Thread 58081952

"This mysterious gear allows its wearer the match the strength of its opponent!"

The item description is intentionally vague; to resemble retro RPGs, and also because it would be the most concise way to describe it to casual players.

As soon as the Pokémon hits the field, it will note and match the total BST of the Pokémon in front of it by adjusting all of its stats except for HP. So for example, here is what would happen if a shitmon like Ledian (390 BST) is brought out against a legend like Mew (600 BST)...

>HP: 55
>Attack: 35+42 = 77
>Defense: 50+42 =92
>S.Atk: 55+42 = 97
>S.Def: 110+42 = 152
>Speed: 85+42 = 127

That's the idea. Steal it if you want it. My next post will go into the mechanics that may or may not be obvious!

Also, Crown > Saucer in general, but Saucer = Arceus in letters!

Strengths:
>Good grinding option for unevolved Pokémon to tackle high level areas
>Select shitmons would flourish competively if their ability/moveset has potential

Weaknesses:
>Your item slot is decided
>Mons with low base HP like the Hitmons, Dugtrio (etc)
>If the opponent predicts a hard switch intent they could hard switch into a low BST to mitigate the trigger or even make it BACKFIRE by decreasing your total BST instead!

Nuances:
>Enemy boosted stats?
Not a factor. Stats boosts have nothing to do with this effect.

>Switch out?
You lose whatever bonuses you have, and the item can be reused.

>Knock Off?
You do not lose the stats. The item already triggered!

>Trick/Switcheroo?
The new owner triggers the effect immediately.

>Stacking shenanigans?
Not a thing. In the event of a double trigger, the old would simply replace the new!

I wanted to say that bulkmons like Lapras would get too much out of this but that thing's BST is 535 and Snorlax is 540. That makes picrel one of the only mons that would be a terror with its 420 BST. And I'm all for it, because seeing it one-shot Hydreigon in Gen 6 was one of my favorite things to have ever happened.

>>58082200
It's looking like two great minds think alike as I was just thinking about that mon!

>>58081531
If what I said there ever does go into motion, it would be a very necessary check to prevent a water balloon rampage!

I like it, it would solve more problems than it would cause and just seems like a simple but neat idea to make shitmons relevant m

>weaknesses
>Mons with low base HP like the Hitmons, Dugtrio (etc)

What does this mean? That mons with low base HP would still be shit? I argue that those would be the ones who generally hit harder. There's literally no item in the game better for the hitmons in fact.

>>58082327
Huh, you're right. For some reason I always forget their base HP is 50 and not like 30-35. 50 is perhaps the bare minimum I would consider worth the gesture.

>>58082371
Schooling would activate first, followed by the item, resulting in a net loss against just about every Pokémon but Arceus itself!

>>58082397
And if you manage to keep solo form in reserves for later, then heal up?

>>58082397
Shame. I was hoping it would actually be viable and live up to its potential. I would honestly have the item proc before schooling as it has abyssmal HP.

>>58082417
Basically this.
https://youtu.be/cVPNJ4FWZvQ?si=HfFuV0xcbQsP8nnH

>>58082424
Okay yeah, I'm sold.

>>58082420
That would make things way too centralized. The one clear winner we do have is vicious enough. Who else would there be?

>>58082417
>>58082424
The fact that solo form has ten more base speed to increase its chances of pulling that off is wild. OP confirmed from an alternate universe

>>58081952 (OP)
Another post where people who don't play competitive want to change the meta they don't even play

>>58082464
Don't PU/ZU/NFE make up like ⅞ of all the Pokémon or some shit? kek

>>58082464
Yeah, it's fun to talk about. Maybe you should do something you find enjoyable.

>>58082464
If you even played the said meta you'd realize this wouldn't change shit but bump no more than twelve Pokémon up a grade or so. You're not gonna copy a 600 BST in OU, so the stats you're gaining most likely would not amount to much without extra boosts to go with the gains. This sounds like the Duel Skills from Fire Emblem Heroes, addressing the power creep by putting a band-aid on a severed leg. These did not shift the meta in the slightest because everyone who would get big stat gains have dogshit weapons, to the point where the only appeal is novelty.

I personally love the idea, but a certain mamchild would piss his pants.

>>58081952 (OP)
>Origin Saucer incineroar

>>58082624
>70 in all stats
>145 speed
>that move pool
>moody

>>58082630
530 BST is super high. Playing in ubers for +14 all is, ehh...

>>58081952 (OP)
Yet another "fix" that makes already strong mons stronger and shitmons still irrelevant besides those few fringe cases with broken abilities hindered by shitty stats

>>58081952 (OP)
You've clearly never touched competitive in your life.

>giving Pure Power/Huge Power mons 500+ BST before tip
What a great idea

>>58082708
It's diminishing returns for strong mons. It would only be a boost against things that have more stats already so if anything the stronger a mon is the worse off it is. Any in particular that worry you?

>>58082761
The only thing more annoying than people who don't understand competitive are people who bitch about people who don't understand competitive.

>>58082890
>Not running luvdisc to predict and counter the stat copy

>>58082982
There are plenty of already strong Pokemon with great typing, abilities, movepool, etc that are only kept in check by having mediocre stats. Clefable is probably the most obvious example but also pokemon like Lokix, Alomomola, Comfey, Azumarill, Araquanid, etc. This is as stupid of an idea as an item that gives every pokemon Regenerator or Fairy/Steel or whatever because "some pokemon are held back by their abilities or typing". That's the point. Dragapult would be fucking broken if it had a useful ability or could learn a good physical Ghost move, similarly Clef would be fucking broken if it had 500+ BST.

>>58082890
>dis is bad because da pure power and da huge power will be noticeable instead of almost as good as an actually good mon

>>58083113
t. mathlet

>>58083113
Let me guess you think Azumarill with pure power has 100 base attack

>>58081952 (OP)
This shit creates 999 problems and fixes absolutely nothing

>>58081952 (OP)
I think it could be an interesting item, but imo, it should be a consumable.
Things like Azumarill and Medicham would already crush skulls with this item. However, if you hard read your opponent, they lost their major sweeper just like that.
Plus, you aren’t entirely screwed. Switching out reverts the stats to normal, you’re just itemless.
Plus, it leaves some basic level counter play with phasing. Oh did you Azumarill copy Landorous T? Thankfully I still have my sturdy Skarm you didn’t set up hazards for, should have had an actual game plan rather than just hucking your Orgin Saucer user at the highest BST you can see.
Also, how would it work in doubles?

>>58083118
I know it's not that simple and the amp would be savage if you get a good roll. The upside is that there's a whopping two mons that actually have it. Whoop-dee-do, Medicham goes from NU to RU suspect. The world is kill!

>>58083121
>Also, how would it work in doubles?
I took that into account when I said the Pokémon directly in front of it. So it would be lane specific, as if the enemy mon that is in the same column as the item wielder unless that slot is empty. Then it would just choose the other one. I assume this is the case with HA Ditto, but I never use Ditto.

>>58083130
With the way calculations work it may even make sure like Defiant & Competitive actually matter. Picrel is only 435 BST.

>>58083141
>Send in Dondozo holding this item in restricted format against Calyrex
>gets +30 in all stats, then doubles stats from Tatsugiri

It’s a fun concept but it’s way too strong for an item

>>58083121
Consumable, repeatable, it doesn't really matter if you're not guaranteed to actually get a boost from the item. In all honesty this would be hard as balls to use effectively. Who the fuck would even memorize every single BST difference there is to capitalize on?

>>58083057
What makes Clef so broken that another mon wouldn't be able to get the same results if it was also boosting their states?

>>58083409
The fact that Clef has a great typing, a fantastic movepool, and two of the best abilities in the game? Having low stats is the thing that balances it, in the same way that e.g. Regieleki was balanced by having a bad movepool of only Electric and Normal moves and then they added Tera and it became completely broken.

>>58083175
>Fighting somebody using Calyrex
If you're swinging ubers then you can afford to have a whirlwind user on your team.

Honestly though, I feel like this could also work as a move. Make it learnable by everything like Protect is and it allows different kinds of counterplay.

>>58083423
Slap it with an Entrainment. Hell, throw an Aromatisse at it with the same item to copy it's new stats and then you win with Flash Cannon since Clefable has nothing super effective against Fairy other than Meteor Mash. You're not considering that there will be new pokemon that will be viable to potentially check the new 'OP' mons.

>>58083430
>in restricted format
Read nigger

>>58083476
Ah yes, let me run a total shitmon on every team just to check one broken set on one Pokemon. Nevermind the dozen other abusers of this item that Aromatisse doesn't do shit to.

Let me guess, you think evasion should be unbanned too?

>>58083480
Fair. So you can't use whirlwind in a restricted format?

>>58083482
>Ah yes, let me run a total shitmon on every team
That is literally the point of the item. I gave you one example and you're already trying to deflect. I just proved your point wrong and you're imploding. That's gotta be embarrassing to not be able to defend your point against someone who doesn't even understand competitive.

>>58083506
Roar/Whirlwind doesn't even work against Commander Dozo, it just fails. Play the fucking game.

>>58083518
Neat. Just looked up how Commander works and it says it raises stats by two stages. So does that work like a direct stat increase meaning it can be ignored by something with Simple, or critical hits?

>>58083516
>That is literally the point of the item
Aromatisse could have 600 bst by default and itd still be an RU shitmon at best. Thats what you don't get, this item doesn't make shitmons better, it just makes the handful of Pokemon that are already good in spite of their stats completely broken.

>>58083544
You are missing the point that was just an example of a really powerful benefitter which would warp restricted format around itself, my point was this item would be mandatory for VGC restricted because a +30 to all stats is insane and almost guaranteed when 2/4 Pokemon on both teams are box legends

>>58083544
>meaning it can be ignored by something with Simple
Do you mean unaware?

>>58083579
I assume so.

>>58083423
Not even a mathfag but Magic Guard + Life Orb is objectively better than this fanfic item on Clef.

Smeargle with decent, or even great stats would be a fucking menace.

>>58084494
>252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 179-212 (52.4 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs
252+ SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 160-189 (46.9 - 55.4%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah. The real benefit would be the extra speed, but due to the way the item works at least a 5th of the BST you gain will be wasted in your unused attacking stat.

>>58084503
If you see a Smeargle on the other team you gotta be prepared to switch in your own shitmon to prevent it from getting too many stats.

Honestly, I love this item because it increases shitmon usefulness in 2 ways. First, pure boost to stats. Second, shitmon become a counter to the item by it's very nature. If you manage to trick an opposing mon to copy a mon with even shittier stats it could handicap them.

>>58084664
Trolling the opponent with regular ass Limber Ditto would be hilarious.

Everyone is talking about competitive this and viable that. Meanwhile I see it as the perfect endgame grinding item.

>>58082327
>There's literally no item in the game better for the hitmons in fact.

This. The only competitive viability any of them ever had was Hitmontopb rubbing Intimidate & Fake Out before Incin mogged VGC with it.

The amount of smogonfags exposing themselves as retards is gold.

>>58085245
Imagine if Heavy Duty Boots were a fanfic item

>traps aren't broken you retard!
>spotted the Volcaronafag
>Heavy boots that make you immune to floating rocks. lowqualitybait.jpg

>>58085259
I mean, none of that is untrue to this day.

>>58085259
Apologize to the universe that were given the chance to shoot it down.

>>58082464
I'm willing to bet OP knows more than you. Nice try Verlisify.

>>58081952 (OP)
I feel like I've seen a similar idea elsewhere but I can't recall where.

>>58085322
See
>>58082587
Maybe

>>58085259
Boots are broken though. Not because of muh charizardino but because completely eliminating hazard damage makes stall and pivot mons way too fucking strong.

They should just reduce hazard damage to a maximum of 1/15 or something, completely eliminating it is just stupid.

>>58085325
Nah it wasn't FEH. I'm pretty sure I saw an idea like this in a Reddit post in r/stunfisk.

I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that this has way more impact on a level 50 format than a level 100 one.

I'd prefer a (non-consumable) held item that inverts resistances and weaknesses.

>>58085348
Stupid and completely breaks the identity of a Pokemon.

>>58085352
Fighting/Steel mongoloid paws typed this post.

why a flat boost to every stat except hp

>>58085348
So an Inverse battle item?
Guess it's better than a room or terrain

>>58085348
This takes the worst aspect of Tera and makes it a permanent part of the game, fuck no.
>dragonite is in, I better go to my weavile and triple axel it to prevent a sweep
>lol I actually resist ice now, you lose
Braindead.

>>58085366
Manipulating HP has proven to be cancerous since SwSh.

>>58085373
Doubling HP is not what broke Dynamax, it was the 3 turns of effectively Z-moves that hit through protect and boosted your stats. Max Airstream especially.

>>58085378
The double HP was definitely a large part of the problem, and is delusional to assume otherwise..

But to answer your question from earlier, the item is already distributing to your off stat(s). Adding HP to the equation would just make it borderline useless.

>>58085368
That's why the games tell you when this shit activates

>>58085368
Survival of the fittest needs to go fuck itself and die.

>>58085345
The discussion is just for Smogon OU multiple people have explained why this would never work for actual game

>>58085429
Tell that to evolution

>>58083130
Even worst, Medicham is ZU in SV apparently. How is that even possible?

>>58085475
There was only one valid argument in this thread that would shoot one particular Pokémon from SV-ZU straight to ubers.

>>58086201
Possibly even banned from Ubers.
Which I still think is fair because Smeargle had no business being invented in the first place.

>>58081952 (OP)
I have an alteration I would like to make.

Instead of splitting the difference equally over all 5 stats, which is wasteful very "slow frail mixed attacker", it should split it based on proportion of its original stats, that way it augments what a pokemon is designed for instead of homogenizes them out.

So for instance instead of

>HP: 55
>Attack: 35+42 = 77
>Defense: 50+42 = 92
>S.Atk: 55+42 = 97
>S.Def: 110+42 = 152
>Speed: 85+42 = 127

Ledian would have

>HP: 55
>Attack: 35+22 = 57 (10.45%)
>Defense: 50+32 = 82 (14.93%)
>S.Atk: 55+35 = 90 (16.42%)
>S.Def: 110+68 = 178 (32.84%)
>Speed: 85+53 = 138 (25.37%)

So instead of having a bunch of attack stat it basically still can't use even with Iron Fist, it becomes a very fast, extremely specially defensive dual screens baton passer, which is what it's made to be, just right now at PU tier.

>>58086253
I imagine it would be banned, but I personally don't see what the big deal is. You see a Smeargle on the enemy team and you just have to keep it from copying the right mon's stat total. Unless you're running a team full of ubers its not going to get uber stats. Honestly it might make it actually interesting to see in play because people could put actually interesting moves on it instead of it being shoehorned into being limited to very specific sets by its stats. Its power would rely on you being able to play it right. I imagine it just becomes a more versatile Mew that requires proper maneuvering to get onto the field.

>>58086201
There were many explanations of why this can’t be in the game because of the restricted format of VGC

>>58086253
a lot of its movesets go straight to AG anyways. I'm not surprised.

>>58084664
Oh that's true. It only copies based on base stats, so if you go in Saucer shitmon v Saucer shitmon you're wet noodle slapping.

>>58082890
u could always have it apply afterwards.
like >>58082397 mentions about Schooling.

>>58082327
>What does this mean? That mons with low base HP would still be shit?
They'd still be frail. If they're fast enough to move first and hit hard enough there's never a crackback and there's no entry hazards or statuses, it doesn't matter.
Glass cannon, basically. Or whatever you want to call Shuckle for the defensive equivalent.

>>58086296
oh no, you can only elevate one shitmon per team. big woop.

>>58086281
Conceptually I like it, but this method gives Shuckle 275 defense and special defense, which, being over 256, I think breaks the game coding-wise.

>>58081952 (OP)
Counter idea, what if instead of dynamically adjusting based on the BST of the mon in front of it, it just SETS a pokemon's BST to 700, same as mega-pseudos, that way it can even include HP.

So that way it has some diminishing returns use, even for strong mon.
But it benefits weakmon significantly more.

So then Ledian would have

>HP: 55+52 = 107
>Attack: 35+52 = 87
>Defense: 50+52 = 102
>S.Atk: 55+51 = 106
>S.Def: 110+51 = 161
>Speed: 85+51 = 136


And a metagross could technically use it and have

>HP: 80+17 = 97
>Attack: 135+16 = 151
>Defense: 130+16 = 146
>S.Atk: 95+17 = 112
>S.Def: 90+17 = 107
>Speed: 98+17 = 87

which is basically just a slower, bulkier sidegrade of mega-metagross.

700 is also a good cutoff because nothing other than Arceus has above a 700 naturally.

Everything's either an in-battle form change like a primal or mega or zygarde complete or necro ultra burst, several of which already require a held item, or a enemy-only form like Eternamax.

>>58086360
I mean, that's a problem even with the original equal distribution idea if Shuckle comes out against a Zacian suddenly it's got like 260+ def.

Shuckle just has a fuck-ton of defense.

i guess you could write in some kind of overage protection. If a stat hits 255, its stops increasing and the rest get the remainder.

>>58086281
The mixed stats makes the effect less convoluted, more fair, and easier to implement. That is what OP was going for most likely. And it's not like mixed defenses are a bad thing either.

>>58086297
>u could always have it apply afterwards.
like >>58082397 (You) # mentions about Schooling.

Huge/Pure Power is a passive. There is no activation.

>>58086416
yeah but there's still an order of operations.

Suddenly summerfags everywhere

>>58086416
Just sash/counter pure power. You know it's only going to have physical moves if its a pure power mon.

>>58086571
Special Pure Power when?

Where is my Pure Energy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPtSENztHg

>>58086698
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jByhSQyK1E4

>>58082890
I'm not actually convinced this would be broken on them.

Mega Mawile has 105 attack + Huge Power.
Mega Medicham has 100 + Pure Power.

Ignoring those two megas, all attack doubler pokemon have attack stats the 50s or 60s except Mawile at 85.

Do we really expect it to regularly add more than 50+ to attack?

>>58086746
against a 500BST, and split 6 ways to include health, mawile would get EXACTLY its mega's attack stat.

>>58086698
Just lazy change Pressure into the special attack version of Pure Power. Problem solved!