I really wanted to like this one, but you guys were right. It sucks. I'm sure the PSX/GBA versions are "better" but I wanted the original experience, warts and all. Anyone here actually like this one (Famicom version)? If so, why?

Also, one aspect that never gets brought up is how repetitive the music is throughout the whole game. Even FF1 had more music variety.

Kawazu kino.

I'm sure there are a handful of schizos who appreciate the potential of what square was trying to do with it, even through the dogshit execution.

though honestly i'm not sure it is possible to execute the use-to-improve stat system in a strictly turn-based game. you need more control over when and what you and the enemy are doing than is strictly possible.

>>11838956
Repeat shit from /vrpg/.

I decided last year I was going to sit down and beat this on a real NES, and I fucking did. And I’m proud of myself. I needed to do some grinding and exploit the system a little bit here and there, but it’s very do-able. No worse than FF1, honestly once you know the tricks.

Basically you gotta lose a lot of MP and HP each fight if I remember correctly, and watch which commands you use for each person.

Anyway I didn’t hate it - I have some nice memories of the experience and I can say I actually ‘beat’ Final Fantasy 2 now.

I started Final Fantasy 3 in the same way on the NES and immediately gave up when I realized it intended for me to have a Red Wizard and I randomly hadn’t made one of those, and because of that I was being penalized now. Fuck that. I’ll come back eventually with a guide, but I needed a break

>>11839178
i posted this just before finding the thread in /vrpg/ and repeating it there, actually. gave me time to expand on my idea for that thread.

>>11839267
thats kind of inspiring thanks. I played through western 1, 2, 3 on nes/snes and loved them all. but never the actual japanese 2, 3 and 5 I'll have to try the translations now that I got a flash cart thing.

>>11838929 (OP)
I’m played a romhack that fixed all the bugs and it was okay I guess. I liked the dual wielding concept but since evasion is so important in this game it makes more sense to just not use dual wielding until endgame. Once I got my evasion up i was surprised how easy it was with the exception of some boss fights which have absurd stats at pretty much any point in the game. The early game is killer for some of these traps. The mid game is significantly easier for a good stretch of the game until the very end in which case beating the bosses really comes down to whether or not you have blood swords or just ballerhighass weapon levels. Magic is clearly inferior to weapons but I do like its system of where hitting elemental weaknesses does huge damage.

As an aside, I don’t know if this is still a thing but the original Famicom version had this gay system where characters in the back row couldn’t use the attack command unless they had a bow or lance equipped.
This is something that never happens in final fantasy, a back row character is likely to miss or do little damage but at least they get an attempt. This “you can’t attack from the back row” shit came from Romancing SaGa. I could tell because I just quit playing that game right before starting FF2.

>>11838929 (OP)
The music is way better than the first game. Skill issue on your part ig

after multiple playthroughs, i started to enjoy it.
it's still a relative low point, but i do have more of an appreciation for what it did and what it tried to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWhq-Oq9Ps

>>11838929 (OP)
FF2 is probably in my top 3 favourite Famicom RPGs alongside DQ2 and Metal Max.

For starters I love the story, it's the first JRPG I can think of which isn't high fantasy for the sake of high fantasy; instead the story is a more realistic and a grounded war story between two factions in which magic is merely a weapon of war (at least until the very end of the game). People tend to take this for granted and do not realize how groundbreaking and influencial this was.

Secondly the game system is tons of fun to experiment with and figure out and it's more balanced and better executed than most people give it credit for. The game system is designed so that insisting on doing too much grinding is a waste of time, and instead it is designed so that if you hit a difficulty spike your stats will quickly catch up in just a few fights; but instead people pretend what I just said doesn't exist and like you're supposed to spend 100 hours grinding in place or something or that you're supposed to bring all your spells and weapons to lvl16 when the game is balanced for them to be lvl8-11 by the end game. There is only one thing that really need intentional grinding and that's max MP because admittedly you're never going to spend half of your MP within a single fight otherwise. That and esuna probably.

I also have a lot of fond memories going through the dungeons and I think the "trap room" complain is overblown, it's not any worse or different than your average dungeon crawler teleporter/hole in the floor/anti-magic/dark area, but most people playing FF2 are probably coming off mid 90's or later RPGs rather than the standards of the time it was made in.

Once I'm done with 1 I plan on playing 2 as straight forwardly as I can with the knowledge of how the levelling system works and just seeing what I make of it.

>>11839304
>This “you can’t attack from the back row” shit came from Romancing SaGa. I could tell because I just quit playing that game right before starting FF2.

Huh anon, it comes from Wizardry, and it's a staple mechanic of RPGs. At least FF2 lets you use long range weapons from the back row while many RPGs of the time would dedicated the back row to spellcasters

I don't really understand the appeal of JRPGs in general. It's just too much reading and not enough good gameplay. If I want to read, then I read a good book. Sure, FF7 was awesome back then, because you've never seen something like this before, but the gameplay in these games is still kinda shit. Just constant random battles where you mindlessly click through.

>>11839369
You should try playing a 80's RPG before posting in a thread about one.

>>11838929 (OP)
Psx was absolute dog shit.
I started with the PS1 games so went to play the remakes of 1 and 2 and the og FF3.
I really hated my time with II but at least the story was kind of interesting and much better than FFIV since the deaths hold weight.

>>11839353
Based and truth pilled

>>11839353
Hell yeah making me really want to play it now.

>>11839353
>The game system is designed so that insisting on doing too much grinding is a waste of time, and instead it is designed so that if you hit a difficulty spike your stats will quickly catch up in just a few fights; but instead people pretend what I just said doesn't exist and like you're supposed to spend 100 hours grinding in place or something or that you're supposed to bring all your spells and weapons to lvl16 when the game is balanced for them to be lvl8-11 by the end game.

I think people really like to inflate the amount of time they spend playing RPGs because the games are slow by nature (and that cutscenes and dialogue do add play time for better or for worse, but I'm talking about actual playing time here). If you're putting in a silly amount of hours at one time into one task in an RPG, and insisting about the "grind", then you're playing them badly. You should be putting in 2 hours at most in which you are working toward something. Certain games necessitate backtracking and within that is where your "grinding" should take place. I've been playing FF1 and I've had to exit dungeons a lot to resupply and save, and in doing that have grown a pretty strong team, and this is from playing a bit each night. I haven't done any "EXP farming" in one single location and if anything I use the run command when I feel like a battle is a waste of time because I want to move on.

>>11838929 (OP)
It has potential but doesn't deliver. Its like the opposite of Romancing Saga 1 where in this the interesting worldbuilding is held back by the annoying growth system while in Romancing Saga 1 the systems were better but the world building and nonsensical progression holds everything back.

>>11839484
>I think people really like to inflate the amount of time they spend playing RPGs

Maybe, but then you have gamefaqs autists who do grind for literal dozens of hours and recommend to others to do the same. And that's an issue with this game in particular since people didn't have access to official guides or even the manual, they could only trust gamefaq autists. Having the manual would have gone a long way with this game and players misunderstanding it.

As for FF1 I always say it's probably one of the most perfectly balanced RPG I've seen that manages to have spot on balancing while not requiring real grinding, so I don't think it's it's a good example in this case. By comparison in FF2 you will have to go through something like 6 or 12 fights when you stumble on a difficulty spike for your stats to catch up a bit, it's not much, but it's there.

P.S: I'm not anti gamefaqs, I have written guides for it

>>11839353
Yeah we know faggot you've posted this before

>>11839353
>ff2
>dq2
Just say you are a contrarian

>>11839985
>dq2
nothing contrarian about liking dq2

>>11839976
>>11839985
Complete D-tier posts.

Why wont they let kawazu give FF2 another run. SaGa gets the best remaster/remakes under him

>>11840097
FF 2 with SaGa mechanics might kind of work. I really like the keyword system and it could be great if everyone would at least answer with something other than ?
With active time lore becoming a more serious thing and full time “lore writers” always being a thing, I don’t see why the NPCs wouldn’t give you more information about the world they live in even if they don’t know much about whatever topic you brought up.
If he plans to add more weapon types, I don’t see why guns couldn’t be in the game. We have big ass dreadnaught battleships that can level cities but no guns?

>>11838929 (OP)
I beat the PSP version and I fucking regret it. Wasted 40 hours of my life

>>11840097
Kawazu isn't interested in returning to FF and dealing with all of the antics surrounding the IP. A new CC would be your best bet for Kawazu touching anything FF, but good luck getting him to do anything with a mainline game, save for some company disaster as with 12.

>>11840213
You were going to waste them anyway

>>11840213
Well yeah, that's what you get for choosing handheld remakes made in the 00's.

>>11839717
I took a look at the manual:
>In Final Fantasy 2, there is no concept of classes or experience points like in conventional Playing Role Games. How you fight determines your character.

>In essence, the system of growth for each ability is based on the idea that the more you use it, the more it grows. For example, each weapon and magic has a skill level, and the more you use a weapon or magic, the higher your skill level will increase, and the more powerful it will become.

>Also, the character's stats do not simply increase through repeated battles, but rather change depending on the fighting style and the outcome of each battle. Let's explain the character growth system in detail.

>Strength: Affects weapon accuracy and damage. Increases depending on the number of times you select the "Fight" command.

>Speed: Represents agility. Affects preemptive attack and evasion rate. Increases depending on the number of times you are attacked by the enemy.

>Stamina: Represents physicality. Affects HP gain and magic defense. Increases depending on the amount of HP lost.

>Intelligence: Affects the growth rate and damage of black magic. Increases depending on the number of times black magic is used.

>Spirit: Affects the success rate and damage of white magic. Increases depending on the number of times white magic is used.

>Magic Ability: Represents the strength of magic. Affects how MP increases and magical defense. Increases depending on the amount of MP lost.

>Preferred hand: The character's dominant hand.

>Attack: Represents the attack power of the equipped weapon (or dominant arm if equipped in both hands).

The manual makes it seem pretty straight forward.

>>11840543
>The manual makes it seem pretty straight forward.
Because it is. Still too much actual role playing for FFtards to handle.

>>11840097
Not going to happen since he is able to make SaGa games now. He's probably busy rethinking some of the mechanics in Unlimited Saga, none the less we don't know what the next SaGa game will be like.
>>11839985
Dragon Quest II isn't bad. It's the first game but bigger. More party members, a bigger world, thus more globe trotting in finding clues and discovering "secrets" to progress.
>>11839353
>when the game is balanced for them to be lvl8-11 by the end game.
Yeah, it's like trying to get to level 99 in most games. You can do it, but don't call the game grindy when you're doing something optional.

>>11840543
>Accuracy: Represents the attack power of the equipped weapon (or the dominant hand if equipped in both hands).

>Defence: Represents the total defensive power of the equipped armour.

>Evasion: Represents the level and success rate of avoiding enemy attacks. Increases when you become the target of an enemy attack.

>Magic Defence: Represents the level of dodging enemy special attacks and the success rate. Increases when you become the target of an enemy special attack.

>Proficiency: Represents the current level and points of each weapon. Affects the number of attacks and hit rate. When the points reach 100, the level increases by one. The level of the weapon equipped at the end of the battle (or bare hands if not equipped) increases. *Some stats will decrease when other stats increase.
>Intelligence...When strength increases
>Stamina...When strength increases
>Strength...When vitality increases

>>11840565
I always felt like stats were intended to be a push and pull mechanic and hardly that important unless they get really low. Your stats go up and down, but if you’re playing a balanced build then your stats will stay balanced while your weapons, armor, and magic get stronger. Your stats are more of a base, they don’t go very high even if you’re going for an all attack or all magic build. I think the only stats that go up permanently are accuracy and evasion, which are treated like skills anyway.

this game is too hard. where do i get the mythril. :-(

>>11840565
>>11840543
http://setsumei.html.xdomain.jp/famicom/finalfantasy2/finalfantasy2.html

It has explanations on stat decrease and warns not to try going for "red mage" type characters

>>11841662
Love Jap pages like this, feels like old Internet.

>>11841682
Check the top page. It has a description of the kind of environment / resolution the site is meant for and says it doesn't work properly on smartphones which is based beyond belief

>>11841691
The weapon proficiency makes sense in that it sounds like you're not just getting to the next town and immediately upgrading and yielding immediate results. Do different weapons have any other status effects?

How should I be building characters for a balanced pay through? Do melee characters differentiate at all? Like does a double sword guy vs a daggers guy vs a axe and shield guy change anything? Right now it all seems to be similar.

>>11841782
Your question kind of answers itself in how multiple stats in one character are upgradeable.

>>11841782
IIRC in the Famicom version dual wielding does not really yield a better damage output, though it may help raise stats. If you want an easier time make sure everyone has a shield

>>11838929 (OP)
First 3 Final Fantasy games are only worth playing on NES/Famicom for a number of reasons. Later ports of 1 and 2 mess up the art conceptually in a few areas by changing things in ways that fuck up the 80s Sci-fi/Fantasy aesthetic that was inherited from early Ultima. Mainly the space station in FF1 and the dreadnought in FF2. Every remake since PS1 keeps these changes too. It feels like at some point in the 90s they decided the famicom games didn't fit the rest of the series.

That's just art though, the gameplay is totally different too in the remakes. FF1 NES is balanced around spamming these big goofy bugged spells that hit all enemies, including BANE, QAKE, ZAP! and NUKE. The remakes change these, especially the instant death spells, to work more like they do in later games, IE they're basically useless.
FF1 is a really fun 80s RPG, and FF2 is an interesting experiment, but the remakes just play like a shitty version of FF4 with the caveat that "I mean we kinda copied the magic/exp systems from the original games, kinda."

>>11841820
>the dreadnought in FF2.

Damn I never noticed that, do you have comparison screenshots?

>>11838929 (OP)
FF is a pretty mid series in general, but people can't help thinking that popular/shilled things must be good and thinks unknown by most are bad.

>>11841878
Retard alert retard alert.

>>11841873
>>11841820
I'm looking it up and I don't think it's too bad? Definitely not on the scale of FF1's space station

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Dreadnought_(Final_Fantasy_II)

The remakes even have the pipes in the field that were in the battle background on NES

>>11841662
Interesting? But it if a certain stat hits 0, it’s inverse stat will still go up right? So what is the actual maximum stats that you can get?

>>11842613
A quick check and edit of the save RAM tells me that it's a single byte so in theory the max is 255, however past 99 it starts to include letters which shows that it's not officially supported so it may just be capped at 99

>>11838929 (OP)
I like the Famicom version, and I only played FF the series for the first time a few years back. Played them in order from 1-6; took a break before fucking with 3D era. So coming out of 1 might have had an effect, it was so different it was fun. I even fucked myself over because of game bugs I didn't know about until after the fact but I pushed through.

>bust your ass to get the Ultima spell
>even when it's functioning properly in later versions it's still shittier than the basic fire/ice/lightning spells you got 2 minutes in

Just how much did they expect you to grind to make it usable?

>>11842675
I spent like 4 hours grinding ultima because I figured you needed it but after I leveled it up it still did less than the sword attacks I was already doing. I dont remember if I thought I needed it for the last boss but I ended up triggering some glitch that gave me crazy damage and I won anyway.

I love ff2. I don't break the combat by grinding on my party hitting themselves, not sure if that makes a difference.

It honestly feels like an elder scrolls with Stats leveling up as you use them. I like there's usually a hub town you go get the next chuck of story then venture out, I like the story was a little weird and had good stakes (I can't recall but I'm pretty sure it's one of the higher character death counts in the franchise).

Shits good. People just ruin it for themselves by abusing the leveling

>>11842691
Is that the legendary double-bow glitch? I’ve never got it to work. Apparently if you inflict Guy with a shitload of statuses he will attack with two bows and deal shittons of damage. I was so obsessed with the concept that I made a whole D&D character based on it and had to endure insults as the Double Bow Guy but I insisted it was cool even though I’ve never got it to actually work in the game

>>11842849
is it legendary? I mentioned it on this board before and noone seemed to have heard of it. I was worried my rom was corrupted.

>>11842858
>1427 max hp
>779 max hp

Not bad at all, well played

>>11842858
>rebel army weird beaver bro
>bow in one arm
>bow in the other
>fucks your shit up

I once got Guy to 9999HP without trying, because i didn't know you needed to equip a shield to boost evasion so i just got my ass kicked by every undead enemy around. The endgame ones were hitting for 5k.

>>11843645
That happened to me when origins first came out, I was one of those beat yourself noobs and dual wielded everything. My magic was shit and cure was overpowered. I couldn’t beat the final bosses without the blood sword because they were bitchslapping me for 2000 like it was nothing. When I saw almighty Guy crippled by a 6000+ assraping I just gave up on strategy and went back to beating myself again

>>11838929 (OP)
I'm about to enter the Jade whatever, have been playing for a week or two (famicom w/ english patch)

the game is garbage, im so fucking sick of its bullshit

I don’t understand this game at all. I’m rescuing the princess and the best gear for my mages seems to naked but dual staffs. Not even using them. Biggest evasion without fucking over magic. I am truly baffled.

>>11846050
If you're focusing magic on one guy you're probably best off with 2 shields to max out evade.

>>11838929 (OP)
It's not a good FF game and later versions can't fix what's inherently wrong with it. For some reason S-E thought the issue was with the story and characters, the only saving graces of FF2, which is why FF3 reverted back to the blank slates and revolved around another metaconcept final boss.

>>11838929 (OP)
FFII is great, I'm playing it right now. But I'm not retarded like you, I'm playing it on PSP.

This is actual a replay, I've beaten it before. Meanwhile I've never touched FF3 or FF5, and have no interest

>>11841820
That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. The later versions fix tons and tons of bugs - they also have extra content like Soul of Rebirth. Not to mention the music is actually pleasant to listen to. Just retarded contrarian opinion

>>11846117
Let's be real, Soul of Rebirth ain't a selling point. You get a team full of ultraweak jobbers and almost nothing but mirrored pallet swaps of the Jade Passage/Pandemonium. You basically have no choice but to spend the bulk of it grinding.

>>11846117
>Not to mention the music is actually pleasant to listen to.
No, that is a retarted contrarian opinion

>>11846181
>Yeah dude just listen to NES farts and bloops for 30 hours, that's way better!
Contrarian "retart" opinion

>>11846261
The battle theme in FF 1 Famicom has an unmistakable sense of dread, the enemy feels like a real threat. The remakes made it sound “cool and epic and shit” and it sucks

>>11846261
You have to be 45 to post.

>>11846261
Did someone link /vr/ on your favourite tiktok or something?

>>11846262
You can hack the newer versions to put in whatever version of Battle 1 you want. I can teach you how to do it. Anyway, no, there's no dread in a battle theme that plays thousands of times while you're killing Rat 1 and Pirate 3

>>11846268
>>11846268
yall whack fr I never come here I just saw this post by accident
anyway I'm going back to playing Final Fantasy 2 on my Fortnite

>>11846261
chiptunes will always be superior to your soundcloud rapper bullshit.

>>11846773
Some NES games still hold up, others don't. Final Fantasy 2 on NES is a fucking mess. Lmao at defending it

You're not even defending it, cause this thread seems mostly to be about shitting on FF2.... while also playing the shit version. Retardos

>>11846106
>But I'm not retarded like you, I'm playing it on PSP.
>>>/v/

>>11846793
Enjoy your broken game I guess

>>11838929 (OP)
Nah, it fucking sucks. Did a write-up on why:
https://pastebin.com/fN8ywHnh

The PS1 version improves things a good bit, but the GBA version nerfs the game way too hard, and all future ports/remasters are based on the GBA version.

>>11844427
>I'm about to enter the Jade whatever
That's the 2nd to last area before the final dungeon, so it's almost over.

>>11846050
Yeah that's one of the issues with FF2: Armor is bad. Unironically the best defense is unequipping all armor so that your EVADE goes up and attacks just miss.

>>11846946
I agree with most stuff in this pastebin and I still think its a better game than FF1

>>11846967
I've played through NES FF1 on real hardware multiple times; no savestates or turbo mode. It's fun and I love it.
FF2 on the other hand, playing through it one time on an emulator for turbo mode, it was still a horrible slog and I never want to touch it again.

>>11846973
I wouldn't want to play either again, FF3 is when the series actually became respectable.

>>11846946
>https://pastebin.com/fN8ywHnh
>-Being able to build your characters however you want is nice in theory, but in reality you end up with 2 melee and 1 caster, because the game literally lowers your INT stat when you gain STR, and vice versa. You cannot have a "melee and caster" character; the developers explicitly said they don't want you to do that. >And because of the above point, offensive magic fucking sucks ass anyway.

I've done it, in the Famicom version and in the PSX version, and found that it worked pretty well. Meaning I had a character which was decent at both melee and magic (while the other 2 characters also had a bit of MP so I could use them for healing spells as back up)

> I don't know why the fuck they changed it like this when FF1's inventory allowed consumable items to stack to 99 in one slot.

They changed it because the new system allows to use items in combat, which FF1 didn't, thus there needed to be a limit to keep a balance. Plus, unlike in FF1, every character can easily use healing magic anyway both in an dout of combat so you don't need to rely on potions as much as in 1.

As for having to have the item within the character's inventory for it to be useable, yeah that's how things worked in RPGs at the time. The whole "magic infinite item bag for everyone" was not a standard at the time.

Same thing for the back row system or the encounter rate: standards of the time. People always play FF2, an 80's Famicom RPG, and expect to see standards from the 90's in it for some reasons; probably because in the west people only started playing FF2 in the late 90's/early 00's.

>>11847021
>>Same thing for the back row system or the encounter rate: standards of the time. People always play FF2, an 80's Famicom RPG, and expect to see standards from the 90's in it for some reasons;
No, they just don't want to be playing the game for 100 hours. Those limitations just make the game a pain in the ass.

Except the back row, that shit's obvious, I don't know what that complaint is about, it's just a standard front row/back row system

I’ve been playing the pixel remaster and it’s not bad so far. I’m maybe like half way through. I think the whole little keyword story thing is kind of fun. Feels more like a D&D adventure. Running around finding and asking specific people about specific topics was a cool way to copy that mechanic into a game. The combat is kind of whatever to me. I like FF1 way better but this one still gives the feeling of oh no my resources are depleting. I gotta conserve mana incase I need healing or warping. Pretty good so far.

>>11847079
FFII isn't a 100 hour game. Outside of the MMORPGs, Final Fantasy games aren't 100 hour games to just beat the story.

>limited inventory

You mean you don't know how to edit the save RAM to delete key items once they're not needed anymore?

>>11848624
>the game is good if you cheat and hack it

>>11848296
>FFII isn't a 100 hour game
It is if you start playing it with annoying limitations from the NES era

>>11848813
dont lie to people who know the truth, who are you trying to impress?

>>11848867
What a clown you are. I said things clearly, but you're just too retarded to get it. Yes, those limitations increase the playtime significantly, and not in a good way, which is why people don't like them.

>>11848234
I feel like the keyword stuff is totally pointless, since it boils down to exhausting every possible option until you get a response that isn't "?"
About the only notable thing I can say about it is that when you try to enter the Dreadnought, saying the wrong keyword clues the guard in that you're a rebel and he fights you.

>>11849154
It still adds to the feeling that you're having conversations with NPCs, since some conversations involve multiple words

>>11849095
>Yes, those limitations increase the playtime significantly
what is significantly to you? 70 hours? That seems to be what you think the difference between versions is.

>>11849202
Depends how good you are at the game, retard. Not to mention, the game isn't counting your failures in its save file. You do realize that, don't you? Or maybe no. Maybe you're that retarded

>>11847079
> it's just a standard front row/back row system
In later FFs, the back row can always be targeted, but has all melee damage in/out cut in half essentially. In FF2 they're immune to melee targeting/attacking to physical entirely, and it can only exist if there is at least one person on the front row. Honestly I always liked how FF2 handled it more than later entries, as its more strategic and better resembles an actual combat formation. Unfortunately it makes it piss easy to lightning rod a specific character, which makes throwing two shields and buffs on a single front liner while everyone else uses bows and magic stupid effective. Later games you just put non-melee classes on the back line and don't have them physically attack to enjoy your casters and archers basically having perma-protect (which then stacks with actual protect) while they plink away between casts.
Also speak for yourself, people *used* to want to get 100+ hours out of their games. Because buying them with physical money was expensive and you wanted to get every dollar's worth out of the game you bought. You either did and grew an appreciation for it, or you didn't and got rid of it to recoup a fraction of what you had spent on it at some place like Funcoland. Games weren't always about seeing the ending screen, adn we sure as hell weren't speedrunning content we invested so much into before even plugging it in.

>>11849205
Imagine getting called a retard by someone who takes an extra 70 hours to beat FF2 just because its on the famicom. You keep calling me retard like im not aware of how clocks work or not familiar with the cumulative time keeping systems that exist in shit like retroach and wii virtual console.

>>11849206
The wall of text rant calls it "dumb", which doesn't make sense. Like you said, it's better than a typical front/back row system, if anything. But it's not like it's a huge difference.

People wanna spend 100 hours on games, just not on grandpa's stone-age Final Fantasy game
Things have changed a lot, Xbox was the one who realized that the most, with thei Game Pass shit. Just give me 100 games, and I'll play them for an hour tops. That's what people do

>>11849216
>People wanna spend 100 hours on games, just not on grandpa's stone-age Final Fantasy game
Speak for yourself. People who grew up when things worked that way were forced to learn to appreciate as many details from the games they play as they can. Gaming isn't supposed to be speed dating, and many of the best stories in the medium require investment and delayed gratification, sometimes even multiple playthroughs and hidden side plots to make them as good as they are. Especially in fucking RPGs. What else would you be there for, the little numbers that appear when enemies take damage?
There are plenty of excellent games that do not require depth of investment to appreciate, but the ones that do have their time/place/niche to fill for the rest of us.
>Just give me 100 games, and I'll play them for an hour tops. That's what people do
Quantity over quality is a terrible perspective for an entertainment based medium. We had entire platforms succumb to that shit.

>play for the first time
>make a wrong turn on the way back from Fynn
>get raped by endgame tier enemies
Why was the overworld enemy placement so SHIT?

>>11849234
people praise this because its "open world"

>>11849234
It may seem like a pretty bold move but it's not unheard of. You could do the same in DQ1 for instance, or even DQ2 and 3 once you get the boat. I haven't played Ultima gamse but I'm sure that's where it came from.

Plus you can save anywhere on the world in FF so it's not so bad, at best you should lose a few mins of progress

The best part of this in FF2 though was figuring out a strategy to be able to reach Myssidia early on, I did it as soon as Minwu joined once. Then I grinded cash while on the brink of death every fight to afford late game gear and spells there which set me up for a good half of the game.

>>11849240
I actually ended up in Mysidia ery early my first time playing, and didn't think to just savescum my way back to the main part of the game. So i just grinded on Bombs until i could manage to get back.

>>11849243
Bombs are the way

>>11849234
Because games where the entire overworld scales to your level have absolutely zero sense of suspense in exploration.
>>11849238
And when later open world games "fixed" this mistake, it was universally considered a bad thing.
>>11849240
Is an example of turning this into a positive. Monsters in FF2 have Ranks, which is essentially a type of threat level that a given encounter layout is given based on the monsters present. This affects everything down to the rate you build proficiencies, which basically prevent you from gaining experience vs enemies weaker than you while rewarding you for fighting outside your comfort zone. Being punished for going the wrong way is one of the biggest things RPGs have lost over the years, honestly. There's a reason it gets praised when it comes back in non-retro games, while people tend to hate stuff like the overworld's "threat" scaling to the player.

>>11849225
I don't speak for myself. I'm speaking for most people.

>>11849667
Cool. Doesn't make what you said any less retarded, especially considering this is a fucking retro board in a discussion about an rpg from nearly 40 years ago.

>>11849679
No... this is a thread about the comparison between the shit NES version, and the improved versions that came later that are still retro btw. Nice try though. Maybe you should try the newer versions?

>>11849686
Those versions don't address anything your
>give me oops I mean people that aren't me 100 games on gamepass to play for an hour each.
or your
>"grandpa's stone-age Final Fantasy game"
comments, and the core game is still the same between versions. I actually play the GBA version most often, even if I don't consider it the best one, just due to convenience. You're shifting the goal posts to "other people" which is honestly unfair to the other zoom zooms who actually want to learn to appreciate things that came before them.

I’m playing the Pixel Remaster right now and it seems really easy. With one white mage type dude you don’t need items or money. Your evasion and defense is like 99% a few hours into the game. Am I crazy? The only hard battles are status effect shit. But that’s pretty rare. Did the remaster make it way easier or something?

>>11849697
No... the NES version is very different from the newer versions. This thread literally already went over that.

Anyway, grandpa, you don't need to get upset about me pointing out that some old games are mega old and mega busted. I figured you would know most of all what it means to be old, right? And I don't have an Xbox I was just saying something that applies to most people

The only legitimate thing you point out is that yeah, why would most nowadays bother with Final Fantasy 2? The answer is they wouldn't. But if they're going to they actually might have a chance to enjoy it if they play a version that's not busted

>>11849706
Yeah. The PR is not the version to play. It also doesn't have the extra content from GBA/PSP

>>11849706
I'm assuming you just got Minh? He's a bit of a starter party member to cover for the lack of support ability you've gotten to that point. He's basically a guest character you can control, who gives you a preview of what building a party member into a white mage archetype might look like.
I have no doubt the PR version is piss easy compared to the others, that should mostly be centered around all its "QoL" shit, but in general FF2 is a game where the difficulty comes from self control. You have near unlimited grind potential to the point where people consider your max HP/MP almost like a score when you beat the game. The best way to play is to not take advantage of the meta shit people have figured out over the years and just play it organically. The problem is that some mechanics are unintuitive and require research to fully understand regardless of the version. So essentially:
>look into how mechanics and stats work, but don't take advantage of ways to exploit them
is the best advice I could give.

>>11849719
I know they're different overall you fucking dip, I was talking about things that are consistent between versions. I should have known you were functionally retarded but I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

>>11849719
>>11849724
Ahh damn ya thanks. From what I read online your HP goes up only if your HP drops to less than half or something in the original? HP and MP just seem to go up random in the pixel remaster even if you just cast one spell or take a little bit of damage.

>>11849746
HP and MP are based on a chance system that varies a bit between versions, so not sure on the specifics for the PR version, but essentially they get a chance to raise as they are lowered in battle, with 50% generally being the cap IIRC. So you would generally have the best chance for them to go up the more they are depleted in any given battle, with the magic and stamina stats being how much they improve by. Evasion similarly gets a chance to go up every time a party member is targeted, stamina goes up by getting hit, soul/int go up by casting white/black magic respectively, etc. But most of the growths are chance based, so the general idea is that the more naturally you play a character into an archetype, the more they'll grow into it. Due to the rank system capping at... 7? for the most part enemies are grouped into incremental strengths, so its not a game focused around watching your stats go up every single fight unless you want to turbo tism your team, but that also takes the challenge out of it entirely.
Another little nugget is to make sure that you level up spells like esuna if you're not planning on hoarding the items for them. Spells in item form tend to be the level 8 equivalent, and spells like Esuna remove one new type of ailment per level, so once you start getting into stronger ailments its easy to get caught unprepared. Magic in general is a bit more involved than most FFs, due to the proficiency/chance to hit/number of hits/etc factors, and thats before even getting into spells like Shell or Wall and how they affect them. It also uses three "bodies (mind, body, and spirit) which is the general system the game uses for a lot of things like resistances to ailments (with almost every enemy in the game being vulnerable to at least one, so while Sleep might not work, Stun might, if you're wondering why some spells are similar.)

>>11849823
No one cares, grandpa

>>11849918
Better a grandpa than a fetus

>>11849823
I care. That’s sick thanks. There’s so much cool shit in this game. The ideas are really neat. The spells are wild. They take so long to level, but they’re so fucking good once leveled up. I love shit like death and warp and teleport as attacks. Casting death was super fun in in FF1. In this game it feels like kind of a risk to level up anything you don’t think you’ll use. The mana drain spell is neat. I really feel like I can go without items the entire run between mana drain, swap, and heal and life on every character. The status cure one is weird. The fact that level 1 doesn’t cure some statuses makes it feel like I might have to grind that one a bit though.

Oh also are the barrier type spells like protect and shell worth leveling at all? In the other final fantasy they were great. In this one I feel like even bosses don’t last long enough for it to be effective / worth leveling.

>>11850138
Spells like Osmose are rare as fuck in pretty much every version, and a lot of the black magics in general (and some white) are drops, so you generally don't want to focus on looking to specific spells unless you want to spoil yourself on who drops them and grind when available. But for the most part the white magics you can buy can be pretty sick, but pretty much all magic becomes considerably more effective as you level it, so they all start pretty ass. If you want to have someone build into a mage naturally, you basically get ethers and tents and buckle down into them only casting ever to get both the levels and the MP to sustain the increasing casting costs.
>>11850145
The up side is that spells like blink can get absurdly good values as they level, so they become both really good effect wise and a good usage for growing your magic character.

>>11850205
I think black magic, even at low levels, is solid to good when considering elemental weaknesses. I like to carry a few different spells that I can rotate to either exploit weaknesses, or to maintain a low mana cost.

>>11850226
Honestly, you only really need Fire and maybe Lightning for the elements, as they make up the vast majority of elemental weaknesses that aren't holy. Flare is good for its consistency with enemies not weak to fire but you get it too late to matter much. I hate to even say it, but I actually think FF2 would benefit from a randomizer romhack just for the spells alone. Would change how mages progress by a lot.

>>11849724
>You have near unlimited grind potential to the point where people consider your max HP/MP almost like a score when you beat the game. The best way to play is to not take advantage of the meta shit people have figured out over the years and just play it organically. The problem is that some mechanics are unintuitive and require research to fully understand regardless of the version. So essentially:
>>look into how mechanics and stats work, but don't take advantage of ways to exploit them
>is the best advice I could give.
This is how I aim to play it, I think I'll enjoy it a lot.

>>11850268
Today it feels like a weird type of discipline, but back when I first played the translation there wasn't anywhere near as much info about the game out there, so I went through it blind as shit about a lot of things. It didn't take long for people to figure out shit like the attack cancel glitch and the blood sword trick, but I didn't know how the ultima spell even worked until the gba version was out. Each time I replayed with glitches I felt like there was more missing, until eventually I went into the GBA version forcing myself to not use any exploits since the bug was fixed but the progression rate was also accelerated a bit. Learned the differences and what things I hadn't learned about the original, and went from there. Favorite playthrough and not even my favorite version.

>>11849667
really strange how "most people", by your estimation, seem to agree with you and are also retards

man ultima ain’t fucking bad in this game. the damage scales pretty fast and it seems to be the most damage you can do against shit like the wood golems. the sword and axe do like half on them

>>11850316
lol the guy is the lorax but for retards. pretty noble.

>>11850316
>>11850407
I see, it's a thread for smart people like you, who play the broken NES version, and another guy or samefag who plays the PR version, the 2nd worse version.
You guys are smart people, my bad

>>11850581
Broken this, broken that, you need to actually play games to completion actively instead of repeating round and round in your mind the features which are bugged that you can get past easily.

>>11850596
I'm kinda shocked at how fast you reply, you really must live on 4chan, I've never seen a worse case of needing to touch grass

>>11850606
You can't dog on someone saying they reply quickly while doing the same yourself.

Oh and yeah, the NES versions of FF2 are busted to hell. Any wiki or comparison will tell you that. It's barely playable by normal people.

>>11850608
Huh? It's been 2 and half hours, I just showed up and you're here lol

Okay I just beat the final boss. Not a bad game. I liked the story and how you’re constantly trying to progress the plot. I have a question about the final boss fight maybe spoilers:

My physical attacks did no damage at all. And his attack heal was nuts. My strategy was just back row everyone and spam Life with my side characters and spam Ultima with my mage. This kept them all at around 500hp so his attack heals didn’t heal for thousands. What a weird fight. Is that how it’s supposed to go? 3 of my characters were melee only and had shields the whole way through but would get 2 shot by the boss anyway. I didn’t expect him to be so tough given the rest of the fights haha

>>11850606
I'm a British person posting while working, believe it or not there are multiple people in this thread.

Also thanks for the thread 4chan. FF2 is easily the entry I put off completing for the longest. I’ll have to replay it on famicon some day. Next time I want to do a dedicated white mage and a dedicated black mage. As weird as the system was it didn’t end up playing a too differently than other final fantasy games. I wish all the characters just had dedicated jobs like they did in 4 though. I loved 1 and 5, but I think set job classes would have made more sense for the FF2 story.

>>11850675
The first three FF titles really appeal to me for their world and visuals, after that I'm very selective, I have almost no interest in the SFC titles, I like 7 but I've always liked 7, never really been into 8 and might replay 9. The original three though are just really inviting.

>>11850654
Since he focuses on draining so much, the idea is to use draining back against him. The blood sword does absurd damage to him, so the old trick was to buff the fuck out of a single dual wielding blood sword user and you could kill him in like 2-3 turns relatively easily. Honestly I'm glad you did it the hard way, makes it much more fitting as a final boss. Glad you found some fun in it, it really is a unique entry in the series that people either look at surface level or spoil for themselves. That can obviously apply to the others, but its particularly egregious with 2.
>>11850675
I get what you mean, and you can build characters exactly like specific jobs from other games in the series even, but there just weren't the techniques and abilities that set those classes apart yet. Even in 3 the classes are pretty barebones, and some are just straight up obsolete the second the better version arrives until eventually you just run ninja and sage parties unless you apply the discipline mentality from 2 and force yourself to use sub-optimal jobs. Even in 4 I thought the classes kinda sucked ass, i still think 6 was the first one with fixed classes where it actually felt good.
SE have kinda retroactively tried to give the wild rose rebels their own "classes" in later media where they have them based on their default equipment, but getting even Maria up to level 16 with bare fists is just too hilariously broken to not do at least once.

>>11838956
It works fine as long as you don't know about it before hand

>>11852020
The classic OLD and LAME jobs
Frionel: swordfighter
Maria: mage
Guy: axe fighter
Leon: magic knight

The modern NEW and BADASS jobs
Frionel: blood teleporter
Maria: 16-double-fister
Guy: double bow guy
Leon: fire tome puncher

>>11838929 (OP)
I hated it the first time I played it and years later I gave it another try and loved it. The biggest issue was trying to max out certain abilities by end game was a joke. You can never max out Ultima attack without grinding sandworms for hours, using the auto battle method in newer versions.
The story, while minimal is better than 1 3 and 4.
It might be the most autistic title I’ve played so far but it still was fun for me.

>>11846261
Lol based anon, fuck the tendies

>>11855149
>It might be the most autistic title I’ve played
It is a Kawazu game, so that tracks.

>>11846262
>famicom
You will never be Japanese
>>11846106
I played the ps1 version on my vita
>>11846989
3 is my favorite but 1&2 are the same tier

>>11855440
>3 is my favorite but 1&2 are the same tier
…but why 3?

>>11855472
A lot of jobs. Japanese nerds have never had so many jobs. And a lot of the jobs felt good at the time

>>11838929 (OP)
I can't speak for FF2 but FF1 Origins is one of the few examples where a remake completely and utterly outclasses the original.

>>11855472
why not 3? Have you even played it?

>>11855802
Still managed to fuck up the space station though

>>11855472
TA, 3 is my favorite for the job classes and the intense buildup to the final boss. There is a lot of risk going into the cloud of darkness fight and you're spending 2 hours grinding to get there only to be nuked and sent to your last save state. I like the stakes of it, but it's not for everyone. The story of 3 is boilerplate, but the neat things like the midget village, the move to better transports and the need to find best equipment are tailored to my tastes.

>>11855802
Based

>>11838929 (OP)
I remember damage in this being really swingy. Like you can hit a monster, do 50 damage, then hit them again with the same character doing the same attack and do 250 damage.

>>11838956
If you need more evade you just stick someone with dual shields in the front row and put everyone else in the back row and wait, it's not that hard to manipulate besides enemies fleeing.

>>11839304
The most recent version of FFII uses the modern row system and it fucks up the game entirely because you may as well just leave them in the front row and get the stats you need to be in the front row. The game is also big on status effect on hit attacks because the back row can't be hit with them to keep you from say, getting your entire party paralyzed on turn 1 in an ambush. Even if you do use the back row it means your front row doesn't build evade faster.

Romancing Saga came way the fuck after FFII.

>>11849706
Starting from GBA the game gives you free HP on a regular basis, plus PR's encounter rate is jacked to the moon so you end up with an assload of HP and proficiency at the highest currently possible value for most of the game.

The real worst thing about FFII is the dungeon design is absolute fucking wet dogshit. The dungeons are fundamentally significantly smaller than FF1 and they "make up for it" by having dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of doors that lead to empty trap rooms, you will literally go through multiple dungeons in a row where only one door on the last floor actually leads to literally anything whatsoever besides an identical square room with (except for PR) increased encounter rate.

>>11856040
Hey anon I've only played the ps1 version, how far off from current remakes and the OG version

>>11856040
>by having dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of doors that lead to empty trap rooms,

I was going to say you're exagerating by I just went and counted and there are 83 of those rooms. With that said they're pretty quick to explore and even on NES you can often exit them without triggering an encounter.
Also there are entire dungeons without a single trap room or some which only have a couple, and similar square rooms with chests in them also exist.

I find the problems with II are super exaggerated and not nearly the offense they are portrayed as. Minor annoyances at worst, but mostly below notice.

I think people like to have something to shit on relentlessly without fear of any pushback from others, and II has been agreed to be the whipping boy of the 2D FFs. It's clearly the weakest in a solid series, but by no means a bad game itself and wouldn't be looked at so harshly if it wasn't an obscure entry in a 40 year old franchise.

>>11856165
Based take except I enjoy it more than 5

>>11856165

>>11856127
Like in order it goes original > WSC > PS1 > GBA > PSP > PR in terms of evolution

WSC doubled inventory, fixed some bugs, and made other minor changes as well as introducing dashing and target switching optionally
PS1 removed magic interference on weapons which makes entire categories of equipment like staves completely pointless but is otherwise very similar to WSC
GBA fixed the action canceling exploit, removed stat penalties, gave you occasional free stat increases, made sprint and target switching permanently on, rewrote the script in Japanese, and added a bonus dungeon with the guest party members
PSP added another bonus dungeon and defending
PR is on a whole other engine so there is PR wide things like enemies acting completely randomly rather than having scripted sequences, back row targeting, and magic interference being reintroduced although the numbers are a little different

Somewhere along the line it was also changed from your HP and MP increases being calculated based on their values before and after battle to the actual HP lost and MP used during it but I can't remember if that was PR or earlier. Some magic gets fiddled with every release (particularly Ultima) and they all have different save systems based on how the hardware works.

>>11856165
>It's clearly the weakest
no

>>11856171
I'll agree that I like the setting, story and characters better than V. I could say music, but there just aren't enough tracks in II. I do wish it had an MSX port like the first one, because the music on that version was insanely good.

I do love job systems though so I can't put it over V entirely.

>>11856178
Thanks for the effort reply anon, earnestly. One more question, what is WSC, I can only think of wonderswan? I had version on my blackberry in 2010 and I thought it was a 1:1 with the ps1 remake.

>>11856189
WonderSwan Color

>>11856184
It's funny because I love tactics, 1, and 3 is my all time fave but I've never been able to enjoy 5. I love job systems but 5 filtered me. I maybe should go against my own ethic of never using guides and try 5 reading up on the job system and how to implement it better. I think the classes I chose are just ass or something.

>>11856192
NES: only version where it looks like a savage mad beast instead of an intelligent being.

>>11856165
>I find the problems with II are super exaggerated
Because you likely played the GBA remake or any of the ports that came after it.

Try playing the original NES version and you'll see just how mindblowingly shit the game is.

>>11856201
True, and personally I like the darker and bleaker background. The remakes look like some Arabian sand fortress, I prefer the gray dungeon look instead. One of my biggest gripes with the PR is the lack of contrast and darkness in general, everything is just kind of bright and washed out.

I liked it, it was fun

>>11856284
>I liked it, it was fun
That's all that matters

>>11856284
Based Frionel

>>11855798
The jobs were practically forced at specific points in the game, many jobs were just straight up improved versions of others with little to no downsides, Abilities were barely a thing yet so they were basically just stat and equipment restrictions. Most just shuffled around magic, defend, and flee. 5 and Tactics would run years later because 3 walked, but it walked pretty fucking slow. It was experimental and a lot of things needed to go back to the drawing board.
>>11855803
Its not that its a terrible game, and it set a lot of groundwork for later titles, but it was not a very fun experience, neither on the original FC translation decades ago nor the attempts at giving it personality later. It had its moments but the job system was all it was really there for. The bottlenecking gimmicks like the mini sections were fucking ass for a game that's main selling point was creating your own party composition and leveling them up in the appropriate classes, and the job change fatigue in the old versions made it even worse. A for effort and ideas, F for execution for different reasons regardless of the version, so it just kinda falls in the middle. Bravo to the ones who appreciate it, but theres a lot to dislike as well.
>>11855841
Why would you talk about stakes and save states in the same sentence? Did you mean the manual save you need to make between halves of what is effectively the final dungeon? I get the stakes appreciation, but that gauntlet was basically designed to again pidgeonhole you to turn anyone melee into a ninja and anyone casting into a sage. Running it with lesser job parties just feels like torture, especially knowing you're risking hours of progress out of sheer stubbornness.

>>11855940
The game doesn't register just one hit, each level of proficiency basically adds another attempt. So if you have a 6 in Swords, that means that each attack with a sword is 6 separate attacks, with the result being the number that succeeded minus the number that were evaded. Affects status ailments as well, which means they can last extremely long durations when leveled. Also why evade and magic evade (both their levels and percentages) are so important. People shit on magic because its buggy or grindy depending on the version you're playing, but dedicated magic characters can be really fun to use when you know what to use beyond the obvious buff shit like Aura and Blink.
>>11856040
Agreed on the dungeon designs. The themes and such were interesting sometimes, and it was kinda neat having one where going multiple floors the wrong direction led to an optional monster village where you could buy neat shit and get a few hints, but stuff like the "pick a door" forced encounter rooms were pretty dogshit.
>>11856165
I agree but I wouldn't call 2 the weakest, just the most detatched from what the FF formula would later become. When your only FF before it was 1, there was some wild ambition in there that makes it very unique. A lot of the hate comes from brainlets wondering when they get to buy Firaga to replace their Fire that does no damage for some reason. A lot of it often really is just misunderstanding the mechanics and giving up.

>>11856178
Based breakdown, Actually didn't know that about the HP/MP growth trigger change. Can you really have them activate in PR if you healed/osmosed the losses away? What a pointlessly shit change.
>>11856192
FC, with DoS being the most acceptable modernization. I don't like any of the updated designs and think they're just cluttered Amano shit, so even though the PSP ones look better, they're just too fucking busy for a ragtag group of orphan survivors staging a resistance after being nearly murdered in the first moments of the game. Last one is just trash that looks worse than sprite edits I did in paint 20 years ago somehow.
>>11856230
Black backgrounds with a top bezel to show location will always be kino to me. 1-3 just feel wrong with full backgrounds for some reason, almost like some kind of augmented reality kind of gimmick instead of actually being there anyway.
>>11856284
Glad you enjoyed it.
>>11856307
Equally based for not calling him Firion.

Anyone play the NES Dragon Warrior games? I’m curious how they compare to the first few FF games. I’ve played FF 1-3 and enjoyed them, but only ever got through DQ 1 and a bit of 2 and 3. For me it’s just the pacing of the story is so much faster. You do the thing for the local guy in trouble and you’re on to the next adventure. DQ felt more like find and explore this over there. What do you guys think? I’ll have to play DQ to give it a fair shake.

>>11856903
Yeah the original dq trilogy is good. I actually like 3 a bit better than 4.

I really like Leon, just saying 'fuck the Emperor, I'm in charge now' was based, but doubling down when the Emperor came back instead of bending the knee was double based

>>11856903
>Anyone play the NES Dragon Warrior games?
yeah millions of people
>I’m curious how they compare to the first few FF games
DQ4 > DQ3 > FF3 > DQ2 > FF2 > DQ1 > FF1

When you compare DQ3 to FF1 which came out a month apart theres no competition.

>>11857004
People talk about Ricard starting the dragoons in the series, but I'll consider him the first Dark Knight just for that move alone. Man put his greatness before his pride.