>>11813328 (OP)
The sheer level of manchild/edgelord seething was pretty memorable.

Good game; shame they didn't experiment as much with the gameplay as they did with the visual style. The ocean exploration theme would have been a good opportunity to put in some procedural/randomized elements rather than a fixed design.

>>11813328 (OP)
windu waika!

>>11813328 (OP)
That's not Majoras Mask, OP.

>>11813328 (OP)
The water and sun theme of Wind Waker and Mario Sunshine matched perfectly with summer vacation from school. Gamecube was the eternal summer console.

>>11813341
>The ocean exploration theme would have been a good opportunity to put in some procedural/randomized elements rather than a fixed design
its a shame they didnt invent technology that didnt exist

>>11813437
Are you implying technological innovation involves coming up with stuff that somebody else already had came up with?

>>11813328 (OP)
The only issue back in the day was they kept showing all those cool tech demo shots of link and ganondorf fighting saying that was the new zelda and then suddenly we get wind waker.

>>11813328 (OP)
I'm fine with the art style, it has its charm, BUT there is not a single dungeon in this entire game that I find enjoyable.

>>11813459
They did openly state that was a tech demo, and specifically not a preview; what people may have inferred is a different matter.

It's funny though how these "cool" visuals had already aged horribly by the time Celda was announced and shit hit the entitled consumer fan. Regardless of what you think of the look, Wind Waker looks now exactly as good or bad as it did back then. The look was consciously planned and perfectly realized; it merely backfired horribly because of Nintendo yet again overestimating their audience.

>>11813382
/thread
Terrible OP fail.

>>11813479
Yeah, Celda really aged horribly.

>>11813328 (OP)
Cool, thanks!

>>11813328 (OP)
Thanks, I loved it

>>11813328 (OP)
Does anyone else really like the combat in Wind Waker? It's one thing I really enjoyed about it, and which felt really satisfying even if some of it could be called QTE bullshit. It's been a while since I've played, but my gut feeling is that it's because the enemies move and bounce around more---you knock a bokoblin flying, and the other comes running at you while the other guy gets to his feet and some weird birds swoop at you. Of course it's on the easy side, but it feels really satisfying. And Twilight Princess didn't manage the same for me despite the new more deliberate techniques introduced.

I say this as someone who got into Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time simultaneously through the Master Quest bundle.

>>11813467
I rather enjoyed the Earth Temple.

>>11814176
Wind Waker and Twilight Princess put a proper focus on contextual combat, the sword play is pretty engaging.
Skyward Sword with the enhanced motion controls tries to do this, but because they know motion controls take getting used to and can be unreliable, enemies become overly generous with their choreographed openings and staying open to attacks. It doesn't get good until too late into the game.

>>11814176
>>11814213
Overall I do think Wind Waker did it better, but Twilight Princess definitely had its moments with the Darknut encounters.
Like the ones in the Pit of Trials where you're standing off against two at once, as they slowly approach and you weigh your options, knowing that they'll get way more aggressive once you get their heavy armor off.

>>11813328 (OP)
A much better game thankfully.

>>11813382
>>11813541
It IS a sequel to OoT, though. In fact, it's the one that most directly deals with the consequences of what happened in that game. MM is, of course, a direct sequel since it stars the same Link, but it is almost completely disconnected from OoT's story and just deals with another adventure that OoT's Link embarked upon in an entirely different realm. TP's story is also shaped by OoT's events, but the connection between them is deliberately obscured for some reason, so it barely feels like they're connected. Only TWW explicitly makes callbacks to OoT's events and characters, and makes it very clear that what is happening is a direct result of what was wrought back then, and its ending completely closes OoT's loose ends.

>>11813479
>The look was consciously planned and perfectly realized; it merely backfired horribly because of Nintendo yet again overestimating their audience.
It was more than that. We take it for granted now but the idea that gaming was just a thing everyday people do like reading and watching TV/Films was not as well established back then, there was a huge swath of the population, usually older people who thought gaming was a pass time for children and that kids would grow out of it like they did action figures and cartoons. Flying in the face of that idea was PlayStation and PlayStation 2 with games and advertising meant to appeal to adults.
Basically 2003 was the absolute worst time to introduce a console that looked like a colorful lunchbox with a Fisher-Price looking controller. It felt like Nintendo was leaning heavily into the 5-12 year old market making it a little embarrassing for an adult to get the console compared to say a PS2. If that wasn't enough they turn around and make one of their (slightly)more mature franchises extra child-like after showing off that demo. So now Zelda fans are buying the Fisher-PriceCube to play baby Zelda.
Of course now most of us don't give a fuck, we aren't prickly about it because no one really cares if you play a game with a cartoony aesthetic. It is easy to say how lame they were now that the storm has long since past and gaming has nothing really to prove. I like Wind Waker but I get why people were annoyed / embarrassed.

>>11814482
It didn't help that the Kiddy Link in a Kiddy Colorful Cartoon World gave a vibe of a game that skewed for a younger and easier audience, alienating anyone who played a game prior... which is exactly what happened, but Nintendo was still very Green Eggs and Ham about the whole thing.

>>11814447
Movie 3 can have callbacks to Movie 1, close the whole story, and still Movie 2 would be the sequel to Movie 1.

>>11813437
As any gamer knows, random level generation wasn't invented until indie devs created the roguelike genre in 2012. It simply wasn't possible with the primitive hardware of the 90s and 00s.

>>11814213
>skyward sword
The fact that you still only have fixed swing angles and combos are gone makes it feel a lot less engaging. As a kid I was out of my mind with excitement to actually "hold" the sword, but it fell short. Okay now
>not retro
My memory is that movement in Twilight Princess was a lot more sluggish than Wind Waker. The scenarios in which you meet enemies out in the open are also less dynamic, being bokoblins in flat fields, whereas in Wind Waker you're fighting this guys on top of towers with kargarocs joining in, and you can actually bat this guys off the platforms, or you meet them in tight spaces in submarines or whatever. Thinking of moblins, bokoblins, and darknuts, each one has a unique range and way of going after you, plus unique personality, which is a lot of fun.

I still wish there were tougher and smarter enemies in Wind Waker, and more settings that took advantage of things like stealth, with tougher enemies incentivising it (I still think the first Forbidden Fortress entrance is super cool).

Seeing the scope of the romhack Indigo for Ocarina of Time, I'd really love to see something similar for Wind Waker. A small number of larger, more challenging islands with somewhat open-ended ways to approach them seems like a perfect bonus to the sparse exploration of the original game. Something with even more influence from Future Boy Conan maybe, and using things like the grappling hook and Deku leaf for exploration and verticality.

>>11813328 (OP)
hated it then
then I liked it
now I hate it again
I am the Zelda cycle, but honest.

>>11813437
literally Toe Jam & Earl 3 Mission to Earth on Xbox has random generation in 3D

>>11813479
>aged by the time Celda was announced
it still looks good, the fuck are you talking about

>>11813453
Nope, im saying its childish to feel disappointed that a video game didnt massively expand its scope to accommodate the tastes of someone from the future. Its like being disappointed Wind Waker wasn't shipped with 120 fps in 4k.

I never understood why critics dicksucked this absolutely mediocre game.

>>11813328 (OP)
Sailing over-world sucked.

>>11816412
They didn't on release, idk what caused the infentilism resulting is liking it now

>>11813328 (OP)
comfy

>>11813328 (OP)
inb4 fags defending this piece of shi-
>>11813341
goddammit

>>11813437
>its a shame they didnt invent technology that didnt exist
What the heck?

>>11816910
everyone knows new technology is unearthed out of ancient ruins of fallen civilizations

>>11813328 (OP)
Thanks, I loved it and it's my favorite Zelda. Perfect example of a game being greater than the sum of its parts and soul being the defining aspect of a game. Classic / 10.

>>11816735
"Critics" in this context probably means Game Journos.

>>11815537
They don't hold up nearly as well.

>>11817298
Wind Waker looks like ass forever

>>11813341
>The sheer level of manchild/edgelord seething was pretty memorable.
From what I remember it was more disappointment than anyone else. The gamecube had completely solidified itself as the kiddy console.

>>11817398
>solidified itself as the kiddy console.
Yeah it sucked. I remember seeing FF 10's realistic graphics and voice acting. Or GTA. Then a zelda is coming and surprise, it's more childish than anything that came before. What the fuck dude

>>11813328 (OP)
Haven’t played a Zelda since. Good job Nintendo! Roll that beautiful spaceworld 2000 video

>>11813479
Its funny that people fell for this shit not just once but twice.

>>11817859
Almost like they tease people with what they actually want and then release a piece of unrelated dogshit.

>>11813341
>shame they didn't experiment
>procedural/randomized elements

That would have been good but unfortunately the real issue is that puzzles and combat were half baked. They had a really good start; beautiful graphics, great characters, snappy combat but they just didn't invest enough effort into the second half of the game. The first two dungeons have interesting traversal but after that its just a standard barrage of hallways and weak OoT rehashes. They even lazed out on the hitboxes in sunken hyrule and ganons fortress, there's stairs that are secretly slopes and a ton of invisible walls that just show a lack of polish

>>11814176
Windwaker combat has the potential to be very good, but they had to include the fucking spiky A QTE bullshit that trivializes 90% of encounters and makes it gratingly unoptimal to engage with the game's good combat options.

>>11813328 (OP)
The knock-off Mega Man Legends artstyle betrays the game, it's a very safe sequel and lacks creativity in gameplay or game design. More of the same from the previous two games but significantly easier than the already easy oot. The environments tend to be very lacking visually and some of the character designs outright unpleasant to have on a screen.

>>11813328 (OP)
Ocarina of MS Paint.
It's like they colored everything in with the paint bucket tool instead of using textures.

Just can't stand that shitty low effort art style.

>>11819151
Wind Waker would be fixed if the main objective was finding 20 triforce shards from the beginning, and the dungeons were optional, only offering that which could be purchased for an expensive price.

>>11813437
i don't get this comment in light of anon's subsequent comments. Does anon genuinely think randomisation or procedural generation hadn't occurred well over a decade before this? Is it irony? Don't answer, the ambiguity is delicious.

The GameCube was a toy console with babby games. The real manchild is the sucker still trying to defend it 22 years later, probably while playing Switch in public, next to a playground.

>>11814176
It's still the most engaging combat 3D Zelda ever had. Every hit feels satisfying and it affecting the music makes it doubly so, you are constantly surrounded by waves of enemies who are constantly moving and doing shit so while easy you still have to keep on your toes, and its probably the only game where Link's combos genuinely look cool visually. It's only fault is it's QTE simplicity, but again they recognize half way through the game to just spam waves of enemies, Moblins and Dark Nuts at you to negate this.

Twilight Princess technically has a better combat system with more control, but the game itself does not properly utilize it at all. Enemy AI is even more braindead, enemies die even faster, all of your advance maneuvers are complete overkill making you a God, and they don't really surround you with enemies until Hyrule's Castle where it's by far too late. Also Link looks like a retard in how he swings his weapona nd looks completely uncool. Twilight Princess combat is only engaging fighting the Dark Nut, which there are only what, 2 or 3 in the ENTIRE main campaign?

>>11814176
It's still the most engaging combat 3D Zelda ever had. Every hit feels satisfying and it affecting the music makes it doubly so, you are constantly surrounded by waves of enemies who are constantly moving and doing shit so while easy you still have to keep on your toes, and its probably the only game where Link's combos genuinely look cool visually. It's only fault is it's QTE simplicity, but again they recognize half way through the game to just spam waves of enemies, Moblins and Dark Nuts at you to negate this.

Twilight Princess technically has a better combat system with more control, but the game itself does not properly utilize it at all. Enemy AI is even more braindead, enemies die even faster, all of your advance maneuvers are complete overkill making you a God, and they don't really surround you with enemies until Hyrule Castle where it's by far too late. Also Link looks like a retard in how he swings his weapon and looks completely uncool. Twilight Princess combat is only engaging fighting the Dark Nut, which there are only what, 2 or 3 in the ENTIRE main campaign?

>>11813328 (OP)
better than it got credit for on release.
nowhere near as good as people pretend it is today.
opinions on this game were properly calibrated in the early 10s or so.

>>11813437
>if only procedurally generated levels and planets could have existed in the 80s or heck! the 90s even!

>>11820596
cool now show an example of an actually good game that did it

>>11820586
I wonder if Wind Waker would have been improved by either removing the QTE or by introducing all the moves Twilight Princess did. I think the fundamental thing is the enemy responsiveness that you describe, so that you're pushed to actually use your options. Ocarina of Time had plenty of options (actually a little more than Wind Waker, if you discount weapon variety), but I wouldn't say the pressure to use them interestingly is there, and likewise your description of Twilight Princess indicates that all those special moves were for naught.

Is it possible to defeat the Darknuts in Wind Waker without using the QTE event? I remember that's what gets their armour off. If there was even a punishment for using the QTE too late that might do a lot (then I guess you may as well make it manual like Twilight Princess).

>>11813341
>Not liking childish baby graphics makes you a man child

>back then people complained about it being cartoony
Never heard or saw this complaint anywhere. It was just a new Zelda and people here hyped for it.

I swear sometimes the loud minority thing is real; the very small minority of people who cared about it being "childish" are just loud and annoying, like op still making threads about it obsessively. No one thought it was childish or cared

>>11820713
>Never heard or saw this complaint anywhere.
you just exposed yourself as a larper who wasn't there.
hate for the cartoony style was ultra common, as anyone who was there remembers.

>>11820743
>im not the larper, you are!!
How does it feel being so obsessed with whats mature or childish and that obsession ironically making you the most childish person of all?

>>11820764
I don't give a fuck what's mature or childish. i'm just pointing out that at the time, hate for the cartoony style of WW was impossible to miss, so by saying you never saw it, you're admitting that you weren't there.

>>11820607
Given how influential and successful Elite was, and that it even had a NES port, what is your point re: procedural generation?

>>11821065
Elite sucked dick. So did every other game in the series. The only people who enjoyed Elite are hyper-autistic turbonerds who are best kept away from polite society.

>>11820695
>Is it possible to defeat the Darknuts in Wind Waker without using the QTE event?
With no lock on I think you can run around behind them to cut the armor off.

>>11820710
>attributing an artstyle to "baby graphics" because you're mindbroken makes you a manchild
Yes

>>11813341
It wasn't manchildren. It was actual children.

>>11813328 (OP)
it was awesome ngl. felt like i was controlling an anime character

>>11821068
Zelda sucked dick. So did every other game in the series. The only people who enjoyed Zelda are kids who would go on to become trannies, or cocksucking faggots who are best kept in a noose, hung from a tree.

>>11823561
>mad

>>11823561
>legend of zelda
>where you walked around with a little bitch
>and a little bitch-ass sword
>goin
>HAH
>HAH
>HAH
>HAH
>who the fuck wants to play that shit?
>I need to SHOOT some nigguz in space!

>>11813328 (OP)

>>11824465

>>11817398
>>11817445
you both sound like fucking faggots

>>11821292
If you hit them enough their armor breaks off on its own too.

>>11824573

>>11817398
>>11817445
It's not like the GC swapped its whole demographic. N64 was already perceived as the gay baby console with larger emphasis on family-friendly cartoon characters in comparison to PS1 having shit like Metal Gear, Tomb Raider, FF7, Twisted Metal, Soul Reaver, all of the Resident Evils, etc.

>>11824709
Not to that extent at all. Early defining games for the N64 were Turok and Goldeneye. Even most of Nintendo's first party games for the console aren't like that. OoT, F-Zero, Starfox, etc.
Ironically, most of the kiddy shit was coming from Rare, with stuff like Diddy Kong Racing.

>>11824709
>It's not like the GC swapped its whole demographic
No, but it didn't do much to retain those previously gay babies who had grown up to be tough guys