Thread 11971760

They were done dirty by Japan.

>>11971760 (OP)
Naka is a piece of shit

>>11971760 (OP)
It's hilarious how arrogant Sega of Japan was considering Sega of America and Sega of Europe were the biggest money earners in Sega.

Sega of Japan was dead last and sales were total garbage. America and Europe paid all the bills...Yet Sega of Japan DEMANDED everyone follow their lead.

Sega of america killed Sega

Sega of Japan should have been mich harsher to them

>>11971760 (OP)
The Japanese have always looked down on America when it comes to video games. Weebs follow their lead and trash talk American games and devs. It's bullshit.

>>11971760 (OP)
Tom Kalinske fucked the whole company over

>>11971810
Name 5 classic Western console games. Hard mode: nothing made by Rare.

>>11971803
nerds with power can get very fucking petty. japan made good games but couldn't into marketing. america had the opposite problem.
not to say sega of america didn't have some talented devs, but their output looks positively amateurish compared to japan's.

>>11971760 (OP)
This is true, but you can never trust the Japanese. They are sneaky

>>11971760 (OP)
That virtua racer story with the US devs having to clone the Arcade game without the source code and had to come in at night when the japanese stopped using the dev kits cus they wouldnt give the americans their own dev kits was some bullshit

>>11971830
Apparently all of the Atari 2600 catslog doesn't exist.

>>11971760 (OP)
you done a bad thing OP

T minus until the SoJ sperg comes ITT and has his usual meltdown...

>>11971803
SoJ made the games that sold systems (+ sports from others like EA) and turns out SoA was losing money on the background while making absolutely retarded demands. Look up their stupid suggestions to redesign Sonic or the 32x fiasco.

>>11971890
He's here.

>>11971760 (OP)
If SoJ handled all the software and hardware decisions while SoA figured out how to market it all, Sega would have been better off

>>11971890
SoJ weeb had arrived.

>>11971943
>SoA figured out how to market it all,
They did. Marketing research said Western developers would hate the Saturn's design and told Japan to change it. Japan had an ego problem and said no. Look what happened. Saturn failed across the the world except in Japan where it was tied in sales with N64.

>>11971943
How do you market gay jester and sell it as better than Mario and Crash?

>>11971760 (OP)
SoJ was much better than SoA. SoA sucked aside from Tom Kalinske's excellent wisdom and guidance.

>>11971943
SoA was responsible for making the Gensis the hit it was. SoJ made Sonic. SoJ was also responsible for the Saturn, this is really what went wrong here. The Saturn was a good system but they just didn't play to it's strengths in the US. I think they should have simply released more of the JP exclusives the system is now known for, but they didn't.

>>11971890
>Look up their stupid suggestions to redesign Sonic
qrd

>>11972016
I'm not him and SoJ also did retarded shit on their own, such as lack of system selling games for the Saturn and rushing ports. But pretending SoA were victims is laughable.

>>11972023
Their suggestion was to use the same tech as the N64 with Silicon Graphics, which no devs at Sega were familiar with and would further delay the console two more years as seen with the N64, on top of being too expensive/hard to manufacture at the time (1993-ish, before Nintendo signed contracts with SGI/MIPS). It also didn't help Nintendo with third parties (worse, they didn't explain to developers how to use the N64 microcode to optimize their games).

>>11972023
>Look what happened. Saturn failed across the the world except in Japan where it was tied in sales with N64.
Because SoA was retarded and wouldn't localise any of the good games and thought trying to stretch out the Mega Drive's lifespan with the 32X was the winning move

fuck SoA

>>11971760 (OP)
Maybe if they'd had kept their egos in check, they wouldn't have needed to get smacked.

>>11971824
^This.

>>11972032
Sex appeal, some people in the 90s were "sexually attracted to NiGHTs."

>>11972086
Unless you ask SoJ to make Nights 100% a woman that's not gonna work and it's still gonna be weird

>>11972063
Streets of Rage would be 10/10 but they included black people. This was completely unnecessary and really detracted overall from the game.

>>11971760 (OP)
>>11971803
The irony is that Sega isn't even a Japanese company to begin with, it was founded by a couple of new yorkers who wanted to capitalize on WWII/Post-WWII military entertainment who eventually sold the company off to the Japanese as part of the restoration project to rebuild their economy.

>>11971824
Bernie Stolar had a hand in it too. I have no idea why Sega of Japan hired the guy who was famous for rejecting PS1 game localizations if they were "too japanese-y" and almost soured Sony's relationship with Capcom and Konami if they didn't fire him early on.

>>11972107
Sega really is a Japanese company though. SoJ called the shots and all their games were made by Japs. All that shit is ear elephant.

Everytime someone seethes at criticism towards SoA, it's the usual american getting their pride hurt, and with the years the reactions have been getting very childish, which reeks of desperation.

>>11972070
Skate looks like Gary Coleman

The japanese raped Sega.

>>11972153
We could have had sequels to Kid Chameleon if SoJ didn't handcuff SoA

>>11972140

I dont know whatchoo talking bout

>>11971803
live around nips and you'll understand. it kills them when the white man mogs them in any way.

>>11971881
If that's all you got then it's grim. Most of the noteworthy games are just ports of Japanese designed stuff as well.

>>11971830
you're part of the problem, fat. now im gonna fuck a weeb up in honor of you.

>>11971878
Yokozuna was Samoan.

>>11971890
American can't face the reality

>>11972314
I'm European, pajeet. We got the superior Shinobi Saturn OST.

>>11971765
>>11971803

Japanese people are fucking retarded, they don't know anything anout business and run companies based on how many relationships they can pen with their golf buddies' companies,

Japanese men are basically insects (with insect sized micropenis) who should be banned globally from running any company

>muh small dick
15 minutes, whore

>>11972334
>t. mindbroken korean

>>11971890
>sports from others like EA
>EA
You mean EA....the WESTERN COMPANY? They have nothing to do with SoJ. Why tf are you trying to act like that's a win for SoJ? If anything that's an SoA victory.

>>11971890
wut? Sega's most successful period was a direct result of western success. Sega was never successful in japan and only barely competed once during 5th gen.

>>11972063
wtf are you even mad about?

>>11972134
Everytime someone seethes at criticism towards SoJ, it's the usual weeb faggot getting their pride hurt, and with the years the reactions have been getting very childish, which reeks of desperation.

Both were idiots to not notice that arcades were dying and home console games were taking over.
And if the majority of your popular library is arcade related, you are fucked.
They made the same mistake with dreamcast as well.

>>11973697
>if the majority of your popular library is arcade related, you are fucked.
Arcade ports benifitted the PSX and would have salvaged the N64's awful library though

>>11972062
>thought trying to stretch out the Mega Drive's lifespan with the 32X was the winning move

The Genesis was still incredibly popular at the time in America, Europe, and Brazil, but SOJ just wanted to completely ditch it in favor of the Saturn. The 32X wasn't a terrible idea, but it completely ruined Sega's reputation

>>11973645
>DMCT

>>11972153
This post gave me PTSD

>>11972063
Reminder that the Megadrive was more successfull in America and Europe than it was in Japan

Reminder that Streets of Rage was more successfull in America and Europe than it was in Japan. Especially the first game, if it wasn't for the west, 2 would probably never have been made.

>>11971760 (OP)
Get over it. SoA made nothing but slop. I have a box full of shit like Taz Mania, X Men, Toe Jam and Earl 2, ect. I can't even give this shit away on eBay let alone sell it. Couple that with changing JP cover art to some slop that the SoA Janitor whipped up, cardboard game boxes, Xeroxed instruction manuals, 32X debacle, $90+ Phantasy Star 4 and not translating The Hybrid Front and they can fuck right off.

>>11974101
>first outing was great
>therefore listen to fagmerica """"consultancy"""" that would have or already made SoR2 worse
Sonic would have been still a success even if they didn't listen to the roastie who took away his girlfriend and band.
Your logic is failing you, aussie.

>>11972054
>lack of system selling games
Only because you blocked them or didn't give them the support they desperately needed, especially the west slop they cooked up for you yanks.

>>11971824
>Tom Kalinske fucked the whole company over
The $299 guy? Sony didn't like him either despite the brilliant stunt, they wanted to sell expensive junk too.
He won in the end anyways.

>>11972032
IDW Sonic is not retro

>>11974116
This. I regularly go back to my super Nintendo games. I can't name a single Sega game that I regularly come back to. Not even one. It surprised me to learn as an adult that Sega briefly outsold Nintendo for a single moment in time cuz I've always considered it the retarded younger brother of the super Nintendo. Almost all of the games sucked and they had a 43 button controller meanwhile none of their games used more than two buttons lmao. At every twist turn and corner I have one consistent thought "what the hell were they thinking"

>>11974116
>Toe Jam and Earl 2
That game seems more appealing to me than the first, since I hear it's more of a standard platformer. (Rather than being a rogue-lite where you're randomly finding shit.)

>>11974018
>The 32X wasn't a terrible idea, but it completely ruined Sega's reputation

No. The 32x was an annoyance, and on the same level of failure as the Sega Nomad. Both added to reputation of "too many accessories" that Sega had.

What really KILLED Sega was the failure of the Sega Saturn. Turns out spending $1 billion dollars on a console that nobody (outside of Japan) wants is a bad idea. Especially when your Sega company is only worth around $4 billion dollars.

Wasn't the SoA dreamcast concept better too? More cost effective? Or is that wrong

>>11974803
>Wasn't the SoA dreamcast concept better too? More cost effective? Or is that wrong

Yes. It would have been cheaper and cost Sega less money. American Companies like Microsoft and 3dfx wanted to partner with Sega of America to help make a console. They could have offered much better deals to Sega of America.

Sega of Japan said no. And became hyper-obsessed with working with Hitachi for some reason. I guess it was a "Japanese Pride" thing. Any properly run global company would have realized that Western companies were much better in terms of money. Hitachi Japan didn't have the same resources as Western companies like Microsoft. So it COST Sega of Japan more money to make the Dreamcast.

Meanwhile both Nintendo and Sony partnered with Western companies to make the Nintendo 64 and Playstation. Lmaom

>>11974854
Why do you bring up 3dfx and Hitachi together in your troll attempt when the latter did CPUs and Sega went with a PowerVR for the Dreamcast.

Both the SH-2 and the SH-4 were excellent CPUs for the time. There was nothing wrong with Sega using them.

>>11974892
Even the 32x needed two of those fuckers.

>>11974892
>Both the SH-2 and the SH-4 were excellent CPUs for the time.

Cheap underpowered Japanese junk. Sega was their biggest customer. Almost no other company bought the chips. And when Sega stopped buying it, Hitachi shut down the production line.

Clearly there was some sort of shady kickbacks going on there.

>>11974892
The PowerPC CPU that Sega of America wanted to use was far more advanced than the Hitachi Sh4. There's a reason Nintendo used the PowerPC in the Gamecube. It's really good.

>>11975131
The point is the SH-2 was powerful and cheap compared to whatever alternative you can came up for 1992-3. The major issue with Saturn's design isn't the SH-2 or having two of them, it's the underwhelming VDP1 and the convoluted to use VDP2.

>>11975206
The GameCube also came out roughly three years after the Dreamcast, which would make that tech more affordable to use.

>>11975287
>The GameCube also came out roughly three years after the Dreamcast, which would make that tech more affordable to use.

You talk as if PowerPC WASN'T affordable to use to begin with. The cpu was already in plenty of desktop and laptops. In addition it was used in cars, planes, military hardware (tanks and planes), and even satellites. It was very affordable. Especially with economies of scale.

Meanwhile Hitachi's biggest customer was Sega. That's it. So Hitachi's chip never benefitted cost reductions seen in mass production. Setting aside fanboy tech arguments, from a purely business perspective it was a mistake to use the SH series and you know it.

>>11975412
PowerPC is just an architecture; the actual CPU used on the GameCube is didn't exist before 2000.

>>11975540
>SuperH is just an architecture; the actual CPU used on the Saturn is didn't exist before 1994.

>>11971830
You didn't say Interplay or Sierra/LucasArts so-
>console
Well that's a bit of a pain, all the games I can think off the top of my head (like Half-Life on the PS2 and Maniac Mansion on the NES) are by technicality since they were ports.

>>11975552
Although now that I can think about it, I can name games like Lode Runner that I know are important and beloved but I myself haven't played so I can't really talk there.

>>11971830
Worms... oh wait, it started out on the Amiga, so a computer port then.

>>11975548
Your false equivalency/attempt to move the goalposts doesn't refute the final architecture used in the Dreamcast being a better, more affordable choice. The 603e that was suggested was not that far from the SH4, and the PowerVR2 was the more powerful chipset.

>>11972095
>Streets of Rage would be 10/10 but they included black people.
If it didn't include any black people, then the streets would be relatively safe and every level would be mostly empty. You'd only have a couple of Galsias and the occasional sub-bosses..

>>11972107
>I have no idea why Sega of Japan hired the guy

Because he was a yes-man. He did what SOJ told him to do without arguing, and tried making the most of it. It's why the Saturn sold fuck all: Japan did not want to sell the Saturn. As early as 1995 they already went to Nvidia and 3DFX for a new chipset that can run VF3 on a console.

Kalinske was not following SOJ, he wanted to do his own things because SOJ told him to do retarded things that wouldn't work. They didn't even want to add Sonic as a pack-in because that means less software sales. Kalinske tried to sell as many consoles as he can, knowing that it will pull software sales with it, Japan did not want to sell any consoles because it generated a loss, and they just wanted their own games to be sold at a hundred thousand units because that's already massive sales compared to arcade machines. They didn't even want third parties because they were competitors on THEIR consoles.

SOJ was fucking retarded no matter what way you look at it. Kalinske did a lot of things wrong, but ultimately the only reason you are a fan of Sega in the first place is because he pushed it from an also-run company with 5% market share, to a huge phenomenon that owned half the US market.

>>11974798
32X would have been fine if the hardware included a dedicated polygon accelerator, and if the Saturn was not already coming making the 32x completely uninteresting to every developer and publisher.

No dev cared about the stopgap 32X precisely cause they focused on the stronger Saturn that was half a year away, but no consumer cared about the Saturn because they got swindled with the 32X and had enough of Sega releasing new machines to buy every year and got a Playstation instead. This is why Sega died.

>>11971760 (OP)
Sega in the present day has sonic waving the fag flag on twitter telling people to try being gay for a day

They praised art of sonic holding hands with animal blacks remembering george floyd

Sega shouldn't be around anymore. All their doing is ruining anything good they ever did

>>11975589
It's not a false equivalency, the entire SH family would not have progressed beyond the SH2 if it weren't for Sega, because they would not have been able to sell the chips at all. At most it would've been used in a few arcade machines in 96-98, none of which sold too much. They must've sold over 30 million chips to Sega alone.

>>11975589
>The 603e that was suggested was not that far from the SH4,

The PowerPC 603e was arguably better (or at least very similar), and more importantly, CHEAPER than the Hitachi SH4.

IBM is a much more rock solid company, and was willing to cut Sega of America a deal on PowerPC chips.

Meanwhile Hitachi doesn't even MAKE computer chips anymore. They exited the computer chip business in the early 2000s. Right after Sega stopped making consoles and exited the market. Hitachi had no other customers. Their entire computer division was supported by Sega.

Now explain to all us how Hitachi is a better choice than IBM? Make that make sense.

>>11975605
>32X would have been fine if the hardware included a dedicated polygon accelerator
Agreed. I don't think Sega of Japan would have allowed it because it would have taken away from Saturn's uniqueness.

>if the Saturn was not already coming making the 32x completely uninteresting
See here's the problem. Back in the 90s, We all knew another Sega console was eventually coming. We just didn't know when. MAYBE If the 32x had 2 full years of support, then everyone involved could make money from it. For example, from 1994 to 1996. Then it's possible it could have worked. Maybe.

But when Sega of Japan announced the Saturn in 1994, it 100% killed the any hope the 32x had...even if that hope was small. I don't even think Sega of America was aware of the 1994 launch date for the Saturn. They were pretty much not on good speaking terms with Sega of Japan by then.

>>11971760 (OP)
Gomen.

>>11971760 (OP)
>They were done dirty by Japan.

The funny part is that Sega wasn't even a Japanese company. It was an AMERICAN company that was sold to the Japanese in the late 1970s. It was ran quite well by the original owners for over 30+ years, but the owners wanted to retire.

Then when the Japanese got ahold of Sega, they crashed the company in about 15 years. Not even half the time of the original owners.

>>11975657
>I don't even think Sega of America was aware of the 1994 launch date for the Saturn.

They were. Kalinske told them the Saturn won't sell in America, too expensive, and the Genesis still has some years. SOJ asked him what new console will he release then to fight the Jaguar, and they plotted the 32x on a handkerchief on the spot and that was that.
Then the 32x bombed because everyone was waiting for the Saturn to come out a year later, so they quickly axed the 32x and brought the Saturn in earlier, which fucked the 32x, the Saturn, all of Sega's distribution in North America (stores refused to deal with them after this), and all good will they had with consumers.

>>11971760 (OP)
Don't think so, they lost ridiculous lawsuits to Atari, which were basically a money extortion scheme. They were good salesmen in the short term, but that's all

>>11974276
Based as fuck.
I can't believe SoA lasted as long as it did.

>>11975617
>the entire SH family would not have progressed beyond the SH2 if it weren't for Sega
Correct but this was never the point. The SuperH line was already a thing before Sega came into the picture; it was the joint venture with the improvements Sega asked for what led to the SH-2. The SH4 was literally designed for Sega and the Dreamcast, it was the Hitachi equivalent of going from the Pentium to the Pentium II.

>>11975647
>The PowerPC 603e was arguably better (or at least very similar), and more importantly, CHEAPER than the Hitachi SH4.
It was somewhat contemporary to SH4, nothing that drastic nor that far apart. Also that's by judging the spec sheet for the PC part, which only uses a single FP chip. SH4 performs much better on FP math.

>Now explain to all us how Hitachi is a better choice than IBM? Make that make sense.
The original point was for you to justify how a variant of the PowerPC 603e was "that much better of a choice" than the Hitachi SH4. Your PowerPC/Voodoo3 suggestion would have basically made Dreamcast a proto GameCube (which already kind of is architecturally) and would have performed less favorable than the actual Dreamcast did, pricing it closer to 400 eurobucks. Dreamcast was basically the perfect balance of price, performance and accessibility when it launched in Japan in late-1998 and could even hold its own against PS2 in some ways.

>Meanwhile Hitachi doesn't even MAKE computer chips anymore.
It's ok, Sega no longer makes consoles either. Serves them right for wasting money on Shenmue.

>>11971760 (OP)
>>11971803
>>11972107
>>11975958
Another day of these discordfags trying to pretend Sega of America was well ran while trying to demonize the Japanese. Sega was never a well ran company and that includes Sega of America.

>>11971830
Spyro
Crash bandicoot
Rayman
Body harvest
Space station silicone valley
Tomb raider
Zombies Ate My Neighbors
Super Star Wars trilogy
Plok

>>11976095
reminder that corporate decisions are generally a product of "meetings" rather than reflection. In a "meeting", people are placed on the spot to say whatever occurs to them to get out of the immediate momentary social challenge (i.e. the question that's just been put to them). They learn to say something confidently, rather than saying "I'm not sure" or "here's an idea". Then everyone is stuck with the decision and it plays out, to bankruptcy, demotion, crash of share value, etc in some cases. "Let's sleep on it" is NOT acceptable in meetings.

>>11977152
Regardless, Sega of America was actually successful - - - unlike Sega of Japan which had 4 failed consoles. The Japanese didn't care about Sega consoles. They were firmly a Nintendo and Sony country.

>>11977817
The Saturn was more successful in Japan than the Nintendo 64

SoJ was jealous and wanted the critical and financial success that SoA enjoyed with the Genesis throughout 1991-1994. They got their wish with the Saturn, for better and for worse. It was semi-successful in Japan and had a dedicated audience of developers and gamers. But these Japanese devs and gamers were pissed off when SoJ dropped support for the Saturn early in favor of the Dreamcast (which was NOT as successful in Japan). Saturn still could have lasted another 1 to 2 years in Japan.

>>11977848
Sega supported the Dreamcast in Japan until around 2006 or 2007.

>>11977848
In Japan, Saturn sales were strong at first. But by the time Final Fantasy 7 was announced they were falling and had cratered into the ground by the time it was released. Honestly I think SoJ realized that they needed a hail mary to keep from going bankrupt. SoJ spent too much money on Saturn and didn't get a return. SoA had already pulled the plug on Saturn in North America. And SoJ's their plans to merge with Bandai fell through. Even without funding DC development SoJ were burning through cash, it was kind of a now or never moment.

>>11972309
How, when you both live in your respective countries? :)

I feel like SoA posters are what kill any type of positive discussion about Sega on here.

>>11976538
The PowerPC 603 series was cheap as shit by 1997, due to the bad performance of its first (1994) version. By the time that trashfire had been fixed with the 603e (and slightly refined with the 603ev), nobody in the general computing world wanted them (having moved to the 604e).
They were so cheap, they were put in missile guidance systems (and other single-use designs). As such, it's simply inconceivable the SH-4 was cheaper than it.

Also, while a Voodoo 2.5 would've been worse than the PowerVR, it would've been cheaper. Admittedly, this is because NEC thoroughly shat themselves, so the CLX2 ended up more expensive, and fewer in production numbers, than originally expected. But, had they gone with the 603ev/Voodoo 2.5 option, they would've not only ended up cheaper overall compared to what they eventually got, but they would've also been able to launch sooner. A late 1997 US date was completely doable. The 603ev CPU was ready mid-1997, and the Voodoo 2.5 GPU would've been good to go by mid-autumn (if anything, the cancellation fatally delayed 3dfx's R&D pipeline).

Plus, EA would've been onboard with the job, thanks to their status as 3dfx shareholders. Meaning continued support from their catalog of titles.

>>11971830
I can do better, how about, "5 classic Western Sega Genesis games that outsold Super Metroid"
Mortal Kombat, Midway, 4 Million copies sold worldwide
Aladdin, Virgin, 4 Million copies sold worldwide
Jurassic Park, Blue Sky, 2 Million copies sold in the US alone
NBA Jam, Midway, 1.9 Million copies sold in the US alone
Mortal Kombat II, Midway, 1.8 Million copies sold in the US alone

Super Metroid, Nintendo, 1.4 Million copies sold worldwide

Sega of America may have been a bunch of blithering retards, but EA, Midway, and the European Mega Drive devs certainly weren't. EA, Midway, Europeans, and Sega of Japan all made good games for Genesis/Saturn. Sega of America/STI? The best game those faggots made without Yuji Naka holding their hand was fucking shitass overrated Comix Zone.

>>11978075
Sega posters in general are negative bitches.

>>11978260
>The PowerPC 603 series was cheap as shit by 1997
PowerPC 603 series would be cheaper to produce for IBM/Motorola, but that doesn't necessarily equate to low costs for Sega if they decide they "know what they got" with Apple being a major customer and promoter of the architecture. It's also weaker at processing 3D in stock form than the SH4 and not as powerful as SH4's internal FPU.

>They were so cheap, they were put in missile guidance systems (and other single-use designs).
Yeah and Mitsubishi and Mazda used SH2s in their cars because it was low cost and effective.

>it's simply inconceivable the SH-4 was cheaper than it.
We don't know how expensive the SH4 technically was. Given that Hitachi's CPU chip division was doing very badly with no sales aside from SoJ, they likely gave Sega a pretty good deal on the chip.

Now, the GPU, that technically should have been cheaper, but it wouldn't wow people with its graphics as much as the actual Dreamcast.

>Also, while a Voodoo 2.5 would've been worse than the PowerVR, it would've been cheaper.
It's also missing the external geometry compute unit that Sega Model 3 had.

>A late 1997 US date was completely doable.
Maybe, but with what time to prepare a solid software launch? Sonic Jam released in mid-1997, there's no way they could get Sonic Adventure ready that early "at the bare minimum", to say nothing about third parties.

>Plus, EA would've been onboard with the job, thanks to their status as 3dfx shareholders.
EA's bit about 3dfx was pure corporate bullshit on their part. EA's condition for returning to the Dreamcast was that Sega scupper their independent sports series program, since they wanted to be the sole provider for sports games. Since Sega had already invested a bunch of money into them, the answer was obviously "fuck no" and thus EA boycotted Sega for having their own far superior sports lineup from 2K.

>>11971879
QRD?

>>11979569
There's a whole video that goes enormously in-depth over the development of Saturn Virtua Racing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjhDXStrFdc

>>11973992
>Arcade ports benifitted the psx
Yes, benefitted, not defined it. When you think ps1, you don't think arcade stuff. When you think saturn and dreamcast, arcade stuff comes to mind.
>salvaged the N64's awful library though
The n64 needed practically everything except fps games. Nothing would have saved it.

>>11978280
>Aladdin, Virgin, 4 Million copies sold worldwide
>Jurassic Park, Blue Sky, 2 Million copies sold in the US alone
these two are awful games that sold well based on the IP

>>11979575
Why didn't they just give them the source?

>>11979596
Genesis Aladdin is great and Jurassic Park is rather good. Rampage Edition was better, though.

>>11971760 (OP)
Historian Ethan Johnson has just posted an interesting blog post, explaining his views on how the "Japan screwed Sega of America" narrative is flawed and not representative of Sega's business operations.
https://thehistoryofhowweplay.wordpress.com/2025/08/26/segas-one-sided-story/

>>11979631
Supposedly SEGA were "busy", but I think that's code for "fuck off."

>>11979643
>We're busy
>Here's a cab instead
lol

>>11979596
You don't have to dismiss it, Nintendobro, SNES won every other year, but most of those games are from 1992-1993 and that was a problem period for Nintendo's sales compared to Sega.

Those hit games are why Rare got contracted to make a Donkey Kong game. To compete with Aladdin.

>>11979631
Same as everything else this era. The Japanese half of Sega was too political and didn't want it to be better than Daytona USA/Sega Rally/Sega Touring, and the American devs they hired weren't good enough to actually make their own 3D engine.
>>11979643
It's usually, "We're hiring you to make a 3D engine for this port. Our guys and Lobotomy and Travelers figured it out, so can you." and then the Ameridev cries and whines and begs them for the engine to some AM2/Sonic Team game.

>>11979650
>the American devs they hired weren't good enough to actually make their own 3D engine.

They literally did tho?

>>11979652
These guys did. Some of the other devs who whined about no source code/no engine, not so much.

My point is tons of ports on Saturn run in custom engines that use no source code from the original version.

>>11976131
Still waiting for Sega games on Jaguar.
Any day now.

>>11971879
>>11979575
>>11979575
They also didn't want to have everything leaked out you retarded dipshits. Look what happened to Sonic 2.

>>11979589
>when you think PS1
>You don't think of NAMCO arcade games
lmfao this zoomer

>>11979703
These kids need to ask their momma about Namco, because Pac-Man is BASICALLY their daddy.

>>11978280
Nothing takes the cake greater than the slop SoA produced for the MEGA CD, worst of all it was extremely expensive slop.

SEGA of America was simply lucky that NEC genuinely did not care much for marketing the PC ENGINE internationally. The fact that the platform had key SEGA arcade ports such as Altered Beast, After Burner, Space Harrier would have been flat out embarrassing

>>11979631
>Why didn't they just give them the source?
Sega of Japan were the only ones that had the code, and they didn't want to share it with the American branch. Thus Sega of America just got one of their arcade cabinets and shared it with the software development team. It was the best Sega of America could do.

>>11979635
>Historian Ethan Johnson
Just another Sega of Japan fanboy weaboo. Also lmao @ "historian". Kek.

His whole argument is basically:
>I believe Sega Japan more than Sega America

And he uses the same highly flawed evidence that has been debugged countless times on this board.

The idiot doesn't even realize Sega used to BE an American company.

The idiot doesn't even realize that Sega earned most of their money through Arcade cabinet sales. Most of which were sold to America and Europe.

Total waste of a read.

>>11979824
>The idiot doesn't even realize Sega used to BE an American company.
It was as american at that point, as a Soviet tank manufacturer used to be Ford Motor Company.

>>11979839
Fool.

>When you talk about the ORIGINS of Sega, and you forget that it was an American company.

Fool.

>>11979824
>The idiot doesn't even realize Sega used to BE an American company.
Out of curiosity, are you talking about Service Games or Sega Enterprises Inc.?

>>11979852
Let me guess you think credits to the VHS goes to RCA Corporation?

>>11979824
The idiot doesn't even realize Fanta used to BE a Nazi Germany beverage.

>>11979694
What happened to Sonic 2?

>>11979906
If they're referring to the Simon Wai prototype, the commonly floated around theory was that it was a demo cart that got stolen at an NY toy fair in '92.

>>11979906
The game having numerous builds leaked, including one on usenet?
https://tcrf DOT net/Proto:Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_(Genesis)/CENSOR_Prototype

>>11979917
It's absolutely nuts how people on BBS forums at the time thought protos were "unremarkable."

>>11979919
In context, no it isn't.
>Hey here's this game for free but it's unfinished
>nevermind, the game's out now, here's the finished game, why play an unfinished game?
The autism over "lost scrimblo thing with a five hour video essay to recap how it was rediscovered" wasn't a fad yet in 1992.

>>11979839
If you write an article talking about the early days of Sega, then yes it's important to mention Sega used to be an American company until the 1970s.

Go back and edit your article. I give you a C+.

>>11979917
never heard about this before, neat

>>11979935
Fair, I forget this was during a time when cracktros were the norm and came with their own trainers.

>>11979950
>it's important to mention Sega used to be an American company until the 1970s.
Sega was American from 1969 to 1983 (owned by Gulf+Western), where the fuck did you get "the 70s?"

>>11979986
>1983
Even better. Now go edit your article like a good little boy. Tell the world that Americans controlled Sega for nearly 40 years. And the Japanese ruined the company in about 10 years.

>>11979635
Does this guy not realize that Sega made the majority of its profit through Arcade machine sales to Western countries? I hate people who pretend to be experts but can't even do basic research.

>>11979986
>Sega was American from 1969 to 1983
Sega (under a different name) was American owned from the 1940 to 1983. Do better research.

>>11979635
I remember the guy behind Saturn architecture said that Americans wanted just a more powerful Genesis to keep the devs who learned how to code for it. Those guys were even more shortsighted than japanese

>>11980152
There is merit to what the Sega America wanted. While Saturn is technically impressive from a hardware standpoint, it was a commercial failure in addressing what developers needed. It is significantly easier to code games for Genesis than it was for Saturn.

Which one was responsible for only localizing a fraction of the Saturn's library?

>>11980237
Saturn was such a massive failure in the West that it wasn't financially worth localizing any Japanese games. It would cost more in localization than it would gain in profit from game sales. There weren't enough Saturn owners in the West to make localization profitable.

>>11980237
They were doomed to failure from 97 onward, but they could have more gracefully exited the console market if they just supported Saturn with new games and imports until 2000. The best games from 98 are still competitive with PS1 for the most part graphically, the really crazy PS1 stuff wouldn't come out until the DC was already out.
Developing, marketing, and releasing the Dreamcast cost way more than it would have cost to simply market and support the Saturn properly for a few more years. Profits collapsed in 96-97, but they didn't go into the red until the Dreamcast released. Sega had lost so much money by the time they quit making consoles the dying former company president had to sell all his stock back at a loss and then donate half a billion dollars of his personal money to them to save them from bankruptcy. This was such a big deal that the Japanese government officially honored him for saving a historic Japanese business from failure.

>>11980262
>They were doomed to failure from 97 onward, but they could have more gracefully exited the console market if they just supported Saturn with new games and imports until 2000.

Why? Even Sega Japan abandoned the Saturn by 1998 and focused all their attentoon on Dreamcast. Why should America support Saturn more than Japan did? Even Japanese developers were annoyed at Sega for abandoning Saturn so early, and they wanted at least another year or two with the Saturn. But Sega Japan was go hellbent on pushing Dreamcast out by 1998 in Japan.

The more I read about Sega Japan, the more I am astounded at how badly they ran their company. Departments don't communicate to eachother, Internal rivalries, Ignoring the needs of other branches, focusing on pure hardware and not good games, not supporting developers, etc.

Not just Sega Japan's video game division, but also their other divisions. Sega Japan Pinball was so poorly run that arcade operators couldn't get spare parts or support. for their Sega pinball machines. How do you go from near #1 in the world for gaming to bankruptcy in just 10 years? It's like they were trying to crash the company.

>>11979703
>You don't think of NAMCO arcade games
No you don't, minus Tekken. Ridge racer was nothing compared to gran turismo for the majority of the fanbase. And nobody thought the ps1 was a fighting powerhouse, that was reserved more for the saturn.

>>11979824
>dude it used to be an american company
>because the name came from two importers of jukeboxes to japan and the japanese bought them out several decades before they made anything resembling a game
SoA fags are genuinely delusional retards.

>>11980862

The Japanese were handed a profitable global amusement Sega company, and after 10 years it was on the brink of bankruptcy.

Just take the L and move on.

>>11980097
>I know history
>I think that Service Games and Sega Enyerprises are the same company

>>11980864
>The Japanese were handed a profitable global amusement Sega company
A jukebox importer that was already well and over with by the time the japanese bought it.
This isn't a board for jukebox enthusiasts either you mouthbreathing subhuman.

Why do americans get so butthurt and try to take credit for things they didn't do? (besides sabotage the western library for it)
If you wanted cred for the console market you can at least bring up things you actually made.
Like the Atari Jaguar.

>>11980879
We invented video games and this makes you seethe 3rdy.

>>11980880
British invented video games with OXO in 1952.

>>11980884
>ESL
Don't care.

>>11980879
We kinda respect Nintendo and Sony. But we laugh at Sega Japan. They were fools that threw it all away. All for their "Japan-first! " obsession.