Thread 11911797

Why are development cycles so much longer now?

>>11911797 (OP)
it's even worse when you realize Ocarina of Time was delayed after Banjo-Kazooie released and was threatening to show up Zelda in terms of polish

>>11911797 (OP)
You realize you're making a question involving current games and therefore it's NOT RETRO, right?

Another bot thread asking stupid questions that anybody with an IQ over 70 can solve. Fuck you and die.

>>11911813
My question is about retro video games having short dev cycles, retardkun

>>11911831
You're asking why development cycles are longer now, that means games in 2025.

Because programmers are worse across the board, we have no constraints and people keep pushing high rez polygonal graphics.

Indie Games still exist with these development cycles, even from solo developers

>>11911797 (OP)
>>11911813

How about a game that was so delayed that it actually spanned the retro/not retro timeline?

In terms of the wider question, it depends. Technically a game like Deus Ex was developed in 2 years, but Warren Spector had been kicking the ideas around and developing story and design concepts etc. for 5 before that.

The main answer of course is complexity - people want much more polished looking graphics and stories than they used to in the mid 90s, all of which is man hours, though some Indie games beat that stereotype - particularly if they use something like Unity.

>>11911797 (OP)
>now
Not retro

>>11911797 (OP)
The more technologically advanced the game, the more resources the development takes. Old games were pretty much like indie or mobile games—short, quick to develop, need few assets, little content. Often it's not too hard to recreate them on your own—see RPG Maker.
Modern games are expected to have huge worlds with detailed 3D models, animations and hours of content. This needs drastically more resources—people, money, time.
Needless to say, you can't shit out another GTAV every year. So the industry has adjusted to produce fewer games, milked for as long as possible.

>>11911837
perspective of retro games being short, retardkun

>>11911876
If you wanted to talk about older development cycles then why didn't you phrase the thread:
>Why were developmental cycles so short back then?

>>11911867
It’s also just a retarded question.

>>11911797 (OP)
Well first off, you're pretending as if they spent all those years inbetween titles actively working on them. They weren't. Between DKC3 and DK64, Rare produced Goldeneye and Banjo Kazooie.

>>11911902
same difference, why are you being so autistic

Games then were simple, they required a programmer, artist, and sometimes a music guy and that's it. Fast forward a few years, they're more complex, require multiple programmers, artists (including 3d modelers), a writer or two, musician, voice cast, and a director. Modern expectations require more staff and time, simple as.

>>11911919
You actually think inbetween is one word and not two words just because they're frequently used together?

Not retro
Kill yourself, tonite.

>>11911927
It isn't because the focus is different.

>OP phrases question slightly wrong
>Half the thread moans and complains instead of engaging in the discussion

>>11911972
>passive agressive complain while moaning
(you) are a nasty whore, OP.

>>11911797 (OP)
>now

Not retro >>>/v/

>>11911993
Not OP, but fair enough. This thread is not salvagable

You people make discussing retro games impossible, not even /v/ is this fuckered

>>11912130
nuh-uh, we're very intellectual here. We know how to make our own opinions! Don't you know not just anybody can do that?

>>11911797 (OP)
/v/ is down the hall to the left, and please don't come back

Does nobody else realize OP is trying to be ironic by cherry picking games that were released long after their series' previous installments?

>>11911797 (OP)
>texture then
a shitty small jpeg ripped from a cd
>texture now
high resolution multi layered photograph displaying roughness, wetness, uneven surface, etc.

>>11912161
slam your head into the wall as I pass you by

>>11911797 (OP)
Fixed, you wanker.

>>11912265
topic is still the same question, wanker
it's like you autists need a pop up picture book

>>11911797 (OP)
none of these games were made by the same dev teams.

>>11912234
Shame that effort doesn't translate into better games. MGS1 is better than MGS5 kek

>>11911797 (OP)
This picture is disingenuous because it was two different teams at Rare working on DKC3 and DK64 at the same time.

I don’t care enough to do a deep dive, but that’s probably true for some of these other games as well.

>>11912385
The robot can explain it, because I can’t be arsed to type it out

>>11912392
overlap in dev teams, you all became really gay for trying to derail my thread with pedantry

>>11911929
There's no way programming Crash Bandicoot in assembly and having to hack the official SDK to free memory was easier than the asset store copy paste slop running at 10 fps we have nowadays.

>>11912423
It’s not being pedantic, it’s the same reason there’s a new Call of Duty every year. There’s different teams working on each installment. They were laying the groundwork for DK64 before DKC 3 (published in November 1996, extremely late for a SNES game) was even published.

>>11911813
>making a question
Please redeem some English lessons.

>>11912279
Cope, you hobknocker.

>>11911940
Who fucking cares you fucking faggot ass dork?

>>11911797 (OP)
Modern games are bigger and get shit on more for reusing assets. They put out 6 mega man games on nes using a lot of the same sprites between characters and standard enemies.

>>11911863
And it's now been just as long since that game released as it took to make.

>>11911797 (OP)
>question that op already knows but decides to make a thread on it anyway

>>11912369
lol sure normalfag

Too much time spent in grafixx

>>11911797 (OP)
People will say that games are more complex and whatever, but I think there's also a human and social factor. Apparently, our society has lost the ability to make games quickly and efficiently, don't ask me why.
A good example was the recent development of the game "Wrath: Aeon of Ruin", made on the Quake 1 engine. In the time it took the team to make Wrath, ID Software in the past went from Wolf 3D to fucking Quake 2, which included inventing all the technology for all those games.

>>11911813
We're paid per-engagement, Anon. We don't care as long as we get the clicks. Even "Fuck You" replies like yours are acceptable to the boss.

I always wonder why it's so easy to get replies. This wouldn't work if you weren't losers.

>>11911806
Easily for the best. The leaks showed the early versions of Zelda were extremely bloated. Off the top of my head:
>Hyrule Field is 3-4x the size with nothing added
>Great Deku tree was entirely different and consisted of climbing 100s of ledges
>Fire temple had gigantic catwalks that serve no purpose and large empty areas
>The poop tunnel maze

>>11916931
Is there a place w screen shots I can see and read all this? I’m at the shadow temple on my current run through but I’d love to see this shit especially w the game fresh in my head.

Side note I truly wish they had added an extra dungeon so you could finally obtain the triforce. I love that screen shot that created all those myths and false challenges to obtain it in game because of that one pic.

>>11912234
I recognise the character on the left, I don't recognise the character on the right.

>>11911797 (OP)
You'd think Zelda 64 really took THAT much to being developed?

The early videos of it were just either tech demos with debug levels that maybe took half a year to out between fragmented sections of were just SGI FMVs

>>11916958
I feel bad for you, living under Iraq these days...

>>11916940
https://tcrf.net/Proto:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Ocarina_of_Time/Late_1997_Overdump
https://www.youtube.com/@z64me/videos scroll down

>I’m at the shadow temple on my current run through but I’d love to see this shit especially w the game fresh in my head.
Biggest thing I remember about the shadow temple is the fire temple's original theme got cut and replaced with essentially a remix of the shadow temple's theme, which kinda undermines the shadow temple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZGnJF1R0WU

>>11916931
I could see it being cool due to the scale of it all though. BotW is effortlessly cool due to size and scope of the geography

>>11916940
Shadow temple was the first dungeon they made, and it really shows. Very rudimentary design

>>11916931
Honestly Hyrule Field's massive downsizing is a blessing and a curse. On one hand it's a lot more concise to get through and you're really only wasting your time pre-warps, while Epona makes it a minute trek in general. On the other hand, there's literally nothing there but some secret holes, the Postman, and some Poe fights, and it's borderline pointless to exist in the state it came out in. If we had the original field and there were small spaces and huts strewn about, people to get side quests from, things to discover besides holes and Poes, I think it would've been quite ahead of its time, but that's way too much to expect for a game that had to chop so much out to begin with.

>>11911797 (OP)
FFVII and FFX being 4 years apart is still unbelievable to me.

>>11912234
Not worth waiting 8+ years for

>>11912234
This.
People will bitch about how gameplay or writing should be better. Too bad! Every single time a new game comes out all people is say it looks like PS1 and demand more pores on more asses, more rays and more details their machine can't handle. Most of dev time now is dealing with cinematics and graphics because faggots demanded it to be so. Tired of people whining about AAA games when its exactly what they demanded it to be and fed it money to continue to be.

>>11912410
If only he were right about the shakeout...

Anyway, if you read old game dev interviews, they start complaining about how development costs are so high and development time is too long starting around the mid-90s and getting louder every year, but things keep expanding. Every single new technology that's supposed to make games easier to make just raises the bar so now instead of simple, cheap graphics and a fun game you can beat in a couple hours you have hyper-detailed textures with dynamic lighting and a boring slog of a game you beat in 100 hours because that's what sells. Want small games? Pay more than five bucks for them at the Steam sale, asshole. This is what you wanted.

>>11912234
sovl / souless

>>11917408
I’m about to run through it in an hour or so, I do remember it not being near as difficult as water or fire temple.

>>11917172
Thanks for the links. I’ll definitely check it out, love seeing this stuff and how it ended up changing in the end. Vanilla wow’s early screenshots and gameplay were quite different from the end product but I loved seeing how it went from a to b to z.

>>11919092
Actually I think I have to go back as kid link and do the dungeon under the well first for the lense of truth but that shouldn’t take to long.

>>11917172
I’m on the gold cart so I have the og fire temple theme in my game. It’s funny, it’s one of my favorite dungeon music, even tho I’m a hardcore Christian. It’s not creepy or disturbing but it just really fits the fire temple idk why. Some things just go together like peanut butter and jelly. Fun fact, I’ve never heard the new fire temples theme, ever. I’ve never not played OoT on a gold cart and I’ve never looked up the musical changes.

>>11912431
The difficulty in making games is easier but it takes longer. The barrier for entry went from needing to be a nerd with years of experience to a literal child still in school. Of course you had exceptions and if you go back to the simplist games like snake or whatever a child could feasibily make those as well.
But seriously think about the differences from Crash to any first party Sony game released in the last 10 years, one is a tight, simple platformer with simple objectives and simple controls. Modern games have 10 trillion different things going on, buttons that do 10 different things, animations for every little thing you can imagine, stories written and edited by dozens of people, ect. They don't even compare, not to mention dev teams went from a dozen people to hundreds if not thousands of people, there's a lot of logistics and red tape between one guy saying something needs to be done and another person on the other side of the planet making sure it gets done. This is why you have the occasional indie game absolutely trouncing AAA because a small dedicated team working on a fairly simple product can get shit done way faster than a giant global megacorp.

>>11912442
I think the magazines said some stuff they wanted for DK64 they just put in DKC 3, it made me so disappointed with DK64, I really was expecting something like a sidescroller, not a British humor joke rap song, yep now I find it pretty funny but back then I thought they were trying to be hardcore and failing.

>>11911797 (OP)
I think is because if you took too long your game would be woefully outdated, I think thats what happened to BattleCruiser 3000AD and why a lot of 16 bit games were cancelled. Long times for the era would be Falcon 4 which was mentioned in reviews and MGS skipped a generation but the idea to make it probably happened after Snatcher.

>>11911872
You'd think the tools would be better, there is are so many textures in Duke 3d and Doom

>>11919206
All that and they can't make a sword not clip through the characters body and clothing