Let's talk about the Jaguar. What was the best game for this badboy? And why did it fail? Is there anything that makes it worth owning (or even emulating) in 2025?

Rayman is the best game , the only masterpiece of this console

best version of wolfenstein 3d because it cuts the bloat.

>>11899526 (OP)
I've never played it but people have always raved about Tempest 2000

>>11899527
Seems to be pure kino, However I'm in Europe, I was researching it this week and I couldn't find out whether Rayman was released in Europe? Or was it only NA?

>>11899528
Wolfenstein looks great, only problem is Wolfenstein is kinda boring in the current year ... I found it to be not worth re-visiting when you have games like Quake on a modern PC with Mouse + Keyboard controls. Kinda beats Wolfenstein on a D-pad out of the water.

It's funny how the Jaguar box boasts about MADE IN USA as a dig at Japanese consoles, while 90% of games were developed by European computer programmers.

>>11899541
I think that's because a bunch of Amiga games were ported over to it, Amiga never got a strong foothold in the U.S.

>>11899542
Europeans loved Atari ST computer (i.e. it was cheaper than Amiga) and kept making games for it. I think many people back then would be thrilled to work with Atari directly on games for more capable hardware.

I borrowed a Jaguar and a handful of games from a friend. It was alright. The controller is very uncomfortable.
Tempest 2000 seems mediocre and even almost shitty at first, but gets better and better the more you play it, it's addictive.
White Men Can't Jump sucks, don't play it.
There was a pinball game that I can't remember the name of, but it was fun in small doses.
The port of Raiden on it is good, unfortunately you won't be playing it long until your hands start to hurt because the controller is so shitty.
There was a shitty racing game I can't remember the name of, and a couple of platformers that were average at best that I also don't remember the names of.

Those are my only memories of the Jaguar.

>>11899541
They're white though.

>>11899526 (OP)
Jaguar AnthemI know it's not supposed to sound like that
https://youtu.be/AgIuO71I818

>>11899526 (OP)
I don't think there's much to recommend.
Tempest 2000 is hands down the best game on the system. Great exclusive that you might enjoy if you like arcade games.
Aforementioned Rayman and Wolfenstein 3D.
Alien vs Predator is an fps exclusive worth checking out if you're a fan of the movies. Bit lacking by today's standards, but I always wanted to own Jaguar back in the day because of the crossover game alone. Glad I did not.
Missile Command 3D is a nice attempt at a classic.
I think Jaguar has the best version of Brutal Sports Football too.
That's about it.

>>11899774
>Great exclusive
I mean, its about as exclusive as Rayman is.

>>11899781
Oh yeah, you're right. I think it's the best version then?

>>11899783
>I think it's the best version then?

Found this handy little comparison video with the Playstation version when I was browing Youtube for Jaguar stuff yesterday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b40hjWIQUZQ

>>11899804
I was thinking of Tempest 2000. I never played the first Rayman on Jaguar, but I'll check the video out of curiosity.

>>11899815
I've never heard of Tempest on any other system ... Although it probably exists, I'm sure.

What I did hear is that they were planning a sequel to Tempest for the Atari Jaguar CD, but development was dropped because the Jaguar CD pretty much died when the Playstation was launched in 1995.

>>11899526 (OP)
I want one but they're really expensive now. If only they didn't turn all their unsold Jags into dental equipment.

>>11899825
Yeah, they're expensive. Except one game (for some weird reason), Myst on the Jaguar CD. There's 3 copies of it for sale in my country right now, wrapped in plastic, for dirt cheap. No idea why, lol.

>>11899820
There is a PC version of 2000 and pretty sure the PS1 version is called like Tempest X3 or something odd.

>>11899825
I have a box for the system and a couple games, even CD, but I have never found one for sale that wasnt at a game convention.

>>11899851
Are you thinking about selling it?

>>11899854
Nah, i still really want the console, its just not a high priority buy for me yet. Maybe next year when i go to TooManyGays or some other con where I can offload some junk towards one.

>>11899526 (OP)
Alien Vs Predator is the best game that's still an exclusive and we all know this. Like the 32X I'd be pissed if I paid full price for this BITD.

>>11899869
Sure, Alien VS Predator is an exclusive for the system, but is it worth playing over the later AvP games on PC? I don't think so. Unless you are an extreme kind of Aliens fan.

>>11899881
It's a fun game and probably the best game on the Jag that's still an exclusive..

>>11899884
Cybermorph was pretty fun, I guess ...

I think you'll get a more mileage out of the Jaguar if you're following the homebrew scene. There are some diehard fans who release new games for it.

>>11899887
I was curious about the Jaguar Homebrew scene, do you know of any websites where I can check out the games that are available?

The only ones I've found so far were ports of "The Chaos Engine" and "Gods" and honestly, they were going at a pretty choppy framerate, definitely better experienced on Amiga emulation.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I have to say that the Atari Jaguar is probably my cutoff point for "consoles that matter to anybody". Like, I can see why people would be fans of the Saturn in its time and to this day, but Jaguar, not so much.

>>11899886
No it wasn't. I hated it before AVGN. It didn't seem like what a 64 bit game was like, it seemed like an open world Starfox, but abysmally shitty.

I liked Iron Soldier well enough if we're talking 3D games.

>>11899939
I like the box

>>11899939
For me it's simply the fact that I had one growing up, and it's got a really cool design to it. That red + black is a sweet color combination.

Basically a bunch of best ports, some great games with active homebrew. My favorite is Protector SE for being a sweet upgrade of defender. Atari shelved it, not to confuse Defender 2000 which would end up being a hyper cracked up version of the original, but later re released and enhanced on the aftermarket. It was also developed by Bethesda.

It feels Atari could have sold a whole bunch more by being able to sell it properly to europeans. A whole bunch of other things, but it wasnt going to survive SONY or the saturn. I think for the 2 years it had in the sun it could have probably doubled its library and 500k+ consoles sold.

As for the best games..

Alien vs Predator
Battlemorph
Battlesphere 2000
Cannon Fodder *best console port
Cybermorph *best with rapid fire mod
Doom *best port, at the time performed as well as a 2000 dollar PC at the time
Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story *best port
Flashback: The Quest for Identity *best port
Iron Soldier 1 and 2. *first one might be too easy, second one might be too hard.
NBA JAM: Tournament Edition *best port
Power Drive Rally
Raiden *needs rapid fire mod
Rayman *IMO, best version
Ruiner Pinball
Skyhammer *Not utterly excellent, good but a good show of 3D capabilities of the jaguar
Super Burnout
Syndicate *best console port
Tempest 2000
Towers 2: Enhanced Stargazer Edition *a take on Ultima. Enjoyable dungeon crawler.
Val D'Isere Skiing and Snowboarding *best port
Wolfenstein 3d *best port
World Tour Racing *serious frame rate issue, but the emulator fixes it. It was released as an aftermarket title and possibly not optimized yet.
Zero 5 *another aftermarket title, needs 50hz and rapid fire. A proper hardcore gamer game. Its possible and tough, and great graphics.

Theres a bunch more to be enjoyed and gets something like a dozen homebrew exploits still a year. However I would only recommend it only to people who get into the elements or are collectors, to have real hardware though. Especially the CD addon those prices are nuts.

>>11899884
it would be considered a 6/10 doom clone on any other system. it's only notable for being one of the handful of Jaguar games that isn't totally broken or certified kusoge.

>>11899887
>>11899895
unfortunately Jaguar homebrew is like 99% ports of stuff from other systems, mostly arcade. More just curiosity/proof of concept rather than a serious attempt to make use of the system's hardware to do something new.

>>11900169

Nah theres some really good homebrew. People remaster ST titles and other things, and full polished titles.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/jaguar-i-now-131776444

Some guy is doing a virtua cop clone on the jaguar. You can mod a sega master system light gun to work on it too. 3D is barely tried, but has come up.

>>11900131
One you didn't mention is "Evolution: Dino Dudes". It's a port of "The Humans" on Amiga and in my humble opinion, the best port. The graphics are slightly improved, the soundtrack sounds great and the camera view is a bit "zoomed out", so that you see a larger portion of the game screen. Also, the fact that the Jag controller has a numpad really works well in this game, you use it to select which "dude" you're controlling, it really works out.

>>11899976
It is a really great box. Easily top 5 of boxes of all time.

>>11900185
so like I said, ports.

>>11900252
I remember seeing that box on clearance at KB Toys and thinking the logo was neat. First and last time I ever thought about the Jaguar before the avgn video though.

>>11899526 (OP)
>What was the best game for this badboy?
From what I have seen everybody ranting about, Tempest. Which is pretty sad, that's like saying the best game on the N64 was Space Invaders. Except in the case of the Jaguar that's probably true.

>And why did it fail?
High Price for a system that was barely beyond SNES level in 1993
Stupid "extreeeeeme" advertising campaign that mostly relied on "64 is a bigger number than 16 so it must be better!"
Not only was it not actually 64 bit, but the hardware was a total mess to program for that made the Sega Saturn look sane
Hardware was also full of bugs developers had to code around
Because of the above, it had almost no games made for it
It came out in 1993 yet the controller had a fucking numberpad in it like this was the 1970s/second generation of consoles
Atari basically did nothing but make mistakes, they only got lucky with the 2600 by being first and even during it's lifespan kept making mistakes (Crash of 83 anyone?)
In their infinite wisdom that makes the 32X look like a good idea they decided to release an expensive CD add-on for this system that was not selling that had even less games made for it and tended to break if you looked at it funny
IT LOOKED LIKE A FUCKING TOILET WITH THE CD ADDON!
Everyone knew the PS1, Saturn, and N64 were on the way, the PS1 and Saturn even released the next year
Honestly, because of everything it did and did not do, it did not get or do a single thing right and made just about every mistake possible

>Is there anything that makes it worth owning (or even emulating) in 2025?
Eh, there's some decent games, though the number of exclusives worth playing can be counted on one hand, and none of them are hidden gems. I see no reason not to emulate since it's not like that will cost you money to do, but there isn't much worth in buying one unless you are a collector and already have most of the other major retro systems from that era.

>>11900220
I had this on DOS, recently was trying random Jaguar games and was surprised to hear that familiar music as soon as the game booted up before even the logo had appeared on screen yet.

That being said, I disagree that it's the best version, it's missing the cutscenes that were in the DOS version, and the between levels music IMO was much better in the DOS version.

>>11900321
>it's missing the cutscenes that were in the DOS version

Yea you got me there, it's true. I also played the Mega Drive version, which does have the cutscenes, but weirdly has you "choose" if you want to hear music or sound effects ... It can't play both at the same time.

>>11900313
>Everyone knew the PS1... were on the way
Why would you get hyped for a gaming console made by a household electronics company? Panasonic has already released their 3DO player and look how that thing is selling.

>>11899820
Tempest 3000 was made for the Nuon, a whole DVD player system that was neither PS or N64.

>>11900340
Isn't the answer obvious? Because it reads CD, and because of the low price.

>>11900343
3DO also reads CDs, yet nobody cares about that thing. The price did not get announced until May 1995.

>>11900347
3DO was kind of a banger system at the time, though, unlike the Jag

>>11900329
>but weirdly has you "choose" if you want to hear music or sound effects ... It can't play both at the same time.
That is indeed weird. I know some really old DOS games that relied on the PC speaker or pre-IBM PC games such as on the Commodore64 made you choose options like that, but by the Genesis you definitely should have been able to do both, especially since the DOS version could.

>>11900340
Nintendo was a toy company that started out as a playing card company, and did everything in between including owning a baseball team and love hotels. Why would anyone have gotten hyped for the NES?

Atari, a videogame company, was also a total joke by that point. Your argument of "they made electronics, therefore nobody should trust them with a game system" is idiotic, what do you think game systems are made out of? It's not playing cards.

>>11900347
>>11900350
3DO was a legitimate system, just not good enough compared to cheaper, better systems that came out shortly after. No one cares about it today because all the good games, of which it had many, are now multiplatform.

>>11899849
There's a decent port of Tempest 2000 for Saturn. Apparently Saturn was supposed to get an enhanced Tempest X version akin to PlayStation, but they scaled it back to being a straight port. There was an announcement for Tempest X for Saturn on Interplay's 1996 website.
http://web.archive.org/web/19961220013401/http://www.interplay.com:80/press/temppr.html

>>11900321
They also cut out segues in Dragon, I bet it was QA from Atari saying they didnt like it in games, prob cause theyre often skipped on a replay.

>>11900165
>it would be considered a 6/10 doom clone

AVP is excellent. Finish that with mapping routes and without cheats, you got a serious game to play. Its survival horror not the arcade frenzy shooter the Doom is. A proper good title.

>one of the handful of Jaguar games that isn't totally broken.

Its like they totally gave up finishing Hoverstike. Even with the CD version, which fixes a lot of the issues and improves graphics, its still only playable with rapid fire, and theres literally enemies and the final boss that just plonk ass in the later missions. The hell. With a few bits of polish it would still be a pretty average game but not broken. Other than that, supercross 3d and fight for life were shovelware titles. Feels like Atari was shutting up shop and wanted to put something else on the shelf that they could for the same cost. Fight for life actually has a full source code and assets available, with a few tweaks it would go from dreadful to probably not bad.

>>11900368
Original jaguar version pops in color and feels the best. Another game with full source code available.. Add 100 more levels and minimalise the HUD. TEMPEST 2000+

>>11900359
The point is that by 1993 Nintendo, Sega and even Atari had reputation in gaming consoles business and were respected brands in that area. Meanwhile you had Panasonic and Goldstar selling 3DO, Philips/Magnavox trying to spin CD-i as a gaming console, Commodore releasing CDTV which was totally not an Amiga 500 with a disc drive. NEC, a giant in 1980s electronics couldn't turn TurboGrafx-16 into a household name with must own games. All of those things played CDs, by the way. It was totally in line to be skeptical of yet another outsider electronics company trying to get into a rejuvenated gaming business of early 1990s, putting brand recognition forward instead of building a worthwhile game library. What Sony did actually pull out with PlayStation was a minor miracle, it wasn't a given that they'd make it right out the gate and both of their major competitors would make major mistakes with next gen hardware.

>>11900385
>The point is that by 1993 Nintendo, Sega and even Atari had reputation in gaming consoles business
But why would anyone have been hyped in the early 80s with the NES? And no, Atari's reputation was dogshit by then.

>Meanwhile you had Panasonic and Goldstar selling 3DO, Philips/Magnavox trying to spin CD-i as a gaming console
We also had Sega selling the 32X. You seem to be under the misconception that because there were also bad gaming systems in history made by an electronics company that nobody should trust future ones. We have had bad game systems by gaming companies in history too. Your argument that nobody would have been hyped for the PSX because Sony was an electronics company is very misguided. Just one look at gaming magazines at the time shows you that nobody gave two shits that Sony was an electronics company and were excited, if anything, it makes a hell of a lot more sense for an electronics company to make a game console. Don't forget that the sound chip in the SNES was made by Sony, and Sony were originally going to make a CD add-on to the SNES. You're acting as if Maytag announced a game console.

You're also ignoring that the 3DO had a launch price of $699.99 and the CD-I $799.99... IN EARLY 90s MONEY!

Meanwhile for Sony, their price announcement was a historical mic drop moment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExaAYIKsDBI

>>11900401
>But why would anyone have been hyped in the early 80s with the NES?
Nobody was hyped for NES when they did 1985 US test launch in New York and New Jersey. Nintendo of America gradually pushed their product to toy stores across North America and by 1987-88 NES turned into a hot item wanted for millions of kids.
Hype wasn't a driving factor for sales in an era before simultaneous nation wide product launches.

>>11899541
>while 90% of games were developed by European computer programmers.

Oh and the games show

>>11900409
The gradual thing is more because retailers were very unwilling to stock consoles again after the crash of 83 thinking videogames were just a fad that was over.

Trevor McFur in the Crescent Galaxy was a misfire. Its too non typical of a shooter.. you cant shoot everything. Its just, the lack of music and some kind of polish makes it feel so broken. But actually its not bad, if you give it a chance. Meh.

>>11900439
As a kid I always thought it was some kind of Space Adventure game, judging by the screenshot on the back of the box. Sort of like Day of the Tentacle or something. I was so disappointed when I found out (as an adult) it's just a very generic side-scrolling shooter.

They also teased a "Tiny Toon Adventures" game on the back of that box, which looked interesting. That game never materialized, but there is footage of an early alpha build, you can find it online.

>>11900447
https://files.catbox.moe/k45hru.zip

it didnt make it to shelf but some parts of it did.

>>11900451
That's so cool about the internet. I was staring at that box as a kid, imagining what the game was like. Now I can just have a zip file downloaded in a flash. I'll check it out, but I don't expect anything remotely playable of course.

>>11900462
I had that moment with Dinosaur Planet. I remember reading previews and downloading screenshots and videos off of IGN (or was it GameTrailers?) about it, and then of course it was cancelled and turned into Starfox Adventures. But now it actually surfaced and I can myself play those same segments and cutscenes I saw decades ago on internet previews.

What else sucked a fat one. Checkered Flag, so botched. horrendous control and frame rate. Both of which are fixed now with the emulator, but still very clunky and the opponents are useless. Another game with full source code available, possible to be rescued.

>>11900185
>link
woah so, this is, the power of the jaguar...

>>11899539
>why play old game
its still fun man. those games dont require a mouse.

>>11899526 (OP)
funnily enough, they had a better port of primal rage than the competition. 32X is faster but lacks tones of detail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKnR0b0KOYA

>>11899526 (OP)
>why did it fail?

Because Atari couldn't be bothered to actually make anything worthwhile for it themselves and so it wound up with one legitimately good exclusive (Tempest 2000) one that was kind of cool even if the gameplay wasn't stellar (AVP) and...that was it.

The fact that it had some really good ports of shit like Rayman and Doom was commendable. If you were a Jag owner I'm sure those were nice to have. But why would you buy a Jaguar to play Rayman and Doom when you could buy a playstation and get decent versions of both along with an infinitely better library in general?90% of the Jaguar's best games were on other consoles that had better libraries, more first *and*third-party support, and had less weird controllers. There was just no upside whatsoever to buying a Jag instead of anything else. So no one bought one.

Atari's only real chance was to come out of the gate scalding hot before the PS1 crashed the party and instead they came out of the gate with an extremely meh pack-in game and Trevor McFur as a launch title. What the fuck did they think was going to happen? Which of their launch titles did they think was going to ship units?

>>11900510
A little bit of trivia, they considered packaging the console together with "Aliens VS Predator", but opted instead to include "Cybermorph" for some reason.

>>11900027
It still looks like a toilet to me, even without the cd addon. Like it's some toilet you see in some late 80s/90s scifi action film, and it vaporizes waste product

>>11900513
They did that in japan. It wasnt ready for the main launch.

>>11900510
They had 5 titles over the first 6 months. Surely they were smoking something. But theres some nice things on it.. bunch of old timers who didnt know what they were doing.

Another lesser known fact, they nearly made the first proper open world game, black ice white noise. All that can be seen are some leaked alpha copies, but has like 50 minutes of FMV videos on the disc. Its largely a ghost town and performs very well on hardware. For them to have their lights on for a little longer just to finish it, they could have really pissed in peoples pockets. Along with thea realm fighters, a high quality MK clone with actual MK actors. Also has a beta available.

>>11900541
That looks pretty cool. Shame the system doesn't even have released ambitious titles that could be interesting.

Aside from what >>11900513 said about it not being quite ready I also suspect they just weren't ballsy enough to have a pack-in game that was a violent FPS based on 2 R-rated horror franchises at a time when politicians were already getting their panties in a bunch over shit like Mortal Kombat and Night Trap.

And if they did chicken out it's a little cheesy but it makes sense. Pack-in games were always kid friendly and going from Sonic and Mario to facehuggers might have been a step too far for a company that wanted the broadest possible appeal. But what I still can't grok is how Cybermorph becomes the alternative.

Yeah, it was a 3D game and that was the hot shit at the time but to most people it looked and played like a slower, less fun version of Starfox and it got instantly and fatally mogged by the wipeout demos that helped to sell so many playstations. It wasn't even impressive when it came out and got blown out of the water soon after.

I must ask, again, how the fuck did they spend years developing this thing, go all-in on it financially, and not really have any idea what their big launch title was going to be? Every console available at the time came with an A-list pack in game. By a Nintendo you get Mario. Buy a Genesis you get Sonic. Hell, even the TG16 gave you Bonk. They realized they had to put their best foot forward from minute 1 to compete in a crowded market. And Atari just picked whichever random title was ready at the time and was like "yeah, good enough." Everything they did was wrong

Interview from May 1995 with one of the Jaguar hardware architects.

>>11900510
> he doesn't like Trevor McFur
normie

>>11899526 (OP)

These range from decent to great:

Battlemorph
Battlesphere Gold
Iron Soldier 1&2
Tempest 2000
AVP
Doom
Wolfenstein 3D
Rayman
Super Burnout
Power Drive Rally
Ruiner Pinball
Raiden
Worms
Skyhammer
Gravitic Mines
Jumping at Shadows

>>11900342
>be one of the few companies that managed to make a respectable Jaguar game
>some even call it the best Jaguar game
>make no money anyway because the Jag had an install base of like 300 people
>still, someone was impressed enough to fund a sequel
>on the nuon
>with a user base of zero people

>>11900849

Don't mislead anyone new to this platform. Trevor McFur is irredeemable dog logs

>>11900342
it's funny how all the tech companies were absolutely convinced the future was home media and vidya was a fad, only for the very concept of "owning" to be completely destroyed these days.
I'm looking at you xbox.

Club Drive is a misunderstood game. It got ravaged in reviews back in its day for being a poor racing game, while in reality it is 3D environment sandbox where you can just goof around.

>>11900905

I compare it favorably to Toy Commander, or fucking around in Pilotwings. But car

>>11900897
>Trevor McFur is irredeemable dog logs
Pretty sure Trevor is a jaguar

>>11900971

>>11900750
I'll always stand by Cybermorph as the pack-in, while it wasn't the best game, it was innovative in 1993 to have a 3D game where you roam freely around. Also, having a big face appear on-screen and speak words to you was seen new and exciting, that's why Skylar is so, well, in-your-face.
Furthermore, It was a brand new franchise, it wasn't derived from movies or other stuff. Cybermorph pack-in is what (for better or worse) established the Jaguar a "sci fi shooter" console and probably why we got so many games like it (Trevor McFur, Protector, Defender, Hover Strike, Battlesphere, Iron Soldier etc etc.)

>>11901054
I actually really enjoyed this. But it needs rapid fire, and to be able to save between worlds. not 9 worlds at a time, thats too baller..emulator lets you do both. It has good arcade snap to it and the draw distance isnt too bad most of the time. Good gameplay with a variety of missions revolving around getting pods. It got good reviews when it came out too, and the green bald woman giving you shit is pro gamer if you ever make a mistake. She is helpful too, when pods are in danger, how many you got left.. Battlemorph is the sequel which is the more strategic proper fleshed out version of it. They learnt a lot more with Battlemorph, tonnes more detail and draw distance. I wouldnt say cybermorph is a classic, but with rapid fire and save states its very solid. Treat it like that with no save states in-mission and you'll have a hearty challenge.

>>11899526 (OP)
Heres some highlights of homebrew.

Asteroite
Astrostorm
Atomic
Beebris
Biopede
Do The Same
Downfall
Escape 2042: The Truth Defenders
Fallen Angels
Full Circle: Rocketeer
Gorf
Gravitic Mines
Impulse X
Jagmania
Jumping At Shadows
Kings of Edom
Kobayashi Maru
Last Strike
Maze
OSMOZYS
Painter
Rebooteroids
Rocketeer Rebounced
Superfly DX
Tube
Wormhole 2000
Xenowings
Yopaz Icestar

Some of these are remakes of old classics, gorf is a perfect port from the arcade, and some are enhanced ST ports so much so its its own release.

Theres like half a dozen high profile games in the works,
https://www.patreon.com/posts/alpha-v0-2-2-w-134669572
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCbmRe6r3hc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMdGcPCohCc

Someone actually got off their arse and is making a mortal kombat port for the jaguar. Single handedly.. Pretty damn slick.

I love the Jaguar. It's so bad.

>JA-GYOO-UH

>>11901270
I find it really satisfying. Next best for me is NEOGEO where they ripped out an arcade part and slammed it into a plastic box. Based.

>>11899526 (OP)
>And why did it fail?
Weak library and weak marketing. Lots of potential power, but was obnoxious to develop for, so most games aren't appreciably different from the SNES and Genesis games it was supposed to be so much more powerful than, let alone even the TurboGrafx-16, so it really struggled to live up to its attempted hype.

>>11899528
Chaingun barrels don't spin though which is unforgivable.

>>11899539
JaguarStein uses one of the cut down level sets, so each episode is only 5 maps long, for 30 total, so you get more frequent boss fights, in addition to the Flamethrower, Rocket Launcher, and Ammo Backpack.

>>11899825
They just sold on the injection molds. Jags are uncommon because they flopped and they have subpar build quality (the CD addon especially is infamous for breaking down).

>>11899526 (OP)
I got a bunch of random games a while ago, Zool kind of looks worse than the aga version and weird camera, Doom ran in low rez but decent enough. Raiden has a weird border and is 30 fps, Dino Dudes just not much energy. Wolf 3D, weird view. Cyber Morph couldn't get into. Trevor McFur, really good graphics and pretty fun. Tempest was great.

Bubsy was the game that I liked, it has something like pc vga graphics, smooth animation and good music. Its really hard but just deal with it.

>>11900368
I tried in on Saturn and it actually runs at 60 fps while Jag is around 25 to 30. The pixel shatter effects are different but good enough. It kind of sucks playing with controller, when I first played it on Jag it seemed fine. At least on Jag you can make the game use a spinner. Pretty impressed, I was expecting jank 20 fps junk like Virtua Racing since I thought it would be a rushed port.

>>11899539
The turning is weird in wolf on jag, its like your standing the edge of a rotating disc.

>>11899849
PC version was highly rated but the main thing is its 256 colour so missing a lot of shades in areas

>>11900340
The 3DO was stupidly overpriced on launch, the PSX wasn't.

>>11901270
Same
It has a ton of exclusives despite its limited library
I also like how BigPEmu started as an emulator designed for Atari 50 and then the dev just released it for free for all to enjoy. The Atari community is pretty cool in a lot of ways

>>11900340
PS1 had obviously impressive looking games like Ridge Racer and Battle Arena Toshinden.

>>11900513
Atomic blunder.

>>11900750
Atari never really had a solid idea about what they were doing. The infamous crash was largely Atari's habit of gross overproduction finally starting to catch up to them, it's actually insane how bad their decision making was even back in the 80s and 70s.

>>11901767
Actually the jag console is built like a tank, and everything can be replaced besides the custom tom and jerry chips. In the eventual retro game machine apocalypse I bet the jaguar will survive the longest. It was built by IBM and they obviously don’t fuck around. The CD unit however is no good, where the hell is the quality assurance. However the pickups are easily found and it’s apparently 2 wires to replace.

>>11900897
I'll have to remember that expression for the future.

>Atari Jaguar
>Amiga CD32
Which one did it worse?

>>11901874
CD32 was definitely way worse, because it was far more pointless, had an atrocious library, and Commodore went bankrupt before they could get it onto the American market, because they got a court injuction over unpaid debts.

>>11899526 (OP)
>And why did it fail?
Poor launch lineup, hard to develop for and the biggest mistake Atari committed with the Jaguar was abandoning the European market in favor of the American one.

>why did it fail
Tough one. Have you ever played, or even seen, a Jaguar game?

>>11901874
Jaguar had Doom.
CD32 had Gloom.

jaguar is much more interesting to me than the 3do

>>11901897
Lol. If we're going by library alone the CD32 smokes the Jaguar into oblivion and that's not even counting the homebrew

>>11901897
I rather get a CD32. There are actually some fun games on it and CD versions of good Amiga scrollers on it, plus it can be used as an actual Amiga.

>>11901863
What exactly is wrong with the CD unit that makes it break so easily? Is it a shitty laser or something on the board?

>>11902002
I don’t know what the story is exactly, I’m guessing it uses audio data with no error correction, at 2x. Burns out hard?

>>11901981
If you count games published for Amiga computers, but playing them on a CD32 is misery.

>>11902019
How so?
CD32 uses the same joystick ports as Amiga so you can plug in your trusty CompoPro too.

>>11902019
CD32 is often regarded as the ultimate all in one Amiga to get if you can obtain one.

>>11902002
Really, REALLY shitty build quality.
One of the common reasons the Jaguar CD is dead or dies if you first try a NIB one is because the lid often tends to clamp down on the disc so it can't spin, which strips the gears on the motor.
For these examples, you'd probably need to replace the gear which some poor soul unwittingly destroyed, and you'd then need to relieve material on the lid with something like a dremel so that it doesn't happen again.

There's other problems too, but that one is burned into my fucking brain for how it so perfectly encapsulates the overall feel of the Jaguar CD, an aggressive lack of effort and competence.

>>11902053
The game drive will eventually be fully decked out, making these majorly fit for expos. As is it’s like 90% jagcd compatible.

While they were fragile and you had to handle with care, it made it really easy to load homebrew on in the early days of its public domain days. You could just burn the game to a disc and chuck it in, with minimal wear to load the rom into ram or what have you and thats it. It again feels like shovelware, but they were picking up development on their flagship CD title like black ice white noise around its release. Last 3 betas or so were 9/20/95 9/27/95 10/5/95, at least the ones that leaked, with 10/5/95 definitely being the last one made. With the CD attachment being released on 9/21/95. So you could tell they were being serious. Took them 2 hot weeks to realize it wasnt going to happen, after pumping in something like a million bucks into it for the shoestring operation that they had. Now theyre worth something stupid because out of 20,000 units sold I think half of them went back to Atari. Strictly for collectors.. the game drive and the emulator will get you there otherwise.

Heres a segment of cinepak off one of the beta discs.. extracted from one of the discs. its 15fps 240x180 natively, it could handle 24fps 320x240.

>>11900439
>we have Starfox at home

>>11903769
>Literally just a Lion's face copy-pasted onto a general's torso

I suppose it was an impressive shoop in the early 90's. Also I don't know anything about military awards, but I'm sure that if you looked closely on the stripes on his chest you can probably figure out exactly who that general is.

>>11903769
soul as fuck

>>11899541
Pretty sure the system development was outsourced to a British company. Atari just bought the rights to the console and slapped a US flag on the box.

>>11903856
The American way. Normally it’s Mexico.

>>11903769
>General Patent

>>11899526 (OP)
>best game
Iron Soldier. Off the top of my head. Mutant Penguins is a blast too. I'm sure as I see more titles as I go through the thread, they'll light up in my head too.

>why did it fail
Atari still carried their stigma from the industry crash. Devs were lazy and used the 68k to do all the work.

>worth owning
I enjoyed the games I played on it. But seeing the prices on eBay, I'd say emulate … and I'm glad I got mine when I did. Hope it still works since I haven't brought it out in literal decades.

Other thoughts:
Never had issue with the controller. I'm sure most people who lose their shit over it are zoomers looking at it with no context of the era.
Kinda wished I ordered the Iron Soldier 2 cartridge (but $80 was a bit much at the time so decisions were made.)
I don't know the eventual release history, but I know put in my email somewhere for updates on BattleSphere and never heard anything.
AvP. meh ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cybermorph. Pretty fun.

>>11899557
>pinball game that I can't remember the name of, but it was fun in small doses.
Probably Ruiner Pinball. There was also Pinball Dreams, but you probably would've noted it contained multiple tables.

>shitty racing game I can't remember the name of
Either Club Drive, which was genuinely shitty on the surface. But kind of fun to putter around in since you had open worlds and no time limit.
Or Checkered Flag. Honestly not a bad game, but ruined by the controls. I can appreciate what they were trying to do, but should've included a more conventinal control option. Call that "arcade" controls, and the one they went with as "pro/expert."

>>11900513
Launch titles were Cybermorph, Dino Dudes, Raiden, and Trevor McFur.

Dino Dudes and Raiden were on a bunch of systems already, and the Jaguar port probably didn't look much better. Trevor McFur could've been a viable, if forgettable pack-in. But Cybermorph was 3D.

If Tempest 2000 wasn't a few months away, it would've been the perfect choice. Familiar title for the boomers. Wild graphics for the uncultured youth. No obvious violence for the parents. And great game overall.

>>11904241
Dino dudes and raiden are the best ports, on any system however.

>>11904241
I think that packaging a violent game like AvP could have worked out. It would have been bold. Just look at the controversy around Mortal Kombat and how Sega profited off of that. That being said, it wasn't finished yet, of course.

>>11904274
I do agree, as I've said in this post: >>11900220
As regards Dino Dudes, they did go ahead and improve the graphics, but as Anon mentioned: >>11900321 They removed the (very soulful) cutscenes in between the levels for some reason ... That can't possibly have been anything other than laziness, because the cutscenes are on the SNES and Mega Drive versions of the game.

>>11904137
Club Drive is a kids game. It got grilled for its lack of depth.. it’s a kids game. Nothing incredible, but does what it set out to do.

>>11901858
I always thought the crash was because anyone and everyone was shoveling out shitty games. Atari's own titles were respectable overall, if not as pretty as Activision & Imagic.

The 2600 was the most recognizable system, and what everyone was authoring for. So Atari took the heat for the crash. And that's before we even bring up ET.

If Atari is at any fault, it's after they lost their case against Activision, realizing people still needed to buy a 2600 to play all these games, but not trying to impose any kind of quality controls. But it was new territory with no obvious precedent to look to.

>>11899557
>The controller is very uncomfortable.

I think the original design is a little bit too big, but in general people who complain about the controller have never used it. It isn't bad at all, but what they did with the pro controller was way better. They slimmed it down and remapped 5 buttons off the number pad to make shoulder buttons and put in more face buttons.. as in a rip off of the SEGA genesis controller. This is actually one of my favorite controllers. If you play big sessions with this in general the big grip really is cosy on your hands. I got a custom dpad off ebay and improves it a whole lot too. Its also an endangered species of a controller.. there was a reproduction that is 1:1 of them, a few thousand though. Easily spotted as it doesnt have an Atari logo. I hope 8bitdo do a proper take on it, where it doesnt remap the buttons and well, literally 12 buttons for emulator macros.

There was a feud with SEGA and Atari, they ended up getting 90 million dollars out of a lawsuit and 5 games, but they never materialised. Maybe thats why they enabled a guy to make a Virtua Fighter clone and totally ripped off the controller. Just for the disrespect. If you look at the gross income fiscal-what have you, they lost 90 million dollars in operational costs over its lifetime. Which means they used SEGABUCKS as a gamble basically, and ended up breaking even.

https://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Blog:Legal_Brief:_Atari_vs._Sega

how tf im supposed to emulate this piece of shit?

>>11904434
It's a PC Engine Avenue Pad 3 + numeric keypad.
Figure it out.

Did Playstation have an infomercial?
No. Just creepy ads. Checkmate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAYKkC7ueWI

>>11904434
Sega Genesis controller..
Theres a rapid fire script for roms in BigPEmu, 'turbo_joy'. A lot of games benefit from it. Apparently it wasnt known out of the gate how to make rapid fire work for developers. Ha.

>>11904318
I lived through the crash, albeit as a very young guy, and I remember shovelware being kind of an issue but not a huge one. If you were buying games randomly just because you liked the cover art then your chances of getting a turd were higher than you would want them to be. But the vast majority of the big titles were still arcade ports and in theory if you bought frogger or breakout you knew what to expect. And licensed games like Superman or Raiders of the Lost Ark weren't always great but typically the really shady companies couldn't afford the licenses so they were unlikely to just be pure crap.

If you bought known properties and stuff that had good word of mouth it was usually a fairly safe bet. And that's where Atari really screwed up with the 1-2 punch of Pac-Man and E.T. Pac-Man sold like crazy because it was one of those games you could presume was a safe bet. It was fucking Pac-Man. The hottest arcade game at the time. The home port was a no-brainer. Except it wasn't very good. Similarly, E.T., being a huge license and a scalding hot commodity, *should* have got the AAA treatment and been a game you bought with confidence that it was mediocre at worst and instead they handed it off to one guy and gave him five minutes to make it and it turned out...weird.

Neither game was broken or buggy or unplayable but they were so obviously low effort. And these were games that were supposed to be no-brainer purchases. And that's when people started to check out. Shovelware could be ignored as background noise but once legit brand name titles were being shat out with minimal quality control it eroded the trust in everything. If they couldn't even bother to get Pac-Man right then what *would* they get right?

Late-stage Atari thought consumers were just mindless sheep who would buy anything with a recognizable name as long as it was technically functional. They needed a reality check and they got one

So yeah, to get more mileage out of this, check out scripting inside the bigpemu emulator. Theres a speed throttle for doom, and also check for 'Run Ahead' which will eliminate input lag where it counts, at the expense of a serious performance tax, so its good to have something faster than a 486.

Theres a script for cybermorph, set RISC to 0.5 to get the graphic enhancement and the speed accurate. Homebrew is often hardware only and kind of expensive I guess, but collectors are happy for it to be made and supported as much as possible.. like myself.

Heres some homebrew and stuff that might be harder to find.
https://files.catbox.moe/1rluuq.7z

>>11904476
Gotta love how they use the sound effects from Atari Pac-Man to represent old ass 16bit system.

Oh yeah, and have the rom file with a custom .bigpcfg filename for it to keep the custom settings if you dont read the manual.

>>11901301
the car is jag you erh
the cat is zhag hwar

>>11904549
the problem is "word of mouth" was difficult to come by when all you had to go on was a magazine (paid shills) or one of your classmates in your local area. buying games sight unseen was pretty normal back then.

>>11900342
great game, great dvd player

>>11904476
FUCK 32 and 16 bit systems.

>>11906675
Man's finger movements with controller are somewhat believable, but the woman obviously had never played a video game in her life.

>>11904274
>raiden
>best port
Found the delusional AtariAge boomer.

>>11907006
I guess better graphics sounds frame rate and increased difficulty means nothing.

https://youtu.be/wdNtNq7F7ls?t=1370&si=ucF0wZra2Ueup0R9

>>11906997
They both have the same movements, they're just randomly mashing the d-pad and face buttons. Same shit you've seen hundreds of times both animated and in live action when someone wants to act that they are playing a game, usually by an actor, director, or animator is a non-gamer. The times it doesn't happen are so uncommon that it tends to be notable.

Not to mention that they are both playing Doom, which AFAIK only the PC version back then had any sort of multiplayer (and that was over two PCs).

>>11906997
Yeah the girl looks like she's playing a rhythm game on easy with very deliberate button presses.

>>11907035
>AFAIK only the PC version back then had any sort of multiplayer

Actually id software built the code for the link up cable themselves for the jaguar, it was white paper stuff at the time. the lack of R&D and proper SDK definitely set this thing back from getting a shit tonne more titles because of it. It wasnt perfect it had some drop outs time to time but in general worked well. It took near the end of the consoles life for the code to be perfected with battlesphere. Speaking of DOOM, theyve been slowly perfecting a DOOM1/2/ALL version with 8 people multiplayer going on. Rife with expo value. The SNES version actually had online capabilities too.

>>11907021
That’s not Raiden. That’s a bizarre western insect headcanon version recreated from memory by someone who credit fed through the game once.

>>11907101
Its a bit zoomed in. Makes it more difficult. Otherwise its raiden with a facelift.

>>11904434
a lot of the numpad buttons did nothing in many games.

>>11907196
Its like half half but with a 6 button and shoulders it goes down to a handful. Thats the best about doom, like PC you can hot switch to any weapon at any point.

>>11899526 (OP)
not entirely sure why it failed but from the outside it looks kind of unappealing. the controller has alot of buttons. the ps1 was coming soon, people wanted disc based games. idk it sucked

>>11901759
>Chaingun barrels don't spin though which is unforgivable.

Am i missing something?

What else anon, for the lesser known corners of gaming. Atari also was going forward with VR and a modem, the first use of its kind, at least on a home console. It never materialised properly besides prototypes. However modem code can be found in Ultra Vortek with 911 being pressed at the start, and Missile Command has a VR option. Both have been tested to work quite well. Using the emulator you can use modern VR headsets, worth checking out. Also if you play Ultra Vortek its much more playable when you enable turbo (Hold 1,5,9). Its a mix of MK and SF dynamics. For some reason people refuse to accept gaming was done any better outside the main channels, in any kind of way. But the Jaguar surely did have some treats.

>>11907527
I might have been thinking of the 3DO version, which used the same graphics.

>>11907527
it doesn't take that many bullets to draw a swastika on the wall

>>11907527
>>11908929
I thought the 3DO version was the best port of Wolfenstein 3D. Did I gaslight myself?

>>11909123
Traditional wolfenstein, 3DO is most complete with better music and sounds over the original and total map set. Jaguar is the arcade version in HD with no bloat. Upto you to decide.

>>11906032
True but still, there was a sort of zeitgeist that formed around actual good games. Practically every 2600 owner in the world ended up with a copy of Pitfall, and not because it was hit in the arcades before it came to home consoles. Somehow, the word got out. Whereas shitty games would sucker in a few people and then die on the vine.

And again, that's why making name brand games such blatant "eh, good enough" cash grabs was such a blatant middle finger to consumers. If you bought something sight unseen you knew you were taking your chances and you were still butthurt when it turned out to be a pile of shit but there was still the idea that *you* made the wrong choice. But if you bought Pac-Man and it sucked that was on them, not you. Because you knew the game was good and they just gave you a shitty version of it. Shovelware was a real problem and eroded consumer confidence but what really killed people's faith in the industry was bad versions of shit that had no excuse to be bad, because it indicated that even when they should get it right they couldn't be bothered.

Like, if you go see some random low budget indie film made by a guy you've never heard of and it sucks, you just shrug it off as a bad movie. But if you go to see multiple huge budget summer blockbusters from supposedly legit directors and they all suck, too, you start questioning why you even go to the movies at all.

>>11909167
the Jaguar version has an automap. does the 3DO have one?

>>11910014
Yeah. And also it takes from the macintosh port hence the other weapons.

>>11904434
You got 17 buttons on the jaguar controller, but 3 are system buttons. * # and 0 are for a hard reset or sound options. More buttons are better in general though, especially with emulators for loading and saving states and rewind fast forward. This one looks good.

>>11911112
I'd immediately buy that shit for emulation if it also had the standard 2 analog sticks

>>11911114
This is getting closer.

>>11907220
>shoulders
Vanilla Jag Doom doesn't use the additional pro controller buttons such as the shoulders, but there are mods that add pro controller support

>>11911112
I had a fighting commander but a shoulder button eventually broke and I've read a lot people reporting the same experience
A shame because the controller is actually pretty good before it breaks

>>11911167
>>11911167
https://files.catbox.moe/emt6f2.ROM

This is some kind of mixed hacked rom, a hackjob on top of a hackjob. Its got weapon cycling buttons, and shoulder buttons for strafing. The script doesnt work for it in the emulator which throttles speed properly, I think you have to change an address and the checksum. I dont know I really prefer GZDoom, its for hardware obviously. Messing with speed settings will get it close.

>>11909167
Don't the Jag and 3DO versions use the 2nd and 3rd Encounter level sets? In fact, I think that the 3DO version starts you with the 3rd Encounter, and then you unlock The Original Encounter (the full original 60 levels) after beating it.

>>11911418
Havent actually played it but know its possible to get a map and its from the mac version.