Thread 11909793

Thoughts on Under Defeat? The greatest superplayer in the world claims it's forgotten innovation
It doesn't have mechanics because those are a crutch and has immense density with zero mechanical Darwinism
I think it's sad that people today want mechanics instead of learning how to shmups, the greatest genre of all time

>>11909793 (OP)
There's already a thread about this guy

I don't like that channel either, I think the guy is a fucking retard that can't play games
But do we need a billion threads about him

You could watch the youtube video you posted instead of asking us.

>>11909793 (OP)
It's a really cool game but I wouldn't call it very innovative. It's just Rayforce/Raystorm but with choppers and big guns instead of lock-on lasers.

I think there also already was an Irem shmup which had a similar chopper mechanic, where you can aim a bit to the sides.

It's cool that they chose Germany as the hero tho.

Raystorm/raxforce also already used this same perspective, and the way the bullets move up first when coming out of enemy barrels. The scoring system is also similar to Rayforce, where it's all about hitting a lot of enemies at once with the subweapon to get multipliers.

Mark often talks a lot of nonsense.

For me it was his DFK "review"
>i don't know how this works
>i'm unclear on this mechanic
>i'm not sure about this
>this is very esoteric to me
>i don't know about this
Really insightful stuff

stop spamming the board, Mork

>>11909798
>>11909823
At least he is playing the games and really seems to like the genre. There are also reviewers who don't even play shmups.
Mark may be a bit stupid but I think he has good intentions. He doesn't big scores, but a DDP 2all isn't bad.

>>11909825
His "good intentions" falter when his latest videos are genuinely utter nonsense, like saying "mechanics are a crutch" or getting hard filtered by games that aren't shmups like DMC 3 and Stellar Blade
Not to mention needing to download a save file for DMC lmao

BOGHOG SAVE ME

>>11909827
he is a Cavedrone so he acts extra-tough, but at least he addresses that videogames are going downhill and modern games lack arcade gameplay and scoring systems. I don't agree with everything he says but he also makes soe good points.

>>11909901
>videogames have fallen because genres other than shmups exist

>>11909793 (OP)
>shmup slop
into the trash it goes

>>11909915
Shmups aren't the only arcade games. There are also beat em ups, fighting games, railshooters, cabal shooters, racing games, etc

Fact is that videogames became easy and boring. The arcades had the advantage of actually getting paid for replayability, because you couldn't just buy the games and be done with it, you actually had to keep on putting coins into the machine. This resluted games which had a lot of replayability. Modern games don't have this anymore. They are just designed to make one playthrough and then there is nothing really to do anymore. There are so games with nice artstyles and mechanics, which are a complete waste, because they have zero replayability. And people are totally fine with it, because they are trained consumer cattle.

>>11909926
They haven't, this is massive lies from retarded arcadefags that get filtered by anything they can't memorise

>>11909798
Yes, the schizo has to continually seethe about him and arcade games.

Thing is though if you actually prove the arcadefag wrong by listing the tons of difficult modern games, you get a few stock responses
>those are the exception
>those are easy
>those aren't hard compared to le arcade
>the fact you think those are difficult proves my point
etc etc
The arcadefag is genuinely mindbroken

>>11909926
Arcade games were made to suck quarters out of children, they were the ultimate form of micro transactions.

>pay .25 to rent five minutes on our machine goy

>>11910051
>filtered by anything they can't memorise
Can you mention any hard games that don't require any memorization?

>>11910212
Not what I said you dishonest faggot
Shmups are nothing but memorisation while other hard games employ some memorisation it's also down to skill and execution
You might have memorised that Griffin attacks with that certain laser pattern but it's still up to you to dodge it

>>11909793 (OP)
Any chance you guys could buy up every copy of Under Defeat HD for Xbox 360 (complete with Dreamcast-labeled superplay DVD) and then destroy the copies so my graded wata copy can go from $250 to $2500? Thanks in advance.

>>11910245
There's a modicum of execution in shmups, the lowest there is and still be classified as a game, but it pales in comparison to other games where you need to perform multiple actions instead of dodge and shoot

>>11909926
>because they have zero replayability. And people are totally fine with it
There has probably never been a game with zero replayability. These types of games have always existed. You might as well write-off nearly every single RPG and adventure game since the 70s by this assessment. Even the best arcade games get to the point of just basic pattern memorization that becomes ingrained with every future play.

under de feet

>>11910231
>Shmups are nothing but memorisation while other hard games employ some memorisation it's also down to skill and execution
So you're saying that shmups don't require any skill and execution? Just to clarify.

>>11910261
No, they just require extremely little execution and high memorisation
This ties into each other, because you memorise the stages and patterns and can get in position beforehand, solving it

>move into position you know ahead of time
>fire
>the second the enemy spawns it's a non-threat due to memorisation
These games died out for their shallowness, not any cope about RPGs or whatever

>>11910303
In theory, however in practice, no.

The amount of dedication it takes executing routing, even if in theory it is "solved" is still a really high ceiling. If it wasn't, you could just watch a superplay a few times and execute it with minimal hassle. And yet we don't see a bunch a dudes with all the same high scores. Why, because it's fucking hard bro.

>>11910303
These games died out because they take effort to get good at. Even if we assume every shmup ever made had no element of randomization and that every encounter boiled down to "just know where to move and pre-fire bro...", that would still require immense amounts of time and dedication to memorize. Today's golems don't have the patience for this. It's the same reason RTS, arena shooters, hell, even platformers died out. Because golems today don't want to spend 20 hours replaying the same level before the nuances click -- they want instant gratification. They want to play a game where they get dropped on a big 3D map, get 3 kills to feel good about themselves, die, watch other people get 3 kills in spectator mode, sit in a post-game lobby talking shit, unlock some new weapon skin, buy another weapon skin, and then rinse and repeat. That's the industry today, barring mobile shit, the occasional pixelshit roguelite, 6th gen remaster or Sony moviegame. I know you're just a shitposting faggot but summing up the whole genre as "duuuude it's just shallow, you just like, moooove and shooot duuuuude" is such a faggy and retarded way to approach things. You don't like video games.

>>11910325
This is so fucking ridiculous it's insane and proves the shmupfag persecution complex

>>11909827
>Not to mention needing to download a save file for DMC lmao
So have I. I'm not playing the game on the easier difficulties again to unlock DMD.

>>11910428
brown post

>>11910269
Gonna need you to post your scores, big boy.

Low quality bait. OP is a fag

>>11910515
>>11910325
People love difficult games, look at the popularity of souls and doom eternal
Of course these don't fit your schizo narrative so you'll cope with either
>they're easy
>they're not as hard as le shmups
>just proving my point if you think they're hard

This stupid idiot went unwarranted into a Contra PS2 thread to spout this garbage. Only death can save the mind of a schizo broken beyond repair

>>11909827
>loved wanted dead
>shat on stellar blade
I agree with him in some things but he's a stupid weirdo.

>>11910584
>arcadefags shit up every single thread with their bullshit about memorisation asset flips being super hardcore
>finally had enough and start btfoing the fags left and right
>arcadefags now running cowardly saying "s-schizo unhinged zoomer"

>>11910080
KEK

>>11910614
Both are utter dogshit.

Without moderation, every shitty youtuber is doing his viral marketing here

>>11910669
>hard filtered by stellar kino
It's always amusing to see THE MOST HARDCORE BADASS SHMUP PLAYERS completely falter in any modern game

At least post Deathsmiles porn

>>11908189
This one also needs it

I think a new board rule should be that YouTube videos after a certain year shouldn't be posted.

Well after that schizo meltdown it's clear /vr/ isn't a place for discussion

>>11909882
'hog in the 'log

>>11911004
Its basically impossible to talk about shmups as a whole on 4chan. Its 95% spam and retards memeing about some discord shit.
Its been like this for years.

I think Under Defeat is a pretty good game (I'm talking about games in general, not shmups specifically).

As far as I know, the guys who made the game weren't very experienced in the genre (I could be wrong), and maybe that's why there's something about Under Defeat that seems fairer to me than games like Psikyo's. For example, I think the fourth and fifth levels of Under Defeat are quite difficult, but I still feel that there is something more "fair" about them when compared to the gameplay of Strikers 1945.

I like Strikers 1945, I think they're more fun to play than Under Defeat, but when Under Defeat gets really hard, it feels more satisfying, as if your skill is more rewarded or some shit.I don't know how to explain it in words, actually.

>>11909926
>And people are totally fine with it, because they are trained consumer cattle.
People are okay with this because those who consume modern games don't see them as being very different from a movie or a book.
That's why they say, "Why would I pay $40 for a 20-minute game?" when someone suggests they buy a shmup.
From their perspective, it really doesn't make sense. They want a longer experience where they feel like they've achieved something through the narrative that's been delivered to them. For them, a game needs to be structured like a book or a movie. It needs to convey some deeper message and have a satisfying ending.

>>11909926
>>11911767
Even though I pointed out how that was bullshit keep that circlejerk going, can't ever think about reality

>>11910761
Implying the complains are about it being too hard

>>11912769
Except we know he got hard filtered then turned the difficulty down then just claimed it was easy
He's pathetic and getting filtered by such a good game is sad
But anything for that clickbait

>>11910570
>souls and doom eternal
Nowhere near as difficult as your average shmup

>>11910570
Tell them to beat he first loop of Dodonpachi with a single quarter

>>11910761
>>11912791
Insecure gook detected.

>>11914416
>>11914681
>t-that doesn't count
>t-they aren't even hard
As predicted

>>11915076
But those anons are right. Strikers 1945 on "very easy" is harder to beat than Doom Eternal on Nightmare.
That doesn't mean the game is more complex, of course. Doom Eternal will require much more complex command execution, but even if you're not a god capable of handling 8 cooldowns at the same time and 15 shortcut keys perfectly, the game can still be surprisingly accessible (remember that Doom Eternal is a FPS but is perfectly playable on console controllers). Arcade games, not just shmups, have no concern whatsoever with accessibility. They are exponentially more difficult than Doom Eternal and Elden Ring, even the relatively simple games.
A good recent example was the release of Doom Dark Ages and Tetris Grandmaster 4. The former was completely dominated by players on the first day. Tetris Grandmaster 4 took a month and a half of grinding by the world's greatest autistic players before someone finally reached the "grand master" rank, which, by the way, isn't even the highest rank in the game.

>>11909798
>>11909795
Your forgetting where you are anons.
Chicken jockey proved what was exposed several years previously and that this place has paid threads/posts and replies by spammers to keep thread active

>>11915335
>t-they don't count!!!1111
Is this the best arcadefags really have?

>>11915578
Can you at least give a counterargument about what >>11915335 said?

>>11915648
Considering he said "uh doesn't count and they're easy also more people played it so uhhhhh something something le accessibility", it doesn't deserve a response
The level of dishonesty is unreal too
Of course if more people play a game then it'll have more people beating it faster and sooner than a niche title

>>11915764
The thing is, your examples aren't good ones. Doom Eternal and Elden Ring aren't at the level of difficulty that the average shmup will offer. They're much easier (to beat, I'm not talking about gameplay complexity).
You need to start venturing into the realm of autism, online competition, speedrunning, romhacks, etc., to encounter the same level of difficulty you find in shmups.
Most players don't really like that. And I would say, rightly so, by the way. Shmups and arcade games in general are really hard because they were made to be experienced differently from your average game. They are short, fast but brutal games that you play by putting coins in during your lunch break. This type of experience doesn't fit well with what consumers want today, even those who want challenges.

>>11915764
And you think deflecting their arguments is a good refutation?

>>11909827
>Not to mention needing to download a save file for DMC lmao

You just exposed you are a moron who can't follow a conversation more than one point deep.

>"DMC's fake progression sucks and if you play the game on a console you haven't played it on yet, you have to download a save file unless you want to waste hours playing the lower difficulties first"
>HURR HE HAD TO DOWNLOAD A SAVE FILE BECAUSE HE COULDN'T BEAT THE GAME ON THE LOWER DIFFICULTIES LOL HURR DURR!!!!

>>11910621
>">finally had enough and start btfoing the fags left and right "
Holy christ lmfao this board really is just 22 year old asmongold fans from Europe

>>11909793 (OP)
Buy an ad, faggot.

>>11916565
You seem upset.