Thread 11973581

Consider the following.
Green circle: "Home" button (the button you usually hold to run or shoot)
Green lines: The buttons you can easily reach while holding the "home" button
Red lines: The buttons that are annoying to hit while holding the "home" button, at least while avoiding hitting other buttons by accident.

How about different consoles offer different games and experiences

>>11973581 (OP)
I like sega and atari and 8 bit computers and arcade and PlayStation and xbox and 16 bit computers and coleco and vetrex and intellivision and old handheld like the mb and grandstands and PC and C/PM etc the only thing I really do not care for is Nintendo and it's franchises I do not like them at all.

Ah yes, le epic thread from v made again on vr and resetting the whole discussion so you can sit through people pointing out the flaws in your argument all over again.

>>11973581 (OP)
>6-button is better
If that was true it'd be the standard.

what now niggy

>>11973662
this is actually optimal and i don't know why something like it was never widely adopted

>>11973664
Gamecube's weird narrow X and Y buttons feel so unsatisfying when you press them.

It just doesn't feel good. Buttons should be circles, period.

>>11973675
I think it's perfect. If the pad of your thumb is resting on the A button, they're well shaped for the tip of your thumb or the side of your knuckle.

>>11973662
I got the PowerA GCN controller thinking it'd be a decent third-party controller, but no. It's a cheap, lightweight POS that doesn't even have analog triggers.

>>11973664
Is there a patent involved or something?

>>11973675
disagree

>>11973664
>>11973662
In a world where the GameCube was followed up with a "GameCube 2" (rather than the underpowered waggle shitbox that is the Wii), I like to think the GCN button arrangement would've become the defining feature of Nintendo controllers to this day.

If only Shitoru Shitwata didn't fuck everything up...

>>11973581 (OP)
Depends on the genre, but either is good. I like 6 button for fighting games but you can play them fine with 4 button too.

>>11973662
That fucking thing looks like something that fell out of a toddler stroller

Fighting game pads shouldn't be the standard for all games...
Four face buttons and four shoulder buttons is a nice and easy configuration, any more buttons and it all goes to hell.

>>11973581 (OP)
With the playstation controller I can press all the buttons at once if I want to. Every button combination is easily accessible except for triangle + x and square + circle. I never got how you're supposed to hold Sega's 6 button controllers. Even for fighting games they're worse, as you might have to do combinations like A + C in the picture there which are impossible with your thumb. I've seen people using those for fighting games with the controller on their thigh, thumb on the d-pad, fingers on the buttons, at which point you might as well use an arcade stick if you need to hold it in a way where you can't even play while standing if you want to.

Sega is so contradictory and gay because they were always desperate to beat nintendo and be Numbah 1 nippon zaibatsu but they also wanted to be "different" ("different" was a brand back then, like "alternative" but quirkier)

>>11973581 (OP)
for retro games, i agree. for modern games using the right stick and analog triggers a lot, 6 buttons take up too much space.
microsoft tried it with the xbox, and neither of their layouts felt natural compared to having 4 face and shoulder buttons.

>>11976363
Well Xbox went the semi-N64 route and made a 6-button pad where two of the buttons are too far away to really use in gameplay (not that they didn't try, fucking Tony Hawk used it for reverts). Sega's layout works out a lot better

>>11974317
In this world Nintendo crashes and burns being relegated to only making handhelds... as I typed this I realized this already happened so I dunno nigga maybe they would have jumped on the train sooner. Regardless the Wii made Nintendo so much money it's nuts. Normally consoles sales don't actually make much or any profit but in the case of the Wii they made bank off of hardware and software.

>>11973662
The main problem with that shitty controller is:
>c-stick
>no click analogs
>shitty z button
>shitty d-pad
>no "rz" button
But I must admit its 4-button layout is based and Nintendo did the right call with that big A button. Its dual stage analog triggers are peak.

>>11973581 (OP)
now see how many buttons you can comfortably press at the same time.
4 shoulder buttons enable more. not that you can't have 6 face buttons and 4 shoulder buttons, but it may be too many buttons that way.

>>11976363
The Xbox Duke was easily the best controller of its generation. You could press ABXY all at once with just one finger. However, the black and white buttons felt awkward, as they weren’t the same size and didn’t offer the same feedback as ABXY. If the black and white buttons had been paddles instead, that small change could have made it near perfect.

>>11973647
>If that was true it'd be the standard.
Standards aren't always based on what works best, there are other considerations like what's cheaper to manufacture, what a console supports, and what's "good enough" for most games.
OP's right, six face buttons is better.

>>11976813
Could be worse. You could not even have a c-stick at all.

>>11977005
The Dreamcast controller features a hall effect analog stick, which already outclasses the GameCube controller. The VMU was a brilliant concept as well. Plus, its D-pad is better (even though it’s not great... but that generation had some of the worst D-pads ever). I genuinely believe the Dreamcast controller is par if not better to the GameCube's.

>>11973662
lmaowned.

Ok but have you considered that shapes are easier to learn and recognize than letters for the average person?

>>11973581 (OP)
There is like 10 games on the saturn that use six buttons. Even sega noticed it and reduced the number on the Dreamcast. Not a single sega game used 6 buttons either. Even their fighters were all 3 button affairs.

>>11973581 (OP)
>holding square on the ps controller
>can easily hit triangle
what???

>>11973581 (OP)
This.

It's good to see people are waking up.

>>11973581 (OP)
Rather have back buttons.

>>11977617
You can have both, but they don't make controllers like that anymore AFAIK.

>>11977650
What about the Deck's back buttons? I've always found them useful for emulators, mainly so my hotkeys for save/load state and rewind/fast forward don't get taken up by any of the important buttons.

>>11973581 (OP)
Consider the following: *Shits pants*.

>>11977664
Most lucid anti-6-face-buttons argument

>>11977654
Yeah, having a few extra buttons is great for emulation.

The best emulator gamepad I ever found was the old Saitek P990. D-pad, two analog sticks, seven face buttons + an led toggle, and four shoulder buttons. You could configure it to be a pretty good approximation of pretty much any console's controller you can think of, and having ~14 buttons to configure gives you plenty of room to put a couple of buttons on stuff like that. It didn't hurt that it was responsive and had a nice feel, either.

I'll never forgive Logitech for buying them out and shelving all their designs, just so they could shut down a rising competitor. The fucks

>>11978123
*6 face buttons + an led toggle
The LED button was nice for stuff like toggling warp mode, so it lights up when it's on.

>>11973581 (OP)
I used to play everything I emulated with a PS1 controller. Then I got an actual Saturn and now I'm so annoyed by the Playstation/SNES controller that I don't see myself emulating anything until I run out of Saturn games to play. Genesis had this problem where there just weren't enough buttons so things got mapped in stupid ways, but pretty much every Saturn control scheme, except the much-memed "b as accept button," just works and makes sense.

PS1 has a major problem. You either rest the base of your thumb on X and hold the tip of your thumb over square, or you kind of hover between X and O awkwardly. On both PS1/SNES the Triangle/X button feels like its a mile away from the bottom 3 buttons. If you're hovering over Square, you have to reach BACKWARDS to hit O. I have like 20,000 hours on Sony hardware in my life and it never stops being annoying.

Genesis perfected the D-Pad.
Saturn perfected the 6-button.
Saturn pad with good triggers and sticks would be the perfect controller. I know Retrobit makes one of those, but I hear it's not that great. Someone needs to make one that completely replaces all 4 major Saturn Controllers, they say Retrobit has driver issues on that front.

>>11973662
>let's increase the distance between buttons by making them asymmetrical so you can't press BAX together in fighters
Nintendo is the dumbest company in the world.

>>11973581 (OP)
How is x not annoying to hit on the saturn pad?

>>11973581 (OP)
>>11973662
Now everyone is happy

>>11978123
A friend of mine had one, and I tried it with PJ64 and Halo CE. Back then, I thought it was the best PC gamepad ever. I used to play with an Xbox S controller connected through a USB-socket-cable-thingy.

>>11973581 (OP)
Why didn't we get a mixture of these? N64 did it... it should've become the standard, XBOX tried to pull it off, but it didn't work.

>>11976363
We'll never have such a clear, objective "best controller around" ever again like the Duke was. That controller was bliss.

Anyone here own a Retroflag Controller M? Is the dpad alright or shitty like the 8bitdo M30? Considering getting one if the dpad is alright

>>11980827
M30 has a great pad though, what are you going on about?

>>11982391
Not him but I have an M30 and it doesn't have a pivot. Use a real/Retro-Bit Saturn controller or 6-button Genesis controller and it'll have a pivot in the middle of the dpad. The 8bitdo M30 doesn't have this, meaning you can mush the whole dpad in. It'll also register more false diagonals due to this. It's not good.

>>11973581 (OP)
Why care about this shit? Those Sega controllers are never coming back. Get the hell over it.

>6 face buttons
>remove the 2 analog shoulder buttons, leave the 2 trigger should buttons
perfection

>>11983124
Basically the Duke controller with better face button placement. Agreed.

>>11983124
>>11983132
how about more buttons
just maximum buttons
why don't we do this in society

>>11983136
King of Misinput

Consider the following: Sony controllers are 6-button as well, they just moved Z and C to the top and called the L2 and R2, which allows for more button combinations.

>>11983136
I'd buy it!

Barely any game needs 6 front buttons. It is only needed for Capcom fighters but those are better played with a stick anyway. Choosing 4 front buttons and 4 shoulder buttons is a better decision.
And btw, Capcom fighters didn't need to have 6 buttons either, it's a retarded legacy from SF1 and its pressure sensitive punch and kick buttons with 3 levels each which often broke and had to be replaced with regular buttons. SF2 would've been just as good if it only had 4 buttons.

>>11983167
True, but the 3 lower buttons layout like the megadrive had is unironically a lot more comfortable than the diamond. And the extra 3 buttons can be relegated to less active functions, that you won't be clicking often in the middle of things

>>11983124
>analog shoulder buttons
Do any games actually use those in a meaningful analog way? Because every game I've played that uses them just utilizes them as normal buttons with the annoyance of being harder to push and no tactile feedback when it actually registers.

>>11983167
>>11983180
You guys aren't playing the right games.

>>11983182
Post games that need 6 face buttons

>>11983189
Off the top of my head? Loads of fighting games are built for it. I use all 6 when emulating N64 games because that thing had so many controls to map.

Analog triggers are great for driving games, so you can have fine control over acceleration and braking rather than zero-to-stomp-it-like-a-psycho being your options, or worse, using an analog stick for gas+brakes

>>11983195
Anon, I've just said that 6 face buttons are only needed by Capcom fighters. Also, Killer Instinct but who cares about that one? The absolute majority of fighters are fine with 4 buttons. Tekken, Mortal Kombat, the entire SNK catalog etc. And like if you're serious about fighting games you just invest into a stick or a special 6 button pad anyway. No other game in any other genre needs six buttons. Platformers, shooters, racing games, sports games. For 99% of games four front buttons and four shoulder buttons are enough. N64 controller needed a second stick instead of C-buttons.
>Analog triggers
I don't think anyone is debating this, analog triggers are great. I think that anon above meant analog shoulder buttons which are not triggers, like what a PS2 controller has. Those are shit and proper triggers are better.

>>11983214
Don't know what to tell you, man. I have a 14 button controller and use all fuckin' 14 of them regularly in various games and emulators. I don't understand people who tell me I shouldn't use that many buttons.

Could I get by with less? Probably, for a lot of things. Should I want to? No, why? For what purpose?

>>11983175
literally a duke controller

>>11983175
You don't need that many buttons

>>11983315
You don't need that many buttons

>>11983195
>driving games
gross, I drive enough irl, I don't want to drive in a video game

>>11983509
But you can run over hookers, and not deal with real police knocking on your door

>>11983521
GTA is neither exclusively a driving gamr nor a particularly mechanically serious one

>>11983530
Did I say it was?

>>11983536
slide your GTA disc in between your buttcheeks and into your arsehole

>>11978123
The D-Pad feels worse on a Saitek p990, with very flimsy plastic. Saturn is far much better and is also much lighter. However, I wish there was a controller that had 2 oval Genesis/Megadrive buttons above the 6 button configuration alongside the middle start/select/home buttons.

>>11983578
What for?

>>11973581 (OP)
Sega has NEVER made a controller that didn't suck ass.

he'd rather have...
a buffalo...

>>11983578
Yeah, the d-pad is the weakest part of the Saitek. Mine eventually broke, and replacing it is basically impossible. It's still semi usable, but I'd love to replace the old thing with a newer model, but oh wait -- nobody makes anything like it anymore!
Which sucks bad enough without the NPC brigade chanting "you don't need more buttons, the industry told us what is best" any time the subject comes up. Why are they like that?