Thread 58166293

All pokemon that have won a world championship.

>>58166293 (OP)
>all that variety
SHARTgon could never

>>58166358
too bad a lot of them look like dogshit.

>>58166293 (OP)
>Gardevoir
>Raichu
>Hariyama
>Toxicroak
>Snorlax

How? I don't watch VGC.

Top 8 this year.

>>58166378
Toxicroak won in like 2009 in one of the first tournaments, when the power level was very low and no one knew what they were actually doing. It could never win again. The others I don't know about.

>>58166378
rule of thumb: if something can learn fake out and has decent stats then it's probably viable

>>58166378
>Gardevoir
2014 with pachirisu
>Raichu
2016
>Hariyama
2010
>Toxicroak
>Snorlax
2009 with empoleon

>>58166378
Mega Gardevoir existed back in 2014

>>58166421
Park used choice scarf Gardevoir

>Ludicolo
BASED

>>58166378
>Gardevoir
Scarf user with Telepathy so teammates could use Earthquake without hurting it. Lots of fairy weak mons in the format it won so it was usable without mega.
>Raichu
Assault Vest user with Fake Out and Nuzzle to annoy shit. Also had Lightning Rod so the Kyogre it was paired with could beat electrics
>Hariyama
No idea about this one. I know it gets Fake Out but there's definitely more to it
>Toxicroak
Used with Dry Skin to cockblock rain teams which were popular at the time
>Snorlax
Used as a Trick Room attacker with Self Destruct in its first win. Second win it ran a Belly Drum + Recycle set paired with Aguav Berry and Gluttony which made it a nightmare to kill

>>58166381
Forgot image.

>>58166358
61 Pokemon over nearly 20 years of tournaments is nothing. There are over half that number just in current gen OU.

>>58166443
>spore vs spore final
Nice game

>>58166443
5 gen 9 mons is kinda crazy

>>58166461
Ursaluna is from Gen 8, it just didn't competitively exist until Gen 9. The thing with Scarlet/Violet is that they created the Paradox with full intention of dominating the competitive format alongside their respective legendaries. There is a grand total of 0 Gen 9 Pokémon that aren't paradoxes or legendaries in the Top 8 this year.

>>58166482
its not in swsh so its gen 9

>>58166447
And how many of those OU mons have actually won Smogon’s tournaments or held down top ELO?

>>58166293 (OP)
And despite that half of these don't even have fans

>>58166302
Magnum Opus Won, Cope

>>58166533
every mon on that list is more respected than whatever shitter is (your) favorite.

>>58166549
Nobody likes terrakion, nigger faggot. Kill yourself

>>58166520
It's hard to directly compare them because 1. There are multiple different tournaments and 2. The tournaments are BO3 and players can switch teams, but just from this year's SPL for example the Grand finals (which was a 2-0) had 21 different Pokemon used across 4 different teams whereas the whole top 8 of this year's VGC has only 22 Pokemon across 8 different teams.

Smogon Singles has way, way more Pokemon variety, there's just no question about it.

>>58166659
Sorry I meant to say OST not SPL,

>>58166659
>Smogon Singles has way, way more Pokemon variety, there's just no question about it.
Not even getting into the fact that it has lower tiers which let weaker Pokemon shine.

>>58166293 (OP)
Iron hands has won 2 out of 3 championships it’s been eligible for.

>>58166671
That's pure fan format.

>>58166293 (OP)
>>58166302
Literal samefag

>>58157798
>>58157836

>>58166293 (OP)
>>58166939
>world championship
>implying vgc is a legitimate format
>implying there is a single vgc player/enthusiast who isn't a paedophile
LOL
you will never ever EVER convince the playerbase that fucking shitty DOUBLES should be played more than once when you select it out of curiosity/by mistake

>only 1 bug type
Why is bug type cursed to be so bad?

>>58166293 (OP)
Now the smogon champions... oh wait smogon never had a tournament

FANFIC META KWAB

>>58166293 (OP)
>they nerf cresselia yet they buff incin
>still loses

>>58167175
I fail to see how "fanfic meta" is an insult.
Are we not in agreement that the Pokémon Company does not know how to use the Pokémon franchise? Surely it is logical to assume that their foray in competitive Pokémon will also suck equally as much.

>>58166671
And yet far less diversity in strategy with far fewer board states.
The games are so heavily balanced around the doubles format that some many parts of the game are rendered useless in singles.

>>58167222
Smogon are a bunch of elitist bitches that jerk each other off on Discord and think Landorus is the be all end all of competitive balance. I still don't forgive them for banning Galarian Darmanitan.

pachirisuGODS

>>58166293 (OP)
>raichu
>pachirisu
Pikachuds...

>>58166549
>genie trio
>ultra beasts
>Pachirisu
>respected outside of their 15 minutes of competitive infamy

>>58167284
>And yet far less diversity in strategy
The difference in Pokemon diversity alone proves this wrong
>with far fewer board states
True
>The games are so heavily balanced around the doubles format that some many parts of the game are rendered useless in singles.
This goes both ways, see hazards which are effectively useless in doubles but central to the meta in singles.

>shill Charizard in every way possible, give it multiple forms and every possible ability and advantage you can give a starter to artificially boost it's popularity
>still can't win the big one

Holy KWAB!

>>58167452
>give it multiple forms and every possible ability and advantage you can give a starter to artificially boost it's popularity
Charizard has been at the peak of popularity ever since its introduction, it got all those special forms because it was already incredibly popular and making a Charizard mega is good marketing for a new mechanic. It doesn't need a boost.

>>58167430
>The difference in Pokemon diversity alone proves this wrong
Post all of their different strategies then. There’s probably less than VGC.

>>58167430
Pokemon themselves are not a strategy, wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle. Most mons will fall into a strategy archetype and singles straight up has fewer archetypes.
The nature of having two Pokemon on the field means that there are more ways to support your team.
Imagine Raichu for a moment, I think it's a cool mon in lower power doubles formats. It has fake out support, electro web speed control, lightning rod is also good redirection to protect your other mon on the field.
What good is fake out and lightning rod in singles? Okay, you switch in Raichu for free and do some chip, but it's not like it's going to do much after whereas in doubles that's potentially a game winning move to protect your sweeper with redirection and then stall another turn with fake out.

>>58167301
>this pokemon can use scarf and band at the same time
>or 2 bands to more than double its attack
>also give it a massive movepool
>this is perfectly balanced

>>58166443
where is wolfe

>>58166293 (OP)
WOW that's a lot of bad looking gen 5 pokemon

If they were going to make the genies broken couldn't they at least make the designs good instead of bottom 10 in the whole fucking franchise?

Yes

>>58166293 (OP)
I just realized that Talonflame is the only gen 6 pokemon to ever win worlds.

>>58167301
>think Landorus is the be all end all of competitive balance
What does this even mean?

>>58167301
Landorus is barely Top 30 in Gen 6 OU today

>>58168883
It means they ban pokemon until landorus is usable

>>58168883
Because Gen 6 mons are flops that only exist to prop up Kanto

>>58168904
Why do you think that? What's your evidence?

>>58167284
>There's more board states, though! It doesn't matter that Incineroar gets 90+% usage because every Incineroar is personalized!

>>58166293 (OP)
> 3 times
Ah, it's so great to be the king

>>58168911
My evidence is that they ban pokemon until landorus is usable

>>58169044
Such as?

>>58169047
And your evidence that they were banned to "make Landorus usable"?

>>58169048
because they have no reason to be banned otherwise

>>58169050
They all have reasons to be banned and you can read their suspect test threads for those reasons if you want. None of them include "making Landorus usable". Many of these were banned before Landorus was even in the game.

>>58169052
>They all have reasons to be banned
yeah, with that reason being "they're too strong compared to landorus"

>and you can read their suspect test threads for those reasons if you want
"it's too strong compared to landorus and we need to keep landorus in OU instead of just letting it drop because it's weaker than these newer pokemon" is the only reason they use and it proves my point

>>58166293 (OP)
How did Ludicolo get the double? Swift Swim + Grass Type as an anti-Kyogre tech?

>>58169054
Well that's just not true.

>>58169059
except it is

>>58169018
Incineroar's purpose in life has changed a little because covert cloak and clear amulet exist. As you can tell, people still slap it on teams because it's a bulky swiss knife with good typing and capable of excellent chip, but I don't think many have realized how those items will affect it long term.

>>58169057
Also fake out.

>>58166448
>spore vs spore final
looks like it's time for another Intimidate nerf

>>58167284
>far fewer board states
Sheer number of board states is irrelevant when most options (in singles and doubles) are useless. Sure, attacking your own teammate is a board state that singles doesn't have, but is almost always useless outside of very specific circumstances. Meaningful board states is what matters, and the numbers between single and doubles is often fairly close.

love gastrodon

>>58170122
They're not close, twice the options, twice the prediction. All you need to do is know when to go for a dangerous prediction vs when to play it safe.
Put Farigiraf and Groudon on the field against Kyogre and Incin. The number of likely plays far outnumbers what's possible in singles with a Kyogre vs Groudon lead.

>>58166293 (OP)
the sad part is you can tell which ones have been powercrept and will never show up again

>>58170173
More prediction guessing games does not equal more strategy. There's a reason VGC placements are so inconsistent and even top players often get knocked out in early rounds, VGC has way too much randomness even for Pokemon.

>>58170869
>it's all random and there's no way to play the game with strategy sorry!
There should be an entire argument archetype for this cope.
Best of 3 format largely fixes this issue. Giovanni didn't win by luck, the dude outplayed everyone at the tournament by a country mile with a pairing that prior to the tourney I thought was so suboptimal that we wouldn't see it in day 2.
The vgc meta evolves over a season, so what worked at NAIC did not take top spot at Worlds. That's most of the inconsistency and Michael Kelsch can cope about his bad takes on the meta too.(he's really good, but he called the winning paring a fraud lmao)

>>58166293 (OP)
you forgot sylveon, retard

>>58166549
No one cares about rillaboomer

>>58170882
>>it's all random and there's no way to play the game with strategy sorry!
That's not what I said. Obviously VGC takes skill, my point is that it also has an undue amount of randomness to it. All competitive Pokemon does, but it's especially bad in VGC.

>>58166963
smogon doubles is the best, fuck vgc

>>58166293 (OP)
>omgonbird won once and got nerfed to the literal ground next generation
>meanwhile incelroar keeps getting new toys that it doesn't even need every generation

>>58171295
There's nothing that makes rng uniquely bad in vgc and you can't articulate why either.

>>58166293 (OP)
>like 20 are good designs
>the other 41 are abysmally ugly

>>58166293 (OP)
Empoleon? Based

ITT: people crying about competitiveformats they're not gonna play anyway

>>58173306
NOOOO DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT I NEED TO BITCH ABOUT FORMATS I'M NOT FORCED TO PLAY
SO THEREFORE I MUST DRAG ANY THREAD MENTIONING ANYTHING REMOTELY RELATED TO COMPETITIVE INTO YET ANOTHER SMOGON/VGC FLAMEWAR
THINK OF HIROSHIMOOT'S HECKIN METRICS HE CAN SHOW THE ADVERTISERS and don't you fucking dare imply that the average slide thread on /v/ contributes more to the site's post rate than random arguments on /vp/

How does vp cope with the fact that incineroar has been so insanely based since design leak AND is also a top 5 competitive Pokémon of all time?

>>58167301
Baxcalibur ban was worse