Thread 58067622

>cloyster banned in gen 5 smogon
>latios is still allowed even though it ticks literally every box for a banned mon

>>58067622 (OP)
but ice is totally le bad type btw

Smogon has gotten really anal about bans since gen 8. It's so bad that if battle bond greninja or Kartana were introduced today they would have been quick banned before the first week of their existence

>>58067626
It is. A single overtuned mon doesn't negate the inherent detriments of the type.

>>58067666
>ice pokemon is good
>i-i-i-it’s just overtuned
yeah ok campaignshitter

>>58067672
Concession gladly accepted

>>58067626
>Ummm actually Bug is a good type because Volcarona exists.

>>58067626
this is an obvious exception and not the rule

>>58067823
Ironically, despite Ice type actually being pretty good in the modern gen, this picture completely misses the point and somehow manages to make ice glazers look like retarded trolls which they are, to be fair.

Normal type is the strongest type because Arceus can tera-normal into Swords Dance and then sweep with Extreme Speed.

>>58067622 (OP)
I didn't know latios got shell smash and skill link with an ice rock coverage combo

Cloyster dies to literally any good choice scarfed special attacker thoughbeit.

>Swords Dance x3 into Agility x3 into Baton Pass onto Magikarp
>sweep
Magikarp is the single most powerful pokemon to ever exist

>>58067622 (OP)
Cloyster got banned because they found out that Gems buff each hit of a multihit move and give one time 281.25 BP move.\ to pretty much be nearly guaranteed a kill (besides a predicted Heatran switch which still got chunked by boosted Icicle Spear).

>>58067779
except the only gen volcarona is banned in is the one where it can change its type

bug is so shit that it singlehandedly keeps it balanced KEK

>>58067869
1) why wouldn't it; that's not a discovery
2) gems were long banned before cloyster was
3) cloyster was banned because of a smogonfag smear campaign claiming it was too difficult to build against

>>58067879
Explain Genesect

>>58067901
literally just scizor (one of the few good bug types) with the addition of a legendary's statline

>>58067898
that and they do their gay bans etc based on usage rather than any sort of concept of a coherent metagame.

>>58067949
don't conflate bans with tiershifts

>>58067956
It's not. You're a retarded person. It's not as though they use this metric for the entirety of their tiers -- but not for bans.

>>58067961
this reply is nonsensical

why complain here about what smogon bans
you think that's going to make them change their bans? complain to smogon intead ya pinhead

>>58068030
because some people here are so desperate for attention that they need to start stale flamewars over shit they can't do anything about

>>58067879
You'd be shocked just how many pokemon turn into a broken unbalanced mess once they get rid of their shit typing.

>>58067622 (OP)
I still can use it in my cartridge

>>58067622 (OP)
>playing the worst competitive gen
>playing smogon for anything other than VGC practice

>>58067626
Ice is a great offensive type and mediocre defensive type.
For some reason, fast Ice-type Pokémon are few and far between.

>>58067622 (OP)
>this is banned in gen 3
Smogoncels are mentally ill

>>58067898
>cloyster was banned because of a smogonfag smear campaign claiming it was too difficult to build against

How can they say that, given it has essentially no Sp. Def?

>>58068477
Machamp and Froslass are banned in gen 4.
The entire sleep status got nuked in gen 9.
Last I heard, they're considering banning paralysis now too.

>>58068477
yep

>>58067622 (OP)
nuSmoggies should be unable to ban mons retroactively after the gen is over. They are also enshittifying gen 4 by making it Jirachi flinch time and anything that threatens jiratards like based machamp gets banned.

>>58068477
>>58069362
nuSmoggies are retarded, they lost the fucking plot and if an eceleb gets beat with a shitmonor a non-cookie cutter team they ban said shitmon.

>>58069362
>The entire sleep status got nuked in gen 9.
Should've been nuked from every generation tbf

>>58069423
BKC is a late millennial who's been a smoggie since Gen V and he:
>spearheaded the campaign to unban Latias
>campaigned against Machamp to get it banned
>denigrates anyone who claims that Arena Trap should be unbanned
>stays silent about the fact Jirachi still hasn't even been suspect tested, tacitly would rather keep Jirachi entirely if Iron Head alone can't be banned due to "policy"

>>58069437
you don't play Gen I, Gen II, or Gen III

>>58067622 (OP)
why don't you make this thread there instead

>>58067626
it's sometimes amazing how little cognizance they have
and what lengths they will go to to suppress criticism >>58067823

>>58069468
>gen 5
So it's an entitled nuSmoggy. Old smoggies created the scene and played on net battle, shoddy battle or pokemon online back in gen 3.
I have no fucking clue how they csn rationalize Jirachi not being banned when it essentially has 60% chance to flinch but Machamp who is slower, more frail and whose confusion is only 30% chance to miss a turn got the banhammer.

>>58069552
old confusion was 50% before it was nerfed in nugens

>>58069473
Gen 1, where sleep is at its strongest by far?
It should be banned and Freeze Clause should just outright prevent Freeze all together. It’s just that the trannies who play Gen 1 are all allergic to change that isn’t chopping off their penis.

>>58069582
It's still inferior to Serene Grace Paralysis + Flinch chance...

>>58069600
>let's slopify all the gens
Fuck off Zoomer go back to playing randbats

>>58069600
>Gen 1, where sleep is at its strongest by far?
yep
although Gen 5 has an argument for being worse
>It should be banned and Freeze Clause should just outright prevent Freeze all together.
you don't play
>It’s just that the trannies who play Gen 1
called it
stick to your nugens
smogon banned the most active tranny in the community btw, total persona non grata now

>>58069651
zoomers legit will tell you how much nugens suck and then go to your oldgen whining about how much it needs nugen tiering policies
they're the californians of competitive Pokemon, zero self-awareness or respect for their hosts

>>58069362
>Paralysis is getting banned next
At that point, why not ban every move that relies on RNG? Every ability that relies on RNG? Why not make an effective custom modification to get rid of critical hits, just like how Sleep Clause was a thing?
Hell, in a cosmic sort of way, teambuilding is a random factor you cannot account for either. Why not just ban everything except for the six most prominent staples of the entire metagame, and any sets that deviate from what's Smogon Approved™?

>>58069659
Can confirm

>>58067622 (OP)
>Caring about playing Pokemon as a competitive sport
>Let alone playing it as a competitive sport according to the whims of randos on the internet

>>58069828
If it wasn't worth caring about, Pokemon itself wouldn't be hosting annual tournaments on a worldwide scale.

>>58068179
>playing singles for anything other than doubles practice
i know why your parents shared a last name before marriage

>>58070003
Singles won't teach you shit about Doubles, though? There's tons of moves and abilities that literally do not have functional purpose in Singles, so you can never experiment with them.

>>58069659
you are a zoomer, you are a newfag, and you are terrible at the game.

dunning kruger incarnate, zero self-awareness: it's you.


you are the newnigger invading zoomer cancer troon subhuman filth.

you weren't aware of the existence of adv ou or any of these tiers until a few years ago at most, subhuman.

get the fuck out.

>>58069653
you are a troon zoomer newnigger subhuman. you are terrible at the game. you are worthless.

>>58069423
jirachi beats machamp, not the other way around.


jirachi was surely the more powerful and more broken of the two,

but retards like you make legitimate arguments to ban jirachi look bad.


i would have preferred to ban jirachi instead of machamp, but retards like you literally make that stance look bad.

>>58068477
if you really wanted to minimize/simplify the banlist of gen 3 (one of the original supposed goals of tiering), you would simply ban sand stream and baton pass (then all of the sand veil and soundproof shitmons would be unbanned, and all of the other complex bans that have already been done to preserve bp wouldn't be necessary) but you're not ready for that conversation.

>>58067848
scarf starmie was the only thing that could revenge kill cloyster. but that was literally the only reason to use scarf starmie. it was the only thing to be able to revenge +2 cloyster.


but teams with cloyster and volcarona are literally viable in gen 6 ou and they'll never be banned there.

they're just too strong for gen 5.

this is the one type of ban that should not bother anyone. the banned mon is literally unbanned and able to viably use the same strategy in the very next gen.

>>58067662
gen 7 was abr's magnum opus. (he refuses to ban anything. refused to suspect magearna, even wanted it to be legal in gen 8 after it got stored power lmao)

gen 8 ou is finchinator's magnum opus

gen 9 ou is finchinator's abortion

(finch is actually the first tier leader in entire smogon history to make any attempt to be involved with the community in any capacity. which is probably why you saw more suspect tests. finch isn't an evil jew boogeyman either, in reality he's an absolute pushover turbo-normie cuck.)

but it took them awhile to even ban dracovish in gen 8. i don't think they banned things too fast in gen 8. they didn't even ban that many things. and it's not like gen 7 or gen 6 for that matter were without bans. but i think all the bans were reasonable, and they ended as fine metagames.


in truth, failure to ban tera in gen 9 was probably the biggest mistake in a long time or ever. tons of shitmons like regieleki, espathra are only banned because of tera. volcarona, roaring moon would be fine w/o tera too. even the shit like zamazenta and darkrai in ou would be completely manageable w/o tera.

by banning tera, you would have had a much smaller banlist overall.

even abr wanted dynamax and tera banned though. so if you think these are good gimmicks, fuck off.

the tera suspect test was 59.25%. they should have done another suspect after all the DLCs were finished.

maybe they will still ban it yet though.


aside, having item clause in gen 8 & 9 would have greatly nerfed stall (which would mean a more positive community perception of the tier)

i don't think stall in gen 6 or 7 is overpowered. but ever since gen 6 there has been a 1-hour battle timer for matches in-game. stall is clearly against the spirit of the game. and not even replicable on cart anymore.

heavy duty boots stall is the most formulaic playstyle besides bp. it is also a pure matchup fish. no one who uses stall on ladder stands a chance when OLT season starts.

oh well.

>>58069837
>Pokemon itself wouldn't be hosting annual tournaments on a worldwide scale.
vgc is an advertisement.
the sole purpose of vgc is to shill the box legendaries and dlc legendaries of the latest dogshit nugen slop games.

now they're trying to ride hype generated by hideous manchildren like 'wolfe glicke" and turn it into an esport, but it ain't working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9USRyPD-EYQ

despite the backing of the gorillion-dollar "biggest franchise", no one cares about pokeshit compared to other turn based strategy games, card games, or other genres like RTS or MOBA, or other esports.

there are factually 1000% more players online the dying pokemonshowdown than there are across nintendo's entire online.

no one fucking plays pokeshit compared to any other multiplayer game out there.


no one in smogon actually cares about pokemon, they're there for the nostalgia/history/community. which is the same for /vp/ or most of the "pokemon community" elsewhere.

sneed.

>>58067626
when are you going to fucking kill yourself?
Jesus Christ, drop dead

>>58069837
...do you think people don't care about worthless shit?
yes, a bunch of people care about the next fifa game. doesn't mean it's worth caring about, people are just dumb.

>>58067622 (OP)
I miss using this in gen 4, along with curselax. Wish I could go back

>>58071024
don't give a fuck about anything else you said because you ended it with sneed

>>58067961
Is this voice-to-text that was fed through three translators? What are you even trying to say?

>>58067622 (OP)
I don't care that much, but I do find it funny how much more common bans became over time. Obviously OP shit like gen 2 Snorlax is grandfathered into never being banned because back then you had to either be a box tier legendary/mythical or outright break battles(like gen 1 fly) to get banned.
Then gen 3 came and Wobbuffet had to get banned, if only to prevent endless Wobbuffet mirrors, but even non leftovers sets were still banished to ubers, then came gen 4 and Garchomp and from that point onward, the banning threshold kept slipping lower with every year and generation.

>>58071340
Plus, banning Snorlax raises the problem of other threats rising to Snorlax's throne, so you have to ban them, and then it's a chain reaction of bans until Ubers becomes the new OU and OU is some weird husk, and you might even unironically end up with a Gen 1 scenario where you have a metric shitload of novelty tiers just so EVERY ONE of the 251 has a chance to shine somewhere.

>>58071624
I wonder if this might actually happen in gen 10 if the stereotype about omgon bans goes the way some people think it will\
Especially when combined with powercreep

What will be the cope when the next generation of Smogonites get filtered by GSC Jynx and call for a ban?