Thread 11974264

Sonic Heroes genuinely gorgeous, why did it get so much hate in 2003? It's far more colorful and fun than the dark and edgy Sonic Adventure 2.

The bass on this game's soundtrack is incredible

Was it really hated? People thought it was just alright

>why did it get so much hate in 2003?
it looks nice, sounds nice (outside of the constant anime yelling) but isn't very fun to play.
it got hate because it's mediocre when people were expecting greatness from a series that used to be compared to Mario.
i 100%'d it back in the day just because i bought the damn game at full price for my birthday money. otherwise i probably would've shelved it halfway through.

>>11974264 (OP)
Because it’s really not that good? SA was impressive and people liked it but it was diminishing returns after that. Sonic got to the point where the only people who really cared about it were little kids or “Sonic Fans” who will play anything and twist themselves into knots trying to convince you a mediocre 3D Sonic game is actually good.

It looks and sounds gorgeous but it just isn't all that fun to play. Especially the later stages.

>>11974283
And especially especially the mandatory Special Stages that are so fucked-up with its physics that winning them is a coinflip at best. The only consolation is that it's easy to use Team Rose to keep farming keys for entry.

>>11974264 (OP)
>Sonic Heroes genuinely gorgeous, why did it get so much hate in 2003?
Because it's not Sonic Adventure 3.

>It's far more colorful and fun than the dark and edgy Sonic Adventure 2.
That's part of the problem. We wanted a cool SA2 sequel with lots of attitude and an engaging story. Instead we got a Mario-ified kiddy game.

Admittedly, Heroes is still a lot better than anything out of the 2010s "Meta Era" of Sonic.

>>11974314
>Heroes is still a lot better than anything out of the 2010s "Meta Era" of Sonic.
Heroes is a lot better than anything that came after it except Advance 3 and Mania

>>11974314
>We
fag

Hi, would you like to sharpen a pencil?

>>11974314
>lots of attitude
Be careful what you wish for.

>>11974382
Yes, I did wish for that. Shadow the Hedgehog is an absolutely kino game.

>>11974264 (OP)
Because playing the game is an exercise in frustration and torture

>>11974383
I've never played it before, but I heard it was extremely repetitive if you wanted to see the "true" ending. Wasn't there some sort of QOL hack that removed that requirement?

sonic heroes' in-game characters look like waxy plastic. gameplay is padded to hell and back with fetch missions and grinding sections. quantity over quality.

>>11974406
>gameplay is padded to hell and back with fetch missions and grinding sections.
I gotta agree on this one, Team Chaotix is easily the low point of the game.

they cooked with the soundtrack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pem63KsmUJI

>>11974264 (OP)
>cherry-picked screenshot from a mediocre game
>“it's gorgeous, guys”

>>11974421
OP's picrel isn't even the most visually stunning part of the whole game compared to Egg Fleet.

>>11974421
>cherry-picked
All of the worlds look great

>>11974383
Shadow feels like cancer after Heroes.

>>11974425
>>11974430
I just watched a playthrough and 98% of it looks mid as hell. Sonictards must literally have an 85 IQ to be impressed by this trash. Holy fuck.

>>11974264 (OP)
>Sonic Heroes genuinely gorgeous, why did it get so much hate in 2003? It's far more colorful and fun than the dark and edgy Sonic Adventure 2.
This is the lamest thing I've seen posted on this board. Auster is above you.

>>11974435
That's because it's people who generally suck at the game who are playing it. If you see a typical speedrun, it's a lot more interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz-wQUgJlpM

>>11974435
If you aren't a fan of classic Sonic then you won't understand

>>11974435
>watched a playthrough
t. twink zoom zoom

>>11974264 (OP)
Perhaps because the actual game didn't run at 2K internal resolution without jaggies? are zoomers this braindead?

>>11974418
I can't ever hear the first stage theme without singing along to Seaside Denied.

>>11974442
I think it looks better at 480p. It's harder to see the seams between skybox and geometry for example.

>>11974264 (OP)
Presentation wise it's superb. Unfortunately it's also a buggy piece of shit with a physics system that doesn't work properly half the time. I have a lot of nostalgia for it as it was my first Sonic game but objectively speaking it's seriously flawed.
Soundtrack goes hard though.

>>11974435
>I just watched a playthrough

>>11974264 (OP)
>Sonic Heroes genuinely gorgeous
Only the seaside levels.

>>11974435
It’s the definition of mid. The only reason it’s paraded around here is because mid is the best you’re gonna get for this era of sonic.

Heroes has excellent environement design for the hardware but the character models took a clear hit and make the game look cheaper than SA2. Thats not even going into the physics which is a big step back (More speed, less precision, more bottomless pits to punish the player)

>>11974264 (OP)
Like everyone else is saying, it looks amazing and the music is great but it plays like dogshit. It takes the Sonic and Shadow stages from SA2 and tries to do WAYY too much with them by adding segments from the Tails/Dr. Eggman and Knuckles/Rouge stages rather than focusing on speed and rewarding stage memorization and good reaction times.

>>11974264 (OP)
Pretty sure you're showing a modded screenshot there...

>>11974635
Specifically, an emulated screenshot.

>>11974615
>(More speed, less precision, more bottomless pits to punish the player)
Shadow tries to address some of this but ends up feeling dull to play and the level design doesn't quite accommodate it, on top of the stages filled with thousands of enemies and the horrible combat. If you're good in Heroes, you can blaze through stages and feels quite satisfying to pull it off. Also, what's wrong with bottomless pits? The game is already charitable enough with the Fly formation. I have more of an issue with things like landing in a new area of the sateg and being hit by an enemy you couldn't even see due to the camera.

>>11974615
>the character models took a clear hit and make the game look cheaper than SA2
SA2's character models and textures are ugly as sin, I have always hated those uncanny realistic textures slapped on anthro characters. Heroes did it right t.b.h.

>>11974701
The models are designed right but even back in 2004 I thought sonic and friends looked more low poly than SADX and SA2 models.

>>11974693
I feel the same about Shadow's game. At that point they made it too slow and also downgraded the level design.
>Also, what's wrong with bottomless pits?
For me its flubbing an input on a rail and watching the characters slowly plunge into the abyss, ruining the A-rank on a stage that is 10+ minutes. On reflection its really the stage lengths that make fall deaths extra painful. SA2 was way less likely to kill you from a fall and if so, the stages were very quick anyway so it doesn't feel like a setback.

>>11974706
>looked more low poly
yeah, they're lower in poly count but i was moreso referring to how they stylistically appear. more polygons does not always equal better, and SADX is another perfect example of that

>>11974435
supreme bait

>>11974383
Based

>>11974701
>SA2's character models and textures are ugly as sin, I have always hated those uncanny realistic textures slapped on anthro characters. Heroes did it right t.b.h.
Realistic? Are you out of your mind? SA2 isn't realistic. The game is anime-styled if anything.

>>11974615
>the character models took a clear hit and make the game look cheaper than SA2
SA2 models aren't particularly worth writing home about.

>>11974442
Game looks best at 480p with AA.

>>11974264 (OP)
It's a GameCube game so /vr/ chuddies automatically hate it.
Cube GODS who played it loved it.

>>11975430
It was on every major platform.

>>11974264 (OP)
It's a GameCube game so /vr/ chuddies automatically hate it.
Cube GODS who played it loved it.

>>11974264 (OP)
It was different from hate, it was the first main sonic game underwheilming for me.
People looking at it casually couldn't understand why I called it mediocre compared to the older games, they just thought sonic was always middling and I was growing out of it.
I don't hate heroes, but it really was the start of the downfall of sonic as a big gaming icon.

>>11975434
/vr/ is a CHADcube board. Simple as.

Because the levels are 10 fucking minutes long and absolutely riddled with obnoxious bottomless pits

>>11975689
All they had to do was split each level in two.

>>11975689
I don't even have a problem with this, it's just that you have to play through the game 4 times. Team Chaotix is different enough, yes, but I'm still not a fan. Should've removed it and Team Rose entirely. And even then everyone including me would complain about having to beat the Team Dark campaign to unlock the final stage because it's essentialy the same as Team Sonic except harder. Advance 1, 2 and Rush 1 suffer from the same problem, like why make you beat the same damn game multiple times? Fuck that shit seriously. Apparently Shadow the Hedgehog is like 10 times worse in that regard but I didn't even bother trying it. Getting the 'true' ending in Advance 2 has got to be one of the worst video game experiences I've ever had but I know there are people here who went even further and unlocked Amy, you guys are genuinely crazy and that's coming from someone who played through Drakengard 2 three times to get the final ending

>>11974569
Mmm...yeah, I guess. The others are either sparse or visually busy.

I wouldn't hold that against the game (since there's plenty of shit worth holding against it otherwise).

>>11975980
>Should've removed it and Team Rose entirely.
Not Team Rose. They're the only thing that makes those horrible Special Stages have any chance of completion.

>>11974701
>>11974706
Sonic Adventure 2 had higher poly models

>>11976175
>Sonic Adventure 2 had higher poly models
SA2 didn't have 3 characters at once.

>>11976184
Just blame everything on the engine switch.

How can anyone say SA2 looks better than Heroes?

>>11976147
I usually get the emeralds with Team Sonic

>>11976204
Team Sonic was clearly the original intended design.

Team Dark is hard mode.

Team Rose is easy mode.

Team Chaotix is fetch quest mode.

>>11976208
Yeah, obviously. I'm not against getting the emeralds with Team Rose of course because those special stages are fucking garbage but still their campaign is completely unnecessary. Like even storywise, was the fuck is Big even doing with Amy and Cream? I'm not the most hardcore Sonic autist so I don't know, maybe he met them and they became friends in one of the comics and shit, I don't know anything about Sonic's non-vidya media

>>11976214
>Like even storywise, was the fuck is Big even doing with Amy and Cream?
They just kind of met up on happenstance following the tabloids. Froggy and Chocola disappeared, Sonic is apparently involved, Amy loves a good mystery/adventure and is friendly enough to let them join her on her never-ending Sonic-chasing quest and knows the arrangement is mutually beneficial, win-win.
out-of-universe answer: They wanted to pair up Cream with Amy from the start but thought Rouge deserved to be in Shadow's team so they needed a quick filler and gave Big a second chance.
>their campaign is completely unnecessary.
Amy gains team-managing experience that she needed to grow further, and it's through copying Froggy and Chocola that Metal Sonic gains Chaos' DNA so their disappearance is somewhat important to the plot.
>maybe he met them and they became friends in one of the comics and shit, I don't know anything about Sonic's non-vidya media
You'd get more confused if you dabbled into non-game Sonic media for answers since they're AU for the most part.

>>11976326
Cream was essentially created to give Amy another girl character to talk to since she doesn't really interact with Rouge.

>>11976337
That's true, but in practice, outside of Sonic X and Sonic Battle, Cream wasn't so much Amy's answer to Sonic's Tails so much as another attempt at a kid sidekick for a younger generation.

>>11976349
I think the tale goes that Cream was made for Sonic X first and her initial game appearances were cross-promotion for her introduction.

>>11976351
She was allegedly made for the games in Sonic Heroes, but the internal Sonic X pilot that apparently dated circa 2001, before Sonic Heroes entered production in April 2002, already had Cream and Cheese (er, "Chao"). So either the initial pilot wasn't produced in 2001 like it's been widely claimed, or Sega's doing a legal smokescreen to hide her true origins, like the Sonic 3 OST.

>>11976367
What I heard is that the reason Cream took so long to be introduced in the Archie comics is because Sega thought she was owned by the anime and thus was off-limits, and they had already cracked down on Archie sneaking in characters from the OVA and Fleetway comic. It took a while to convince them otherwise.

>>11975434
>It's a GameCube game
Why the pointless console war? It's a multiplat game that showed up on all 6th gen consoles, as well as PC.

>>11976520
Though I gotta say, if you play the PS2 version, I genuinely feel bad for you.

>>11976214
Here's a pro top to make the special stages less painful, hold B instead of tapping it. Make sure to play as the power character while you're doing it, otherwise you'll go too fast with the speed character. (Or too slow with the flight character.)

>>11976147
>>11976214
Apparently the special stages work worse on GameCube, according to this page.
https://sonicheroesspeedruns.fandom.com/wiki/Version_Differences

Can anyone verify it? I recently replayed the GameCube version and it feels like at some points it controls fine, but then the handling go to shit.

>>11974264 (OP)
I don't like the plasticy look of the character models.
>>11974314
>Because it's not Sonic Adventure 3.
This.
Also, we didn't know it at the time, but Heroes killed Sonic Adventure 3.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreleased_Sonic_the_Hedgehog_games#Sonic_Adventure_3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Adventure_2#GameCube_port
>but Unleashed!
Murdered by the Werehog.

>>11976595
>Heroes killed Sonic Adventure 3.
Nah, that would be 06. Most people tend to deny it, but it's spiritually SA3.

>>11974264 (OP)
Sonic Heroes sucks dick.

>Play the same game three times
>Levels start dragging
>Team Chaotix is AIDS

If you just play Team Sonic it's okay I guess.

>>11976606
Probably a combination of both, changing up the gameplay and making Sonic the only playable character (technically) was a direct response to Sonic 06. But if the Dreamcast lasted just a little longer, we'd have had a proper SA3 instead of Heroes, which was made to reach out to the multiplatform audience.
In retrospect, Naka seemed to have left in frustration because he had a much different SA3 in his head and was tired of all the dicking around.

>>11976635
>But if the Dreamcast lasted just a little longer, we'd have had a proper SA3 instead of Heroes, which was made to reach out to the multiplatform audience.
>In retrospect, Naka seemed to have left in frustration because he had a much different SA3 in his head and was tired of all the dicking around.

Iizuka himself stated that Sonic Adventure 2 was sent on the discontinued Dreamcast as a swan song.

>>11976646
Heroes was Iizuka's baby; Naka wanted to make SA3, and formal production was just about to start when the team got the news that the Dreamcast would be discontinued and Sega was officially going third-party.

>>11974264 (OP)
The characters play like shit compared to their Adventure selves to force the team and level up gimmicks.
>Sonic's iconic spindash is replaced with a nerfed "Rocket Accel" that randomly fails half the time, and homing attack is weak until you level up
>Tails is a clunky totem pole who can barely even fly (he just hovers a few meters without being able to increase his altitude), his main attack literally does nothing at all until level 2, and his solo attack clutters the stage with dumb "dummy rings" (Charmy and Cream are fine, but why the fuck didn't Tails and Rouge just get their tail spin and kicks?)
>Knuckles goes from gliding, climbing and digging to only floating on top of conveniently placed fans
Amy and Big were the only ones whose movesets improved from SA1 (the belly flop alone would make Big so much more fun to play as in it), and they're still nerfed compared to the others who were already bad. The others fire projectiles at their surroundings, but Big just becomes a sitting duck shouting about the Tories while swinging his rod in an overly wide radius that barely hits anything unless you're somehow entirely surrounded by enemies at just the right distance. That's not even getting into the overly long levels that spam bottomless pits and the obscene health bars of the enemies.

>>11976694
>Heroes was Iizuka's baby
So were SA1 and 2, he directed them.

>>11976595
>>11976694
I never understood the idea that they NEEDED to make Heroes to appeal to the multiplat audience.

They could have easily approached things something like:
Holiday 2001 - Sonic Adventure 1 port to PS2, GC and Xbox
Holiday 2002 - Sonic Adventure 2 port to PS2, GC and Xbox
Holiday 2003 or 2004 - Sonic Adventure 3 simultaneous release on PS2, GC and Xbox

I always just assumed they never wanted to do that, which was why SA1 and 2 were ported only to GameCube rather than being given the whole multiplatform push.

>>11976961
I think they wanted to make another soft-reboot but it just never quite happened (at least not successfully).

>>11974264 (OP)
>>11974425
You fags are so easily impressed.
>DUDE WATER
>DUDE TROPICAL SETTING
>DUDE PRIMARY COLORS
Calling this "gorgeous" is hilarious. It looks fairly standard its era.

>>11974264 (OP)
The dark, gritty, and edgy game in question

>>11977070
It's beautiful by the standards of Sonic games. Although, I can see where you're coming from when you compare Sonic Heroes to other games from that era.

>>11977070
Enough about the piss filter craze

>>11977070
For me, it's Casino Park

>>11974264 (OP)
People wanted SA3.

switching between characters was a horrible gimmick. just give me fun platform levels.
also didn't have Chao or Adventure Stages or anything.
plasticky models were awful.
cutscenes were bad.
Tails' voice was grating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCbZddJt_V0&
this is a damn good music track though.

>>11974264 (OP)
Anyone else seen these classics?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veLTMMiDjh8
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSj7yRyPWaQ

The chaos emerald stages were a pain in the ass

>heroes is actually great guise!!
>only discusses the visual aspects and soundtracks while ignoring the gameplay
Every time.

>>11975434
Anyone with a Gamecube or Dreamcast had already played the Adventure games and would have seen through Heroes' mediocrity. Thirdies who only had PS2s are the ones who rate Heroes.

>>11977842
>Thirdies who only had PS2s are the ones who rate Heroes.
Yeah, surely only the ones with the shittiest version of the game would rate it well.

>>11978276
Being the first Sonic game on a Playstation was a big enough deal that it was on the box. There's definitely a connection there.

>>11977370
>Still no Casino Park installment

>>11979292
Dunno about that chief, but I liked it on my GameCube.

>>11979292
The Xbox version has the same thing on the box.

>>11974264 (OP)
It's good, but it's no Sonic Adventure 2.

>>11979936
Thank god.

It's kind of funny that they put that "press A to jump!" tutorial in the Amy team as if you didn't already beat the Sonic and Shadow teams

>>11981863
You're meant to start with Team Rose if you're new to Sonic games.

>>11979292
literally nobody played sonic on the peeshit 2

>>11974283
Hang castle was good.

>>11977802
Just switch to power formation for better handling.

>>11977821
Subspace Emissary in a nutshell

>>11981875
Nealy 3 million copies was sold on there.