Thread 11917045

The eternal debate

>>11917045 (OP)
There's no debate unless you're a zoomer moron. RETRO made two decent metroids and a non-retro DK, Rare had output for three gens with a variety, quantity and quality that retro will never match.

>>11917058
Snesbabby

>>11917060
Kill yourself and suffer in hell

>Rareware 10 games for the N64 in 4 years
>Retro studio 5 games in the last 25 years

>>11917064
>rare ware
>3 identical platformers in the snes
>4 identical collectathons in the n64
Yeah I'm seeing a pattern

>>11917045 (OP)
Old Rareware was kino.
They carried the N64 together with Nintendo.

>>11917045 (OP)
In their prime? Rare, and it's not close.

>>11917045 (OP)
Retro is wanna-be Rare and Nintendo cock suckers. Rare was a fully individual entity that worked with Nintendo, but had its own separate, unique identity.

How did Nintendo even let some random no-name American dev that had never made a game before make 3D Metroid, and how did it actually work despite everything?

>>11917147
Didn't Nintendo fund the creation of Retro so they would have burger bitch boys?

>>11917096
Retro made actually good fps and didn't make cringe collectathons with fart and poop humor

Rare had a ton of output in the retro era, and Retro had like, what, 2 pretty good games in the retro era, and the second one is just a sequel to the previous, so basically 2 first person action adventure games.

Retro has made the same game over and over again for decades. Rare was all about variety, new series and trying out new gameplay styles.

>>11917164
Yeah, Rare never made an fps that was universally beloved.

I think every Retro game has been a masterpiece, whereas Rare had a rockier track record.
The caveat there being that Retro have made five games total, and Rare could put out five games in a space of two years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_developed_by_Rare
>Rare put out 16 games in the year of 1989
Damn.

Retro has no identity because they never made an original IP that shows it.

>>11917067
>Battletoads
>Killer Instinct
>Goldeneye
>Diddy Kong Racing
>Jet Force Gemini
>Dinosaur Planet/Starfox Adventures
Try a bit harder, m8

>>11917147
Retro were made up of Iguana veterans, and Iguana did great work on N64.

>>11917213
Raven Blade was MURDERED

If you listen to interviews, Retro's ability to communicate with Nintendo seems really bad, and I don't understand how it has never been addressed.
They were hired explicitly to be the wing of Nintendo who could make games for the western audience, and yet all they have worked on is adaptations of core Nintendo franchises, and all of their original concepts just circle the drain for a while, before inevitably being cancelled.
It's pretty clear they should be filling gaps that Nintendo aren't currently accounting for. They should make something like the Witcher, and an FPS (a real one). Maybe a realistic car game, or something kind of GTA coded. Maybe a new survival horror (or just Eternal Darkness 2). None of that ever takes form, for whatever reason.

>>11917248
Because they're only good when they're tardwrangled, otherwise they start making trash like Harmony or that Sheik wack-a-mole game.

>>11917258
How does no one tell them to stop doing that, and make a Half Life clone or something though? Seems like such a no-brainer.
Where was Reggie, all those years?

Seems like they're in this constant cycle of trying to guess what Nintendo wants, while barely any communication happens.

Like every studio outside of Japan not named 'Id' or 'Valve,' both are awful.

>>11917058
>two decent metroids
yeah, and one was a ṕinball game

>>11917164
>actually good fps
i remember NoA being super insecure at the time that they had to create a new term for metroid prime "FPA"

>>11917304
uhm, gabe bros, what the fuck is this???!!!

>>11917304
>>11917325
HL1 is better

>>11917304
FPS on the whole is kind of a shitty genre, isn't it?
There really is nothing that can be said to better Half Life 1, and that's a game from the 90's.

>>11917045 (OP)
RARE

>>11917045 (OP)
RARE

>>11917362
early FPS are some of the best games you could find. Is only when retards attempeted to make these cinematic games that things went to shit.

>>11917378
Early FPS was mostly boring brown labyrinths and keycard searching.
Goldeneye and Half Life elevated the genre to being focused on interestingly structured levels with a sense of forward momentum, and then Halo added cars and levels that are honestly too big, and then everyone just kind of rested on their laurels for 20 years.
It's kind of ridiculous how few attempts there have been to push this genre forward. You either have Call of Duty, which is Half Life for stupid people, or you have open world skinner boxes where you pick up loot.

Retro should pick a dormant Nintendo IP to try and revive, like StarTropics or Mach Rider.

>>11917304
PD is so overrated

>>11917265
>Where was Reggie, all those years?

reggie is just a figurehead, anon
his "kicking ass and taking names" speech wasnt even written by him. he merely said it

>>11919094
He was in theory head of Nintendo of America, and could have eased communication with the American studio and Japan.

>>11919094
He did say my body is ready though.

>>11917171
This killed Rare, btw.

>>11917323
first person adventure was so funny. Nintendo fans dont want that brutish *man* genre they want effeminate nerd games about silly worlds and friendship

>>11919346
It really is just Zelda in first person though. there's not much emphasis put on shooting.

>>11919302
Let's be honest, the Xbox audience killed Rare. There's simply no market there for anything they put out, apart from I guess that one pirate MMO.
Xbox fans want to play Halo, and Halo, and MAYBE Ninja Gaiden, but actually not really.

>>11917045 (OP)
Shigeru Miyamoto seethed like a bitch and chewed the heads off of staff after seeing Donkey Kong Country in action. There is no debate, really. He's quality control in all his projects and his track record is relatively blemish free.

>>11919412
that never actually happened.

>>11917045 (OP)
Its been shown multiple times through leaks and interviews that whenever rare actually tried to make anything on their own it would have ended up being garbage. Unlike rare who could actually make games without nintendo holding their hand.

>>11917045 (OP)
What's there to debate? No seriously, tell me.

>>11919412
Proof?

>>11917325
To be frank, based on some of some of the things Gabe has said about what he personally liked in vidya, the HL1 documentary and what Dario Casali has said about HL1's development, I believe Gabe would probably enjoy Metroid Prime if he ever played it.
Apparently he pushed for a lot of the platforming adventure-y aspects for HL1, which MP is closer to being than a traditional shooter.

>>11919404
>Xbox fans want to play Halo, and Halo, and MAYBE Ninja Gaiden, but actually not really.

and gears of war and forza
>last 3 gears of war games were shit
>forza motorsport is dead, only horizon exists
>both forza and gears are now on playstation

>>11917449
>Mach Rider.
I always feel like Mach Rider would be a brain dead easy IP to revive, since a "post-apocalyptic vehicular combat game" would fit right into the modern gaming landscape

>>11919994
Gears of War may as well just be Halo.

>>11919424
>>11919887
Read between the lines. Why do you think Miyamoto made Yoshi's Island in the first place? It was his middle finger to all the gamers who couldn't appreciate SMW and liked DKC better. "Oh, you don't like my baby shit and like cutting-edge graphics and the western character designs better? Well, guess what, fuck you gaijin! I'm gonna make an even more juvenile game filled pastel colors and literal babies".

Hell, why do you think they never use the DKC Donkey Kong design (the most popular iteration of the character) anymore? They literally made a new terrible kiddified design of him for the movie just to avoid having to acknowledge Rare. There's bad blood there.

>>11919346
>>11919395
is fucking stupid, doesn't feel like i'm on a distant planet but rather some facility with targets and weird bugs just walking on infinite cycles.
i'm surprised it doesn't have bats as enemies.

>>11920092
fanfiction

>>11920191
>i'm surprised it doesn't have bats as enemies.
uh

>>11919995
I think also adding a bit of Kamen Rider flavor to it would do great.

>>11917060
Rare's best games are on the NES anon

>>11920092
>Hell, why do you think they never use the DKC Donkey Kong design (the most popular iteration of the character) anymore?

nigga, they used it for 30 years

>>11920092
>bro still thinks the quote about Miyamoto making Yoshi's Island out of spite toward 3D renders is real
Okay, well firstly, Yoshi's Island has 3D renders in it. Secondly Mario Kart 64, Ocarina of Time, and Starfox 64 are filled with 3D renders. Thirdly, the sequel to Yoshi's Island is entirely 3D renders. Fourthly Rare's DK along with the extended cast of Kongs were gladly embraced by Nintendo, to the point that Rare were encouraged to center their kart racing game on Diddy instead of Timber. And fifthly the "new DK design" is more rooted in Rare's design than any other iteration, and the new game actually has King K. Rool in it, and even more flat out references to the DKC games and 64 than even the Retro developed entries had.

People have searched for sources for that particular quote, and found it was probably just made up by some guy, and accepted as hearsay for twenty years, because online gamer culture is retarded like that.

>>11921582
The specific design with the tie and spiky hair? They immediately dropped that once Rare left and they crapped out DK's Bongo Blitz (or whatever those games no one played are called) on GameCube.

Too cool. Too Western. Everything needs to look as bland as possible.

>>11917320
MPP was Fuse, not Retro

>>11919346
It is not your usual FPS, they are right.

>>11919346
Miyamoto already perfected the FPS genre with Geist.

>>11921767
DK hasn't not had a tie and spiky hair since DKC.

>>11917058
Rare was always quantity over quality. For every game they made that was even remotely decent, there were 10 others they made that were dogshit.

>>11922457
All rare games are 7 and up

>>11922457
Only pre DKC.

>>11923710
DKC was trash. Rare's best games were on the NES and even then they're an extremely spotty dev. They made good stuff like Battletoads, R.C. Pro-AM, Slalom, Cobra Triangle, and Captain Skyhawk, but they also made trash like Beetlejuice, Taboo: The Sixth Sense, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and Time Lord.

After the NES they made very little actually worth playing, especially on the N64.

Retro Studios had a spotless record until they went down the same path Rare did and started making DKC games.

>>11923707
Been playing video games since before you were in diapers.

>>11924868
That's nice, but the vast majority of the population of the Earth disagrees with your opinion.

>>11924879
That's nice, the vast majority of people can be wrong.

>>11921598
>the new game actually has King K. Rool in it, and even more flat out references to the DKC games and 64

That's just proof that old-man Miyamoto is on his death bed and can no longer run things at Big N with an iron fist any more.

>>11924868
>After the NES they made very little actually worth playing, especially on the N64.

Rare IS the N64. Banjo-Kazooie made Mario 64 look like a cheap tech demo.

Don't you ever wonder why Nintendo didn't even attempt to keep Rare, one of their key developers, from being stolen away by Microsoft? After all they pretty much bailed them out with their previous console. N64 would have probably petered out pretty quickly without games like GoldenEye or Banjo.

However, Miyamoto was probably overjoyed when he heard Nintendo could offload Rare. No longer would they have to deal with the humiliation of being shown-up by the Brits. They could continue to churn out low-effort, rushed crap like Super Mario Sunshine without fear that another developer would steal their thunder.

>>11925228
>Don't you ever wonder why Nintendo didn't even attempt to keep Rare, one of their key developers, from being stolen away by Microsoft?
Because Rare was showing its cracks at that time, Nintendo was not doing well financially, and was looking elsewhere for Western talent?

>>11924868
>DKC was trash
opinion discarded, saying this as a big wizards and warriors fan.

>>11917045 (OP)
Retro still exists and is about to release one of the most anticipated games of the last decades, likely to be one of the very best of the year. Rare, meanwhile, got shutdown in every way short of closing down its doors a month ago