Thread 11947607

Let's discuss about the shmup genre; either vertical or horizontal scrolling shmups and either traditional or danmaku shmups. Space Harrier clones and rail shooters are also welcome

Welcome back shmuppers.

The finger I use to hold/press repeatedly the fire button has been hurting for two days.
Man.

>>11947689
Time to switch to using your feet.

In this thread we'll try to beat... Salamander!
I think it's a simple game, yet it has enough difficulty spikes to keep it interesting. So, I encourage (You) to try this cool title, whether you clear it or not

>>11947728
I have to be honest, your video isn't inspiring me to play the game, it does the opposite in fact.

>>11947861
Not >>11947728

But Just know that my friend is a BS move they pull right after you beat the last boss. The game is really, really easy (like piss easy).
If the ground lasers RNG isn’t too catastrophic (and it shouldn’t be in loop 1), you’ll still have plenty of lives by the end of stage 6. You should try the game it’s brain-dead fun and it loops infinitely.

jarpig can't compete with s.t.g

>>11948434
Schizo shit

I really need to let down dragon spirit, I absolutly love the game, but I need to get others games. Maybe Mad shark or Image fight (to step up the game) if you have a reccomendation please do.
>>11948434
Stop it ricardo.

>>11948434
Cool documentary here. There's a few exceptions that the average jarpig dislikes like SMT: Nocturne and Unlimited Saga, but otherwise he's completely right

>>11948434
Go back to /vg-- oh wait
Go back to Discord

What makes this game so special?

>>11947728
which version?

>>11947607 (OP)
This image looks very outdated

>>11949192
A few things
Danmaku was still relatively new and not too divorced from traditional design, DOJ combined both while making sure to put emphasis of its style. Also, it's a proper sequel to a game that was already liked enough, DDP. I would say it's when it stopped being that one niche thing one company does and established itself as an actual variation of the genre.
It got a reputation for being a very difficult game because honestly, not many things were comparable to beating Hibachi in the original version back then.
Supposedly had different famous shmup devs behind it. Including for audio and video aspects. And it feels pretty unique for a game that's just another shmup with military aesthetics.

>>11949267
There's a lot of past tense in there, but people still praise this game even now. What makes it so good even compared to the games that came out for 23 years since?

>>11949279
For now I think what holds up is the first aspect about combining CAVE's take on the genre with more traditional elements. Most games don't do that, or it doesn't come out as well made as DOJ.
Still, it's definitely carried by its reputation as a classic.

i would put ketsui on a par with d.o.j those games were peak old cave before all the silly games with fairies and bugs that look like donkey kong country graphics. both pack a hefty challenge even just to complete the first loop. and as for the games that came after 2010 just had horrible graphics like phone games ,floaty controls and backrounds that give you motion sickness . the kinda stuff you see on steam nowadays all the time

>>11949332
>i would put ketsui on a par with d.o.j
Yeah, if Ketsui came first it would be the one considered a huge classic.
That said, I have no issue with Mushi and cute 'em up stuff is literally older than CAVE itself.

>>11949279
>>11949301
Great explanation personally I prefer DDP over DoJ.
What's nice about these games is that they don't beat around the bush. You have the chaining, bees, maximum bonus and survival that's it. What I truly dislike about some games in the genre is when they are packed to the brim with this asinine shit such as bombing the first stage boss three times to get the "DEFEND THE HOUSE BONUS" bla bla milking every boss for 15 minutes etc.

>>11949359
Ketsui is a huge classic, it failed to reach DoJ levels because the game lacked a proper home port for many many years.
Also another case of a game that doesn't fuck around with asinine shit.

>>11949383
>Was completely out of the loop with the whole exa arcadia thing
>Wait what Air Gallet "EXA Label", Fixeight "EXA Label"
DoDonPachi 1997 by M2 never ever, it will be will be exclusive to this shit
Still its kind of cool that they, I assume improved a game that didn't exactly do wonders in the arcades like AirGallet. On the other hand it feels like this frankensteins monster abomination outside of the artist Junya Inoue who even worked on the gameplay?
Hell the game isn't even presented properly since EX Arcadia output 15khz

>>11949383
defend the house bonus is based though.
also, you don't need to bomb. You can sacrifice a life to get it.

Last thread include arcade games as well, can we discuss them here?
Been having a blast trying to 1CC Shinobi recently, don't know how people get filtered by it so much.

>>11949663
Sure I guess. But expect people to mostly focus on shmup discussion, and probably not play every other arcade genre.

Just as long as it's actually discussion and not "man le zoomies just can't handle shmups am I right guys" circlejerking like last time

>>11949668
Spotted the zoomer who can't handle shmups

>>11949707
Yeah garbage posts like that and >>11948434 completely ruin the threads

Bored, have a random DOJ clean dodge clip I just made.
https://streamable.com/a3l4uy

>>11947728
>mega man 2 lasers except it's a shmup
i think i'll pass

>>11949193
Either version D or J

What do you do to keep yourself motivated?

>>11950292
I fantasize about flying to Japan, playing on an arcade cabinet, and impressing all the aging salarymen watching me.

>>11950302
Kek
Wish I could do that without the flying to Japan part

I'm trying to do aero fighters 2 for my first 1cc because it feels pretty approachable. Any tips? I've been playing for a week and can only get about 3/4ths of the way through on one credit

>>11950403
I'm pretty sure Sonic Wings 3 is more accesible, but still go for it!
Whity/Spanky seems like a solid ship to start with

>>11947689
I learned how to claw for face buttons because of this, it's very good for your hand health to be able to switch it up and you won't take a performance hit after a week

>>11947689
>>11951291
The real solution is to just get a more ergonomic setup. Get a keyboard with extremely light actuation force so you don't have to press so hard.

>>11947607 (OP)
Some of these I know I recognize but I can't place.
And fuck the generic jet looking ones, who knows

>>11950302
When I imagine is scenario in my head I get clipped by the first bullet in stage 1 and imagine the pissed off nips muttering about gaijin under their breath.

>>11949332
I like the bugs, it's my favorite aesthetic in a shooter.
Deathsmiles is more if a mixed bag, some of that shit is downright ugly. The way everything including bullets look in dfk and sdoj I'm not a fan of.

I grew up playing mostly console shmups, they're so comfy to me.

>>11951924
Yeah but then you clear the game on your next life

>>11951656
Indeed, both my keyboard and controllers have hard buttons. The advantage is that it can last you a long time, but if you play too much your fingers are going to hurt eventually.

>>11951694
the one in front of X-Multiply is Aleste

>>11951694
DAMN I think the one I labeled as R-Type Leo is actually from that SNES game Phalanx

>>11952204
Slap Fight MD behind the Phalanx ship

>>11952204
Starblade in front of Raiden

>>11951694

the one above Salamaner and Rtype is the Ship from Starblade (geosword?).
>inb4 (not a shmup) because I agree.

I think I'm at my limit. Most of these are so generic I can't begin to guess what random PCE game they are from

>>11952257
>>11952320

fuck didnt see this, was replaying while i scrolled down, lol

as penance, top right orange one is Last Resort (Neo Geo)

>>11947607 (OP)
The first vertically-scrolling arcade shooter by Namco was Xevious, released in 1982 by Masanobu Endō part of pic related which includes my favorite and for me most correcr versions of galga and galaxians down to the correct distinctive firing sound of galaxians. After space invaders galaxians was probably my favorite classic vertical shoot up up until 1942 came along in the arcades. My favorite classic horzontals are in order, defender, scramble amd r-type. Honorable mentions to galga, phoenix and tempest. While I appreciate games like psyvariar and deathsmiles, ikaruga, galaga legions etc more modern efforts, the screen of movement for me never watched the clean simplicity of space invaders with its base sound or the wonderful galaxians. My favorite ports are typically to the spectrum because I admire the skill in coding for small memory systems, so ports like z spectrum R-Type, pheenix and penetrator, although the best Taito and Capcom ports for material like space invaders and 1942, 1943 are for the PS2, the best namco is pic related as is the same platform for the best midway

If I have to mention a game that some of you may not have prayed and is mislabeled as a platformer, it would be baraduke

>>11952321
Behind X-Multiply is Argus

>>11952323
Yeah! I knew I recognized it

game ad for ports of activisions game river raid from 1984 not mentioned much these days but like its isometric evolution zaxxon a foundational game in the genre building on xevious

>>11949332
I noticed a change in about 2000 where never versions of for example galaga arrangement 2005 release that were ridiculously easy compared to the originals. Games were becoming easier and less clean and this had become clear with games like Psyvariar although a good hame the screen is now very cluttered

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDN-27kCUII

This thing was fucking amazing for 1981, Astro Wars by Grandstand (1981)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loYh_MStba0

>>11952321
sqoon next to in the hunt

>>11948434
If anyone is able to complete RPGs, why did the Japanese audiance complain about the difficulty in every Famicom Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Mother and Megami Tensei?

>>11952321

Between Hector and 1941 is Space Megaforce/Super Aleste

>>11952321
Biplane with the bird at right bottom is Sky Kid.
Top left ship might be Psychosis/Paranoia for PCE, pic related.

>>11950403
The last stage gets pretty rough so good luck with that

>>11952742
Wow never even heard of that one
>>11952778
Daggumit, I looked right at Space Megaforce to check if it was on there but didn't notice it.
>>11952797
I forgot all about labeling Sky Kid
Glad you recognized Paranoia-- I didn't and it was driving me crazy

The ones in front and behind ImageFight look super familiar but I can't place them. i know it'll irritate me when they do get identified

>>11952836
God it was so late when I was looking at this last night, I somehow missed Batsugun . HOW?

>>11952321
Top right above Grind Stormer looks like the B-Wings ship to me.

>>11952321
Are there people who are fans of shmups like these instead of CAVE or something?

>>11952927
Me
t. CAVEfag

>>11952901
I think you're right basing it off the sprite.
The art is way off

>>11952927
that falcon on an airplane should be easy as hell to find

>>11952942
B-Wings was one of the first games I've ever played, in one of those NES multicarts. That game sucks, I recognized it instantly. It just took me some searching to remember the name. I think some of the unidentified games might be NES or portable shmups.

>>11952321
that falcon on an airplane should be easy as hell to find

>>11952927
Also me
t. another CAVEfag

Seriously though, traditional shmups are fine and all, I like some of them above most CAVE games, but the latter is a fucking drug. You keep coming back for more even after your 1ccs

So that one below Galaxian is obviously some version of the Galaga ship but the other one looks more like the original. What the heck other Galaga is there?

>>11952976

The one you have as DoDonPachi is actually Soldier Blade, I think.

>>11952976
Top left, above Image Fight, looks like the Zanac ship to me. It has the same pattern on the back and the only difference is the front, but if you look at the sprite in game it has the same front and you could argue the camera angle in this cover is hiding it.

>>11952942
I forgot to mention that a big gimmick with B-Wing is that you change your ship's wings. I recognized the bell shaped wing, the box art uses a different one. Box art is still way off though.

>>11953208
>>11952976
Here's the sprite

>>11953208

That one is definitely Zanac, it has the fairy power-up you can find in the game next to it.

Zanac ship after Paranoia (little fairy is cute)
>>11953208 Hyper Zone on SFC (looks nothing like the PAL/NA version) Next to Image Fight you have ingame Space Manbow.
Guardian Legend between Thunder Force and After Burner
Fat little Gyruss ship behind Silpheed
Just under it's Galaxian3 on PS1
Physical Fighter between Silpheed and Starblade
>>11953180
My nubian friend ! and just under you have Star Soldier Star Cruiser under Tatsujin

Can't recognize the orange thing, the pancake under 1941

Anyway thanks ! this reminds me when /vr/ was just a couple of weeks young and I designed the first Shmup general mosaic with all the cover art on it. (gonna try to find it on my archives)

>>11953230
I don't think that's Gyruss. The sprite has the wings at a downwards angle and the art is more colorful, it doesn't resemble either.

>>11953279
he clearly based his drawing from this

>>11953303
I see, that makes sense. It's funny how these old shooters have no consistency between the sprites on different ports and multiple different title and box arts. The same ship can end up looking wildly different. Reminds me of the bad box art Mega Man situation in a way

>>11953320
Space Manbow artwork btw (the player ship is insignifiant)
even on arcade flyewrs it's the same.

>>11953320
Ok when you said that, I remembered something. Over Horizon on NES has like 3 different designs: one for the Japanese box art, one for the US box art, and one at the end of the game that looks absolutely not the same. But that orange thing in the art is definitely the ending version.

>>11952976
between viewpoint and last resort

>>11947728
I'm terrible at shmups so this game seemed pretty tough to me, but I'll post my newfag thoughts in case someone is considering giving it a try.
The game (or this release at least) has autofire on both buttons. I played the PSP release called Salamander Portable, which lets you set the display to the original ratio without scaling/blur. Left the difficulty at default, but I eventually increased the lives per credit since it also increases the max lives.
There are a few parts where memorization is needed to live, like the horizontal part with giant fireballs, or asteroid traps on a vertical level, or the gates at the end in the post's video, but for the most part it just felt like a traditional asskicking to me. Some parts seemed to drastically change in difficulty between plays for some reason, such as the big sun dragon sometimes just totally encircling you. Several of the bosses appeared to kill themselves in embarrassment at my poor performance.
This game really rewards not dying. Being fully armed with powerups vs having nothing is easily the difference between breezing through and being totally fucked, especially once the difficulty gets going. Fortunately you can salvage the helper guys as long as you're playing further up the screen instead of hanging back, I appreciate the game trying to teach me not to play like a pussy. Still though, without decent firepower, there's a point you can't do dick against the wall of enemies. There's also one asshole whose only purpose seems to be to make the screen flash and hope you get a seizure.
The first time I got to the final level, I didn't manage to kill the giant red ball, so instead of getting the ending screen it just sent me back to solar land. Needless to say I didn't win that attempt.
Steep difficulty spikes, but enjoyable. I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it as much if I didn't have the extra lives to tank through Mr. Blueballs and see the rest of the game.

What's a good bullet hell for beginners? I've always wanted to get into them, but I get overwhelmed by the amount of bullets on screen

>>11954081
Like Dreamer
Batsugun Special Version
Mushihimesama (Steam version)
Giga Wing 1
Blue Revolver

There's just a few more
a Mystery Galaga ship (between Xevious and Galaga'88)
A fat pink cute'm up ship (behind Twinbee)
a cool little ship (in front of Moon Cresta)
a random jet (behind Zanac)
a retro looking fighter and some kind of pod-ship (below Truxton/Tatsujin)
and a weird squat ship (above In the Hunt)

>>11954081
You'll find that it's not as hard to dodge them as you think. The first couple stages of bullet hells tend to have very clear channels for you to move into in the bullets.

>>11954208
The one below Gunhed is probably Aldynes, but the colors are a bit off

>>11954303
>Aldynes
I think you may be right.
Anybody play this? Is it even good? Seems like a random pick to be in a collection like this

>>11954319
Only reason I even thought about it was because of that one Shmup Junkie video where he reviews every single PC Engine shmup ever.

>>11954208
I was randomly looking at box arts trying to find some of these ships and found pic related, above Gunhed. Thing is, apparently it's not even a shmup but some sort of RPG FPS thing for the FM Towns. So if you thought Aldynes was an obscure pick...

>>11954369
That's wild.
Who the heck made this image and how high were they!?

>>11954208
Capcom's first arcade game, Vulgus, is the weird squat ship below 1941
https://capcom.fandom.com/wiki/Vulgus

>>11954469
This is such a weight off my brain. I knew I'd seen it before. I knew it was an early game. I could just never seem to find it anywhere.
Hallelujah

I've tried a few shmups and bullet hells, but for some reason Einhänder is the first one that really clicked for me.

>>11947607 (OP)
>>>/vg/

nothing quite like fighting Ultraman Tiga and hearing this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUc0O3e5O80

I've been playing DOJ recently. It's highly regarded in these threads and elsewhere so I decided to pick it up and play it as my first shmup. I'm spamming save states and retries over and over. I've probably reset like 1,000 times in a few days.
It has made me wonder, when the games were brand new and only playable in the arcade, how much money would it cost to actually master the game sufficiently to clear, for example in the case of DOJ, the entire game including both loops? At 100 yen a pop, I'm already up to about $1K just to be able to barely beat stage 3.

>>11954637
now you understand why this genre is shit, it's only popularized by trannies with their cheating tools like save states

>>11952340
>>11949332
Holy shit lmfao shmupfags really are obnoxious and seething, insecure old people

So after watching Jaimers I realize that my ship control is absolute dogshit.

Do these superplayers have hacked roms where they just practice ship movement all day?

How do I achieve such spastic level of precision?

>>11954604
Similar thing for me. I've tried a million of them but the only one I really got into was R-Type Final. I 100% that damn thing

>>11954637
>DOJ as your first shmup
Scary. You are playing something intended for people who would find DDP too easy, which is already not easy unless you are already very much into shmups.
That should also answer your next question, you are comparing yourself with people who had years of experience, possibly decades.

>>11954714
If you are the same guy, read above.
No, there are no hacked ROMs intended only for movement practice, although superplayers do use emulator features to practice stage sections and bosses until they commit them to memory. If those aren't available for some reason, then the best alternative is to feed your way to what you want to practice then restart. Another cool trick I have heard about is intentionally not killing bosses so you can practice patterns for a longer time.

>>11954768
>If you are the same guy
Nah I'm not but thanks anyway dude! The speed and micro dodging precision is so insane. But i guess like it's just like master musicians.

>>11954772
>But i guess like it's just like master musicians.
Imo it's more accurate to compare shmups to an obstacle course. There are more ways around the obstacles, although if you want to clear the course with the least amount of mistakes you will definitely need to practice how to avoid them.

>>11954208
like I "tried to said here >>11953230 the red thing is fuzical fighter
also the star soldier is not the red ship (that super star soldier, but it's the ship underit (star soldier cesar)
Finally someone found the pancake ship! I know I knwo that lil fatso, volgus !
the only one missing was just behind ZANAC and it's Exerion.

>>11954474
>>11954208
Like I tried to say here >>11953230 : the red thing is Physical Fighter.
Also, the Star Soldier ship is not the red one (that’s Super Star Soldier), it’s the one under it (Star Soldier Caesar).

Finally someone found the pancake ship! I knew that lil fatso Volgus!
The only one missing was right behind Zanac, and it’s Exerion.

>>11954642
>>11954683
Me when im happy and having a good day

anyone else cannot stand boghog and mork?

>>11955043
There's no such game called "Physical fighter"

That clearly says Fuzzical Fighter

>>11954208
>a Mystery Galaga ship (between Xevious and Galaga'88)
the OG ship from 1981

>>11955682
Stop whining, I said I “tried.”
I always remembered the game by the name Physical Fighter.
>>11955721
nice, so everything was found. good work.

>>11955721
this illustration seems to be from a model kit, which is the only real evidence of this design I can find. There doesnt seem to be a game with it

>>11955791
there's still the jet at the top

>>11955819
found it here, it's exerion.
>>11955043

Right on!
That's every ship identified!

Are any of the shmup Steam ports worth the time?

>>11955853
OP (faggot) here
Great job shmiggas, I'm saving this

Oops, forgot to label the weird Galaga model kit ship

>>11955791
>>11955868
>so everything was found
So what do we do now? I feel empty...

>>11955872
Play shmups

>>11955882
ew no

>>11947728
The webm reminds me of that one stage from Ikaruga.

>>11956131
I thought the same thing.

>>11955437
At first I thought these were games I hadn't heard of, but after a web search they appear to be internet personalities.

I find their existence to be irrelevant to my enjoyment of the shmup genre. I will continue as I was before I saw your post.

Why would you fixate on something which has no necessary relation to your state of being and actively makes your life worse my doing so?

Anyway, my lunch break is over.

>>11955872

>what do we do now?

argue over how many of them aren't shmups
Starblade

>>11957317
Starfox and After Burner sure as shit aint

>13 hours
>0 1cc
bros i'm getting sick of gradius JP arcade. Feels like the only reason I ever die is either due to pilot error or not noticing a bullet coming from the back or side (pilot error). Recovery doesn't feel so bad in most levels though. All of the checkpoints in level 4 feel terrible but level 3 feels really doable with just speed 2. I thought I could knock out a 1cc pretty quickly like with Thunderforce 3 but I keep dying to random shit even when full powered. Do you guys just drop a game when you start to lose interest in the 1cc? I just want to be prepared to impress friends next time we go to an arcade...

>>11957339
Only spend time in games that you really like.

>>11957332
I agree but it always leads to shitflinging over the term. At least they both have some direct control of the player ship, starblade is just a cursor, its closer to Virtua cop than a shmup.

>>11957860
Even if I can’t consider those games shmups.
You need to play Starblade on its cabinet to really appreciate it.
Same for After Burner, even on MD or SS, if you have the Cyber Stick you’ll enjoy the game way more.

Starfox is just a shitty tech demo with garbage framerate.

Any /vr/ shmups with a similar feeling to Eschatos/Judgement Silversword?
Compile games?

>>11957879

I did, at the time (yes i'm old). It was glorious, massive domed screen, booming sound, radio chatter. Absolutely great experience for the time. Pretty shat today without the cab though.
on the contrary, I never liked afterburner or space harrier, even with the currect cab. (visually great though)

I have had the goal of 1CCing DoDonPachi for over a year now. While I haven't achieved it yet, I am still having a lot of fun with the game. That's what I call reply value!

By the way, I'm still trying to 1cc this stuff.
Imagine seeing the EXTEND right before the final boss, genuinely thought this was THE run. How close do I have to get before I can seal the deal?

>>11960649
>cheating
why bother?

>>11960651
There is no cheating here

>>11960652
>hud overlay showing boss HP and timer
okay, however you autists wanna cope

might as well just have a memory view open and hitbox viewer, macro all the moves, lower the cpu speed

>>11960656
You don't watch that stuff during gameplay, it's there to look cool.

Ded bread so more Yagawatism. Did another run, ended in pretty much the same way.

Is this specific overlap at the end of the clip even possible?
https://streamable.com/qitgbg
There is barely any space for how long the laser will chase you.

...

>>11961465
Sure, can't be worse than another round of evil green lasers trying to tear me 3 new butt holes.

>>11961443
I'm afraid the only solution will be building a time machine and prevent the guys at 8ing from ever playing a Taito shmup

>>11961553
lmao.
All I know is that after Batrider(and Garegga, but I didn't try 1cc there)(yet)(actually no fuck it) I'm going to need danmaku therapy.

>>11955437
Bog seems pretty knowledgeable but a little abrasive and full of himself. Mark has good points but he's definitely a little retarded. Either way I enjoy their content, leagues ahead of any other YouTube reviewer but that's not saying much. Shmup Junkie is the true king of shmup content
>>11957342
>Really like hard ass games like Radiant Silvergun that I can't clear, don't care as much for manageable games like Blue Revolver
Such is a life

Anyone else play Zanac Neo? Feels like a good, fun first 1cc even if the pacing is kinda slow. Has a great soundtrack too

>>11947607 (OP)
Wow, so many shmup ships there. I recognize so many and also don't.

>Aleste
>Super Star Soldier
>Galaga 88
>Guardian Legend
>Gunhed/Blazing Lazers
Wow, nice.

>been away from shmups and mame especially for almost ten years
>always imagined they did some huge progress everywhere
>no, romset has been bloated up with random electronics and trash
>most systems like Sega Model 2 are still as broken as they were 10 years ago
Has Cave ever announced anything about why did they stop publishing Steam games?
There's Dodonpachi Resurrection and Mushihimesama but those are almost a decade old now.
Okay I can guess: they didn't sell enough. As simple as.

>>11963241
CAVE is on life support with gacha. And one of them is a 2hu one even.
It was basically over for non-indie shmups until a new Salamander game appeared in the M2 Gradius collection.

Correction: the HUD overlay isn't there to look cool, it's there to make me SEETHE at how close you were this time. Holy fucking shit what did I just do.

How do they decide which projectiles are blue and which ones are pink? Are there any rules or is it just random? Also why didn't these niggers do it in mushi where some random popcorn's stray bullet will get mixed into a big ass pattern and you don't see it coming?

>>11963672
Not random, but the rules aren't super strict either. Anyway, what they seem to be doing is:

pink
>aimed/ungrouped
>single fan spreads
>occasionally fired in a random angle
>main purpose is to kill you

blue
>part of a group
>larger spreads, blocks of bullets coming together, etc.
>pseudo-aimed
>main purpose is to limit your movement

>>11963241
Yeah, the 2018 steam sales leak reports they sold from 25k-40k each since their releases in 2015. Guess that just wasn't enough for CAVE.

>>11964315
Ain't that a good number for shmup standards?

>>11954081
I got into this genre about a week ago and decided to play the game people suggested is the most difficult (DOJ White Label) because it looked the most fun to play of ones I saw while also seeming to have some level of difficulty progression (stage 1 is incredibly easy, loop 1 is medium difficulty, loop 2 is incredibly hard). What I've learned is that no matter what of these bullet hell types of games you play, you will have to repeat stages and/or sections of stages over and over dozens or hundreds of times to commit them to memory before you can consistently clear them. So really, probably just pick one that seems like it has music/visuals/art/sound/gameplay that looks the most fun to you and play that, since you'll have to play for dozens or hundreds of hours to clear the game and if the game isn't fun you will get bored and give up.

I'm tearing my hair out. I can barely get to the end of stage 3 in training mode. Maybe I should stick to deathsmiles, that clear at least seemed feasible.

>>11965080
What game?

>>11965360
Mushihimesama. I can get there on maniac and normal, sometimes no miss but once I'm there it's hell. I always miss the micro on a bullet wave from the giant bug at some point. And that last part before the boss breaks me.

>>11965376
You have to make a save state at the point where it's causing you trouble then retry it until you can do it consistently.

>>11963502
>cheating
you'll never beat the game

>>11964791
>DOJ
>stage 1 is incredibly easy
Now you know that's just not true. Well, not the stage itself but Suzaku is perfectly able to take a life or bomb. Especially if you want the hypers by breaking his vents, these attacks he does afterwards are nasty.
>What I've learned is that no matter what of these bullet hell types of games you play, you will have to repeat stages and/or sections of stages over and over dozens or hundreds of times to commit them to memory before you can consistently clear them. So really, probably just pick one that seems like it has music/visuals/art/sound/gameplay that looks the most fun to you and play that, since you'll have to play for dozens or hundreds of hours to clear the game and if the game isn't fun you will get bored and give up.
Not just dannaku, that will be really the arcade experience in general foe anything that's not on the easy side. But yes, that's very correct about how you should pick games up and the fact that you need to become consistent through repetition.

There are at least 3 definite phases when it comes to attempting runs, regardless of what your objective might be(1cc, x-ALL, pure scoring, custom challenges like no miss etc.).

>Training phase
That's the one you start at when getting into a new game. Your current objective is simply to gain familiarity with things. This includes the "routing" aspect, playing the game to figure out what works and what doesn't in each stage, memorizing big threats, choosing a character if a game has that, etc.
Taking advantage of emulator tools or stage select in console ports is highly recommended here, if neither are available for some reason then just throw more credits in. Your goal is to play the game to understand it, nothing else.
How long this takes heavily depends on the game, your own experience with the genre, and your willingness to take some shortcuts(i.e. watching replays, reading wikis or the aforementioned features).

>Reinforcement and refinement phase
Acquire consistency. That's where you usually realize there is more room for improvement and you can do several adjustments based on your previous experience and what you generally find easier to repeat in each run. Typically in this phase you do full runs and start seeing the game in the context of your objective, as opposed to figuring out how to deal with each individual challenge. It doesn't take too much in my experience, make sure to keep an open mind on what you could do better.

>Formality phase
Just a few points short, just a few HP short on the final boss, just one tiny mistake that you could avoid 99% of the time. The actual achivement has become a formality, you can't claim it yet but the routing is there, the consistency is there, you got the skillz, now you just have to make it happen for reals.
In my experience this is the most annoying phase and can take a lot more time than expected, but don't let that sap your motivation. You know the infamous banana post? He definitely wrote it while in this phase.

>>11955868
It's beautiful, I will fap every day to this

So, was reading about DoDonPachi and apparently the designers thought that it would take at least 6 months for people to 1cc the game. Someone 1cc'd the game in one month.
Would be interesting to find out more and also, how much did that 1cc practice cost in total..

>>11965830
All it takes is one guy who buys the PCB and practices at home, or an operator willing to temporarily enable free play for reasons

>>11965838
This was in 1997 and it was brand new.

>>11965897
I know anon, you can still do both of these to severely reduce or possibly completely nullify the cost of practicing.

>>11950302
I was in Japan last year, went to an arcade and did exactly this. By exactly this I mean I sat down at a Battle Garegga cab next to an older, well dressed Japanese guy and proceeded to get raped on the first and second stages. This would’ve been fine except the volume was cranked to the max on my machine and I couldn’t figure out how to turn it down so all my death explosions were being broadcast at like 90db. This was around 1pm and we were the only two people in the little shmup section so there was barely any other noise to drown out my failures. Truly dishonorable shit. I didn’t recognize the game the guy was playing but he was damn good, I watched him play after I ran out of quarters and he didn’t die once.

Can anyone recommend me some really gory and violent shmups?

>>11966083
Do they even exist

>>11965505
Basically where I'm at, although I lab the stage as a whole each session. There are parts I figured out but that last part is so tight, I haven't got the trick to avoiding the bullets. I know I'll overcome it but man this has me shout in my room sometimes.

>>11966083
There's not really "violent" or even "gore" shmups, what there's a lot is horror shmups, like X-Multiply

>>11966083
Espgaluda II when you massacre the clones

>>11966083
Angel at Dusk, and the rest of Akiragoya games

>>11966083
Galshell and it's sequel might be, but IIRC they were really messed up. I mean I heard they were really competent shmups, but really twisted. The second in the series is on archive.org for sure.

>>11955437
i played bog's game and it wasn't very good so I don't take him seriously anymore. when i saw i beat mork's blue revolver score on the leaderboard i stopped taking mork seriously since i'm not even good at shmups.

>>11947607 (OP)
baf sucks and is a faggot

>>11966857
Shut up, baf

>>11965830
I 1cc'd it in 3 hours

>>11967584
Nice to see you here, Jaimers.

>>11966269
what's the bame of boghog's game?

You all need to post more progress, clips, and eventually clears/score of whatever you are playing. And if aren't playing, you need to start right now.

>>11968317
I'm a total beginner learning to play DOJ. So far I can get past stage 3 without dying sometimes. I can do the hard parts of stage 4 without dying in chunks using save states. I'll post a video when I clear the game if it makes you happy. Just don't expect it any time soon.

>>11968379
>save states
you didnt play the game

>>11968386
I played the game with and without save states. I used (and use) save states in order to repeatedly practice sections of the game over and over. This offers me the ability to master those sections of the game much more quickly than if I were to play the game "the normal way", i.e. just playing from the beginning and repeating sections I have already mastered just to get one chance at practicing the part I find more difficult.

>>11968392
>with save states
you didnt play the game

>>11968379
I'm sure anons told you already, but DOJ is pretty harsh for a beginner. It's going to take some training.
>I'll post a video when I clear the game if it makes you happy.
Sure, good luck.

>>11968392
Also feel free to ignore the autismo complaining about how people train. As long you do a run where you clear the game without any additional tools what happened before that is completely irrelevant.

>>11968286
gunvein. i only played the demo and didn't like it. try it yourself and decide how much you trust bog after

>>11968447
isn't that by an experienced shmup team and not only him though?

After sleeping on a horrific set of training sessions I got through stage 3 of mushi on one credit. It suddenly all clicked finally. I guess that's those neural connections being built. Gonna drill stage 4 now with the occasional refresher of 3 if I start having trouble again.

>>11968580
Cool, now do it consistently.
>I guess that's those neural connections being built.
Muscle memory builds up and allows you to focus on other things since you don't need to pay too much attention to what you already internalized.

>>11968586
I think I'll have plenty of fuck ups on the way to a full clear but stage 3 was my personal Vietnam for a while. I feel like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. I know with more practice, stage 3 will feel how stage 2 does. I'm feeling hopeful.

>>11968637
At least for me, it feels like that once you get past the first difficulty spike in CAVE stuff you will be dealing with the rest fairly quickly by comparison. Of course it helps that if you can clear 3 stages with minimal resource usage, you have plenty for the next two stages.

>>11968398
>practice mode
you didn't played the game

Imagine going to a musician and saying
>what? you practice a song in pieces instead of the whole thing every single attempt? and you do it slowly first? you didn't play the track
Or hell, every other performance you can think of, competitive activities included

>>11969143
>esl
you didn't make the post

>>11968317
Batrider clear any day now.
I'm super consistent at getting to the final boss, the problem is what happens after that.

Speaking of which, for somebody who isn't that much into Yagawa style of gameplay mechanics, my opinion of the game so far is mostly positive. But certainly not enough to make play Gayregga. play again, I mean

>>11968386
Why do you care when even the developers don't care how their games are played? They put all this QoL shit in the console ports on purpose because they know that their games are not properly balanced and designed for fair play. So much for that 'genius' arcade design.
I personally avoid using save states or practice modes because it helps to sort out the garbage (games like Battle Garegga, AC Salamander, Pink Sweets as an example, but there are many more).

>>11966083
Psyche Metal: The Bleeding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI7Mv7Q7oUU

>>11970642
Literally every single arcade game requires save states to practice any section properly, that has nothing to do with "fairness" or whatever games you arbitrarily call "garbage"

>>11970642
>>11971206
You two are both high as shit.
Adding QoL in modern console ports never meant the original was bad in any way, it's better than making you pay for a glorified emulator that plays one game
And save state/stage select practice is not really "required", there's just no reason to play stage 1 and 2 every time I want to just practice stage 3.

>>11971203
>uh, I wonder who bothered to clear the highest difficulty of such an unknown game
>see the green evaccaneer avatar
Obviously it's jaimers.
Also damn it's very bullet spammy.

What's the best way to play saidaioujou on PC in this day and age?

>>11971554
Xenia or one of the Switch emulators.
Arcade version works but from what I have heard they aren't emulated accurately in terms of slowdown.

GOD DAMMIT

>>11971262
You are so right, actually. I'm just frustrated and mentally ill.

Junis!

baf is a faggot

>>11971206
>Literally every single arcade game requires save states to practice any section properly
holy cope

you must really suck ass if you legitimately think this

cheating retard

It's cheating because I'm getting good at the game

>>11971941
yes literally cheating, no other faggots have this mindset besides emufags

no one save states dark souls no hit runs to practice
absolute shitter tier cope, just admit you suck and cant do anything without your cheats

Just 1cc'd Blazing Lazers but if you beat this game without a 1cc you clearly fucked up somewhere. It's set up so that if you beat, you'll probably 1cc it anyways and it's more difficult if you don't.

>>11971945
And what about shmup ports with practice modes?
That's cheating too if we follow your own rules

>>11971929
Indeed.

>>11954604
Square makes JRPG's, this is their first and maybe only attempt so maybe it has something to do with that. Companies that make nothing but shmups often stick to 1 distinct style and formula. Compile's 8 bit games are all very similar for instance (Aleste and Zanac) and so are their 16 bit games.

What are some shmups that are on the easier side? I've only ever beaten a handful of them, i'd say the hardest one I beat it Super R-Type and that took me 2 decades of playing it off and on.
>Tyrian 2000 (my fav)
>Zero Wing
>Darius Twin
>Thunder Force III
Pretty sure that's it. There's a couple others but they're not retro.

Where does Strikers 1945 I fit in terms of shmups difficulty?

>>11947607 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0Dt_RDxgm8

>>11965897
>This was in 1997 and it was brand new.
Yes and? You think nobody had a jamma compatible arcade cabinet in Japan of all places and superguns had already been established for years.

>>11971945
>Dark Souls
>>>/v/

>>11971945
....the reason is because no one plays dark souls no hit?

>>11948434
god I miss game one so much it's unreal, what's the source for this?

Alive?

The thing that demotivates me is reaching the last boss and getting raped. I'm at this point in two games: Vasara 1 and Deathsmiles. I have the ability to play the entire game without dying, but I haven't learned the last boss, and now I'm losing interest in the rest of the game, but I need to play it several times until I learn the last boss.
Note: at least the version of Deathsmiles I'm playing has a training mode, but Vasara doesn't.

>>11973878
Go learn the final boss too then.
it might still happen though

>>11972154
1-all clear or 2-all clear?

>>11949192
For me its the compensation of increasing the difficulty and improved framerate: its easier to dodge stuff but at the same time they made a more difficult game. The casual me gets a huge dopamine hit dodging shit on third and fourth stage

I think the possibility of 100% chaining through stages seems to be favored among fans and the laser spam is a whole new feature that feels like cheating at times but its not like the game will get cleared because of that

>>11973994
Stage 3 and 4 honest dodging you say?
https://streamable.com/bkcpjo
https://streamable.com/bkcpjo

>>11973994
Stage 3 and 4 honest dodging you say?
https://streamable.com/v2csho
https://streamable.com/bkcpjo
Whoops fucked up posting the links.

>>11947689
fuck, I felt the same way playing mega man recently.

just for clarification, this thread is for games like asteroid and gladius, right?

>>11974186
>gladius
*gradius

>>11974186
>>11974192
Yea.

>>11974171
Wild! Never managed to beat S3 without dying… my best was doing the boss without bombs on save state. Never beat S4 :(

>>11974413
iirc in all 1-ALLs I got of DOJ I actually died once at stage 3 boss every time.

>>11973978
Only the first loop. I don't consider the second loop of Psikyo games to be something that was really meant to be beaten. I don't think the developers even tested it properly.

>>11971997
Blazing Lazers has a nice difficulty curve, starts super slow but gets sort of brutal at the end. You might like it. Compile makes alot of games like that. Gun Nac on the NES is the same. Starts very slow and easy but gets crazy at the end.

Also Compile games just play a little differently and have a unique style, make sure you try all the weapons and don;t stick to exclusively, one, there might be one that sucks but makes clearing a particular section much more manageable while the good weapons suck. It's easy to overlook this and it's a criticism I have of some of their games.

Thread is a bit slow but it's nice to have a more stable place to talk about shmups than random /v/ threads.

>>11957339
>Doesn't even include Gradius IV, V and Gaiden
Fucking why, Konami ?! Also, don't worry too much about not being able to 1cc it right now, getting to stage 3/4 pretty consistently is already really good after 13 hours, especially if you've never played a Gradius before.

>>11976015
With V and Gaiden I understand, emulator M2 uses probably doesn't cover console games. Guess it also doesn't support IV.

>>11976193
I don't know how Origins Collection works under the hood, but they were able to shove Gradius I-IV and Gaiden on a fucking UMD back in 2006, how complicated can it be to replicate that after nearly 2 fucking decades of technological progress ?

>>11976254
I know right. It even had a save system and things like custom slowdown options.
M2 emulator looks more advanced in terms of tools, but restricted to arcade.

>>11947607 (OP)
>>11968317
Well then.
Catbox appears to be down, you can DL it here. Don't bother trying to watch from the site's own player, it will always hang every 2 mins.
https://filebin.net/sklsg1tyl4qv062i
That's a 1cc of advance course, aka the one that lets you play all the stages. The special course mentioned in the pic is a boss rush mode, I'm not particularly interested in that but might try.

>>11975950
Agreed. We should keep this general going.

And even when you win, the final boss gets to do this shit.
What were they thinking. And what was I thinking actually trying to 1cc this.

>>11966148
Akiragoya games

Is the Toaplan collection for Switch decent? Is it worth it for those who want to play the games in handheld mode from time to time?

>>11947607 (OP)
JRPGs are better.

>>11976934
You have to be closer to the center.

>>11977212
It's something that only happens if you kill the first phase while the lasers are up in the first place. Normally they don't spin that fast and cover that much screen space. Guess the idea is to not shoot at all until it's safe, but then it can still happen on time out.

They deleted the thread on /v/, but it's crazy how people really think Silver Surfer is one of the hardest games ever made, because of the Nintendo Nerd video, when by shooter standards it's extremely easy. In fact, it's easier than many "normal" NES games. I'd say finishing Mario 2 (lost levels) or even SMB3 without using power-ups in the last world is harder than Silver Surfer, that piece of shit.

Trying to play Ninja Saviors Return of the Warriors, I really don't get how to beat even the first boss
Get too close he grabs
Too far and he jumps, you can't attack and he has a massive stomp
Blocking his moves means you aren't doing damage
Wtf do I do?

>>11977408
The way to avoid being grabbed in that game is to not stay in the area where you are likely to be grabbed.
If you stay very close to him, he won't grab you, so you kind of stick to him, defend yourself from the sequence that ends with the kick, then complete a combo and reposition yourself.

>>11977336
Now wait until you realize how 90% of common gaming opinions originated from some other video or review, and most people did not in fact play these games.

RIP

>>11976934
>And what was I thinking actually trying to 1cc this.
Now keep playing it. You're just getting started. Try Strawman.

i used to play a gradius flash game clone on ebaums world and that's really all I've ever played from this genre. It's fun but I have to be in a really special mood to enjoy them. Just like tetris. it's not something I can play too often.

reminder baf is a faggot
>>11977408
not a shmup

>>11947607 (OP)
>>11951694
>>11952204
>>11952976
>>11954208
>more iconic than half of the games on there
>missing
Embarrassing as to whomever made this

how hard is rayforce 1cc?

>>11979334
Pretty hard, but not as hard as a 2-all

>>11979343
rayforce has a 2-all?

>>11979347
no that anon is retarded

>>11979347
No, Rayforce is a single loop game. What I meant is that is not as hard as other shmups clears with multiple loops

>>11979382
why would you say such a stupid fucking thing? some 2-alls are easy

be specific moron

>>11979493
>some 2-alls are easy
Could you name some?

So I was watching a video and the guy suggests a list of difficulties, but it seems so wrong to me. Here's the list:

docs
google
com
/spreadsheets/d/1p0jDK6lYEFT1MHsFxWoWsmzRdNO1SMmzCjkjQOG1B9I/edit?gid=0#gid=0

Caladrius Blaze is difficulty level 0, while Vasara 1 is level 17. In my experience, Vasara 1 is MUCH easier than Caladrius Blaze. This kind of thing is beyond my comprehension.

>>11979282
>Try Strawman
What about him?

>>11979302
Not really. It's a good game but a one-off SNES shmup, not even in arcades AFAIK. Probably should be there though instead of this weird retard shit with the bird in a biplane.

I'm suddenly out if nowhere with no outside input thinking about gradius

>>11979282
>It gets fun after 200 hours!

>>11971947
I fucked it up. I had no idea there were collectibles that make you respawn on the spot, and one of the checkpoints in stage 9 is insanely difficult if you have to respawn from it.

>>11980230
You don't waste 200 hours not having fun in a shmup. It only takes the first 5 mins at best and full game length at worst, which is just around 25 mins on average

>Marion's bomb in Gunbird 2
Holy sovl.

Not vr but I just 1cc'd Devil Blade Reboot. What an awesome game for a retard like me who sucks at shmups. It feels so fair and well telegraphed, and is pretty forgiving with the bomb-as-shield mechanic. I can react instead of having to memorize.

I tried some classics shmups at random from a rom collection (Garegga and Raiden 2) but I'm really terrible at those. I struggle to even see the bullets at times because the pixels blend easily with the backgrounds and all the visual spectacle.

I would really like to find another one like DBR, that feels well telegraphed and reactive. Or a classic one that's more beginner-friendly and that doesn't feel too visually noisy.

>>11981041
>Garegga
> I struggle to even see the bullets
Don't worry that's normal. The game has infamously shit bullet visibility.

>>11981053
the entire game is infamously shit

>>11981041
As far as I know, the creator of Devil Blade used that "STG Builder" that you can buy on Steam. Pretty impressive if that's true.
As for the game itself, it's fun and exciting, but I think it's too formulaic. There are no moments of chaos that make you think, "this is impossible", just so you can pass easily later and realize that you're getting good at the game.

>>11981093
Finally, regarding game suggestions, there is an anon who sometimes posts links to preconfigured emulators and 100+ shoot 'em ups. I recommend downloading them if you see the link somewhere, or on /v/. Some games that I think are worth trying even if you're not a shoot 'em up expert:

>Gunbird:
Steam versions is easier, I think

>Vasara 1:
You can destroy bullets with your sword, which makes the game relatively easy.

>Strikers 1945 I and II:
They're really fucking hard for beginners, but the Steam version has more accessible difficulty levels.)

>Deathsmiles
It's not among the pirated games that Anon distributes, but it can be purchased cheaply on Steam. It's a really fun game, even for those who don't like shoot 'em ups.

>>11981116
>It's not among the pirated games that Anon distributes
It's here in the link often posted on /v/, but do use the steam ports.

>>11981056
Oh boy, looks like this general has run its course and become useless now

>>11981330
It is what it is

Bored, decided to 1cc another game
but it's not a shmup

>>11981330
nobody plays shmups
now jarpigs...

I like this spayship, what game is it from?

When is the second witch hunting for cheaters happening again (like the one with Perikles)? I'm kinda tired of these faggots taking the spotlight and getting praised for something they don't deserve. It's just fucking stupid.
>Haha I'll 2-ALL dojwl within a week.... without any practice!
>Hmm maybe next week I'll post a Ura 2-ALL on youtube too. It's not like people I'll find it suspicious.
I've been watching streams from high level players like fufufu, SPS, kamui, KET, gus for years and all of them struggle to pull off solid perfect runs. That's because they work hard to get there. BUT HEY, some western faggots can just no miss no bomb all the way to hibachi without any effort or proof (inp or stream) and people will suck their dick on the comments "OMG! BULLET HELL GOD!! THE SECOND JAIMERS IS HERE!!".

>>11981936
we found all the ships already:
>>11955868

>>11982021
Nobody cares enough to do this.
Actually why do you even care about what cunts on YT are doing?

>>11982270
>Actually why do you even care about what cunts on YT are doing?
I find it annoying. I know most of people in the comments are outsiders to the genre and they can't notice TAS-like dodges, but giving credits and attention to cheaters overshadows actual skilled players. Some really good runs from the stg community barely have 1k views like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Zvi9LUICY

>>11982021
What are you talking about? You gave no source for who you're even accusing.

>>11976934
Why did you pick this character instead of a good one if you were just trying to 1cc the game? Didn't someone from /v/ blow through this last week with Shorty?

>>11983140
She looked pretty good to me, fast+wide shot+longer bomb that basically hits full screen. Before trying a 1cc I played with random chars and Maria stood out to me, so I settled on trying my first run with her. Good to know it would have been even easier with others I guess, although it feels like the only major change would be trying to use the Garegga guys or the ones with very narrow shots.

>>11983204
Not only do characters change playstyle, but their type selection matters a lot to. Sections of the game can have entirely different approaches. You played a character with side block options, now imagine playing one with gradius style trailing options. Additionally, to maximize your secret bosses (and score) you need to play teams anyways, since one requirement for secret bosses is to have at least one of X character on your team.

>>11983250
>but their type selection matters a lot to
I'm aware.
>Additionally, to maximize your secret bosses (and score) you need to play teams anyways, since one requirement for secret bosses is to have at least one of X character on your team.
That too. If I do another run I will probably pick a team that meets as much hidden boss requirements as possible since by now I know ths main stages very well.

>>11983262
It doesn't end there either. Medal chaining is pretty damn satisfying, batrider is a serious scoring game. Presumably you didn't engage with that mechanic at all.

>>11983267
I did a run where I chained from stage 1 up to a middle section is stage 7 but unfortunately still kneeled to the final boss.
In that 1cc above I was actually doing well until I ran into a bullet in stage 5 while trying to catch a medal and continued playing more focused on survival from that point on.