Thread 11914936

You know I'm tired of everyone pretending this is some open world non linear masterpiece, the levels are in numerical order and you must do all of them to win the game, sequence breaking isn't such a big deal, yet people act like if this is 8bit Skyrim

It's been a while since I last played this game but even without sequence breaking you can do some dungeons out of the 'intended' order

People on the internet always talk in extremes. Everything is always the worst piece of shit ever, or the most amazing flawless masterpiece.

>>11914936 (OP)
and how are you supposed to know "which order" if the game doesn't tells you where they are. You are not using a guide, are you anon?

>>11914993
Each dungeon is labeled as level 1, level 2, level 3, etc. in the in-game menu screen. Have you seriously never played Zelda 1?

>>11914989
>Everything is always the worst piece of shit ever, or the most amazing flawless masterpiece.
I've never heard anyone here say the latter about anything unless it's some mediocre Saturn game that no one played

>>11914994
how about some reading comprehension next time.

>>11914936 (OP)
if you take a look at the game it was ripping off hydlide its pretty clear that zelda actually is a fucking masterpiece. so much so that it defined the entire genre going forward, and literally set the standard for ARPGs

>>11915008
Then why isn't the genre called Zelda-likes rather than being ADVENTURE games?

>>11915000
I'm sorry for offending you.

I am angry at people liking Nintendo and that's that

>>11915027
Nintendo games are good, but the fan base, especially on this board, is obnoxious and constantly shitflings in threads for other consoles

>>11915008
Did Zelda really rip off Hydlide? I know both games were inspired partially by Tower of Druaga

>>11915030
I can't think of any "fanbase" or "fandom" that isn't obnoxious

>>11915030
NTA but I've never noticed this, I don't think shitposters from /v/ who cause shitflinging here belong to any kind of a particular fanbase, they sometimes just larp as fans of stuff to stir shit up

If anything, OOT might allow more wandering.
The second you get out of the forest, a lot of area is just open to you.
If I remember in the original Zelda, a lot of stuff is gated by gaps, water, and trees.
OOT doesn't force you to discover your ability to jump or swim.

>>11915030
nintendo is usually mocked by everybody because of the soi numale meme.
People being weirdly upset are newfags who keep confusing this place with reddit

>>11915047
"You aren't allowed to like things because I saw a Wojack meme about it" is peak zoomerism, and this is a board for old people who hate you.

Todd Howard has stated numerous times that his favorite game is Ultima, and it's also assumed that Zelda 1 was partially based on Ultima.

>>11915047
> the soi numale meme.
>People being weirdly upset are newfags
That's a newfag tourist meme lmao

>>11915021
>why isn't the genre called Zelda-likes
It is? People refer to some games as Zelda-likes all the time. There are at least 30 retro games that fall under this term.

>>11914936 (OP)
Was there something better in terms of non linearity before Zelda 1? Ultima?

>>11915075
Hydlide? I dunno if it's "better", exactly.

>>11914936 (OP)
>8bit Skyrim
Is that supposed to be praise?

>>11915034
I don't think I've ever been annoyed by a Sega fan here. Even with Sonicfans being notoriously autistic and me shitting on Sonic at every opportunity.

>>11915075
Elite.

>>11915085
Real Sega fanboys, who can't get over the fact that the console wars are over, can be incredibly annoying.

>>11915085
Probably because actual Sega fans don't exist much anymore, since the last time they were part of console wars was in the late 90s/early 00s tops.
But nah there's a lot of obnoxious, loud Sega fanboys, especially SoA fanboys, eating up Kalinske and co's bullshit and blaming SoJ like gullible faggots.
No fanboy is free of being obnoxious, it has to be something very niche for it to be safe from that, practically impossible nowadays.

>>11915050
you misunderstood, i'm saying the common trolling tactic is to mock nintendo. Thinking people here still considers them the saviors of gaming is retarded, everybody rather makes fun of them and it's fans.

>>11915061
>newfag excited to use his epic "2015 oldfag" picture
that's nice sunshine.

>>11915045
Pretty sure you can get to every screen of the overworld (except level 4) right away.

>>11915098
They do. They're strange bewildered creatures who arise from time to time. Usually stammering some nonsense about the SNES being bad because it doesn't have any arcade genres (incorrect), or coping aggressively about how the Saturn and the Dreamcast turned out.

>>11915094
As I've already said in one of my posts there are obnoxious morons who don't even play video games but for some reason decide to larp as Sega fans

>>11915103
>everybody rather makes fun of them and it's fans.
I make fun of nintendo fanboys as much as I make fun of other fanboys, but nintendo, retro nintendo at least, is fine. I make fun of anti nintendo mature gamers.

>>11915109
Oh right, I forgot about those idiots who claim that the Dreamcast only died because of piracy.
I do hate those faggots.

>>11915109
Those people are just shitposters who've never touched a Saturn game in their lives, you should just ignore them

>>11915124
This.
A LOT of the anti-snes shitposting you see is from 1 guy who LARPs as a sega fan but is actually an old brit who is angry nintendo is more popular than zx spectrum and amiga.

>>11915103
>trolling tactic
The fuck are you even doing on this board?

>>11915103
I don't believe in this myth of "nintendo fans" who think they invented everything, and defend every move they make. This is a strawman.
My entire life, Nintendo fans have been the biggest critics of Nintendo. Sometimes to the point of ridiculousness. You basically have to wait a few years whenever a Nintendo game comes out, because discussion will be drowned out by people saying the game was shit and the old ones were better.
Every time. Mario Sunshine, Metroid Fusion, Wind Waker. Every DK that isn't DKC2. Every Starfox that isn't 64. Basically any new franchise that wasn't on the SNES is immediately met with snearing.
That's what Nintendo fans are like.

>>11915124
I've literally met them.

One thing I noticed through my years of reading video game discussion/shitposting is that all the severely mentally ill shitposters/namefags/tripfags are ferviently anti-Nintendo for whatever reason. You know, guys like Ruggarell, Quentin, ACfag, Manlet tears and here on /vr/ australia-kun.
These all share the same kind of heavy autistic energy with that sort of trademark way of no-life, terminally online shitposting demeanor, and they all happen to have a serious agenda against Nintendo.
What does Nintendo have that causes these kind of people to seethe for decades and stay rent free in their minds so much? Why don't other companies cause the same effect? Sure you see a lot of anti-Sony/Xbox/PC or even other normal anti-Nintendo stuff around, but these kind of super autismal people are focused on Nintendo.
Not a Nintendo fanboy myself, but I am a weeb and I do like japanese games in general, which Nintendo is part of. I also like Sega and (old) Sony.

>>11915031
definitely
for one, he literally said he was inspired by hydlide when making it
but moreover, zelda plays much more like hydlide than either of those games play like druaga
the only thing zelda really took from druaga thats of any note is the idea of making opaque/hidden secrets, in the hope that ppl would talk about them irl with other ppl who were also playing the game

>>11915143
>Ruggarell
Is that the black guy? I think I exchanged a couple messages with him on MAL over 10 years ago

>>11914936 (OP)
>Games should strive to be Skyrim
Or how to discredit your shit for brains thread in a single sentence.

>>11915161
Yeah, he was (is?) super serious about his anti-Nintendo agenda. I remember people found his sekrit chan where he planned the raids to /v/ and stuff.

>>11915143
I've been wondering that myself. Nintendo derangement syndrome is something else.
Is it just that they're ostensibly the most popular video game company, and so they attract all of the shit to themselves like a magnet?
Is it some kind of weird fragile masculinity thing, where you see other people enjoying "kid games", and you flip your shit. The "manchild" accusation is always a sore point for people who are actual manchildren. Same reason MLP or Sonic upsets people to such a degree, I would imagine.

>>11915143
personally i find nintendo to be the cuntiest of all the major vidya corporations
in the modern day theyre known for all sorts of vidya sins
>C&Ding random romhacks/fan-projects
>selling underpowered hardware for full-price
>making the same games like 100 times
>censorship etc
but since i dont play modern games, at all, it doesnt really apply to me. i just get to see it from the sidelines and think, "wow, thats gay. i cant believe ppl put up with that".
so all thats really left for me, is their games in the 80s/90s. which, in general, were pretty fucking good. so i just play those and try not to worry about the rest

but if youre asking me why nintendo has such virulent haters, its probably because of that. theyre kinda just a bunch of cunts, and they dont treat their fans with very much respect. so you end up with a lot of spurned/scorned ex-fans whove snapped back the other way to compensate

>>11915189
>>selling underpowered hardware for full-price
>>making the same games like 100 times
>>censorship etc
This is kinda universal and also isn't it that in a bizarre turn of events, since Siny went full woke upon transferring their HQ to california, they were the ones censoring games while nintendo wasn't?
As for C&D stuff, I know they've done it but at the same time many of their games are the most romhacked of all time, I don't see any C&D for the thousands of SMW hacks that exist.
But same as you, I don't really play modern games, so I could be wrong. But yeah I don't believe Sony or Microsoft are any better.

>>11915189
Are they really though? It seems like that's just shit everyone does, and people expect Nintendo do be better, for some reason.
I'm not defending Nintendo. I just have very little expectations of corporations. It's cool that Sega lets fangames happen, but that's an exception, not a rule. I still remember when Square shut down the fan made Chrono Trigger remake. I also remember when Sega themselves shut down the Streets of Rage remake. I think just recently Sega shut down an FPGA clone console.

>>11915196
>>11915198
>This is kinda universal
>Are they really though?
yea for sure. and they were among the first to start really doing that kind of stuff too. i remember seeing /v/ bitching about it all like 15yrs ago.

its just always kinda been like this. even back in the 90s when they were pretty good, they were still the fags leading the charge on censoring MK. you could see where it was all going, in retrospect. the eternal refusal to acknowledge the existence of any of their fans over the age of 8 lol.
and theyve always been the most pissy about roms, even after getting caught literally using dumps of their own roms to sell to ppl. they let stuff slide most of the time, but once they got thier eye on you, theyre among the worst to be getting sued by. i seem to remember a rom site that i used that had to remove nintendo games due to being sued/C&Dd.
then more into the modern age, there was that whole mini dark age they had after iwata died and the wii u happened. where i dont even know what it was they were doing. making 1st party shovelware?
they just always seem to be extremely tonedeaf towards what a lot of their core fans/repeat customers want, and usually seem very confused about wtf it is theyre even trying to sell to ppl.

idk, like i said i havent played the new stuff. but i can see why/how ppl that really loved those games would start losing their fucking minds after x amount of time.
the only thing i can think of to draw parallel to nintendo spergs would be blizzard. and that seems to be a very similar situation. with VERY similar symptoms too.
so TL;DR its scorned fans i bet

>>11915189
It's called being shrewd. You really can't blame them. They're not a fucken non-profit. They're running a business. They are literally competing in the market. They aren't gonna let a bunch of chumps ruin their profits and they aren't gonna leave money on the table or the low hanging fruit to go bad. They're gonna scoop up as much as they can and make as much money as they can or somebody else is going to do it and steal their market share. I don't think you can even begin to understand the kinds of threats a company like Nintendo faces or what the competition is like. Just look at the bajillion vidya developers that went under over the years. What did they do wrong? They probably weren't shrewd enough, anal enough and conservative enough, that's what. Running a business can be extremely volatile. It's almost like you can either be a cunt or you go out of business, so what would you do? The other thing is they aren't selling old games on old consoles anymore, so it behooves them to make those old games accessible somehow. If they don't, then they basically become abandonware.

>>11915274
>they just always seem to be extremely tonedeaf towards what a lot of their core fans/repeat customers want
Okay, so you're a big company like Nintendo and you want to "know what fans want". Don't you understand what kind of monumental task that is? Everyone is a "fan" and everyone has an opinion. Most "fans" suck at vidya and most people can't express themselves for shit. You're more than likely going to hear noise from all the people who have a shit opinion anyway, because they are usually the loudest. So how do you even find the "good" fans that know what they're talking about when your fan base is spread out literally all over the world. How do you even train someone to discern the difference between a "good" fan and a "bad" fan? Even if you could hear clearly what the "good" fans were saying, is it even possible to provide that? Honestly, it's hard to say. There's a lot more going on than just "Why doesn't Nintendo give me what I want?!".

>>11915274
>refusal to acknowledge the existence of any of their fans over the age of 8 lol.
This isn't true. They always were "for everyone". Games like Super Mario, Zelda, even Pokemon or Animal Crossing, while having a cute aesthetic, are made with all kind of ages in mind. Ok, maybe not edgy 12 year olds who want to be seen as mature, but everyone else.
It's vox populi that "nintendo is kiddy" but at the same time Nintendo made games like Metroid (Super Metroid has bloody corpses on its very title screen), F-Zero (implied that it's a deadly race, F-Zero X even has "Death Race" mode), the Wars series... I dunno, I don't see them as "fisher price of gaming" as many paint them.
They also funded and published games like Killer Instinct and Goldeneye, Sin and Punishment, and in recent years, Bayonetta. I remember they did an event at their NYC store where they hired a Playboy model to cosplay as Bayonetta.
Some other games they funded/published that come to mind, Eternal Darkness (rated M, I believe?), and Gamecube was the main platform for the 6th gen Resident Evil games.
I think the real "kids video games" are edutainment stuff, like the stuff you mostly find on PC. Consoles and arcades mostly have that same "for everyone" appeal. Nintendo, sega, capcom etc all have their share of cute (or "kiddy") and more cool/mature, but the important thing is if the games are fun or not.
Just an observation. I think the way western marketers twisted around people's perception is a big part of why nintendo is seen as kiddie, don't think it's like that in Japan. Also, the whole Mortal Kombat censorship was pushed by NoA, not NoJ. Japanese companies in general, at the time, were very cautious about avoiding possible lawsuits, read the story behind why Poison and Roxy from Final Fight were turned into "newhalves".

>>11914936 (OP)
>muh sequence breaking
shut teh fuck up, no one cares about this shit but autistic speedrunners.

Zelda 1 is an extremely well done adventure RPG that absolutely nailed the fundamentals and is still a blast today.

>>11915310
Okay but it's not the super open world experience

>>11915315
You can get to almost every dungeon from the start, and some you stumble upon. Pretty super.

>>11914936 (OP)
>Doesn't know the joy of unwrapping this game on Xmas in 1988 and spending the next two weeks playing with your entire family working together to figure out the obstacles.
I truly feel sorry for people born in the 21st century. You'll never know what true happiness feels like.

>>11915364
You literally can only go to three dungeons from the start and they are levels 1, 2 and 3 not something like 7

>>11915371
I believe Level 8 can also be completed without visiting any previous dungeons.

>>11914936 (OP)
Fucking amen. OoT is more open and non-linear than this bullshit.
>whoooa you can access most of the overworld from the very beginning...
Yeah, the small and repetitive overworld broken down into individual screens like "a straight pathway through a rocky mountain with a few tektikes in it" or "a pond with a fairy that heals your health" or "screen with just 6 rocks on it and nothing else... but there's a secret under one of the rocks". Epic.
>whoooa you can access most of the dungeons from the very beginning...
Yeah, "access", not beat. Unless you purposely enter a dungeon, take the item, leave and go beat another dungeon, which you can also do in OoT.

Z1 was amazing for its time, but these people who act like it was some ridiculously nuanced experience compared to stuff like ALttP, OoT or even the Oracle games are braindead retarded. They also seem to conflate non-linearity solely with "BUT HOW MANY DUNGEONS CAN YOU WALK INTO LOL" without accounting for stuff like how many quests you can access, how many items you can get, or so on. OoT allows more freedom between beating the Deku Tree and getting to Dodongo's Cavern than Z1 has in the first half of the entire game, to say nothing of the adult portion.

>>11915371
I remember getting to 5,6,8? I guess you can't complete them though.

>>11915149
Yet barely anyone remembers or talks about Hydlide outside of neck beards and virgins

>>11916142
Yeah, it's not normie shit mass marketed by a huge globalist corporation.
So what?

>>11914994
>game lets you go into dungeon 2
>lets you complete it
>player sees "Level-2"
>"Oh darn, guess I can't do this one yet."

>>11914936 (OP)
Something nobody talks about is how the original manual has a map of a huge portion of the game world. Though they didn’t include that in the virtual console release I played when I was younger.

>>11916172
Yes.
player of that time would assume they're doing something wrong when they see Level-2 and cuck out to go look for Level-1, as it was a common thing to do levels in order, like mario

>>11916283
>don't mind me, just doing these levels in order hehe
>skips all the way to level 4

>>11916291
did you miss the word "common" retard
nonetheless secrets are secrets, they aren't the main game flow

>>11916291
In Zelda you have to beat all the levels to save the princess though

>>11914936 (OP)
I'm sorry you're a fan of the linear shitty Zeldas. You don't have to keep making this cope thread though.

>>11916243
>the original manual has a map of a huge portion of the game world
I always bring that up, mate.

>>11916330
True

I hate how they use it to defend BotW more than anything. I played NES Zelda for the first time blind while waiting for BotW. I am retarded at old video games. I died 200 to 300 times and kept getting lost and shit but it was so much fun and I loved it. I hated BotW I dont want to get into it too much on this board but it did not feel like a spiritual successor to the original LoZ like they wanted at all. And everyone just goes

>UMMMMM BUT ZELDA 1 WAS OPEN WORLD

You retards are being overly dramatic and exaggerative just like those other chumps you disagree with. It's nice being able to do things in a different order. Especially when the dungeons accommodate the use of items that are "out of order". The difference between common dev philosophy is that some games were created to be open, but have a guide that creates the order (but doesn't really matter, they just had to start somewhere) while some games were created with a specific order in mind and you can't go out of order unless you glitch. The linear design just doesn't suit adventure/exploration games so well. It doesn't have to be so parizing and you dummies shouldn't let a bunch of other dummies (you're both dummies) trigger you.

Zelda 1 is cool as hell and a fun challenge for your mind to grasp, it teaches you to take it a little bit seriously but not too seriously. Its actually clever which you can't say about 99.9 percent of games.
JRPGs decided to go verbose while offering next to nothing that causes your neural circuits to actually reconfigure
Almost every action adventure game just decided to go down the line of codifying the game genre into less and less mentally stimulating constructs
>8bit skyrim
That would be a bad thing

>>11916814
>You retards are being overly dramatic

Please reread this part of your post and try to gain at least some self awareness.

>>11915021
Because, while there are tons of adventure games, barely anything at all is actually like, let alone successfully copies, Zelda, how it plays, and how it is actually structured. The only style of game that explicitly takes after it and works in its own right is ironically now called the 'Metroidvania'.

>>11915045
OoT allows you to *immediately* (as in, as soon as you get out of your house) explore close to all of the Lost Woods and find optional stuff there. It's actually quite a bit more open than even LttP.

>>11914936 (OP)
Just play the game and forget what others have to say.

>>11914936 (OP)
I love the original Zelda because it's such a good zoomie filter.

>>11916883
You mean Zelda 2
Anyone can beat Zelda 1

>>11915149
>he literally said he was inspired by hydlide when making it
Source on that? The established canon is that it was inspired by Ultima 2, and as such was going to have sci-fi elements and first person perspective dungeons.

>>11914936 (OP)
agreed. I feels like that's a narrative that was built up and propagated by people who either didn't play it or barely touched it beyond some archeological fun one afternoon
>>11914989
the attention economy pushes everything into extremes
people can't talk about the things they like without "the BEST X" or "thing 1 > thing 2 > thing n"
and then it creeps out of the algorithmic web into slower forums
though I do remember the ridiculous "the amiga is the best computer, hands down, no pc can do the amazing graphics of the AMIGA! have you SEEN zool?!" and "SEGA > NINTENDO!" in the playground, so maybe nothing ever changes

Ultima 4 was the peak of open world game design

>>11914936 (OP)
>sequence breaking isn't such a big deal,
its cool
>yet people act like if this is 8bit Skyrim
Its the closest to skyrim 8 bit ever got, likely influenced something that influenced something that influenced skyrim too

>>11917069
Zoomers get filtered by the "hidden" bombable walls in Zelda 1. It's been heavily documented.

>>11916836
Only a dingus could take issue with my post.

>>11917684
The game never told anons like >>11916283 that they could bomb walls whenever they wanted so they never tried.

>>11917528
I think you mean V

>>11914936 (OP)
In 1989 I did them out of order by accident and I'm pretty sure that's intentional.

>>11917791
>how was i supposed to know?

>>11917539
>Its the closest to skyrim 8 bit ever got, likely influenced something that influenced something that influenced skyrim too
do you zoomer niggers not understand that open-world RPGs like Ultima predate Zelda?

>>11914936 (OP)
>8bit Skyrim
That did not happen on Nintendo but elsewhere. This board is shit.

>>11918334
oy me

>>11914989
That's because a more nuanced opinion becomes far too wordy, people with less enthusiasm than you (ie. mostly everyone) on the subject will say tl;dr and call you a faggot because you didn't entertain them.

>>11918334
Class! Pure class!

>>11914936 (OP)
both games have mandatory content that must be completed to beat the game tho, the only real difference is the scale of optional content as in zelda that's mostly just looking for hidden rooms

>>11918334
Zelda 1 is more of a 8bit skyrim than this forgotten shit

>>11918460
>a more nuanced opinion becomes far too wordy
Maybe you are just low iq.

>>11915045
>If anything, OOT might allow more wandering.
definitely not. theres only a few tiles on the map in the original zelda you cant immediately get to

>>11918772
Yeah but it takes a lot longer to traverse a tile in OOT so you end up spending more time wandering.

>>11918772
Is it even worth going places if you can't do anything in those places though? In OOT you can immediately run in like four different directions, and find different mini games, or different quest lines that open up.

>>11918760
Nope.

>>11919272
Time well spent on that reply. Worth the bump too.

>>11919278
Are you really that fascinated by me?

>>11919287
Nta, but you really need to take a step back sometime and examine yourself and your actions. That is, if you're a real poster, which I doubt. I think you know what you're doing and you're doing it on purpose because this is the only source of human interaction you're capable of garnering.

>>11919370
What the fuck are you talking about?

I grew up on the NES but never had LoZ until emulators in the '00s.
For some reason aLttP is in my top-10 of all time but I can't stand the original LoZ. It's not just b/c it's an NES game, I still play other titles. I can see why others might really like it though and that's fine.

>>11918687
>Zelda 1 is more of a 8bit skyrim than this forgotten shit
Yes zelda is like electronic poetry, it makes me cry and masturbate at the same time. Here is some karma for you. It hurts to nsee people who don't realise that the only games we know about or care about were cartirge games for nintendo like it says in the subreddit faq that united us here. I being you fully and updot you. Imagine knowing about anything other than nintendo!

>>11918463
Truth

>>11919467
You sound insecure.

>>11919467
Seethe lol

>>11919427
Yeah it's a bit hard for snesbabbies

>>11919467
This but unironically

>>11918334
Literally who

>>11914936 (OP)
Another shit take. If you play without a walkthrough you'll find dungeons out of order. That's means the world is open you faggot.

>>11915315
For an NES game it is zoomie

>>11915564
Yeah you can go straight to all but 4 & 7 (which need raft/flute to access).

>>11919467
No one is ever going to think Spectrum games are as good as Nintendo. Grow up.