>Governments = selfish and corrupt
>Church = evil
>Other people = also selfish and betray the first chance they get
>Me = the only good person in this world

This feels like it was written by an edgy teenager which ironically makes the story feel more childish than a classic fairy tale. The writing is super try-hard too, it's like a movie by Christopher Nolan "Look how smart I the writer am!", which is something other Squaresoft games of the era like the first Parasite Eve also suffered from.

The gameplay is enjoyable though.

>>11816505 (OP)
All true, but is the perspective of a cynical edgy teenager really that far from reality?

>>11816505 (OP)
Aren't all the Final Fantasy games from at least 4 onwards supposed to be parody/tongue in cheek/campy/otherwise funny or sarcastic? I thought then taking themselves so seriously was part of of the humor. And no, I don't just mean the Woolsey translations.

>>11816505 (OP)
>>Governments = selfish and corrupt
>>Church = evil
>>Other people = also selfish and betray the first chance they get
>>Me = the only good person in this world
I said all of this
Stick to platformers

>>11816541
Not for the most part, but somewhat. 5 leaned heavy into that campy humor, 7, 8, and 10 were totally edgy serious with just a little modest humor poking fun of itself here and there.

>>11816541
no FF games take themselves seriously, you could say they insist upon themselves

>>11816557
I don't know what that means
Yes I know the reference, but I don't know what "insists upon itself" means

>>11816680
It means they take themselves very, very seriously and directly contradicts the first half of that guy's sentence.
And he's right on one point, they took themselves very seriously and look at FF7, their most edgy serious work, it reflects reality better than most fiction.

>>11816505 (OP)
i ignored Final Fantasy Tactics and skipped anything about it in magazines because i assumed it was a standalone tutorial for Final Fantasy, and i didn't play other Finaly Fantasy games because i hadn't played the previous numbered games.

They've left so much money on the table with that naming convention. Couldn't they make up a subtitle instead?

>>11816505 (OP)
>Church is good

Why ?

>Government is good

why ?

>other people

why are they good ?

>Me

You only know yourself

>>11816706
They just are, okay? Pointing to bad things they did is a strawman btw so don't do it

>>11816505 (OP)
This was just how RPGs were written back then. Ever play Grandia 2? It feels like it was written by a 15 year old wiccan who was pissed her grandmother made her go to mass on Christmas Eve.

little money

>>11816749
What? I have a phone that was $35 new and I guarantee I could get FFT running on it in 5 minutes. What does "little money" mean in the context here to you?

>>11816703
You again? Trust me anon, you were the only one confused about that.

>>11816781
Maybe the only one confused about Tactics, but the numbers at least repel parents shopping for games

>>11816505 (OP)
all true. great game though. i have no intention of ever reading the dialogue again

>>11816774
You never played the game huh

>>11816815
There's a chance I beat it before you were born. Maybe not idk who knows. I, as the better poster above you, don't really play these games for micro story details.

>>11816505 (OP)
>>Governments = selfish and corrupt
>>Church = evil
>>Other people = also selfish and betray the first chance they get
>>Me = the only good person in this world
Literally all true.

>>11816819
>as the better poster above you,
Just to clarify after reading my own post...
> the better poster above you
refers to >>11816809 . I wasn't trying to imply I'm better than you whatever that means.

>>11816819
You would have remembered that if you'd have played it.

>>11816846
I played it over 20 years ago, haven't replayed. Sorry I don't remember some text. Seriously, enjoy it if you enjoy it.

>Zoomie LARPer needs to get spoonfed again...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJa7XAOfniA

Okay I think I may have over-grinded

I also killed the 2nd version of the boss with 2 ninjas before he even had a turn.
That's what you get for making me load a previous save, child fucker

>>11816505 (OP)
>The writing is super try-hard too, it's like a movie by Christopher Nolan "Look how smart I the writer am!"
Are you maybe talking about the War of the Lions translation?

>>11816505 (OP)
FFT is definitely focused on man v society because it is highly narrative scenario.

there is a bit of man v nature, but thats usually treated as a pretty shallow source of narrative.

>>11816856
Here ya go anon. Its kinda hard to forget if you actually played it.

>>11816505 (OP)
>Governments = selfish and corrupt
>Church = evil
>Other people = also selfish and betray the first chance they get
>Me = the only good person in this world

I say all of this btw

>>11816906
this is way too violent D:

So yeah I went with 3 ninjas and 2 summoners that I used as calculators. Game status = broken. It's absolutely crazy how OP Math Skill is.
One of my ninjas also wasn't too bad and often dealt double damage on his 2nd hit for some reasons, meaning he dealing 700 DMG in a turn against late bosses by himself.

>>11817338
I went with the easier op strat. Dancers and Holy Knights.

I recently dug out my PlayStation to check some controller and memory card I got and took a look at some old save files I had and found an early solo Ramza file before Dorter, one that was just normal and the other 11 levels higher after grinding to calculator.
The end game files are fun to see what strategies I was messing around with

>>11816505 (OP)
>This feels like it was written by an edgy teenager

That's most japanese writers for you, for each really great masterpiece they create you have hundreds if not thousands of pretentious edgy works.

Did you know that the janitor here is a homosexual that likes fucking animals? It's true.

>>11817346
I didn't realize you could have other Holy Knights other than the girl that goes from Guest to full on party member. Either way I didn't bother with guests that join the party even if they had unique abitlies because they were too far behind on other skills

>>11817397
So glad those losers got doxxed

>>11817413
There's only 2. Her and Orlandu.

>>11816505 (OP)
>Parasite Eve
was based on a book. It wasn't something Square wrote so much as adapted.

>>11816541
Tactics wasn't meant to be a Final Fantasy game. It started as an Ogre game and got the FF label and job system implemented later. That's why its story fits so perfectly within the themes of the other Ogre games but feels out of place within the Final Fantasy universes.

>>11817465
Also, when I said "easier" I meant in terms of setting up. You only need to build the dancers, since the Holy Knights are guaranteed story characters.

>>11816505 (OP)
>Governments = selfish and corrupt
>Church = evil
>Other people = also selfish and betray the first chance they get
>Me = the only good person in this world

>This feels like it was written by an edgy teenager which ironically makes the story feel more childish than a classic fairy tale. The writing is super try-hard too, it's like a movie by Christopher Nolan "Look how smart I the writer am!", which is something other Squaresoft games of the era like the first Parasite Eve also suffered from.

You're just making me want to play it more now.

>>11816730
lmao
My ex's cousin was a wiccan and I spent Christmas with the family once and the cousin was like "you know, Christmas is cultural appropriation of wiccan rituals and didn't even exist until the 1800s".
My ex's grandma, wanting to play nice at the Christmas dinner table, asked "well, if you don't believe in Christianity, what do you believe in?"
While I forgot the answer exactly, she mentioned something about the goddess as well as iconography, which I guess could be construed as idolatry. Gamgam replies "so you're worshipping a woman and idols? Why don't you just become a Catholic, then?" as she scoffed at her granddaughter's explanation.
I thought it was hilarious.

>>11817483
Is the Saturn version of Tactics Ogre the best version?

>>11817501
I wasn't even aware there was a Saturn version unless you're implying SF3 is also an Ogre game

>>11817504
I mean this

>>11817496
Awfully rich of your ex's cousin to act like her religion isn't an amalgamation of a bunch of other traditions. I have no problem with Wicca, but people who screech about cultural appropriation should get their heads examined. It's normal for different cultures to exchange ideas and influence one another.

>>11816680
What he means is he finds them shallow and pedantic

>>11816505 (OP)
>anything controversial
>anything slightly against then norm
>"its so edgy"

>>11817519
Bro, I agree with you. Not to mention that Wicca itself is simply a creation of the 19th century, like Thelema and all the other "spiritual" nonsense of the era and not some ancient "old religion."
Also, why are all wiccans fat? Where are all the 90s Fairuza Balk type magick bitches? Stiff as a board indeed.
>>11817516
Yeah, I had no idea Saturn got a port. Neat.

FFT isn't edgy at all. The word you are looking for is "pretentious".

>>11817568
>Also, why are all wiccans fat?

Mana potions are calorie dense

>travelling along
>get into a battle
>usually don't pay attention to the monster names since you can sleep walk through that shit pretty easy
>encounter a bomb named
>'elpenor'

>>11817601
haha, penor

>>11816906
>nit yelling 400 times whilst walking back and forth between lightning stabs hoping HP restore hits

shiggy

>>11816541
>from at least 4 onwards
2 has the most comically edgy story in the franchise to this day

>>11816505 (OP)

I'm a lifelong atheist and I still found the notion that their religion was all based on a lie to be extremely gratifying, correct, and helpful. Years ago I remember coming across some criticism along your lines, OP (some web 1.0 site, it was a thoughtful criticism as-written), but I decided that I wouldn't let such considerations get in the way of my appreciation of the game.

>>11816512 Also FPBP. "Maturing" is largely the process of becoming accustomed to the sad features of reality. It's true that adults sometimes retain awareness of The Suck which is life itself, and endeavor to make it suck less. But it's a fundamental mistake to dismiss adolescent horror at the world as "immature", just as it can be mistake to take maturity itself as a virtue. Roughly, one shouldn't mistake an Is for an Ought simply by having gotten used to things. When a child or an adolescent is really confronting the horrors of reality for the first time, he reminds the adults of what they have already accepted (or at least, come to understand) and filed away/coped with as best they can, until they themselves die a few years later on the outside, as we all do.

so I wanted to give Tactics Ogre a try but the fact that you can grind by putting your own units against themselves in training fights while controlling both parties makes it seem super retarded, I think I'll pass

>>11816541
no that's just cope for bad writing.

>>11817465
There's also Meliadoul but she's technically a Divine Knight and she only gets the armor destroying skills.

>>11818880
I think that's just always an issue in these games. When I tried FFT out and got stuck, I got made fun of for not attacking my own party and grinding early on like that.

>>11818967
Well the difference is FFT has random encounters, you don't have to attack your own party, you can just take care of the monsters and even if you want to stall you can use items or other abilities. Tactics Ogre is set up so that the only way to grind is to put your guys against one another without any enemy around.
Whether it's FF2 or FFT or whatever I never attack my own, I think it's retarded, so I'm not found of this concept

>>11818972
If they're having you set up mock training battles I can understand their idea, but I do also get why you wouldn't like that.

>>11818960
It's still silly that Meliadoul joins after TG Cid, when the latter is a straight upgrade on her unique class. At least Agrias joins early enough that her getting outclassed feels reasonable, and Gaffy can't become a permanent party member.

>>11816505 (OP)
The story is for teenagers

Damn, I just realized it is has been literal decades since I played this. Love/hate this game. Love the presentation, music, party building. But the viscious noobtraps left a bad taste in my mouth to this day.
Any excuse to play PSP is a good one.

>>11819285
Also the word is vicious. Thanks autocorrect.

I just remembered this existed. Should I?

>>11819670
No, that would be escapism, and that is a sin worse than murder

>>11819670
Its good but pretty long. The judges may also annoy you.

Glabados Church isn't that corrupt, they're just another political actor. They take advantage of the civil-war to act as a third option, and they hunt for the ancient holy stones of their religion specifically so they can recreate their version of the 12 Apostles in the modern era. The church did not know that the damn stones were used as conduits for demons! Or that their origin story myth is in fact a misunderstanding surrounding an invasion of demons being stopped. Ramza's descendant killed Ultima at St. Ajora's execution, which caused a huge catastrophy destroying much of Mullonde, and they misunderstood the context. The 12 Knights Templar were in fact the human hosts of the demons, and St. Ajora was the host of their demon boss.

And for all their hard work, the Pope gets assassinated for it.

Also, Mullonde death city and airship graveyard appears to be a place in Ivalice rather than another dimension. Mullond was the nation that was destroyed way back then, and it's probably some island in the sea. The only land that remains was turned into the Holy capital of their religion.

>>11818880
TO:LUCT (the PSP remake) isn't like that, you train in random encounters and designated grinding dungeons there. Playing against your own units is the "multiplayer mode" on the PSP, completely separate from the main game.
LUCT has a super retarded class leveling system, which will hurt you harder the more you play (unlock new classes).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgHdfuPbO78

>>11821584
>LUCT has a super retarded class leveling system, which will hurt you harder the more you play (unlock new classes).

Elaborate?

>>11818793
Wise words. If out teenager selves are that cringy why do we do a full circle and come back to our tastes from that era as we keep growing up?

>>11821628
Units in LUCT have no levels, only class levels which determine their stats, abilities and everything else. Whenever you get a unit of a new class (or reclass one of your units to a new class), the class system will always reset them to that class's level in your party, which generally means Lv.1 (out of 50)
Since everything in LUCT is level-gated, you can't equip said unit with a decent gear, use skills or spells, i.e. you get a worthless sucker the entire enemy squad will try to kill asap, and you'll have to babysit them until you grind their class up to your current whereabouts. While it isn't much of a problem in early game, latecomers with unique classes get hurt badly. LUCT is a grindfest by design, use cheats if you play it. Skill EXP gain x2 is a must, for example, unless you want to get skills by extremely retarded "recruit an enemy with a skill you want, get them killed 3 times, feed the corpse to a unit you want to have the skill in question" way etc.
I don't have the cheat that "fixes" the class system by overriding the class level with unit's level (normally the game does this for Guest units only), but it's been posted in /vrpg/ multiple times, search for _C0 in the archive of your choice.
Also, use the hi-res textures from PPSSPP forums if you're emulating.

>>11821660
Yeah okay I'm just not going to play this game

>>11821660
IIRC you can equip passive skills above your current level if you learn them from another class beforehand. For example, Dragoon learns new tiers of Strengthen (or whatever the physical attack boosting skill was called) a few levels before most other classes, so occasionally I would turn my entire party into Dragoons for five minutes to learn the skill.
But yeah, LUCT is grindy. Also use a cheat to make crafting a guaranteed success, some of the crafting required to upgrade certain weapons was horrific.

>>11821129
>Ramza's descendant
Ancestor

>>11821660
You should play the one vision mod instead. Really awesome "remix" for someone who's beat the remake

>game is for teenagers, bad to play as an adult
>game is for toddlers, VERY GOOD to play as an adult!!!!!

>>11816703
Kindly kill yourself if you're not a bot
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/9825629/#q9825629
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/11445216/#11445216
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/11517815/#11518004
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/11619636/#11621978

>>11822012
am i only allowed to respond to one thread for each game? buy infinite threads can be started for each game?

>>11822007
Replace toddler by children and I would say
>This but unironically
Children still have awe, wonder and imagination, teenagers are just embarassing in the way they think they have the world figured out through simplistic messages like "everyone's a shit" and the same applies to stories that tap into that.

Now that's a broad generalization though and not everything is black or white, I don't have a problem with FF8 for instance despite it being for teenagers starring teenagers, because FF8 still has the child-like wonder while at the same time being very mature with its story, for instance how it presents the "good guys" with having dark sides (such as the literal brainwashing of orphans in order to turn them into perfect little soldiers) and the "bad guys" with good sides (Galbadians being after all, just like everyonen else, and Ultimecia only doing what she does to protect her life).
Maybe I missed it but FFT felt like it had neither of that, even the classic FF elements felt like they were there "just because it's expected with a Final Fantasy name" and the story was basically just "everyone's a shit (except me and my sister)" but with pretentious wording.

>>11819670
It took me 19 years to beat FFXII, I came back to FFT 25 years later and still got bored of it after two chapters, but I played this game straight through so I assume it must have been good.

>>11816505 (OP)
leddit is the other way around.

>>11818793
Wouldn't the story point you more toward agnosticism than atheism? Metaphysical/spiritual/celestial/demonic/etc entities very clearly exist in the story. The Lucavi alone would be considered deific.