Thread 11932686

Has any stealth game ever topped it?
I'm trying to make a spiritual successor and besides the atmosphere and ambience, what do you think makes the stealth in this game so good? Is it that dark areas are truely dark? Is it the maze-like level design you need to learn?

Are there any /vr/ games that you think are better at first person stealth I should give a try?

>Has any stealth game ever topped it?

Thief 2

>>11932686 (OP)
>Has any stealth game ever topped it?
As strictly stealth games? several

People keep overhyping the "stealth" aspect of the game(s), when the appeal is more than the sum of its parts. I'd say what makes it unique is the exploration and the navigation, not the stealth. I rather play the old Splinter Cell games if I actually want a stealth fix, since at least there's more of a penalty if I actually get caught.

>>11932686 (OP)
nope, the pagan themed missions and fan missions are absolute peak gaming even to this day

>I'm trying to make a spiritual successor
Gloomwood exists

>>11932785
I'd argue end-of-mission stats ruined stealth games. All they do is encourage boring ghost runs.

>>11932912
Arguably yes, but that only matters if you're looking for youtube videos to watch or if you only play the games once and then forget forever. I haven't let scores/stats ruin the way I play. I've replayed Chaos Theory or MGS V so much that I've tried every playstyle one can think of, stats be damned.

>>11932912
Not retro, but Splinter Cell Blacklist fixed this by having separate scores for different playstyles.

>>11932686 (OP)
>I'm trying to make a spiritual successor

The Dishonored series? Also Styx too.

>>11932686 (OP)
>Is it the maze-like level design you need to learn?
Thief levels are anything but maze-like. Getting stuck in a thief level is almost impossible because every area has at least two entry/exit points

>>11932912
>All they do is encourage boring ghost runs.
as opposed to what? knocking every guard you see on the back of the head immediately instead of engaging with their patterns? getting caught and transitioning into a sloppy action game?

>>11933907
Dismantling human security systems is alot of fun.

>>11932686 (OP)
>>11933218


Yes, Dishonored does 1st person stealth very well. It suffers a bit from "what the fuck am I supposed to be doing"-itis, which many modern 3D games do.
But other than that, the stealth aspects are great. The blink ability really helps you find ways around annoying guards etc.

>>11932686 (OP)
Chaos Theory.

>>11932686 (OP)
Dishonored is the only one that comes to mind of being on the same level. The Hitman series comes pretty close imo, barring Codename 47 and Absolution. Gloomwood is a close contender and well made, but I can't stand the New Blood devs and their arrogance so I don't count it.

>>11932785
>since at least there's more of a penalty if I actually get caught.
Can you elaborate on that? I feel like in Thief it's pretty hard to get back into stealth mode when caught as you frantically run around trying to lose the guards.

>>11933623
Sounds like a maze to me, lol
I think it's a good design to have multiple exit points so you always have somewhere to run to if things go wrong.

>>11934530
You can die easily in SC games (hardest difficulty), and combat controls are intentionally shitty so you don't Rambo your way out of situations. Thief if you get caught you can outrun the enemies and come back later, or take an alternative route (something harder to do in SC due to its linear nature)

>>11934551
Got it. Do you prefer to die easily when you are caught (prompting a reload) or to have a way to bounce back from the failure as long as it's not immersion breaking?
What do you think about outrunning enemies but them being stuck on alerted state for the rest of the level?

>>11934559
>(prompting a reload)
For me, I don't reload unless I die. One thing being difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. Sometimes it's fun to work your way out of difficult situations even when the odds are against you, and you can train yourself to minimize damage when caught (evasive manouvers, stun grenades, etc). I prefer the way SC handles it because at least I'm forced to pretend to give a fuck about the stealth genre the game is supposed to be part of. In Thief, you can play like a total spastic, except for the handful of segments you are not allowed to be seen.

>>11934536
>I think it's a good design to have multiple exit points so you always have somewhere to run to if things go wrong.
It's also to prevent backtracking. Maze-like design means that if there are three paths in front you, two of them are dead ends. In Thief all three paths would either lead to some objective, or loop around, or intertwine

>>11932686 (OP)
i think it's how realistic it tries to be by not only using light but also sound (though if i have to be honest i think cobblestone should be noisier than what it is in the game) and how the guards aren't *complete* numbskulls and remember you even after they lose track of you and even warn others that there is an intruder around
the only game that comes close is probably splinter cell
>>11932785
what other stealth games have topped thief in your opinion? I already played splinter cell and while I like it I don't think it's better than thief, dishonored is also good but it's not a pure stealth game

>>11932686 (OP)
yeah most of them

this game is overhyped, overrated, underhated not worth my time (You)rs is worthless though :(

>>11934963
Chaos Theory (much better than the previous two games) is the peak of the genre for me, play it if you haven't already. And mechanically speaking MGS V perfected the genre, too bad the game's braindead easy and the level design is absent, could've been really great.

I've heard good things of Intravenous but it's not a 3D title.

>>11934990
I have played chaos theory, I liked it but not as much as thief, I cant remember if different floor types made different sounds but one thing i really loved was the ability to mask your own noise with ambient noise
I dont think i've ever seen that feature outside chaos theory

>>11932686 (OP)
> Are there any /vr/ games that you think are better at first person stealth I should give a try?
No and I played plenty
>>11932872
Trash.
>primitive ai
>terrible physics and inability to feel player model, leading to shitty platforming
>>11933943
Not better but okay. I remember sound being very weird in that one.

>>11932686 (OP)
There was some Thief related ttlg drama.

ttlg forums
showthread.php?t=153043

Apparently the jannies there can't take any heat and locked it lmao. Too bad.

>>11935474
tl;dr two autismos clash and only the one true keeper could go through the effort of reading all that drama and finding out who among these two schizoid autists is worse than the other

>>11933062
>Not stealth
>Murder but sneaky
>Stealth

>>11935489
The best kind of mod drama.

>>11935048
>mask your own noise with ambient noise
Sounds interesting, how did it work?

How would the game change if you could not blackjack everyone and safely roam around the level? Or maybe max 3 guards incapacitated at a time (maybe hurts immersion)

>>11937167
A room with loud machinery would allow you to run around like a retard.
You could also make ambient noise by turning on stereo and thus move faster. Of course, AI would investigate the new source of music.
>>11937171
I would add a simple guard calls check where if presence of one missing guard would be noticed by one dude, he would just investigate it, but if he saw 2 are missing from details he would go in after alert state meaning hard to bypass/stealth him.
This solution is good since most patrols intersect with each other and knocking out one guy in some random room won't be that dangerous, but 'playing it safe' and knocking out two in small area risks putting whole place on alert by a zone wide patrol.
Of course you would need to communicate this to player somehow so it wouldn't look random so have guard run to nearest other known guard, alert him (with loud 'something is wrong, a couple of our security details are missing!'), return to his position and have the buddy alert his buddies and so on.
Places with alarm system would simply have alarm sets.
I know that in Deadly Shadows guards notice if someone is missing.

>>11937171
From what I've noticed over the years, most Thief players prefer to keep the blackjack usage to the minimum.
If you care about immersion, you could replace the blackjack with something like a sedative, like in the Hitman games

>>11932686 (OP)
>>11932785
>>11934530
Thief 1 and 2 are very good video games that are in the stealth genre.
The best thing about them are the level design, sound design, setting, and movement. Other games implement stealth systems considerably better, but there isn't a better game where you run around in the shadows of a 15th century city with 18th century technology and pagans and magic and undead creatures.

Splinter Cell and Hitman try very hard to be stealth games, all Thief has to do with its setting and sound design is be dark and have shadows and the stealth feels 100% real and immersive even though the engine is dated and the textures are hideous.

>>11937283
I thought about getting rid of it completely and provide a slingshot instead of a bow.
This way you get the bow's utility without having any way to kill guards. Not sure if the blackjack should be left in though for less experienced players

What >>11937264 suggested sounds interesting. Basically improving the AI to punish frequent nutralizing guards.