Thread 11813307

>$599 USD for the console and one crappy controller
>additional crappy controller $100
>memory card $200
>good arcade controllers $299 each
>games $200-400
>slightly limited compared to "real" arcade boards, couldn't get enough sprites going at once to make arcade perfect ports
>treat third party devs like shit, so they lose interest
>have to make all the games yourself
>no evidence it was ever rented in an official SNK program, just one or two flyers from before it was even launched mention this plan

>>11813307 (OP)
it was targeting a different market than typical consoles

>decide to make system more affordable
>but, don't want to make it too good and compete with overpriced carts
>so create CD-based system with single speed drive with ZERO FUCKING CACHE to ensure load times are atrocious
>also continue policy of freezing out 3rd party developers

>after CD system starts to flop, concentrate efforts on making a BLACK AND WHITE handheld with the POWER of the ORIGINAL GAME BOY ten years after the Game Boy came out
>much weaker than neo-geo
>call it neo-geo anyways to see if you can fool suckers into thinking they got a real Neo-Geo
>nobody buys it so put out color version the very next year, which also nobody buys

>>11813307 (OP)
I find it hard to believe anyone would shell hundreds of dollars for a console, then hundreds more dollars for any single game, over spending a couple bucks at the arcade every now and then even if they were moderately wealthy.

>with almost no money in the bank, and at the same time that commodity off the shelf 3D is making headway, decide to sink the rest of the cash into the Hyper Neo Geo 64
>release 7 games for it, go out of business finally
>wind up like Sega, selling IP out to gatcha game makers on shartphones

All that said, I love Samurai Shodown and its successors. And Baseball Stars, even though I don't care for baseball it's great.

>>11813310
How many home systems did they even sell? SNK fans will say they sold a 'gorillion' Neo-Geos and then calculate the maximum market cap of SNK stock at their height and claim this is PROFIT FROM SELLING GAMES AND SYSTEMS and not mere market speculation.

>>11813307 (OP)
I mean, it was actually good bang for buck wasn't it?
From like 1990 to 1999 they were making games for it.

You could go from Fatal Fury all the way to Garou and Art of Fighting 3 on the same hardware somehow.
That shit is like black magic to me. How did that work technically?

>>11813307 (OP)
It probably made more sense in Japan where SNK was much bigger and their economy was booming. In the US though they were more niche. It would be like if Atlus made an expensive boutique console after Persona 3 became a semi hit. Like yeah you might get some hardcore Fatlusers to buy it but for most people nobody would care

I don't know but I've wanted one for years and I'm jealous of anybody who has one. I've come into some money recently, maybe I'll finally take the dive.

>>11813345
>I mean, it was actually good bang for buck wasn't it?
If you like KOF or Samurai Shodown and were apt to play it so much that you'd have spent more than $1000 on it at the arcade, yes.

>From like 1990 to 1999 they were making games for it.
I never said it didn't have good games. Some of the games were great. I liked SS and sequels better than Street Fighter 2. As I said, Baseball Stars is still the world's greatest ever baseball game IMHO. Heck even the one RPG was fun even if it smacked more of a 16-bit title in terms of how it looked and played. I played it.

>You could go from Fatal Fury all the way to Garou and Art of Fighting 3 on the same hardware somehow.
That shit is like black magic to me. How did that work technically?
Every system is like this, the devs get more comfortable as time goes on, dev tools get better, etc. You can't find a home system (that didn't TOTALLY flop) where you can't see this progression over time.

>>11813367
I think the biggest probably was their evident hostility to third party developers. They also only delivered one RPG, total, and didn't even translate it into English, not even when CD came out. That was a TOTAL misread of the market. And their platform games? Well I hate to say it but they played stiffly / sloppily. Just... not fun. Excepting Metal Slug of course. You ever slog through Magician Lord, one of the PREMIER launch titles? Shit slotting floppies in NAM-1975 was way more fun that that game sucked too.

>>11813373
You can buy one of the new games they made like a couple years ago for $800 too, really wow your fellow Redditors.

>>11813375
>Every system is like this, the devs get more comfortable as time goes on, dev tools get better, etc. You can't find a home system (that didn't TOTALLY flop) where you can't see this progression over time.
But there's a major difference in going from Street Fighter 2 type graphics, or Street Fighter 3 type graphics on the same hardware.

>>11813375
I don't have anybody to "wow" because I have no form of social media and no friends. I would be the only one sniffing and masturbating to old plastic, and I'm okay with that.

>>11813384
Sony went from the PS2 having jaggy fuzzy looking graphics at the very start to full HD smooth nearly photorealistic rendering by the end of the console's life too.

>>11813385
I wouldn't buy into a system without already knowing that it's worth it for the games, personally.

>>11813307 (OP)
It was mostly sold to hotels and rentals. Regular people didn't buy it.

>>11813307 (OP)
So why was this thing so expensive when it had the same processor as the Genesis?

>>11813307 (OP)
These Neo Geo systems feel like hollow empty plastic when you pick one up. I wasn't impressed with it when it first came out.

>>11813373

They're not worth investing in. The pricing wasn't the only reason it failed. All of the games felt like cheap imposters except the Metal Slug series.

If you had an arcade cabinet which was set up for JAMMA boards at the time, you could buy a JAMMA game for $250 and pop it into your cabinet. Two hand-sized PCB's in plastic doesn't make a game good.

>>11813504
RAM was way more expensive than a 68000 cpu

>>11813491
>and rentals
There is zero proof of this actually. They said they were going to do that before the console ever released - ONE TIME - but never ever talked about it ever again.

>>11813504
It had more / better supporting circuitry. More RAM, etc. It was the beefiest home console of the era for sure, maybe the PC-Engine beat it at sprites, IDK. That had no games either.

>>11813307 (OP)
The AES was always meant to be a niche system, it was for people who wanted arcade games in the home and were willing to pay a premium for it.
There were shops in Japan at the time that sold used arcade PCBs and superguns for hundreds of dollars for people that wanted a true arcade experience at home. The AES seemed like a pretty good deal compared to that especially since you could get games at affordable prices while they were new instead of having to wait 3-5 years when arcades sold them off because they were no longer profitable.

>>11813581
>The AES was always meant to be a niche system, it was for people who wanted arcade games in the home and were willing to pay a premium for it.
Wait I thought it was always supposed to be a rental you know for like parties and to check out from the video game or video rental place? I'm so confused...

Like the marketing people at SNK.

>>11813585
>Wait I thought it was always supposed to be a rental
It wasn't. See >>11813578
It was always meant as a home console which is why nearly every Neo Geo game has an AES mode built-in to have it function like a console game, instead of just being the regular arcade game set to free play like the CPS Changer was.

>>11813307 (OP)
>>slightly limited compared to "real" arcade boards, couldn't get enough sprites going at once to make arcade perfect ports
What? AES games are the same as MVS games.

>>11813597
Nah what they did was design a system with the same games for arcade and home, package 'em differently, and sell to both markets. But because they didn't want to eat into their own arcade business, they made the home system version totally unaffordable. They sat and the money rolled in from the arcades, and blew it all on other stuff instead of immediately designing the successor to the Neo-Geo. Finally as the money started to run out they slapped the cart games on a purposefully crippled CD version of the Neo-Geo (mind you they were still selling the arcade and home cart versions too) in an attempt to raise cash so they could waste it on recreating the Game Boy.

Something happened with that company, they got high on their own supply. Best games came out right at the start and then saw small incremental improvements, they hardly threw a lot of effort at making new software. Every decision was a disaster and then amended when it was too late right from day one but it was just a damn good system and the cabs were cheaper than a lot of the competition too.

>>11813608
Compared to the REAL arcade boards at that time that the MVS was competing against. It wasn't the state of the art at least not by say 1993 even.

>>11813613
>state of the art
The games still looked and played better than the overwhelming majority of home releases and did a good enough job of holding their own against other more advanced early to mid-90s arcade games. That said, yes, there was definitely enough of a market for cheaper games which made use of the cartridge swapping format to warrant it being made. Even Sega released the ST-V board AFTER their more powerful Model 2 hardware, because the arcade market was big enough to have games ranging from cutting edge powerhouses to cheaper, less impressive budget games.

Scott the Woz thread

>>11813632
>The games still looked and played better than the overwhelming majority of home releases
Sure until like 1995 with the Playstation.

>>11813307 (OP)
You don't know enough about the AES to make this thread.
Do more research and lurk more.

>>11813337
>How many home systems did they even sell?
Enough to print money and keep the company alive for 15 years despite other projects failing badly.

>>11813671
I do, I know all the relevant details.

>>11813672
>Enough to print money and keep the company alive for 15 years despite other projects failing badly.
Part of that was also the sale of common stock.

>>11813375
>Every system is like this, the devs get more comfortable as time goes on, dev tools get better, etc. You can't find a home system (that didn't TOTALLY flop) where you can't see this progression over time.
God I wish this was still true so much. Modern consoles don't really get their Tales of Phantasia or God of War 2 moment anymore. The best performance and fidelity you'll ever see is at the start of a generation

>>11813676
Well is there any real difference between say a PS4 and a PS5? Not really. We're at the end of history as far as consoles go.

>>11813463
Yeah but some early PS2 games looked really good like ICO, MGS2, SH2 or GT3. Some good developers knew how to work with the hardware. Your average PS2 game looked jaggy and blurry.

>>11813307 (OP)
It's an enthusiast console for people who actually like video games and want the best AV experience money can buy in 1990.

>>11813307 (OP)
>>good arcade controllers $299 each
you can make your own for 50-100

>>11813345
>From like 1990 to 1999 they were making games for it.

up to 2005. they milked the fuck out of it

>>11813307 (OP)
It was the closest thing you could get for real arcade games at home, but only for rich people kids. Neo Geo was the holy grail back then. Nintendo kids wouldn't understand.

>>11813307 (OP)
>>good arcade controllers $299 each
I don't know if that's correct but I do know it that would be a humongous rip-off because there were arcade controllers using the same lever and switches for the other gaming platforms that were nowhere near that price.

>>11814443
Yeah but they weren't Neo-Geo branded, silly.

>>11813345
>That shit is like black magic to me. How did that work technically?
They added more cart space to store more animations. That's all. Neogeo was one console where they had no black magic, they just brute forced the problem with more space. The last few games even had FMVs and a pre-recorded music streaming engine.

Note that the system can only push so many pixels per second, so Garou has very small characters and simpler backgrounds (the more complex backgrounds like Kevins stage actually lag the game down). That was its one downside.

>>11813504
>So why was this thing so expensive when it had the same processor as the Genesis?

It had a lot more memory and it was expensive SRAM, twice as many discrete components, a ten times as expensive sound chip, and the cartridges held like 40 times as many ROM chips. They also didn't start aggressively cost reducing the chipset until the mid-late 90s. Genesis got cost reduced chipsets immediately and by 92 it was a 1-chip + 2x cpu + ram, by 95 it was 1-chip + ram, while the Neogeo was still dozens of chips in 96 and less than ten in 1999.

>>11813632
>Sega released the ST-V board AFTER their more powerful Model 2 hardware

The Model 2 costs tens of thousands per system, the STV was a few hundred dollars, and they released it because they had a massive over stock of Saturn chipsets that they could put into arcade cabs.

Is the PSP version of this compilation worth anybody's time and money?
Forums agree that the PS2 version is crap, and a lot of forum posts about the PSP version are saying the PSP version is fine and that the detractors are confusing it with the PS2 release.

>>11815021
Neo Geo also can stream assets directly from the cart bypassing RAM. Many consoles like SNES, Genesis or N64 can't do this despite also using cart media.

>>11815116
>Neo Geo also can stream assets directly from the cart bypassing RAM.
It just maps the cart in memory.

>Many consoles like SNES, Genesis or N64 can't do this despite also using cart media.
They all map the carts in memory too, they don't load assets into RAM and then go. They stay on the cart.

>>11815262
Yeah, my mistake. I meant VRAM, not RAM. Neo Geo does not store graphics in VRAM, unlike regular consoles.

>>11815276
True dat.

>>11815063
Isn't this version locked to 30 fps?

>>11815317
Metal Slug games are 30 fps on Neo Geo, in case you didn't know

>>11813307 (OP)
It wasn't crappy. Also they were targeting yuppies who wanted arcade at home.

>>11815317
30 fps is literally all you need.

>>11813504
I guess that was enough because the actual guts were in the cartridges themselves - as each of them was essentially a miniaturized arcade board, which is why all of the non-CD games for the NeoGeo were so damn expensive?

>>11815317
>>11815381
>>11815465
Okay but is the PSP compilation good?

>>11815771
Yes it's based. PSP is unironically the Neo Geo Pocket Color. The REAL one.

>>11813307 (OP)
> it's this retarded schizo again
>>no evidence it was ever rented in an official SNK program
you've been saying this for several years and despite all the proof shown to you, this lame as fuck bait is all you have left to farm (yous). killing yourself would be the only solution i can think of that would not only benefit this board but humanity as a whole.

>>11815049
>they released it because they had a massive over stock of Saturn chipsets that they could put into arcade cabs.
ST-V and many games came out before the Saturn was released, there was no overstock of chips.

>>11813307 (OP)
>>$599 USD for the console and one crappy controller
balls of steel? No? More like squishy olives right?
>>additional crappy controller $100
The controller is the best controller released in the 90s. Out of them all.
>>memory card $200
most PCMCIA cards will do. Lurk more noob.
>>good arcade controllers $299 each
huh? Are you ok OP?
>>games $200-400
Mask roms cost money, lol.
>>slightly limited compared to "real" arcade boards, couldn't get enough sprites going at once to make arcade perfect ports
Neo Geo MVS and AES are identical hardware.
>>treat third party devs like shit, so they lose interest
Stuff that never happened.
>>have to make all the games yourself
The fuck?
>>no evidence it was ever rented in an official SNK program, just one or two flyers from before it was even launched mention this plan
<- - -

>>11813321
>nobody buys it so put out color version the very next year, which also nobody buys

The color unit came out barely 5 months after the B&W. No hardware product goes from conception to store shelves in that short time. And that's if the day the B&W went on sale they decided "this is a flop," let's do color.
The color system was already well into the development pipeline at that point. I always thought it was weird they released the B&W unit with color around the corner.

>>11813345
Developers learned trick to get more out of the system, and chip costs made it less prohibitive to sell larger ROM sizes.

The Atari 2600 got some pretty impressive games 10-15 years into its initial run (but everyone already moved on to the NES and 16bit systems by then.) And homebrew devs of recent have put out stuff that wouldn't look too out of place in an early 80s arcade.

>>11819139
Releasing anything impressive at all on the 2600 is impressive because it is horribly under-powered 1970s tech.
Whereas the first console that was a complete, 100% across the board upgrade on the Neo-Geo was the Dreamcast, nearly a decade later.

>>11819080
Not a rental unit, that's a coin-op AES for hotel use.

>>11813307 (OP)
>What were they thinking?
Dunno WHAT they were thinking, but, me and all my young kid mates were jizzing our pants so so fucking hard that we all made friends with this one rich Chinese kid we all hated, just so we could go over there and bask in all of it's heavenly glory- and, it WAS like heaven! EVERYTHING at that time was marketed as "just like the arcades, IN YOUR OWN HOME!!!1one!" and, the Neo Geo was the only thing that delivered. (Unless you knew someone with a supergun, and we weren't even sure if those things were actually real or not at the time)

>>11819080
Ooooh, I've never seen one of those before. Very cool. You sound pretty angry tho. Chill out, brother. The sega/nintendo wars are more of the speed I believe things should be argued about... We're clearly all fucking living in the past, souting about stoff the almost no-one cares about. You sound like you need a hug. I wish I could give you a non sexual, entirely hetero, hug and then maybe play some SFII or something.

>>11819669
You don't seem to understand. For some people the console wars never ended. We have this one "Anti-Neo Geo" guy who stalks threads and screams about how Neo Geos were never rentals, and says there's no proof.

He's been doing it for around 5 years now. And I only know that because I started browsing this board 5 years ago, but I suspect the Anti-Neo Geo guy has been doing it much longer.

>>11819753
Ahh. Gotcha. I should've thought that might be something deeper than my surface level of reading the thread. I haven't been around this place for ages, but I remeber when I used to be here a lot- how fucking annonying some people used to get and how it'd get under everyone's skin- even the people whoo said that it didn't and 'just ignore them, they'll go away!' ... 'don't feed the trolls!' etc; but, they don't go away and it never stops being annoying.
Anything similar to that?
I don't even want to mention what board I used to frequent, let alone who the cunt was- in fear that he's still out there waiting for someone to mention him so he can spring back into action.

This was maybe 10 years ago and maybe I'm missing the point, but, I think 'not feeding them' IS the best solution there is. There's always SOMEONE who didn't get the memo, or got pissed off enough that the HAD to reply.

Sorry if I brought up 'Nam flashbacks. Stay strong. Hold the line.

>For some people the console wars never ended
That sounded pretty cool! Hehe.

Peace, brother.
Hey. What's your 'comfy game? Modern or retro- (a lot of people go minecraft/teraria/stardew valley) I played minecraft in it's late beta state and found that pretty relaxing. You got anything?

Also looking to find out more about how people are playing retro games with one another online these days- and trying to find some cunts who might wanna play streetfighter, snow bros, bomberman, bubble bobble, double dragon, 194X... I dunno, stuff that was cool back in the stone ages when I was a kid.

Gimme a shout maybe!?

4chanbullshit@proton.me

(account JUST for this purpose, NOTHING else - password is used NOWHERE else at ALL)

>>11819890
Yeah dude, I don't use email. Can you call me if I give you my phone number here on the board?

>>11819864
I only know of a few trolls.


1. "Anti-Neo Guy/Neo Geo hater" - this dude talks about how Neo Geos were never rentals despite all proof shown to him.

2. Arcade cabinet hater - This guy ruins every single arcade thread and yells about how arcade cabinets are nothing but quarter munching machines and we're all fools for going to at adea. That anyone with a brain would use emulation and stay at him.


3. Sega of Japan fanboy - He shows up in every Sega related thread. As you know Sega used to be big back in the 1990s then crashed. They had 3 branches: Sega of Japan (headquarters), Sega America, and Sega Europe. Sega Japan refused to listen to the needs of the other branches and Sega Japan crashed the company. Eventually Sega Japan declared bankruptcy.

Anyway, this fanboy shows up in every Sega thread. He screams about how it's all Western peoples' fault. That Sega Japan did nothing wrong. That Sega Japan made no mistakes with Sega Saturn or Sega 32x or any other Sega Japan ideas. And that it's all Westerners fault for not buying more Sega products and not having refined taste to appreciate Sega.


4. "Metal Slug / 1CC fanboy" - This guy shows up in every thread related to Metal Slug or other famous Neo Geo games. He has some random YouTube channel that I don't remember or care about. He screams about how no one has truly beaten a game unless they do it on 1 credit (via emulation). If you try to point out that that using emulation, save states, autofire, or other aids is cheating...then he gets very upset saying that's not fair. Since he uses them.


5. I don't really have a nickname for this guy, but he stalks all threads related to gaming World Records. He's a huge fanboy about Japan. He says that only Japan counts for World Records. That records outside of America don't count. That all the world's "real super players" live in Japan. That no one else can compare. He basically spits on gaming records achieved in America or Europe.

That's all I know

>>11819932
I hope that was a joke mate. Do NOT post your phone number on here. (or anywhere else online!)

Takes about 1 minute to set up an online emaill adress that you ONLY use for unimportant stuff.

I'm 99% sure you were joking, but- if not, please please don't post your phone number online ANYWHERE, nevermind this shit shop.

Stay safe mate.

>>11820076
ahhh.... fuck 'em! that trolling is probably their biggest and only source of feeling powerful in their whole lives. I'm old as fuck, older than the internet and over the years, my hatred and annoyance for these kind of people, has changed into a cross between indifference and actual sorrow for them.

Anyway, enjoy yourself mate, do what makes you happy and don't worry too much about anyone else telling you you're wrong or weird- in their eyes, it may be true that you're wrong and/or weird, and that's fine! If it bothers them enough to have to shout about it, let them shout. IMO, having them shout in an empty room at a blank wall makes me smile a little bit.

Peace!

>>11813307 (OP)
>slightly limited compared to "real" arcade boards, couldn't get enough sprites going at once to make arcade perfect ports
what drug are you using? wonder that because neogeo was like this.
>mod pin cartridge slot.
>done
>play arcade versions of games because arcade version was cheaper then "port".

>>11813324
Exactly. The cool wealthy slightly older successful dude who could throw down at the arcade machine would get ALL the pussy. All the teens would be gape-jawed as he fucked their girlfriends one after the other.

Playing at home by yourself is incel fuel.

>>11814443
This is an elite system for the very few well heeled gentlemen arcade-masters. $299 for controller ($962 in today's money) is cheap.

>>11820216
>what drug are you using?
It's not the drug baby. It's the metabolite.

>>11813307 (OP)
They were thinking they had to sell fewer consoles and could make sales to places like hotels, and rental shops. You miserable underage youtube meme posting cock sucking sped.

>>11821243
>They were thinking
For about two seconds. Anyway you're the zoomer if you believe ONE BROADSHEET AD with zero followup means a company executed on some plan.

I just don't get it though, why are you Redditors so fixated on the rental program for which there is no evidence? It's like a point of personal honor for you, which is weird because your type doesn't even BELIEVE in honor.

What's your angle?

>>11813307 (OP)
You could launch that thing today with zero changes and it would still look as modern as anything else you can buy off the shelf.

>>11821983
>no blinding blue or white LEDs
>no RGB swirling colors
>no embossed extreme dragon or robot face
Disagree.

Is there any reason to get a US AES instead of a jap model, aside from the moonrunes? Also, what's the best flashcart?

>>11822093
no reason to get a us aes instead of jap model. easy to change region with bios mod or flashcart. I think neo sd pro is the best flash cart. the darksoft one might load a little faster for certain games, but i like that neo sd pro can boot right into the game and behaves a real cart once you've flashed it. i believe the darksoft always boots into a menu first

>>11822228
Thanks for the info. Any other tips, general advice etc? I've been wanting a neo for a good 20 years and now that flashcarts are a thing, dropping $600 on the console doesn't seem so insane. Just want to make sure I get one in good condition and keep it in good condition.

>>11822228
>>11822237

Don't listen to the other guy. Just buy a consolized Neo Geo MVS. Millions were produced for arcade cabinets. And after the Neo Geos were retired from arcades, many arcade boards from MVS are float around in the used marketplace. People mod them into home consoles.

>>11822273
If it is an aesthetic thing, they make MVS consoles that look similar to AES like this one. There are a ton of consolized MVS designs, they've gotten pretty creative with it.

>>11822273
>>11822376
It's mostly just wanting to fulfill an old dream, and having a piece of history that I spent my adolescence drooling over. I know the hardware is almost identical but I need that stinky old plastic, man.

>>11813307 (OP)
>>11813310
>>11813324
>ywn be a gen xer in the 90s spending half your paychecks on vidya and the latest tech
why even live?

>>11822237
Go to Neo-geo dot com and read the info there. Old crusty forum filled with misanthropes and curmudgeons but best source of info for lots of NG stuff.

>>11822440
>tfw you will never be a successful gen x businessman fresh out of law school in 2000 who just bought an AES and 5 games on a whim as a reward for himself, and is staying at a Courtyard by Marriott on a business trip where he chainsmokes cigars in the room and plays his new neo geo before curling up with a bottle of tanqueray and falling asleep to the latest episode of The Soprano's he paid to view through the hotel's optional HBO add-on

>>11822454
Holy based if true

>>11822443
I've browsed it a couple times but I'll give it a proper look over, thanks.

>>11822460
Once you have your aes and flash cart, resist the urge to start buying real aes games. That can get out of hand fast

>>11813307 (OP)
It's pretty much "we have part of the arcade at home" even if it wasn't 1:1 in some cases. But in most? It may as well have been, so it can pretty much sell on that alone. Consider that its competition were inherently much, MUCH weaker and trying to actually recreate those same experiences much more loosely, where the SNES and Genesis simply couldn't even match up for what the AES could manage.
It just had a very niche appeal because of that higher price point, and it kinda sounds like you're just angry about SNK.

>>11822470
I feared as much, it wouldn't be the first time I went on a nostalgia bender. I'm tempted to forgo the flash cart entirely and just buy one single game at a time and play the ever loving shit out of it before moving onto the next, though I know that wouldn't be the most fiscally responsible thing (especially since I have no intention of ever selling the stuff).

Weird as it may sound, I'm partially pursuing this as a means of simplifying my life. I've become very weary of being surrounded by smart TVs and ipads and xboxes and "high" technology in general. I'm throwing all of my shit away, getting a shitty car from the 2010s and setting myself up a room with a CRT, a futon, a mini fridge and a neo geo.

>>11820925
>believes they would get to fuck people's girlfriends if they beat them at an arcade game
>believes anyone who plays video games at home is an incel loser
two equally retarded and contradictory takes. easily one of the worst posts i've read on 4chan

>>11822535
you can tell he hasn't even been to an arcade based on his statements being propositions rather than experiences, though i'm sure he'll deny otherwise. the entire generation of people born between 2000 and 2012 need to be chemically castrated, let the millenials plant a new crop because this one got fucked.

>>11822498
>>11822423
>>11822237
>Thanks for the info. Any other tips, general advice etc? I've been wanting a neo for a good 20 years and now that flashcarts are a thing, dropping $600 on the console doesn't seem so insane. Just want to make sure I get one in good condition and keep it in good condition.

I should advise you that Flashcarts have their own issues. Because they are shoving so many games onto one cart, some games have problems such as graphical glitches, flickering, sound issues in several titles, randomly resetting with some games, and problems saving progress. Also Flashcarts have compatibility problems with some MVS motherboards. Like it may work on a Neo Geo 1 slot, but fail to work with a Neo Geo 6 slot.

I don't know why the creators of these Flashcarts don't fix these issues, but I guess they figure 80% compatibility is good enough and don't want to invest time and money to fix it. Also scrolling through a menu with a Flashcarts is rather mundane and a killjoy. Sometimes yoy just want to jump into a game without scrolling, selecting, and waiting for the game to load.


Flashcarts I are an decent substitute for some games, but if you want the real "Neo Geo" experience then I recommend buying the original carts. You don't need to buy the ENTIRE Neo Geo library. Just pick a few titles that are your favorites. For me, I collected all the Metal Slug carts. I wanted the original fun Experience and didn't want to ruin it with a potentially glitch cart.

>>11823027
Very good advice, I thought that might be an issue as I dealt with something similar using SNES flashcarts.

I think I'm going to start by buying two of the cheaper games. I've always wanted to play Magician Lord and Blazing Star, so that should keep me entertained for awhile. If I become obsessed then I'll get a flash cart for trying games before buying them, at least. I would feel kind of gay if I didn't have at least a couple "real" games for the thing, honestly.

Are there any pitfalls you know of in terms of hardware? I'm planning to buy a recapped unit (or just do it myself), but is there anything else to watch out for? I've mostly only heard good things, seems it's built like a rock on par with the N64 but I'm an not an expert.

>>11823058
>Are there any pitfalls you know of in terms of hardware?

Beware of some scammy Chinese sites and sellers. You don't know the condition of the hardware they sell. They could be selling worn out units that ran for years non-stop, and they repackage them as "new or refurbished" and use fake shrink wrap to make you think it's still factory sealed. So you buy it, but some random chip on the board fails a few months later. And now you are screwed and have to repair it yourself

Other times when they do repairs some of them use the absolute most cheapest bottom of the barrel hardware on the market. Like the cheapest caps that won't last long and other sketchy repairs. It's not ALL Chinese sellers, but enough of them do it that it makes me wary and avoid them all entirely.

If you buy from someone, get recommendations from within the community and make sure other people have given good reviews.


If you want to save some cash, try a consolized board first. These are Neo Geo boards that were originally in arcade cabinets and converted into home consoles by modders.

>I'm planning to buy a recapped unit (or just do it myself),

If you want to learn how to recap then don't practice on a working unit. Buy a broken arcade board on ebay and practice with that. Never do it on working hardware.

Alternatively you could practice on older non-functional electronics like broken Sega game gears or broken Sega 32x units, etc. Sega was notorious for using very cheap caps that fail after 10 to 15 years.

>>11823108
More good info, thanks. Don't worry, I'm not retarded and I've recapped consoles before. I'd also never consider buying something like this from some alibaba tier shit, it's eBay from a top rated japanese seller or nothing.

Only other thing I'd ask is: what's the best solution for cables and memory cards? I've seen a lot of units that come with a SCART but I'm in burgerland with a composite TV. Is the simple mono yellow/white composite cables I see the best option, are those even official?

>>11823136
My philosophy is that...I think at some point you just accept what's available and make the most of it. If all you have is a standard American TV, then connect your Neo Geo AES and just play with what you have available. Especially if you are unwilling to mod your Neo Geo AES.

Too many people get sucked into the hardware aspect and try to milk every single pixel possible out of their AES. They lose sight of their original goal which is to fulfill their childhood wish of playing Neo Geo at home.

So fulfill your childhood dream first. Play the standard vanilla AES as it was released in the 1980s/1990s. Then focus on othet things later once you've acoomplished that.

If you truly want to "tinker" and explore new options, then buy a consolized MVS board later on with all the new custom connections you could possibly want. That's much easier. Don't try to force one unit to do everything. Leave your vanilla AES alone. Or you could also buy a standard MVS arcade board and use a supergun with new connections, and buy a CRT TV with scart.

I have multiple Neo Geos in my collection. I have 4 arcade cabinets. The Neo Geo 2 slot, 4 slot, 6 slot, and a Super Deluxe rear projection showcase cabinet in my basement.
Plus a standard AES and Neo Geo CD in my smaller room.

The only one I'm missing the tiny mini Neo Geo that used to be in McDonalds (3rd in picture) for kids. It's rare. I had the chance to buy one but the seller wanted $3000, and I'm unwilling to pay that much for a Neo Geo cabinet. All of my cabinets were purchased second hand from arcades or actions. Two of them were from Laundromats where the owners were going to throw them into he dumpster during the 2010s.

All these cabinets have different games loaded depending on my mood. One is a fighter cabinet. Another is a Metal Slug cabinet. Another has sports. Another has fun and cutesy party games.

Anyway. I guess what I'm saying is don't worry about too much details and just play your games first.

I will never be a hot dog.

>>11813321
The color version was actually pretty fucking good, keep in mind they were trying to compete with the Gameboy Color and only got killed because the GBA came out right after it and absolutely buttfucked them to oblivion.
Making something that could blow the original gameboy out of the water wasn't necessarily a guaranteed victory either. The Turbo Express, Game Gear, and Atari Lynx were all more powerful than the original GB and all them didn't come close to it, especially the Lynx. And then Pokemon came out and extended the GB's lifespan even longer. Maybe the NGPC could've lasted longer if it came out earlier when fighting games had a bigger audience.

>>11823305
Thank you again for all of the info. You seem extremely passionate and knowledgeable, which is good to see. You're right, I shouldn't complicate things. I'm just gonna get a decent unit and a couple games and hook that sucker up to the old tube and crack a beer. At this point, I have to contain my excitement. I haven't been in a good financial position for most of my life, and now I finally the opportunity to treat myself, so I'm excited. Looking forward to introducing my kids to something like this, too. Cheers, lad.

>>11823358
>only got killed because the GBA came out right after it and absolutely buttfucked them to oblivion
It was discontinued nearly a year before the GBA came out.

>>11822093
I had a fighting game obsessed friend back then. He was apparently so put off by the blood in Samurai Shodown being changed to "sweat," he sold his system to another friend for a song, and sought out a Japanese unit.

>>11823430
I don't blame him, that's retarded.

what is the least arcade-like neo game?

I had a ngpc and a dc but I never had the cable link or whatever is called.

>>11823552
Shinsetsu Samurai Spirits

>>11823595
but AES/MVS specifically?

I knew some rich kids growing up. Two big ass houses on the property rich. Second one just used for storage and guests. They had CD-I, 3DO, arcade cabinets, pinball machines, pachinko machines, etc. Never a Neo Geo. That shit was next level.

>>11824113
>CD-I, 3DO
Funny thing is those two at debut were priced as high as if not more than the NeoGeo.

>>11813307 (OP)
>make an "arcade" console
>has no good arcade games like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat

>>11824161
NeoGeo 1/90
SF2 3/91
FF 11/91
MK 8/92
AOF 9/92

>make console ahead of its time
>doesn't time travel

>>11813307 (OP)
>slightly limited compared to "real" arcade boards, couldn't get enough sprites going at once to make arcade perfect ports

There was no "arcade ports" on AES, it was a literal MVS arcade machine with a few cart pins swapped around.
It Came out in 1990 and got official game releases for 14 fucking years. SNK was making a good profit in the arcade business so AES was just something fun for a niche audience, they really werent risking much by cramming their existing hardware in plastic shells.

The people who owned Neo Geo back in the day were usually the type who were well off enough not to blink twice over a few grand on another toy.

>>11823305
>>11823378
>look up a copy of Blazing Star
>$250 for a boxed copy? Hey, that's not too bad...
>Oops, that's the MVS version
>scroll around, $885 for an AES version
>U-uhh alright... maybe I'll shell out just for one game... oh wait, that's a bootleg...
>authentic CIB copy: $11,000
HOLY FUCK, alright yeah, I have a little money but my blood isn't that rich. I could bear paying a few hundred per game, but individual games going into the tens of thousands is pure insanity. I didn't realize the market had gotten that bad. It's insane to me that the consoles can be had complete in good condition with mods for like $600 (which isn't even as much as a current gen console), and yet basically nothing worth playing is under $1k. Crazy.

AES with a flash cart it is. Is the Neo SD Pro still the way to go or is there something better these days?

ITT: fools and their money

>>11825894
Where exactly are you "looking up" these prices? Please don't tell me ebay.

>>11825894
MVS to AES adapters were created for this very reason. There are far more MVS copies of games than AES copies.

>>11825894
Buy an adapter.

>>11825976
Yes, where else honestly?

>>11825894
1. Why do you need a Sealed Complete in Box copy? That's for collectors who want unopened items.

2. Just purchase a used game copy

3. Purchase an mvs to aes adapter.

Problem solved.

>>11825894
Back in the day, SNK didn't want arcade owners to buy AES games and use them in the more expensive Neo Geo MVS cabinets. So they changed the number of pins on the different game cartridges and did shorter production runs of AES games. It didn't make much of a difference since some arcade owners hooked up AES consoles inside Neo Geo cabinets. And later on people created adaptors for the two different cartridges to be cross compatible.

>>11826007
>Why do you need a Sealed Complete in Box copy?
I don't, I'd be perfectly happy with loose carts, just saying that 11k for an opened game (and the copy I mentioned is open, not even sealed) is pretty crazy is all, and the pricing for a lot of games isn't too much better. Even some of the cheaper "good" games like Neo Turf Masters are $500+ loose.

I've heard mixed things about the converters, obviously you guys know better than me but if I have to stick some big fuck off adapter into the console and play non-AES games just to play anything at all, I'd rather just go with a flash cart even if the compatibility isn't perfect.

>>11826012
>we wirr not ret the whitemenu use AES carridge in MVS
>they just buy an AES, stick it in a cab and wire up the controllers
they didn't think this one through did they

>>11826189
I've actually seen this done before. I originally thought a Neo Geo cabinet was running MVS hardware. Then they opened up the front and I saw an old AES that was bolted down by wood and a ton of ghetto looking wires and electrical tape coming out from it. I honestly wasn't even mad. I was actually impressed at the bootleggers sheer determination.

>>11813307 (OP)
Perfect ports of some of the largest games weren't possible until the sixth gen. Saturn ports needed extra memory and still weren't spot on, and the PS1 just struggled. Price tag was justified.

>>11826248
How did they launch the games in MVS mode?

are the aliexpress 161-in-1 cartridges any good?

>>11813307 (OP)
>no evidence it was ever rented in an official SNK program, just one or two flyers from before it was even launched mention this plan
Supposedly this was conflated with the MVS in Japan, where small business owners could "rent" the machine out for a percentage of the revenue it wound up making.
Supposedly. I don't know if we'll ever come into concrete evidence for the AES rental service because the nerds that claim this shit are old boomer hoarders from other parts of the world who most likely can't even read a sliver of Japanese, and we're much the same.

>>11825983
>bothering with an OSSC before upgrading the museum piece TV
why

>>11827863
The TV isn't bad. Pretty much all flat screens with 1080p will do job. You don't need 4K or 8K for retro gaming.

>>11827798
probably a unibios

>>11827839
>and we're much the same.
We have A.I. character recognition and translation now which actually works very well once you get the hang of setting the image up for it and provide the proper context. We also have magnitudes more scans of Japanese publications like Gamest and Game Machine.
I won't get into specific examples so as not to derail the thread but I've identified several instances of popular misconceptions about Japanese retro gaming in my own research over the last several years.

>>11828886
Addendum: I did have two years of Japanese in college and once had basic fluency, although I've lost most of it over the years. Still, it helps me along a bit with the process of machine translation.

>>11827930
>Pretty much all flat screens with 1080p will do job.
not true at all

>>11827839
>Supposedly this was conflated with the MVS in Japan
no, it wasn't. the consoles were bought up by hotels and video/video game rental stores.

>>11813307 (OP)
It's cheaper than buying arcade cabinets.

>>11823358
The Turbo Express had no true exclusives and fucked the resolution on some games so hard that you couldn't read anything, and it massively affected gameplay, too.

The Game Gear didn't have that many exclusives, and it chewed through batteries so fast it was legitimately unaffordable.

The Atari Lynx fucking sucked. The games were complete fuckin ass. There isn't a single good game for the system. I didn't even know it existed as a kid. Actually, I didn't know the Turbo Express of Neo Geo Pocket existed, either.

>>11829053
These are mostly true. But remember that many games that are both Master System and Game Gear only got Game Gear releases in North America, so they were regional exclusives.

>>11827839
It's on the neo-geo.com fora. They even tracked down the serial numbers and packaging of rental AES units. AEC was the product code on the plastic shell before they moved on to AES unit numbers.

https://www.neo-geo.com/forums/index.php?threads/a-sensational-discovery.139523/

https://www.neo-geo.com/forums/index.php?threads/someone-selling-a-rental-unit-on-fb-is-it-legit.269106/

>>11813307 (OP)
>>11813307 (OP)
they were thinking some rich people would like to have access to the most successful and longest lived (1990-2004) gaming platform ever

>>11823358
>the absolute state of SNK fans
Your basic facts are all wrong.

>>11825894
>>11825894
Just emulate

>>11830674
This.

>>11830674
>>11831872
Nope. I'm going to buy my toy, I'm going to enjoy wondering how many chainsmoking japanese salarymen played Samurai Shodown II on it before it ended up in my hands , and I'm going to enjoy it. Dropping $1,000 for a console, a couple controllers and a multi-cart isn't a big deal, and if I have buyer's regret I'll just shove the thing in my storage unit and sell it a profit a few years down the line. I have literally nothing to lose, and I've emulated for years but it's just not the same thing. I'm tired of intangible pleasure.

>>11813307 (OP)
It was never meant to be mass produced or sold at regular retail outlets. You're an idiot who doesn't understand historical context.

>>11832543
No it was meant for the well-heeled Japanese gentleman. Stand up please?

>>11831981
>I'm tired of intangible pleasure.
based honestly. too few are willing to admit that having cool stuff is fun. emulation is awesome these days but it doesn't provide the tactile experience of real hardware. it's fun flicking buttons on the console or inserting a memory card or holding something in your hands with some history behind it.

>>11822454
>ywn date a hot emo milleniall chick and impress her with your sick DDR moves

>>11831981
$1,000 can buy a MVS candy cabinet tho.

>>11832780
Maybe, but it's not the same. I want to switch it between TVs or throw it in a bag and bring it on vacation. Plus I'd have basically nogaemz to play other than what it comes with unless I want to shell out even more.

>>11832852
>Plus I'd have basically nogaemz to play
MVS multi-cart or MisterFPGA or emu PC.

To me I'd also consider just spending $1000 on some very nice quality arcade sticks with one of the original MVS button layouts (no home controller has an exact match) and some vintage gold-screws LS-32 and Omron buttons. Recreate the early 90s MVS controls at least.
You could even use an MVS control panel.

To me buying an AES doesn't really have that same nostalgic appeal I guess. To me it's the MVS.

>>11832543
>It was never meant to be mass produced or sold at regular retail outlets.
>Never
Then why did they do that, dumbass?
Yeah maybe at first it was rental-only, but then it WAS sold at regular retail. Do you have brain problems? Look up the word never in a dictionary sometime.

>>11832871
>MVS multi-cart
Ergo, I'd have to spend more money on top of the 1k cab (and 1k is unwitting facebook mom prices mind you, the truth is that plenty of those cabs are going for 2-3k or more unless you ).
>MisterFPGA or emu PC
Which would defeat the purpose of owning a cool piece of old technology. I can emulate neo on my PC right now, but that's not the point.
>To me buying an AES doesn't really have that same nostalgic appeal I guess. To me it's the MVS.
I don't really get this. The entire point of the AES is "the arcade experience at home". I have a lot of fond memories playing MS and other games at the movie theater, but that doesn't make me want an AES any less. They're the same machines but with different purposes, and the purpose of the AES is to have something you can enjoy in your home in the most comfortable way possible, which is what I like about it.

>>11833021
>the purpose of the AES is to have something you can enjoy in your home in the most comfortable way possible
in that case: two big heavy arcade sticks with LS-32 + 30mm buttons instead of the AES controllers.

>>11833021
>cab
Why

>>11833194
Neo Geo cabinets are cooler

>>11815063
It's okay but the problem is you're playing the PSP version. What's stopping you from playing the Wii version, or just emulating them?

>>11833194
>you abbreviated cabinet as cab, you did a heckin SNK faux pas!!!!!!
holy virgin

>>11820076
dont forget that one that claims if you played at 50hz you didnt complete the game.

and also marblefag who larps as a poorfag despite owning a lot of duplicates of expensive shit, like multiple copies of the same game across multiple platforms and regions, a lot of it obscure shit most people would have no interest in owning, then compains how he cant afford to spend $25, on some other shit he will most likely only ever use in a photo. kek

>>11834253
>marblefag
that dude is legitimately mentally ill and i don't know if larping even covers it. he got exposed once for replying to himself when he accidentally uploaded his next planned photo in response to his own post, then spent several days coping about it. i legitimately believe that 90% of the "positive" replies to his posts are actually just him talking to himself. awhile later he then claimed that he was saving up for his next purchase by doing "doordash", even though he apparently owns several hundred thousand dollars in shit. i don't know if he's a retired rich guy taking the piss or some kind of deranged manbaby living in his mom's mcmansion who never achieved anything and just amassed a hoard of toys through years of menial labor, or what.

>>11834265
>he got exposed once for replying to himself when he accidentally uploaded his next planned photo in response to his own post, then spent several days coping about it.
fucking kek i didnt know that, i did notice some of the replies do read like they were written by the same person

>i don't know if he's a retired rich guy taking the piss or some kind of deranged manbaby living in his mom's mcmansion who never achieved anything and just amassed a hoard of toys through years of menial labor, or what.
i also wondered the same and ive come to the conclusion that the answer to that question is undoubtedly yes.

>>11834253
>dont forget that one that claims if you played at 50hz you didnt complete the game.
I've never said this on here, so I know I'm NTA, but that is absolutely the case unless it was corrected. You can say you beat the PAL version of a game, but not THE game.

>>11820076
You are also on this list, you're the "if you used save states to practice for a 1cc it doesn't count" troll.

>>11834935
Ooof...

>>11834935
him editing the screenshot he posted in fucking mspaint and messing up the image is icing on the cake. dude didn't even have the decency to inspect element.

>>11834441
>if you used save states to practice for a 1cc it doesn't count"
Using save states to....practice? What does this even mean? Are you recording practice runs?

If so, are you saying you use save states for actual runs?

Are you saying that if you succeed then it counts as a 1cc? But if you fail then it's just practice w/save states?

>>11835129
this shouldn't require further explanation, anon

>>11834441
>You are also on this list, you're the "if you used save states to practice for a 1cc it doesn't count" troll.
No one really cares if you use save states for personal practice. But save states and other cheats aren't allowed in real runs. Realistically though you should train without save states to build up muscle memory and reaction speed.

>>11820076
you forgot one: the mentally ill loser that thinks he's a computer expert and has a mental breakdown every single time someone proves his bullshit to be false, attacking everyone while calling everyone "the assembly language larper", because this imaginary larper (everyone that isn't him) can't stop posting facts (i assume). it's hard to tell with this board's collective of schizo losers that the MODS REFUSE to do anything about these losers or their dangerously low iq posts, despite bringing down the board's reputation to sewer level over the last 5 or so years.

>>11813307 (OP)
>Needed to be a CD system (2X drive, 128KB of drive cache) since day 1.
>Should've used a 16MHz 68020 CPU.
>Improved graphics to include title map background layers (4 layers) and improved scaling (both zooming and shrinking rather then just shrinking, that as well as Mode 7 like effects and W, X, Y and Z axis for said scaling).
>Upgrade the YM2610 to a YM2610B and add in a YM2612 for sound.
>Neo-Geo CD controller since day 1, but with 6 buttons instead of 4.
>Sprite size bumped up to 64x512 from 16x512, 512 sprites, up from 380.
>Proper 18-bit color, or 262,144 colors, 32,768 colors on screen at once, up from 3840
>1MB of main ram, 512KB of video ram and 256KB of audio ram.
>Supports ram expansions.
There, I fixed the Neo-Geo.
>>11813313
The CDZ did had 128KB of CD drive cache but thew CD drive is still 1X.
>>11813321
The Neo-Geo Pocket used a 16-Bit CPU, a bit more powerful then the Game Boy.

>>11835261
>The CDZ did had 128KB of CD drive cache but thew CD drive is still 1X.
Naw, that is a myth, it has a 2x drive that spins twice as fast as the drive in the Top Loader.

https://www.neo-geo.com/forums/index.php?threads/neo-geo-cdz-single-or-double-speed-lets-discuss.256310/

>>11835310
That magazine article turned out to be fake because it came from a time before fact checking became a thing, plus reverse engineering the CDZ and looking up necessary part numbers proved that the CDZ used a 1X CD Rom drive with 128KB of cache.

Don't trust old foreign magazines who don't fact check their shit, direct Japanese sources or GTFO.

>>11835386
Citation needed.

>>11835393
For the 90s magazine that it was taken from.

>>11835129
Save state practice is when you use save states to skip initial parts of a game which you have already mastered. Usually the first level of a game, then the first and second, and so on.

So if I'm working on a 1cc of a game like Blazing Star I'll use a save state to skip the first level because it is so easy to complete that it becomes a rote chore to get through instead of a challenge and keeps me from spending time playing the levels I'm still having trouble with. Once I'm good enough to do this for level 2 I'll skip it too, and then level three and so on.

Then once I've gotten good enough at all the levels I will begin attempting the 1cc runs. This means no save states and no pausing.

>If so, are you saying you use save states for actual runs?
No.
>Are you saying that if you succeed then it counts as a 1cc?
No, if you save state and then happen to finish the game without losing it still doesn't count. Even if you didn't pause the game. Some may argue otherwise but this is my way.

>>11835157
As you can see by the above response there are some anons who seem to have severe misunderstandings around the entire concept and thought people were using save states in 1cc runs and calling it legit.

>>11835261
>YM2612
ym2151, thanks.
> the rest
rom sizes would be enormous

>>11834935
Holy lmao

>>11835990
I know right?

>>11834935
just post this any time marblefag uploads one of his pics and i guarantee he'll disappear eventually just like babbage's gramps did

>>11835129
>Using save states to....practice? What does this even mean?
>game has hard part, i will use save states to play this particular part over and over until i master it
how do people like this not get hit by cars

>>11836028
>babbage's gramps
i had completely forgot all about that abject failure until now. when you use a name and your opinions are consistently shit, you don't make many friends. similar situation on /g/ with a faggot named bruce3434. he disappeared after anons got sick of his shit

>>11836045
>how do people like this not get hit by cars
pure chance.

>>11836083
he posted one time 2-3 years ago saying he still lurked but that he was IP/rangebanned banned from home, mobile and his local fucking mcdonalds lmao. not only did he have shit opinions on everything, but every conversation eventually turned into him talking about his "girlfriend" and posturing about all the non-game knpwledge he had. he once wrote me a short essay about why i was foolish for throwing away bacon grease because it was actually a delicacy with a wide variety of culinary apllications or something of somesuch faggy redditor nature. he is not missed.

>>11836094
>IP/rangebanned banned from home, mobile and his local fucking mcdonalds
>short essay about why i was foolish for throwing away bacon grease because it was actually a delicacy with a wide variety of culinary apllications or something of somesuch faggy redditor nature
the absolute state of gramps. a walking disaster.

>>11836123
i like to think he still sits at mcdonalds and eats mcchickens, sifting through /vr/ threads on his phone as the pain of being unable to reply eats him.

>>11835943
YM2610 + YM2612 = 12 FM channels.

Also the large sizes are why it's using CDs in the first place.

>>11835943
YM2610B + YM2612 = 12 FM channels.

Also the large sizes are why it's using CDs in the first place.

>>11835386
>That magazine article
Magazine article? They literally have a video of it spinning twice as fast in that link.

>>11834441
>>11835157
>No one really cares if you use save states for personal practice. But save states and other cheats aren't allowed in real runs. Realistically though you should train without save states to build up muscle memory and reaction speed.
Exactly. Cheats like save states, autofire, changing the speed of the game, emulation, etc as not allowed for arcade games.

If the system was $300 they might have gotten me.

>>11836524
have fun over there by yourself

>>11836481
Theres no video, that misinformation came from a old magazine back in 1996.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo_CD
Reverse engineering and looking up part numbers proved that it's still a 1X CD Rom drive.

>>11836589
>Theres no video
>There's a video in the linked thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TztjpFRIfZw
And while we are at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtjky6cTEkE
Here's another.

>>11836639
>Furrtek.
Thank you for giving me a trusted source.
>It does load game data at 300kbytes/s, but it still seeks and fucks up at regular speed ;)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using savestates to practice, if you can 1cc a game because you practiced the hard parts on an emulator then more power to you. It's like saying you shouldn't be allowed to train for a sport. Hell, it can even teach you things that would've been agonizing to figure out otherwise. I learned how to get through the haunted wasteland in OoT by using incremental save states until I had the whole route mentally mapped out and now I skip the lens of truth entirely. You could do the same thing with pure trial and error in the normal game but it would take untold hours versus 15 minutes.

>>11834935
>marblefag is conspicuously absent today

>>11836707
Using emulation tools are a crutch. You should be able to practice from beginning to end. Or at least load levels from within the game as the developers allowed.

>>11836718
It's not a crutch, it's an enhanced form of practice, and I say that as somebody who does typically bruteforce my way through games with repeated effort. I used to try beating DOOM on UV without dying, and I'd make it to the third episode or so and eventually get rekt. I ended up getting pretty far, but I never did manage to do it. If I had made saves at particular tough spots and gotten them down pat before attempting the challenge again I probably would've accomplished it by now -- I'd arguably be a better player. Don't get me wrong, there's a sense of accomplishment that comes from retard strengthing through a game and conquering filters the natural way, but life on this earth isn't forever, you only have so much time, and sometimes it's worth taking shortcuts. I don't feel like any less of a knowledgable OoT player just because I used tools circumvent tedium. Arguably, I know more than the average player as a result.

>>11836742
i agree with you. a crutch would be using a rapid fire controller in a competition or something like that. in the case of save states you could practice and then take those skills into a competition where nothing like that is allowed and be able to beat the game just fine, i don't see the issue.

>>11836718
ok guy

>>11836203
>YM2610B + YM2612 = 12 FM channels.
ym2610b+ym2151 is 14 fm channels and 7 adpcm channels (one of those adpcm channels having independent pitch control). that's one thing people forget about the 2610b.. 6 channels of fixed adpcm frequencies. that must have bugged the shit of composers, needing to have multipe copies of a sample at different pitches (thankfully it's adpcm and 50% or greater space saving over pcm) yet they made it sound awesome.

>why it's using CDs in the first place.
>1x
not fast enough. it's why neogeo cd failed in the marketplace less than two years after it was released.

>>11837498
Hence why the CD drive needed to be 2X with 128KB of CD drive cache.

>>11837534
> 2x
still a bit too slow. anything under 4x is kinda painful - cache or no cache. i can see why these console manufacturers hung on to carts for as long as possible. nobody wants to wait for loading.

>>11837551
In 1990 4X was far too expensive to use in anything except very high end PCs, even in 1995 a 4X drive was still $100 each part of hence why the N64 used carts (and that needed a 8X drive which was $200 for the drive alone).

>>11837498
>>11837534
CDs just loaded slowly back then. PS1 had a 2x drive and it took forever to load levels for some games.

But Neo Geo CD didn't fail because of that reason. It failed because the timing was wrong. They released it way too late. It came out at the time when Nintendo 64 and Playstation 1 were the dominant consoles. 3D games were everywhere.

If SNK wanted the Neo Geo CD to succeed than it needed to come out like 2 years earlier. Releasing it in 1996 was too late. At latest it should have been 1993 or early 1994.

>>11837562
Neo Geo CD needed to exist day 1, not 4 years in.

>>11837562
>PS1 had a 2x drive and it took forever to load levels for some games.
Depends on the developers. Namco games load very fast. Like there is only a several seconds of delay between Tekken 3 matches.
Street Fighter Alpha games on PS1 load a bit slower than Tekken but still much faster than Neo Geo CD games.

>>11836524
>Exactly. Cheats like save states, autofire, changing the speed of the game, emulation, etc as not allowed for arcade games.
console arcade sticks regularly came with autofire switches and there were even some arcades that gave factory modded autofire controls to some games. There was an anon here on /vr/ who saw a Radiant Silvergun (or was it Ikaruga?) cab somewhere that had an extra button to rapid fire the vulcan in single fire mode, ie. tapping fire very fast instead of holding it down.

>>11813307 (OP)
All these issues and yet every single game on it was a banger.
Neo Geo's were the patricians' choice. It quite literally was made to filter away plebs. It was for honest real gamers.

>>11837670
The only thing that matters is how the game designers made the game.

If the game had native autofire within the game, then great.

If not, then adding autofire through Mame or some other 3rd party device is a cheat.

Same crap with macros in fighting games. It's not allowed.

>>11837718
I love mahjong shovelware too, anon

>>11837718
> Neo Geo's were the patricians' choice.
was pretty nice. a shame nobody could afford it.

>>11837670
>console arcade sticks regularly came with autofire switches
cheating
>rcades that gave factory modded autofire controls to some games.
also cheating

>>11837725
>If the game had native autofire within the game
this. some games have autofire options in-game or via a dip switch. if arcade machine is default settings with autofire off and you enable it: cheating. might as well setting to easy while you're in the dip settings menu.

>>11837727
same, but unironically.

>>11837725
>le not allowed
>do it anyway and absolutely nothing and nobody keeps you from doing it

>>11837754
Your records won't be accepted or respected by the community

>>11833680
Didn't the Wii version lock the grenades to wagglan or something retarded like that?

>>11837871
autofire is accepted and respected within the shmup community

>>11837725
Then why did Nintendo, Sega, and Sony release officially licensed controllers with autofire?

>>11838385
Also Capcom, Namco, and Konami.

>>11838385
1. Neo Geo never did. Look at thread title.

2. Console versions are considered different than arcade versions when it comes to record keeping.

>>11813321
>>11823358
>>11830669
SNK VS Capcom Card Fighters for NGPC was the best version of the game. if only because the idiots screwed up the remake for NDS.
they made it with fatal bug that made it unbeatable in NDS.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/snk-vs-capcom-card-fighters-ds-recall-in-effect.166733/
apparently might not be the fault of the neogeo but the localisers of NDS games in USA? quite a few games were recalled for fatal bugs.

>>11820076
>He screams about how no one has truly beaten a game unless they do it on 1 credit (via emulation).

that's in every single shoot em up thread thoughbeit.

>>11838378
Only in Japan. Only for shmups.

The rest of the world doesn't allow autofire for arcade game record keeping.

>>11838710
Yea, it's to make sure another Billy Mitchell doesn't happen again.

>>11838710
>Only in Japan.
Incorrect.
>>11838710
Shmups and run n' gun are the only genres where it's really an issue. It's true that most other genres do ban autofire, even in Japan.
>The rest of the world doesn't allow autofire for arcade game record keeping.
Incorrect.

>>11838648
>1. Neo Geo never did. Look at thread title.
Moving goalposts.
>2. Console versions are considered different than arcade versions when it comes to record keeping.
Moving goalposts.

SNK released ports of their arcade games on consoles which had officially licensed autofire controllers. Thus they gave tacit permission to use the feature. SNK has also released emulated versions of their arcade games which had autofire features available in the emulator.

>>11838710
>Only in Japan.
Japanese company.
Japanese console.
Japanese games.
Serious players use the Japanese standard.

>>11838862
>SNK released ports of their arcade games on consoles which had officially licensed autofire controllers

Those versions (Saturn, PS1, handheld, etc) were different. They have reduced sprites, enemies, and animations. It's not the same game.


>>11838869
And yet Namco held the award ceremony in America. Lmao.

Bow down to the West.

>>11838947
>Those versions (Saturn, PS1, handheld, etc) were different. They have reduced sprites, enemies, and animations. It's not the same game.
Very weak argument. They are functionally the same from a gameplay point of view. The spirit and intention is the same. There is nothing about them that would preclude them from being used as official tacit approval of autofire devices. This especially applies to Saturn releases.

>>11838968
>Very weak argument. They are functionally the same from a gameplay point of view.
Nope. Even Japanese record keepers acknowledge the different versions when record keeping. Try again.

>>11838976
>Even Japanese record keepers acknowledge the different versions when record keeping.
Another weak argument that avoids the topic of how the console releases keep the spirit and intention of the gameplay intact, which is the crux of the autofire discussion.

>>11838968
>The spirit and intention is the same.
No what matters is gameplay. If the gameplay is different, then it's not the same exact game. It's a port. Literally no one agrees with you. Every record keeping organization in the world and even Japan forces you to specify what version of a game you are playing because there ARE differences.

>>11839050
>If the gameplay is different,
From the perspective of autofire the gameplay is identical. Having slightly less frames or a slightly different display resolution does result in a qualitative change of state that changes the nature of the matter.
You are arguing in bad faith.
>It's a port.
For this point this doesn't matter.
>Literally no one agrees with you.
This isn't a new point I'm making, various anons have said similar in the past on this board.
>Every record keeping organization in the world and even Japan forces you to specify what version of a game you are playing because there ARE differences.
Those differences are in regards to speed, balance changes, hitboxes, glitches, etc. Thing which will fundamentally effect the outcome of the game state in a way so as to change a high score or time. All of this is not relevant to the arguments over the developer intentions regarding autofire and the tacit approval which can be inferred from releasing their game on a platform with controllers that officially support autofire.

>>11839050
>If the gameplay is different,
From the perspective of autofire the gameplay is identical. Having slightly less frames or a slightly different display resolution does not result in a qualitative change of state that changes the nature of the matter.
You are arguing in bad faith.
>It's a port.
For this point this doesn't matter.
>Literally no one agrees with you.
This isn't a new point I'm making, various anons have said similar in the past on this board.
>Every record keeping organization in the world and even Japan forces you to specify what version of a game you are playing because there ARE differences.
Those differences are in regards to speed, balance changes, hitboxes, glitches, etc. Thing which will fundamentally effect the outcome of the game state in a way so as to change a high score or time. All of this is not relevant to the arguments over the developer intentions regarding autofire and the tacit approval which can be inferred from releasing their game on a platform with controllers that officially support autofire.

>>11839172
You keep arguing, but no gaming organization on Earth agrees with you. There's nothing else you can say.

>>11839172
>Having slightly less frames or a slightly different display resolution does not result in a qualitative change of state that changes the nature of the matter
bro
what the fuck are you even talking about

>>11839181
>but no gaming organization on Earth agrees with you.
The point I am raising, that ports on consoles with official autofire support indicate tacit developer approval, is not addressed by any governing body of video game scores and times.
They neither agree nor disagree.
It seems you have a fundamental inability to separate different threads of discussion and are focusing on something that's irrelevant to this idea.
>>11839193
And this says it all, really.

>>11839217
And different ports have several differences between them. Hence they are categorized differently.

Beating Donkey Kong on SNES is not the same as beating Donkey Kong on arcade.

Beating Pac Man on arcade is not the same as beating Pac Man on home consoles.

Every organization makes you list what version you played. There is no crossover.

You claiming there's no differences between consoles and arcade is just foolish. No one agrees with you.

>>11839262
>extraneous unrelated comments
>still doesn't address the original point
You're just too stupid to understand the concept in discussion here. Good day sir.

>>11839302
>unrelated
It's completely related. Every single gaming organization on Earth cares about which version you play.

>>11839302
If the arcade version doesn't have autofire but the console port does, then it doesn't matter. They are two different versions in the eyes of official record keepers. You can't play the console version with autofire, and then claim you beat the arcade version. You know this. Stop arguing with everyone.

>>11837562
It was released in 94.
>>11838862
Saturn Metal Slug or PCE CD Art of Fighting are ports, not originals.

Realistically SNK didn't give a fuck about anything besides profit. If the arcade op rigged a turbofire onto the controls they wouldn't care as long as they sold a product.

I'm researching a good unit to buy, and I keep seeing the phrase "BIOS socketed". Does this mean that it has the actual unibios chip installed, or that it's been "socketed" for one to be installed but doesn't actually come with it? If I'm understanding correctly, people like to switch out the unibios and standard chips for different purposes, so "socketing" it just allows you to plug and play instead of soldering? Unless I'm totally wrong which I likely am because I'm a newfag to the neo.

>>11839392
>are ports, not originals.
They do not transform the gameplay in a qualitative way which would result in a change of ruling on the topic of autofire.

>>11839392
>It was released in 94.
96 in the West. Which is the market that really matters.

>>11840901
Not the case when it comes to Japan.

>>11840901
Well no, just North America, the rest of the West got it in ‘94 as well. The reason it took so long to reach the states is because they were planning to introduce a model that had loading times twice as fast, but it just ended up being another stupid decision by SNK, as the double speed CD drives were more expensive than initially estimated, so they decided to release that in Japan only instead and just cut their losses and released the original model here two years late.

>>11840914
Japan doesn't have enough of a market. The biggest markets are the western markets. That's how Nintendo and Sony won the console war.

>>11841582
See picture, also in Japanese culture the worst thing you can do is leach off of foreigners, it's 100% Japan or nothing.

>>11839860
>I'm researching a good unit to buy, and I keep seeing the phrase "BIOS socketed". Does this mean that it has the actual unibios chip installed,
yeah, just means bios is socketed so you can change it out with a unibos etc.
>so "socketing" it just allows you to plug and play instead of soldering?
yep

>>11840901
>Which is the market that really matters.
snk's market was arcades. hardly anybody owned the console version. who was the market? doesn't matter what country, market demand for it was so unbelievably low that the cd rom was abandoned two years after its release. the absolute state of this board. in shambles.

>>11835228
Holy shit, you're STILL here after all these years. Still seething and flailing. I still remember the thread where I created you.

>>11840787
Kinda do, you haven't played them

>>11820076
Sharp schizo larper too

>>11843000
>Kinda do, you haven't played them
I have and they do not. Not even "kinda".

>>11835261
>There, I fixed the Neo-Geo.
Yes.

>>11813307 (OP)
they were thinking that the arcade tryhard market was a lot bigger and wealthier than it actually was.

>>11843000
>Sharp schizo larper too
I don't know what this means

>>11843579
He came from /v/ and just posted shit about Switch 2 is only seeing a OLED upgrade while maintaining the same 10nm chip while both Samsung and Nintendo already confirmed that a 3nm upgrade already exists but is also being manufactured (tapped out) as well.

>>11842802
> admits to having severe mental illness
everyone has seen this abject failure crying about this anon for years. whoever this "larper" person is has buck broken you severely, if you say it's you. but why would anybody claim to be that loser is amazing. lmao.

>>11843143
Thanks.

>>11826021
Okay look, the Neo Geo collecting market has been like this for a while. No, you can’t get Neo Turf Masters/Big Tournament Golf for $500. That is among the rarest most sought after games on Neo Geo. You’re likely looking at a conversion from MVS. I saw a legit copy with a sun faded insert for $19k. It’s not new in box it’s used and I would not want a game this faded in my collection personally: https://www.neostore.com/Big-Tournament-Golf-Japanese-AES-p/853.htm

That store is notorious for high prices, but the problem is that there are only a few places left that even deal with authentic AES home carts. The only places I know of are Super Potato, Mandarake, Trader (all in Japan), a few eBay accounts (or the collector offloading their games), NeoStore… and once in a blue moon at a random retro game store they’ll get one or two common games. It’s not that the stores are expensive, it’s just certain rare games are astronomical in price. You can’t even find some for sale in the market for years. I only own three games and I can tell you from experience Metal Slug X is worth about $6k. I spent a lot of money on it before it was that much, but even then it was a really huge purchase. The problem is it’s really hard to find these in good condition and there are a lot of fakes/conversions so reputable sellers who know what is authentic is key.

I had a pretty decent collection of games and nothing compared to just owning Metal Slug X. Ended up selling all of it except my other consoles, got a mister, and I slowly collect Neo Geo games. One last thing, the multicarts can damage the pins I’ve heard. Just get real AES carts and play the ones you don’t own on a Mister or emulate them.

>>11844691
I appreciate your honesty. I was pretty hyped up to get one of these things after wanting one for many years, but I try to do my research before making any kind of major purchase, and frankly I don't think it's worth it at this point. Having to pay a premium, import, use extra equipment, etc., would be one thing, but I've come to realize that there's an insane amount of minutiae that comes with collecting for this console and the cost-value-hassle ratio isn't adding up for me.

Like you said, I was undoubtedly looking at an MVS conversion when I saw that initially. Likewise, I've come to learn that there are a ton of bootlegs/conversions (comprising what might be the majority of stock available online), and they aren't always easy to identify. Even if you get somebody to show you the board, apparently some people go so far as to use official boards from cheaper games and solder on fake chips among other things. I would feel absolutely retarded paying $800 (let alone thousands) for some game only to learn that it was a bootleg.

It seems like if you want to collect neo stuff, you not only need a ton of money, but you kind of needed to be there from the beginning (or absolutely immerse yourself in the community for several years to the point where you know all of the tiniest details to prevent yourself from getting screwed). I won't lie, I'm still tempted to buy a neo and a flashcart (pin-damaging be damned), but at that point I have to ask myself, why am I even doing this? Why spend $1500 on equipment and a flash cart to not even play completely original hardware, when I could spend that $1500 to have a really nice starter collection for practically any other console, or better yet, spend the $1500 on a load of cool toys/experiences for my kids?

I think I'm just going to keep emulating, praying to Jesus and reminding myself that everything is fake and gay.

>>11844691
>nothing compared to just owning Metal Slug X
what do you mean by this?

>>11845708
>It seems like if you want to collect neo stuff, you not only need a ton of money
Only if you care about LARPing as some big shot 90s AES owner.

Otherwise just get an MVS + RGB/Arcade monitor + multi-cart + LS-32/40 and Omron buttons and you've reached 99% of the end-game for playing Neo games.

Also a "collection" of nice hardware pieces like a RGB monitor + Mister (or high end emu PC) + a couple of really good arcade sticks is an option. If you want something to look at on a shelf you can buy big boxy library cases to put a booklet or strategy guide inside. Or a CD with the ROM on it if that kind of thing floats your boat.

>>11845736
Mutli-carts aren't perfect. They have their own issues. Some games are glitchy, can't save, Multicarts have compatibility problems with some MVS and AES consoles depending on the model and year of manufacture. The creators of these flash carts still haven't bothered to fix it.

blump

>>11845723
Collecting games on disc felt sort of blasé compared to the entire package of a Neo Geo home cart. The giant case, the insert artwork, the size of cartridge. To me, Neo Geo home carts are the coolest physical video games I’ve ever seen.

Also the thrill of the hunt is a factor. You can find multiple copies of Psychic Assassin Taromaru at some of those Japanese retro game stores (expensive as hell, but available), but you might not come across a copy of some of these Neo Geo games for years in good condition.