Canonically speaking, and outside of (You), the player, who are the top 50 best trainers in this franchise? Like, who's got the feats and the battle record to support occupying a top roster spot in the lore?

And this would presumably be based on whatever each character's strongest canon team would be. Anime logic and game logic can both be applied, but I'm looking for some objectivity, especially in the top 10.

>>58036062 (OP)
Okay, obviously we gotta look at end and post game challenges first. So we got...

Champions (Inherently the best of their leagues)
Battle Facility Masters (Arguable for some who rely on gimmicks, but others are going to be champion tier)
Super Bosses (Stuff like Red, though most are just returning champions. The only example I can think off the top of my head who isn't would be Rainbow Rocket Giovanni)

So it becomes a task of listing and deliberating from there.

>>58036062 (OP)
I predict that this thread will devolve into a shitfling, good luck with that

>>58036062 (OP)
Remove 9 from here. Beyond this you'd have to get into how regions compare to each other. I'd say the Blueberry Academy Elite 4 is the most questionable to be there but they are without a doubt at least competing with Paldea Champion level so if a region so if anything that just says Paldea is weaker than Unova. So maybe move all SV trainers down 1 tier. Moving 3 from Champion to Elite 4 tier and 8 off the list leaving 51 remaining

>>58036120
Not including battle facility people like Frontier Brains while including E4 members is just laziness.

>>58036120
>Kukui
>When he jobbed out of Kanto so bad he went into researching Pokemon and couldn't even beat a SINGLE Kanto child despite them being the very first Alolan Champion

>>58036120
>Remove 9 from here.
Remove Gen 9? Gladly.

>>58036120
>>58036160
I feel like Hau deserves champion tier a lot more than Kukui does, and he’s not even in the top 2 tiers. A lot of the rivals would probably rank above the elite four tier as well.

>>58036136
This too. Where the fuck are Brandon and Palmer?

>>58036120
Majority of Elite 4 tier would destroy Geeta and her shit team.

>>58036136
How's this. I doubt this is completely accurate as I went by feel for a lot of them but it should be all inclusive minus anime, spinoffs, and Arceus

Who can beat him?

>>58036062 (OP)
>>58036091
Does this make aldith canonically the strongest trainer in Sinnoh because of her great accomplishment of killing off Cynthia so easily

>>58036062 (OP)
>top 50
I know you're trying to prevent shitflinging, but c'mon.

>>58036120
Remove Trace and Blue just on principle, remove Geeta because she's awful. I'd remove Geeta too. Diantha, Kukui, and Hala/the rest of the island people might be powerful within the range of characters we 'know' but I doubt they're highly ranked globally in-universe. A lot of post-game characters would easily dethrone the E4 trainers.

>>58036219
some little ginger kid

>>58036544
I thought 50 was excessive as well, but when you consider the number of characters there are, 50 opens up better discussion for power rankings instead of the question basically being "which champion is the strongest??" With one anon ummm ackshooally-ing some other npc, so I think it works
Also I agree with removing Kukui from champion level or at least replacing him with Hau

Bless the anon(s) for the tier lists, thank you

>>58036062 (OP)
what about this?

https://youtu.be/AB5A91zoGAw?si=VO71mxwrvKLa5FK6&utm_source=ZTQxO

>>58036634
tier list anon. I mostly put Hau in Late game tier because that's where seems accurate for SM. USUM Hau would be champion tier but it also seems like something GameFreak threw in for a "we gotta make it different" reason. And yeah, 50 is probably a good base since almost 100 make Elite 4 tier or above

>>58036120
>>58036210
Moved Hau up per request. Other changes were just trying to compare regions to each other. Only real direct comparisons I can recall are Kanto to Johto and Alola which just makes Kanto seem like a particularily strong region so a lot of those moved up. The other being Paldea to Unova. I still find it difficult to believe the Blueberry Academy Elite 4 are actual Elite 4 lore wise. It'd mean shit like Drayton being stronger than Drayden despite being seen as a slacker by the latter. It's undeniable though that they're Elite 4 if not Champion tier to Paldea trainers since you're forced to beat Area Zero before being able to challenge them. So a lot of Paldea trainers moved down

>>58036219
Either an Alolan Sandslash, an Armarouge, or Bruno.

>>58036694
Are we measuring these guys by their full teams or first gym teams or something idk

>>58036918
I was going by first team otherwise anyone with a post game rematch would be Champion tier

>>58037179
>>58036918
or I guess more accurately, their last main game team. Mainly relevant for rivals

>>58036062 (OP)
1. Leon

>>58036694
You made it a lot worse now. Paldea literal Elite 4 not being Elite 4 tier is ridiculous no matter how you rationalize it

>the fact that Trace has to be seriously considered because he beat Lance and therefor had become the champion of the Indigo Plateau, potentially only losing his title to a bullshit 2v1 battle where Chase and Elaine gang up on him
Oh, fuck this.

Lance should very well be top 3 in the world, but Game Freak and TPCi keeps fumbling him every single time. All they have to do is make look as cool as he did in the Rocket hideout and have him use Dragonite in the anime - it's not hard!

>>58036062 (OP)
she is HER

>>58037321
>Needs to get her shit together twice to reach Red's base level
Just imagine what a Red rematch team would look like, sweet jesus

>Red
kanto meme with a shitachu ace

>>58036694
Some suggestions on some changes from what we see of the Masters 8 Tournament from the anime. Of all of the hundreds (thousands?) Of trainers to compete we have a small list of trainers who actually reached the top 8 spots of a worldwide tournament, if only temporarily. This means they would be minimum champion tier even though they themselves have never been champions.

First up is obviously Raihon, who in game and anime is said to be a serious competitor to Leon. He's also the 9th ranked best trainer in the world at final count. Next is Flint, who is already E4 tier, but reaching top 8 even if temporarily still would make him champ tier. We also know he has a supposedly equal rival in Volkner which would logically mean Volkner is champ tier too. While I feel like these placings can be debated, they at least put their names in the top 50 easily.

And while we are at it, it would feel incomplete not to at least bring up Alain and the protagonist from Pokemon Puzzle League (what a fucking obscure game to pull a Masters 8 competitor from). Xmxyt

>>58036642
Automatically invalidated by the fact that the guy omitted the Frontier Brains.

>>58037408
Red could canonically ditch Espeon for Mewtwo. Pikachu, Charizard, and Snorlax are non-negotiable. Blastoise and Venasaur probably have to stay too, but I'd definitely sub one of those for Dragonite, and another for Gengar if we wanted peak gen 1.

>>58037446
>first half are defined by colorful hair and outfits
>2nd half is mostly wearing black and has brown skin and black hair (besides diantha)

>>58036642
>May throws to Swordbert and Shieldbert by missing her first three attacks, costing her two of her pokemon

>>58039070
>4 of the light skinned champions are wearing mostly black
>3 of the dark skinned champions are wearing mostly black
>none of them have the same color hair
Please don't make things up just to derail the thread.

>>58036642
>Zinnia mogs to Trevor

>>58036642
>Lillie gets ugly bastard'd in a 1v3 against fucking Tierno
I am having a ball.

>>58037321
Red and Blue are canonically stronger as they are considered legends in the battle tree and all the other returning trainers just PKMN trainer.

>>58036642
>Both Hop and Silver losse to Plumeria
>Mustard domestic abuses Honey
First video was fun, gonna keep watching.

>>58039149
For all we know they have those titles only because they are the ones running the facility.

>>58039173
>Bianca wins first battle of the main brackets by knowcking out Kukui
Weakest woman in Unova vs strongest man in Alola

>>58039149
>Red and Blue are canonically
canonically shitters with terrible teams, no EVs, no items etc.

>>58039192
>Ramos sets up sun vs Blaine

>>58039254
>Whitney doesn't rollout against Malva's all fire team

>>58039101
Cope, up through Diantha they're varied and interesting while the last four are just generic brown people.

How we ranking them?

>>58039764
This is why nobody respects racists. You have to just piss everywhere without adding anything to the conversation. Can you at least try and not be annoying?

>>58039801
thorton>noland>spenser>the rest

>>58036062 (OP)
ENTER

>>58038787
Nice. And bump them all up to lv 95-100.

>>58039801
I don't even know if you could objectively rank some of them fairly. Anabel, for instance - by game logic, she could have a number of different movesets and hold items between Emerrald and Gen 7.

By anime logic, she has a borderline superpowered empathy towards Pokemon, which enables her to have a deep, resonant connection with any Pokemon and allows her to "telepathically" communicate with her own Pokemon.

The Frontier Brains are unironically all contenders for spots in the top 20.

>>58039885
I want to see one of those NPC simulation battles include Mysterium. What trainer’s beating Scarf Kyogre

>>58039906
Maybe Wally. Not even Gen 9 power creep could stop The Wall.

>>58039891
The only reason I could see being justified for why Frontier Brains wouldn't be included in these kinds of things is because they have such diverse teams usually that it's hard to actually narrow down a team for them.

>>58039279
>Alder's Accelgor uses Me First to coppy Centiskorch's Fire Lash to proc Flash Fire

>>58041369
>Guzma VS Red
>Down to Vikavolt vs Lapras
>Vikavolt has the advantage
>Lapras dodges Thunderbolt that would kill it
>Ice Beam
>VIKAVOLT SURVIVES WITH 1% HP TO WIN THE MATCH

DESTRUCTION IN HUMAN FORM LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO

>>58041388
>Misty beats Leon to go on to face Brock in the next round

Galar in Shambles.

>>58041436
>Lenora nearly sweeps Glacia with a confused Mincinno
That just seems embarrassing

>>58041450
I posted too soo because her last pokemon was only alive because of a sash, but Glacia actually won. Lenora's watchog survived an attack thanks to their own sash, but Hail was up.

>>58041455
>Ghetsis spanks N, Raihon, and Morty
Man hates twinks.

>>58036062 (OP)
Shitroona canonically has the worst feats in the series.

>>58041483
>Milo's Eldegoss completely walls Ilima
I'm retarded and thought the captcha said kys

>>58041520
>Watson's Manetric double teams once to sweep Cyrus

>>58039801
Greta is highest because she's hottest and thus I headcanon her as strongest