Thread 11952092

Why do people claim this is easy? It's harder than 1, 3JP, and Rondo. The final stage especially is very difficult, and the Dracula fight is the hardest in the series.

Most importantly, it actually feels good to play and control, mistakes feel like your own fault rather than just stupid cheap bullshit.

>>11952092 (OP)
It is harder than those listed, but it's still not a difficult game.

>>11952092 (OP)
Only the final stage is difficult because it's trial-and-error garbage. The rest of the game is piss easy

>>11952092 (OP)
all castlevania games are hard other than the anime one

The enemy placement and types are rubbish for 90% of the game it might as well be a walking sim. You have Bone-pillars that shoot off-screen in a section where you climb up stairs and those dumb sand golems that walk back and forth and slows down the game from the sheer amount of sprites they spawn when they take damage. Should've learned from CV 3.

The only "hard" parts are hard for the wrong reasons.

Like the fucking sawblade which can come oup the screen out of nowhere and kill you when the player is a situation where it's literally impossible to dodge it or see it come.

Or the ceiling skipes which hit detection is a lot bigger than their art.

The only "hard" parts are just bad design. And yes, I know, that's what zoomers say about everything, except they are wrong when they say it. When I say it, I'm right.

>>11952092 (OP)
>mistakes feel like your own fault rather than just stupid cheap bullshit

>>11952203
No, there's like 4-5 stages that are pretty tough.

>>11952243
That's all of CV, it's meant to be a slower, more tactical series. I mean there's countless sections in all CV games where just spamming whip on flat stages is easily going to outrange and stunlock enemies. Plus, you'd be surprised, a lot of these "easy" sections whittle you down, and are especially tougher on hard mode.

>>11952248
Are you serious? You can massively outpace the sawblade, it's just meant to be a timed event that hurries you up, that much is clear.

As for the spike section, every spike hitbox in the game before that has been very precise or even generous (compared to CV3 where they kill you about 2 feet above your head) allowing you to even slightly touch without dying. However, here you're moving upwards into them at an angle and need to jump off. Maybe they kill you a couple frames early based on trajectory, but you still clearly have no way to escape when they hit you (unlike CV3 where they just kill you because their hitbox is gargantuan)

>The only "hard" parts are just bad design.
The only sections with bad design are a couple sections that have repetitive and harmless enemies or time-wasting slow animations. The last two stages are tough but fair, a satisfying gauntlet to cap off the game. If anything, it's even generous that they allow you to continue from the minibosses rather than stage start.

>>11952092 (OP)
I've been playing it for 30 years and I still can't beat it without using a continue, but it's mostly due to stupid falling deaths
And after 30 years that one fucking armadillo STILL gets me

>>11952092 (OP)
Because westies played a bad romhack of C3 once (Western version) and decided all games should be judged following that mark

>>11952092 (OP)
2 types of /vr/ user
>I 100%ed this hard game when I was 8
>This easy game is actually le hard

>>11952092 (OP)
>Why do people claim this is easy?
You should take 2x damage.

>>11952382
> You can massively outpace the sawblade

The screen doesn't scroll upwards at the same rythm that the player does, which can lead to situation where no matter how good you're doing, you'll find yourself in the bottom area of the screen in a situation where the blade is literally unavoidable if it appears.
A well designed segment like this would either have the screen scroll dynamically with the player, or make it an autoscroller; or have the blade only spawn in given, chosen, places rather than having it be able to spawn anywhere just depending on a timer.

>every spike hitbox in the game before that has been very precise or even generous

Things being good in place A doesn't excuse things being bad in place B. If anything the lack of consistency make it worse.

This isn't even this area's only problems, there is also the fact that if you jump and hit your head on a ceiling at the same time as you land on a platform, you fall through the floor. Which can happen a lot because of this area's cramped design.
Then there is also the part with the rising floating rocks, there are two issues with that one too: the player is way too high on the screen for it to start scrolling upwards so you can't see the spikes come (the same ones with shit hit detection); and two at the start of that segment you're on a platform on the right of the screen. If you jump on a rock, jump back on the platform, the screen will have gone up a couple of pixels in such a way that you're in a dead man walking scenario because it's now impossible to jump back onto a rock.

The whole area is just filled with shit design and is obviously super rushed

>>11952773
>if it appears
Again, dumbass, it's based on timing. It doesn't appear out of nowhere, it "appears" if you're taking way too long to kill you, which is completely intentional, the entire fucking point

Any game genie/action replay codes to increase damage from enemies and hazards?

>>11952773
The blade moves at a set speed and is calculated offscreen too, it's really not an issue unless you really take your sweet time

I never had any issues with spikes or platforms, all fairly intuitive, certainly by janky ass Castlevania standards. Stairs are a bit wonky, because you have to have your feet on or almost on them and hold up, but once you know that, it's straightforward enough.

Scrolling screen has always killed you in all CV games, and it's MUCH less egregious here than any other game.

Just a lot of nitpicking and skill issue bitching about jank that applies much more to other Castlevania games

Rondo is a trickier game. The only genuinely difficult parts of CV4 are the last levels, especially the Slogra fight. But Rondo is more difficult, even though you have more tools than in that game.

>>11953015
>skill issue

I've beaten both Dracula XX and Bloodlines while only take a couple of hits throughout the entire games. I don't have Castlevania skill issues.

>jank that applies much more to other Castlevania games

There is nothing comparably terrible, both in terms of game design theory and execution, in any other Castlevania except maybe Adventure. I just don't believe I'm talking to people who are knowledgeable enough in game design practices to realize that considering the posts I've seen on /vr/ regarding Castlevania games in the past.

I know this is going to read like I think highly of myself but I can't take you people's posts seriously with defending things like the terrible hit detection of the ceiling spikes is pure "I must defend the game at all costs!!!" mentality with zero objectivity, having huge empty spaces around spikes that kill the player is bad game design 101 and there is no way around it.

>>11953094
Nothing in Rondo is as hard as SCIV's final stage

Nothing in SCIV is as poorly designed dogshit as Rondo's bridge section with Richter

>>11953207
>I've beaten both Dracula XX and Bloodlines while only take a couple of hits throughout the entire games
Lmao shut the fuck up you lying clown. Let me guess: zero proof. Fuck right off

>There is nothing comparably terrible, both in terms of game design theory and execution, in any other Castlevania except maybe Adventure. I just don't believe I'm talking to people who are knowledgeable enough in game design practices to realize that considering the posts I've seen on /vr/ regarding Castlevania games in the past.
LMAO you literally fucking thought the blade just comes "randomly" and completely failed to understand the blatantly obvious fact that it slowly rises at a set rate off screen. You are a complete fucking retard bro, just stop.

>I know this is going to read like I think highly of myself but I can't take you people's posts seriously with defending things like the terrible hit detection of the ceiling spikes is pure "I must defend the game at all costs!!!" mentality with zero objectivity, having huge empty spaces around spikes that kill the player is bad game design 101
You spent more time bitching about a section than it would take to beat blind the first time. You also fail to understand simple mechanics and hitboxes despite being way more intuitive and consistent than other CV games.

Stop this charade, you're a shitter who got your ass handed to you by a game many consider "easy" and now you need to come up with a million excuses. It's fucking pathetic man, just stop

When you see the spikes have a slightly bigger hitbox, you don't shit your diaper and throw a temper tantrum and write a dissertation about how it makes the whole game shit, you just stay slightly further away from the spikes and move on with your life. It's one tiny nitpick of jank in an otherwise very good action game

>>11952092 (OP)
I agree the later stages are more difficult but the multi-directional whip just trivializes so many of the enemy encounters. It feels like they designed and placed the enemies in a way that is meant for the whipping style of the original games but then later in development added different whip directions without adjusting the enemies. So many times you can just whip an area above or below you and kill an enemy without even getting near it. I love the game though, it's just not that hard in comparison to the other games.

>>11952092 (OP)
>Why do people claim this is easy? It's harder than 1, 3JP, and Rondo. The final stage especially is very difficult, and the Dracula fight is the hardest in the series.

At least in super castlevania 4 the main character walks quick and can use the whip in nearly all directions.

In castlevania 1, castlevania 3, castlevania chronicles and castlevania dracula x the main character moves slow and can only use the whip in front direction.

>>11954480
>In castlevania 1, castlevania 3, castlevania chronicles and castlevania dracula x the main character moves slow and can only use the whip in front direction.

And all of these games are designed around that limitation you mongoloid. Just like 4 is designed around the multi-direction.

>>11952092 (OP)
They don't no one gives a shit about tendie slop outside its echochambers

>>11954941
The point is that in SCIV you feel in full control of your character. In other CV games your options are very limited and you feel heavily handicapped, unable to express the character how you'd like.

CV1 and CV3 are some of the absolute most fucking clunky, janky games out there, between the huge delay on whip, limited to only attacking in one direction, fixed jump arc with zero air control, horribly implemented subweapon system, input for subweapon bound to up+attack (especially an issue on stairs), and the massively janky stairs (especially on CV3 where they somehow managed to fuck up stair controls even worse than CV1).

Castlevania is the only series where fanboys defend shitty, janky, highly limited controls as some feature or identity of the series.

SCIV still feels very much like a CV game, just not a stiff, janky, poorly controlling one, you're actually fighting the enemies and level design, not the shit controls.

>>11954941
Yes and a game designed around nimble movement where you can actually attack and move how you like feels better than a game designed around movement that is arbitrarily stiff, janky, poorly controlling, and highly restrictive, you fucking moron.

>>11954992
>Feels better
Not what was being discussed retard.

>>11954994
Fighting dogshit controls/jank and being unable to properly express yourself contribute to the feelings of difficulty, manifested as frustration rather than a satisfying challenge

>>11952092 (OP)
Other castlevania games were hard from lvl 1.
IV starts easy and ramps up over time.

>>11954941
>And all of these games are designed around that limitation you mongoloid. Just like 4 is designed around the multi-direction.

Have you ever played dracula x you retard? there the main character is slow as a snail. And the stairs are the worst part.

>>11952092 (OP)
This is a troll post right? Nothing in CV4 comes close to 1 or 3. Stage 8 is the hardest and that's like midgame level of difficulty in CV3. And you think the easiest Dracula in the series is the hardest? The guy with a single health bar that you can diagonally whip and drops meat during the fight?

>>11957281
Last stage in SCIV is far harder than any section in CV1 or JP CV3. CV1 has like one somewhat tough section and one hard boss (that is trivialized with subweapons). JP CV3 is very easy, I don't remember a single tough section outside of some cheap deaths from shit controls.

Dracula in both CV1 and CV3 is trivial if you know the trick, while SCIV Dracula has attacks that are much harder to avoid, and while he has only one health bar, it is absolutely massive, and the fight has three phases all of which have no real trick or gimmick aside from just good fundamentals (dodging well, getting in attacks when you can)

>>11954992
>arbitrarily stiff
Meaningless buzzword along the lines of "jank".
>poorly controlling
There is no input lag or inconsistency in the handling of controls, so objectively speaking it's fine.
>highly restrictive
Not inherently a bad thing.

>>11957389
>no analog jump height
>zero jump air control whatsoever
>only two jump trajectories (straight up and big arc)
>tons of misleading hitboxes
>scrolling screen instakills you even if there should have been ground there
>can be knocked off platforms but stairs bolt you to the ground for some reason, >arbitrarily can't attack up, down, or diagonal for some reason
>extremely slow attack animation (both lag and significant animation windup)
>no way to lock or save current subweapon
>subweapons that randomly drop and instantly replace your current
>subweapons take forever to disappear before you can proceed past them
>multi-button inputs for commonly used actions like subweapons feel bad in general but especially egregious given how stair controls work
>CV3 fucked up stair controls even more so you can't even input diagonal commands to climb, instead having to stop and hold up alone to start climbing
>upgrading whip is just an annoying mechanic in general that adds nothing except fucking you over briefly on respawn, but is especially annoying in CV3 where it disincentivizes you from swapping characters, especially if you are dying frequently
Yes, many players would consider these negative aspects of the games that are janky. Surely you can see why players would appreciate a Castlevania game that remedies these. SCIV fixed almost all of these while still feeling distinctly Castlevania.

And no, just because controls are consistent(ly bad), doesn't mean that they aren't still bad. Regardless of whether you tack "muh objectivity" on there, smoothbrain.

>>11957389
>no analog jump height
>zero jump air control whatsoever
>only two jump trajectories (straight up and big arc)
>tons of misleading hitboxes
>scrolling screen instakills you even if there should have been ground there
>can be knocked off platforms but stairs bolt you to the ground for some reason
>arbitrarily can't attack up, down, or diagonal for some reason
>extremely slow attack animation (both lag and significant animation windup)
>no way to lock or save current subweapon
>subweapons that randomly drop and instantly replace your current
>subweapons take forever to disappear before you can proceed past them
>multi-button inputs for commonly used actions like subweapons feel bad in general but especially egregious given how stair controls work
>CV3 fucked up stair controls even more so you can't even input diagonal commands to climb, instead having to stop and hold up alone to start climbing
>upgrading whip is just an annoying mechanic in general that adds nothing except fucking you over briefly on respawn, but is especially annoying in CV3 where it disincentivizes you from swapping characters, especially if you are dying frequently
Yes, many players would consider these negative aspects of the games that are janky. Surely you can see why players would appreciate a Castlevania game that remedies these. SCIV fixed almost all of these while still feeling distinctly Castlevania.

And no, just because controls are consistent(ly bad), doesn't mean that they aren't still bad. Regardless of whether you tack "muh objectivity" on there, smoothbrain.

>>11957383
What part of the last stage is hard? The spinning blade room's final jump? There's permanent checkpoints littered all over the final stage. Nothing about the final gauntlet is hard when there's zero punishment for dying. Lose your lives on Death in CV1 and it's back to 5-1. Lose your lives on Death in CV4 and it's back to the room with free candles right before Death. You don't even have to do the whole gauntlet again much less the stage again it's a per boss checkpoint which is absolutely insane. Even without the holy water truck the room before him is tougher than all of stage B. I'm not claiming CV1 is insanely hard either but relative to it CV4 is way easier and it's been known that way since the games all came out. Everyone at school back in the day could beat CV4 and few if any could do CV1 or 3 it just doesn't map to reality from the basis of people who grew up playing them firsthand.

>>11957421
death fight is way easier in CV1 than SCIV. Also CV1 has way less checkpoints because it's only a 20 minute game, but it still has unlimited continues, and you're never more than a couple minutes from a game over checkpoint.

I was surprised they give you even game over checkpoints on the final stage of SCIV, but it's such a ridiculously hard gauntlet that it makes sense. It basically needs them or instead of merely being harder than CV1, it would be like 5x harder.

And yes, spinning blade room full of instakills is far harder than the area leading up to death in CV1.

>>11957418
CV IV controls are fucking janky. Sharp, Bloodlines, CVX (SNES), CVX (PCE). They're smoother. Jump height in CV IV is bad, unlike the classicvania floaty jump that allows you to set a smoother rhythm for your jumps. You also have backflips, item crashes, and shit like whip jumps everywhere that help the player's movement.

>>11952092 (OP)
>Why do people claim this is easy? It's harder than 1, 3JP, and Rondo.

Only the last stage in super castlevania 4 is hard, all the other stages are normal.

>>11952092 (OP)
>It's harder than 1,
Eh maybe
>3JP,
Debatable
>and Rondo.
No

>>11957024
Jumping on stairs in Dracula X is far quicker than traversing on IV's stairs.
>>11957418
These games were designed with most of these in mind, and many of them can be argued to be more natural to certain players (the first three, only horizontal attacks, long attack animations, Up+A subweapons and allowing the player to use a weaker whip as a challenge). Even for others, I don't see how the vague "misleading hitboxes" is a big issue when IV has Slogra, whose hitboxes are off and his behavior is highly random. Some of these are incredibly baffling, like "randomly dropped subweapons" (you're meant to learn candles with subweapons so you can make use of them well and get 2/3 items) or "can't attack up, down or diagonally" (similarly to Mega Man, that's the whole point of these games).
I don't even mind IV, but consider this: there are players who never wanted these "fixes", and do think that IV's changes are enough for it to be unappealing to them, just like some people who don't like other games can like IV because of the changes it made, and there are those who like both. That doesn't mean much, and you don't have to lower other games just to explain why you believe IV's changes are good.

>>11957519
What about Death is designed for CV controls? What about hordes of stupid monkey enemies are designed for CV controls? What about the awful bridge section in Rondo is designed for CV controls? What about flying Medusa heads right on top of pits is designed around CV controls?

Just about the only thing in CV actually designed around the movement and shit controls is the platforming section that always use the same set distance between platforms, so you never have to consider timing or air control, you just press jump near the edge and the jump is always the same every single time.

You just say stupid shit without even thinking about it. No, the game is not designed around jank and shit controls. And even if it was, most people would rather have a game actually designed around fluid controls and intuitive game systems and being able to naturally express their character how they want without a ton of arbitrary restrictions and jank.

>but consider this: there are players who never wanted these "fixes", and do think that IV's changes are enough for it to be unappealing to them
Gee, here's a fucking idea you retard: you have like a dozen other classicvania games with shit restrictive movement/controls and full of jank. Why do you feel the need to throw a tantrum and shit your diaper about a single classicvania that fixes these and actually feels good to play?

>>11957505
Still harder than anything in CV1, CV3JP, or Rondo

>>11957510
Rondo really isn't hard at all, even with Richter.

The boss rush takes a few tries but has very generous checkpoints, and the bridge section is utterly retarded garbage, but it's at the beginning of the stage and the rest of the stage is cake.

>>11957548
All of those games are harder than Super Castlevania.

>>11957558
I've beat all of them on original hardware and disagree. Oh well.

>>11957548
You don't like old video games, you just like the modern idea of "retro gaming". If this was still /vr/ pre-attack you'd be getting laughed at until you'd make a shitpost "troll" thread as a response, get b& for it, and never come back

>>11957587
There's like 50+ games from the 80s alone that I've enjoyed. I don't even hate Castlevania, I've just never been a fan of the shit controls and jank. You can say it's intentional, but I don't believe it and I don't care.

Even from the 80s alone, there are very few games as stiff and janky as Castlevania that aren't just complete shovelware.

>>11957548
>Death
His movement is semi-influenced by your position, and his scythes track you as well. If not using the Holy Water exploit, you should bait him into specific areas, then try to clean up the screen while dealing damage to him whenever it's safe. He stops when he spawns the scythes, and if you'd like to use the Cross, you can both deal damage more safely and do better at cleaning up the screen from scythes. There are similar bosses in other games that limit the player through having the projectiles/attacks be harder to deal with in order to create a similar challenge, as restrictions and risk off being overwhelmed are part of what makes bosses like these interesting.
>stupid monkey enemies
I assume you mean the fleamen. They are, indeed, designed for CV controls: you have to stop and time your attacks in order to deal with them, and poor timing or bruteforce will lead to punishment.
>flying Medusa heads right on top of pits
Keeping track of enemies that are consistent (usually spawning based on your current vertical position and moving in a consistnet pattern) while using knowledge about how they work in order to know when to resume moving. In Dracula X, there's similar areas with bats as well, and in that game, you can make use of the bats/Medusa Head spawning depending on your direction in order to get through sections quickly as long as you can maintain a moonwalk.
>Rondo bridge
I haven't played Rondo in a while, so I don't have much to say, but that game does tend to abuse semi-random elements for enemies, which becomes more obvious if you try to play in a more risk-heavy way as Maria.

>>11957548
>>11957650
>most people would rather have a game actually designed around fluid controls and intuitive game systems and being able to naturally express their character how they want
Most people would want a modern indie game or at least something less like Castlevania, yes. And those who want Castlevania would likely understand that restrictions give fluid movement meaning: Mega Man Zero games are known for "fluid and free movement", and yet they're also known for demanding memorization and dealing with very random bosses if you want to do well. There's always the option to bruteforce them and "just enjoy the fluid movement", but that's not what they're about, and that's why they have a ranking system to punish just that.
>a single classicvania that fixes these and actually feels good to play?
You come into a classicvania thread, where those who like the more limited games like them for what they are, those who like IV like it for what it is, and those who like both have their own reasons, and then demand the former to accept IV as superior because of your arbitrary demands, which are rooted in preferring IV. What are you trying to achieve?

>>11957650
You illiterate dumbfuck, the point was not
>these sections are unwinnable and have literally no strategy aside from flailing and smashing buttons
It was
>WHAT ABOUT THEM IS DESIGNED AROUND CASTLEVANIA CONTROLS SPECIFICALLY?

I didn't ask you to ramble off strategies like an autist. I've beat the fucking games before, you fucking shitbrain.

>>11957653
Mega Man Zero controls and plays far, FAR better than Castlevania jank filth.

Castlevania is just a janky shitshow for all the reasons highlighted here >>11957418. It just feels fucking awful to play when you have cheap, fast moving enemies while you're a slow moving turd with extremely slow and limited attacks and a fixed jump who can't even walk up stairs without struggling, who flies back at the slightest hit, and can't even use a fucking subweapon while on stairs.

Meanwhile Mega Man Zero has a limited moveset, but feels extremely tight and responsive, with great hitboxes, and each aspect of the combat serves a specific purpose and niche, with bosses that mesh well with your moveset.

A game with a slow moving retarded turd of a character who can barely jump, takes a half second to wind up his whip, and can only hit a small area directly in front of him should be slower paced, with slower moving horizontal enemies, and a focus more on tactics and strategy than twitchy skills. But it doesn't and it's not; it has enemies and bosses that fly all the fuck over the screen, spam projectiles, and spaz around erratically, which is why the best fucking strategy for all the harder sections is just mindlessly spam subweapons.

>demand the former to accept IV as superior
I never said anything of the sort. You are the one having a conniption fit that someone could enjoy CV, while also thinking its controls are not particularly great or that it's janky as fuck. You shit your diaper at the mere fact that some may prefer SCIV over the jankfest of the other classicvania games

>>11952092 (OP)
I genuinely don't get you people who say Castlevania is even hard. Castlevania is medium difficulty for it's time. It took me only a few days to beat CV4 blind, and it didn't even really register to me the game is that hard. It just takes reps and memorization, but at like the lowest level. Especially because it gives you infinite retrys at the start of the level.

Shit like Ninja Gaiden, Contra, even fucking Goemon, even fucking Mario 3 is harder than Castlevania 4.

It just makes me think you suck at deliberate games that limit your movement because you can't think ahead about enemy placement and jumps.

>>11957650
>>11957653
Castlevania is literally the only series with autistic retard fanboys who blindly defend the technical limitations of the hardware and inexperience of the devs that resulted in such stiff movement, poor controls, and jank mechanics. They consider it somehow core to the identity of the series that it must feel horrible to control.

Donkey Kong Arcade to SMB
Metroid to Super Metroid
Contra Arcade to Contra NES
Zelda 2 to ALTTP
Streets 1 to Streets 2
Mega Man to Mega Man X
Ghosts to Ghouls
Mother to Earthbound

Nobody else complains about games that feel better to control and play as hardware becomes more powerful or devs become more experienced, only Castlevania fanboys. Truly some of the most Stockholm Syndrome retards.

>>11957751
Which is why SOTN is the best Castlevania

>>11957746
No one is saying CV is hard, just SCIV is not any easier than other CV games. None of the CV games should take a first time player blind more than like 5-8 hours to beat max.

CV has always been pretty easy, same with Contra. I consider Zelda and SMB3 far harder games.

>>11957751
Crying about "jank" makes you a little bitch though. I don't think its castlevania fanboys making fun of you, I think its just anybody with taste.

>>11957757
No, CV is absolutely without a doubt jank as fuck. NES games in general have a certain stiffness to them, that's fine, but CV literally controls like the most dogshit of shovelware, but the worst part is it's actually a decent game so you have to wade through the shit.

You misconstrue zoomers complaining about all/most retro games being janky as "jank literally does not exist in any capacity" when that's simply not true at all

>>11957754
I genuinely think CV4 is easier than the other games though. The fact they give you a multi-directional whip trivializes the game completely. The only thing that was "hard" to me were some of the bullshit pixel perfect jumps that only work if one of your feet is hanging off the edge. But if you understand that's normal for CV than its not that hard to memorize. And the final form of Dracula is not harder than the original, or 3, or X, or Rondo, or Bloodlines. In fact even Bloodlines is harder than CV4 if you pick belmont, some of the Bloodlines level design is absolute horseshit.

>>11957763
>No, CV is absolutely without a doubt jank as fuck
Nta
I'm not going to argue against that, I'll just say that when you accept that it was designed that way and "play by its rules", it becomes a more enjoyable game.

But it you take it out and put it in a game like Simon's Quest, I think more people will agree that it's janky, for that type of game.

>>11957763
>NES games in general have a certain stiffness to them, that's fine,

Every new post you make embarasses you a little more

>>11957764
I mean I found SCIV harder, but they're all pretty easy games. SCIV difficulty felt fair while others mostly felt like cheap gotcha moments.

>>11957773
Yes, they aren't stiff, every NES game controls like Mario, bravo zoomer.

>>11957763
jesus fuckin christ. Castlevania isn't even remotely jank by NES standards though. Like at all. Let me guess. You are salty you can't control your jump mid-air after you hit a button, making you die. You are mad the whip has an actual frame delay forcing you to make input your buttons slightly early.

Im sorry to tell you, all that shit IS deliberate. The level design is literally built around the controls and frame timings and has obviously been playtested and reworked to perfection, especially in CV1 and CV3. You can tell because the game is absolutely smooth as fuck when you speed run the levels and know the games in and outs, there's no "artificial difficulty" stopping you in your tracks. All the enemy spawns, patterns, level geometry, is like perfectly tailored for completely smooth play the whole level. If the devs were just doing random shit the levels would feel like shit.

>>11957736
These sections are the way they are because without limited movement and long animations, there wouldn't be much purpose to Medusa Head rooms or enemies like Spear Knights, which are explicitly designed to punish you for not understanding how your whip works or not knowing when to back down to dodge their attacks. These are then combined in stages like Draucla X's clocktower, where you have to keep track of bat spawns while dealing with Spear Knights on ladders, or climb gears that exploit your slow movement while Medusa Heads spawn. The "cheap, fast moving enemies" are mostly consistent for that very reason: had you been able to deal with them easily on the stairs or be able to dodge them without much issue through pure reaction, there wouldn't be a purpose to them. You have to plan ahead in order to not need "twitchy skills", and that's why the movement is the way it is: if you want to go subweaponless/avoid taking damage, learn the stage and know which risks are above your skill level. This is the appeal of these games, having to learn limited, but consistent controls while dealing with aggressive enemies, and getting rid of either aspect gets rid of that appeal. Mega Man Zero demands memorization just as much as Castlevania does: having "tight and responsive movement" won't mean anything when even Zero 1 has rolling enemies to punish those who refuse to learn the stages, along with bosses made to restrict you, like the train core, Hanumachine or Copy X's second phase. Zero's quick saber slashes also cause a post-slash delay, while whip attacks in Castlevania games have large hitboxes and give more room for error as long as you can land the hit.
I don't mind if you like IV, nor do I understand why you're so pissed. I just prefer the other games, that's all.
>>11957751
>Mega Man to Mega Man X
There's more people who'd say X is a bad series while the original games are great. Even Zero isn't as praised as those.

>>11957779
It's not one single factor, it's the dozens of compounding factor combined with fast enemies that spaz all over the screen and instant death pits everywhere. It's just cheap and lazy, it's not even about difficulty as the game isn't hard as you have a massive health bar and unlimited continues.

And it's a hell of a lot more than one frame buffer, it's like almost half a second for the whip to actually extend from the time you press the button. Feels like utter shit.

>been playtested and reworked to perfection
Lol, no the fuck they aren't. Playtesting was barely a thing back in the day. Shit like Castlevania and Mega Man were pumped out in mere months, untested or barely tested, which is how you get shit like pic related. Most devs couldn't or didn't beat their own games.

>absolutely smooth as fuck when you speed run the levels and know the games in and outs
Every game is "smooth" when you have hundreds of hour in the game and have collaborated with tons of other runners to find the absolute most quick, viable, and consistent strats

And as stated, the platforming is basically on rails due to the set jump distance, so every jump is the same, it's just simply a matter of hitting jump near the ledge, and then subweapons trivialize all the difficult sections.

>>11957781
>>11957779
Stop arguing with the retard, it's obviously pointless considering his attitude, so you're only inviting him to stay and make the board more retarded with his posts.

>>11957781
>airborne enemies can never pose a threat unless you are a slow moving turd who takes half a second to wind up an attack and can only hit directly in front of you
Holy shit, you CV fanboys have brain damage.

Have you ever tried playing a single other action game in existence? It's almost like you can create all of these same exact strategies and encounter design without the necessity for shit controls and jankshit mechanics.

All CV does is make lining up and avoiding enemies feel extra shitty because you have zero aerial control and need to try line up whip attacks like 9 years in advance because they take so long to come out, assuming the whip doesn't just phase right through the enemy which happens quite often as well.

>>11957781
Why are you comparing CV to MMZ? If anything that's showing my point here... I'm not saying all games with limited combat/movement are bad, I'm calling out your bullshit that limited combat/movement inherently make a game good or are a necessity for it being good, especially when that game also has shit controls, janky mechanics, and poor level design (CV)

Mega Man Zero is an example of limitations done extremely well, Castlevania is an example of it done extremely poorly.