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Thread 12005804

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Anonymous No.12005804 >>12005852 >>12005865 >>12005871 >>12005872 >>12006472 >>12006485 >>12006490 >>12006507 >>12007059 >>12008578
How did arcade devs make money exactly? The arcade buys their PCB or cabinet, but then does every coin from a certain game get collected by an agent of the company or something? How does that process work?
Anonymous No.12005852
>>12005804 (OP)
>The arcade buys their PCB or cabinet
I think that's how the devs made their money isn't it
Then the coins go to the arcade owner since the cabinet is his now
unless I'm misunderstanding your question
Anonymous No.12005864
In Japan Namco, Sega and Taito operated their own game centers, so coins from machines also went to them.
Anonymous No.12005865
>>12005804 (OP)
If you "bought" an arcade, you are obligated to pay a fee for usage.
Anonymous No.12005871 >>12005905 >>12008578
>>12005804 (OP)
Not your personal search engines. When you have retarded and simple questions that can be answered in a few seconds of search engine, do so
Anonymous No.12005872 >>12005885 >>12005939
>>12005804 (OP)
>how did arcade devs make their money
Poorly, the answer you're looking for is poorly. Given the whole business crumbled once home devices were keeping up with arcade machines graphically
Anonymous No.12005885 >>12005906
>>12005872
I have 5 arcades within a close radius of my house. Society and the family unit and infrastructure of towns and cities killed arcades in most places. Kids are essential for them but they became dirty and seedy places hard to get to with little to no cooperative or competitive play, and units catered to an older audience who no longer wanted or felt comfortable going outside or socializing.
Anonymous No.12005905 >>12005965 >>12007047 >>12007068
>>12005871
>How dare you try to have an on-topic discussion on my Internet
Anonymous No.12005906 >>12005930 >>12007034 >>12007883 >>12008396
>>12005885
I live 20 minutes from the largest arcade in the world. People drive hours and hours just to see it, others make it a part of their vacation plans when they fly in. But that's just the thing, they had to fly in/drive hours just to see an arcade cabinet. If you're in a major city you probably have AN option.

Do you really think making Ridge Racer Full Scale and selling it to arcades for 100k a pop and designing it bespoke for each space it was installed on was profitable and sustainable for either party??? The minute the home console became competent with 3D the entire thing started collapsing in on itself
Anonymous No.12005930 >>12006037 >>12006464 >>12008623
>>12005906
Galloping Ghost?
And no, just having Ridge Racer isn't going to change much, but having the unique experience at least has something going for it. I listed all the reasons why arcades are fucked in most places, and it's a societal thing. You hear about Sega or whoever closing up in Japan, but that's because they are closing the places which became orientated around an older audience and ostracized families and kids for the most part. Family-orientated areas still make bank and are packed during peak hours. Nintendo is killing it with Pokemon Frienda right now because it is a unique experience you have to go out and play, and they have the locations and infrastructure to do it. Even if a place like USA or Canada wants to do, say they have a plan to synergize with Toys R Us or whoever (I think they closed, not sure, but whatever) and bring tons of families in to an arcade in the store who in turn get sucked into buying toys and adding to business. The family still have to drive like 30-50 minutes to some strip mall or take ghetto public transport together and deal with the people there. You also can't leave your shit lying around and have to worry about thieves or who your kid is playing with and people who don't respect rules etc. Then you have aol sorts of wierdos also there like you see aroUnd games nowadays wearing cat ears and shit or filming everyone and themselves as they shout cuss words. Kinda rambling but you can surely get the point. There is nothing you can do to save arcades in most places and it isn't the fault of home consoles, it is due to society, urban planning, etc.
Anonymous No.12005939
>>12005872
>Poorly
In the USA this was the case. The game devs were wagies and being an operator was rough because full new cabs cost as much as a car. Many arcades rented the machines and the margins for everyone involved were paper thin.
Anonymous No.12005965 >>12006239
>>12005905
Not so much a discussion as a question that has an easily searched set of answers though.
Anonymous No.12006001
>Make game
>Sell it to arcades
>Offer to service it
>Machine gets credits
>Company gets reputation amongst players for being good devs
>Also gets reputation amongst operators for making machines that make money
>Buy more from manufacturer
It's that simple
Anonymous No.12006037 >>12006041
>>12005930
Yeah galloping ghost
Anonymous No.12006041 >>12006174
>>12006037
Can you actually play all the games there? I have seen videos of shit like the old Sega mechanical games and shit, do they actually let people play them, or is it a case where so little people actually play those games that they don't have to worry about them breaking? There is one a little ways away from me with vintage machines but they only turn them on and let you play for a set fee.
Anonymous No.12006174 >>12006213
>>12006041
They're all just turned on ready to play, free play. Only things that are off are broken. They repair shit regularly but things are also old and some of the foot traffic is dumb normies not supervising their kids that don't have any appreciation for what they're fucking around with and they get too rough and fuck up a machine, I wish there was a way for them to be stricter about that but the normalfagd are probably a big part of the cash flow and it's very maze like so it'd be almost impossible to supervise people anyway. There's like 1000 machines though, they bought out the whole business strip they were originally located in and tore down all the walls to expand
Anonymous No.12006213 >>12007042
>>12006174
>They're all just turned on ready to play, free play.
For a place that large, that's a smart move else they'd lose pockets of income among the cabinets, and it cuts down on wear and tear and time too.
>"This machine ripped me off, I want my money back."
Anonymous No.12006239 >>12006419 >>12008626
>>12005965
>today I told the people in the old video game forum not to talk about old video games
You're insufferable. Go away
Anonymous No.12006419 >>12006430
>>12006239
maybe try to have a more useful topic of discussion that "HOW ARCADE MAKE MONEY?!?!?!!!!!"
fucking moron
Anonymous No.12006430 >>12006492
>>12006419
Nta, but you should go away. The OP asked a very specific question, and it provoked a series of answers that shed light on an important industry.
Anonymous No.12006464 >>12007068
>>12005930
>galloping ghost
Just read the game list from that
Hot damn, it's an entire romset
Anonymous No.12006472
>>12005804 (OP)
A lot of arcades I knew in the 90s actually rented machines from bigger warehouse companies.

Like they would rent say Street Fighter 2 from a join for $200 a month and they get to keep all the coins in the machine. It's how they had a rotation of fresh games and the ones that didn't do well would be gone quickly
Anonymous No.12006485
>>12005804 (OP)
>The arcade buys their PCB or cabinet
Usually this wasn't the case. Manufacturers almost never were able to distribute their games directly to operators, so 90% of the time they sold to distributors who would then sell/rent the games to operators (or home collectors, which didn't become common until arcades died at the end of the 90s). In the case of renting, the operator would sometimes split collections with the distributor in addition to the business owner, as some anons have already pointed out.
Anonymous No.12006490
>>12005804 (OP)
Arcade PCBs and cabinets were extremely expensive, that's how. Not only did the PCBs tend to be more elaborate tech than home games, they were sold as commercial use moneymaking devices, thereby allowing them to charge a premium.
Anonymous No.12006492 >>12006514
>>12006430
>Nta
Anonymous No.12006507 >>12007051
>>12005804 (OP)
>How did arcade devs make money exactly?
By selling cabs
A Street Fighter 2 CE cab cost $1300 in 1992 (nearly $3000 adjusted for inflation)
Anonymous No.12006514 >>12006535
>>12006492
lol because I really am a different anon. People don't want you here. Can you deal with that?
Anonymous No.12006535 >>12006538
>>12006514
>People don't want you here
Every time you make one of these threads, you're faced with immense backlash, and your response is the same every time, acting like they're unreasonable and crazy while pretending and samefagging fake support. Protip: the good threads don't get called out for being shitty. People don't want your threads, and they're pretty vocal about it.
Anonymous No.12006538 >>12006551
>>12006535
I didn't make the thread. Accept it.
Anonymous No.12006551 >>12006563
>>12006538
No. Always the same shit
>Low effort thread
>People call it for what it is
>URRRGHHH STOP COMPLAINING!!!! ALSO I'M NOT OP BTW!!! YOU'RE NOT WANTED HERE!
Jesus, you're pathetic.
Anonymous No.12006563
>>12006551
haha projection is fun sometimes I'm finding.
Seek help btw.
Might I suggest Sly Spy? It's a James Bond game, but not legally. It's grrrrrrrrrrrrreat.
Anonymous No.12006995 >>12007216
Was at the mall today with my kids

>Not really an arcade machine but a VR roller coaster device in the middle of the mall hallway
>15 credits to "play it"
>1 credit = 1 dollar
>3 year old kid pretty unplugged the USB headset and was smashing it against the ground
>His dad next to the machine on his cellphone not paying attention
Anonymous No.12007034
>>12005906
>Do you really think making Ridge Racer Full Scale and selling it to arcades for 100k a pop and designing it bespoke for each space it was installed on was profitable and sustainable for either party???

Believe it or not...It actually was profitable. The arcade industry was big enough and popular enough in the early 1990s that selling something like Ridge Racer Full Scale was viable. It earned Namco a nice profit. The 1980s to mid 1990s was the Golden Age of arcades.
Anonymous No.12007042 >>12007129
>>12006213
Galloping Ghost was the first one to popularize the free play model in the USA.

There are interviews with the Galloping Ghost owner "Doc Mack". Doc Mack said back in the mid-2000s, he tried to save the arcade industry and get other arcade owners to switch to Freeplay. Doc said it was the best way to get people interested in returning to arcades, and to reuse older cabinets.

But other arcade business owners laughed at him. They said he would be out of business within 6 months to 1 year if he used a flat fee Freeplay model. They said that using quarters was the best way for arcades to succeed.

Of course Doc Mack proved them all wrong and 15+ years later his arcade is now the biggest arcade (in terms of number of cabinets) in the entire world. People are now emailing him every day asking for advice on how to open a freeplay arcade.

The funny part is that there are few holdouts that refuse to acknowledge that Freeplay is the best way to go. These owners have YouTube channels and try to promote their arcade, but get upset or refuse to answer comments when people ask why they don't switch to Freeplay. It's really funny.
Anonymous No.12007047
>>12005905
Asking an easily-googleable question isn't discussion
>>>/google/
Anonymous No.12007051
>>12006507
>A Street Fighter 2 CE cab cost $1300 in 1992
It cost more than that. Around triple. The average price was between 4K to 7K for brand new cabinets (depending on the game). Capcom and Sega loved to charge a premium. So they were on the high end.
Anonymous No.12007059
>>12005804 (OP)
they did not atari went broke devs were utter minions bavk in the day and were lucky to even get work people who could silkscreen PCBs and design them fot all the status
Anonymous No.12007068 >>12007112
>>12006464
The last time I was at Galloping Ghost, the Gradius II machine felt sticky when I touched it. I looked down at the coin return slot and saw that someone had jizzed in it.
>>12005905
Who are you quoting? Go fuck yourself.
Anonymous No.12007112
>>12007068
>The last time I was at Galloping Ghost, the Gradius II machine felt sticky when I touched it. I looked down at the coin return slot and saw that someone had jizzed in it.

Why do you say this in every arcade discussion thread? Why? Seek help.
Anonymous No.12007129 >>12007164 >>12007169
>>12007042
>The funny part is that there are few holdouts that refuse to acknowledge that Freeplay is the best way to go. These owners have YouTube channels and try to promote their arcade, but get upset or refuse to answer comments when people ask why they don't switch to Freeplay. It's really funny.

Damn. I didn't know that they pioneered that business model or that they were doing that well. That's wonderful news. And yeah that is funny, but ya gotta understand that many of those guys are *necessarily* living in the past so it's tough to get them to change up their ways.
Nevertheless, if it were me talking to a struggling arcade owner, I'd tell him that asking people to exclusively feed quarters or tokens on these old machines is asking for trouble. While on the other hand, asking for a flat honest fee for access to functional games is a better draw because now the customer knows that the games work-and you already got their money. It's win-win. But with quarters and tokens, you're begging for more malfunctions, requests for refunds, theft, and a general loss of income because without a flat fee, people are tempted to save a few quarters. That is, if they're accustomed to walking around with coinage anymore in this debit world.
It's a hard pill to swallow, but unless it's for a period film, a museum piece, or a personal collection, the coinage model....sucks in the 21st century.
Anonymous No.12007164 >>12007237 >>12007270
>>12007129
100% agreed.

There's this Arcade YouTuber who runs his own arcade. He made video complaining that no customer were paying to play the Bad Dudes (1988) arcade cabinet, and that he was going to need to pull the cabinet from the arcade. IIRC he tried to blame the new generation of kids not being interested in old games.

But then half his comments were filled with stuff like

>"Dude you charge 50 cents for a single play on Bad Dudes. This is 2025. Are you crazy?"

Or

>"Just switch to Freeplay. People would be more willing to try older games. Stop charging for each cabinet."


Personally I think a lot of these owners grew up in the 1980s and just want to create their own personal 1980s dream arcade. They don't listen to customers or feedback. Stubborn fools!
Anonymous No.12007169 >>12007250
>>12007129
Be that as it may, there are still businesses in the US and Canada that have arcade games and consistently use the coin-op business model. They are either:
-hip, trendy barcades that use arcade games as loss leaders to get grown ups to hang around and buy more drinks
OR
-mall arcades or FECs that mostly feature merchandisers and ticket redemption games

In either case, the main way they make money is not by having normal people playing traditional arcade games.
Anonymous No.12007216
>>12006995
VR turned out to be a bubble. 7 to 10 years ago, everyone in the arcade industry thought VR was the future of arcades. They hyped it up. Sold alot of VR machines to arcades across the country.

Turns out there's a huge chunk of the population that either doesn't like putting goggles that other people touched on their face, or they get motion sickness.

Whoops.

Then Cov1d happened.

Double Whoops.

VR bubble burst.

Now it's just like any other arcade machine. It's around but people don't love it. VR isn't groundbreaking or amazing like people thought.
Anonymous No.12007237
>>12007164
>half his comments were filled with stuff like
>>"Dude you charge 50 cents for a single play on Bad Dudes. This is 2025. Are you crazy?"

Ha! I would have left a comment like that. Charging that much for Bad Dudes (Vs. Dragon Ninja) back in 1988 would have been insane enough. I mean, I personally refused to pay-at first-the dollar entrance fee to play one game of After Burner II, but now? If that guy charged a buck for that, it'd get no play too-and that particular game is in high demand.

>Personally I think a lot of these owners grew up in the 1980s and just want to create their own personal 1980s dream arcade. They don't listen to customers or feedback. Stubborn fools!

You're correct of course, and while I sympathize with those guys, most of whom are my age, yeah they are stubborn, which can be a good thing, but on this they're being foolish. Try to cut 'em a little slack, anon, they're doing the best they can and someone way back probably sold them on some 1970s/1980s quarter algebra that promises them infinitely more profits if only the games are forever locked into pay-per-play.
Anonymous No.12007250
>>12007169
I respect that those business models still exist and in an ideal world, I wish all arcade cabs were set for quarters. However, for some of those operators who cling to the notion that they're keeping it all-original so therefore they might not choose to go free play is counterintuitive since real arcades of the 70s and 80s didn't serve or even allow alcohol. So, I think those guys of all people should convert to the free play model because they got their hands full of drunks anyway. That's just for starters.

>In either case, the main way they make money is not by having normal people playing traditional arcade games.

I'm unsure as to your meaning here. Not being snarky, is that a typo?
Anonymous No.12007270
>>12007164
>There's this Arcade YouTuber who runs his own arcade.

Which guy is that btw?
Anonymous No.12007274 >>12007289 >>12007818 >>12007874
Freeplay is the ONLY way for retro arcade cabinets to still get used. No modern arcade like Dave and Busters is going to have customers lining up to play Bad Dudes from the 1980s. The younger generation won't use their limited money to play old games. Anything older than 2005 is probably beyond most kids today and uninteresting to them. Not unless it's free.
Anonymous No.12007289
>>12007274
at the bar here, people are thrilled to be putting a token or quarter in the easiest to emulate arcade games. They often are effectively free with all the discounts and freebies on various days. People dump their extras on me faster than i can spend them on pinball.
Anonymous No.12007818
>>12007274
But I don't want the younger generation to play old games either so everyone is winning here.
Anonymous No.12007874
>>12007274
>Make a stamp rally type card every week or month that involves playing on certain machines to complete and get a prize
or
>Upload a vid on social media or show staff a vid of you playing to get a special coupon
>Certain games get renewed interest, people can chat about them or see others playing to see how to do it, people find new things they like
>Make it a thing for people to complete a list of all games in the arcade
>Hold competitions
>Do history tours
There are numerous ways to do this, but it's pretty much only Japan and sometimes Taiwan that actually do them.
Anonymous No.12007883
>>12005906
The thing is they used to be everywhere, not just some one-off novelty for normalfags to gawk at.
Anonymous No.12008396 >>12009412
>>12005906
1. It was more like $250K to 300K for a Ridge Racer Full Scale, but they still made money off them.

2. You weren't around for the peak of the arcade era (Or maybe you didn't go out much during that time?). Arcade businesses were EVERYWHERE. Malls, shopping centers, bowling alleys, grocery stores, laundromats, hospitals, dentists offices, pizza places, restaurants, dentist waiting rooms, museums, etc. If they spare room, they would shove an arcade cabinet there. Sometimes it was just 1 or 2 cabinets, sometimes it would be a room of arcade machines, and sometimes even bigger.

Seeing a Ridge Racer Full Scale machine was not THAT super rare of an occurrence. Some Large arcades had them, Theme parks had them, Some Namco arcades had them, several Sega arcades had them, Even some private arcades had them, military bases had some, and even airports had a Ridge Racer Full Scale. This is how it wad during the peak of arcades until around 1996 or 1997.

It's only today 20 years later do Zoomers want to play these machines and make up stories about how ultra rare Ridge Racer Full Scale was. And write random articles about how only a handful existed. This simply isn't true. Namco probably made around 100 ridge racer full scale machines. The problem is that arcade owners all trashed and destroyed the old RRFS machines. The idea of "preserving" old arcade machines wasn't really a thing back then. Back in the golden age, arcade cabinets were plentiful and considered disposable. After 2 to 5 years, it wasn't uncommon for arcade owners to simply throw these machines in the dumpster once they stopped earning big money. No one talks about this much.

When Time Crisis 2 came out, what do you think happened to the Time Crisis 1 cabinets? When Time Crisis 3 came out, whag happened to the TC2 cabinets? Customers never seem to ask these questions. They went in the dumpster...Unfortunately.

It's only recently do people think about preserving these once plentiful machines.
Anonymous No.12008578
>>12005804 (OP)
See >>12005871
Anonymous No.12008623
>>12005930
You're right, anon. Western society doesn't cater to families anymore. An indicator of societal decline.
Anonymous No.12008626
>>12006239
He's not wrong. OP could have framed his question to accommodate discussion better, but he didn't. Just because these nerds don't need an excuse to nerd out doesn't mean OP shouldn't be a reasonable human.
Anonymous No.12009412 >>12009576
>>12008396
I can confirm this. I worked for an arcade back in the late 90s to early 2000s as a teenager. The manager ordered us to take old arcade cabinets out back and smash them. They gave us an axe. I Had to break apart an old Pac Man. Then toss the bits in a nearby dumpster. Worst one was a deluxe Sega indy 500 like in my picture. Except it was just 2 machines instead of 4 machines. I really didn't want to do it. The hydraulics were broken and the game board malfunctioned. Manager said it didn't earn any money anymore and wasn't worth repairing. I asked him why do we have to smash it. Just leave it next to the dumpster. Manager said that even though it's broken, he didn't want to help his competitors. There were 3 other arcades in the nearby area and he didn't want to risk one of them taking the machine, and fixing it and using for themselves. We also weren't allowed to take them home. He wouldn't give the machines to us. We have to break it with an axe and tear it apart. I quit like 5 months later.

Anyway the arcade closed down like 2 years later. Good riddance. Guy was a greedy asshole. So many machines were treated with dishonor. Used and abused.
Anonymous No.12009576
>>12009412
worst.larp.ever