Thread 11962868

Was Nintendo justified in dropping out of the deal with Sony?

Yes

Yes, but they did it in the most dramatic way possible, which was uncalled for.

>>11962868 (OP)
Reminder that this is why the PSX is called PSX. The PlayStation was already a thing talked about in magazines.

>>11962868 (OP)
If Nintendo wanted to make a disk addon they could have done it just like they did with the Famicom Disk System. There was no reason to involve Sony.

>>11962886
SNES-CD has no connection to the PSX moniker. PS-X was used to refer to a prototype of Sony's own console, not the SNES combo unit.

All I care about is the fact that we got the 64 and the PlayStation, we were eating good then boys!

>>11962892
That's exactly what I'm saying. People always ask
>Oh yeah what does the X stand for you moron??!!
It stands for
>it's the new PlayStation after the Nintendo's PlayStation

>>11962868 (OP)
Yes, Sony was asking for pretty unacceptable terms that would not have been beneficial for Nintendo. Nintendo then could've just told them "no way fag" and quietly backed out of the deal, and they would've been perfectly justified in doing so, and Sony would have been disappointed but most likely see it as just a failed venture and ultimately move on to other things. Instead they chose to throw egg on Sony's face by publicly announcing they were gonna partner with Philip instead without saying anything to Sony beforehand, which in a face culture like Japan is insulting as all fuck. Little wonder then that the higher ups warmed up to Krazy Ken's idea of launching their own console.

>>11962868 (OP)
You tell me

>>11962996
Legendary

>>11962904
they were nearly identical terms that nintendo had used for their own business. what the fuck are you talking about?
>Nintendo then could've just told them "no way fag"
instead they took the cowardly way out because they thought phillips would be better. lmao. nintendo has always been a joke corporation.

>>11962868 (OP)
It would have been smart for Nintendo to keep stringing them along until the N64 was ready so that Sony never develops their own console.

>>11962996
fake and gay

>>11962868 (OP)
Given that Sony was asking for 50% ownership of every game published on the system, Nintendo would have been retarded to agree.

>>11962886
>The PlayStation was already a thing talked about in magazines.
[citation needed]

Nintendo wasn't making even close to playstation money before sony came along

>>11963848
Was the Seikima II game on Famicom THAT profitable?

Arguable, can't get a straight answer on what happened to cause it. Some say that Sony wanted 100% of the royalties, others said Nintendo wanted 100%. Is there any confirmed information and not just speculation that has been spread around internet forums for years on what actually caused it?

Also
>>11962880
This. Nintendo didn't even tell Sony and had them find out when they announced on stage that they would be partnering with Philips over it right before Sony was about to announce their Nintendo partnership at the same event. It was very childish and a total asshole move, especially when Nintendo used Sony's chips for the SNES's sound hardware. And then Philips just repurposed a device they already had meant for viewing photos and reference material into a "console" that to this day is a meme about how bad it's Nintendo games were.

>>11962886
No it isn't

>>11963086
Pretty sure Sony was already planning a console anyway. It's not like the "research" in the add-on had much to re-use for their own console, it was literally just a CD-ROM drive and had no additional hardware beyond just what was necessary to read CDs. It wasn't like the SegaCD that was practically a stand-alone console in and of itself, even the FDS and 64DD added some things in addition to the Famicom/N64 but the SNES's add-on would have done none of that, and if anything held games back because you can't put custom chips on a CD which the SNES heavily made use of.

>>11963860
Based. PS1 WISHES it had a Seikima-II game

>>11962868 (OP)
Sony was trying to screw Nintendo like Nintendo was already screwing over third parties. Pulling out of the deal was in Nintendo's best interests. The surprise Phillips partnership was also a calculated move to shame Sony out of entering the videogame business (that almost worked) and would have resulted in Microsoft dominating the console market with the xbox brand after Sega's inevitable downfall if it had worked.

>Here, have this deal with absolute clear conditions
>Oh yeah i will sign this by my own will
5 years later
>NOOOOOOOOOO IM BREAKING UP WITH YOU, ITS ALL YOUR FAULT YOU TRIED TO SCAM ME REEEEEEEEEEE

Im super happy Sony won both gen 5 and 6 with such an overwhelming numbers because fucking hell, 90's Nintendo were so fucking up on their own asses just because they beaten the disabled children SEGA was

>>11962880
The Japanese love being overly dramatic over everything, it's part of their tradition.

>>11964085
>Sony was trying to screw Nintendo
[citation needed]
>a calculated move to shame Sony out of entering the videogame business
How the fuck would that "shame" anybody? If anything it would piss them off and want to compete even more.
>and would have resulted in Microsoft dominating the console market
Even without Sony and Sega the Xbox would have never gotten anywhere in Japan

>>11964101
delete this

>>11964109
Sony said themselves that they almost left the industry after the Phillips announcement but Ken Kutaragi convicned everybody to go it alone. Also Japan would have reluctantly embraced the xbox because there would be no alternative. Without Sony Nintendo would have never eased up on third parties, Sega was doomed to fail and Japan still hated PCs. The Xbox would be the only alternative.

>>11962874
>>11962880
>>11962904
>All of these yeses coming
What are you guys retarded? Pulling out of the deal created Nintendo's biggest competitor and is literally the only console manufacturer that consistently outsells Nintendo.

>>11964118
>Sony said themselves that they almost left the industry after the Phillips announcement but Ken Kutaragi convicned everybody to go it alone.
Link?
>Also Japan would have reluctantly embraced the xbox because there would be no alternative.
They seem to be doing fine focusing on mobile games nowadays, I don't think they would have chosen the Xbox just because they had no choice, they would have stuck with Nintendo and likely PC gaming.

>>11964129
Look it up its common knowledge. And no, third parties were going to abandon Nintendo at the first possible opportunity, they actually supported the 3DO of all things.

>>11962868 (OP)
The first deal fucking sucked
The second deal was all Sony's fault
The third one with Philips ended up not happening due to how long this fucking took

>>11964126
This only happened because Sony didn't want to be under Nintendo's shadow anymore despite their attempts to get them under their knees.
It worked out for them anyways.

>>11964138
So then you should easily be able to provide a credible link, right? Like I said in >>11964056 can't seem to find a straight answer, just a lot of people going "This is what actually happened, trust me bro"

>>11964142
Look it up for yourself you lazy fucking autist.

>>11963860
Didn't you knew Doki Donkey Picnic was really Super Mario Brothers 2?

>>11964101
You conveniently left out the fact Nintendo and Sony made up and made another deal where Nintendo doesn't have to be a 3rd party publisher as a result, but Ken's egotistical ass said "actually, scrap it, we'll make out own console".

Nintendo didn't give a shit because they had Sony's competitor Philips working with them at one point for the SNES CD, but eventually Nintendo lost interest on CDs

>>11962880
>they did it in the most dramatic way possibe
You mean what Ken Kutaragi did on the 2nd deal?

Nintendo didn't intend to go with Philips OR Sony, or use a CD based format. They were just screwing around with what they viewed as their competition to stall for time.

Nintendo was the bad player here.

>>11964085
>Microsoft dominating the console market with the xbox brand after Sega's inevitable downfall

Don't be so sure this would happen. The only 3D alternative without Sony was going to be the 3D0 with or without the Saturn.

>>11964118
>Also Japan would have reluctantly embraced the xbox because there would be no alternative.

3D0, and PC games.

>>11964126
Like that's a bad thing. Competition creates a healthy market. Nobody wants any one company to have a monopoly. Even the monopoly itself, since that simply leads to stagnancy and then degeneracy.

>>11964126
It was Kutaragi that convinced the higher-ups at Sony. In any case, the point is whether the original deal was good for Nintendo or not in that moment. The future ramifications of their pulling out are another thing entirely, and I'm sure Nintendo might have done things differently in hindsight.

>>11964242
Except they wanted Philips on their side, so they let them fuck up with the CD-i and get them to work with Nintendo as a result in case Sony doesn't come back.

>>11962868 (OP)
Nintendo remained on the right side of history for not wanting to align itself with greedy MAFIAA linked corporations, and Sony was already one of them in the 90s.

>>11964484
Nah they were simply playing games with Philips and Sony alike. They never intended to go through with any of the deals. It was just a chance to get as much as Nintendo could from both companies, feel out where the technology was, etc.

Considering the current state of Sony, Nintendo dodged a bullet

>>11962868 (OP)
as fas as i remember, sony wanted a percentage of the royalties (don't know the number), it was clearly stated in the deal and nintendo agreed. later they backpedal because they thought it was too much or some other clause they didn't read or some shit. but then nintendo were assholes saying sony "sure, we are totally in with the idea. keep going" when they started negotiations with philips for a cd based system and never informed sony that they wanted to back off.
this was a typical nintendo strategy, though. they were (and still are i suppose) assholes. they did the same when making the gameboy, they contacted a bunch of lcd manufacturers and in the end had a deal with casio, but sharp arrived last minute with their proposal and shadowed casio.

>>11962886
>The PlayStation was already a thing talked about in magazines.
Sauce?

>>11965193
>Considering the current state of Sony,
they seem to be doing just fine. have you taken you schizophrenia medication today?

>>11966283
I meant the Playstation brand specifically

>>11962886
Reminder that children parroting maymays must be at least 18 to use the 4chin

>>11962868 (OP)
>>11962890
>>11964242
>>11965250

It's because the royalties Sony was asking for were too much!

For the NES and SNES, Nintendo was asking $14 per game.
Sega, for their part, asked for $13.

Then Sony negotiated for an extra $21!! on all SNES-PlayStation compatible CD-format products (games, movies, karaoke).
Even Ken Kutaragi didn't believe in this contract. (Source: the book "Revolution at Sony")

So later, when Kutaragi took over the PlayStation project, he negotiated $7 in royalties.
That is to say, with this $7, PlayStation games cost $59 (52+7$).
Now imagine the price of the same games if the Nintendo/Sony contract had continued?
$87. (52+14+21$)

I think it was a mistake. The handful of great n64 games aren’t really worth it if you consider how much more we could have had with a nintendo playstation. PS1 with Nintendo first party support would have kicked ass.

>>11967375
I dunno, the in-progress negotiations can seem to be anywhere. It's what they end up with which counts. Nintendo did fine with $69-89 games for the N64 after all. Even though more was eaten up in the cost of the cart than the CDs which cost a nickel to print.

>>11962996
People didn't act like poltards on the internet before 2007.

>>11968097
Ocarina of Time with 5 minute loading screens before a dungeon, how great.

>>11968151
Name one PS1 game with a 5 minute load time
I’ll wait

>>11967375
You got all your numbers wrong.

>>11964452
Ah yes because we totally don't have a stagnated gaming industry currently....

>>11968369
While not nearly 5 mins, I remember the driver demo had "Loading times to be optimised" over a very slow moving bar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ao-86KzwRE
But yeah, it would require a particular level of incompetence to have a 5min load time on a PS1. 2MB system RAM, 1MB VRAM, 512KB sound RAM, let's call it 4MB for funsies. With a 2X drive of around 300KB/s, you could fill that whole thing in about 14 seconds. You'd really have to be fucking with the scattershot small files to make it take longer.

>>11970336
Nintendo really just couldn't stand toe to toe with Sony in the r&d and marketing/sales department.

>>11962868 (OP)
Probably not but the industry is better off for it anyway ... unless you're a sega fanboy

>>11970336
Damn I wonder why people didn’t want to develop for the N64 its almost like discs are cheaper and they pay less than half the royalties.

>>11970336
That's what I said. You don't know how to read this image, you got your numbers wrong.

Let me break it down to you. The royalty rate is a percentage, not a fixed ammount. This image is an example using hypothetical retail prices of 40 and 60$ respectively.

But then you claimed the royalty playstation royalty would be 52+7$ = 59$ (not many PSX games that were 59$ outside of RPGs btw)

>>11962868 (OP)
No