Thread 11941831

yeah

>>11941831 (OP)
i think the lack of developers on the DC doomed it more than no dvd player

A DVD player is not gonna put Madden on a Dreamcast.

>Hours before Dreamcast launch
>Not a year or two
That guy is a fucking idiot, might as well warn people about Hitler in 1942

>>11941831 (OP)
I think they should have kept the modem out and instead made it optional like the PS2 and GC had.
They needed more third-party support and an upgraded controller.

The DC itself was a really great console. It had one the best console launches. Some good launch games such as Soul Calibur, Sonic Adventure and Power Stone. Even the multiplats were usually the best. They had this arcade-to-DC pipeline, first test if the arcade games are good and then port/convert them.

Sega had to pull the plug in the end because they had no money anymore.

I hate the "DVD player" meme so much because by the summer of 2000 they were already like $150 for a decent model and dropped to $99 by that holiday season. Most people already had one in their living room and the novelty of watching DVDs instead of playing videogames on your PS2 wears off pretty quick.

>>11941831 (OP)
ok then why did the gamecube succeed?

>>11941831 (OP)
Wouldn't have mattered. SEGA was broke because of the Saturn and the DVD player would have made them even more bankrupt. Hell, Sonic Team made SA2 as the last Sonic game because they had no idea what the future held in store for them. You'd have to go back and fix the problems with the Saturn to save the Dreamcast.

>>11941831 (OP)
how’s about a memorable launch title. let’s start there.

should've launched with a real sonic game instead of trying to turn sonic into a jrpg or whatever the shit adventure was

>>11941831 (OP)
>not forcing sonic team to port SADX and 2 battle to PS2 at gunpoint so that people don't get gaslit by heroes into thinking sonic was never good

>>11941920
what was wrong with the Saturn?

>>11941972
Sega of America was balls deep into the Genesis ecosphere they spent billions on to nurture and they had no absolutely capacity to transition to the next generation until they sold off all Genesis-related products they had on hand.

>>11941962
They would have been butchered as fuck on PS2 and would have just had the opposite effect. DX in of itself already damaged SA1's reputation enough

Consoles becoming multimedia machines was a grave mistake.

>>11941972
>what was wrong with the Saturn?
In short:

1. Extremely poor worldwide sales.

2. Hardware that Western developers hated.

3. Sega Japan massively overspent on the Saturn. SJ expected it to be a huge smash hit, and so they spent hundreds of millions of dollars on expensive hardware, additional hundreds of millions on marketing, and then hundreds of millions more on selling Saturn at a loss to compete with Sony Playstation. Keep in mind that all of Sega was only worth around $4 Billion to $5 billion dollars in total. Spending 50% of the company's total value on a console was a bad idea.

By time Saturn was discontinued, Sega was actually in deep debt. Sega went from huge financial surplus (before Saturn)...to deep debt in a single generation. Normally it takes 2 or 3 generations of failures to do that to a company. But the Saturn did that in just 1 generation. The failure was that horrible.

Sega Japan was so broke that they actually had to take out bank loans to make the Dreamcast.


4. No Sonic game.

How did the PS1 (or PSX as cultured people call it) achieve 100 million copies sold without a DVD?

>>11941972
Sega had a really good 1992 and 1993 in the West, so Sega of America smelled the money and ordered close to 5 million more Genesis than they could sell. Because they didn't want to get called out on this mistake they continued supporting the Genesis until 1997, absolutely failing to market the Saturn properly. 32X and later first-party games on Genesis were part of this. The Saturn had an equal or lesser marketing budget than Genesis for its entire run in the United States, with the Genesis' sales declining every year the Saturn was out. The last year of Genesis sales, Sega spent the Saturn's entire marketing budget to sell about 60,000~ consoles, on clearance. The 32X was $25.

In Japan, Saturn was marketed as Sega's primary console and had hit games in all major genres. It would come in second place to PS1 there, but outside of Japan it never had a chance. Sega would have been better off translating the games with limited English ability and just shipping direct to retailers in a box, SoA sabotaged them that bad.

There is no answer for the failure of the Saturn that is more accurate than, "Mass hysteria took hold at the Sega of America offices, leading to them thinking 8 year old hardware with a 7 MHZ processor was better than the cutting edge 3D/ArcadePort/VCD machine." Saturn being bad at 3D, Saturn needing Sonic Xtreme, and Saturn being impossible to develop for are all copes that these clowns came up with to excuse the fact that they were one of the most incompetent teams in the history of software development. People like this guy 100% believe this horseshit: >>11942010 because former SoA employees spent hundreds and hundreds of hours spouting it to anyone who would listen. If the hardware was so shit, then why did multiple Western and JP studios get gold out of it? If Westerners were too dumb to code on it, how come Traveler's Tales and Lobotomy had 0 problems with it?

SoA's negligence and warehouse full of unsold Genesis killed the company.

>>11941831 (OP)
A dvd player would not have saved the Dreamcast.

>>11942010
>No Sonic game
pretty sure I played sonic racing and that 3d sonic, sonic adventures or something? on the saturn.

>>11942010
>so they spent hundreds of millions of dollars on expensive hardware
So how come this expensive hardware sucked ass against cheap PlayStation?

>>11941831 (OP)
fuck that invest in bitcoin and buy sega after you cash out. they have a mascot that rivals mario and had the sega, and they STILL fucked up. They dont deserve ownership

>>11942117
Playstation's GPU is almost twice as fast, but Saturn has 2 GPUs and 3 CPUs.
Performance can be better than Playstation, but you have to know what you're doing, you can't just attempt to draw the polygons all on the first GPU and expect a good result.

Playstation wasn't cheap though. Sony and Sega both lost money on every console sold. They then recouped it via licensing fees on games. Sega failed to recoup the money on the Saturn because the install base was not large enough outside of Japan. The high development and unit production cost were logical at the time, because Genesis had the highest per capita "games sold per gamer" of any console in history, most Genesis owners, even casuals, had 7-12 games. It even worked in Japan, where Saturn ended up with the highest per capita games per gamer of any console itself.

Marketing was the problem, and marketing doesn't just mean advertisements. They needed to translate and release about 50 good games they didn't. There are massive holes in multiple genres of the US Saturn release library because Sega of America were stubborn retards. Holes that don't exist in the Japanese Saturn library or the Mega Drive/Dreamcast library. Not bringing over random great games like Shutokou Battle '97 was absolutely stupid. Of course, PS1 owners got that game in America as Tokyo Highway Battle, but Saturn owners? Nah, Sega of America is too busy making Sonic X-treme for PC or some braindead shit.

Fuck off with this wojak shit already. This place is turning more into /v/ everyday.

>>11942152
>most Genesis owners, even casuals, had 7-12 games
holy fuck is that all the sales companies expect from consoles?

>>11942015
kek

>>11942207
For normalfags most consoles are a distraction for one christmas cycle where they buy 2 games and maybe 1 or 2 other games the whole time they own the system.

For example, 90% of Xbox360 owners had 1 NBA game, 1 NFL game, 1 Halo game, and 1 CoD game. On Wii it's usually New Super Mario Bros, Wii Sports, Mario & Sonic at the Olympics, and Mario Kart.

>>11942081
>f the hardware was so shit, then why did multiple Western and JP studios get gold out of it? If Westerners were too dumb to code on it, how come Traveler's Tales and Lobotomy had 0 problems with it?

I was with you until this, the hardware was incredibly difficult to code with, even the SDK manuals available online back that up.

>>11941919
>succeed
i bet you think being terminally on 4chan is success too.

>>11941919
Because it was cheap to produce. That's how thet came out with a profit. But even then it was a minor success at best. But not because it didn't have a DVD player. If idiots thought DVD players made a console succeed then the Xbox should have sold way more consoles.

>>11941910
Shut up snoy. Brazilians and moviefags are the customer base of Playstation and always will be.

>>11942347
The Xbox needed an accessory to play dvds

>>11942357
Check the sales numbers in the US, Europe and Japan.

>>11942303
>>11942347
isn't the gamecube's version of smash still considered the ultimate version of the game?

>>11942081
>If the hardware was so shit, then why did multiple Western and JP studios get gold out of it?

The hardware wasn't "shit". The design of the hardware was needlessly complex in an era where simplicity was the most important.

Sega Director Yu Suzuki had to leave to temporarily leave the Arcade division to help with the Virtua Fighter port. He said the Saturn was challenging and time consuming to program games for it. This is Sega's own employee saying it. Their own employee.

>If Westerners were too dumb to code on it, how come Traveler's Tales and Lobotomy had 0 problems with it?

It's not that they can't. They just don't want to. Especially when better options like Playstation and Nintendo 64 are available. Studios have limited resources. Why waste time on a console that takes twice as much time to code games for? Playstation and N64 take much less time.

>>11942081
Funny how you just skipped over how Sega of Japan was 900 million dollars in debt. I'm not going to reply to you until you address this point.

>>11941910
I always assumed the whole using the PS2 as a DVD player was a turd worlder thing, as they wouldn't be able to afford both. Maybe Japs too since they live in shoeboxes and having a 2 in 1 machine saved space. I don't think I ever once played a DVD on my PS2 though, because I already had an actual DVD player that was far more convenient to use.

>>11942452
I remember ps3 selling out forever because it had a blu-ray player and it was cheaper than blu-ray players, so home theater enthusiasts that didn't play games were buying them up.

>>11941919
It didn't

>>11942436
its not. the switch game has sold over 35 million copies. its not quite as technical as melee but it has one of the largest rosters of any fighting game

>>11941831 (OP)
>just slap a dvd (*implying that such inclusion would be costless*)
Did you really want Sega to go bankrupt beyond recovery?
Xbox: same price, but more pOwErful and also has DVD... still: no one cared!

>>11941910
>>11942452
You guys were early adopters. I remember my dad getting a DVD player early too and jumping on that train, but most of my friends at the time didn't have one.

>>11941831 (OP)
>strong lineup of launch titles
>backwards compatibility

b-but muh dvds

>>11942545
PS2 had DVD support out of the box, Xbox didn't.

>>11942580
Xbox has save game feature out of the box, ps2 didn't

>>11942596
From the start the Xbox ads has the DVD addon being offered alongside de console. Still: no one cared!

>>11942546
Nobody was buying a PS2 to play dvds if anything that was a bonus. People seem to forget that sony had already sold 100 million playstations and had a huge install base, combine that with the fact the PS2 was backwards compatible and that the huge population of people that owned PS1 were going to buy the PS2 for that and because it was familar. Couple that with the fact the PS2 was the first major console to launch after the Dreamcast which was floundering due to lost customer support it's no surprise the PS2 was a massive success compared to any other console on the market. The DVD was not the lynch pin and never was.

>>11942610
I was like 10 but I remember everybody buying a PS2 just because of MGS2, even though it was nowhere near a launch title.

>>11942557
shovelware

>>11942545
>Xbox: same price, but more pOwErful and also has DVD... still: no one cared!
It still comfortably outsold the GameCube, despite that being from the mighty Nintendo with all its history and built-in mindshare. Kind of embarrassing really and it highlights just what a disaster the purple lunch box was. Of course, the GameCube also lacked DVD support just like the Dreamcast. I guess it was just coincidence that the two successful consoles of that generation could play DVDs and the two gigantic flops couldn't.

>>11942643
>comfortably outsold
>24m units vs 22m units
Come on, now.
>despite that being from the mighty Nintendo with all its history and built-in mindshare
"the mighty Nintendo"... you mean like how the Xbox was backed by the largest corporation on earth, had a $500m+ marketing budget, and was sold at a loss for almost its entire existence just so MS could gain a market foothold?
>it highlights just what a disaster the purple lunch box was
It was such a disaster that the hardware was profitable from day 1 instead of being sold at a loss, they sold almost 50 million more software units than the Xbox did (160m for xbox vs 205m~ for GCN), and the console's hardware was subsequently used a second time to create the Wii which le printed money.

PS2 won that gen pretty handily. Acting like the GCN was some abysmal failure compared to the Xbox though... that is mentally retarded. The Xbox lost MS money, that isn't what I call winning.

>>11942517
what does roster matter in esports?

>>11942616
Armored core 2 is not shovelware. It's the best armored core by far and a great game. The arena is absolutely amazing.

>>11942663
Because people have favorite players and dream teams and stuff. Simulating things that can never happen in real life is important if you're a fan. I used to do it with Madden 94 and WrestleMania 2000.

>>11942657
>literal millions of units isn't comfortable
Tendie delusion.
>Xbox was backed by the largest corporation on earth
Irrelevant. Microsoft were a complete non-entity in the console market and Nintendo were the 500lb gorilla. A 500lb gorills which got fucked in the ass by Sony and then by Microsoft in consecutive generations, despite a decade-long head start.
>was sold at a loss for almost its entire existence
Almost every console ever made has been sold at a loss initially. That's literally the boilerplate console model.
>It was such a disaster that the hardware was profitable from day 1
MORE tendie delusion. The GameCube was sold at a loss at launch and then at a loss again when they had to keep slashing the price because it was such a failure.
https://web.archive.org/web/20040905160443/http://www.quiter.jp/news/gc/040813001763.html
Perrin Kaplan outright admitted to IGN that they were making a loss on each unit sold after it'd been cut all the way to $99 in late 2003.
https://www.ign.com/articles/2004/01/15/gamecube-sales-update
>they sold almost 50 million more software units than the Xbox did
There are zero reliable figures for software sales for the original Xbox.
>Acting like the GCN was some abysmal failure
It was. We both know it, even if you can't admit it even now, nearly 25 years on. Still too painful I guess. Give it another 25 and we'll get there. Literally the only positive thing for Nintendo to come out of it was reusing the hardware for the Wii, but that in itself had absolutely nothing to do with why the Wii was successful. If anything, it eventually became a millstone around the Wii's neck as it started to look more and more dated, and sales fell off a cliff later in its life as the fad ended and it had nothing else going for it.

>>11942705
Nta anon but 2 million is not that dominant. Especially when you look at the literal 100 million the PS2 sold.

>>11942670
ok but which one has a larger smash esports scene? gamecube or switch?

>>11941831 (OP)
>cope

>>11941919
What the fuck are you talking about? It failed completely. Xbox sold more than it.

>>11941831 (OP)
I get the "how SEGA should've fixed the Saturn" threads and all... but the Dreamcast? It was already done, there was no way SEGA was going to beat the PS2 and no matter how well the Dreamcast did, SEGA would stil go under and drop out of the console market. The reason SEGA failed in the console market was due to the Genesis add ons and, most of all, the Saturn.

>>11942790
>Genesis add ons
Eh. Genesis had a lot weird add on and accessories like the Sega Mega jet, Sega Nomad, 32x, etc. They failed but it wasn't a huge deal.

>and, most of all, the Saturn.
Yes. Sega bet the entire company on this console. I mean literally. All their money was used to push it. This decision sent Sega to the brink of collapse.

>>11942839
>They failed but it wasn't a huge deal.
It was. Sega had spent a crapton of money to produce all that Genesis-related shit and then it just sat in warehouses, taking limited space from something they could sell instead, like Saturns.

>>11942849
Sega Genesis had already more than paid for itself by then by selling around 35 million units. So these add-ons failing, while it sucked, wasn't a big deal in the grand picture.

What really killed the company was Saturn. If you look at Sega of Japan's Financials before Saturn's release in 1994 to about 1998 after 4 years of Saturn, then you will see how badly Saturn hurt the company. Sega of Japan was absolutely wrecked financially.

>>11942596
Were memory cards really 35 bucks? I guess I forgot about them being so expensive.

>>11942875
Saturn did not sell because Sega had no logistical capacity to sell or market Saturns. Their supply chain outside Asia was completely clogged by the Sega Genesis family of products. Sega invested heavily to make Mega Drive a success abroad and they got grossly overextended as a result.

>>11941831 (OP)
That's this board in a nutshell.
>>11941853
I was thinking about that. It's a kiss of death for any console when EA refuses to support it. It happened to the Dreamcast, and it happened to the Wii U as well, but the latter's not retro.
>>11941910
A dollar was worth more back then. A lot of people who wanted both a DVD player and a video game console probably opted for a PS2 so they could save money.

>>11941867
Actually if you told them about everything he was revolting against like transgender shit and Jewish bankers you could help a lot. Even Winston Churchill said we fought for the wrong side. So go back and tell them it’s 270,000 and not 6 Million. Israel is the greatest enemy of the world and has generated instability throughout the whole world. Donald Trump loves tasting rabbi spit left behind in circumcision scars!

>>11942889
>Sega invested heavily to make Mega Drive a success abroad and they got grossly overextended as a result.
Another major problem was that Sega released the Sega Genesis very late in some countries. Some places didn't receive the Sega Genesis until 1993 or even early 1994. It's wild. Apparently Sega has never heard of simultaneous worldwide launch. Or at the very least, don't wait YEARS to launch the Genesis in some countries.

>>11942010
Don't forget pissing off Western retailers with their stunt at E3 1995, where they announced the release of the Saturn RIGHT when they were releasing it to retailers. That stunt alone made most retailers not only not stock the Saturn and Saturn games, but never do business with Sega again and I don't blame them. That's a dick move to not give these companies a couple month's to make clearance space for the Saturn and allow them to be able to sell them when they're actually supposed to release rather than have to deal with customers getting pissed at you for Sega's logistical fuckup.

>>11943561
Screw these retailers for killing the Saturn. I'm glad they got killed by the dot-com boom in 1999 when everyone realized buying stuff on Amazon is way better.

>>11943591
>Yeah fuck those retailers for being upset by Sega's fuck up! They should've just taken Sega's dick up their ass like I did!
You bought a 32x at launch didn't you?

>>11941831 (OP)
Based

>>11941853
Anon the sports games were the crown jewel of the dreamcast. NFL 2k-2k2 were specifically lauded because they were better than madden

>>11941890
The thing was already being sold at a loss during a time Sega couldn't afford to sell it at a loss but packing in a mouse and a keyboard would have been a better idea than going without a modem

>>11941924
Soul caliber was the killer ap at the time. The problem was what to buy after soul caliber and sports games

>>11941831 (OP)
Sick of this myth. Sega was doomed to fail regardless after the money pit they dug themselves in with the 32X and Saturn. Dreamcast at best would've only temporarily delayed that if it did well enough. Doesn't help that while knee deep in debt they developed one of the most expensive video games ever made at the time which also happened to be a pile of boring pretentious shit no one liked.

>>11941831 (OP)
DC’s issue was that it was discs can be easily pirated

>>11944715
Exactly this. From what I understand, no DC game sold more than a single copy. All the rest were burned CD-Rs.

>>11942010
>no sonic game
A sonic game MIGHT have saved the saturn in 1995, but by 1996 when Crash Bandicoot and Mario 64 released, Sonic was no longer cool and the Saturn was already dead.

>>11944927
He is clearly a committed Sega fan already, you need more than your core audience to make a console a success. Normalfags moved on from Sonic already, nobody was going to drop $350 just to play a new sonic game in 1996.

>>11944924
Nintendo learned from Sega's mistake. Always have your mascot character have a game ready for launch.

>>11945303
>Nintendo learned from Sega's mistake
Yeah, about that...

>>11944341
>the 32X and Saturn
Why do you keep pushing this meme? The Saturn was like 6 times more expensive to make that the 32x.

The 32x, the Sega Nomad, the Sega Mega Jet, the Sega CD, the Sega Mega Karaoke, and the Sega CDX were all failures. But their losses were NOTHING in comparison to the financial losses caused by the Sega Saturn.

Sega dumped around $1.5 billion dollars into the Saturn console hoping it would succeed. Way more money than Sega spent creating previous consoles like the Sega Genesis or Master system. I need you to understand that the "money pit" you talk about...was caused *entirely* by the massive failure of the Sega Saturn. This system's failure crippled the company.

>>11945317
An average mascot game is better than no mascot game. Where's Sonic on Saturn? Lmao.

>>11945320
Not him but the string of failures did hurt Sega's reputation which contributed to the failure of the Saturn. After getting burned by the 32x I never purchased another system from Sega.

>>11942616
What a low effort cope

>>11942657
NTA but I don't think any 6th gen was a failure. Microsoft entered the market, ps2 won and Nintendo made money. It's the weirdest console war since most people are going to play multiplats on them anyway

>>11945343
Nintendo only made money at the time because of the GBA, the gamecube did end up being a good investment though because they modified it into the wii.

>>11942608
Hmmm must have been the fact the PS2 had a lot of games people really wanted. Xbox figured this out too starting off with DOA3 and many other titles, but Sega and Nintendo struggled here! Dreamcast sadly put Sega out of the console business.

>>11945350
Nintendo initially sold GameCube consoles at profit. It got severely cost reduced over time, but Nintendo wasn't worried about going bankrupt over it.

>>11945350
Fair

>>11945363
gamecube swiftly had to enter unprofitable territory because nobody was buying it, not even at $50.

>>11945363
When you factor in marketing, R&D and the early price cut, the Gamecube broke even at most.

ofc the dreamcast was sega just delaying the inevitable, but theoretically how many consoles would they had to have sold to get out of their debt hole? 40 mln? 50?

>>11945491
According to Peter Moore the Dreamcast needed to sell 5 million units in 2000 to remain viable. However, this number was based off the systems current 8 game attach rate which was about to sharply decrease because the Dreamcast's anti piracy was completely broken around that time. The console itself was sold for a loss and selling more units wouldn't have actually helped Sega if people were just copying games.

>>11945338
>Not him but the string of failures did hurt Sega's reputation which contributed to the failure of the Saturn. After getting burned by the 32x I never purchased another system from Sega.

True. I will agree with you there. You have a point. All those add-on failures did hurt Sega's reputation. There's a hidden cost to failure that isn't just financial loss. Reputation is important too.

>>11945350
I believe a few Nintendo Executivea said they never sell consoles at a loss. Their focus is to use hardware that is cheaper, and focus on the quality of the games.

There are also some behind the scenes interviews on YouTube where design Engineers who worked on the Nintendo 64 talk about how they got into arguments with Nintendo about how many metal screws they could cut out of the console case, and how thin they could make the plastic. The design engineers had to constantly push back against Nintendo because otherwise the case would be too fragile. Nintendo was THAT obsessed about cutting costs.

>>11945536
In 2003 Nintendo dropped the price to $99 which was less than it cost to make the system. Not retro but after the price cut the 3DS was also sold at a loss. You also have to remember that unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo only makes videogames and can not afford to take losses in the videogame division to "buy" marketshare like its competitors. I love the gamecube, but it was objectively a failure for Nintendo.

>>11941924
Are you for real? The Dreamcast had the best launch line-up of all-time.

>>11942109
Yup. Didn't help the PS2 install base the slightest.

>>11945536
Curious, given how many jokes has been said over three decades about Nintendo 64 supposedly being indestructible.

>>11942912
Israel was not a thing until the 60s.

>>11945317
Kino game, people don’t appreciate what Nintendo was trying to do with the GameCube.

>>11945536
Nintendo is the jewiest company in Japan. I’m glad Sony pushed them out of the console market. And no, the switch is not an argument.

>>11943934
And? We're talking about sales bitch tits

>>11942778
And? The ds sold more than the psp but that doesn't mean the psp failed moron.

>>11942616
SOULvelware.

>>11947893
Based and correct pilled
>and I'll add I liked the first year runs for XBOX, GC and DC, the 6th gen really doesn't have a bad system

>>11945835
>rovert posting in /vr/
The behavioral sink and lack of thread quality is making more sense now

>>11941831 (OP)
>give the dreamcast a dvd player
>make it more expensive
>people wait for the ps2 because what's the point of a dreamcast when the ps2 is also gonna have a dvd player
>dreamcast dies again

>>11943934
>Anon the sports games were the crown jewel of the dreamcast.
Nobody cares about quality of sports games if they hit the baseline. On PS2 PES was consistently lauded as superior to FIFA, yet sales showed that's less important than the licenses.

>>11941919
Nintendo exclusives
System designed to sell at a profit
No crazy debits from failed systems

>>11942015
>Me when switching out cds while playing Vigilante 8.

>>11942115
Sonic R was a shit racer.
Sonic 3D blast wasn't a proper sonic game and sucked.
Sonic Jam was just a port with 3d demo land and cool extras.

People wanted a proper sonic game/Sonic Adventure on the system.

>>11942436
Melee is the most competitive but has a problem with drama, autism, and diddlers. The director of Smash doubled down on being anti-competitive with future installments as his vision was just fun party game and nothing else.

>>11942721
Switch. GC is more consistent as it retains its same player base and almost always gets a decent amount of players when a Smash tournament is had. The new installment of the day beats it out however. Neither is really a main game in e-sports because Nintendo does shit to promote it and the drama shit always gets smash banned from big fighter tournaments.

>>11948838
The competitive playerbase for Smash has completely ruined any hope of Smash being considered a viable pro game. All those compilations of smash players raging and breaking controllers on YouTube is just hilarious and sad. I'm almost 100% certain the Director of Smash watched those videos and became disgusted. Which is why he went so hard on removing elements in later games that competitive smash players.

>>11941853
It got the NFL 2K series which was better as far as just playing football goes. The 2k series gained such a following that it made EA shell out big bucks to get soul rights to NFL games.

>>11941920
why do you guys always say SA2 is the last game like battle and advance didn't get released 4 months after the dreamcast

>>11941910

no, they didnt. Dvd players were still around $250 for a typical one from Sony that wasn't a changer, and had no features like component, or 5.1 audio outputs.

the AI you ask this question is wrong and is referencing bullshit user posts.

and they were not in most people's living rooms. Non Shit brands in VCRs were only just reaching the magic $100 spot by that time.

>>11941910
This shows the difference in price, at least in Canada. DVD players were much, MUCH cheaper.

>>11949392
I remember that Prices of DVD players fell incredibly fast in the span of 2 years. I remember by around 2003/2004, everyone had an extra DVD player in their homes. They didn't need a PS2 any more to play DVDs.

>>11941910
Holy zoomie

>>11945752
Are you fucking with me? There are exactly three good games on that fucking table.

>>11945752
I hope you aren't the guy who shits on tbe ps2 launch lineup

>>11945835
Anon, EA got exclusivity rights to the NFL because the sales of nfl 2k/ESPN games were closing the gap. Madden being on dreamcast wouldn't have helped the company, the fact that the 2k games played more like actual football was a reason to buy a dreamcast over Sony's shit QB club/Madden and gameday offerings.

>>11950193
I see 4. Blue Stinger, Soul Calibur, House of the Dead 2 and Power Stone.

>>11942436
yeah, and the dreamcast had the definitive version of tony hawk and a shitload of other titles

>>11945752
>>11950251
Are we grading these as
>good games
Or
>good games for a launch title. Because if it's the former I don't know if there are more that 5 I'd consider good

>>11942436
>ultimate version of the game?
For the competitive scene, yes. For everyone else, no.

>>11941831 (OP)
Wouldn't save it, Saturn and 32X caused too much damage by that point.

>>11941839
The DVD player was literally the only thing helped PS2 win, games were literally better and ran better on DC
>>11941853
Madden wasn't that big of a deal back then. The 2k sports series was by far the best, which is why NBA 2k still is going

>>11941910
Thats because the end results were obvious. The "novelty" of DVD that you brought up is straight bullshit. I remember dudes buying a PS2 solely to watch The Matrix on DVD, they didn't even give a fuck about games

>>11949567
>>11945759
I dont understand why little kids who probably weren't even alive at this time say ridiculous shit like this.
>d00d everyone had multiple DVD players in 2004
Fucking stupid I grew up upper middle class too.

>>11951414
>little kids

>>11951440
Try and link that post. DVD players weren't cheap until Bluray was around the corner

>>11951443
True.
I paid $300 for a DVD player in 2004. I bought one for my grandma for $250 in 2005. It wasn't until the release of the PS3 that DVD players became cheaper.

>>11951443
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/apex-1500-dvd-player-clearance-40-00-at-wal-mart.831692/

>>11951448
Its what happen when little children try and act like theyre older on the internet

https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1999_radioshack_catalog.html

Here's a radishak catalog from 99, the only DVD player available was $4-500. The Fast and The Furiois came out in 2001 and THEY WERE STILL FUCKING SELLING VHS PLAYERS AS BIG TICKET ITEMS

>>11951456
>>11951452

>>11951452
Ah yes, the APEX players that caused legal battles over copyright infringement and many others
https://www.wired.com/2000/03/dvd-player-at-apex-of-controversy/

This was the equivalent to buying Bluetooth headphones on Alibaba for $3

>>11951456
1999 != 2002
>>11951473
shameless cope

>>11942546
By 2001, around 50% of US households owned a DVD player.

>>11951498
Now cut that in half
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2001/10/14/dvd-rising/

>>11951481
Youre bringing up a fraud company
https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-price-is-wrong

Just admit you were a baby in 2002

Sears 2002 Christmas catalog

>>11951414
>Fucking stupid I grew up upper middle class too.
Lmao. Did you never shop at Walmart or Circuit City? Cheap DVD players were everywhere in 2004.

Nice LARP. But if you are going to pretend to be an "old man", then get your facts right next time. Do better research. You aren't going to fool people like me who were adults in 2004.

People here don't realize how much the market got flooded with cheap DVD players between 2002 and 2006. DVD players were EVERYWHERE. They weren't luxury items anymore like in 1999. Companies wanted to make DVD the new standard and pushed hard to make cheap DVD players. They wanted multiple DVD players on every house.

>>11951518
Just bringing a fact that in 2002 DVD players were already very cheap.

>>11951521
Sony DVD players were top tier. They had a luxurious feel.
Now try the poorfags ones (like your famility had)

>>11942545
Gungrave is a fun game, but boy, would I be pissed if I spent $50 on it instead of any of these other games. It was very short.

>>11951661
I guess if you were a real arcade-type you could spend a lot of time trying to full combo all the levels. I really wanted to beat Overdose on the highest difficulty but I was so fucking sick of mashing the square button by the end of the second highest difficulty that I just called it a day.

Praise the lord, fellow sodomites, for I'm uncovering the truths here. Them dirty philistines took Sega's jew button away. This is what canonically killed Sega.
>In 1992, Sega applied for a Japanese patent involving an innovative feature they developed for Virtua Racing: changing the 3D camera viewpoint with the press of a button. Sega also used the feature in later games such as Daytona USA. It took five years for the patent to process before the patent was successfully granted to Sega in 1997. By that time, camera change buttons had become a common feature in 3D video games. This would mean Sega could earn royalties from 3D video games that used a camera change button feature.
>Due to being a common feature used in many 3D video games, Sega received royalties from other companies using the feature in their games, both in Japan and internationally. Atari, for example, paid Sega royalties for using the feature in Atari Jaguar games. Sega also successfully took legal action against Nintendo, among other companies, for using the feature in their games. In the late 1990s, Nintendo and Sony Computer Entertainment decided to work together to challenge Sega's patent in Japanese courts. They found that the 3D camera change button feature of Virtua Racing was used in an earlier title, Star Wars: Attack on the Death Star, a Star Wars video game developed by Japanese company M.N.M Software (later called Mindware) for the Sharp X68000 computer and released exclusively for the Japanese market in 1991. That game's development was led by Mikito Ichikawa, who attended court to testify. Sega's patent was eventually revoked as a result of Ichikawa's testimony, but Ichikawa himself never received any compensation from Nintendo or other companies.

>>11942912
posting unrelated long-winded political shit outside of /pol/ should be punishable by death

>>11943903
the anon you replied to wasn't alive when sega was in the console market

>>11948252
>PES
>FIFA
these two were the only TWO games that mattered in 6thgen along GTA saga.

>>11951740
>All wrong.
Hideo Kojima invented camera.

>>11941853
Lol you think normies bought a PS2 for Madden and other sports slop?
Sure helped the N64 beat the PSX

>>11941919
3rd place isn't succeeding
Bet you thought the WiiU was great

Why were EA such dicks about supporting the Dreamcast? Their games were huge on the Sega Genesis.

>>11942436
Melee sold 2 million more than than the first game
While a success, this isn't much of a margin or push to make the GCN a big success.

In fact, Smash didn't become a real system mover until the Wii, where they gone back and added guest characters and catered to LotR normies.

>>11950357
The game was lauded as a deluxe version of 64 in Japan, which was pretty precise considering the jump was large at the time .

>>11942517
The Switch made turds like Xenogay and Paper Mario Sticker King a huge success.
If Ultimate was on GCN, it would have done worse due to its terrible single player and broadband features

>>11948846
So basically you're saying if Melee 2 was a thing, it'd be forefronted success solely because it's the current game on a larger platform.

>>11948838
>Sonic 3D blast wasn't a proper sonic game and sucked
It was based, unlike the turd pile Americans were trying to cook up at the time.

>>11949227
>Which is why he went so hard on [FANFICTION]
Except the games, since 4, leaned more to the middle ground per game. Even made a little "intensity chart" on Smash gameplay on that with Melee being the "most instense" of the 5 games.

Sakurai isn't a big fan of eSports (and rightfully so) but he also believes Smash can be something pro players can still enjoy without the CLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACK or $$$$$$$$$$$$.

>>11951521
Had one of those, i miss orb shaped radios

>>11945320
>The Saturn was like 6 times more expensive to make that the 32x
and the experts at SoA still thought people will fork out $499 for a weeb machine.

MEANWHILE Sony was going to do the same shit but someone figured a cheaper price would not only get more people to buy it but BTFO Sega in the process in a way of poetic revenge.
The genius behind the $299 still got fired by the process.

>>11952497
I'm 100% certain Sakurai is NOT happy with compilation videos on YouTube of Smash players destroying controllers in public and swearing. And these videos have millions of views.

>>11945804
All Nintendo did was fused their form factors and suddenly Xbox and Sony are dipping their toes to being 3rd party publishers.
Sounds like an uno reverse card to me.

>>11952508
>and the experts at SoA still thought people will fork out $499 for a weeb machine.
Are you stupid? The Saturn's creation, development, and marketing were completely handled by Sega of Japan. They ignored everything SoA suggested.

SoA wanted Sega to partner with Sony and make a console together. SoJ said no.

SoA suggested focusing on designing a console specifically for 3D games. SoJ said no and pushed forward with 2D development.

SoA suggested that the console be developer friendly and simple to create games for. SoJ said no and made their crazy hardware with multiple underpowered CPUs working together.

>>11952461
They were still pissy over SEGA over their last fall out and they basically plotted against them with Sony.

Somehow they still were in good enough terms to make a terrible sonic rpg with legal consequences out of nowhere.

>>11952514
He never saw those, but he's definitely aware of eSporters trying to act like WWE with their public stunts, hence the distancing.
I mean, he still appear in japanese Smash tournaments, which are way better than the west scene.

>>11952525
>SoA wanted Sega to partner with Sony and make a console together. SoJ said no.
Good, their ninjas saw their grimy first deal with Nintendo, so they immediately told Ken to fuck off for being too benevolent.

>>11952536
>He never saw those
They videos been shared on Twitter with Japanese users. I'm pretty sure Nintendo has seen it.

>>11941996
I played both DX and the original a good decade before anyone whined about the differences and thought DX looked like a true 6th gen game while the Dreamcast version looked 5.5th gen.
>B-B-B-B-B-B-B-BUT THE CARTOON ANIMALS ARE TOO SHINY!!!!!
Kill yourself.

>>11942013
Notice how no one ever answers this

>>11942013
>>11952563
I can answer, the Playstation launched in 1994 and the DVD player launched in 1996, hope this little history lesson helps you zoomies

>>11945845
It only succeeded in that it did not bankrupt the company. The Gamecube failed to capture its target audience and only sold as well as it did because it was dirt cheap. It's lack of 3rd party support really hampered it. Even at the time I don't think I had more than 8 games for the system and half of those were just the RE games.

>>11952549
besides the character models and water shader, they made the graphics worse across the board, and it only looks "better" because they desaturated the colors to look more realistic. wow it's like i'm playing halo!
all the "improvements" are half-assed and introduce obvious drawbacks like the emerald coast water no longer animating correctly, the window reflections and CGs all showing the old dreamcast graphics, and somehow they fistfucked the sound quality and the ring collecting sound is now obviously the wrong pitch.
the increased framerate cap is good on paper but the framerate is now far less consistent than on dreamcast and the game virtually never runs smoothly, they also couldn't fix cutscenes being capped at 30 because the game's programming is spaghetti.
it's a very low quality sidegrade at best, the only reason i imagine someone would really like it, besides pure nostalgia, is if they really hate the original stubby dreamcast character models and like the modernized designs.

>>11941910
>Most people already had one in their living room
Rich kid detected

>>11951401
>games were literally better and ran better on DC
this nigga thinks the dc could have ran mgs3 or gta san andreas

>>11941831 (OP)
Wasnt the dreamcast shadow dropped and part of the reason it flopped was because certain retailers refused to stock it at any point in its life because of the shadow drop

>>11952932
no, you're thinking of the saturn.