>The very fact he was protagonist for 26 years proves the formula worked.
But you also cry le yuyama every time we criticize Ash though?
>That's simply game logic
Not really, Cheren said so in b2w2. Its an in-universe part of the lore.
>Only if you like boring wish fulfillment anime where protagonist gets everything handed to them.
So wish fulfillment can be in anime, gotcha.
>They already done with Ash and Misty on MPM.
so Ash doesn't actually develop as a trainer?
>We live in an era where E4 member (Larry) and Champion tier trainer (Raihan) acts as the gym leader so there always be challenges for Ash.
But you insisted Frontier Brain was above those, why did that change now?

>>58004689

>But Nobita wasn't brought up in that post
You wanted to hear the name of the Kodomo protagonist and I gave you somebody that lasted longer than any Kodomo anime protagonist.

>But you also cry le yuyama every time we criticize Ash though?
When did I mentioned Yuyama?

>Not really, Cheren said so in b2w2
Do you honestly think a kid who just received his first pokemon few hours ago can beat Cheren even if he too use his newer pokemon? Cheren has to be really pathetic for that to happen.
Even the people who animated B2W2 promo understood this which is why Rosa challenged him with Serperior instead of a Snivy.

Not to mention Gym leaders always use their actual ace in gym battle on anime.

>So wish fulfillment can be in anime
Yes , a very flop anime that is forgotten and hardly watched by anybody.
>But you insisted Frontier Brain was above those
Yet Ash still struggled against Sinnoh gym leader even after conquering Battle Frontier.

>>57999192 (OP)
Ash should had be left after indigo

>>58004522
His goal since the beginning was becoming a pokemon master, becoming champion was kind of a stepping stone towards his main goal it's like luffy's dream of becoming king of the pirates finding the one piece would help him achieve his goals like ash becoming champion would help achieve his "pokemon master" goal

>>58004713
>You wanted to hear the name of the Kodomo protagonist
I just said that Goku Conan and Luffy are MCs of shonen shows, I didn't ask for that.
Much like you, I also have access to Google.
>Do you honestly think a kid who just received his first pokemon few hours ago can beat Cheren even if he too use his newer pokemon?
Yes, that's the point of them explaining that in-universe.

> Gym leaders always use their actual ace in gym battle on anime.
That makes the ashinme the wish-fulfilment fantasy then.

>Yet Ash still struggled against Sinnoh gym leader even after conquering Battle Frontier
So Ash didn't develop, gotcha.

>>58004747
You don't need to be a champion to want to befriend every pokemon anon.
Its why they did that retcon in SM, prior to Ash even winning the Alola league.
Liko isn't a champion at all and already settled for a similar goal in much less time.

>>58004807
>I just said that Goku Conan and Luffy are MCs of shonen shows
And point out they aren't Kodomo protagonist so I gave you a Kodomo protagonist.

>Yes, that's the point of them explaining that in-universe.
That does not explain how an experienced and accomplished trainers like gym leader would lose to a newbie with lvl 5 pokemon,

>that makes the ashinme the wish-fulfilment fantasy then.
Ashnime is the opposite which is why Horizonfags hates it.

>So Ash didn't develop

Means the gym leader aren't some joke that suppose to lose to a newbie with lvl 5 pokemon.

>>58004936
>And point out they aren't Kodomo protagonist so I gave you a Kodomo protagonist.
Which doesn't change anything as you're the one that has issues with that.
>That does not explain how an experienced and accomplished trainers like gym leader would lose to a newbie with lvl 5 pokemon,
It outright does to people reasonable enough not to waste 20 years of their lifes watching ash failing.
>Ashnime is the opposite
You're the one who said ashnime leaders only use their ace.
>Means the gym leader aren't some joke that suppose to lose to a newbie with lvl 5 pokemon.
Right, there are two types of trainers, champion+ level and newbie loser with nothing in between.

>>58004950
>Which doesn't change anything as you're the one that has issues with that.
Dude, everybody outside Horizonfags has issue with that.

>It outright does to people reasonable enough
Not it does not because a gym leader is still more experienced and skilled to lose to a total newbie with five pokemon.
The game pretty much insist that the protagonist is some sort of super prodigy born after 1000 years.

>You're the one who said ashnime leaders only use their ace.
And Ash actually had train and develop ONSCREEN to overcome them.

>Right, there are two types of trainers, champion+ level and newbie loser with nothing in between.
Headcanon
There are multiple tier trainer such as average trainer, gym leader , League Conference winner, Elite 4 and than Champion.

>>58004950
>Which doesn't change anything as you're the one that has issues with that.
Dude, everybody outside Horizonfags has issue with that.

>It outright does to people reasonable enough
Not it does not because a gym leader is still more experienced and skilled to lose to a total newbie with lvl five pokemon.
The game pretty much insist that the protagonist is some sort of super prodigy born after 1000 years.

>You're the one who said ashnime leaders only use their ace.
And Ash actually had train and develop ONSCREEN to overcome them.

>Right, there are two types of trainers, champion+ level and newbie loser with nothing in between.
Headcanon
There are multiple tier trainer such as average trainer, gym leader , League Conference winner, Elite 4 and than Champion.

>>57999229
what the fuck is the kodomo genre? are barney and power rangers the same narrative category?

>>58004963
>Dude, everybody outside
Nta, you don't speak for me or others with your retarded mental gymnastics, schizo. Learn English and play the games if you can even afford to buy them, stupid ass thirdie.

>>58004950
the schizo completely missed the sarcasm lmfao

>>58004530
Pokemon is (borderline, but still) shonen, though. And has always been (now with Liko it's more debatable whether it's shonen, but it's definitely not kodomo, it's even less so than in Ash era).

This "Pokemon is kodomo" bullshit is usually brought up by "muh serious animu"-type weebs who want to mock Pokemon without feeling guilty for liking Dragon Ball or Naruto.
And most of those faggots have already died out now that there are barely any preteens/early teens in the Pokemon fanbase.

>>57999192 (OP)
Neck yourself

>>57999192 (OP)
Got damn team rocket really knows how to rock those uniforms

>>58005008
By that logic Doraemon should be shonen as well specially if you actually watched many of their episode, specials and movies,

>>57999192 (OP)
I demand porn of Jessie wearing that uniform and hairstyle!!!

Ash was only a proper series until maybe DP
They should have let him win in Sinnoh and then move on, this would have saved us so much mindbreak. Fuck you Yuyama, even Ishihara said Ash should have left around that time

I could believe the schizo is Yuyama himself. ESL and too much free time, checks out

>>58004963
>everybody outside Horizonfags has issue with that
>>57999808
>>57999839

>Not it does not because a gym leader is still more experienced and skilled to lose to a total newbie with lvl five pokemon
Again, its an explanation made to work for a reasonable person. You aren't that.

>And Ash actually had train and develop ONSCREEN to overcome them.
So he did develop?

>>58004971
Ashfags love to bring up words used in the wider anime fanbase to try to pass as people with criteria. Same as they often bring up Conan or Luffy while clearly not having experienced either.

>>58005008
>Pokemon is (borderline, but still) shonen, though.
Assuming this is right, then bringing up shonen MCs shouldn't be a problem.

>now with Liko it's more debatable whether it's shonen, but it's definitely not kodomo
Its 100% for kids. Even if you only watched kids anime you would know that it doesn't really try to do anything special that you wouldn't expect, and its arguably on the safer side of kids anime.
It just seems "serious" because you haven't experienced stuff outside pokemon.

>>58005173
>Again, its an explanation made to work for a reasonable person.
Coming from the guy who is trying to defend Horizon.

>So he did develop?
Yes

>>58005177
>Yes
So if he can develop then he can get above gym leader level, right?

>>58005183
I don't know why you're trying to make sense out of a schizo who got kicked out by his parents

>>58005191
Because seeing the attempts of making sense of the incoherent can be fun as of itself.
Also, a majority of people here think the same way.

>>58005183
>So if he can develop then he can get above gym leader level, right?
That Doesn't mean gym leaders get weaker now that champion tier trainer like Raihan could be a gym leader.

>>58005200
>That Doesn't mean gym leaders get weaker now
Never said that.
>champion tier trainer like Raihan could be a gym leader.
If he weren't an exception then you wouldn't even bring him up. Also, if he can develop, then he can get stronger than Raihan too.

>>58004683
>the main series games that almost everything pokemon related is based on are less important than a shitty fanfiction cartoon for 5 year olds
nah

>>58005202
>Never said that.
You literally insisting gym leaders should be weak enough for newbie with lvl 5 pokemon to defeat.

>If he weren't an exception then you wouldn't even bring him up
Larry, Koga, Blue Melony
Did you forget them?

>Also, if he can develop, then he can get stronger than Raihan too.
But a newbie with lvl 05 won't be defeating him.

>>58005228
>You literally insisting gym leaders should be weak enough for newbie with lvl 5 pokemon to defeat.
Not really. Learn to read.
>Did you forget them?
No, I'm not the one making a list of characters you can count on one hand to pretend its the norm.
>But a newbie with lvl 05 won't be defeating him.
That exact thing happened and you defended it.

demography (kodomo/shonen) and storytelling (monster of the week/long term plot) are completely different things and some people are mixing them up here. There are MOTW-type shonen, even MOTW-type adult series like CSI. MOTW shows are dying everywhere anyway. Now people binge series on streaming platforms and want to enjoy them as if it was a very long movie.
And demography is blurry, this or that series is called "shonen" because suits said so. Somehow attack on titan is shonen and one punch man is seinen, based on exactly what? Just the magazine that published them.

the ashnime was a hybrid that combined a story arc (winning the league) with MOTW episodes. The problem is that every league challenge is fundamentally the same story arc and you can repeat it only so many times in a row before it gets old. And it got old after the Tobias fiasco. Having one setback or even two, it's ok, DP broke the limit. There should have been a new MC for BW+XY, and another MC for SM+Journeys.

>>58005196
>Also, a majority of people here think the same way.
Nah, hardly. But I get what you mean, at some point you realize the other person is too far gone and just want to mop the floor with him. In the process you might convince some random lurker and that's already a win.

>>58005308
>And it got old after the Tobias fiasco.
It got old at the loss in Johto. If you stuck past that you're on the ashfag boat.

>Nah, hardly.
Nigga, padt has been a thing ages prior to Horizons being announced. The ashnime was always popular with the fanbase and, at the least, it was tolerated. Saying otherwise is revisionism.

>>58005254
>Not really
Yes really, you are pretty much insisting gym leader should lose to newbie trainers with lvl 5 pokemon.

>No, I'm not the one making a list of characters you can count on one hand to pretend its the norm.
You mean gym leader that said to have ability on per with E4.

>That exact thing happened and you defended it.
I don't remember Original Ash defeating Brock with lvl 05 Pikachu.

>>58005308
>There should have been a new MC for BW+XY, and another MC for SM+Journeys.
It would not have worked ether way considering how Horizons failed.

>>58005316
>You mean gym leader that said to have ability on per with E4.
Yeah, exceptions. And even then E4 level can also be beaten so those case are moot.

>I don't remember Original Ash defeating Brock with lvl 05 Pikachu.
A lvl5 Snivy beat a Pikachu that just fought legendaries trained by an Ash that had 32 badges.

>>58005322
>Yeah, exceptions. And even then E4 level can also be beaten so those
AKA a self inserted Mary Sue protagonist who gets everything handed to him like a generic isekai protagonist that looks like Kirito.

>A lvl5 Snivy beat a Pikachu
And people got angry over it with Best Wishes widely considered to be the worst pokemon anime series before Horizons came out.

>>58005329
Developing as a trainer is being a Mary Sue now?

>And people got angry over it with Best Wishes widely considered to be the worst pokemon anime series before Horizons came out.
reasonable people didn't like it, yeah.
You ashfags defended it.

>>58005332
>Developing as a trainer is being a Mary Sue now?
Getting everything handed to them with any development is being a mary sue.

>reasonable people didn't like it, yeah.
>You ashfags defended it.
Ashfags are one who got angry the most which mean they are the most reasonable according to you.

By the way, gym leaders in French are called chef de la ligue.

>>58005340
>Getting everything handed to them with any development is being a mary sue.
And a character can't be stronger than an Elite 4 without getting everything handed to them?
>Ashfags are one who got angry the most which mean they are the most reasonable according to you.
Not really. Ashfag insisted on muh zekrom and that there are no levels in the ashnime.
>By the way, gym leaders in French are called chef de la ligue.
Kek, you're desperate.

>>58005345
>And a character can't be stronger than an Elite 4 without getting everything handed to them?
Only when they go though character development, gain enough experience, face failure & hardship, honed their skill from battling many strong rival and accomplish enough to reach E4 and Champion tier.

>Ashfag insisted on muh zekrom and that there are no levels in the ashnime
No, that was the fans of Best Wishes damage controlling and defend Best Wishes series just like you are defending Horizon.

>>58005360
>Only when they go though character development, gain enough experience, face failure & hardship, honed their skill from battling many strong rival and accomplish enough to reach E4 and Champion tier.
Why did you get so mad at the notion of that happening in >>58005329 then?

>>58005363
>Why did you get so mad at the notion of that happening
An undeveloped character with no personality getting whatever he wants handed to him without going though no character development is not the notion.

>>58005368
Ok, and given we were talking about Ash, I take it you think Ash is an undeveloped character with no personality getting whatever he wants handed to him without going through character development

>>58005372
>Ok, and given we were talking about Ash
Ash had 20 years of character development & ONSCREEN training where he had to face failure and learn from hardship before finally become strong enough to be a Champion.

Stop confusing Ash with Roy.

>>58005386
>Ash had 20 years of character development
So Ash could develop then?
>Stop confusing Ash with Roy.
No one said anything about Roy. Follow the reply chain. You explicitly mentioned Ash in >>58004963 and we were talking about him since. Learn to read.

>>58005390
>So Ash could develop then?
Yes he still has room to develop unlike HZ characters.

>You explicitly mentioned Ash i
No we are talking about the unrealism of the game protagonist taking out gym leaders that are more experienced than them in the anime few minute after receiving their first pokemon

>>58005403
>Yes he still has room to develop
Could he develop past gym leader and e4 tier, become champion tier and even beat champions then?

>>58005408
if you are talking about Ash than he already had enough experienced & character development to achieve that on DP series.
If you are talking about new protagonist like Roy then No because he barely had any meaningful character development and simply gets things handed to him.

>if you are talking about Ash then he can develop because he already developed
>if you are talking about Roy then he can't develop because he didn't already
I asked as simple yes or no question and instead i got gold.

Ash is ded, good riddance , the best thing did tpc in years lol, amazing how the anime didnt affect the sales of the franchise, just show people buy pkmn products dont give a shit to the tranime

14 year old Ash in a school due to something happened middle of the timeskip and he is dragged into a school tournament that turns out to be part of something bigger. Oh Ash should go though physical change that allows him to hide his identity as the world champion like pic related.

See, it wasn't that hard.

>>58005173
>Its 100% for kids. Even if you only watched kids anime you would know that it doesn't really try to do anything special that you wouldn't expect, and its arguably on the safer side of kids anime.

Depends on who you consider a "kid". It's still early teen stuff (while kodomo implies preteen). Not a single Japanese media ever called Pokemon a "kodomo anime", it's a typical western weeb classification.

Really, it's 2025 and liking One Piece, Boruto or whatever shit doesn't make you look any more "adult" than liking Pokemon. It's time to grow out of those 2000s complexes (or grow up literally, if you're an actual 15-year-old).

>>58005518
>ashfag telling anyone else to grow up

>>58000622
This kills the ESL

>>58000648
>Pokémon needs to stop trying to make a school setting work
Horizons is trying to be liks Eureka Seven & Nadia The Secret Of The Blue Water though. Also DP manage to nail school settings with Sinnoh Summer Camp Arc.

>https://x.com/Freeza123456789/status/1945529453972746410
> Goku despite being stronger having problems against grunt tier characters.

Gym leaders on Paldea can still be a challenge to Ash if he uses newer Pokémon.

pokemon anime is the shttiest anime ever created in japan with ash or without ash, hell even anpanman is better than this boringfes even disney make better cartoons and its making twisted wonderland anime, tpc want pokemon be the most stupid and retarded franchise ever congratulations, they canleled the movies, removed ash lol the anime will be cancelled sooner than later

>>58007322
the first season was the only good too, it's the most watchable

>This thread is still here
Maybe Ash should've stuck around, if people can't stop talking about him!

>>58007389
>Repeatedly revives the thread from page 10 to report the retarded crap from years ago
>Only gets attention from anons making fun of him or other ESLs
3/10 for trying cocksucker.

>>58007389
Lol and lmao you're not fooling anyone. Spreading dumb shit over and over again won't make him reappear, schizo.

>>57999192 (OP)
Fuck of Ashfag, Horizon won.

MPM 02 has proven that Ash could have revert to his old OS personality anytime but writers purposefully made him act different.

>>57999192 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J7JsCqVou0&t=16s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCkE2eWgSAI
Not sure if anyone here is curious but i came across these videos in my recommend a few day's ago. I haven't watch them, so i can't tell you if their good or not. But if you really miss ash that much i suppose it wouldn't hurt to give them a try.

>>58005308
"Shonen", "shojo", "seinen" and "josei" are magazine demographics, and mostly exist because manga magazines are huge anthologies and it's nice to have a general term for roughly what kind of audience they're aiming for (while "kodomo" is a western-invented term taken from misinterpreting the term "kodomo-muke", which isn't REALLY a demographic the same way the others are either).

Shit like "shonen anime" is just weird shortform for "anime adapted from manga published in shonen magazines", TV shows aren't given demographic labels themselves the way magazines are. Of course westfags don't know this, so you constantly see retards trying to figure out whether this or that anime-original show is shonen or seinen or whatever when the answer is "neither".

>>57999193
But they're comfy and easy to wear!