Thread 58410326

>Red canonically loses to Ethan/Lyra, Nate/Rosa, and Elio/Selene
>Cynthia loses to Lucas/Dawn, Hilbert/Hilda, Nate/Rosa, and Elio/Selene
>they still get wanked as being the strongest ever
Literal genwunners and zoomers who started with gen 1/4 are ruining this fanbase

>Never loses except to some fuckass chosen one
>Get called a jobber

>>58410326 (OP)
Stay mad. I bet your favorite character has no chance of appearing again

>Being autistic about the game letting the player beat NPC's.
Nigger, if they made a new gen 1 wank game staring adult Red starting fresh and let you fight all those protagonists, Red would be stomping them because he's the one currently being controlled by the player.

>>58410326 (OP)
>>they still get wanked as being the strongest ever
Isn't that just a gacha thing so irrelevant?

GF just lets you fight them as returning characters for funsies. None of those actually happens im afraid. Red is also the only canon mc according to GF so. Everyone else is an assistant/contestfag

>>58410326 (OP)
>>they still get wanked as being the strongest ever
strongest NPC trainers*
of course they are
everyone you listed there are just the Player - avatars for (You).

Player > Cynthia/Red > rest

>>58412147
GF also gave only these two - lvl 88 aces

>>58410326 (OP)
and sinnohfetuses think TPC hates them

>>58410326 (OP)
Calem/Serena not getting any mentions in ZA at all should put to end to all this MC shit. Just stop. They do not care about them. They are (You). They are not an actual character. Its (You)r journey, not theirs. Get it over with unless its Red

>>58410326 (OP)
Masters is fanfiction sloppa

>>58412184
>Player > Cynthia/Red > rest
^ this lol
Why autistic poketurds cant grasp a simple concept?

>>58410370
But Kiki..you lost by Nemona..

>>58410370
Nemona kicked his ass with extreme ease, even he preferred to face a horde of hypnotized zombies than face Nemona again.

>>58410326 (OP)
With the legendaries still roaming free after you supposedly caught them, I no longer trust any bullshit that's assumed to be canon. GF doesn't care about timelines or canon, they prefer to leave everything vague. We don't even know for sure who won between Gold and Red. We'll never know.

Also, I think there are characters who have been treated with more respect than Red and Cynthia. Their existence in SM is lame. They even lowered the level of their Pokémon. Fucking Anabell and Ingo got a more interesting story than being simple NPCs who jump straight into battle. If anything, the gacha shit is an exception

>>58412455
>With the legendaries still roaming free after you supposedly caught them
There are just simply multiple versions of them. Yes, it's dumb but that's how GF decided it to be.

>>58412455
>They even lowered the level of their Pokémon.
then in LGPE and BDSP they got lvl 85+ teams again (with Cynthia getting a lvl 88 ace to match HGSS Pikachu)

>>58412469
Only some of them. Gamefreak didn't even let the lake trio be used by facility NPC's until Gen 7.

>>58412184
People seem to be unable to understand player characters have plot armor to beat everyone, but the second they stop being the player character, someone else can beat them

None of the people OP listed are some unbeatable god, and if they were to ever give Red back the playable role, they can easily just have him beat literally all those people they listed

Hell, Masters went out of their way to have Red win a 1v3 against Ethan, Rosa and Elio, which Game Freak would have had to have approved

>>58412217
This.
And canonically Leon is the strongest and undefeated.

>>58412455
Their existence in SM is not degrading. Its literally just Battle Tower Cameo as an easy way to nostalgia shill. Wally, Grimsley and Colress are there too.

>>58412689
Anon...

cheren canonically creampied lenora

>>58412725
Defeated by Ash. As was Cynthia. Red would also lose if they ever battled.

>>58412761
Ash doesn't exist in the games retard

>>58412761
>Defeated by some brat who would go on to immediately lose every other battle afterward

>>58412455
Its more embarrassing for SM that the games had to use them to shill people to buy honestly. I remember watching SM's trailer and seeing them plastered over my screen lmao. This is like if johto games marketed the Red battle to people and if Unova trailer announced that she would be in Undella town. They couldve kept them as a little surprised but they had such little faith that they did this instead

>>58412768
Cope. Ash is stronger than Leon and Cynthia.

>>58412790
than their anime versions*
game (BDSP) or Masters (Arceus blessed) Cynthia would cream Ash tho

>>58412774
>>58412790
Its funny when you remember Ash only barely won that battle against Leon, after Leon allowed him access to all the gimmicks up to that point, as well as screwing over Leon's Cinderace, who literally took no damage, just so they could end the battle on Pikachu vs Charizard

>>58412795
Ash's game counterpart (Red) low diffs Cynthia. What are we even talking about.

>>58412768
Anime >>> games when it comes to canon priority.

My problem is them taking Red (player character) and turning him into this weird pseudo-character that actually exists.
Why do the other player characters not get this treatment?

>>58412800
Shit on no-plot Horizons all you want, Ash deserved a significantly better ending than Journeys and I don't even think Best Wishes at its worst was anywhere near as intolerable

>>58412809
Red was literally the only player choice back in Gen 1, after that all other Gens have a male and female option

So there was no need to canonize a player character, since there was only one at the time

If we never got Crystal, Ethan likely would have show up in later games as well

>Ethan/Lyra
Gold. Kris. Gold and Kris beat Red.
Not faggot Ethan
And especially not Lyra
She's not canon and also ugly as fuck.

>>58412807
the anime is the only medium where Characters have actually be canonically compared and ranked

>>58412807
Pre-Gen V. The games took over after Best Wishes shat the bed

>>58412809
Because Game Freak are allergic to real sequels. If they weren't cowards and implemented this in B2W2, it would be a different story. But they didn't so now we're stuck with games being pseudo-sequels that barely build on each other and give us this shitty soft reboot setting that vaguely takes from previous installments when it feels like it

>>58412812
They shouldve just ended it at kalos. Geniunely, wouldve been the most accepted ended than whatever bullshit they had to pull in shitneys

>>58412809
Red is nostalgia bait. Same as Gen 1 as a whole. All you have to do is slap Red or Gen 1 on something and you get attention.

>>58412845
your jobber frog lost. They couldn't end Ash on that fraud team

>>58412806
>What are we even talking about.
idk, you're clearly a retarded Ashtroon

>>58410326 (OP)
>>Cynthia loses to Lucas/Dawn, Hilbert/Hilda, Nate/Rosa, and Elio/Selene
4 loses... Is that the most for a champion in the series?

>>58412812
Horizons is trash.

>>58412858
Instead they ended it on an even worse fraud team

>>58412908
Lance beats her
>Blue
>Red/Leaf
>Ethan/Kris/Lyra (Silver too in a double battle in HGSS)
>Nate/Rosa
>Fucking TRACE
>Chase/Elaine

>>58412929
>(Silver too in a double battle in HGSS)
Silver loses in any other circumstance and he knew it, which is why he changed the proposed teams.

>>58412908
thats 1 loss - to the Player

>>58412929
>Instead they ended it on an even worse fraud team
Kalos team lost to a guy who entered the league on a whim. Journeys team beat the top 3 champions. Journeys as a series might suck, but the team objectively aren't frauds, can't say the same about the Kalos jobbers unfortunately.

>>58412908
>>58412929
Damn, Cynthia and Lance putting in overtime losing to different trainers

>>58412790
Kantooooooooooo privilege

>>58412795
>game (BDSP) or Masters (Arceus blessed) Cynthia would cream Ash tho
Correct
Ash had his anime team given out on SWSH - pic related. BDSP Cynthia rapes it brutally
Masters goes without saying, she is the #1 strongest trainer there in official matches

>>58412960
Your Journey’s team is held together by even more plot armor than the frog. There's a reason its so hated, even if plot armor exists the writing is so bad thats why no one likes it and there's constant debate over the fights. If it was well written no one would have a problem

>>58412979
They're the only ones that try. Steven's a faggot who rarely seems to give a shit about fighting in the first place. Most post-N Champions don't even get a rematch in the first place they just disappear entirely after their game drops

>>58412998
>Moving the goal post
I get you're mad, but I clearly said Journeys sucked, no ones arguing that. However, the team objectively aren't Frauds, they don't throw. Glad you conceded on that.

>>58410326 (OP)
>Ethan/Lyra, Nate/Rosa, and Elio/Selene
>Lucas/Dawn, Hilbert/Hilda, Nate/Rosa, and Elio/Selene
So which of these are the true strongest?

>>58410326 (OP)
you do realized that all NPCs can be easily defeated by Real World Champions, right?

>>58413374
>So which of these are the true strongest?
Rei/Akari for catching Creation Trio + Arceus (well, its avatar)

>>58413409
Rei/Akari are likely the strongest protagonists in the series, and if they run out of Pokemon, they can just battle themselves, which no other protagonist does

>>58414193
Diantha doesn't belong here.

>>58414401
This was the era where they still tried to push XY as relevant. PokeMas came out right before SwSh so Game Freak didn't try to push Leon as part of the "Big Four" with Lance, Steven and Cynthia yet

>58410326
>>Red canonically loses to Ethan/Lyra, Nate/Rosa, and Elio/Selene
>Something that only ever happens in a mobile gacha
>Canon
>Caring about a canon post ORAS in the first place

>>58414193
>>Red, Cynthia and others
DeNA aint subtle

>>58416936
Anon... Those trainers are chosen because Red was a bonus boss in B2W2 and SMUSUM. He doesn't even lose in PokeMas, the game glazes him so hard that during the Arceus arc they have him solo Ethan, Rosa and Selene to show how unstoppable he is. Otherwise it literally takes Leon being blessed by Arceus to even beat Red

Know about what you're bitching about

>>58417028
>He doesn't even lose in PokeMas,
He absolutely does and not just to arc Leon. Just not much

>they have him solo Ethan, Rosa and Selene
I mean they (and most MCs) are shitters in Masters
They arent like the game MCs that beat everyone

>>58415703
>pushing leon with lance, steven and cynthia as "big four"
Jesus fucking christ are they doing that shit?? Thank fuck I dropped the game in year one. It was boring as fuck but at least I found the teams they choose pretty cool. Shoehorning leon into the 3 is retarded

>>58410326 (OP)
Red pulls his punches by using a Pikachu and letting Mewtwo and the legendary birds rot in the PC.

>>58410326 (OP)
Red avenged all of those.

>>58417060
I mean, why shouldn't they? I'd say Leon fits in very well with Cynthia, Steven, and Lance's group, unlike other champions like Iris or Geeta. Steven and Cynthia are especially beloved by Japanese fans, and while Leon doesn't rival them in popularity, if I'm not mistaken, he's one of the most popular SwSh characters

>>58417051
>Blue still isn't wearing a lab coat yet

>>58417333
Because Masters from the beginning set a 3 person team theme. It made sense given their battle mechanics and player groups like red/blue/leaf as well. Lance, Steven and Cynthia's group in particular works really well and fans even call them 国内チャンプ the domestic champion team since theyre from the japanese regions. It just doesn't make sense to shoehorn another member.

Leon shouldve just had a galar group with Raihan and another person.

>>58417060
>>58417333
that anon is wrong
They dont really push Leon with the og trio of champs - they are pretty distinct and separate
for 5-th anni - those 3 (Cynthia, Steven, Lance) got anni pairs. Leon came after

I think in Masters Leon mostly hangs out with Galar chars
The last he did was fight Red

>>58417364
They don't push Leon as part of that trio. We know you don't know anything about Mastersex and are just talking out of your ass.

>>58417354
I think you're confusing Gary with Blue, mate

>>58412820
Based

>>58412184
Pretty much this. The MCs in the main games besides Red have no canon character. They have no lines or personality beyond "protagonist". They're entirely blank slates who (You) inhabit so you're the strongest. Red and Cynthia are a tier below then comes everyone else.

>>58418848
Interesting because, from what I understand, in Mastersex it's the opposite, the MCs were given personalities and some quirks, while Red is the only one who doesn't speak

>>58419492
Their personalities are reflective of the games they originate from. They aren't super drastic, but it's fun actually watching them animate and speak instead of just being dolls. HGSS kind of cemented Red as being the quiet battle autist going forward though, if not B2W2 when they brought him back doing the same bit

>>58419492
You're correct. Its pretty clear the other guy doesn't even play it.

>>58419492
Yes in Mastersex MCs are NPCs with some "personality"
Most are also MUCH weaker than the godlike player MCs in games
some arent even proper trainers
Dawn = contest girl
Lucas = lab assistant

Red/Cynthia are still the strongest tho in Masters (well, right now Cynthia is ahead, because she already got the arc suit buff, Red still hasnt yet)

>>58419613
>well, right now Cynthia is ahead, because she already got the arc suit buff, Red still hasnt yet
This is headcanon. Red is still the strongest without the Arc suit.

>>58419662
without the arc suit he lost to arc l*on
also >>58417051